Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Furball on April 27, 2003, 09:53:43 AM
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I was playing the new championship manager (http://www.sigames.com) and thought i would give the USA league a try....
never again!
Can someone explain the stupid rules of the league to me? why are the teams limited by 'Discovery Players' whatever the hell they are, 'Senior Internationals', Max Squad size of 24 players, maximum of 18 players over the age of 23 and max weekly team salary?
No wonder soccer has no interest in the USA with rules like these.
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I'm not really into MLS, but could these rules just be there to try and represent the kind of roster you see in the U.S.? (Not necessarily the rules they go by, but what they ended up with.)
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i'm having fun with CM4.:) Currently in my first season with Plymouth Argyle in the 2nd division. With 6 games to go i'm 5th and only 4 points from 2nd (Crewe) to get an automatic promotion....oooo it's tense stuff at the moment. Only worrying thing is that in the last 3 games i got 8 injuries:eek: my team is a shambles, i don't think i'm likely to win any more games for season. i'm hoping to try and keep in promotion playoff zone but i wouldn't like to put a bet on it.:(
Doesn't MLS also not do draws? i'm sure i heard somewhere that they have a weird penalty shootout except it's not regular ones they get to run up to the goal.
Who are you managing now furball?
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Arsenal :D im a big arsenal supporter, doing great!
Plymoth Argyle? lmao! you must enjoy pain! :)
As for the MLS rules, i didnt play one game. I tried signing Stephen Hughes (ex arsenal) on a free transfer and apparently he's a full international so i cant sign him. Even tho he has never played for England!
Hows this for a team?! im in 3rd season, won the premiership once, Champions league once, FA cup twice. :D
(http://www.geocities.com/rcafhornet/arsenal.txt)
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Is MLS still around? Thought they went belly up years ago.
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Originally posted by Furball
Arsenal :D im a big arsenal supporter, doing great!
Plymoth Argyle? lmao! you must enjoy pain! :)
As for the MLS rules, i didnt play one game. I tried signing Stephen Hughes (ex arsenal) on a free transfer and apparently he's a full international so i cant sign him. Even tho he has never played for England!
Hows this for a team?! im in 3rd season, won the premiership once, Champions league once, FA cup twice. :D
(http://www.geocities.com/rcafhornet/arsenal.txt)
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Man U 2 - Spurs 0
:D Glory glory man united.....glory glory man united....
Can you play premier league in the Demo, or do you have to buy?
Tronsky
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Other than being one of the most boring sports on the planet, I don't know what people see in soccer.
Games are like 15 hours long with little or no scoring.
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US and Soccer ?
Come on Furball u should know better :)
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Originally posted by NUKE
Other than being one of the most boring sports on the planet, I don't know what people see in soccer.
Games are like 15 hours long with little or no scoring.
There is nothing more boring then Baseball. Baseball is a pain in the arse. I cant really see why people getting paid millions of millions of $ to stay around and catch a ball every 30 minutes or so average.
And btw i never seen 15 hour long soccer match.
Or did the MSL stretch the game time to fit in the profile of the average Baseball fan :)
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Boring compared to what? American 'Football'? LMAO!
Nifty is our man in America - he's really into his footy, and will fill us in on MLS.
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The MLS got rid of the shootout, thank God. Now we have draws.
http://www.mlsnet.com/about/regulations/
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I see a 100 post "Football vs Football" post coming! Maybe I should start that NRA thread I was thinking about earlier? :D
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Originally posted by NUKE
Other than being one of the most boring sports on the planet, I don't know what people see in soccer.
Games are like 15 hours long with little or no scoring.
Depends on what team you are watching. If you watch football from the top european leagues or south american leages its very exciting.
The games are 90 minutes long, and its all action instead of your stop/start american football bs.
As for rarely scoring, the team i support have gone something like 80 games without a 0-0 draw, which is like 2 years.
As for the demo im not sure. The old CM demo you could only play for one season. here (http://www.sigames.com/downloads_view.php?id=303) is the link for the demo.
I was brought up loving soccer. My dads side of the family is from Avenell Road in London (virtually within spitting distance of Highbury - Arsenal's ground) and he played football for Watford, so i kinda got brainwashed into liking it :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I see a 100 post "Football vs Football" post coming! Maybe I should start that NRA thread I was thinking about earlier? :D
You cant really compare american 'Football' (jump on the floor/throwball) to the rest of the worlds Football.
Its rugby you need to compare it to (which was created at Rugby University in England when someone picked the ball up in a football match and decided to run with it, while everyone else tried to stop him!) and you know american throwball/jump on the floorball doesnt even come close to rugby.
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Some of us support teams that are not successful instead of hitching a ride with the latest band-wagon, furball. It sounds like you're a repressed Watford fan. :D
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I do like watford! i live in St.Albans which is about 10 mins drive away, so i do kinda support them :D
Arsenals training ground is nearer to me than watford is tho, so they are my local team!
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Thanks for pointing the thread out, furball! I missed it yesterday. Also, your animated gif is the longest one I've ever seen, yet quite humorous! :)
thx for the support, dowding. I'm that weird American that actually takes soccer seriously (sorry, but an american saying "footy" is just wrong! It's like me saying "kit" or "boot" ;) wait, I do say those from time to time...) :D
Ok, explaining MLS...
First thing you need to know about MLS is that the league itself owns all the contracts of all the players. It's not like Europe where the individual teams handle all aspects of player contracts. The teams here pick the players (in a variety of ways) and the monetary issues are handled by the league. Each team also has a salary cap that they can spend on players. This cap exists because, again, MLS owns all the contracts and they know what they can "afford to spend" on player salaries while not losing too much money. That's where your manager game is coming up with the weekly salary thing. Also, that's why if you ever see talk about real life transfers between other leagues and MLS the negotations take place between MLS and the individual team in the other league. Recent example is McBride playing on loan for Everton. Everton paid MLS (not Columbus) for McBride's services. Everton inquired about a full transfer, but MLS' price for McBride was more than Everton wanted to pay for a 30+ year old striker.
Yes, MLS has ties now. However, it's after 10 minutes of "golden goal" time. The points system works like other leagues. 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss (regardless if in regulation or overtime.)
The link Mickey posted explains the senior internationals, transitional internationals and the other player classifications. This shouldn't be a surprise to Euro fans. I believe most European leagues used to limit the amount of foreigners dressed on their teams. In fact I believe they still do, however, with the European Union and the blurring of nationalities in relation to business I believe all Euro citizens don't count against the limit of foreigners. I do know it used to exist, because Americans weren't highly sought after players, and they ended up not being dressed for most games. This was in Germany for sure awhile back, it might not be the case anymore. *shrugs* Regardless, the point for this was that the majority of the players in MLS were to be American citizens. A couple of years ago, due to American business laws, green card holders no longer counted against the senior international limit. An example off the top of my head last year was Carlos Valderrama. He obviously is Columbian and not a dual citizen, yet he did not count against Colorado's senior international limit. Anyways, like I said the point here to have mostly Americans on the field during games (and as stated, other leagues used to do this as well.) I guess they don't want the Real Madrid syndrome where a lot of the starters aren't Spanish (or Man U where a lot of 'em aren't English.) Also, I was really to young to know about our NASL years ago, but I think that had a lot of foreigners, and they wanted to avoid that again. They do realize we need some foreigners, so that's why each team can have 3 senior internationals. It's really helped out the US National Team because we're finding more players and giving them some decent competition (tho obviously they get much better playing in Europe.)
I think that explains the major differences in MLS. Oh, and the silly substitution rule. They have the 3 subs like everywhere else, but we can also sub the keeper in addition to the 3 subs. What this means is if you burn up your 3 subs and a field player gets hurt, you can have your current keeper swap positions with him, and then have your reserve keeper come on for the new, yet injured, keeper. Funny thing is this happened the past week. Josh Wolff pulled a hamstring (as usual) for Kansas City after all 3 positional subs were used. The keeper, Tony Meola (yeah, you Euros might know of him, he was our keeper back in the 90 and 94 world cups, and our 3rd keeper in the 98 and 02 cups) ran off to get a field players shirt, and the reserve keeper came on the field. KC still lost the game and Meola contributed nothing up front, but at least they had 11 on the field. I think the rule sucks, and they should just have 3 subs, and not a keeper sub in addition to it.
ALSO, we have "playoffs" to determine the champion of MLS. The teams play however many games there are in the season and the top 8 teams make the playoffs (yeah, only 2 teams don't get to participate.) Then it's some weird best 2 out of 3 format until you have two teams left, then it's a one game championship. (kinda like final round of Champ's League play but instead of the home/away format, it's home/away/"home if necessary" format! I'll explain this further if you want.)
Any more questions about our silly league? ;) Yeah, I think the rules are weird, but sometimes the games are pretty entertaining. The quality of play continues to improve, and I'd say the better MLS teams could compete for promotion in say the English First Division, but would definitely be relegated in any top flight of the big 4 (England, Spain, Germany and Italy.)
As for my MLS allegiance? lol, I don't have one. I supported Tampa, but they were disbanded when MLS went from 12 teams back to 10. I just watch who's ever on and pick a team to pull for. :) As for foreign allegiance? :) Newcastle United all the way! I picked them solely because when I started really following the English game (meaning when we finally started getting a game of the week to watch) they were sponsored by Newcastle Brown Ale, which is my favorite beer! ;) I have two "kits," a 1996 short sleeve and the 1999 long sleeve (last one with the Brown Ale sponsor.) :(
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nice team Furball :) How did you get Dudek from Liverpool ? :)
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Originally posted by fd ski
nice team Furball :) How did you get Dudek from Liverpool ? :)
heh, forget that, how'd he manage to afford the transfers of both Raul and Ronaldo from Real Madrid!!! :eek:
and speaking of football games, do any of you play the FIFA series or the game from Konami (Winning Eleven International in the states, I think it's called Pro Soccer Evolution in the UK and Europe)???
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Originally posted by Nifty
heh, forget that, how'd he manage to afford the transfers of both Raul and Ronaldo from Real Madrid!!! :eek:
and speaking of football games, do any of you play the FIFA series or the game from Konami (Winning Eleven International in the states, I think it's called Pro Soccer Evolution in the UK and Europe)???
Well, dudek was transfer listed in the second season (chris kirkland stole his place)
I could afford Ronaldo (£20m - start of 2nd season, you can get him cheaper than 20) because i had so much prize money and selling a lot of useless players like Kanu, Cygan, no-leg Luzhny and Lurch... i mean Stepanovs.
I managed to get Raśl at the start of my 3rd season for a bargain £10m, Real madrid finished 6th in the league and all their players were unhappy, and somehow they were in debt (probably wagebill + not winning anything)
I have sold a few original arsenal players to afford Zanetti, Cannavaro and Thuram. Freddie went to Inter as p/x for Zanetti, Gio Van Bronckhorst went to liverpool, Gilberto to Barcelona, Bergkamp to Ajax.
And Nifty MLS is ruined by those rules, now i understand why the majority of americans hate footy.
If you dont have this game nifty - you should get it!
thankyou for clearing up the rules for me btw!
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"I'm going to tell you the truth. Soccer was created by young European women to give them something to do while their husbands cooked dinner."
-Hank Hill
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Thanks for the post Nifty. Interesting stuff!
I'm not so sure the rules ruin MLS. Afterall, the league is not like a well established European League - it sounds like they've gone for stability. Which is a good thing, if the US is to become the force I'm sure it will become. It sounds a bit artificial, but salary caps are something that have been considered over here. The gap between the Premier League is enormous and widening, mainly due to player wages.
And sadly, my team, Sheffield Wednesday has been relegated to the Second Division. :( A crying shame given the fan base we have - we should be mid-table Premiership. Our ground is very modern and large.
I blame Danny Wilson.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Thanks for the post Nifty. Interesting stuff!
I'm not so sure the rules ruin MLS. Afterall, the league is not like a well established European League - it sounds like they've gone for stability. Which is a good thing, if the US is to become the force I'm sure it will become. It sounds a bit artificial, but salary caps are something that have been considered over here. The gap between the Premier League is enormous and widening, mainly due to player wages.
And sadly, my team, Sheffield Wednesday has been relegated to the Second Division. :( A crying shame given the fan base we have - we should be mid-table Premiership. Our ground is very modern and large.
I blame Danny Wilson.
I remember when Wednesday were quite the 1st division stalwart...mind you...I remember when Nott Forest where the same...
Tronsky
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You mean the old Division 1? We were regular mid-table Premiership (what Division 1 became) from its inception to about '99. We had some great players - Di Canio, Carbone, Hinchcliffe (he was actually good back then). Then everything went down hill. Wilson couldn't manage the touchy international stars and four years later we find ourselves in Division 2 playing against crappy Division 2 sides. :(
Effectively, we find ourselves in Division 3 using the old system.
And I remember the cup finals against Arsenal only 10 years ago, with Waddle, Hurst et al in the side... those were the days...
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*sigh*
Oxford were in div 1 once......many many years ago.
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Originally posted by Nifty
and speaking of football games, do any of you play the FIFA series or the game from Konami (Winning Eleven International in the states, I think it's called Pro Soccer Evolution in the UK and Europe)???
I'm playing a great deal of Pro Evolution Soccer II for the PS2 with friends. As all games it's so much more fun when playing with someone, so we are usually 3 (2 the lowest) who play on same team. When we are more we make it human vs human (5 controllers).
I have tried EA Sports FIFA series, but they just doesn't seem right to me.
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Shame the MLS missed out on Gazza, he would have been good for the sport over there. He went to some chinese club instead, i saw the goal he scored in his first game, went past 2 then hit a 25-30 yard left foot shot into the top right hand corner :) not bad for a kebab eating, beer guzzling 35 year old, or whatever he now is!
Oh Nifty - i really like Newcastle too, i think most football fans in england respect them (apart from sunderland) Sir Bobby Robson is a legend, then with players like Shearer, Bellamy and Jenas (PFA Young player of the year) they play really good football.
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I like Bobby Robson and his style of management. I also enjoyed Keegan's 'It's just like watching Brazil' days at Newcastle United.
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heh, can you guys tell I don't have many people to talk to about soccer? :D
overall I don't think the rules of MLS ruin the game, though some of them are kinda weird. However, the playoff thing makes sense in the USA as ALL of our professional leagues, and even most college leagues (except for top division college "american style" football!) have playoffs. The regular season is just to get into the playoffs and to get seeding for the playoffs. I guess they felt like they should make MLS more like the rest of our leagues here. They do change things when it's completely asinine, such as that stupid shootout we used to have. That's gone thankfully.
The salary cap makes sense because the league doesn't have a lot of money yet. Fan base is picking up, they're averaging about 16,000 attendance so far this season. Part of the money reason is the league has to use existing stadiums, which means they gotta pay to use them above and beyond the costs of just running the stadium (and they don't get money from other events using the stadium.)
Speaking of the PFA players of the year, you did see who was the keeper in the PFA XI this year, didn't ya??? :D
I might check out the manager game, tho I usually prefer playing over just managing. ;)
Snefens, I'm jealous! None of my local friends are into soccer nearly as much as me, and I doubt I could get any of them to actually play even cooperatively with me. The one that might play is absolutely horrid at sports games though. I just play against the computer now. I'm still learning the controls so I'm only on 2 star level. ;) And I agree about FIFA. It's not a good football game, but they have all the licensing, so they've got all the natty teams, the "real" world cup, all the "real" domestic leagues and teams... I wish you could put the licensing of FIFA with the gameplay of Konami's game!
Dowding, Sheffield got relegated to 2nd division? :( that's too bad. John Harkes used to play for Wednesday, and I think they won a Cup of some kind while he was there, didn't they? I know he's the only American to score at Wembley, and you only had national team games and Cup finals there, correct? Anyways, Harkes retired this year, so he's doing broadcast work on the MLS highlights show. Poor guy, he was named "Captain for Life" of the US Nats in early 1998, then completely left off the roster for the WC 1998 in France! No wonder we had such a bad showing that WC, our coach was an utter handsomehunk!
Oh, yeah, MLS doesn't have relegation/promotion yet, and probably not ever. Too bad, our "second division", the A-League, has some decent teams. Rochester regularly defeats MLS teams in the US Open Cup (much like the FA cup where everyone gets a chance to compete, including a couple of amateur teams) and they even won the Cup one year!
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Yeah, pity about the license. I sat down one day and changed every single one of them to the correct names. I found a list of the names on the net, so I didn't have to figure out who the hell Radolno and Larcos was :)
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Originally posted by Nifty
Speaking of the PFA players of the year, you did see who was the keeper in the PFA XI this year, didn't ya??? :D
No, but im guessing brad friedel? :)
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Originally posted by Furball
No, but im guessing brad friedel? :)
yuppers! How 'bout that! A Yank in the PFA best XI! :D
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yeah! he deserves it! his early/mid season form was superb. He was winning points for blackburn all on his own!
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He was amazing in the world cup too.
As i predicted i didn't get promoted last season with Plymouth, it was just too tough! I finished 6th and got a playoff place, however cardiff beat me 3-1 on aggregate quite comfortably in the playoff.
I brought in a couple of new players that i badly neeed. I've got a new striker from finland and new central defender. I was thinking of getting a new keeper because he made a number of cockups last season, but he manager to get into the div 2. XI so he must be doing something right. The start to this season has been going well with 6 games played 5 wins and 1 loss. In the pre-season friendlies i beat south southapton 3-1, drew with bolton (which i shoulda won) and also beat feyenoord 3-0.:eek:
I'm 2/1 favourites to get promoted this season and i think i probably will if my injuries stay low.
Woooooo! come on you greens! :D