Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: brady on April 30, 2003, 05:18:15 PM
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ASW has worked long and hard to bring Aces High a great New Terain, one we can use for a ton of set up's and to start things off with a bang and in keeping with the 63rd aniversery of the invashion of France witch start's this May were doing a suto BoF set up in the CT this Friday.
Allies:
P40B(French)
Boston(French)
Huricane I
Spit I
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
Germans:
109E-4
110C-4
JU-87
JU-88
C47
The M's
Panzer IV
Spitfires will be limited to rear bases to represent the fact that they were not actualy deployed to France, but did fly sorties out of England over The low countries and France, nothing is perked.
Seting's:
Ack.7
Ack, hanger's and field objects are 30min downtime.
The rest are CT norm's.
Anybody Know the liricks to Three German Soldiers Crosed the Rhine:), Taboo, Tabooo:)
BTW an unnamed Artist formely Known as Ramzey did the Skins for this map:), I beleave ASW did some as well.
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i'd suggest leaving the panzers/tanks in the hangars and just using the m8/16 (to represent what were really fairly light tanks at that stage of the war) and of course the m3.
just a thought.
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Well Light is a relative term, I dont think anyone would cal the CharB light, we debated this in the CT staff forum, the M's are simply way to easy to kill from the Air and the Top armor on the Tanks in 1940 was the same ( some thicker in fact, some thiner, The Suma and the CharB had 20 to 30mm top armor,even the R35 had 12mm to 14mm top plate, German Tanks ranged from 8 to 15mm depending on the tank) than the Top armor on the Panzer IVH, this way we have a true Tank to fight in.
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none of the allied stuff, except the boston, can even carry an egg. and they're alllllllllll .303 armed, except the p40b has 2 .50's.
otoh, the axis with the stuka and 110 and 109 all have at least decent bombs - which is as it should be since the allies are on the defensive and it *was* the blitz that rolled over western europe the first 2 years of the war.
just thought this might be the place for the m8 to shine for once. the m16 is easily capable of standing off the allied planes, and to an extent any light axis planes. maybe perk the osty at say 5 perkies or so to represent the rarer heavier "tanks."
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The LW is really in for it now.
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The Boston is a very capable anti GV tool, at least I have found it be so, the 50's on the P40 are also great for killing open toped GV's, the Bostons spead also makes it a more survivable anti GV tool than the Stuka or JU 88, but you are right, their is not much I can do to cut the Bomb advantage the Germs enjoy in this set up, much like we can never realy balance this out in later war Allied set up's whear they always enjoy a huge bomb weight advantage.
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all the more reason to let the axis play jabo vs the ligter armor.
if you muuuuust include the panzer, how about a 3-5 perkie cost?
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Originally posted by brady
ASW has worked long and hard to bring Aces High a great New Terain, one we can use for a ton of set up's and to start things off with a bang and in keeping with the 63rd aniversery of the invashion of France witch start's this May were doing a suto BoF set up in the CT this Friday.
The Invashion of France.... that shouldn't take long.
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I am going to leave the Panzer in at free, we have had the M8 in pack set up's before whear their were no Panzer's, if you looking for or were looking for a set up that featured the M8's Shane we just had some and I am shure we will do another that has them in the future. Alowing open toped GV in this set up would make killing GV's way to easy and In the BoF they were not easly killed by strafing planes at least the Tanks were not, in fact it was prety much imposable for them to of been killed this way. It is also very easy to kill any M with 20mm MG FF, in light of this and the Bomb issue we decided to stick with the Panzer.
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Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité!
Woot! :D
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sound fun cant wait to give it a shot...ill miss my 109Franz however
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I don't think the Spitfire should be in the list.
It wasn't used until the Dunkirk evacuation. I don't think it should be available here either, at least not until the last couple of days.
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It kinda neads to be to balance the plane set out preformance/fighter wise, the Germans would have to much of an edge otherwise.
I dident want to add it myself, but I realised it had to be.
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What's the point of this set up?
We should do it right this time and let the Germans keep France!
:)
eskimo
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I don't think the Spitfire should be in the list.
Give me a break.
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Actually in this setup I'd rather run into Spit Is than Hurri I's, or P-40Bs. The low amount of cannon ammo on the Emil, and the toughness of the Hurris, and P-40bs is the biggest problem for me. Bring on the Spit!!:D
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One question:
How does the P-40B compare to the Bf109E-4??
and then, how does the Morane compare to the P-40B?
..
Is the pseudo-Morane so much in disadvantage as it absolutely would need the Spitfires to stand in for them??
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Originally posted by Slash27
I don't think the Spitfire should be in the list.
Give me a break.
:confused:
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Nice setup. Thanks Brady!
Doesn't really matter too much to me, but I don't think the allies "need" the Spit for balance. They held their own very nicely last night without it since all of the fighting was too far to the east for the Spit to enter the fray. At any rate I don't think the Spit will come into play very much as the "front" will probably not progress far enough to the west to make it very useable. Of course, I'm sure some people will ferry it all the way across France. If they want to go to that much time and effort just to fly a Spit I say have at it. I do not see the axis having a huge "upper hand" here vs. only the P40B and Hurri I. IMO the 109E is not an easy plane to get kills with and the 110 is basically just a HO machine as a fighter. The Hurri I and P40B compete very well when flown correctly, and complement each other when flown together. I think this setup is pretty well balanced without the Spit.
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Just out of curiosity, what is the correct way to fight a 109E, 1v1, in a P-40B?
This is only after a couple hours of combat, but it appears to me the 109E owns the P-40B. I think the Messerschmidt has the advantage in level speed, rate of climb, roll rate, firepower, and sustained turn. It appears to me the Tomahawk has a slight advantage in instantaneous turn, but that's about it. I had several opportunities for solid snapshots, and really lit a couple 109s up, but the 40's gun package couldn't even damage the 109 visibly. If the dogfight lasts for more than a few minutes, the 109's advantage in gaining back lost E really starts to shine through. A few hard maneuvers in the 40B leave it gasping for breath and clawing to stay in the air (at that's with 25% fuel)...
This is not a whine at all - historically the 109 probably owned anything the French threw at it. I generally fly for the underdog and enjoy seeing the French roundels out there on the wing. Just wondering if anybody has found an effective way to use the Tomahawk?
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I think anykind of sharp scissorong would leave the 109E pretty dumbfounded..
I remember fighting a F4F-4 in a Bf109E this one time. The E-4 had advantages in speed, climb and acceleration, and it wasn't too hard forcing the fight into a style I was best at. But the problem came after that - I just simply couldn't get a gun solution on the Wildcat!
Considering my gunnery is like only 6~8% average, to get a lethal hit to shoot something down, I have to maneuver a lot and try to force the enemy plane into a low alt low speed situation(I just can't get those snap shots in..). Since I can't get a snapshot in, I almost always try to outmaneuver my foe - and guess what, I was able to corner him down low, but wasn't able to follow him when he decided to keep changing his direction of the roll - it felt like a bad joke, when another friendly plane came and shot the Wildcat down, which I worked so hard to sucker low and slow, but couldn't get a right position to fire at, because of the diabolical roll rate. :mad:
... The P-40B, I think, is a pretty terrific rolling plane compared to the SpitI or the 109E-4.. maybe it has a pretty good chance in forcing an overshoot by rolling..
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Oboe-san.
The fight you and I had this morning, well the second one, after that great bounce you did on me.....
I was 100% fuel low and slow. Your plane would out turm me easlily, I managed to get enough alt to start using zoom climbs but still the fuel wieght was playing against me. The hits you had on me must have been ther lighter of the P40B s guns 30MM?? They had the gravel on tin roof sound. The only chance I had was using the energy advantage you had against you. I don't know if you remember but I forced you to over shoot 3 times putting me on your six, the third time I finnally got a gun solution when your energy bled off and you were forced to attempt the split S.
It's funny in that fight I felt like I was at a disadvantage until the third overshoot. perception it's a wierd thing!!;)
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Agreed. I was in a low fight with a P-40B yesterday and we both stuck to our strengths, he staying low turn-fighting and me doing the BnZ until I got his E bled off really low and I was able to cozy up right behind him. Then BBBB blazed in with guns opened and the 40 went . So you can get the planes to come down with the Emil, just make sure your are good and close and let 'em have it. All things considered this is one of the best set-ups that I have played. It really does focus more on pilot ability, than, say, hitting the weap in a G10 to escape.
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good thing we dont have a jabo. Considering the french didnt have one either. Unless you count the bliens.
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The French had Br 693's witch were groud atack planes, amongst other's. The French had good stuff and they had generaly more of it, they just dident know what they heck to do with it.
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never heard of the 693. Got any pretty pics brady? I know you do....
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Check this out:
http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/AvionsHTML/abr69x1.htm
Br 693, this plane was built for close suport, and some of the mishions flow by these planes realy wreaked havoc on the German collums.
300mph
20mm Hispano 404 cannon, and 2 7.5mm MG's firing forward, one 7.5mm on defensive mount in rear.
Eight 50KG bombs in bomb bay
aprox. 275 of all types were delivered by the armisist.
The Bloch 174 was a good one to, but very few entered service before the end, they were used afterword by the Germans and by Vichy French forces.
329mph, two 7.5mm fixed forward,several defensive guns some fixed firing to the rear, and eight 50kg bombs.
The Potez 63 was a light atack plane as well, it saw service with various countries during the war, after France fell,the Greaks had some and Romaia did, and the Germans used some as well.
267mph
Some had Two 20 mm Hispano's and a ton of 7.5mm MG's( One for defenses in the rear and some in Gun packs under the wings for atack sorties) and up to 1,323 pounds of bomb's.
1,300 pluss were built and saw service.
They had some decent Bombers to, but thats another story:)
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Lowe! Yes, I remember that fight! It was a great one - I think I must've caught a full brace of 20mm in the cockpit as I cut across, because I ended up in the tower rather suddenly! Yes, you are one of the 109s that I lit up solidly, without much effect. I wonder if there are convergence/drop issues between the .30 and .50 cal? I have all my guns converging at 250 yds.
The fight I'm really thinking of was the one against LUPO. We had a great fight lasting a couple of minutes, with him always in the advantage, controlling the fight, being patient - BnZing and then breaking hi to regain E. I was trying to run for help and avoid his passes at the same time. With each pass and break turn, he stayed in the saddle a little longer. I recall that fight ended when I pushed a little too hard and the Tomahawk just gave up and stopped flying. That never turns out well when you only have a couple hundred feet of air under you!
Its really just a quick first perception like I said. I need to fly the Hurri, and also try the 109 and 110 against a 40B. But my first experience is pretty much what Diablo described, except I bungled giving LUPO the satifaction of a gunkill by pushing the a/c too hard.
About scissoring- it seemed to work OK to a point, but it bleeds E pretty quickly and that leaves the Tomahawk in trouble, because it doesn't seem to gain E back very well? Man, I wish we had rollrate and acceleration charts in addition to the speed/climb data that HTC provides...
I'm looking forward to some more great fights this week! all!
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This week end was a hoot :D
I'm not in the CT that often, flew for both sides... got a little frustrated as allied, but very fun all in all!
(My squad's an MA squad... maybe someone has a slot for me in a week end CT squad?)
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saw, anytime your up on a tuesday or thursday the vf would be happy to have you. problem is that would mean you were flying at 3 am or so. I dont know if we want guys flying that early in the morning near our planes..... enough dings in em already!
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*shrugs* setup has the potential to be fun, but as usual, it felt like a mini-MA most of the time. Either gang bang or be gang banged. I had one good 1 v 2 fight (
brady and the other guy!) but the rest was either 1 v many or many v 1. I got so fed up with it that the last time I just clicked auto level and let the 4 or 5 guys have it easy. Made it a fast death so I could go over to the MA for the rest of the night (where I can find a many vs many fight at least.)
Maybe it's because I only play on the weekends and there are never more than 25 people in the CT on a Fri or Sat night.
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Here are a couple ways to fix that problem
1. dont fly alone.
2. dont fly alone.
I was up on saturday and there were 16 people on. It kicked butt. Flew as a allied and axis.
When I cant find anybody to fly with, I just take the fastest or best turning plane in the setup. When I was allied I had a hurri, as axis the 109. Niether of which are my favorite plane, but they will keep you alive and give you a chance to kill the enemy.
(steps back from pulpit)
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Thank you ergRTC, but as you stated... I'm a Yuro shmuck... last time had the pleasure to fly with you thanks to an insomnia that kept me up & kicking till 06 AM :)
To Nifty (whom I had the pleasure to vulch at least once ;))
You are mostly right Nifty, the time I saw you on there were a lot of axis... and very little Allies, but I stayed on a little that night and trust me, it shifted back & forth a few times. And I take a 10 vs 1 gangbang better than a 50 vs 1 personaly :)
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yeah, I know not to fly alone. It's kinda hard when other people are more interested in attacking undefended bases. Sehob and I flew together a bit. Still got outnumbered.
Even when the fights started off kinda even, I died to 4+ cons. It gets old after awhile.
*shrugs* I had a lot more fun in the MA, so the night wasn't wasted.
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Originally posted by Nifty
Even when the fights started off kinda even, I died to 4+ cons. It gets old after awhile.
:cool:
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:p I try not to be the 3rd or 4th guy fighting over table scraps myself. Though when you're the one guy, if I don't jump in, you'll kill the two friendlies and then kill me! :D I'm just saving them in that case! ;)
oooohhhhh... I get it! I'm getting better, so it takes more than two to kill me now! :D
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Originally posted by Nifty
[Boooohhhhh... I get it! I'm getting better, so it takes more than two to kill me now! :D
Careful there, Nifty ol' buddy. You'll need a bigger cubical at work if that ego thing gets any bigger :).
Seriously, I flew Allied for an hour or so last night and didn't feel terrible out classed. I will admit that those Emils and 110's always seem to have altitude on me...until I hopped in a stripped down Boston, that is. With 25 % fuel and no bombs, that thing climbs at 3k/minute! I didn't get many kills in it, but I was doing my part for the Allies, soaking up almost the whole ammo load of an Emil time and time again. And man! That Boston can zoom climb better than the available Allied fighters. It's pretty funny when the Allied "bomber" is better at fighting in the vertical than the Allied fighters. I also had fun flying the Hurri, except for the engine cut outs. No quick zero-G unload to pick up speed for the merge or to evade. Even grabbed an M-16 when the LW started sending in low level bombers. My only regret is that I didn't get to see more of the countryside. The numbers were a bit low when I got on (less than twenty), and action was confined to just a few bases. Very fun, nonetheless.
Sabre
CT Staff, Reserve
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700 mg rounds Sabre... at least it should have made you heavier or sumething! :D