Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on April 28, 2003, 12:33:42 PM
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OK, this is really off-topic, but....
I am selling my house. The buyer had it inspected, and came back saying that they want attic ventilation installed. (They are just looking for a price reduction).
My attic is a finished attic. 4 windows, 2 heating/cooling vents and 1 return vent. There is fiberglass insulation between the drywall and the ceiling/roof.
Question: Why would this attic need additional ventilation? They want a pitch vent and cap vents installed. There is no air to ventilate in my opinion. My home inspector, nor my HVAC guy that installed my central air ever brought it up as an issue.
Is this just something petty the buyer is using to drive down the selling price?
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Is there any open space above the finished area? Are there other unfinished attic areas?
Attics are suppposed to be ventilated but not if there's no open space as in a "cathedral cieling" type installation.
You can put a powered attic ventilator that runs off a thermostat all by yourself and it's pretty easy. This would be for an attic with an open area above the ceilings of the upper rooms.
But roof venting is a "standard" thing if that's what you are asking.
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Thanks for the reply. Except for a very small area where the duct work is located, there is no unfinshed area in the attic. It is a pitched roof so it is very much like a cathedral ceiling.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
My attic is a finished attic. 4 windows, 2 heating/cooling vents and 1 return vent. There is fiberglass insulation between the drywall and the ceiling/roof.
Sounds like you're code already.
The additional ventilation they're asking for sounds like the "poor mans air conditioning" that costs roughly $500 for a fan system that expels the hot air trapped in the attic during the summer months. It will lower the temp of the house, but not as much as an air conditioner.
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don't take their word on it, ask for a copy of the inspection report, some inspectors will "find" things to help the buyer get a lower price and justify the cost of the inspection.
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They are full of crap. Attic ventilation is for when your attic is unconditioned. Your attic has supply and return ducts to the central hvac system and undoubtedly has sufficient ventilation. Adding a cap vent or pitch vent would just waste energy.
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Mickey,
I'm moving house too! If someone came to the house I'm selling and told me I had to do this and do that, I'd show them the door. In my experience, folks like that never come through when the moment comes for parting wit' brass. If they were serious buyers, they'd work out a deal with you.
On attics and a/c, I have a question about American homes. A friend of mine lived in Colorado, and his house did not have air conditioning as I understand it. Instead, he had to open the door to the attic, and then he started up this horrendous machine up there which had a big wheel on it and a 2" belt going around. I don't know what this was or how it worked, but it got some cooler air to the downstairs, so I guess it worked.
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Instead, he had to open the door to the attic, and then he started up this horrendous machine up there which had a big wheel on it and a 2" belt going around. I don't know what this was or how it worked, but it got some cooler air to the downstairs, so I guess it worked.
That would be a fan. In areas with milder summers many houses don't have air conditioning. They just use fans to circulate air. Your friend's fan was probably pumping air out of the house through the attic.
ra
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Originally posted by john9001
don't take their word on it, ask for a copy of the inspection report, some inspectors will "find" things to help the buyer get a lower price and justify the cost of the inspection.
Yep there is one constant thing you hear from anybody in construction business: Inspectors Don't Know ****
If they knew anything they'd be building.
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Thanks for the reply all. I am trying to find the company that did the original work 4 years ago to verify that there is insulation behind the drywall. If nothing else I could drill a hole. I think the home inspector assumed there wasn't insulation since he couldn't verify that there was.
The buyers are first-timers and their realtor is an older woman. I think she has them convinced that ALL buyers come back after the inspection and ask to have something "fixed".
beet1e, in the US it's different. What you have to do is try and sell your house for 10% more than what you really want for it, because the buyer always offers a lower price and tries to nickel and dime you even lower.
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
OK, this is really off-topic, but....
I am selling my house. The buyer had it inspected, and came back saying that they want attic ventilation installed...
My attic is a finished attic. 4 windows....
simple fix - open the windows :)
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I just read a house offered for-sale sold for $167,000 more than listed. Became a bidding war between 4 couples. Los Angeles area. Whew!
Thorns
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If it's all finished and conditioned space, I think you're clear.
I do have a standard ICC residential code book around here; I'll look tomorrow and give you chapter and verse so you can stick it in the inspectors ear.
Assuming I can find an applicable section, of course! ;)
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Instead, he had to open the door to the attic, and then he started up this horrendous machine up there which had a big wheel on it and a 2" belt going around. I don't know what this was or how it worked, but it got some cooler air to the downstairs, so I guess it worked.
sounds like what you're describing is a 'swamp cooler'. it only works in areas without high humidity. there are several designs but basicly you have a fan that blows air in from outside, and a wet surface, when the water eveporates it takes heat from the air to do it. the one you describe sounds like the type that have a resivour of water and a belt that runs through the water then passes in front of the fan, some have water that drips down on a screen or cloth, others 'wick' the water up from a resivour but they all work on the same principal. basicly the same effect as hanging wet laundry in front of a window fan.
I'm not even sure if they still make them. I haven't seen one in over 15 years.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
sounds like what you're describing is a 'swamp cooler'. it only works in areas without high humidity.
Rgr that. It was not simply a fan, as ra suggested - lol. The guy lived just north of Denver, elevation about 6000'. So yes, the summer days were hot and dry. It made a right old racket when it was running.
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I'm not sure which area your house is in (code wise), but attic ventilation is to prevent condensation and mold (sweating) especially in winter. A roof vent is a minor thing to install. Spend $100 and do it yourself.
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Toad, let me know if you find that. That would be great.
rpm, they want a pitch/ridge vent too. This involves cutting out a notch in the roof. No way I am doing that myself. :)
(http://doityourself.com/images/roof/lines.jpg)
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Mickey - assuming you were to carry out these alterations, is there any guarantee that these people would follow through and actually purchase the property?
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Mickey:
First, realize this code applies to new construction or to remodeling. It does not force compliance with structures that were built "correctly" in years past. In other words, if your house is older and any remodeling in the attic was done before "current code" was instituted, your house is fine. It does not have to be made to comply. If they have questions about this, tell them to reference IRC 2000, Section R102.7 and R102.7.1
Now, your roof:
SECTION R806
ROOF VENTILATION
R806.1 Ventilation required. Enclosed attics and enclosed rafter spaces formed where ceilings are applied directly to the underside of roof rafters shall have cross ventilation for each separate space by ventilating openings protected against the entrance of rain or snow. Ventilating openings shall be provided with corrosion-resistant wire mesh, with 1/8 inch (3.2 mm) minimum to ¼ inch (6.35 mm) maximum openings.
R806.2 Minimum area.
The total net free venting area shall not be less than 1 to 150 of the area of the space ventilated except that the total area is permitted to be reduced to 1 to 300, provided at least 50 percent and not more than 80 percent of the required venting area is provided by ventilators located in the upper portion of the space to be ventilated at least 3 feet (914 mm) above eave or cornice vents with the balance of the required ventilation provided by eave or cornice vents. As an alternative, the net free cross-ventilation may be reduced to 1 to 300 when a vapor barrier having a transmission rate not exceeding 1 perm (57.4 mg/s·m²·Pa) is installed on the warm side of the ceiling.
R806.3 Vent clearance. Where eave or cornice vents are installed insulation shall not block the free flow of air. A minimum of 1-inch (25.4 mm) space shall be provided between the insulation and the roof sheathing at the location of the vent.
SECTION R807
ATTIC ACCESS
R807.1 Attic access. In buildings with combustible ceiling or roof construction, an attic access shall be provided to attic areas that exceed 30 square feet (2.8 m²) and have a vertical height of 30 inches (762 mm) or greater.
The rough-framed opening shall not be less than 22 inches by 30 inches (559 mm by 762 mm) and shall be located in a hallway or other readily accessible location. A 30-inch (762 mm) minimum unobstructed headroom in the attic space shall be provided at some point above the access opening. See Section M1305.1.3 for access requirements where mechanical equipment is located in attics.
It's online too:
2000 International Residential Code (http://triplecrown.4t.com/code/irc00dx.htm)
Unfortunately, if this was built AFTER the code was adopted (whatever Code version your locality is using; the IRC is a compilation of previous codes into one Code that is essentially universal now) I think it would need venting.
This describes your room in the attic, right?
enclosed rafter spaces formed where ceilings are applied directly to the underside of roof rafters
If so, they need
shall have cross ventilation for each separate space by ventilating openings protected against the entrance of rain or snow.
IF this was built when this Code was in force. If it was built BEFORE the local code required it, you don't need ventilation.
Now, what I am uncertain about... since I'm not a building inspector or a builder... is the definition of "each separate space". Are they talking about the whole room, in which case your windows are considered cross ventilation. Or are they talking about each individual rafter bay?
I'd call a remodeler and ask them just what this part of the code means. Seems odd they'd require cross ventilation of each enclosed rafter bay that already has insulation in it. How are you going to ventilate that?
Good luck!
Good luck!
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"Now, what I am uncertain about... since I'm not a building inspector or a builder... is the definition of "each separate space". Are they talking about the whole room, in which case your windows are considered cross ventilation. Or are they talking about each individual rafter bay? "
That's what I was wondering. Since each individual rafter bay is filled with insulation, I don't see what good ventilation would do.
The renovations were done in 1998, but the house was built in 1912.
(http://www.real-estatesupersite.com/images/homes/2311294_0.jpg)