Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Grendel on April 29, 2003, 07:19:37 AM
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Fokker, Morane, Me 109 ace interview preview. Darn amazing stuff inside!
Hemmo Leino. Fokker D.XXI, Morane-Saulnier 406, Messerschmitt 109 ace.
11 official victories. 20+ recently confirmed.
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/kuvat/ww2history-hemmoleino04.jpg)
These texts are PREVIEW from the full interview coming soon to the Finnish Virtual Pilots Association
aviation history site. You will find this and many other excellent articles from the site
at address:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
Please visit it for many interesting aviation history interviews and stories :)
The original interview has been translated by mr. Ossi Juntunen, many thanks!
I especially recommend the quite unbelievable feat in the end of this preview, where Hemmo shoots down 4 Yak-9s in two days - all Yaks from the same squadron!
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Q. When converting from the Fokker to the Morane, what kind of training did you get?
A. We did have type training. We had to go to A/B Hirvas where LeLv28 was operating from with the Moranes (M-S 406). We learned to fly them, it was a few hours' instruction course and then we continued in practice. When back in Tiiksjärvi we went on training on our own. As a matter of fact there was not much to learn! The Morane was just another aircraft with its quirks but when we were informed about them or instructed about them, they could be flown like any other plane.
Morane and her weapons, gunsight problems and about air-to air shooting skill
Q. What was it like to fly the Morane (M-S 406) after flying the Fokker? What was it like as a plane?
A. It was a jolly good plane. It was agile, the only fault was the miserably weak engine. She could not climb fast enough in an emergency, that was the problem. The armament could also have been better. The rat guns were miserably weak and the mags were of small capacity, it was not much good for anything. But the Berezina heavy machine gun was good. There have been complaints that it did not want to work but mine fired every time! I never wanted to blame it.
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Q. The gunsight illumination was out?
A. Quite so. There are some who think that you should be able to hit with the help of your tracers but I cannot believe that. It is the gunsight that tells you where you are hitting. The tracers do have their own trajectories! Before you can see where the tracer goes the target has already moved!
Q. So in your opinion you cannot aim with tracers?
A. I do not want to start an argument. In my opinion aiming by tracers cannot be successful, except at a bomber. You can approach to a very short range and then shoot, the target would be a big lump.
Q. Especially when you have to take deflection to shoot.
A. That is right. It would be darn difficult! You have to start by estimate and if the situation changes ever so little, your burst is going somewhere else. The ones who are saying that they have shot down planes by observing their tracers. I would like to tell them that you must have been dreaming and telling tales.
Q. Did you tell your opinion already in the war or afterwards?
A. I said that at least I never shot down a plane by observing my tracers. I am not able to do that. If anyone can, he is a better pilot! But not me. Someone boasted a little, saying he shot down a plane with the help of his tracers only. Allow me have my doubts!
Q. The ammunition consumption is considerable, if you start shooting and observe the tracers...
A. Yes, considering that the burst has its trajectory and the target its own course! And you have to take deflection! There is no way to be successful!
Q. Do you remember from which angle you used to shoot at a target?
A. It depended on the plane you were shooting at. The Il-2 had to be fired at from the side, you could not down him from any other direction. It was in vain to shoot a well armoured plane like the Il-2 from behind. You could not accomplish anything. But fighters were vulnerable from every quarter. And the bombers had a lot of weak spots. Although I did not get to shoot at bombers very often! I cannot tell much about them. We were shooting at a Boston and that was a piece of experience. You do know what would happen if you approach very close behind, you shall be hit by the debris. Next time you know to avoid that.
Hemmo and five I-15bis behind the enemy lines
Leino: The War Archive has no authentic records about that time, but only self-serving adventure stories. It ends spring 1942, and nothing later than that. It is a great pity, I cannot find out the facts but here are some clear cases. For example I have tried to find someone who was with the raid against the Jelijärvi Russian depot. In that case Matti Tainio was leading the flight. We were six. We arrived at Jeljärvi, he told us that Kalima and Leino stay at 4000 and observe the surroundings. The rest dived as something began to move on the ice. They went but Kalima joined them. They all bounced the alleged enemy planes moving on the ice. One tried to take off but it was shot up at the takeoff. I saw that but I also saw five I-15bis flying in a beautiful formation in the direction of Segezha, past Jeljärvi.
Well, of course I did not stay up there but started pursuing those planes. I had a lot of extra speed, diving from up there, and they were flying at the treetops. I could not decelerate in time, yet I hastily fired. I managed to get a shot at two of the planes as they were flying in a parade formation wingtip to wingtip! I don't know what happened to them. I passed them, but nothing happened, four planes kept flying in formation as I approached again. I went on shooting and wondered deeply when one of them is shot at and there is a plane on each side yet they appear unmoved by the fact that their neighbour is being fired at!
Then I thought it must be a training flight. These are no real military men! I did not have any time more... Finally we were pretty deep in the enemy rear. We crossed a railway line, it was the Murmansk railway. It did not worry me but while shooting at one of the planes I saw the chimneys of Segezha ahead. And there is an airbase behind them! Then fear overcame me! I thought, here I am alone deep in Russia and soon lots of planes shall be coming to attack me. I headed for home. Nobody else but me shot at those five planes. Now Geust comes with this data, and I would like to get it confirmed.
Q. To find out whether they really went down?
A. Yes, here is data about a five plane flight that lost three, these fellows were shot down.
(Studying the information about the battle provided by Geust)
Q. Does this mean that it is officially recorded?
A. This is recorded in a way... Our HQ approved two victories for me. Whatever way they examined my claim. They just informed the Squadron or the Flight that two downed planes are approved. I do not know how they approved them.
Q. The wrecks must have been found or a ground observation post may have seen the plane fall down?
A. Something like that, in principle, but these were deep in Russia! I don't know how they got the information but this here proves that all three went down. They must have been trainees all of them, because their rank was Junior Sergeant. They did fly like trainees! It did not make any sense, flying like that...They could have attempted to do something! The instructor must have had a hard time in explaining after landing where his trainees actually are.
Q. I think he paid dearly for this. One trainee out of four survived.
A. Obviously the instructor and one trainee survived. This is the data found, but there is no kind of Finnish contributing data to be found! No documents, all gone! All witnesses are dead!
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Morane equipment and weapons - well trimmed plane
Q. You mentioned that the Morane had small magazines. However, in this case you had shot down three planes, did you have any ammo left?
A. The Berezina did have a large magazine! It was enough if you only knew to spend them according to the situation. But the light MGs were just toys with tiny little magazines. They could be spent with one burst!
Q. Did the Morane have one or two triggers?
A. There was one. Each plane was different! I had an electric trigger installed in my plane! The airscrew was also electrically adjustable, usually it was pneumatic.
Q. You had the Escher-Wyss airscrew, the Swiss one?
A. Right.
Q. Then you must have had a well trimmed Morane.
A. You know about it?
Q. I have read about the Escher-Wyss airscrew. Did the Berezina also feature electric trigger?
A. Not in the MS-319. The MS MGs were operated with a finger trigger in the control column. For my own plane I had the system modified into a thumb operated push button. How were the wing guns selected again? Did they have a separate trigger...cannot remember now.
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Q. I am not sure but if I am right there was a selector and one trigger
A. I agree, but where was the selector? Can't remember. But I do remember the trigger of the Berezina. It was a long one if pneumatic, but mine was electric and I had it replaced. Initially it was in the stem of the control column. I had it moved so that I could press it with my thumb! That was far more natural! I cannot remember how the wing guns were activated. It could be that there was a selector. It must have been, because I can remember only one trigger.
Q. When the rat guns of the Morane were out of ammo did you fire with one MG only?
A. Yes. But the Berezina was pretty effective! The magazine held quite a lot of ammunition. I would have had enough bullets to get all the five down (laughing) if only I had had the courage. But it was still unfamiliar to me. It was one of my first dogfights. I surely would not have blundered in that way in the final months of the war. In the beginning of the war there was some insecurity when flying deep in the enemy rear. I must have got cold feet! There is no other explanation.
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Q. One question about the Fokker: how were the guns harmonized?
A. They were adjusted to converge at 300m. At least I had mine focused at 300. That is the range to start shooting, and the bullets go where you aim at. Then it does not matter much if the bullets go a little off the aiming point.
Q. You used to start shooting at 300m?
A. 300m, yes. Or any other in each case.
Q. Did that concern other planes than the Fokker?
A. According to what I recall...yes! I am not sure, however! Some time has passed. It must have been 300m, it could not have been closer. It would not make sense - else the bursts would converge too soon. Shooting from 300m the focal point would be in a wrong place! It must be 300m. When the range gets shorter the MG bursts stay quite well bunched. But if the focal point is quite near the burst disperse.
Q. The Messerschmitt had weapons placed in the nose...
A. That is the ideal place, one cannot think of anything better! The guns fire straight without dispersal!
Q. Did you apply the same range (with the Messerschmitt)? Did the cannon affect shooting in any way?
A. The weapons did not need to be focused because they were side-by-side. Only wing cannons, if installed, needed that.
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Dogfights with Yak-9s
Q. Did the enemy planes ever get a shoot at you? Did you take hits?
A. Never really... There were some holes but very little. It was the last dogfight actually as the enemy got to shoot at me a little. But it was by accident really. It was a case as two Yak-9s came toward me. They approached from the North and made me turn at them. The altitude was about one and a half thousand (meters). They engaged me, being a little above. I was coming from South and my red light was on (indicating low fuel), because our base was nearby. I was heading for Lappeenranta but as they slipped behind my back I had to start climbing.
Q. In a spiral?
A. Yes, a spiral. We kept climbing. Finally we were at 5000m and I had forgotten to put on the oxygen mask. All the time I was worrying how far my petrol reserve would take me. We kept going round and round in a spiral. Each time I saw the enemy was about to shoot I pulled some more and each time he missed. But I heard two snaps and I came to Lappeenranta with two holes. But my underlying intention was that in case there is enough fuel, I shall take a shoot. I thought this is such a juicy situation that I shall not let them out of my hands even though I should run out of petrol, because there was an airfield just below, Suur-Merijoki.
We had talked about it, and decided that one could make an emergency landing there. I was thinking that I shall get him, I have enough... My plane was so light that I was able to climb better than they could. There were no problems. We flew nose to tail and the rearmost Yak had no chance of shooting. But the one behind me kept jerking, trying to get deflection ...
It was such a special situation, that I have a training mate who was killed in Olonez, he vertically dived in the Lake Onega. He did not get enough oxygen and it killed him. And I, too, had forgotten about my oxygen when approaching five thousand (meters). The face of my mate, Lasse Andersen, appeared to me before my eyes. (Lars Andersen was killed on 29 Feb 1944). Then it dawned to me, oh my, I shall be short of breath soon, I grabbed my oxygen mask and kept turning. Then I saw the (Russian) boys were being left behind. First one turned and dived, then the other one and I as the third. Then I kept shooting at them as long as I could. I was sure that the first one I fired at was in my opinion definitely going to fall. I got to shoot at the other one too, but then I throttled back and took direction to Lappeenranta. I was not sure, I could not be sure because I had not seen them crash. Yet I reported them. Now that I can find in the Geust list both names, so they both fell down.
And the very next day the same thing. Another two, another two Yak-9s (shot down) according to Geust. I don't know how fellows are able to see in a real intense scrap, how they can observe a plane going down and crash. I always was in such situation that I was damn satisfied getting disengaged and finding that that one will not be a problem anymore. It never occurred to me to watch whether he hit the ground. Yes, it is not interesting at that stage. I don't know, I wonder how in such a situation someone, under stress, can be interested in watching whether the victim goes down or not. It is not in the least interesting. When you have calmed down then you start thinking "Did he fall - did I shoot down something?"
Q. You could have inspected the wreck?
A. Well, I cannot recall...I have seen some. I often have seen how others have shot, but I never checked the own ones... It is great that there is someone like Geust researching these things for us. I cannot make any new demands, I am satisfied with the score officially credited to me. At least it is not exaggerated. The main thing is that I did not make a career as storyteller.
Well, I did have a couple of holes. Not many other cases...The hits were in the rear, where I guessed they would be. They kept trying. But always they lagged behind, being unable to take deflection.
Q. How well could you observe those pursuers?
A. It could be done quite well. There was nothing. I did see when he would...I learned to notice that there, now he is about to shoot because he tightened his turn and it could be seen that he tried... Actually it was very amusing. I was not in any trouble.
Q. How steep was the climbing angle?
A. It was about the optimal rate of climb
Q. About looking down, could you stretch yourself to look down or were you tightly strapped in the seat?
A. We used to pull the belts tight
I have enough experience about having slack belts. During training we were once doing instrument flying under hood as my instructor Vilkuna said: "I am steering". I thought, what is he up to? His wife was a teacher in the local school. I was under the dark hood. I felt and could also tell by the instruments that he was pushing the nose down and picking up speed. Then I felt I was being pressed in the seat and then going up again. Then the cockpit tilted and I found, heck, my belts are not fastened. I had no chance of grabbing the speaking tube and shout him, neither had I any time to fiddle with the belts. I just hang on the fuselage tubes of the Viima with my hands. There we kept going, I was sweating as the plane climbed in a spiral. The instructor must have been buzzing the school. After that incident I used to keep my belts buckled. It never occurred to me that during an instrument flying lesson anything like that would happen...
During the flight I did not dare to say anything. I was ashamed of admitting that my belts were not fastened. I sighed of relief as we returned to level flight. I was under the dark hood and it was uncomfortable. I would have flown right through the hood (if my grip slipped). It was not so well fastened that it would have held me inside.
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wow...
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Great links Grendel, I especially enjoyed the article about Erich Hartmann. The story of when Lawrence Thopson encounters Erich's 109 is worth a couple of reads! Also, those Finns can really fly the Brewster can't they? Very interesting.
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Hi,
Thanks for posting this, plus that site is fantastic. Was reading the 109G6 manual particularly the bail out and forced landing procedures and the relative survivability depending on terrain - sobering stuff. Undo straps, oxygen, mask, radio lines, try to remember to duck when jettisoning the canopy to avoid your head being taken with it and the importance of using your legs to push of from the airframe to avoid getting caught in the tail section.
I think once would be one too many for me.