Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dago on May 01, 2003, 02:38:51 AM
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A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
I would like to post a couple things I have been sent or read, just to be considered.
A passage from a speech given by Colin Powell while speaking at the World Economic Forum:
There is nothing in American experience or in American political life or in our culture that suggests we want to use hard power. But what we have found over the decades is that unless you do have hard power -- and here I think you're referring to military power -- then sometimes you are faced with situations that you can't deal with.
I mean, it was not soft power that freed Europe. It was hard power. And what followed immediately after hard power? Did the United States ask for dominion over a single nation in Europe? No. Soft power came in the Marshall Plan. Soft power came with American GIs who put their weapons down once the war was over and helped all those nations rebuild. We did the same thing in Japan.
So our record of living our values and letting our values be an inspiration to others I think is clear. And I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of or apologize for with respect to what America has done for the world.
We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put
wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and
otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time
when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.
Something else I have been sent that I found refreshing, from Canadien Broadcaster Gordon Sinclair, back sometime during the Vietnam War. A little dated now, but I think the message isn't lost completly.
The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the
Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today,the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help...
Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American
communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at.
Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of
them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said
'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else
build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do,they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters .. with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.
So, guys like Hortlund and GScholz and so many others can routinely attack and try to find fault with everything we do, it doesn't really matter. The USA will regardless be there to help when needed, we will remain strong and we will remain the greatest nation on earth.
dago
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I've spent years in America, and enjoyed it. I still have open invitations to visit friends in NY, VT, CA, and one who's just moved to OR.
But America is not perfect, and like anywhere else has its problems.
The USA will regardless be there to help when needed, we will remain strong and we will remain the greatest nation on earth.
yeah, yeah. I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilised world.
Don't bother to reply. Your NUKE-style chest beating has earned you a place on my ignore list.
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So... just to clear up any confusion here beet1e.
Its OK for Americans to take blame for things that happened in their in the past... but not credit?
Gotcha.
MiniD
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A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack Europe and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
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Mini D - I'm not one of the ones who criticises America for past mistakes if we're talking about military blunders. I'm not a "told-you-so" kind of guy.
Dowding is right - as always.
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Originally posted by Dowding
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack Europe and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
I missed in this thread where he bashed Europe... and merrited the repose of the British contingent. I mean.. you guys didn't come in here to say "what about them" now did you?
Basically... you showed up here to dowse someone's "proud to be an American" thread. Fine. Just don't play it off as superior or noble. It is neither. Refer to the last word of the quote above.
MiniD
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I'm sorry, where did I refer to him in my post?
And while you're at it, try and dispute that my alteration is as true as the original.
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There was someone else in this thread you were replying to dowding? Or are you saying you simply made a random statement in a random thread?
Come now dowding, no need to play this stupid.
MiniD
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Where am I accusing him of being one of the people in the quote? It's in response to his opening paragraph, but that does not neccessarily mean he is included in it.
And once again, is my quote no less true than Dago's?
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Damn dowding... play ignorant all you want. You didn't stumble into this thread and you didn't accidently quote the original poster with one minor change.
Pretend it wasn't him you were sarcastically replying to all you want. If it makes you feel any better, you can turn to beet1e for moral support.
Sheesh. Why are so many people taking the "let's play dumb" aproach these days? Eventually, people are going to stop believing you are playing.
MiniD
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He said "on these boards" Md, not "That dude posting this thread".
There are I suppose very little poeple who earned respect by their previous acts, but if you look at this board, you'd think we're all old aged WWII heroes of some sorts. And no, am not aiming at anyon in this thread in particular, just talking about the world in general.
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I'll say this once again... very slowly for you Brits and Frenchies..
"I missed in this thread where he bashed Europe... and merrited the repose of the British contingent. I mean.. you guys didn't come in here to say "what about them" now did you?"
You can't seriously be arguing that this wasn't done. Dowding's post did not say "what about them"?
MiniD
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Of course this was done by both sides, does that disqualify me from commenting ? I can show you a bunch of local jackarses anytime you want, I'm sure you can do the same :)
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Originally posted by Mini D
I'll say this once again... very slowly for you Brits and Frenchies..
MiniD
Now MiniD, for a guy that's currently on a crusade to highlight some of the BS on this BBS, isn't this a bit of a gratuitous insult?
I mean, can't we all just get along?
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Feel free to start up a thread doing so saw.
The original poster made a statement. So far, the only real response has been "oh yeah! well they do it too!" It might as well have been "I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you." They're both about as ignorant.
MiniD
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Originally posted by beet1e
Dowding is right - as always.
Oh man, its evident that you've not been on this board since 1999. ;)
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Originally posted by Mini D
So... just to clear up any confusion here beet1e.
Its OK for Americans to take blame for things that happened in their in the past... but not credit?
Credits of what?
There hasn't been much to credit americans foreign policy in the last few years.
Especially true after Bush.
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wow fishu. You have validation stamped on your forehead.
Its not like you to walk around with a pointy stick poking at people and hoping for a response. Oh... wait... yes it is.
MiniD
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Yer right.. .it's the Finns to whom the world owes a huge debt of gratitude.
How'd I do, Mini? ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
I've spent years in America, and enjoyed it. I still have open invitations to visit friends in NY, VT, CA, and one who's just moved to OR.
But America is not perfect, and like anywhere else has its problems.
yeah, yeah. I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilised world.
Don't bother to reply. Your NUKE-style chest beating has earned you a place on my ignore list.
Please show me where anyone has stated that we consider ourselves perfect.
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Originally posted by Toad
Now MiniD, for a guy that's currently on a crusade to highlight some of the BS on this BBS, isn't this a bit of a gratuitous insult?
I mean, can't we all just get along?
Its painfully gratuitous. Calling saintaw french is one of life's true pleasures. :D
MiniD
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Bien!
Humor back in MiniD's posts!
Tres Bien!
:D
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GRRRRRRRRRR :mad:
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it's the truth.
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This one's gonna go nowhere...
"Americans are good."
"Europeans are good too!"
"America sucks!"
"Argh! Shutup Frenchy!!"
"Down with Bush!"
"You gay?"
"No, the French are!"
"I take exception to that - the French are not gay!"
"Hah! I can edit your quote to make it look like you said something you didnt!"
"HAH! I can put words in your mouth and make myself look stupid!! Er..."
sigh... :rolleyes:
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I just can't believe I'm number one on beetles ignore list!!!!!! WWOOOOOOOOHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
WOOOT!!!!
I must be doing SOMETHING right!! ;) :p :D
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Maybe beet1e will do us a favor and put us all on ignore and go away.
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actually just the conservative americans . everyone else seems fine with him.
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....... and fine with you too.
Don't ya hate that deal where people get to have different political opinions?
:D
Personally, I like it. Makes life interesting... the BBS too.
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I just can't believe I'm number one on beetles ignore list!!!!!! WWOOOOOOOOHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Hey! I thought I was number 1?
Being ignored by Beetle is like being told by Saddam Hussein that you aren't relevant anymore. Gotta laugh at that, few people pay Beetle any attention anyway.
dago
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yeah, yeah. I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the
service of America and the rest of the civilised world.
Beetles emotion might be a little misplaced. We are proud of our nations history, including those accomplished before we were alive and did not personally participate in.
But! Those accomplishments were the result of our country, and our family members, our ancestors! I am proud that my uncle was a foot soldier in the European Theater of Operations, he served as a Sergeant in the Infantry, and was awarded a medal for his bravery. He did not come home until Europe was free of Hitler and the Nazis. Should I not be proud of that?
I am also proud of my Father, who answered the call during the Korean war, and my cousin who slogged through the rice paddies and tunnels in Vietnam.
And, no Father is prouder than I am of my oldest son, currently serving as a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan.
If someone chooses to refer to my pride in my family, and my son as "riding on their coattails", so be it. These sad, nasty and hateful persons will never be truely happy people, they will continue to focus on degrading other people in a sad attempt to feel better about themselves and their sad lives. I suppose they are to be pitied and not debated.
dago
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Maybe beet1e will do us a favor and put us all on ignore and go away.
Yes please put me on the list.
Beet1e = D***ass :rolleyes:
Moto
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Originally posted by Dago
Beetles emotion might be a little misplaced. We are proud of our nations history, including those accomplished before we were alive and did not personally participate in.
But! Those accomplishments were the result of our country, and our family members, our ancestors! I am proud that my uncle was a foot soldier in the European Theater of Operations, he served as a Sergeant in the Infantry, and was awarded a medal for his bravery. He did not come home until Europe was free of Hitler and the Nazis. Should I not be proud of that?
I am also proud of my Father, who answered the call during the Korean war, and my cousin who slogged through the rice paddies and tunnels in Vietnam.
And, no Father is prouder than I am of my oldest son, currently serving as a Paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan.
If someone chooses to refer to my pride in my family, and my son as "riding on their coattails", so be it. These sad, nasty and hateful persons will never be truely happy people, they will continue to focus on degrading other people in a sad attempt to feel better about themselves and their sad lives. I suppose they are to be pitied and not debated.
dago
You SHOULD be proud of all of the above individuals and you described the people that disagree perfectly.
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Originally posted by Motoer
Yes please put me on the list.
Beet1e = D***ass :rolleyes:
Moto
Got room for me beet1e?
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Ripsnort - I can tell you've never met a Yorkshireman ;)
All requests to be added to my ignore list have now been processed. Hey GTORA2, what are you doing commenting on my post? You said you were going to put me on YOUR ignore list... Oh well, too late for you to reply now.
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This is so funny.
SO many people think beetle is a tard, but he will never get it, always the kid in class everyone hates, but he thinks he is the top dog... lol
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Originally posted by Tumor
Got room for me beet1e?
LOL ....
Just noticed I'm on his growing list. I'm crushed. :D
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pick me pick me beet1e i want to be ignored to meto me to
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You guys are cracking me up.
SO many people think beetle is a tard, but he will never get it, always the kid in class everyone hates, but he
When we will Beetle figure it out? Probably never.
dago
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vorticon - your wish is my command.
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Dago, don't get me wrong, you can be and should be proud of the poeple you mentionned up there, i was not refering to that. I am refering to individuals who will take CREDIT for someone else, while they are nothing but puterdictators sitting in an uncomforteable chair in their little houses.
I have also witnessed poeple blaming current individuals for that their ancestors did (usualy in WWII)... that, I find even more distastefull.
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Once again.. that's the crux saintaw.
Alot of people chose to use a minority to represent the majority. Someone posts a thread, and the minority shows up to jump on it. Then says the majority are just like them.
Its not the case.
The people showing up just to be dickheads or say "you guys aren't so great" are actually the minority. Their presense shows it. They are the European version of the people they hate in America. Or the American version of the people they hate in Europe. They just fail to realize it.
MiniD
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It's kind of funny how we say we're proud to be ______ (<-- fill in Nationality of choice). Proud of what exactly? What is it that you have done specifically for your nation?
If you mean you feel lucky and fortunate to be ________(fill in Nationality of choice), then include me in this group :)
I feel lucky and fortunate to be an American. Doesn't make me individually better or worse than any other individual on this planet regardless of nationality. ~S~!
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thanks beet1e...now your on my ignore list to...:)
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Saintaw,no problem, my response wasnt really aimed at you, it was in response to beetle, jerk that I feel his is.
His comment was this:
but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilized world
Most of the "bragging" he is sick of are things posted in a response to the numerous posts he littered this board with, trying to put down the United States. He seems very slow to learn.
Fascinating that he has decided that he should speak for "the rest of the world".
Sadly, he has some sort of inferiority complex that only allows him to feel good about himself or his country by attacking others. As frustrating as his nonsense gets, if I were a better man I would just silently pity him and not bother to respond. He really is a sad person, and honestly I think he would benefit with therapy. Since he has me ignored, he won't see this, but I do hope someday he gets the help he needs.
dago
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Originally posted by SaburoS
I feel lucky and fortunate to be an American. Doesn't make me individually better or worse than any other individual on this planet regardless of nationality. ~S~!
Nope. As the original post in this thread doesn't say that either. Being proud of who you are is one thing. Thinking it makes others lesser is another.
One person pointed out good aspects of his country. A few others decided to show up to point out the bad aspects of that persons country. Who's being petty?
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Nope. As the original post in this thread doesn't say that either. Being proud of who you are is one thing. Thinking it makes others lesser is another.
One person pointed out good aspects of his country. A few others decided to show up to point out the bad aspects of that persons country. Who's being petty?
MiniD
I agree that it is petty to put down a whole country based on what a minority would do. (whether it be America, France, Germany, Russia, England, etc.)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
I agree that it is petty to put down a whole country based on what a minority would do. (whether it be America, France, Germany, Russia, England, etc.)
Ummm... read the initial post again and find the "put down the whole country" aspect of things. Some came in later and decided to take it that way. That is petty. No other way around it. Continuing to say "what about them" isn't going to make you look any better.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Ummm... read the initial post again and find the "put down the whole country" aspect of things. Some came in later and decided to take it that way. That is petty. No other way around it. Continuing to say "what about them" isn't going to make you look any better.
MiniD
So if Frenchy posted that he was proud to be from France and being a frenchman but some Americans would reply in his thread about some bad aspects of France, you'd agree that to be petty of the Americans posting?
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No, I think he's saying "Don't sweat the petty parts but always pet the sweaty parts."
At least I think that's what he's saying.
:confused:
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wow racial predudice is alive an kicking:eek:
the concentration camps during ww2 were horrific places, we all seen news reels of them and any sane person will find them a sickening sight.
where did they get the idea from? hitler? one of his many sick nazi party members?
no they got the idea from my country! we invented the concentration camp.
during the bitish and boer wars. only we dont publicise that to much as you can imagine.
i had an elder sister who i held tightly as she bled to death.
the result of an ira nail bomb in birmingham uk a few years ago.
so i hate the ira. the same ira which a fellow nato country allowed into their country with open arms. yes the usa.
so for a long time i hated the usa.no matter what they did good or bad i hated them.
then the towers got hit and i felt for them,for their loss.
i was angry when some senator stood up and said the country that habours these terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves.
later ammended by the president to"from thes day forward all countries will be as guilty as the etc etc..
all our countries have made ground breaking discoveries of some sort and also we have times in our past that we wish we could erase.
but we can't erase them.
and someone will always bring up something to insult someone with.
its the world we live in.
sad but true.
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Originally posted by SaburoS
So if Frenchy posted that he was proud to be from France and being a frenchman but some Americans would reply in his thread about some bad aspects of France, you'd agree that to be petty of the Americans posting?
Sure I would... but once again.. you have to resort to the "what about them". I'm not saying there aren't people on both sides that behave badly. I'm saying that those that came in with a defensive reply in this thread are behaving badly.
You are doing it too.
This is not a new founded pet peave for me. This is an underlying philosophy on life. If your best defense (and make not illusions, the first replies were completely defensive) is "what about them" you've lost. Pure and simple. If you don't believe this, consider an open invitation to show up at my work and have a chat with the people that work for me, and a chat with those that work with them.
"What about them" should never be a counterpoint in any argument. Its that simple. Its an admission with guilt and a direct comparison to someone you feel others should despise. Its an argument for people that have no argument.
MiniD
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So if Frenchy posted that he was proud to be from France and being a frenchman but some Americans would reply in his thread about some bad aspects of France, you'd agree that to be petty of the Americans posting?
I would agree too. It would be petty and serve no purpose. Everyone should be proud of their country and all it may have contributed to our society and our world. Why others might be so determined to try to undermine that pride escapes me. I know of no nation that is perfect, and I have never seen anyone, American or otherwise make a claim like that. But not being a perfect nation should not diminish your pride in your country and your countrymen. (unless your French of course! :) just kidding)
dago
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Originally posted by Mini D
Sure I would... but once again.. you have to resort to the "what about them". I'm not saying there aren't people on both sides that behave badly. I'm saying that those that came in with a defensive reply in this thread are behaving badly.
You are doing it too.
This is not a new founded pet peave for me. This is an underlying philosophy on life. If your best defense (and make not illusions, the first replies were completely defensive) is "what about them" you've lost. Pure and simple. If you don't believe this, consider an open invitation to show up at my work and have a chat with the people that work for me, and a chat with those that work with them.
"What about them" should never be a counterpoint in any argument. Its that simple. Its an admission with guilt and a direct comparison to someone you feel others should despise. Its an argument for people that have no argument.
MiniD
LOL, perhaps you'll continue making up my argument for me.
I saw the following opening statement:
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish.
Which in itself is quite inaccurate.
Actually I'd like to see the posts that attack the USA and everything it does.
Havent seen it in this BBS.
In your posts supposedly criticizing others for using "defensive replies" as "behaving badly", find where I disagree with you.
My point is that you come here preaching to others about proper behavior, yet you were strangely absent from other threads when the personal attack posts against others.
Is your's a conditional soap box?
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Originally posted by Dago
I would agree too. It would be petty and serve no purpose. Everyone should be proud of their country and all it may have contributed to our society and our world. Why others might be so determined to try to undermine that pride escapes me. I know of no nation that is perfect, and I have never seen anyone, American or otherwise make a claim like that. But not being a perfect nation should not diminish your pride in your country and your countrymen. (unless your French of course! :) just kidding)
dago
dago,
Kudos , sir ~S~! In that case call me proud as well :)
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Originally posted by SaburoS
LOL, perhaps you'll continue making up my argument for me.
I saw the following opening statement:
"A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does. Kinda gets old really, and pretty much when viewed in historical context, quite foolish."
Which in itself is quite inaccurate.
Oh really?Actually I'd like to see the posts that attack the USA and everything it does.
Havent seen it in this BBS.
In your posts supposedly criticizing others for using "defensive replies" as "behaving badly", find where I disagree with you.
LOL! I bet you haven't seen it. Though... I also bet you didn't see dowding say the exact same thing either. Nope... not on this bbs. No way.My point is that you come here preaching to others about proper behavior, yet you were strangely absent from other threads when the personal attack posts against others.
Is your's a conditional soap box?
I'm supposed to point this out to everyone? Here's news for you.... others already have. But I bet you didn't see that either. Because you are seeing exactly what you want. All the while, you go back to "well what about that other time..." Its like eveyrone is pulling up 3rd grade arguments once again.
The first person to reply to this thread included a statement about Americans in general "I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilised world.". Not a few, and not an unexpressed view on this BBS by any non-American posting on this board.
I'm on a soapbox in this thread. I know that. Do you have any idea what that box is under your feet right now? I don't believe you do. Because, well, its just the other guy. And what about him. And what about that other time.
:rolleyes:
MiniD
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Ohhh all that writing while I was asleep, eeek!
Can't we just get along?I mean...I hate Starbuck, but I do love your pankakes :D
Oh and Mr Toad's "Don't sweat the petty parts but always pet the sweaty parts." will be my motto from now on!
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Originally posted by dracken1
wow racial predudice is alive an kicking:eek:
the concentration camps during ww2 were horrific places, we all seen news reels of them and any sane person will find them a sickening sight.
where did they get the idea from? hitler? one of his many sick nazi party members?
no they got the idea from my country! we invented the concentration camp.
during the bitish and boer wars. only we dont publicise that to much as you can imagine.
i had an elder sister who i held tightly as she bled to death.
the result of an ira nail bomb in birmingham uk a few years ago.
so i hate the ira. the same ira which a fellow nato country allowed into their country with open arms. yes the usa.
so for a long time i hated the usa.no matter what they did good or bad i hated them.
then the towers got hit and i felt for them,for their loss.
i was angry when some senator stood up and said the country that habours these terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves.
later ammended by the president to"from thes day forward all countries will be as guilty as the etc etc..
all our countries have made ground breaking discoveries of some sort and also we have times in our past that we wish we could erase.
but we can't erase them.
and someone will always bring up something to insult someone with.
its the world we live in.
sad but true.
My condolences to you and your family's loss.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Oh really?LOL! I bet you haven't seen it. Though... I also bet you didn't see dowding say the exact same thing either. Nope... not on this bbs. No way.I'm supposed to point this out to everyone? Here's news for you.... others already have. But I bet you didn't see that either. Because you are seeing exactly what you want. All the while, you go back to "well what about that other time..." Its like eveyrone is pulling up 3rd grade arguments once again.
The first person to reply to this thread included a statement about Americans in general "I don't disagree, but I get sick of all the American bragging done by people who were born after the events that made America what it is today. And the rest of the world is sick of American jerks who never set foot outside their home town, and seek to ride on the coat tails of men who died in military conflicts in the service of America and the rest of the civilised world.". Not a few, and not an unexpressed view on this BBS by any non-American posting on this board.
I'm on a soapbox in this thread. I know that. Do you have any idea what that box is under your feet right now? I don't believe you do. Because, well, its just the other guy. And what about him. And what about that other time.
:rolleyes:
MiniD
I asked for some proof in this statement:
"A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
You responded not with facts but a 3rd grade tirade.
I want to see the specific quotes by the "few" people on this BBS that has "attacked the USA and everything it does."
Since you feel that it is common knowledge, it should be easy for you to SHOW ME.
Link to the post please.
Put up or shut up Mr Evasive.
I'm ready to debate the facts, are you?
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wow.. missed some good stuff here I see...
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I asked for some proof
Actually I'd like to see the posts that attack the USA and everything it does.
Please explain why I or anyone else owes you "proof", and if you can convince someone they owe you anything, maybe you will be saved the task of doing the research yourself.
If you really cared to know the facts or want to understand the statement, you would look yourself. Anyone who participates regularly would probably already know who at least a couple or three of the consistantly anti-american posters are.
Since you weren't attacked or mentioned, I fail to see why I or anyone else owes you anything.
dago
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Tirade? Yes... it was a tirade. People cleared out of their offices because I was typing so hard.
Subaru... if you don't see any sign of anti-american posting, then I truly feel sorry for you because you are really so biased that it does not even occur to you. And you are the only one that seems to hold this view.
Neither of the people posting before you disputed it in any way. One went so far as to say "Oh yeah... well there are Americans doing the same thing."
You want proof of someone's perception? You aren't going to get it, because you really won't see it. You don't think you do it, and you don't think anyone else does it. The thing is, everyone else understands why.
3rd grade logic subaru. Pure and simple.
MiniD
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There is a big difference from having anti-war positions, anti-Clinton positions, anti-Bush positions, etc to actually take them to mean as:
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
You're right in that I don't see the same posts in the same way as you do.
Pure and simple.
All I'm asking for is a few posts that show:
"A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does."
Maybe you'll realize the gross exaggeration of that very quote.
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Originally posted by Dago
Please explain why I or anyone else owes you "proof", and if you can convince someone they owe you anything, maybe you will be saved the task of doing the research yourself.
If you really cared to know the facts or want to understand the statement, you would look yourself. Anyone who participates regularly would probably already know who at least a couple or three of the consistantly anti-american posters are.
Since you weren't attacked or mentioned, I fail to see why I or anyone else owes you anything.
dago
You made the statement, now back it up.
Show me.
You'll find that dissenting opinions on a few matters are far from:
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
I do see dissenting opinions, some of those will be against the policies of some administrations. That hardly qualifies as "attacking the USA and everything it stands for."
Got it?
If you still disagree then show me the posts that qualify for your broad-brush statement.
You won't be able to.
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Dissenting posts?
Hmmm... here's one for you to try subaru...
Find a single post where either of the two initial responders in this thread have posted something that wasn't dissenting in regards to U.S. policy on anything. Do the same for a couple of the other people you know this comment was directed at. It should become very clear for you.
And.. if everything they post is dissenting... what does that say about them?
MiniD
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Originally posted by Dowding
I'm sorry, where did I refer to him in my post?
And while you're at it, try and dispute that my alteration is as true as the original.
Dowding, I find it ironic that you are defending against the same allegation you acused another of and are using the same argument that I was using in his defence.
"A few on these boards are two-faced" You labeled that statement a personal attack on someone specific and I challenged you to list the person or persons that the "attack" was directed at. Now you are using my same argument defending a similar positon from the other side.
Ironic.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I wish we could go back to the old O'club where we discussed planes, cars and women.
I wish we could go back to the old USA-exclusive internet days :)
We are the greatest!
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Originally posted by GScholz
No you're not ... but you don't suck either. :)
We might not be the greatest, but we can always say we are!
We are the Greatest! IN YOUR FACE!
BTW, Beetle is hyper-sensitive and once he has everyone that upsets him on his ignore list, it will be only Beetle and Dowding chatting about like hens . What utopia!
America kicks ass!
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your not the greatest though...canada is...you see at least our people have the guts to stand up and say were wrong...about things were wrong about...
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Originally posted by GScholz
And therein lies the problem. How can you not expect to draw fire?
Lack of a sense of humor seems to be your specific problem.
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how dare you think you are the greatest when you clearly arnt
now that is funny :D
the same way yours was only mines purple
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Originally posted by GScholz
Oh I knew you were trying to be funny, however when it's been done a million times ... it's no longer funny, just excessive. Are you guys feeling French yet?
Feeling French? sure we are...... whatever that means.
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You made the statement, now back it up. Show me.
You dont listen very well.
Please explain why I or anyone else owes you "proof", and if you can convince someone they owe you anything, maybe you will be saved the task of doing the research yourself.
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
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You made the statement, now back it up. Show me.
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You dont listen very well.
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Please explain why I or anyone else owes you "proof", and if you can convince someone they owe you anything, maybe you will be saved the task of doing the research yourself.
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dago
Maybe the reason I ask is because the original statement you made just can't be found. Like I said, put up or shut up. Because you can't find the posts that fall into your broadbrush statement
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
You know you can't find those posts that fall into your definition.
I say that there aren't a few posts as you stated (actually, I'd have trouble finding just one.)
Why should I be the one to provide proof of something that doesn't exist (per my statement)?
How about you provide proof of something to back up your statement?
You can't find them, you know you can't.
But keep trying to evade with statements like:
If you really cared to know the facts or want to understand the statement, you would look yourself. Anyone who participates regularly would probably already know who at least a couple or three of the consistantly anti-american posters are.
What you'll find are the "right-wingers" are the ones attributing the "arguments" of dissenting posts on a narrow subject as "anti-americanism."
Now how about you prove me wrong?
You made the statement. I'm calling you on it.
Show the PROOF.
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Now how about you prove me wrong?
You made the statement. I'm calling you on it.
Show the PROOF.
Now you are just cracking me up. "I'm calling you on it"? What next, call me out for a showdown at noon?
I think enough statements have been made by enough people backing up my statement that I needn't bother.
One thing I am not is your little servant. You want something, you go look.
Personally, I don't care what you believe nor do I care what you want. You say there isn't proof, there aren't some who make constant "anti-American" comments, fine, ignore whatever you want.
You seem to be the one who is disputing me, YOU prove me wrong. I neither have to "put up or shut up". You certainly aren't in charge of me or anything as far as I can tell. If you dont like what I say, you can either stop reading my posts or put me on your ignore list, either way I really could not care less.
Until then, you can just be a yapping little puppy. I will from this point not even bother responding to your juvenile posts, written like a little kid until you decide you actually have something worth considering to say, unlike your posts to this point.
dago
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hmmm...showdown at noon what an interesting concept
the idea behind the NOON showdown is that the sun is at noones back that way its fastest draw wins...
the same logic is behind dawn attacks (if your coming from the east) and dusk attacks if your coming from the west...because the opponent is looking into the sun when your coming you have a tactical advantage...
all of this is completly off topic of course :)
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Originally posted by Dago
Now you are just cracking me up. "I'm calling you on it"? What next, call me out for a showdown at noon?
I think enough statements have been made by enough people backing up my statement that I needn't bother.
One thing I am not is your little servant. You want something, you go look.
Personally, I don't care what you believe nor do I care what you want. You say there isn't proof, there aren't some who make constant "anti-American" comments, fine, ignore whatever you want.
You seem to be the one who is disputing me, YOU prove me wrong. I neither have to "put up or shut up". You certainly aren't in charge of me or anything as far as I can tell. If you dont like what I say, you can either stop reading my posts or put me on your ignore list, either way I really could not care less.
Until then, you can just be a yapping little puppy. I will from this point not even bother responding to your juvenile posts, written like a little kid until you decide you actually have something worth considering to say, unlike your posts to this point.
dago
Yup, just keep evading.
A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
Your statement is false.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Feeling French? sure we are...... whatever that means.
Doesn't it mean being bashed all day long by some right wing cretin ?
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Originally posted by straffo
Doesn't it mean being bashed all day long by some right wing cretin ?
Is that what you call GScholz ?
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Yup, just keep evading.
Actually Dumbshxt, if you learned to read completely, you wouldn't even need to ask.
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OO I know how to stop bashing America and otehr countries.
LETS TALK ABOUT PLANES, OTHER GAMES,CARS, AND OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS:mad: I sick of coming to the Oclub and hearing all this crap.:mad: Why dont u all just shut up and go to sleep :mad:
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i want to blame america about something
the ASTON MARTIN DB7
if sex had wheels it would be a db7.
now a lot of americans agree with that statement above.
as a lot of db7's are bought by americans.
and there lies the problem
the db7 is going to lose its gorgeous curves
the winscreed is going to be made more vertical,the roof is to be raised.
the a pillars will be more upright the front end is to be made more blunt.
and why is this gorgeous creation going to be butchered?
because most americans wont wear seat belts:mad:
so there i've attacked the usa and talked about cars all in one post:D
and no i dont have a db7
i have a 360bhp vantage in british racing green.
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Originally posted by dracken1
i want to blame america about something
the ASTON MARTIN DB7
if sex had wheels it would be a db7.
now a lot of americans agree with that statement above.
as a lot of db7's are bought by americans.
and there lies the problem
the db7 is going to lose its gorgeous curves
the winscreed is going to be made more vertical,the roof is to be raised.
the a pillars will be more upright the front end is to be made more blunt.
and why is this gorgeous creation going to be butchered?
because most americans wont wear seat belts:mad:
so there i've attacked the usa and talked about cars all in one post:D
and no i dont have a db7
i have a 360bhp vantage in british racing green.
Eh? The DB7 is pretty, but I had to look it up to know what one was. In America Austons are a pretty rare sight on the road....I don't see how Americans not wearing seatbelts ( which most do wear by law) has anything influence on Martin disign...
That is a damn nice looking car though. How much $$ do those go for?
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you could pick up a 12 month db7 volante 5.9l for the puny sum of $160.000
and those design changes and the reasons for them come from a top designer at aston martin
america has very strict safety laws.
hense some of the changes
this is the current db7
(http://cruisersuk.0catch.com/shop/aces/db7.jpg)
and this is how it will look after the american mods are carried out
(http://cruisersuk.0catch.com/shop/aces/yugo-bn.jpg)
you can spot 1 or 2 subtle changes:D
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Originally posted by dracken1
you could pick up a 12 month db7 volante 5.9l for the puny sum of $160.000
and those design changes and the reasons for them come from a top designer at aston martin
america has very strict safety laws.
hense some of the changes
this is the current db7
(http://cruisersuk.0catch.com/shop/aces/db7.jpg)
and this is how it will look after the american mods are carried out
(http://cruisersuk.0catch.com/shop/aces/yugo-bn.jpg)
you can spot 1 or 2 subtle changes:D
LOL!
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I would rather have a 2003 Viper for half the cost of a DB7 though...and every bit as beautiful a car.
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(http://208.56.219.94/viper3.jpg)
(http://208.56.219.94/viper4.jpg)
(http://208.56.219.94/viper5.jpg)
I wouldn't mind one of these American babes.....regulations and all :)
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hey now draig:) i know you truely love the usa mucsle cars best,,including my mustang;)
you know all the true horse power is from the us muscle v8's:)<~~fastest production car is still the 1965 ac cobra 427 side oiler,,goes from 0 up too 100 and back down to 0 in 13 secs stock as a rock,,still guinness book record holder to this day
as for this thread,,,,im american,,people can say what they want about are country or anyones,,,,,but i dont knock around anyones home,, just wish more people felt the same way.,,,and i wish for the old o club too somtimes,,lol but that aint going to happen soon i bet:),,so everyone fight like this is a true UN council or somthing
im sorry draig,,i never new that happend to your sis:( but i know you dont hate all americans or you wouldnt of asked me to join the squad:) or are ya just tring to get back and boss me around?,,hehe just jokin!!
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American cars suck! Nuff said! :D
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and what swedish stock as a rock car can keep up with a usa built ac cobra? nuff said! hehehe
i like british cars,,the db7 is quite a machine,,,laborgini,,jaguar,,fararri,,i like all cars that have balls and look cool
i got respect for all sport and muscle car no matter who makes them,,whats up with all the near sited people on oclub,,,cars suck just because they wanna start crap,,pure and simple,,lol<~~should change the name of the oclub,,into the haters club,,lol
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Just a reply to the 'who ever sent anyone to help the USA when she needed it' type quote from some Canadian in the '70s.
Your answer is Australia.
Both millitary and civil aid is regularly given.
By civil aid I mean things like Aussie firefighters helping with the forrest fires every year, granted, in Aussie fire season, the yanks are down here, so it's certainly not a one way deal.
We sent guys to help clear up after the WTC ordeal too.
I think we are about the only country ever to pay every cent of what we owed uncle Sam for millitary hardware too.
And allmost every millitary action involving the US since 1942 has allso involved Australian servicemen.
We are like the little brother.......annoying as all hell 90% of the time, but real handy to have around when the smelly stuff hits the spinny thing.
Blue
PS I agree, the US cops a bad rap from just about everywhere, just about all the time, but the world today would be a far worse place were she not around , after all, it was the US which prevented mother Russia from taking over the whole of Europe pretty much.
If you are European, free, and not real keen on salt mining for the State, you pretty much should be real grateful toward America IMHO, regardless of any faults you may percieve.
PPS you guys know anything about Aussie muscle cars? The Holden Monaro, the Ford Falcon GTHO, the Valiant Charger R/T ?
All three would do a quarter mile in under 12 sec , bog stock standard, off the showroom floor, and this was in the late '60s, early '70s
The Charger (powered by a six cylinder eng.) was the quickest of the lot with 10.6 sec quarters.
All designed off US stuff though....Holden is GMH, General Motors Holden, Ford Aust. is obviously part of Fo.Mo.Co and Valiant was owned by Chrysler.
Valiant doesnt exist anymore, but both Holden and Ford have released 2003 models of the Monaro and the GT...no doubt those babies are pretty damn slippery too.
Just a a point of interest, in 1971 we had what they call the 'supercar scare' where the manufacturers where prevented from releasing that year's models of their 'race car' models...the ones they used at Bathurst
Ford had what they called a 'Phase IV' GTHO planned, and Holden had their XU-2 Torana and 'Old Man Emu' 454 big block powered HQ Monaro. ( so called because ofan old song that told of an old man emu being able to run the pants off a kangaroo, the 'roo with wheels being Ford's unofficial GT badge)
And valiant had a 440 Magnum powered Chjarger in the works.
Law was passed to ban the production of all these cars, because it was just getting too damn fast for publicly available cars. (all cars raced at Bathurst had to be 'factory stock' and available to everyday motorists to be allowed to race)
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Originally posted by Dago
Actually Dumbshxt, if you learned to read completely, you wouldn't even need to ask.
LOL! Ah yes, that response is so above a 3rd grade level :rolleyes:
You made the broad-brush statement: A few on these boards seem to jump at every single opportunity to attack the USA and everything it does.
You fail to provide actual proof to validate your statement.
you instead offer this as proof:
I think enough statements have been made by enough people backing up my statement that I needn't bother.
Fallacy : Appeal to Belief (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-belief.html)
You made the statement of something existing on this BBS as you've stated.
I've stated that it does not.
The burden of proof is on you.
Fallacy : Burden of Proof (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html)
By all means continue to show us your wonderful reasoning skills.
LOL ;)
PS. Thanks to whoever provided the "Fallacy" link awhile ago.