Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on April 27, 2003, 01:56:38 AM
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OK pistol nuts give me your opinion of this caliber. I have the hots for one of those plastic Sigs. :)
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357 has nice ballistics, a nice round.
I prefer .45... but not saying it's better. Kimber makes some truly excellent .45's.. have a couple.
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Get the .45 and forget about it :)
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Guys I mean the .357 Sig round not the .357 magnum.
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You'll shoot your eye out kid.
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Get a Man's gun, .45 acp. Yeah they're big, and the rounds are expensive, BUT what you hit, hits the ground.
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.357Sig is like .38Super
A playtoy.
If ya really want a Sig look for ones chambered for .40S&W or .45ACP
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.357 sig has good balistics. The slug is a little light... Unlike a revolver the sig round is limited in bullet shape and ballistics.
The sig round is 'necked down'... this is great for feeding but terrible to reload.. ammo is expensive. most necked down pistol rounds have jamming problems.. the chamber has to be very clean. To be fair.. the sig I shot didn't jam once. recoil was light.. about like the .45 but the sound was very sharp.
The sig I shot wasn't particularly accurate in my hands or the owners.
In short... I would rather have a titanium conventional .357 revolver. I have grown fond of the .40 and .45 in autos... both are nice little rounds.
lazs
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People here get hard-ons for the .45 ACP
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If you feel that the only use you will ever have for a handgun is in your work as a special forces member or big city cop then you have a right to get a woody over the .45... it will knock em down the way it's supossed to. Nothing else works as well.
Magnum revolvers do a better job but aren't as effiecient and are much more difficult to learn.
If you use firearms for a variety of things then you can't beat a good revolver in .357 or .44 mag.
lazs
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My uncle who was at Okiniwa couldn't say enough good abou the 45 ACP. He stated that under most circumstances, the projectile wouldn't pass through a human, which is a good thing in combat. All of the energy from the round is absorbed in the flesh of the target and its going to knock them down. That is real stopping power. He also shared an illistration which I hesitate to repeat here.
The 357 SIG, I don't have any experience with it, but from what I have read it is a souped up 9mm Luger, and only slightly moreso. The Sig Sauer handguns are known for their superb reliablility and functionality. If it was me, buy a Sig and have fun! Whatever cal you buy, you are probably not going be disappointed during your range time.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
.357Sig is like .38Super
A playtoy.
If ya really want a Sig look for ones chambered for .40S&W or .45ACP
.357Sig is a play toy? Humph, what rock have you been living under. The .357 sig has excellent balstics, its low recoil, high engergy blow the .45 and .40S&W away. Keep in mind you need a bullet that is easy to control, so that you have good shot placement, as well as good pentration. The .357 Sig offers both of these.
Off duty I carry a Glock 33 in .357 sig, I own all three that Glock makes 31, 32, and 33, but for concealed carry the G33 is the way to go. You have to take alot of things into account when your selecting a round for home defence or CCW. You first need to fully understand Terminal Ballistics. I have studied this for years now, and I still am learning things about this.
Our atmosphere is approximately 400 times less dense than a humans soft tissue. So while some ballistic data looks good on paper how it truly holds up is what is important. The .45 Bullet is great man stoper. However there are bullets out there, that are far better choices than just a .45. The .357Sig is one of those rounds. I would go to a range and shoot the .357Sig round. I mean really shoot it. Fire about a 1,000 rnds or so out of one. Just to get a better feel for it. If after a 1,000 rnds your shot placement is good, then it might be something to look at. This is the same for any round you select. Shot placement is key. In the right hands a .22LR is deadly. http://www.glock.com/_357.htm (http://www.glock.com/_357.htm)
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BBBB, for a person who wants to get into guns with a Glock, which one would you recomend more, a Glock 23 or a Glock 33, all things considered?
The 33 seems attractive for concealment.
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Guys, Funked didn't ask about the .45, I'm sure he knows and has read about all its virtues.
I'm a .45 shooter myself, but the .357 SIG has a lot to like.
Also being a SIG distributor, I'm somewhat biased. The Air Marshalls, and the USSS are 2 good examples of units using the .357 Sig.
The major advantage of course with this round is velocity. A 124 Grain bullet will be going warp speed, in the 1400++ range. This round (well, the 125 in the .357 Magnum) is by far the best performer for stopping naughty people according to multiple agencies statistics. The SIG round replicates this in an auto is all.
Not only does the 357 sig perform well against soft targets, the added velocity also gives you an advantage against perps wearing body armour, depending on the bullet type and the load behind it. Speer Gold Dot ammo is probably your best bet.
I won't drone on and bore everyone, just check out some of the information on the 357 sig sites out there. All I can say from personal experience is that it's very loud, the recoil is a bit sharper than a typical 40 round, but less than a full up .357 magnum round from a revolver. Muzzle flip is a bit more pronounced, but Funked is a big guy, shouldn't be an issue with proper stance and grip anyhow.
The bellow is an excellent resource.
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/#Main
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Funked is a big guy... but he has limp wrists.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If you use firearms for a variety of things then you can't beat a good revolver in .357 or .44 mag.
lazs
Help me out here...what are the "variety of things" that handguns are used for?
Protection or target shooting are the only two possible uses I can think of.
I mean, I suppose you could use them for removing beer caps at 15 meters...but I just use a bottle opener. It's much easier and you don't risk losing your beer in a shower of glass.
Wait...bank robberies could be another use...extortion possibly...taking down one's drug dealing competition, I guess so...is this the "variety" to which you refer?
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You can hunt with handguns too. Varmint, game, whatever. That, basically, means there is a variety of things you can do with them. Something like a 9mm (or most autos) is going to be pretty useless in most of those aplications. A .357 or .44 revolver is definately more versatile.
MiniD
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Ah, okay Mini D thanks for clearing that up for me.;)
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I carried both the .45 and .40 cal glocks at various times as duty weapons...
The .40 cal has basically the same ballistics as a .357 magnum and is a great round. The .45 is a great round also but lacks the penetrating power of the .40 or .357
Cor-Bon makes a nice hopped up round for the .40 cal also which travels at about 1350 fps.
Not to be gory here, but I've witnessed a few shootings where the .45 failed to stop the suspect immediately, and the .40 was pretty much a one shot drop.
Of course a well placed shot from just about any weapon will stop someone in their tracks, you don't always have the time to take careful aim, and rely on the stopping power of the round.
My vote is for the .40 cal
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ooooooo .357 Sig!
Get it!!! Next time I am in your neighborhood I will bring my
Glock and we can play with each others' firearms.
Shooting incident data would indicate that the round is very lethal (very similar to .40 SW). This round is very close in dimenstions to a .40 SW that has been necked down. My understanding is that some pistols have occasional feed problems because they were originally designed as .40 SW and the .357 Sig conversion was not done optimally. If you are talking about and actual Sig pistol chambered in Sig .357 I would really not expect this to be a problem. Also if you buy a Sig pistol, you should be able to buy a Sig barrel to convert it to a .40, so you can have a pistol which can be either a .357 or .40. Think of how handy this could be!! (Remember to the pick up your casings and dispose of the incriminating barrel!)
If you really care about bullet lethality, then I strongly suggest you read "Handgun stopping power" and "Street Stoppers" by Marshall and Sanow. This work is the only sensible stuff on pistol lethality that I have seen.
Hooligan
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Help me out here...what are the "variety of things" that handguns are used for?
Well you can pistol whip somebody with a little plastic automatic, but you really are better off using a big revolver for that particular task...
Hooligan
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Help me out here...what are the "variety of things" that handguns are used for?
I saw a Mcguyver episode where he took the cylinder off a revolver, and used the squared shaped frame to turn on a fire hydrant and shoot the bad guys with a spray of water.
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Originally posted by Animal
BBBB, for a person who wants to get into guns with a Glock, which one would you recomend more, a Glock 23 or a Glock 33, all things considered?
The 33 seems attractive for concealment.
Well the 23 is the compact .40. It is a nice pistol. Really I prefer the compacts over the full sized Glocks. Mostly for there all around abiltys, there not hard to conceal, and at the same time there isnt really any loss in accracy with the compact models vs the full size ones. Really a subcompact glock can be a handfull for some ppl. So I would go with a full size, or compact model first, before I started playing with the smaller frames.
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Thanks all. I knew with all the gun nuts around here I'd get some good answers. More efficient than actually doing the research myself. :)
I'm pretty much broke until the end of summer, so it's academic. But I need to get a pistol so I don't feel like a third wheel hanging out with Lazs and Hooligan. My car is better than theirs though. :p
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curval.. np.. we can take a trunk load of pistols and revolvers out to the range and you can see that the semi autos are all allmost as good as the revolvers at the 12 yard line and even at the 25 yard line... when we get to the 50 yard line the light will start to go on.... going to the 100 yard line will make things very apparent..
Shooting at targets in the desert at unknown ranges and shooting ground squirrels at 20-100 yards makes things a little clearer... a wild boar hunt or black bear hunt make it crystal.
The 357 sig is a great round... loud and not particularly accurate (compared to a revolver) but with good ballistics and stopping power... hard to reload for and expensive to buy.... but I allready said all that.
Oh and funked.... I really am sorry for asking you to "get on it" when we were in your car.... if I had know you allready had the pedal to the metal for 10 seconds I would have been more polite.... honest mistake.
lazs
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Oh... and a good pistol whipping is a pretty fair deterent to further aggressivnes even tho it sometimes bends the front sight.
If you smack em with one of those plastic things they just go "ow... stop that... you could hurt someone if you're not careful!"
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
curval.. np.. we can take a trunk load of pistols and revolvers out to the range and you can see that the semi autos are all allmost as good as the revolvers at the 12 yard line and even at the 25 yard line... when we get to the 50 yard line the light will start to go on.... going to the 100 yard line will make things very apparent..
Lazs..you going to the Con this year? If so, I'll take you up on that.
The only thing is..based upon my last performance we won't need to go much past the 12 yard line. Maybe you can give me some instruction?
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh and funked.... I really am sorry for asking you to "get on it" when we were in your car.... if I had know you allready had the pedal to the metal for 10 seconds I would have been more polite.... honest mistake.
lazs
Never hesitate to ask funked to "get on it". Its your loss if you do.
MiniD