Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vadr on August 01, 2000, 08:38:00 AM
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Then come fly the Regensburg mission in the Sunday afternoon Snapshot!
(http://www.ropescourse.org/regen.jpg)
B17's with P47 escort challenge the Luftwaffe with a deep-penetration daylight raid against Regensburg.
Everyone is welcome, the more the merrier. Event details may be found here:
http://www.ropescourse.org/regenburg.htm (http://www.ropescourse.org/regenburg.htm)
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Hope to make it!
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No 190s for LW?... by that time the 190 was feared by US Bomber crews.
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Geschwaderkommodore JG 54
"Grünherz"
(http://www.mindspring.com/~nathownsj00/JG54Sig.jpg)
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Agreed, in August 1943 mission over regensgurg there were plenty of Fw190A, even they first tested the Rockets that day...
tHere were ME110s ,too from some night fighter geschwaders (really ,Me110 is a missed plane here! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)), but the main interceptor force was of Me109G6s and Fw190As
The regensburg Raid was done to attack Messerchmitt facilities there (a very damaging indeed attack, as it was one of the biggest plane factories in gErmany,...and the place where Me262 tests were done)...but the interceptor force was both of Fw190s and Me109s...
Maybe you want to change the OOB, Vadr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW if 190s are included, I'm in (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I'm there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Oh, BTW, Vadr...
THe P47's range only reached Aachen in Netherlands...with 100% fuel and DTs here, the P47s are able to escort the B17s all the way to the HQ and back...in 1943 there were no wing tanks available for the P47Cs, only the centerline DT, wich was way smaller. I read the restriction line thing but that is not realistic, either...regensburg Strike never returned to Britain ,but instead travelled all the way to North africa. So the "escort back" is not a possibility, IMO.
I'd put 1000lbs bombs on B17s ,as that was their historic loadout on that mission.
Also I'd suggest an in-depth field defence on the German side. I mean instead upping only at A20, A21 and A23, let the Axis CO start at several fields, with no restriction. in fact, Regensburg was done that way, some German fighter upped at NEtherlands to force the P47s to drop their tanks and cut their range...
Also I'd suggest to put the start base in A37, go for the HQ and then put the landing base for the B17s in A31. This is a realistic change, as the historical Regensburg B17 force travelled all the way to North Africa instead returning to UK.
Please dont take this as a critic (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), the work is awesome and I'll surely be there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...But maybe you confused Scheinfurt attack (wich happened some hours later than Regensburg's) with REgensburg one...
Anyway I find REgensburg scenario more interesting than Scheinfurt. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<S!> see you in sunday!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-01-2000).]
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'cmmon Luftwobbles you'll have plenty of chances to kill Forts .. Just give'em SOME chance of at least REACHING the target ....
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Forget the P47s and just make everyone fly B17s.
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Heh sure, if you give us a chance to get to alt.
I'd hate to see the only advantage the G6 has negated by high P-47's.
G6 is by all means the worst of the G series - it cannot turn like the G2, cannot climb like the G10, isn't as fast as G10. P-47's should be able to have a field day with it if they have an alt advantage.
At any rate, the 109's must descend to hit buffs, so they *will* get lower. Just want to avoid a suicide run.
Whatever it is, I am in. Last snapshot was a blast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
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Originally posted by Duckwing6:
'cmmon Luftwobbles you'll have plenty of chances to kill Forts .. Just give'em SOME chance of at least REACHING the target ....
Well I tried to make suggestions to make the snapshot close to the real thing...
But for sure we need 190s in the OOB. Not only because they were there (and in big numbers), but because 109G6 sux bigtime, more if you field it against buff guns and latewar P47s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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In case you misunderstood what Duckwing6 was saying...
Every time B-17's have been sent to hit a target in one of these scenarios, 109's and 190's have hit them deep in Allied territory from an alt advantage (that in itself is an historical no-no). No B-17 has survived any mission I ever flew in a scenario, much less bombed the target. You want to talk suicide run?
RAM, you have been in on the raids. You know each and every one has been a LW field day. I can't believe you guys really think you aren't going to have a chance... what I would think is you guys might enjoy a challenge for a change...
If you want to see what I mean, try flying a B-17 this time around. They are a little tougher now (it seems), and some of them might even get through. The fact is, if the 109's are determined to get them, they can avoid the P-47's long enough to get the job done.
Honestly, I don't want to sound like I'm ant-LW or anything, but you guys are starting to take a sour tone on this scenario. There is no way we can totally recreate history on this one, and even if we could, it wouldn't be fun for everyone. As this is a game, some balance has to be considered (meaning, both sides have to have a reasonable chance to win). Having the LW hit the incoming raid again deep in Allied territory and with alt advantage guarantees another LW field day.
To date, there have been probably a dozen or so scenarios run that I know of. Only two had any Allied bombers even cross over the target area. Does that sound like the history we know?
By all means, come, and have a good time. You may have to squint at the details some. The purpose of the Snapshots is to create a semi-historical situation where the results of the events are balanced more on player performance than overwhelming odds. Believe it or not, the lack of the 190 may very well be in response to the overwhelming thumping the bombers have received. (I guess this is where the thread gets pirated).
Finally, yes, there is an agenda, but it isn't hidden. We want both sides to have fun. If I had flown LW in all the previous scenarios, I would be elated. I haven't- you know why? No one really wants to up in a B-17 when they know for certain they are about to be slaughtered. Many of us have filled the low side, because that is where the need is. We cannot force people to sign on to a guaranteed death. To date, we have been fortunate enough to find people willing to fill the role so the scenarios can happen. How much longer do you expect these people to be "good soldiers" and sortie their suicide missions? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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hehe, well, I didn't expect to cause that much controversy so quickly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Keep in mind that the Weekly CM team is just getting started. Many of our designs are a little rough, we have to learn what works and what does not.
We don't have a complete set of CM tools yet that would enable us to do the kinds of things we'd like to do, but HTC is working with us on this and are genuinely interested in supporting our efforts.
Show up, have fun, experience something different from the usual Main Arena routine. Give us constructive feedback, and we'll make the events better. Most of all, please bear with us while we 'learn the ropes'.
Hope to see you all up on Sunday.
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Guys, just fly it. Second-guess the CM's AFTER you fly it. Then they can make changes for the next one.
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Hey kieren (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Yes I was on one of the Scenarios, victory for LW. And yes I know in the succesive scenario LW has won.
I agree that something has to be done to balance scenarios (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) My remarks were to do the thing historical. Cant be done because Playability reasons? ok (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) you are who have to care about ballance and for sure you know way more than I know.
For sure I am sure you arent doing any anti-LW thing!!! dont take me wrong! I say that G6 sux bigtime (it does), but my reason for wanting the 190 into the OOB is because:
a)they were there
b)I fly 190s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
c)they were the Buff hunters, the 109 were the escort dealers.
Kieren, you CANT put a regensburg scenario with no Fw190As in the OOB.Sorry I cant stand that, they were the best buff hunter in the LW and you simply quit them?
that is what I dont understand, 109s alone is unrealistic and its supossed that scenarios, while ballanced ,should be all the realistic possible.
Thats my point, nothing else that I simply cant understand why there are no wuergers involved.
THe other remarks (all fields available,rtb to another field, etc...) I gave them to improve the recreation of the regensburg attack. If it cant be done, its OK. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Your idea is too simple, Funk. Never work. Rethink and resubmit in 90 days.
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Ram,
We have another buff hunting scenario coming up after this one. You can read about it here:
Real Trouble (http://www.cgidesign.net/ahhs/rtrouble/default.htm)
In the meantime, we will run Regensburg as written. Not every unit attacking the B17's that day was equipped with the 190. We will simulate an attack by a 109-equipped outfit. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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You know what, how about we just forget it then?? That should make everyone happy.
I swear this sim and this board must be populated by little old ladies the way every little detail is picked to death.
The amount of self-perceived expertise is staggering
You ladies can have it.
Cobra
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Hmmm, I wonder if Ram is really bobn in disguise?
Its a joke Ram! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Apache
=XO= VMF-323 Death Rattlers
VMF 323 Death Rattlers Web Site (http://home.earthlink.net/~bkapache)
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I'm in hehehehe you'll need my EXPERT bombing and gunning skills hehehehehe
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Vadr ok will be there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) in a 109 of course (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
to all the others. I wont apologize for not knowing to explain myself in a softer way. I am spanish and my english is quite poor. While I may seem a bit drastic in my posts ,its my way to express myself as I know not other.I wish my english was as good as Saw, Bee or Stsanta. As it is I am quite limited when it comes to express my personal view, and so I may be taken the wrong way. ANd for sure this is what its happening now.
I know there is a LOT of work involved in Scenarios. I know there is a lot of things there to handle with (ballance, realism ,timing,etc.).
Not too long ago I was saluting Nash (with S (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) because his efforts in the rumble even when it didnt work as planned. I respect and salute such work (S! Vadr!). But I can disagree with some points isnt it?. And I disagree about the lack of 190s in this event. It is designed that way? ok, then I can live with it and fly the event with no more problems, still I disagree with it.
But that doesnt mean I dont like the events,and that I dont respect other's work. Nothing farthest than that.
Cobra, you seem to take all my posts as personal attacks. RElax, man. I dont bite.
And again while I can be sorry that I am taken the wrong way I dont apologize for my english. Sorry but its as it is. Period.
S! all, see you in sunday event!!
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-01-2000).]
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Ram,
I never mentioned any names.
And your advice is good...relax, I think you should follow it.
Is that harsh, yeah it is. But you don't have to continually rebutt every post Ram. Sometimes just let it slide.
The whole point for me here it to have fun. So if the points aren't exactly correct, thats ok, as long as we keep it fun.
I believe you have a good working knowledge of the WWII Era. I bet you could create a really good scenerio. Please try, I would participate in it.
Cobra
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Originally posted by RAM:
For sure I am sure you arent doing any anti-LW thing!!! dont take me wrong! I say that G6 sux bigtime (it does), but my reason for wanting the 190 into the OOB is because:
a)they were there
b)I fly 190s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Sounds like what your are saying is "its the aircraft that makes the pilot, not the pilot that makes the aircraft..."
Afraid of a couple of P47's are ya? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 08-01-2000).]
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The B) remark was tongue in cheek rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) the smile is there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW, 1 K/D ratio in G6 in TOD6. Its got all 109G2's and G10's drawbacks (heavy, bad turner and slow)...and none of their advantages, other than the bassic 109's advantages...so it still accelerates very well and climbs like a 109...
but it sux. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The pilot can do better or worse, I mean that the plane itself is not a very good one.
Cobra:
I may seem that I need to calm down. Thats my point, sometimes I may seem on fire when I'm not. And in this thread I'm not (in the SpitXIV one I was (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
About the scenario planning...no I wont be good scenario designer. to be one you must have a good taste of ballancing sides and I haven't that.
And I lack the leadership required (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Rumor has it that Ron Jeremy may make a surprise guest appearance. You won't want to miss that!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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LOL Ram, Thats what I forgot to add to my signature....Bring the SPIT XIV to AH!!
And yes you can design a good scenerio, don't sell yourself short on that.
Cobra
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If I can make it, I'll be there to put up in a B-17G (it would only be my 2nd flight in one (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
Sisu
-Karnak
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*GROANS at banana, and shakes a naughty finger at him* (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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hi all:
just like to point out this is vadr's setup, if he wants all LW planes to fly with 25% fuel, he can.
either be there or not, how it is set up is up to vadr. if you dont like setup, dont play, and setup your own sea and invite those that would like to play.
vadr, if i can make it, i will fly b-17, and i am deadly with my guns, and i dont even start shooting till con with in 1k.
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
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Is it possible to schedule events on Saturdays instead of Sunday? Sunday would rule out most, if not all, of the Asia/pacific region since it'd be Monday for us.
Not sure what they are now, but WB Scenario Lites used to be 11am (Australia EST - GMT+10) on Saturdays. This was a great time slot.
How would people feel about switching to this time slot or something near it?
Ex.
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Originally posted by RAM:
The B) remark was tongue in cheek rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) the smile is there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW, 1 K/D ratio in G6 in TOD6. Its got all 109G2's and G10's drawbacks (heavy, bad turner and slow)...and none of their advantages, other than the bassic 109's advantages...so it still accelerates very well and climbs like a 109...
but it sux. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) The pilot can do better or worse, I mean that the plane itself is not a very good one.
Cobra:
I may seem that I need to calm down. Thats my point, sometimes I may seem on fire when I'm not. And in this thread I'm not (in the SpitXIV one I was (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)).
About the scenario planning...no I wont be good scenario designer. to be one you must have a good taste of ballancing sides and I haven't that.
And I lack the leadership required (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I always found the G6 to be the best of the 109's. Guess that's my opinion only (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
G2 is just an icky plane to me...
G10 is a great plane but too twitchy for me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It seems to turn much better then the G10 and is faster and climbs better then the G2.
I'd just give it some time, it's a great lil plane. (And Hartmann's paint scheme makes it the coolest looking of all the planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
- Jig
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"*@#%@!!&@#*@^@ German! Blew my #@#$&#@ plane apart with ONE #T@#^#@ 20mm round!"
-- Unknown P-51 pilot's last words before he crashed into a small river. A 109 had closed to 20 yards before firing a single 20mm round into his nose, effectively disintegrating the nose of the plane in a ball of fire.
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Wolf,
Thanks, but it's actually not my design.
However, I am the CM Lead for the weekly events team, so the responsibility and the authority for these events rest in me.
That means: "The buck stops here". If you've got an issue with the design or conduct of a weekly scenario, I'm the guy you should talk to. If you have design or an idea for a weekly scenario that you'd like to see run, I'm also the guy you should talk to.
The objective of the CM Team is to hold events that are fun and entertaining for the players. We welcome your feedback on how to do that better.
Extreme, I wonder if the Friday night (US) timeslot is the one you are referring to? If that's the case, and their are enough players interested to make it worthwhile, we can certainly hold a frame at that time.
Also, We have a group of CM's that are running their own set of scenarios at PacRim-friendly times. Check the special events forum for details.
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Vadr
Kommandeur, III/JG 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2/)
CM, S3 Team (http://personal.smartt.com/~barbell/S3main.html)/Parser (http://www.cgidesign.net/s3/)
Combat Flightsim Business Forum (http://www.egroups.com/group/flightsimsonline)
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Vadr...pretty sure it was on a Friday coz it was Saturday Aussie time.
Anyway, recent events have been Sundays US times (Monday our times)which is rather difficult to attend (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
US Saturday times would be good too since it's our Sunday - even if it's earlier mornings.
Ex.