Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kweassa on April 25, 2003, 06:07:55 AM
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A lot of people are expecting some changes or improvements in GVs. Personally, I have mixed expectations concerning especially how the GVs fare against air-to-ground attacks.
Now, the recent changes - despite complaints on tank vs tank 'weird incidents' - were very satisfactory IMO.
I do not have any statistics to back me up, but empirically, I can really notice that the main stay of GVs in ground attack roles have shifted heavily to Panzers and Tigers(as it should!!). In the versions before the changes to GV DM, we all remember how Panzers were utterly useless.
But recently, I can really say that the ground war element has been improved a lot. There are lots more opportunities for a plane like IL-2 now, especially in the Trinity terrain. Advancing columns of armour consisting of multiple Panzers, when not dealt properly in the early stages, has devastating effect on a field. Now, GVs are an alternate option for capture with power to be reckoned with. Kudos to HTC for bringing such changes!
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However, there is some room for improvement, and with some humble suggestions, I request for a couple of more planes solely 'specialized' for the anti-GV role, which might add some more interesting variety to the ground war.
Overall, I am wondering if it would be possible to somehow 'tone' the GV DM and 'shape' it somehow.
The probability went down a lot with the recent changes, but people are still reporting Panzers and Tigers being disabled by .50 or 20mm fire. Some people even go as far as to say "the N1K2s or Typhies with 4x20mms are the best planes to kill Panzers or Tigers".
On the other hand, in many occasions, specifically related with Tigers, it someties seems that no amount of bombs can adequately knock out a Tiger - even well placed ones!
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Therefore, I'm sort of imagining a DM which is more sturdy against A2G fire, but a bit more 'flexible' towards bomb drops.
In addition(as the suggested changes might strengthen the GVs even more(since not many people can accurately drop bombs right on top of tanks)), I'd like to suggest the introduction of some interesting A2G anti-tank gun platform which were solely specialized for the task. The Hs129 with either the 37mms or even the 75mms would be a great addition IMO. Also, the Ju87G with the 37mm guns are a welcome addition, too.
Also, I'd like to add that the VickerS 40mm cannons on the Hurricane 2D needs to be fixed, as its guns did not fire in alternate sequence as it is now in AH.
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Now, some people might be skeptical in the sense that 'since any dufus can up a Hs129 or a Ju87G and practically auger into a tank with guns blazing, nothing's really changed'. However, IMO, at least they aren't doing that with a N1K2 or a Typhoon. At least those two planes are in no way a fighter, almost too vulnerable without local air superiorty/protection, and are slow aircraft which makes them prone to getting shotdown by the powerful Ostie guns.
Meaning: at least if one has to take up a Hs129 or a Ju87G, he's using a very vulnerable plane which was specialized for the task, and will have to face the dangers as it was. He ain't just gonna be able to up a Typh and strafe something to disable it, and then go fighting instantly against a con nearby.
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Also, if powerful anti-tank planes such as Hs129 and Ju87G are introduced, it might stimulate the GV drivers into natural organization. AA vehicles aren't supposed to barge into towns alone. They accompanied heavy armour with a specific purpose to protect them.
As it is, currently I see many people making such tactical mistakes - where Panzers or Tigers are left undefended, and Osties just barge into the field themselves. Ofcourse, such mistakes are always welcome for an IL-2 lover like me, :) since that is the best situation the defenders can dream of. While friendly tanks wait in the edges of the field, IL-2 knock out enemy tanks which are undefended, and then, friendly tanks take care of Ostwinds easily... However, no harm done when things become more challenging. Faced against powerful anti-tank attack planes, maybe the tank drivers will request the flak drivers to stay close to them and protect them... :) and who knows.. maybe organization will come naturally, without anybody having to order another guy around! :D
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Originally posted by Kweassa
On the other hand, in many occasions, specifically related with Tigers, it someties seems that no amount of bombs can adequately knock out a Tiger - even well placed ones! ...
Try a ju88 with 20 50kg bombs loaded, .salvo 20 .delay 0.15, and a good approuch and timing, formations work better.
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The Hs129 would be more useless than the Il-2 (and I like the Il-2) and the Ju87G would suffer the same fate as the Hurricane Mk IId. Neither of those aircraft would be used in preference over the Tiffie or George-21.
The aircraft that might be used in preference would be the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII with the 57mm Mollins 6pdr in the nose and Me410A-1/U-4 with the 50mm BK 5 cannon in the nose. Both these aircraft would be fast enough to possibly be seen as usable by "Joe Average Player", something that neither the Hs129 or Ju87G would be.
It would also be nice to have the two 37mm NS-37 cannon (the same gun as is carried by the Yak-9T) as an option for our Il-2 3M as some of our particular Il-2s carried them.
I'd still like to see the Ju87G, but I don't think the Hs129 should be a high priority given the fact that it is a completely new airframe.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The aircraft that might be used in preference would be the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII with the 57mm Mollins 6pdr in the nose
I don't think it was used in active duty, and it was an anti-shipping weapon.
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Originally posted by BenDover
I don't think it was used in active duty, and it was an anti-shipping weapon.
It was initally intended as an anti-tank weapon, but then turned over for use against shipping without ever being used agaist tanks. In AH it would be freely used for whatever the player wanted to use it for.
It most certainly saw active use. I know of multiple missions flown against freighters and U-Boats by Mk XVIIIs and at least one probable air-to-air kill of a Ju88 fighter using the 57mm cannon. On the night of Febuary 23/24 1944 Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII VY-O of 85 Squadron claimed a Ju88 as a probable kill after blowing one of its engines completely off with two rounds from its 57mm Mollins cannon.
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i must be thinking of another plane-mounted cannon, think it was the ju88.
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Originally posted by Karnak
The Hs129 would be more useless than the Il-2 (and I like the Il-2) and the Ju87G would suffer the same fate as the Hurricane Mk IId. Neither of those aircraft would be used in preference over the Tiffie or George-21.
The IL-2 isnt useless, I'm seeing quite a few IL-2 sorties lately, and been using it myself to fairly good success.
Kweassa also suggested that HTC makes GVs more resistant to MG fire but Tigers more vulnerable to bombs. (I have no problem getting killed by bombs in Tigers currently, though..)
This (should) make anti-tankers need to take something other than a 50.cal or 20mm-equipped fighter, making the new planes... un-useless.
With AH2 it's said making new aircraft should be 2-4 (can't remember exactly) times easier and be finished more quickly as well, so a new airframe would be more feasable, and for most of us I'm sure, welcome.
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The Il2 is far from useless, it even functions well as an emergency fighter with all theses newbies around. I think a Ju87G with the big 37mm would be the best #1 tiger killer, some ammo loads on that gun could penetrate over 100mm of armor.
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Hs129 is a beauty!
(http://www.btinternet.com/~nexx/Hs129.jpg)
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why's there a lamp post sticking out of it?
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Originally posted by BenDover
why's there a lamp post sticking out of it?
That is the 75mm cannon ya dolt.;)
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That was sarcasm ya dolt ;)