Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Badger on October 23, 2000, 06:43:00 AM
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Hi all..... <S>
I try to get back once every couple of weeks to catch up on important BBS posts.
A continued <Salute> to Pyro for moving and removing inappropriate posts.
A comment on the 326 threads from the self appointed game police lobbying to remove or emasculate the F4U-1c.
Where does it end? Once that mission is accomplished then I guess everyone will have to start pushing to dump the P51d or the George. It seems to me that the former spoils the game by being too fast and the latter turns too well and its firepower is way too high, as they always seem to be shooting me down. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The primary fact is that HTC's MA as currently designed, is an OPEN almost post war environment, covering every plane from 1939 through to 1945 or later. As implemented by HT, that's what the purpose of this arena is, not some "they only built 200 of those, so it shouldn't be here" kind of world. If you want restrictions, then lobby for historical environments that match plane release dates within their appropriate venues and lump the F4U-1c into a late war special production category. Until then, you will always see the frustrated and a waste of energy posts, by people who strive to promote balance in an arena, that is inherently unbalanced and biased by design towards planes built during the late war. I remember during beta when the George was king of the arena and everyone was whining about it being over modeled.
Heck, I love to fly the Zeke. I sit there with "ghosth" wearing our Banzai head bands I brought us back from Japan and constantly get "banged" by planes that never flew in the same theatre or weren't built in enough quantities to have ever engaged an A6M5b. Give me a break! How many Georges engaged Zekes in the Pacific theatre. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
You want a great match up? Set up a head to head arena and pit the A6M5b Zeke against the F4U1-d HOG and you get some fabulous 4 on 4's. You'll never see that in the MA.
BTW, in my opinion, it would be a mistake if HT listens to all of the over modeled whines on here and changes anything in FM or weapons on the F4U1-C as it relates to its competitiveness in the MA. IMHO, that has been the single largest problem with WB's in the last year, where the hyper reactions of small special interest groups (usually on AGW) caused changes to the program code, that simply kept the FM's and gunnery swinging back and forth creating further dissention. My comment is "stay the course" !!
A while ago, I asked HT about the F4U-1c personally and he assured me that it's on spec and within the program parameters of design for AH's program code simulation of flight, which is good enough for me. Until funked, wells, vermillion and a some other guys on here who's objective opinions on FM's I highly respect say it's so far out of whack that it does need to be changed, I vote to leave it alone and get on with enjoying the game. If they all said it needs some tweaking, then I'd fly whatever was the result. It's JUST A GAME. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
A good virtual game pilot will be dangerous in any current MA plane, but especially so in an F4U-1c. I've noticed that the new or average AH pilots trying to fly these things because I'm sure they've heard all of the "uber" whining about them, still die real easy, even from my tortoise paced Zeke.
Just my comments and opinions under General Discussion about AH, to which I'm entitled. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now, back to enjoying a fun simulation and 10Bears fabulous Luzon 2 terrain under Head to Head. You guys have to see and try that !!!!
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 10-23-2000).]
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Very well said Badger !! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
To me the only thing that is "overmodeled" in the game right now is the whinning.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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CHog really isn't a problem.
Sure, it will outperform the 190's at all but low alts in all respects, and will have worse climb rate, roll rate and acceleration down in the weed, but it ain't invulnerable.
I've found G10's to be excellent CHog killers - they're fast enough to catch a fleeing one and has a mighty engine that is good for setting up passes.
Heh, my problem is those T&B'ers - they never stay STILL dammit! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
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Well, I agree with you in priciple, Badger. But as you'll notice, I've started my own anti-Chog thread today.
The reason for it, is that I don't like opportunists who always have to grab the biggest gun, the fastest car, etc. when playing games with other people.
I've always rooted for the underdog. Heck, in Warbirds, I was probably the only dedicated SBD-5 driver. The plane was a deathtrap in the skies of the WB MA, but I just loved it, and was showing my appreciation for the developers adding it to the game.
In AH, the people who I really respect are the Zeke and C202 drivers, and pre 1.04 Typhoon drivers. Anyone who continues to fly a seriously uncompetative plane out of sheer love for the plane, has my respect and admiration.
Just my comments and opinions under General Discussion about AH, to which I'm entitled. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Good points badger.
banana... you are confusing Corsair performance with cannon performance. The Corsair (either one) performs about in the middle of the pack or lower depending on if speed, turn, climb or durability are considered. The cannons on the plane are tied for first. If cannon make so a huge difference that the whole plane is given a reputation that far outstripps it's performance then.... perhaps it is all the guns packages that need to be looked at. If it is the actual performance of the as that bothers you then you are simply phobic and..... wrong.
lazs
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Lazs, my problem is not with the cannon performance of the Chog, but of the people that simply must fly the plane with the most powerful guns.
Pyro said that the Chog and Dhog use the same FM, so the only thing making the Chog popular is the four frigging Hispanos.
If so many people like the Corsair so much, why don't they fly the Dhog more?
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If so many people like the Corsair so much, why don't they fly the Dhog more?
I do. When I am cappin' or just want to do ATA. If I am jabo, I drive the C. No matter what anyone says. Disregarding all the complaints. I choose to drive the C hog on a jabo run and no one is gonna change that. I have flown the hog since the variants came out. Dweeb? So be it.
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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Hi Badger
I did not know that you loved Zeke. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You were good enemy in F4U WB.
I fly Zeke still here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mizu
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Originally posted by Mizu:
I fly Zeke still here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mizu
Hi Mizu....
Glad to see you here as well... <S>
Yes I remember you....also from FO days. You were always an outstanding pilot and a gentleman in WB or FO. I do remember you waxed my butt many times. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I look forward to flying with you in here. Perhaps ghosth, you and I could get together and fly some wings with the A6M5b. It would be great if we could get RW live and do that.
Regards,
Badger
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well banana... it seems that most posts claim some sort of "UFO" capability for the Hogs. They claim the ability to make 180 degree turns with no loss of e and that sort of nonsensence. I would have no problem using 6 fifties for fighting other fighters if they performed reliably for me. Since they don't, the choice is made for me. If 6 fities worked reliably and historiclly then.... I'm afraid you would have a whole lot more to complain about than the mediocre chog. Imagine if you died or were seriously hurt every time a P51 or P47 pinged you? That would be historic results and would put a lot more people into those rides since it is easier to get hits with multiple MG's and they have such a large supply of ammo to boot.
lazs
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Sounds like fun here Badger!
Zeke would have a lot better chance if flown with some good teamwork & comm's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Banzai Headband & I are always ready, just let me know when & where!
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In this game as it stands now there will never be an end to the whining about the latest "uber" plane / vehicle.
The fans of the early war planes can't stand toe to toe with the later iron due to changes in performance, guns or both. They still want to fly it though and it is frustrating to pick your favorite bird and know that it is not competitive against the prevailing latter war rides.
There is really only one way to let everyone have what they want. That is to have multiple arenas ala AW. You can divide them by era or year of the war. Those that want the early match ups such as the F4F and Zero can do so. The same for the spit 5 and the early 109's. It can go on and on. In this type of setting there can be a variety of rides available that can be used and still be competitive.
Those that want the latest and greatest or biggest guns whatever can still fly that in the 1945 or post war era.
Personally I think there will be more in the later war time than the early as most want to fly the biggest and baddest. This is what is driving the perk plane situation. Get the most advantage and play the game angle.
Those others will at least have a chance to play the ride they want and have a chance of being competitive. I don't know if HTC can handle that many arenas or not but it would make the field a bit more level.
Mav
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well banana... it seems that most posts claim some sort of "UFO" capability for the Hogs.
They claim the ability to make 180 degree turns with no loss of e and that sort of nonsense.
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I dont post nonesense lazs.
I know what I saw. A F4U1C at 23k combat speed (fast) flew past me in a straight on merge. I was flying a P51 with half fuel doing around 420 TAS.
We simply flew straight at each other from being little dots in the distance. Instantly past the merge the HogC went straight up and over and pursued me from 1.2k. At that point I went nose down approaching compression. At 15K I got the BS cannons and vapaorized.
Fortunately it has not happened since.
If other people are experiencing similar feats of absurdity then I would start taking notice if I was Verm, Wells, Pyro...whoever the big kids are in this sim...err...game.
I was not going to bring this up and I did not want to here except for the notion that other people are nonsensical.
I would rather have 100 people squeak about something that may or may not be correct than to have everyone just go glossy in the eyes as if utopia were upon us. It is not!
Yeager
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yeager. as u say, this has not happened since. I believe that short of a hacker it is "nonsense" to think that a AH hog can do a 180 degree reversal on a P51 and catch it. I will be glad to go into and arena with you and I will take a 51 and you can have a hog.. we will merge at any alt... say 10k and u can reverse the instant we pass and try to catch me. I believe that this is impossible but I could be wrong. I can't do it tho.
As you know, I have been bouunced several times by 2 higher P51's while in a hog. I do my very best to cause a reversal/overshoot out turn whatever.. Those 51 pilots fly smart and I am allways lucky to get one of em but my UFO hog is allways low and slow with no E by that time, making me easy prey for the surviving 51. I am a mediocre stick at best and feel lucky to do this well but the results seem about what one would expect when 2 51's gan.. er team up on a hog.
lazs
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Lazs,
Given your line of thought on the matter then it must have been a hack.
My line of thought certainly did not exclude that possibility, but I have seen enough *mods and revisions* in the past 20+ releases to believe that something could easily have been out of whack with the F4U.
As long as I dont see this repeated by that particular player, or experience more UFO nonsense in gerneral, Im taking myself out of loop on this matter.
I STILL think including the four 20s in such a wonderful plane to begin with was foolish, but its long since done. Such is life.
Perhaps in the future, we can work our concerns, suspicians and doubts off one another in the TA.
Until then,
Check SIX!!!!!
Yeager
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I wonder about all the posts about uber planes. Realize of course I am only an average stick, and I normally fly the 47, the -25 to be exact. It has lost some of it's edge in this version more to the improvement of other ac rather than degradation of it's own fm.
I have tried all the "uber" planes and my results are about the same. I hit some, get a few kills, but nothing on the order of making the "new" airplane my choice ride.
I never have really worried too much about the "uberness" of one plane vrs the other, I just fly what I like. I happen to like the 47. Always have. I try to adjust when there is an "adjustment" to the fm of my opponents but I generaly find that if I get shot down it is due to a mistake on my part. I have never witnessed any "ufo" charactaristics in any plane. Not saying here some of you havn't, I just never have.
I enjoy the sim, game, whatever you want to call it, and log on for an evening's worth of forgetting that I have to make a living. I normaly ignore the "whines" on channel 1 and just try to do "my thing".
It's not real life. Not even close. Just enjoy it for what it is and learn to compensate for any deficiencies that may crop up. Say something about it in a post then drop the subject. Ranting endlessly about it becomes a bore. At least that is my opinion.
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MarkAT
"It is not the critic who counts,
it is the man in the arena..."
Teddy Roosevelt
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the hog c can kill a tank in a ho nuf said .its not right and they said that it is i guess it must be right right?
p.s. it is not right even it they say it is.
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Got some private email that prompted me to offer a suggestion.
In the next day or so, I'll set up an 8 man Head to Head server for everyone's use. It will be a 866 Mhz (256 megs main memory) machine running off a private segment Cable Modem (very low latency). I'll leave it running 7x24 and configure 10Bears great Luzon 2 terrain to offer two sides (allied vs IJN) with the allies having the F4U-1c (HOG) as the primary ride and the IJN being given the A6M5b (Zeke) and N1K2 (George).
I'd suggest that all of the proponents of eliminating the F4U-1c from this plane set, get some of their supporters together and show up ready to fly the "uber" CHOG in some 4 vs 4 against these pathetically inferior IJN planes. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Since the feeling voiced by a vocal group on here is that the F4U-1c is somehow porked in favor of being an over modeled superior flight and weapons platform, then I'd suggest they give the IJN opponents an altitude advantage as a handicap. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Just kidding !!!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Equal altitude is acceptable.
I'm in and out this weekend, but I'll leave the server up and try to get on to fly IJN whenever possible.
After giving this a run, it would be interesting to read the resulting posts about this particular plane. I predict two things will happen. First, that the guys flying the F4U-1c will get a surprise as to just how average this plane is and how much "thinking ahead" SA it takes to survive in it. Second, very few, if any vocal proponents of canning it will actually show up and really fly the F4U-1c for very long. I base this last comment upon the general reaction of people when I set up and leave running the same scenario, except only offer the F4U-1d versus the A6M5b. Comments about the DHOG in the buffer range from "what a dog", "an absolute pig", "how do you stay alive in this crate", to "someone needs to switch to allied so we have an enemy", usually when it's 6-2 or 5-3 odds against the allies. I wonder why there's such a reluctance to want to fly the F4U-1d against only a target drone like the tortoise paced zeke? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Come one, come all.... now's your chance to demonstrate your point. If nobody shows, then I'll take down the server (give it back to the wife) and rest the case.
Regards,
Badger
Looking for a different kind of environment to discuss your favorite on-line flight simulator?
http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 10-24-2000).]