Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: hawk220 on April 26, 2003, 11:51:35 PM
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I'd like to hear from the military guys on this one, Marines especially.
Marine Discusses Execution-Style Killing
Apr 26, 7:46 PM (ET)
LAS VEGAS (AP) - Military officials are investigating a Marine who says he shot an Iraqi soldier twice in the back of the head following a grenade attack on his comrades.
The Marine Forces Reserve announced the preliminary inquiry of Gunnery Sgt. Gus Covarrubias on Friday, the day the Las Vegas Review-Journal published an interview in which he described the killing.
Covarrubias, 38, of Las Vegas, said that during an intense battle in Baghdad on April 8, he pursued a member of the Iraqi Republican Guard who fired a rocket-propelled grenade at his unit. Covarrubias said he received a concussion in the attack and several other Marines also were injured.
Covarrubias, a 20-year Marine veteran, said he found the soldier inside a nearby home with the grenade launcher by his side. Covarrubias said he ordered the man to stop and forced him to turn around.
"I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head. Twice," Covarrubias told the Review-Journal.
He said he also shot the man's partner, who tried to escape. He showed what he said were the men's ID cards.
"I'm not vindictive, and I might get in trouble for telling you this, but I take it very personally when you do that to my family," Covarrubias said. "The Marines are my family."
The Marine Forces Reserve said the preliminary inquiry by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service will determine whether Covarrubias "met the established rules of engagement and complied with the law of war," and whether a formal investigation is warranted.
Calls to Covarrubias' home and knocks at the door went unanswered Friday.
Marine reservist Sgt. Michael Dunn, who fought alongside Covarrubias and was injured in the battle, said he stands by him "100 percent."
"If he wouldn't have done it, those guys probably would've come back and killed or severely injured other Marines," Dunn said. "He did the right thing."
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sorry hawk , but war is about killing people and breaking things, if you don't want to die then don't mess with marines, we marines are trigger happy gun toten cowboys who's only "rule of war" is to win.
you really need to tell the UN about this outrage, they can deal with it in the proper way.
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Didn't sound like he was berating the marine from the title, John. But as for me ... I gotta admit ... I was taken aback. Granted, I'm not in his combat boots nor have I ever been in ground combat but I think he made two mistakes.
*ShruG*
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He should have kept his mouth shut. I think military justice system is going to have no choice but to take a big dump on him now.
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Originally posted by funkedup
He should have kept his mouth shut. I think military justice system is going to have no choice but to take a big dump on him now.
That's the second mistake I was refering to.
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Watch how some people begin using this isolated incident to advance their larger anti-american causes...
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grunhutz is an idiot
Imagine what he would be saying if it was an iraqi executing a us soldier
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That he got orders to do it from his murderous regime?
Thx for the insult BTW...
Pongo are you upset I cut you off before you could post just such an attack based on this case? Thats how your post comes off..
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Well whats anti american have to do with it. All you are doing is marginalizing any opinion on the subject that is contrary to yours.
Thats an idiotic thing to do.
As to the marine.
They should have him assessed. To cap some guy that amushed you is one thing. To talk about it to the papers rings of Post traumatic stress syndrome.
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He should have kept his mouth shut. I think military justice system is going to have no choice but to take a big dump on him now.
yup, I'm sure that there are lots of times this kind of thing happens in battle and the vast majority never get publicized.
I've never been in combat so I have no idea what was going thru his mind.
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Pongo:
All I was saying is that I fear that some people who have genuine anti-american feeelings and have expressed them before will likely use this case to say, again, the war in iraq is evil and how us troops are evil butchers.
I dont think the guy should have done that, thats not what I want our troops to be doing in such a case. However if anyone tries to make more out of this than there is in some attempt to bash the usa then they can go to hell.
I think thats a fair and reasonable statement for the most part.
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Agreed.
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WTG Marine..........carry on.
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Hard to judge. The Iraqi was just doing his duty, as was the Marine. But no use in prosecuting the Marine, wont bring back the Iraqis.
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Does that mean we shouldn't prosecute serial murderers too?
My feelings are summed up by Arlo. Guy screwed up, twice. Shooting the Iraqi I can understand, but blabbing about it? Very dumb.
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not everything you do needs to be talked about. somewhere they forgot to tell him how to STFU.
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There are times when, sick as it is, it is necessary to exectute or disable a prisoner. It's hard to tell about that article, since you don't really have all the facts. Inferring what you can, though, that person has no place in the military.
A team's completion of a mission and survivability largely include rational thought. That also includes NOT doing things your are emotionally driven to do. The execution of a prisoner, unless it is necessarry for mission completion, tells you a few things about the soldier. He is either controlled by emotion, doesn't understand the value of human life, or is a psychopath. Today's wars are about public opinion as much as they are about killing the enemy. A favorable outcome to the war, publicly and militarily, as well as the safety of your team, rely on someone that follows orders without thinking, keeps his head, and respects every life he takes.
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Remember when the news broke showing the Coalition POWS, and the bodies of killed allied soldiers, there was the promise of a hunt for the Iraqi killers if any allied soldiers were executed..hows this case suddenly different to that?
If he's dumb enough to tell people about it, hes dumb enough to pay the price.
Tronsky
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Sounds more like:
He found someone he thought fired the Grenade and executed him. Someone saw him and filed a complaint.
He´s trying to do his best to get out of the jam he´s in.
Or he´s the most stupid guy Soldier I ever heard of.
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Originally posted by hawk220
Covarrubias said he ordered the man to stop and forced him to turn around.
I'm not entirely sure that this Iraqi soldier has reached POW-status at this point. Especially not when you consider the fact that there were other Iraqis nearby, and the Marine was pretty alone.
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I don't think that he should have shot the Iraqi. If safe and possible, it would have been better to take him prisinor. However, I'm saying this while sitting in my livingroom, have not been shot at in the past 15 munutes, and was not forced to make such a decicion as this Marine made. Perhaps the Marine feared that he couldn't control these guys and watch his back in hostile territory at the same time.... Either way, who am I to judge?
eskimo
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If this is true, could you blame him?
Yes.
You don't execute soldiers that surrender. Its immoral and stupid. All it does is make future enemies more likely to fight to the death rather than surrender to be executed. It will also make the treatment of any American POW's that more harsh.
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So when in WW2 the SS executed allied soldiers it was a war crime but now when a Marine does the same it's just a sorry incident and guy should walk away without any punishment?
Yeah that makes sense :)
Anyway my guess is we haven't heard the whole story but when a guy says "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head. Twice." it's pretty clear that it was nothing but an execution.
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Originally posted by Martlet
, tells you a few things about the soldier. He is either controlled by emotion, doesn't understand the value of human life, or is a psychopath.
The guy who did it is no better than saddam himself.
He had a high enuff moral superiority to become jury, judge and executioner. That changed him form a soldier to a murderer.
Court martials will follow.
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Originally posted by Staga
So when in WW2 the SS executed allied soldiers it was a war crime but now when a Marine does the same it's just a sorry incident and guy should walk away without any punishment?
Yeah that makes sense :)
Anyway my guess is we haven't heard the whole story but when a guy says "I went behind him and shot him in the back of the head. Twice." it's pretty clear that it was nothing but an execution.
LoL Stagameister. I have never seen a better example on this board of someone completely ignoring practically everything said in a thread and taking what they see as a prime opportunity to take a dump in it. ;)
Good show! :D
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Bragging about this was not very smart.
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yes and no
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Originally posted by Lance
You don't execute soldiers that surrender.
are you forgeting the iraqis who "surrendered" under a white flag, then pulled out guns and opened fire on US troops?
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are you forgeting the iraqis who "surrendered" under a white flag, then pulled out guns and opened fire on US troops?
You saying its ok to do it because the Irakis did it? or what are you saying?
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Originally posted by john9001
are you forgeting the iraqis who "surrendered" under a white flag, then pulled out guns and opened fire on US troops?
No. But that isn't the same thing, is it? When the enemy surrenders and complies then he is no longer a combatant. Using a white flag as a ruse to lure Coalition soldiers into the open thereby making them easier targets isn't even close.
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What an idiot shoulda just shot him in the first place when he still had the friggen RPG. Then should kept his dumb mouth shut.
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lots of things in this story set off bull**** detector. ill bet whole story made up by marine and it was picked up by some reporter as news.