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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 01:09:47 AM

Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 01:09:47 AM
Associated Press report via fox:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85070,00.html

It really is intersting how sincerely some of these staunch anti-war politicans care so deeply for the iraqi people and their safety.. :rolleyes:

I cant think of any way this kind of behavior, treason?,  can be justfied?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 25, 2003, 02:00:44 AM
Galloway pissed Murdoch ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 02:10:14 AM
Nice try straffo, but no good.

Its an ASSOCIATED PRESS report... You lefties cant make excuses for that traitor by saying it was a fox news story.. :p

And how do you dispute the documents found in the iraaqi intelligence headqurters that show payments to this man?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 25, 2003, 02:17:45 AM
I guess the AP report is coming from the Sun article ?

And if I'm leftie your a go-go dancer :p
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 02:18:51 AM
Galloway has always been a retard. This is no surprise. Also, he doesn't represent the whole of the anti-war movement.

Secondly, several businessmen have been playing on his name in Iraq ever since his high profile visit there in '99. We'll see if he wins his libel case - he's won all his others.

So, in summary, he's a bit of a nob but this is old news.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 02:25:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding

So, in summary, he's a bit of a nob but this is old news.


So people allready knoew he was being paid off by Iraq to the tune of $10,000,000? And that he was still on Saddam's payroll right up to the war.. Why was he not kicked out from the government?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 02:27:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
I guess the AP report is coming from the Sun article ?

And if I'm leftie your a go-go dancer :p


Thete is no "Sun" article. You know straffo I dont know why you are trying to make excuses for this traitor, its really shameful of you... But wait, you're French, ahh never mind..

:rolleyes:
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 25, 2003, 02:31:34 AM
A typical gogo dancer answer.



Btw I agree I made an error it was an article from the Telegraph.

You don't find strange how fast such a paper can be found and used  ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Spooky on April 25, 2003, 02:35:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo

And if I'm leftie your a go-go dancer :p


Straffo you communist squeak ! I knew it, driving yaks turned you into a Stalinist !

lol these guys don't have a clue this is funnier every day !
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 02:37:17 AM
And there was a report from the christian science monitor.

I just dont undersstand why you have this bizzare need to defend an obviously corrupt traitor - hell even dowding didnt feel the need to...

It's gotta be because you are french, doesnt it? Your country sure knows how this traitor game works... :)
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 25, 2003, 02:43:12 AM
You got me wrong : I don't want to defend this guy, I never heard of him before yesterday and I don't give a **** of what can happen to a british MP.

But I question the validity of the clue found (a bit conveniently) by a journalist of a newspaper from the other political side (if I'm not mistaken).

and after reading that :
Quote
It's gotta be because you are french, doesnt it? Your country sure knows how this traitor game works...


I've only one answer :


Gogo dancer !!
Gogo dancer !!
Gogo dancer !!
Gogo dancer !!

yada yada ;)

I know it's childish but I'm a child myself (*) :)




(*) otherwise I won't spend so many time playing AH ....
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 03:01:48 AM
"But I question the validity of the clue found (a bit conveniently) by a journalist of a newspaper from the other political side (if I'm not mistaken."

Isnt this why we have a free press?  Or do you only want the official party line.  And these arent mere clues by one paper they are serious documented evedinvce of a long term financial relationship between this British anti-war offiacial and the Iraqi government found by multiple unrelated independant sources... This is scandalous.

Trying to question the sources and painting them as unreliable or liers is defending the guy...

Why?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 25, 2003, 03:08:43 AM
You want an honest answer ?
































To piss you :D
I know I'm a naughty boy :p


Have a bad night now ;)
(It's a morning joke,I'm having my 1st café of the day I'm just warming up)
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 03:09:48 AM
He's not 'in government'. He's a backbench MP and Labour rebel. He's an enemy of Blair.

He's always been a outspoken supporter of Saddam - that's what I meant by old news.

Generally speaking, before a democratically elected member of parliament loses his seat, he has to be found guilty of a crime that would make his position untenable, or at least proven to be involved in a scandal that would have the same effect. I think that's the proper way to proceed. If he's proven guilty of fraud (which is the allegation - via his charity dealings), then fair enough. But until that time, however much I might dislike him, it would be undemocratic to do otherwise.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 03:12:37 AM
Quote
Trying to question the sources and painting them as unreliable or liers is defending the guy...


Don't be ridiculous. Checking the reliability of evidence is a cornerstone of judicial procedure. How else would you want it? Anyone can make a claim and it is automatically believed?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 03:18:03 AM
One thing is trying to veryify sources, its a different matter to just say out of hand the sources are lying. Surely you see that?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 03:22:13 AM
Have I said that? I'm the one asking for judicial process - it's YOU that is asking for the guy to be stripped of his democratically awarded status without any detailed scrutiny of the allegations or the evidence that has been presented to support them.

Instantly holding the sources to be accurate only days after they were discovered is a little premature.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 03:54:09 AM
I did not initally ask that he be removed, hell I dont think I ever asked that he be removed at all.

This is what I said:

"So people allready knoew he was being paid off by Iraq to the tune of $10,000,000? And that he was still on Saddam's payroll right up to the war.. Why was he not kicked out from the government?"

And I only said that after you said this was all common knowledge.


So again my question is, if it is common knowlege that he took this money and if it is proven by these Iraqi documents why should he not be removed from government? Or does anyone think that its ok for a british MP be on payroll of foreign enemy government?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 04:00:04 AM
I didn't say it was common knowledge he was being paid - I was referring to the fact that he is a pro-Saddam campaigner.

If it was proven, then of course he should be stripped of his MP status and criminal charges applied. But I don't see any mention of the conculsion of a criminal trial or even an investigation. Until that time, we have laws and procedure that should be followed.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 04:03:38 AM
Here is more detail, looks like he is getting investigated by the police and this is becoming a scandal.


STORY:

http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2003/0425/p01s04-woiq.html
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Spooky on April 25, 2003, 10:16:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
It's gotta be because you are french, doesnt it? Your country sure knows how this traitor game works... :)


well, every single one of us, no exceptions, was born with traitor's genes, bad hygiene, a beret and a baguette and that ridiculous accent...

it's some sort of curse, really, much like your ability to only see the world in black or white...
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Arfann on April 25, 2003, 10:57:22 AM
What? A politician took money? Next, you'll claim he was qued up begind Dick, Bush, and Colin at the Enron till. (Dick, Bush, and Colin? Hmmm. Somethings stinks in this regime.)
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Rude on April 25, 2003, 11:03:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
Don't be ridiculous. Checking the reliability of evidence is a cornerstone of judicial procedure. How else would you want it? Anyone can make a claim and it is automatically believed?


It is by many democrats and liberals here in the US, especially if directed towards a Republican....it's because democrats and liberals are mostly kids and still have some maturing to do.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Dowding on April 25, 2003, 11:29:28 AM
lol Rude. As if conservatives aren't above that kind of thing.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: ra on April 25, 2003, 11:54:20 AM
Quote
Is lobbying illegal in England? If not this may very well be legal.

Lobbyists are supposed to identify themselves as lobbyists, not work covertly.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Karnak on April 25, 2003, 01:53:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
It is by many democrats and liberals here in the US, especially if directed towards a Republican....it's because democrats and liberals are mostly kids and still have some maturing to do.


Yeah, that's why the hordes of Liberals believed Rush Limbaugh when he said he had proof Clinton was a murderer, and believed that Clinton killed Vince Foster, and believed that Clinton's land deals were intentionally dirty despite the failure of a 50 million dollar investigation to prove such.

Oh wait, those were Conservatives.

:rolleyes:
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: blitz on April 25, 2003, 02:34:01 PM
If this story is true (and it will be most likely) what does it tell us?

Politicians can be corrupt. So what?

Mr. Bush & his Black Gold Team got got several million $$ from the oil industrie to be successful in gettin on the chair :D

And he was.....


Regards Blitz



America was threatened by Iraq in no way, it was just plain rediculous
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 07:20:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Arfann
What? A politician took money?


So by dismmissing these revelations you are styating its ok for politicans to be paid millions of dollars by a foreign enemy government... I'll remember you said that...
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Arfann on April 25, 2003, 08:24:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So by dismmissing these revelations you are styating its ok for politicans to be paid millions of dollars by a foreign enemy government... I'll remember you said that...


OMG, please, please, please, don't remember I said that! I'm running for KING OF THE WORLD AND MASTER OF ALL I SURVEY  next week and it could really keep me from getting all the funds I'll need.

Serially, you should really bone up on reading comprehension. Or drop the Bush/Rush style twist on what folks say.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 25, 2003, 08:32:13 PM
No arfann. You were trying to dismiss this case just as if it were any sort of corporate influence peddling - it is not.

I will just remember that you think its ok that government officials get paid millions of dollars by enemy govermnets during a time a of crisis with their country. I think it speaks volumes about your character.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: 10Bears on April 25, 2003, 08:32:55 PM
looks like shades of Serbian Unity Congress to me..
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Arfann on April 25, 2003, 09:36:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No arfann. You were trying to dismiss this case just as if it were any sort of corporate influence peddling - it is not.

I will just remember that you think its ok that government officials get paid millions of dollars by enemy govermnets during a time a of crisis with their country. I think it speaks volumes about your character.


Dismiss? Hardly. But it's all the same. I think it speaks volumns about your character that you think it's ok for politicos to accept money for favors from big business. Probably what got us into this belligerent illegal war anyway. Big contracts to rebuild what we destroyed, and to rebuild our arsenals.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: 10Bears on April 25, 2003, 11:46:34 PM
Back in ‘99 during Allied Force, there was an lobbying outfit called the Serbian Unitity Congress. Several of their associates were often featured on various talk shows. They openly admit on their web page that they would provide funding to politicians that spoke in favor of Serbia. I thought it was pretty shocking at the time same as Grun is outraged now. When Tom Delay was asked about why he was accepting bribes from these folks, he said that since the US had not declared war on Serbia, these funds were legal.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 01:33:25 AM
I'm not Serbian 10Bears, but I have no doubts that they would do it. I did not hear about this incident in 2000. But can you say the SUC is an official part of the serbian government or merely an open private interest lobbying organization?  Surely if they are just another open lobbying group then you caould see the difference between that and a case where this official is getting paid $10,000,000 by the iraqi government. Even you yhave to admit this something different entirely.

Arfann corporate lobboying is different than taking bribes from a foreign enemy government during a time of crisis. But if you dont think this kind of treason is problematic then thats your issue. It just shows me how your fanatical hatred for the USA is clouding your judgement to where anything that in any way goes counter to  US or slights US interests, like a british govt official being on saddams payrol, is acceptable.

Gscholz the last recorded payment to him was just in January this year, and I'm sure you remember that by this time US and British warplanes were ingaging in daily combat for years with iraqi forcesin the no fly zones.  So yes I think we can say that he was being paid by the irai government during a time of war.  And even if it wasnt war, do you think its acceptable that he was accepting covert multi million dollar payments from a foreign enemy government?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 01:54:36 AM
But there is a difference between open lobbying and secretly getting $10,000,000 from a foreign enemy government during a time of crisis and combat, you gotta admit that..  And its a moot point anyway, he is now being investigated by british police - apparently they think there is something illegal in what he did...

I'm just shocked at what some of the anti-war crowd seems to find acceptable. So  many of them here and elsewhere  cry wildly of nebulus and yet unseen ways they think bush might profit from this war and how this proves he is evil but when solid hard evidence shows up of one of their own ilk profiting to the tune of $10,000,000 directly from saddams government -  all is fine for them, not a peep of outrage or that famous superior moral indegance they have worn so garrishly on their shoulders during our discussions of this war.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Furball on April 26, 2003, 02:46:03 AM
how can anyone diss the sun... when it has page 3! (http://www.page3.com)  mmmm jakki degg
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on April 26, 2003, 05:50:34 AM
Grunherz is not even a real american.
U can see it on his posts everyday he trieing to prove it on the BBS.

Spitting on every non american

With his slavic look people in the US might think he is a moslim.

But here on this BBS he can redirect that attention to other europeans.

Grunherz was never born in the USA

And we all know it

Grunherz is not real that is his problem

just a thought
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 06:43:17 AM
You dont understand america one bit BUG, its not where you are born, its a mindset.. All around the world there are americans, in all countries and continents - and millions find their way home every year and have done so for centuries.

So a big to america, and a big to you...

Now that I'm finished with that, tell me do you have any thoughts about this british politican who took $10,000,000 in bribes from saddam hussein?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Arfann on April 26, 2003, 08:20:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But there is a difference between open lobbying and secretly getting $10,000,000 from a foreign enemy government during a time of crisis and combat, you gotta admit that..  And its a moot point anyway, he is now being investigated by british police - apparently they think there is something illegal in what he did...

I'm just shocked at what some of the anti-war crowd seems to find acceptable. So  many of them here and elsewhere  cry wildly of nebulus and yet unseen ways they think bush might profit from this war and how this proves he is evil but when solid hard evidence shows up of one of their own ilk profiting to the tune of $10,000,000 directly from saddams government -  all is fine for them, not a peep of outrage or that famous superior moral indegance they have worn so garrishly on their shoulders during our discussions of this war.


I know it will seem un-American to not feel the need to butt in  regarding other country's problems, but the Brits will, I'm sure, deal with the situation under their own political and legal system. On the other hand, Dubya and his greedy cohorts are  our problem to be voted out as soon as possible.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 26, 2003, 09:44:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Now that I'm finished with that, tell me do you have any thoughts about this british politican who took $10,000,000 in bribes from saddam hussein?


You pretend he got 10.000.000 $ in his bank account ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 26, 2003, 09:44:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rude
It is by many democrats and liberals here in the US, especially if directed towards a Republican....it's because democrats and liberals are mostly kids and still have some maturing to do.


And a republican loving kids need maturing too or just need to stop being fan of teens bellybutton ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 06:06:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
You pretend he got 10.000.000 $ in his bank account ?


The iraqi documents are pretty clear on how much ne was paid... You pretend they are false?  Let me guess its a lie to discredit this fine british patriot.  Gotta be beacuse you are french, you are all traitors - was your daddy vichy?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 06:07:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Arfann

On the other hand, Dubya and his greedy cohorts are  our problem to be voted out as soon as possible.


If you feel like tyhat you can vote against him next time, thats the cool thing about america. :)
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Thrawn on April 26, 2003, 07:54:12 PM
Grun, he still hasn't been convicted yet.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 26, 2003, 08:12:02 PM
Of course thrawn, I just find the revelations to be shocking and the defensive reaction by some here even more so..
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: Arfann on April 26, 2003, 10:18:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If you feel like tyhat you can vote against him next time, thats the cool thing about america. :)


Glad to see you finally have seen the light. :p
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 27, 2003, 07:10:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
The iraqi documents are pretty clear on how much ne was paid... You pretend they are false?  Let me guess its a lie to discredit this fine british patriot.  Gotta be beacuse you are french, you are all traitors - was your daddy vichy?


Now that I've read that my just hope we will never face or you will swallow your teeth.

Va te faire enculer Grun t'es qu'un gros con.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 27, 2003, 07:28:20 AM
Are you upset because he was? Or beacuse he wasnt?

Va te faire enculer Grun t'es qu'un gros con

Whats this mean?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 27, 2003, 07:32:38 AM
How will you react if I ask your mother to suck a serb D* ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 27, 2003, 07:42:25 AM
I donno straffo, my parents are divorced and have no real hatred of serbs, even with the war..

But hey look I dont know your family history so if we went too far with that vichy/gogo dancer line of jokes/insults and your feelings got hurt then thats not what I wanted - I apologize if thats what happend.
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 27, 2003, 07:49:09 AM
I over reacted too sorry :(

I'll shot you a mail to explain why the Vichy reference as a such big effect on me.

In short : during last war some of my familly have chosen Vichy and some the Résistance guess what happened ...
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 27, 2003, 07:52:16 AM
sure:

pirci@bayarea.net
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 29, 2003, 03:08:43 AM
did you got my mail ?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 29, 2003, 03:17:20 AM
yes i got the first one you sent, are there others?
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: straffo on April 29, 2003, 03:40:59 AM
I've sent a second yesterday ...
but you know in third world country not all work as advertised :p (I'll repost it later)
Title: Western anti-war politicaians on Saddam's payroll...
Post by: GRUNHERZ on April 29, 2003, 03:47:47 AM
Ahh thanks, yes france isnt very good at anything - except laetita casta... :D