Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fariz on April 30, 2003, 03:48:54 AM
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Afraid couple more trinity rotations and my squad will just stop to exist. People reject to fly this one. Really not good for strat players, at least with 32 people squad limmiter as it is now.
Bishops squads COs, interested in some cooperative actions, contact me pls.: fariz@warriormage.com
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Im interested. Pls send orders and plans 1 day before action.
:D ;)
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lemme talk to Busher comrade general Fariz.....
I'm sure 418 Hornets would join.....
we joined your 202 and KI missions:D
was great seeing 30 202's giving Rooks a run for there money....
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Same problem Fariz, quite a few in our squad (especially me!) hate Trinity because it's always in rotation in AH. I often log when I see it and mostly fly just weekends now instead of every day.
But, if we can all work together and get Trinity booted off quicker, then we may get some support!
!
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OK, I'll admit I'm not a fan of Trinity either.
The interesting thing that I see, though, is that I have to become what I dislike in order to rotate the map.
No offense to anyone in this thread but in order to reset this map, we need to mob up in overwhelming numbers and "steamroller" our way to a reset, porking fuel at adjacent bases, etc., etc., etc.. Goofing the enemies bases so that the majority of their troops have to fly endless goonie missions to resupply up to a point that they can actually fight back.
This is "fun"?
This type of gameplay is EXACTLY what is currently turning me off in AH, a game I used to love as my favorite form of recreation.
When I have more fun just horsing around in the DA than I do in the MA, it forces me to evaluate how to redistribute my small amount of recreation time.
Maybe this is a whine.. I'll have to let my betters evaluate it for me.
If this is what online ACM has come to, it's not my idea of fun. If it is yours, I you and wish you well.
I still do squad nites with my squaddies but that's pretty much the extent of my AH now. I will play on the other maps unless the 200 plane steamroller of strat mode is in effect that particular night too.
Maybe I've just failed to adapt and like the dinosaurs, it's time to sink into the swamp.
As I said, if you enjoy that stuff, I salute you. I find the fault in myself, not the game or the other players. I blame no one but myself.
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I enjoy the extended runs of Trinity it's one of the best maps AH has at the moment.
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, I'll admit I'm not a fan of Trinity either.
The interesting thing that I see, though, is that I have to become what I dislike in order to rotate the map.
No offense to anyone in this thread but in order to reset this map, we need to mob up in overwhelming numbers and "steamroller" our way to a reset, porking fuel at adjacent bases, etc., etc., etc.. Goofing the enemies bases so that the majority of their troops have to fly endless goonie missions to resupply up to a point that they can actually fight back.
This is "fun"?
This type of gameplay is EXACTLY what is currently turning me off in AH, a game I used to love as my favorite form of recreation.
When I have more fun just horsing around in the DA than I do in the MA, it forces me to evaluate how to redistribute my small amount of recreation time.
Maybe this is a whine.. I'll have to let my betters evaluate it for me.
If this is what online ACM has come to, it's not my idea of fun. If it is yours, I you and wish you well.
I still do squad nites with my squaddies but that's pretty much the extent of my AH now. I will play on the other maps unless the 200 plane steamroller of strat mode is in effect that particular night too.
Maybe I've just failed to adapt and like the dinosaurs, it's time to sink into the swamp.
As I said, if you enjoy that stuff, I salute you. I find the fault in myself, not the game or the other players. I blame no one but myself.
And who force you to fly the way, you do not like to fly? It is always some fields to go up from with 125% of fuel, and some people to fight.
By other words, if you do not love to play for strat, play for furballs. This game has enough place for everyone.
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Hm...
Warbirds: 1 map/month - 50 players prime time.
Aces High pre-Trinity: 5 Maps in equal rotation - 500 players prime time
Aces High post-Trinity: 1 map 90% of the time - 200 players prime time.
Now that's probably what is really going wrong at WBs ;)
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Well Fariz, was up last nite and found a relatively decent small furball on Trinity. Of course, it was a bit of a "drive" to get over to it, so early war planes were pretty well out of the question as the nearest bases had had their fuel knocked down to 25%.
Rude and I took 51's as 25% allows a bit of a fight. As it turned out, we went over there as fast as we could, only climbing to about 5k. Had one or two decent engagements and kills each and then ran out of gas as the next wave of 2-4 came in.
Tried this about twice, got tired of running out of gas so quickly. We logged.
As I said, I admit the fault is mine. I no longer have the patience to cruise for 15 or 20 minutes to get to a fight that can't last very long.
When I find myself alt-out to surf while I'm trying to get to the action, I know I personally have problem.
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Originally posted by Toad
Well Fariz, was up last nite and found a relatively decent small furball on Trinity. Of course, it was a bit of a "drive" to get over to it, so early war planes were pretty well out of the question as the nearest bases had had their fuel knocked down to 25%.
As I said, I admit the fault is mine. I no longer have the patience to cruise for 15 or 20 minutes to get to a fight that can't last very long.
When I find myself alt-out to surf while I'm trying to get to the action, I know I personally have problem.
Toad, I fly AH all the posible ways just not to be tired of it. I fly it as a furballers, strat, for k/d, for scores, for killstreaks etc., though lately almost exclusively first 2. Though it is sometime when it was hard to find fights, due to distances, alts, fuel status etc., but usually it is not a problem at all. May be we fly at different time zones, and when you are online situation is different?
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If there is only really one aspect of the game you enjoy I don’t see trying another to fill the fun void.
The fact for Trinity is there are only a few bases that are at the right locations that promote good A2A fights and furballs. Make the bases 20-25 miles apart and there will be better fights.
Flight times are just too long. Bombing, haven’t tried it since the new calibration, vehicles, I like to fly.
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Originally posted by Toad
When I find myself alt-out to surf while I'm trying to get to the action, I know I personally have problem.
And God forbid you get shot down while Alt-tabbed out. Thats 20 mins more of downtime :mad: .
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would reducing the map by say 10-15% in overall size & Mtn alts be a feesable solution? I actually like the map exept for 3 things:
1) Too far between fields
2)Mtns placed between fields just too high
3)Top 2 countries almost always team on bottom. (when was the last time an upper country was reset on trinity? anyone?)
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Love it.
My favorite map.
Only the CT finland-russia map compares
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Originally posted by anton
would reducing the map by say 10-15% in overall size & Mtn alts be a feesable solution? I actually like the map exept for 3 things:
1) Too far between fields
2)Mtns placed between fields just too high
3)Top 2 countries almost always team on bottom. (when was the last time an upper country was reset on trinity? anyone?)
SW country always resetted on Trinity. West country always win a reset. BTW it is 4th time in a row rooks get west.
I personally do not think map is bad. I like it more, than, for example, pizza or baltica. But biggest problem is time it takes to be resetted. One of the things which keeps me in AH is map diversity, and adding Trinnity was a good step, just would like it to be resetted faster, than in 2 weeks. Seing same map day after day, getting fields just to find tomorrow it is all the same, is not good.
That is why I am not asking to remove it from rotation, I am looking for solution. There are several. Map may be redesigned, couple bugs removed, and vehicle spawn made both way, not one way like now. Will make this map much easier to reset. It may be added a forced switch, which will get us to next map after 5 days. Third solution is players can cooperate strongly to reset it. Because first 2 are beyound my control, I am trying for third.
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Originally posted by Toad
This type of gameplay is EXACTLY what is currently turning me off in AH, a game I used to love as my favorite form of recreation.
Hey Toad. :) I came to Aces High maybe 3 years ago from a WW1 environment. I still remember DJ, Wabbit and SeaWulfe all yelling at me: "Don't climb towards a higher plane." I mention this because the 13th TAS were very good at giving me free lessons in the evils of climbing towards a higher plane. ;)
Toad, I know of no squad in Aces High that exceeds the 13th TAS in cooperative tactics. 2-3 years ago, I never saw you guys involved in base capture. Rather, you would pick a field at random, fly there with some altitude and challenge the field below you to come up and fight.
You know how Aces High works ... put 7 planes over a field and there's a big green bar; soon, there's a big red bar, then a bigger green bar and so on. ;)
Within 20 minutes or so, you guys would still be at 15k, no ammo and 6 kills each. And then you would fly home. ;)
Why not divorce yourself from fiield captures? Why not say "I'm going to do what is fun."
I guess I'm not sure I understand why you feel compelled to participate in base capture. Trinity is a beautiful map and it is ideally suited for your tactics of years past -- tactics that you guys obviously enjoyed. :)
curly
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Curly, perhaps my post isn't clear.
We don't do base captures; we've never really been a "strat" squad. Oh, we'll help out and we do it now and then but basically, we're a fighter squad. We look for other groups of fighters to fight.
What I'm saying is I really don't care to participate in the 50 plane steamroller campaigns. It quickly ends up with six guys all chasing the same enemy. Being on either end of that doesn't really interest me. Then on to the next base, either on offense or defense, and do it all over again.
Seems like that's what the game has become.
Which is fine for those that like it. As I said, I realize the problem is in myself.
Even trying to stay out of the steamroller's path, either way offense or defense, there's the problem of porked fuel. Trinity with its big spread in fields can be very limiting to the early war half of the planeset once some "building battler" (as Laz puts it) knocks the fuel down at the bases on the FEBA.
Used to be you could fly a goon in and get things going again but with the new "big map, slow plane, fly a goon all night to build up the fuel" system, What's it take now, 4 trips in a goon to build the fuel up to 50 at a porked base? I (my problem again) don't feel like flying a goon for an hour to get the fuel up so I can then fly a slow fighter to the fight.
Last night was squad night; we spent the whole time in the DA, upping from the same field and hassling. Most fun I've personally had in a long time in the AH venue. I think the other guys enjoyed it as well.
That'll last for a while.
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Ya know... it occurs to me that the fields are too far apart. I bet that if we had about 30 more CV groups and ports it would be better too.
course... if steamrolling or getting steamrolled is your idea of great strat... or if you need two sectors to get alt in your clumsy allmost a perk plane or... if the excitement of fighting a dozen of your own countrymen to get to that lone con that yu see every 20 minutes is allmost too much for you... then, you will love infinity.
just a thought..
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Boy some of you guys must be spoiled.....
We now have complaints of maps taking upwards of week to reset ...
I remember flying for "Years" in the Big Pork in AW... no map rotation, then finnaly we got monthly rotation and that was followed by complaints of a rotation...
I guess folks just cant be pleased.
Iv no problem with Maps that take some work to reset... I do like trinity and Im not a fan of Pizza... But Ill play no matter what ground is under my wings.
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Originally posted by Toad
Curly, perhaps my post isn't clear.
Ok, Toad, thanks. But, isn't it rare for the distance between the front and a healthy BIshop base to exceed 3 sectors? Why not up in a group and fly towards the front? You'll be a big blob on their radar and one of two things will happen: 1) You will be intercepted or 2) You won't be and you'lll be over one of their bases. In either event, you'll be in the type of fight you like. Now Lazs, well, he'll have to locate a prairie dog town to find his favorite fight. :)
curly
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Originally posted by Grimm
Boy some of you guys must be spoiled.....
We now have complaints of maps taking upwards of week to reset ...
I remember flying for "Years" in the Big Pork in AW... no map rotation, then finnaly we got monthly rotation and that was followed by complaints of a rotation...
I guess folks just cant be pleased.
Iv no problem with Maps that take some work to reset... I do like trinity and Im not a fan of Pizza... But Ill play no matter what ground is under my wings.
It was a time when people walked all the way from their caves to the river to get some water, but no one expect you do the same nowadays :) If there is a chance for something better, why to remember how bad it was? One of AH advantages is a map diversity, and trinity makes is less interesting. Some maps are reset too fast, some takes longer. Mechanism which can make map time more ballanced will be nice.
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As I mentioned, Curly, I know the fault is within me.
As I have gotten busier in my personal life, I have gotten more impatient in my "gaming" life.
I never did like flying 3 sectors to the fight but I tagged along to humor Rude. We finally got him into furballing and life was good. ;)
Now I find I just don't have the patience; as I drone along I hear all my other duties and obligations nagging at me.
OTOH, in the DA last night with all the whirling, swirling and shooting going on constantly, I couldn't hear anything but the sound of the guns. :D
As I said, I know it's my problem. I no longer fit the template here I think. I love the CV fights, but they never last long. Ah, well... it's just life.
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In AH the number of terrains have developed. Once upon a time we just had beta... then the SFTERR... then the modified beta AND SFTERR... then we got more and more and yet each terrain would last an entire month before resetting to another map. It was changed so that each time a terrain resets it also changes the terrain to keep the variation up.
I don't think we're being spoiled - the Trinity terrain takes so long to reset it is actually in rotation for about 3 - 3 1/2 weeks every month! This purely goes against the variation of terrains that was originally intended. Take the Uterus map for instance. This is my favourite terrain but it gets reset in under a day. Sometimes I don't get to see it for a couple of months! :(
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waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Originally posted by Revvin
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I take it Revvin likes Trinity only! :p
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Originally posted by Revvin
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Expected response from a building battler.:p
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i hate trinity map, it makes me turn off...but on the other hand im sure some love it.. but the fact is the numbers playing fall when trin is on..im not one for saying dump it in the trash, but put a 48 hr time limit on it and i will be delighted..:)
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I was looking at the Trinity map last night while climbing out. While I was looking around the map it occurs to me that the zone capital bases may be too well protected.
Added later: (I don't mind flying on Trinity. My play sessions are never long enough to ever see any map reset anyway)
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Seems to me I remember not too long ago when Pizza first came out, these same comments were expressed. Yet in the end, AHers found away to reset Pizza relatively quickly. Now another larger map comes along and instead of finding a way to reset it, people just start complaining. :(
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I have a box of kleenex ix you need it.
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It's not that I hate Trinity itself, but for the fact that it's almost always in rotation. I just like variation. Some people may want new GVs, or aircraft, I'd like either a new terrain OR
How about each terrain lasts for 5 days each before auto reset?Then we'd all get to fly our favourite terrains at least once or twice a month. I just want variation, not stuck on the same terrain whichever it might be.
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oh... now i get it... the purpose of the strat is to reset the current map so that we get the next one in line.
the fields are too far apart. If they were closer the map(s) woule allow for more gameplay choice and have something for a larger portion of the players.
failing that... adding 40-100 cv groups and ports would work but as toad says... they don't last long... suicide building battlers really get their attention fix when they human suicide into a cv 3 or four times.
lazs
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I get exasperated by some of the map whines we sometimes see, although this is a mild one by comparison. I like the realism to be there, part of which is that as members of the armed forces, we have a job to do, and rising to the challenge is part of that job. The real soldiers and airmen of WW2 did not say Waaaah, I don't like desert sand; Waaah, I don't like this Spit 1a - I want to fly a 109E today; Waaah, it's too far to Germany. They did their job and did it well. OK, so we're not in a real war, and that is quite apparent from the way the gaminess has taken hold of AH - no elaboration needed.
Part of the problem, I suspect, is that the map whiners do not fully utilise the game. Sure, in Euro daytime hours, the numbers are low and it's hard to get a strat movement going. At the other end of the numbers spectrum, you get the numerical supremacy smashdowns, with wave after wave of TYPHs bombing the crap out of a base, or waves of B17/ju88/LANC/110/P38/P47/P51 performing suicide runs to the CV, until eventually, they get it.
Air to air combat is OK as a means to an end, but for me it's never been an end in itself - except maybe in my first 3 months in flightsimdom. Much more fun are the well planned stealth missions - groups of jabo operating under radar cover to hit a vehicle base perhaps, so that a two pronged assault can be launched on a strategically important airfield, then to attack the second team's field while they're preoccupied with the third team - that sort of thing. Working with other people. You'll often see me with danglies on my plane. I used to be satisfied with straight air to air, but now (and nopoop will hate me for saying this) I've moved on to better things. :D As of about 4¾ years ago, actually.
If more people were to work as a team with realistic goals in the service of their virtual country, the arena would be a better place. But too many people are simply looking for an exchange of lead, or seek personal glorification and/or pride of place on the scoreboard, or the gratification from an instant fix.
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So if I fly like you I’ll have more fun? I wish I would have known that earlier. My game ID is the same as my BBS. My login ID is “titleist”. I’ll call HTC and let them know you will be picking up my subscription.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by JB42
Seems to me I remember not too long ago when Pizza first came out, these same comments were expressed. Yet in the end, AHers found away to reset Pizza relatively quickly. Now another larger map comes along and instead of finding a way to reset it, people just start complaining. :(
You are correct sir! All of these same arguments were floating around when pizza map first came out, now Pizza rarely lasts more then 48 hours. The Trinity map forces your country to fight an organized two front startegic battle which is a rarity, stay the hell out of furball traps, which is more then a rarity, and shut down tank town, which will have "sweetheartbags Low" dweebs howling at the top of their virtual lungs.
I like Trinity because you can almost always find whatever kind of fight you are in the mood for: CV battle, furball, ground assault, sneak attacks etc...
My 2 Cents
RX
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Trinity is my favorite map.
Trinity lasts too long.
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and how could anyone be unhappy with a map that "forces you to fly" in a certain way or limits your choices?
lazs
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as stated above a few more ports and CV's would be very nice havent seen very many CV vs CV battles/furballs those are some of the most fun to me.:)
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IIRC NoBaddy is working on a Trin edit-one of the changes being to move the bases closer together. I can't recall where I saw the post, tho'.....and I'm feeling too lazy to search for it.
Be patient.....many of these concerns have been noted, and are being addressed.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
So if I fly like you I’ll have more fun?
I don't know you, so I can't say. But if that question were to have been put to be by some gangbanging, scorewhoring tard, my reply would have been along the lines of Probably not, but I know I have MUCH more fun flying like me than I would have if I were to fly like you.
Lazs - and how could anyone be unhappy with a map that "forces you to fly" in a certain way or limits your choices?
A year or so ago, you were all for freedom of choice in this game, a lot of guys having fun etc... - same thing for Mr. Toad, but I have noticed you coming round to my point of view more and more. By which I mean that you have begun to see the problems when everyone is allowed to do exactly as he likes. Even you have seen your air to air combat ruined by the actions of some. I don't see war as having to be tailored for the benefits of the servicemen. Having a difficult job (including having to fly a plane you don't necessarily like) for me is part of the challenge. That's why I would not be averse to an RPS, even though I hate the early war crap! But hey - war is a duty, not a recreation. But some people want only selective realism.
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bearing in mind that I am not a fan of MA-flying generally...
I actually prefer Trinity to most terrains I've seen in the MA because it does allow buffs better chances to go and do useful things - it'd be even better if target hardnesses were raised so that buffs were more vital for knocking strat targets down, and if the rebuild times were slower (it's rather dweeby and very unsatisfying that a target can rebuild well before you've managed to rtb!)
I still can't fly "MA-style" buffing well, buttrinity, even as is,doesallow me to fly more the wayI'm happy doing than most terrains I've seen in the past.
If only we had Otto gunners, so flippin' fighter pilots couldnt get ridiculously easy kills when we're in the bombsight. They get multiple chances to accomplish their objective, whilst weo nly get one to achieve ours, unless we're lucky;and in real life ourgunners would be keepingasharplookoutover target, not going to sleep! Time to take the fighter-side out of the kindergarten and bring it up to something a tad more realistic, methinks.
Esme
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Originally posted by Replicant
I don't think we're being spoiled - the Trinity terrain takes so long to reset it is actually in rotation for about 3 - 3 1/2 weeks every month! This purely goes against the variation of terrains that was originally intended. Take the Uterus map for instance. This is my favourite terrain but it gets reset in under a day. Sometimes I don't get to see it for a couple of months! :(
Nexx...
Could it be that Trinity doesn't take to much to reset and instead the smaller terrains take too little :confused:
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Originally posted by beet1e
If more people were to work as a team with realistic goals in the service of their virtual country, the arena would be a better place. But too many people are simply looking for an exchange of lead, or seek personal glorification and/or pride of place on the scoreboard, or the gratification from an instant fix.
I read this.
Then I read it again.
Does the last sentence say that "too many people" won't play as "team players"?
Where was that on terms of service?
All laughing aside, I know the problem is in my approach to the game.
If everyone else is having fun, that's cool with me. I just find Trinity too limiting regarding the things I like to do. The small gas tank planes lose a lot of effectiveness on big spread out field maps and that gets worse when some "team" player porks the fuel at the FEBA. That's fine, just realize it does have a great effect on what you can fly to the fight; in other words, it sort of limits the planeset with a late war bias.
Same with the CV's. CV's CAN get you close enough to use some early war stuff.. but of course the CV is pretty easily sunk.
So, as I said, it just limits the things I like to do too much for my present patience level. Been having more actual fun in the DA...... but maybe that's just me.
Even tried the CT last night. Fairly even sides, bout 10 & 10. So I jump in and ....... most everybody's up at 20k. :D
Yeah...... the DA........ that's the ticket.
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Does the last sentence say that "too many people" won't play as "team players"?
Where was that on terms of service?
All laughing aside, I know the problem is in my approach to the game.
Mr. Toad! OK, I could post links to where you say no-one is having fun in the MA any more... want me to do that? I'm not a "told-you-so" kind of guy, but if needs must... You know I never forget anything that was said, don't you?
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Yeah, post 'em.
I believe I said I wasn't enjoying it as much but that I realized it was a personal problem.
Go ahead.... test my memory.
If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. :D
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No, you said nobody is having fun in the MA any more...
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/toad01.jpg)
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:D
Uh, yeah... I did say that.
And you've gotta be familiar enough with sarcasm to see it there, even though I disguised it with the Yogi Berra quote.
So, find better evidence.
Unless you can't recognize sarcasm at all.
Toodle-pip until you can do better than that!
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And funny enough, I do remember having good times with 600 logged on but that was before Trinity ruled the arena.
Come to think of it... I don't think I've seen 600 on Trinity since a week or two after it's intro. But that could be Spring coming on too, or some other reason.
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No! No winkling out of it, Mr. Toad. But don't feel bad! I'm not going to say "told-u-so". I could quote Lazs (several posts) who said similar, but I'll leave that till tomorrow.
Toodle-Pip! Tomato says Hi. :)
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Originally posted by JB42
Seems to me I remember not too long ago when Pizza first came out, these same comments were expressed. Yet in the end, AHers found away to reset Pizza relatively quickly. Now another larger map comes along and instead of finding a way to reset it, people just start complaining. :(
Pizza never took more than 2-3 days to reset. Just seemed longer when it was first released because it was only map in rotation for about a month.
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Troll away Beet1e, I'm not biting.
I know you're not that......... unenlightened.
Hi to Tomato as well!
Pip-Toodle!
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Originally posted by beet1e
I've moved on to better things. :D As of about 4¾ years ago, actually.
If more people were to work as a team with realistic goals in the service of their virtual country, the arena would be a better place. But too many people are simply looking for an exchange of lead, or seek personal glorification and/or pride of place on the scoreboard, or the gratification from an instant fix.
Oh hell Toad, I'll bite.
Beet1e EVEN when you venture into the world of air to air, you pick a G10....
Now being a member in good standing of the rolleyes haters club I won't add the cute little smiley. But let's make believe it comes right after G10...k ??
Forgive me, but from my way of looking at things thats kinda silly. Personally flying a G10, the "king" of pickers is a great time waster. I mean Grun's film was cool, he worked it, but would I enjoy it ?? Yea, once or twice, maybe a few times. I would add your other "fav" the Jug to that category. But I'd add the Jug takes alot more patience and dedication.
Done that in 190's. Used to do it every other tour.
When I had done that for a tour all I wanted to do when it was over was get in a great fight, get the juices flowing, set the hair on fire..
I would surmise from seeing the vast majority of oldtimers that STILL fly, it is the "fight" is what keeps them goin, the juices flowin.
Not the map conquest, not killing buildings for the greater good of the Map reset..
Sooner or later pilots either realize the continual war is silly and quit, or go back to the "fight" and realize it's the essence of what brought them to flight sims in the first place.
When I first came online way back when, I wanted to shoot "real" people down, not take bases.
I still do.
Trinitys fields are too far apart.
Grab a midwar plane, don't get 18k of altitude and head in and find the fight, do the best you can..
Flyin that way, you can always do better, keeps your hair short, and you might find a nose print on your moniter from time to time..
I fly for the nose prints..
To hell with the silly war.
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remember when trinity first arrived everyone loved it...teamplaying means everyone works together to focus on the goal. the goal in this case being getting all the bases...the winner is the one most effective at this...and being effective generaly in this case means doing mindless jabo followed by 3 or 4 c47 drops and so on...of course since i dont fly MA this is all just theorising...
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There is a problem that is evident to me as a "strat-fiend" and playing on infinitrinity.
I feel as if I can never have an telling impact upon the game either at a personal level or as part of a larger team that can lead to a victory (reset). Of course, that is if you discount not logging on at all. Your outcome as a strat player is geographically ordained at the throw of the virtual server dice. No matter how mightily I struggle, I know that I am wasting my virtual time pursuing a different outcome. I find this depressing, boring, frustrating and lots of other words that are the opposite of fun.
Three squaddies left the game last month. Newbies? No! They were long time players. Six more are seriously discussing it. No newbs there either. I don't know if this is reflected anywhere else, but if it is, then there is a problem. HT no doubt look at the player numbers on a continuing basis. If it is seen as a threat they will act. If not, then the loss of these players will leave the same impression as a hand being withdrawn from a bucket of water. They are leaving because they cannot extract the enjoyment from the game that they currently need to sustain their interest.
For a list of reasons which are fairly apparent to the strat minded, it is easy for the determined strattie to defend the north and the west lands on Trinity. The south land is plagued by having a couple of critical bases, that once gone, give multi-attacking opportunities to invaders. The best defence becomes scorched-earth and this of course niggles the furballers who are directly affected by the path that the stratties decide upon.
Interestingly, removing a couple of gv spawns could lead to a quicker reset (though it is the poor southerners that wear it again). Remove the spawn A30 to A214. That way the two northern countries have the temptation to pound each other markedly reduced, which means they can be pound the poor old south more.
Remove the strategic spawns out of tank town. This would provide an instant solution for one of the most common of complaints aired, the capture of all vbases there by one side. Once tank town becomes strategically worth zip, then the gv junkies can fight in peace (sic).
The mountains are fulfilling their role as dividers of effort and provide direction for attack momentum well. More CV's just means that coastal bases will get hit early and hard to remove them as a strategic factor. This will delay the map turnover time by a few more hours - that's it.
To "rotate" this map on a reasonable time basis provides the best solution for those who hate it as well as those who love it.
You can tweak the map to try to achieve this outcome, but run the risk of alienating those who like the map.
You can add a few lines of code to the server programming:
T = 0
If T= T+430200 then print "Host: the server will reset in 30 minutes!"
If T= T+432000 then reset
If rooks% > knights% > bishops% then rooks perks = perks+25
etc etc.
(example format only please do not bother posting "real" code)
You can do like Fariz has suggested, start gathering together an alliance of the strat players to overwhelm the map.
All in all, the easiest and fairest option to me seems to lie in the second choice. In fact there would be some major fun/panic in the last hour or so trying to gain/hold ground. Missions, sneaks, furballs - something for everyone.
Regards to all.
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Trinity and pizza map are both divided into 3 sections,
However pizza has 3 country,s in each section = more fronts.
If trinity where set up this way it would reset faster and
be more enjoyable. my 2 cents :p
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Originally posted by cobia38
Trinity and pizza map are both divided into 3 sections,
However pizza has 3 country,s in each section = more fronts.
If trinity where set up this way it would reset faster and
be more enjoyable. my 2 cents :p
It's also those mountains that divide each side that makes the map take so long to reset. The mountains are effective barriers to deter attacks.
ack-ack
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Nopoop, If you would check my stats for tour 39, you will see that I did most in the F6F and F4U. Also various P47 and 190 aircraft - and the P38, though mostly the P38 for jabo. Got quite a few kills in it though. Plus GVs etc. I've tried out the 109G10, but it's not well suited to me, or I to it. But sometimes you need a fast plane to get out of trouble. When you fly, there might be a lot more people online, and you can fly in a large group. Very different situation while America sleeps. :)
Mr. Toad! Pip-Toodle sounds like a hello greeting - lol. :D
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Good post Dantoo!
I can't say any of our squad haven't quit over it tho. I just don't fly if I'm bored or frustrated with the game as that makes me worse if I did fly!
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beetle said...."A year or so ago, you were all for freedom of choice in this game, a lot of guys having fun etc... - same thing for Mr. Toad, but I have noticed you coming round to my point of view more and more. By which I mean that you have begun to see the problems when everyone is allowed to do exactly as he likes. "
no.... again.. you have failed to get the most rudimentary points of my posts.... If you put the fields closer together and/or add a few dozen ports and cv's.... then you will have more choice..... not less. the building battlers can still do whatever they want and the air combat guys won't have to go so far to find a decent fight. the more choice the better so far as gameplay.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
no.... again.. you have failed to get the most rudimentary points of my posts.... If you put the fields closer together and/or add a few dozen ports and cv's.... then you will have more choice..... not less.
Oh so dramatic! Lazs, you're often whining about how the game should be played. Your whines always take the form of wanting the game tailored to how you want to play. I have been looking over some of your old threads. - Organization ruining the MA (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43614) LOL! You cannot be serious! A group of guys choose to organise themselves, and that "ruins" your game? Hehe, you got short shrift in THAT thread! :p I loved Hitech's comment near the top of that thread: "I just vew laz as the balance to the realism fanatics. Neither will get there full wish but both have to be considered". ROFL!!!!
- will we still be at the mercy of the fluffers in 1.10? (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54230) Ah yes, your usual hobbyhorse! :D I would have thought that old nag would have been put out to pasture by now! You really got an arse kicking in this thread, and things got so bad that Pyro had to lock it. :eek:
It seems that you're all for choice, but only when it's your choice, and a choice that models the game in YOUR image. If you think choice is such a great thing, why do you get so lathered up when other guys make the choice to get organised, or make the choice to fly buffs?
The remark to which I was alluding originally was this one, buried deep in a thread posted by Nopoop. (Same thread as the one in which Mr. Toad contradicts himself, as described further up this thread) I'll reproduce your comment here.
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/lazswhining.jpg)
Dare I say it? Sounds like a lot of guys having fun! :D
URL for page 2 of this thread (with Lazs's whine on it) can be found here (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74773&perpage=50&highlight=observation&pagenumber=2).
Toodle-Pip
;)
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Is there any sentient being that read the post I made quoted by Beet1e as anything other than total sarcasm?
Just curious. I don't see how it can be taken as anything else but apparently Beet1e is continuing to troll or I'm forced towards a conclusion about his sentience.
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Originally posted by Toad
Troll away Beet1e, I'm not biting.
Sure about that?
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Just a thought, maybe if you guys didnt steam roll the smaller maps so fast then Trinity wouldnt come back as fast.
Personally I like Trinity, sure it has high mountains but Pizza has deep canyons, So What.
It's all air above the ground thats where we live.
Shut Up And Fly (love that quote)
JustJim
<>
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It's rare that someone continues a troll when the Warden has already issued the ticket for the violation.
So..... maybe it is a "sentience" thing, one way or the other. :D
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geeze beetle... you have a real problem sticking to the point... you claim that I want to limit choice and then point to all the threads where I wanted INCREASED choice...
taken with how you are responding to toad... I would say that you have some sort of mental dislexia or... you are being untruthful? I kinda think that maybe tho... what is really happening... is that you are forming responses without reading what either I or anyone else you respond to has said... sorta like a speech.
I am consitent.. I don't feel that I should be able to spoil the fun of many with very little effort... I don't think anyone should be able to. suiciding into a building or fuel takes little talent but has a huge affect.. I was serious in asking tho about the reasons people would do it.
lazs
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Mr. Toad. :) Ah yes, the current vogue word, "sentience". Probably derived from the French verb sentir, to feel.
You did not put a smiley on that "nobody's having fun in the MA any more" post, so it is disqualified as sarcasm. Hell, even Mini D will use a smiley/rolleyes when he's being facetious.
Lazs. You were not campaigning for increased choice in those threads. Oh wait you were - increased choice for YOU. Like I said, you don't like it when a group of guys exercise their freedom of choice to get organised. You don't like it when another group of guys exercise their freedom of choice to fly buffs, and maybe take out your fuel or your FH. You support moves to REDUCE these choices. You have in the past even suggested that jabos should be perked. That means that PP have to be earned - the jabos can't be flown from Day 1. Again, this is a REDUCTION in choice for those people of a mind to do it. No wonder you got your arse paddled in those threads. Ripsnort even bailed out, frustrated with, as he put it, your ME ME ME attitude.
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A Yogi Berra-ism trumps an emoticon by a power ratio of 10 to 1.
So, you're wrong again. :p
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old ground beetle.. but... if someone can limit the choices of many... he should have to put a lot of effort into it.. it shouldn't be easy... perking bombs for jabo makes it a little harder since the person has to have some small amount of talent... you advocate the totally talentless ruining the fun of many with ease if you advocate easy bombing..
Also.. I think I did pretty good in the fluff thread.. the drone herders were actually reigned in a little after that too. It will never stop the truly attention staved but at least lets make em work for it.
And... what is wrong with more choices for me... or anyone for that matter? Infinity has a very gamey, silly tank town but I have no problem with it... I don't use it at all and I am glad the gv guys have the choice.
infinity is about lack of gameplay choice.. I have heard that it may get some fixes so that more people can enjoy the game when it is on... nothing for you to get excited about.
and... a burglars gun isn't the problem... the burglar and what he may do with it is.. even tho very few burglars in the U.S. are armed and, unlike the uk... our burglars don't hit hot (occupied) houses... they fear being shot.
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
A Yogi Berra-ism trumps an emoticon by a power ratio of 10 to 1.
So, you're wrong again. :p
Nope, you said what you said, and you were very careful about what you said. :p
I don't think I read that vorticon statement, as he's on my ignore list - at his own request I believe - lol.
I don't know about this Yogi-Berra business, but I am familiar with the expression "moving the goalposts around during the game". In fact it popped into my head as I read your rebuttal. Funny that! I wonder why that could have been.
:confused: ;) :p :D You're starting to sound like John McEnroe, swearing on court at Wimbledon. And then, when awarded a code violation, he says "I was talking to myself!". - LOL
Lazs, you get shot down on the BBS whenever you advance moves which would limit the choices of OTHERS. You seem to get willied with people duffing the fighter hangars because that limits YOUR choice of fields from which to fly. I keep telling you. The way forward is to learn to jabo, and advance your front line, or at least push the enemy back. What use is air to air combat on its own? What's the use of having air support, if there's nothing to support? If all you want is two bases, with maybe a 10K air start on your side, ask HTC to create a Lazs arena. I wonder how many people would want to fly in that. It would probably end up like the WB HA.
But yes I agree - old ground. VERY old ground. Some things never change, and you're one of them. :D lol
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Well, Beet1e...... you've got to be trolling. No one is that unenlightened. Not even you.
I'll let that entire clipped post stand. I'm sure anyone bothering to read this far has already realized what I truly said, particularly if the actually went to that thread and read my post in the context/flow of the thread.
:p <- Emoticon just for you.
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yep... he intentionally is not getting it. beetle... if everyone played exactly like you want them to and, assuming 50% or so could stay awake while doing so, trinity would still be boring and in the rotation too often.
Get it now?
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
If all you want is two bases, with maybe a 10K air start on your side, ask HTC to create a Lazs arena. I wonder how many people would want to fly in that. :D lol
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lmao , about 4 maybe 6 max. It would be Humpy the Wonder Pooch a.k.a. Liz and a couple of the "You shoot me down then I`ll shoot you down" for lunch bunch in the sister squad. Even then they wouldn`t fly in it. Within 2 days they would whine each other to death . The DA is there and they won`t use it. Seems Liz wants the MA turned into an arcade game. I wouldn`t hold my breath though.:rolleyes:
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I have to agree with my CO earlier.
these same "Type" of complaints were around when the akdesert map came out. add to that the horrible color scheme in the original release of it.
here you say the bases are too far apart. hmmmm... why is it whenever i am online i can find a furball less than 1 sector away all the time?
are you talking about bases being far apart because of the mountains inbetween some bases? those are part of the countries "front". it should take a concerted "team" effort to get across these and into emeny territory.
all things said.. i LOVE trinity. it is the most beautiful map we have. the terrain is lovely to look at. the clipboard is the best around. the layout has something for everyone.
lets just compare it to ndisles. there all bases are 0.0k basically... thats real fun :rolleyes:
how about sfma..... the layout gives the northern countries the advantage (the south country has an alt dis-advantage the whole time.
baltic.... everyone and their mother knows every detail about it. the spawn campers @ A1 piss everyone off.
mindanao.... the closest thing to trinity there is. beautiful rolling hills and terrain. layout is kind of hosed with the "arm" off to the west.
akdesert... ugly as a zit on your arse. vehicles can run across the map from hangars 5 sectors away (so you cant kill them).
yes these are negative comments about each map. this is what i have listened to in the past year and 4 months about each. there are positives for each map too .... just like trinity, but it seems you all just want to fly on these old tiny stale maps.
oh well my 2¢ (am i the only 1 who knos how to put the "¢" symbol in? :D)
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Generalismo Bettle...
I believe there is still the matter of a $14.95 subscription in order for my services in your army of righteous building battling. I expect payment be made immediately or I release the collector:
(http://www.xenafan.com/movies/bod/images/johnny05.jpg)
I’ve been down that path and oddly enough a yogism strikes me. “When you see a fork in the road, take it”
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Originally posted by lazs2
yep... he intentionally is not getting it. beetle... if everyone played exactly like you want them to and, assuming 50% or so could stay awake while doing so, trinity would still be boring and in the rotation too often.
Get it now?
lazs
No, I do not. Geez, Lazs. We've got your squaddie nopoop whining about slow map rotation in that other thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86169) that he started, and now I've got you complaining that map rotation back to Trinity would be too fast!
You BK guys whine about being stuck on a certain map, but you do nothing to hasten map rotation. Then you whine about people who do - fluffs, as you call them, and generally pour scorn on folks who do anything other than air to air combat. Then, when someone points out what you could do to hasten map rotation, you whine because you don't want to get involved with that, and despise those that do. Still, both you and Nopoop come from CA - good wine country.
Maybe you think strat is boring, but I don't think it is. I enjoy the fights that arise out of efforts to capture/defend a base. Seems to me you're interested only in "manufactured" fights, ie. furballing.
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Beet1e, it may just be that the current strat model is just as goofy and "porked" for some folks' gameplay as all the others that have gone before.
When:
1. A very small group of folks can pork the fuel at every frontline base in a relatively short amount of time
and
2. It takes 7 slooooooow trips in a C-47 or an M3 to bring base fuel from 25% to 50% and not everyone has hours or even ONE hour to play on a given evening
and
3. 25% fuel isn't much flying time for at least half the planeset
and
4. Some folks enjoy the early war/small gas tank planes far more than the later aircraft
then some folks may have a legitimate point. Even if you personally don't percieve it.
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Originally posted by Toad
Beet1e, it may just be that the current strat model is just as goofy and "porked" for some folks' gameplay as all the others that have gone before.
When:
1. A very small group of folks can pork the fuel at every frontline base in a relatively short amount of time
and
2. It takes 7 slooooooow trips in a C-47 or an M3 to bring base fuel from 25% to 50% and not everyone has hours or even ONE hour to play on a given evening
and
3. 25% fuel isn't much flying time for at least half the planeset
and
4. Some folks enjoy the early war/small gas tank planes far more than the later aircraft
then some folks may have a legitimate point. Even if you personally don't percieve it.
Oh OK. Now I get it. You want those nasty fuel porkers to fly the way you want, ie not pork the fuel. I never saw that in the AH rule book. Never even saw the rule book! :D
Why don't all the furballers simply go to the DA to play? No strategy in there... but no, they insist on playing in the strat-packed MA, but then whine about the strat. :confused:
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Nice try.
I don't care if people want to pork fuel. See, that's the almighty strat and I can live with it.
But when one guy can make two or three passes and damage the fuel to the point that it takes 7 sorties of about 15 minutes each to get the fuel just back up to 50%, I think the almight strat is way out of "balance".
You think that one guy should be able to have that much effect?
IMO, either it should be harder (take more of your "team effort") to pork the fuel down below 50% OR it should be easier (take less of a "team effort") to resupply the fuel back up to 50%.
If you disagree, how about we implement this: One guy in a jabo can eliminate all but the M3 and the M16 GV's at a base until seven other guys resupply the GV base which gives back the Panzer and the Osti, then seven more resupply sorties and the Tiger is back?
Sounds right to you, I bet. ;)
Heck, why not make it 400 resupply sorties for fuel? Has about as much probability as someone flying 7 goons in, using up his entire night's playing time.
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OH, btw... I think I've played far more in the DA lately than in the MA. It's just much more fun for me. But I have no problem with those that disagree with my assessment. It's personal preference after all.
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What was the expression you once used, Mr. Toad? I believe it was "stunning reversal".
IMO, either it should be harder (take more of your "team effort") to pork the fuel down below 50% OR it should be easier (take less of a "team effort") to resupply the fuel back up to 50%.
Ah yes, the old "should be" syndrome. I remember old Lazs objecting to my inferences about how AH should be played, and then (about a year later) was whining about how some organised guys were "ruining the gameplay" for him. (As always, links available upon request :D)
But what's this latest post from Mr. Toad... two "should be"s in the same sentence. :eek:
Remember back to those golden days, when you were all for laissez faire? Times they are a-changing! Or should your comments above had had a sprinkling of :) and/or ;) ??? Because it's not so long ago you said this:
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/tbs.jpg)
I guess you're finding the current arena set up a little scary, disappointing, or "unfair". Or maybe you would like a nanny to give those naughty fuel porkers a spanking. :D:D:D
ROFL
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no beetle... he is saying that those nasty fuel porkers shouldn't have such a huge effect on other peoples gameplay with so little effort and talent involved. seems simple enough to me. Now... why are you advocating ruining the resuply guys fun?
let's say that if a person flew a goon one sector and dropped on any friendly field.... he would then resupply every friendly field with full fuel... you would say that one guy was having too much effect on a lot of players working for strat wouldn't you? or would that be fine with you?
lazs
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Beetle, get a hobby.
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beetle could use a hobby but.... I sure hope that jakal doesn't own a dog. It would explain too much.
lazs
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Think about it Beet1e.
Low fuel severely restricts the big piece of the planeset that has small gas tanks, ie: the early war stuff.
Low fuel does not affect all aircraft (and thus all players) in a similar fashion, thus it severely restricts choice.
It absoulutely does not enchance freedom of choice within the planeset. To the contrary, it limits plane choice and this limitation is exacerbated by the longer distances between bases in Trinity.
I see my position now entirely consistent with what I said then.
Have Trinity. Have strat. Don't let one particular strat feature make a large part of the planeset nearly unusable. That's freedom of choice.
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Originally posted by Fariz
Afraid couple more trinity rotations and my squad will just stop to exist. People reject to fly this one. Really not good for strat players, at least with 32 people squad limmiter as it is now.
The problem with Trinity is that there aren't enough carrier groups.
Carriers can shorten the distances between fights.
Carriers can shorten the war by allowing invasions of bases from shorter distances.
As for the other discussions in this thread, you can't pork a carrier's fuel supply without taking the whole thing down. FM2s, Zekes, and Seafires for everybody!
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Originally posted by lazs2
beetle could use a hobby but.... I sure hope that jakal doesn't own a dog. It would explain too much.
lazs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to Humpy the Wonder Pooch a.k.a. Liz training session #20.
Here boy. Now sit. Roll over. Speak.....naw strike that, carpet trainings next.:D Now play dead! Good booooy. Your doing great so far. It must be the rolled up news paper. lmao
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ROFLMAO!!!! You guys are priceless. :D
Next, you'll be advocating against the effect that .50 cals have when fired into your asses. After all, having your elevator shot off kind of restricts your choices. And we can't have that, now, can we? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Wake up, guys! Get a freaking grip! The whole point of an aerial attack is to destroy targets, thereby limiting options available to the enemy. You now saying this is "unfair"? Geez, I've seen everything now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Whatever next? I guess you'll be calling for bombs filled with cotton wool, so that your "choices" won't be limited by fluffs/jabos. Or calling for indestructible fighter hangars, so that your choice of fighters will be un limited. Or calling for indestructible fuel tanks, so that your choice of fuel load out will never be affected.
You guys still whining because enemy action reduces your "choices"? Well of course it does! That's the whole idea!!!
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Is strat meant to eliminate the early war planes? (Note that it only has this effect on Trinity and to a lesser extent on Pizza.)
Why spend time programming them then?
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LOL Mr. Toad!
Is strat meant to eliminate the early war planes? (Note that it only has this effect on Trinity and to a lesser extent on Pizza.)
Why spend time programming them then?
Time for you to read your own sig block again!
Sounds to me you want choices, but only your choices. When the other guy begins to steal a march by hitting your strat targets, this is deemed to be unfair!!!
LOL - What bullshit!!! Toad - I thought you were a man! :D
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Originally posted by beet1e
ROFLMAO!!!! You guys are priceless. :D
Whatever next? I guess you'll be calling for bombs filled with cotton wool, so that your "choices" won't be limited by fluffs/jabos. Or calling for indestructible fighter hangars, so that your choice of fighters will be un limited. Or calling for indestructible fuel tanks, so that your choice of fuel load out will never be affected.
You guys still whining because enemy action reduces your "choices"? Well of course it does! That's the whole idea!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------Pssssttt beetle, don`t look now , but that has all been asked for in prevoius threads with the exception of the cotton wool Boomers.
:eek:
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I'm starting to have some thoughts about you too... but I don't do ad hominem.
So, let's see.... wanting the whole planeset to be usefully available to all players somehow conflicts with my sig block?
Seems to me your ideal situation limits the planeset. Which, of course, would be contrary to my sig block.
I want all the planes in the hangar to be useful. That isn't the situation on Trinity. It's not really a problem on the other maps. Think about that. You haven't addressed it so far.
And, consider this... if the "7 goons to up the fuel 25%", why isn't it a good idea on hangars? You know... hangar gets knocked down it takes 7 goons to make 25% of the planeset available, 7 more goons to get 50% available and so on.
Why isn't that a good "strat" idea? Why didn't HTC use the philosophy throughout the strat system?
The fuel/big map/early war plane problem is only on this map. That's what needs fixing, that's the point and that's what you continue to ignore.
As usual.
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Originally posted by Toad
I want all the planes in the hangar to be useful. That isn't the situation on Trinity. It's not really a problem on the other maps. Think about that. You haven't addressed it so far.
Toad...
Meybe he hasn't...but, I'm trying to :).
Seriously, I'm adding 6 fields to the 2 forward zones of each country (1 being a CV in each). Why just 18 fields? Because that puts the terrain to the hard coded field limit. Additionally, I'm changing a couple of gv fields per zone to medium airfields. This should actually bring the terrain closer to what I envisioned when I started it.
BTW, as it is now...Trinity has been taking only a little more time to reset than I expected. Two weeks was about what I wanted and the last time I talked to HT, the max time it had been up was just under 2 1/2 weeks. I am hoping that the closer airfields will bring it to 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. Guess what? I have the opposite view of most of the folks complaining about 'Infinity', I think the other terrains are too EASY to reset. Personally, I think 2 or 3 resets in less than 24 hours is too much. Different strokes for different folks :).
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I love Trinity map..anyone who says different needs to get a life..
I LOVE TRINITY!!!!
PS.. Beetlle is amoron who shows who he ignores..what a cuddlinghunk..are you in kindergarten?
Get a Life.... Get off my Jock and tell yo bich to coem here
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NB,
Good work on this map... :) Its without a doubt in my opinion the best map we have.
I look forward to the changes.
Iv been following this and Im somewhere in between....
It has made me think a bit about the fuel porking thing.
Right now, after reading this, I think the fuel is too easy to destroy. It takes little to bring it down and alot to bring it back up.
Often when you do capture a base, the fuel is messed up and it takes alot of resupply for the Strat guys too. Normaly if its a well planned base capture, fuel doesnt need to be taken down.
Im thinking that maybe the Fuel cells should be designed a little differently. Perhaps they should be set inside concrete bunkers. This way they cant be straffed by aircraft very easily, since it would require coming straight down on them. Also it could sheild them from near hits. The best way would a direct bomb hit from directly above.
At the same time, Instead of each one taking down the feild by 25%, more should be added and take it down by 10%
Just a thought. I know its not perfect for everyone, but it might be a move toward a better solution...
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Originally posted by Grimm
Right now, after reading this, I think the fuel is too easy to destroy. It takes little to bring it down and alot to bring it back up.
Often when you do capture a base, the fuel is messed up and it takes alot of resupply for the Strat guys too. Normaly if its a well planned base capture, fuel doesnt need to be taken down.
Im thinking that maybe the Fuel cells should be designed a little differently. Perhaps they should be set inside concrete bunkers. This way they cant be straffed by aircraft very easily, since it would require coming straight down on them. Also it could sheild them from near hits. The best way would a direct bomb hit from directly above.
At the same time, Instead of each one taking down the feild by 25%, more should be added and take it down by 10%
Just a thought. I know its not perfect for everyone, but it might be a move toward a better solution...
Actually, redoing the fuel bunkers would be a lot harder than just lowering the number of supply runs to resupply a base. I'm thinking about 3 or 4 trips to bring it from 25% to 100% would be about right. I have thought for a while that HT went a bit overboard when everyone was complaining about how easy it was to resupply stuff. Seems a bit silly that it takes one guys and one bomb 10 minutes to reduce a field's fuel by 25%. Then it takes 7 guys 10 minutes each to rebuild it.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
BTW, as it is now...Trinity has been taking only a little more time to reset than I expected.
First of all, Thanks again!
Don't misunderstand. I really don't care WHICH map is in the rotation if the map combined with the current strat model doesn't unduly penalize a part of the planeset.
In this case, as I mentioned, the early war birds are hammered by fuel going down on a big, spread out map.
Fix that, and I'll play this map the same way I play the others.
:D I'll totally ignore the Generalissimo COLEOPTERA CHRYSOMELIDAE and just fly my slow old planes around shooting at other planes.
That's about all it takes to make me happy.
I think the 90 plane raids are boring, but I always try to avoid both ends of those.]
Thanks!
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Seems a bit silly that it takes one guys and one bomb 10 minutes to reduce a field's fuel by 25%. Then it takes 7 guys 10 minutes each to rebuild it.
THANK YOU! Sanity!
As I said, I don't care about resets or what map we're on..... heck, I played the one beta map for months having the time of my life.
Just give us a sane system that allows everybody to do their own thing.
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Hehe, Mr. Toad. FWIW I sort of agree that those no-skill fuel suicide fuel porkage flights are screwing things up. But I will never let you forget how you championed the cause for a rules free, laissez faire, no-holds-barred game, and pooh-poohed me at any suggestion of a more structured game. I had just come back from that Bridge course, remember? And you were full of it. But now, we have you clamouring for this change and that change. You're making it sound like you're for more choices, but really you want to lessen the impact of the gamey suicide dweebs. I agree, that would be a good thing. Maybe the suicide fuel porkers will give up, and we will have a er... more structured game. But don't forget what you said on 11-23-2002 at 10:56pm. I shall remind you of it from time to time. What goes around comes around, me old china. :D
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Two words Beet1e: BS.
On THIS PARTICULAR MAP the way the fuel/strat is set is simply a mistake. It severely penalizes the short range planes which happens to be a signficant part of the planeset and about ALL of the early war set. It results in LESS choice for all players and almost NO choice for "early war" afficianados.
It's just a mistake and it looks like it'll be corrected now. Quite similar to a mistake in an FM or anything else.
NoBaddy sees it, so it doesn't matter if YOU do or not. The fix will clearly result in MORE CHOICE. :D :D :D
So, go ahead and claim victory as you fade away in defeat. :D It won't be anything regular BBS readers haven't seen before.
Because it's now obvious that you've lost the point in this thread. See you next match.
Thanks again, NB!
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Originally posted by Toad
Because it's now obvious that you've lost the point in this thread.
Errrm, no... This is Fariz's thread, and he opened it by saying Afraid couple more trinity rotations and my squad will just stop to exist. People reject to fly this one. Really not good for strat players, at least with 32 people squad limmiter as it is now.
Note the following points about Fariz's post: - NO mention of fuel
- NO mention of early war planes.
- NO mention of goon/M3 resupply missions.
- NO mention of making things nice for the air to air combat guys
- Fariz was saying that the strat guys were the ones affected by Trinity. Well guess what? Last time I looked, I was a strat guy, and I wasn't complaining. Lazs was complaining, but he's not a strat guy!
Sounds like someone took the thread a little off topic! And it wasn't me. So, Mr. Toad, Suck on this flag for a while. Toodle-Pipperooni!
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/bsflag.gif)
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I smell lot of french words ...
:D
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Like to see each fuel tank take 2k bombs to kill. Also like to see 1 goon = 25% fuel. Like to see minimum on a field be 50%. WTG NB sounds great, can't wait to see it. Agree with Toad, Laz and Nopoop. Beet1e get a life...
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Originally posted by BNM
Agree with Toad, Laz and Nopoop. Beet1e get a life...
ROFL! But of course. I mean, how else could it be? :D All jolly yanks, sticking together... :p
Funny how the thread originator should say "Really not good for strat players", and yet the three people you're siding with have dominated the thread, but are amongst the most vociferous anti-strat dudes in the game. Did someone say something about losing the point of the thread?
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That's it beet1e, duck and cover, throw sh t up in the air as you retreat claiming victory. :D
As I said, it's nothing we all haven't seen here before.
Take a look at your discussion with me here. That's what counts.
And what REALLY counts is that NB is making changes to Trinity that are going to make it the approximate strategic equal of the other maps rather than leaving it as the aberration in the set.
The fuel porking is going to be fixed. 50% fuel makes the whole planeset useable on any map. Excellent, MORE CHOICE. So one jabo guy knocking the fuel down to 25% will be fixed by one resupply pilot bringing it up to 50%. Balance. That was a major point in your diatribe vs my point of view. Looks like you clearly lost.
Airfields on Trinity are going to be closer together now that he's adding fields and converting GV bases to airfields. A prime idea in all of Laz's various posts. Laz wins! :D
We're getting another carrier for each country. A prime idea in all of Laz's various posts. Laz wins! :D
Sorry.. I didn't see anything you were advocating get any sort of endorsement at all. Too bad! :(
NOT.
I'm quite happy. These changes should make Trinity infinitely more appealing to a large number of players.
So toodle along... and keep your BS smoke generator at full speed. Although everyone here can see through it by now.
:D
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to be fair... if it wasn't obvious... I couldn't see it. some see the obvious and hide from it tho.
What beetle is really afraid of is that if people have choice they won't play his way. they will have fun instead. He can't win.. if he get's his way then people are unhappy and he hates to hear them complain all the time... If he doesn't get his way then people are happy and don't play his game enough... he is ignored by more people.
nb... if only the first layer of fields are close then won't that just mean that one country will lose all their close fields right away and be back in the same boat... the country with the largest numbers (the real AH strat) will steamroll the close fields of the low number country. still... maybe not... worth a try... better than nothing and, as you say, there are limits to number of fields...
More CV's is good.. Is there any limit? was a great CV fight at 13 last nite for an hour.
like toad... I like the infinity terrain... no problem with it stayin up all the time... could play it for months if there were something fun to do on it. My complaint is that it is extremely unfriendly to my style of playing. I don't believe that I am alone in playing the way I do either.
lazs
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what a bunch of whining dweebs.....
don't like the MA when trinity is on.....HT gave ya more choices
CT......DA
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Hehe , Mr. Toad. I'm not a map-whiner, so I guess I win too! I look at the map, see the opportunities, and formulate a plan. I'm sure I'll like it just fine! :D Always like new maps!
Lazs - Play how you like! Not saying you have to play my way at all! But if you did, you'd be able to reset the map more quickly. :)
Nopoop doesn't want me to use the word "anomalous", so I'll use "ironic" instead. I think it is ironic that the 2-3 guys with the least interest in strat should have been the most vociferous in campaigning for er..., changes to er... strat. :D WTG Lazs, Nopoop, and Mr. Toad. I'm sure I'll like your map design.
But won't all these changes be swept away by AH2? Won't the current tweaking be akin to rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic? Speaking of AH2, I'm looking forward to AH2, which we thought was going to be delivered as a Mission Arena. I even conducted my own poll (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66960) to see who would be interested in playing in this, a strat-based arena. Almost everyone said they would - with two notable exceptions: Lazs & Nopoop - LOL! I'm working on Nopoop. Lazs may be a tougher nut to crack. ;)
Mr Toad - good to hear from you this morning - I read about bad weather sweeping through what I believe is your area. Are you OK? Property OK? Wouldn't be fair for you to have to deal with another disaster, on top of that other business.
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"More CV's is good.. Is there any limit? was a great CV fight at 13 last nite for an hour.
Yes is was Laz ... just remember that the GV dudes on the ground played an important part in keeping that fight going. ;)
I popped 11 LVTs and Whels must be popped that amount if not more. Had we not been in GVs, the field would have been overrun by LVTs and the fight would have ended.
:D
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Now that the non-strat guys have got their strat changes, fewer resupply missions will be needed. I sometimes do those missions, by goon or M3. So I am delighted that my endeavours will be receiving greater reward - with more perks, I hope!
Serious Q to Mr. Toad, Lazs, and Nopoop: Now that resupply will be much more plausible, will we be seeing Lazs upping a goon, or Nopoop driving across the desert in a M3 in order to make the best use of these strat alterations? :p
Just askin'. I mean, that was the whole point of the strat change, wasn't it? To make it possible for resupply without an excessive number of trips? Was it the excessive resupply trips you were whining about, or...
...naah, I won't even ask the next part. You're surely not expecting someone else to do your dirty work. You guys would never do that, now would you??? :D;)
I'll teach you how to drive the M3. There's no clutch, so even Americans can do it. ;) Maybe let Lazs drive the M3, and Nopoop fly the Goon.
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I'll try one more time.
I have basically no interest in "strat" by your definition. I don't care if a map gets reset, who resets it or how exciting it is to shoot fuel tanks.
My "interest" in "strat" in this particular case is simply due to the fact that a mistake was made in the implemenation of one aspect of "strat" on THIS PARTICLAR map, Trinity.
Now, the interesting (IMO) part of the planeset will no longer be singled out for undue restriction on the Trinity map ONLY.
That you don't see that problem is immaterial because NB sees it and is going to fix it.
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Seems a bit silly that it takes one guys and one bomb 10 minutes to reduce a field's fuel by 25%. Then it takes 7 guys 10 minutes each to rebuild it.
It's merely the correction of a mistake, not an argument against all strat.
As you continually ignore, none of the folks you believe are "against" strat care one whit about strat, one way or the other. Have all the strat you can eat; good for you!
Laz, Nopoop, myself and others like us simply DON'T CARE about "winning the war" and we absolutely are happy if that's what YOU like to do. We ENCOURAGE you to do what you like to do.
All we ask is that we be allowed to do the same. And, typically, that's where YOU have a problem with us. You want us "in" on the building battling strat and we don't want to play your game.
I'm looking forward to AH2 as well. I'm sort of hoping all the Generalissimos will gravitate to it and stay. ;)
The storm missed us here. I am dealing with American Family insurance on previous hail damage. Hundreds of people in this area got new roofs from their insurance company but so far, not one American Family insured home has. Go figure. Yeah, it'll probably be a class action lawsuit.
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No, again, the whole point of the correction of the fuel damage/strat mistake is in order to make the small gas tank planes more viable on Trinity.
When the fuel gets knocked down to 25%, ONE resupply will bring it back up enough to make all the planes usable. That's the point of correcting the mistake, balance. One player can pork the fuel but one player can also restore fuel. Instead of 1 pork to 7 resupply, it'll be 1 to 1. Balance. Equality.
I'll fly one goon sortie to make the entire planeset useful at a particular base; I won't fly seven.
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I'll fly one goon sortie to make the entire planeset useful at a particular base; I won't fly seven.
Well rgr that. Same here. And believe me, I know how you feel, as one who flies/drives those resupps. It WAS BS having to do 7 trips, and anyone who knows me will have heard me say "Forget the resupp. After ½ hour it all comes back anyway", and that's less time than it would take one person to do 7 trips.
Glad to hear you'll be gooning, and look forward to checking scores for Lazs and Nopoop to see how they're getting on with it too. :D
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I hope this doesn't shock you too awfully much, but I've gooned before.
See, it's about choice. I like to have a reasonable chance of taking off and flying to a fight and arriving with enough gas to hassle for at least 10-15 minutes in any plane in the planeset.
Now, that will be possible in Trinity although it may take ONE goon sortie. Well done, NB!
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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL Mr. Toad!
Sounds to me you want choices, but only your choices. When the other guy begins to steal a march by hitting your strat targets, this is deemed to be unfair!!!
Beet1e, you keep using the word unfair.
Without rereading all of Toad's posts, I don't recalling anything relating to fair vs. unfair.
The point is fun vs. unfun.
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Originally posted by Toad
I hope this doesn't shock you too awfully much, but I've gooned before.
LOL! For you, that sounds like a busman's holiday to me. ;) Can see why you might not want to fly 'em.
Needed you just now to do 7 M3 sorties. We were down to 25%, but the F6F was still good for defence...
:)
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Originally posted by sax
Beetle, get a hobby.
AHEM , I believe I am missing the credit here.
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u probly won't see me in a goon... I can allmost bet on it... doubt you will see me in a GV.
slap... yes... thanks. I look at all GV's the same way I look at lawyers (no offense nimitz) you have to have em in the game to counter em in the game. so long as someone besides me is willing to drive em I'm happy..
beetle... I still don't care about strat.. I just want a place to fight.
lazs
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Rgr Lazs. So the strat change that the non-strat guys insisted upon having was not so that they could resupply the field. They want someone else to do it for them. :rolleyes:
Well I guess it will work. But sorties other than air to air are boring, don't you know! Suppose no-one wants to fly goons or drive M3? You won't get your fuel up above 25%. :eek:
Oh well, if the worst comes to the worst, you can always voice your complaint to HTC, and tell them that your virtual countrymen are not flying/driving the way you want them to. :D:D
Sorry, couldn't resist!
:p
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With more fields added to Trinity and the conversion of GV bases to airbases......
the fights may well be close enough that we can dispense with worrying about the fuel. As long as you have enough to get there and fight a while......
Besides, there's tons of Generalissimo's that do all of our worrying for us, whether we ask them to or not. :D
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Beetle are you really that thick?
Toad prefers a particular style of gameplay over others offered by AH....so do many others, myself included.
None of the crap you post will change that, as I could care less what you have to say about how I should play this game.
I'll play until I'm tired of it and find something else to do....if you like drivin goons and steerin GV's around and floatin in boats, then that's great for you....I started playing this sim because it was about air to air combat....I liked it best when it was simple.
12 years I've been doin this....followed Dale thru two of his ventures....the only constant in all of it has been stupid remarks from players like yourself. I guess it's good to be able to count on somethin huh?
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I personaly fail to see where the fun is attacking stationary ground targets when you have a plaethora(sp?) of Live flying targets.
I personaly fail to see where the fun is in having those 50 Vs 1 "fights", add to that the fact that you have to fly 20 minutes to get to "the fight"
maybe I'm just stupid.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I personaly fail to see where the fun is attacking stationary ground targets when you have a plaethora(sp?) of Live flying targets.
I personaly fail to see where the fun is in having those 50 Vs 1 "fights", add to that the fact that you have to fly 20 minutes to get to "the fight"
maybe I'm just stupid.
<> Oh, come on, we all know you are not!
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Comming from you, I'll take it as a compliment ;)
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Mr. Toad!
Besides, there's tons of Generalissimo's that do all of our worrying for us, whether we ask them to or not.
ROFL! But of course there are. But I wanted to hear you say it. :D Sounds to me as if you'll be sort of relying on it. :eek: What's in it for the hi-alt P47 drivers? One of the things I like about the Pizza map is being able to take off from a hi alt field without the threat of an LA7 cherrypicker/goonhunter buzzing around because he's only had to fly for 5 mins to get there. :rolleyes: If you were to review my posts on the subject, you will find that I have been consistent on that. So now we're going back to having overlapping ATZ boundaries? Woohoo! More choices! Yeah, right - for the furballers. What's that you say? ...... Oh, well yes I do go on about the LA7, as do others. But I'll do my best. I'll turnfight my 75% fuel jug with 2x1000 and 1x500 and rockets in a 175mph climb against that LA7. :rolleyes:
Oh, I took this snapshot after yet another P47 sortie of sleeping at the wheel, having what Lazs would call another of my boring flights, busting up inanimate objects - on the pizza map of all places.
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/10kp47d25.jpg)
Originally posted by Rude
Beetle are you really that thick?
Toad prefers a particular style of gameplay over others offered by AH....so do many others, myself included.
None of the crap you post will change that, as I could care less what you have to say about how I should play this game.
I'll play until I'm tired of it and find something else to do....if you like drivin goons and steerin GV's around and floatin in boats, then that's great for you....I started playing this sim because it was about air to air combat....I liked it best when it was simple.
12 years I've been doin this....followed Dale thru two of his ventures....the only constant in all of it has been stupid remarks from players like yourself. I guess it's good to be able to count on somethin huh?
OOOhhhh!! - woo-woo-woo-woo-woo! Sounds like a good candidate for whine of the week to me! Well don't break the mould, rude. All jolly furballers, jolly squaddies sticking together. I guess you've mastered the gangbangery concept to such a degree that it spills over onto the BBS. I could say to both of you guys "You said that without moving your lips". That's British sarcasm for when you ask someone a question, and it gets answered by someone else. The questions in my previous post were addressed to Lazs. But hey, with the jolly-furballers-sticking-together syndrome, I guess his answer would have been identical to Mr. Toad's. Well, maybe with a few more spelling mistakes. LOL.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
as it is now...Trinity has been taking only a little more time to reset than I expected. Two weeks was about what I wanted and the last time I talked to HT, the max time it had been up was just under 2 1/2 weeks. I am hoping that the closer airfields will bring it to 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. Guess what? I have the opposite view of most of the folks complaining about 'Infinity', I think the other terrains are too EASY to reset. Personally, I think 2 or 3 resets in less than 24 hours is too much. Different strokes for different folks :).
That's exactly the main problem NB. The other terrains reset so fast that it almost seems that Trinity is in use throughout the entire tour. So, there are a couple of options:-
1. Make the other terrains harder to reset - not feasible.
2. Allow the other terrains rotation last two times (i.e. Trinity, SFMA, Isles, Desert, Mindy, SFMA, Isles, Desert, Mindy, Trinity) to Trinity's one - acceptable?
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beetle.. while a 10 kill sortie is nice... it's not a big deal... we all get em from time to time.. what is a better indicator is the K/H stat. look at yours and then look at the guys who are complaining that they dont get enough action... i would do it but I forgot how you spell your handle for the game.
seems like whenever someone tells me that they have no trouble finding a fight/furball on infinity or pizza.... I look up their stats and see that they wouldnt know a fite or a furball if it bit em on the butt.
point is... most of us don't like 20 minute flights to gangbang and steamroller fields... fact is, the only real strat in AH is... the team with the most numbers wins.... That is even more true of maps with fields farthest apart.
and, as toad says... we don't need to care about strat... plenty of attention starved little generals to take care of that... plus.... we don't give a damn who "wins the war".
lazs
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Personally I like the bigger maps (Both Trinity ans pizza) TONS better then the puny small maps. More to do. and not just one mass furball.
Furballings fun but not what I want to do ALL the time.
But I dont understand why those that want to purely furball dont just all get together and congregate in the H2H arena.Then you would be free of all the baseporkers and landgrabbers
But thats just my opinion.
An even better solution might be found in something similar to what Air Warrior did. Have a designated fighter town area in each arena. One where each basein that area is uncaptureable, and unporkable, has No ordinance (bombs) and with indestructable ack to deter vulching. perhaps surrounded by 20+K mountains
then you could have a kind of world within a world all its own.
When a map gets reset you get the benifit of new scenery and yet another fighter town. where you can furball to your hearts content while outside of that, the landgrabbers and baseporkers can have their fun. And everyone will be one happy disfuntional family. LOL
Drediock
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Well, I guess you haven't been listening. Because I've been saying that since the first Generalissimo started barking his orders to other paying players.
And what you continually miss, causing me to assume you are being deliberately obtuse, is that we don't rely on anyone to do anything for us.
You see, for the simple life, all you need is the full planeset, at least 25% fuel (preferably 50%), and a frontline or "FEBA". That's it. Plane, fuel, fight.
The beauty of it is, it absolutely doesn't matter "how the war is going" or "who's winning", or "strat".
It must be very hard for you to grasp the concept held by a large number of players that "the fight's the thing". To the point that many of us just auger when the ammo's gone or out of fuel. RTB is time wasted, time that could be better spent flying to a fight in a new plane.
The exquisite beauty of it all is that YOU don't have to do that. YOU can play any way you like. You can just hammer those big, bad buildings! And believe me, since it doesn't affect my play, I'll be happy you are happy. So will Laz and Rude. Play your way! Indeed, we encourage it! Happy people are a good thing! Just extend us the courtesy of allowing us to mind our own business, eh?
Overlapping ATZ boundaries? You'll have to enlighten me... what does that mean? Is that some "strat" factor?
I believe your P-47 takeoff problem can be solved merely by taking off from a base that's a bit farther back eh? If you are taking a loaded Jug to hi alt, it's not like you don't have plenty of time on your hands, so it should be no problem.
What really upsets you I think, is that now the "furballers" once again don't have to "play your way". :D
I'm so sorry, Generalissimo Coleoptera Chrysomelidae.
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Hey Lazs! That was a very good post, and here is my troll-free answer. (Call troll free 1-800-555-1234 - lol)
Yep, 10 kills not necessarily a big deal. The first time I posted that pic was to demonstrate that it was possible in Pizzaland, and that if I can do it so can anyone else. OK, let me look at some of your other points... what is a better indicator is the K/H stat. look at yours and then look at the guys who are complaining that they dont get enough action...
I've done this, and the results are interesting. I've looked at your stats, and those of nopoop, toad and rude - these being the most vociferous proponents of furballing/close fields etc. Here are the K/H results for tour 39 (last complete tour available), rounded to one decimal place:
Nopoop 4.8; Rude 7.4; Lazs 9.9; Toad 4.6
Also for the two gentlemen who agree with you guys and think I need a hobby: BNM 7.5; sax 4.0
And for me: 7.2 hehe - not just hitting those big bad buildings! :p
So whereas you are the clear leader on that stat, I am right in the middle there with the second, third and fourth being closely grouped. And this is what I've been trying to convey... You don't have to be a furballer to find fights. So if you don't like the map, you know what to do to reset it. And after all, it was because us strat/warmonger types were not doing it fast enough which led to all the map whining in the first place! ;)
Several factors skew the K/H stat. If you do a Toad, and auger when your ammo's all gone thus saving RTB time, yes you can get a better k/h because you'll be saving a lot of time. I always try to land if I have only one or two kills, even though that impacts k/h. Because just as you guys don't give a damn who wins the war, I don't give a damn about k/h. The k/h will also be affected by the map that's on, and I believe k/h is for ALL kills (all vehicles/aircraft/guns/boats) and not just kills in fighter aircraft per hour of fighter aircraft time. fact is, the only real strat in AH is... the team with the most numbers wins....
I don't disagree. Some months ago I suggested turning off the bardar and mission editor (gangbang generator).
To tell you the truth, I don't care who wins the war either. Because no-one can stay online long enough to see it, except during US prime time when the children's maps are up and someone has bombed the Rooks' bouncy castle. But I do like winning battles! I like the cameraderie and spirit of co-operation to be found flying with guys that want to do the same as what I want to do.
Ah, Bufo Marinus! :) An ATZ is an air traffic zone - which encompasses the area within a 2nm radius of an airfield. Many UK airfields have an ATZ.
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beetle... not to be too nit picky but 7.1 was your highest K/H tour... a better average over the last 5 or so tours for you would be more like 5.5 K/H... that is not a lot but it still isn't completely boring... I think most of the guys saying that they can find a furball anytime they like have an even lower K/H stat than yours. In fairness... I don't think you are one of the ones allways saying that furballs are easy to find in infinity and pizza.
I don't auger anymore ( I will ditch) because I don't want some gangbanger to get a proxie kill.
point is... with closer fields we all have more choice not less. You can take off 10 sectors back if you wish or 3 sectors back no matter what the field spacing... with far fields, it is impossible to find a fite less than a sector or 5 away unless it is around a cv.
All the doom and gloom about closer fields and more CV's is unfounded... It is like when I asked for the 163.... the hand wringers told tales of woe and how the fluffers would become a thing of the past....
lazs
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What is it when you take out the vultch kills and only count the stuff you get against a target intially at or above corner speed... or even with his gear up. :D
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oops... did a check on my k/h for the last five tours... It comes to about 12.4 k/h .... I don't know where you got your figures.. Oh well I shoulda known better than to trust your figures.
lazs
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and toads comes out 5.6 about..
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"An even better solution might be found in something similar to what Air Warrior did. Have a designated fighter town area in each arena. One where each basein that area is uncaptureable, and unporkable, has No ordinance (bombs) and with indestructable ack to deter vulching. perhaps surrounded by 20+K mountains
then you could have a kind of world within a world all its own.
When a map gets reset you get the benifit of new scenery and yet another fighter town. where you can furball to your hearts content while outside of that, the landgrabbers and baseporkers can have their fun. And everyone will be one happy disfuntional family. LOL
<> Dred,
You don't get on the BBS much ... do you ?
So that you don't feel ignored ... this idea has already been put forth by Lazs (I believe he has it trade-marked by now) and has been discussed in length with NB (creator of Trinity). The current architecture of the map/game interaction does NOT allow un-capturable bases. I still believe with a little creativity, this notion could still be accomplished within the confines of the game architecture.
I love this concept and wish that it could be implemented ... it would save so much discussion (heated or otherwise) and put to rest the contention between the "furballers" and the "land grabbers".
I would put myself in the category of "fur-grabber" ... :D
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Lazs, k/h doesn't necessarily reflect how often ya find furballs ya know. For me, deaths/hour (stat not available) would be a better indicator.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Here are the K/H results for tour 39 (last complete tour available), rounded to one decimal place:
Nopoop 4.8; Rude 7.4; Lazs 9.9; Toad 4.6
Also for the two gentlemen who agree with you guys and think I need a hobby: BNM 7.5; sax 4.0
And for me: 7.2 hehe - not just hitting those big bad buildings! :p
i think you're all tards. my opinion weighs more because my K/H was 11.2 last tour. not only that, i outranked you all in overall stats, too.
so there!!!
YOU IS TEH SUCK!!!
and fwiw, i don't have any problem finding furballs, or battles of all kinds on any map. especially during "prime time american."
at least NB is working on redressing the major sticking point that has been made since day one - that bases *are* a tad too far apart in most cases.
now about them mountains.....
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Oh well, I think now that we're all struggling with stats, we can see how Michael Moore ended up with his 11,127. :D
Lazs, I agree with you in part. Don't forget that the scoring system allows folks to score fighter sorties and attack sorties separately. But you can fly a fighter sortie and score it as an attack sortie, and vice-versa! The reason that this scoring option is there (and hats off to HTC for including this feature) is that it is recognised that jabo carries a mountain of risk in games like this. You're not going to take a laden Jug to 30K. You're looking to get to about 8-10K above airfield level to do the attack runs. You need support for that to be possible. If I see 109s at 10K, I know I'd be dogmeat and the field is not properly capped - jabo phase aborted. There's always the risk of being jumped, and when heavy, you're a sitting duck. That's why we're allowed two separate score columns - fighter and attack.
Lazs, I got the figures right off the HTC website - where else? Your k/h for tour 39 was, as I said before, 9.9. Score sheet attached. Mine was 7.2, rounded to 1 decimal place. I think that still puts me in the top 15% for k/h for that tour - not that it worries me.
Ah Bufoon Marinus. Your query shows how little you understand about capture sorties. It's not all about a bunch of guys flocking to the target field - though it might be in US prime time. For that sortie, I remember bombing the target, and then flying to cap another field to prevent our cap from being killed. Run of the mill kills, except one cracking fight with a P51. I adopted the San Francisco attitude. I knew if I showed him my arse I'd be ****ed, so I fought more aggressively and won. You were probably dozing at a website or your B767 controls at that moment. :D
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/lazs39.jpg)
And here is mine - wider, because of the attack sorties and vehicle stuff.
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/beet1e39.jpg)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
So that you don't feel ignored ... this idea has already been put forth by Lazs (I believe he has it trade-marked by now) and has been discussed in length with NB (creator of Trinity). The current architecture of the map/game interaction does NOT allow un-capturable bases. I still believe with a little creativity, this notion could still be accomplished within the confines of the game architecture.
Actually, it isn't "architecture of the map...", it is code. With only one coder in house (and he is a buzy little bee right now :)), this would never make the short list of things to code. Something similar to tank town could be done however. I am not sure how satisfying it would be.
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Originally posted by Shane
now about them mountains.....
But Shay-ane!!! I likes them mountains!!!
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There's been a buffoon in this thread for quite a while.
However, it isn't me.
:D
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Originally posted by Shane
i think you're all tards
Shane that may be true but it's beside the point.
They issue you a badge for being a "tard" and hangin shiny things on my flight uniform adds to the "immersion"
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I've used the stat data from the last tour because it's up to date, and because it was a tour in which Trinity dominated - hence all the whining from certain quarters.
Lazs, I'm worried about how much importance you ascribe to k/h. Well not really, but I think it distorts your thinking quite a bit. Just to expound upon the point made by shane - no problem in finding furballs in prime time American. Well there you go then. Flying with 600 people online, there will be many furballs. They might be so big that they merge together to form one big furball - on the children's maps at least. It's a very different story in Euro morning time. I can log on and find only 70-80 people online. A typical player plays in the evening, between the hours of 7pm and midnight. So between 7pm and 9pm PDT will be peak (10pm to midnight EDT). But hey, that's 3am to 5am here! I'm never online then. I'm only here this early today because I couldn't sleep! Rearrange your job to a night shift, then fly AH from 2am your time for a few hours. See what your k/h is after a tour of doing that. :eek:
Shane is very good, but I can do something that Shane cannot do, and that is to dive to the field, fly through one of the hangars and come out the other side intact. Harder than it sounds. Shane tried it but crashed - his head got in the way.
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beetle...I averaged the stats for 5 tours.. I believe that you took your very highest stat and used that. I would say that an average of 5 tours would be more accurate than one tour.
I don't know if shane is good or not... he is allways having a bad nite when I fight him or the arena is conspiring against him or it is one of those nites Iam cheating... Probly without that he would be better than me. he probly finds fights a little faster since he flys the La7.
slapshot... I never really wanted an indestructible area... least not too seriously... I wanted a seperate area within the arena that had seperate resets. One with early war only planes available.
lazs
oh.. and beetle... your K/H stat is increasing over the tours... your early tours were low in K/H... all this means is that eventually you will come around to my way of thinking... you could save a lot of pain and just agree now.
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aaargh! this map is driving me nuts!
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Lazs!
beetle...I averaged the stats for 5 tours.. I believe that you took your very highest stat and used that. I would say that an average of 5 tours would be more accurate than one tour.
It's beside the point. This whole thread began with fariz saying people may well quit because of the Trinity map. My posting about stats/scores etc. were simply to demonstrate that you can still get a good score/lots of kills/field capture when flying Trinity (or Pizza - hence the P47 snap). And I got those results flying primarily on the Trinity map, which was on 95% of tour 39, or so they say. You seemed to think that my k/h would be way lower than the typical furballer's, and well it might be, what with all that RTB, getting a Jug to 20K etc. But I hope to have demonstrated that last tour, I was not sitting on my hands, and that good things are possible on maps like Trinity & Pizza. Get it now? Good. :D oh.. and beetle... your K/H stat is increasing over the tours... your early tours were low in K/H... all this means is that eventually you will come around to my way of thinking... you could save a lot of pain and just agree now.
ROFL! Will never happen. I'll stick to field capture (and get a few kills while doing it).
Where's Bufo Marinus? He must have overslept...
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infininity and pizza have been around longer than one tour... get it now? good.
lazs
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Trinity remains my favorite map. And because I despise the "Pizza" so much, I will usually tailor my game play to keep Trinity as long as possible. In other words, (as a Bishop) I choose to attack whichever opposing force is the strongest, as opposed to pursuing the reset.
The posts that are saying the problem with Trinity is that it requires "steamrolling" or "porking", in other words the effective use of force to disable the opposing sides assets - seem a bit silly to me. Is that not war? Perhaps a side should be allowed to win a war easily?
The reason behind the long Trinity rotations is really very simple - it requires a given side to be organized. To actually think about how to pursue the reset. And of course to actually work together. I would be very interested to know the statistics on which side has won the Trinity resets by date.
Trinity is complicated enough that a single squad or small group of individuals cannot skew the entire war, it requires cooperation almost across the entire team. Once that is understood a reset can occur fairly quickly.... but then I suppose thats the case for all maps.
For the record I am an early plane flyer, and I typically fight in the below 15k area, hence my affection for Trinity and dislike of the Pizza.
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The curse is lifting...
:D
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Read the announcement made by Skuzzy
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Originally posted by lazs2
infininity and pizza have been around longer than one tour... get it now? good.
lazs
:eek: Advantage Lazs
But the Trinity Map whining has only become really intense in the last few weeks.
Deuce.
:D
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"But the Trinity Map whining has only become really intense in the last few weeks.
"
simply because....some people catch on slower than others. In the end tho...
come towards the light beetle... building battling and steamrollering are dieing.
lazs