Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: nopoop on May 04, 2003, 06:06:45 PM
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Enough is enough.
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Originally posted by nopoop
Enough is enough.
If you're having too much nopoop, I recommend 2 squares of ex-lax twice a day until relief occurs. And that's the straight poop, nopoop. :)
curly
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Your right Curly, I'm stuffed up.
I'm thinkin a square of Mindinao, Baltic, Ndisles and Uterus taken one each for a 3 day period would loosen things up..
By the Sunday it will be Ndisles and I'll be regular..
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Nopoop,
I find it highly anomalous that you of all people should be clamouring for map change, when you yourself do absolutely nothing to bring about a map change, and pour scorn on those that do.
Maps are recycled when the war is won, and not when a certain squad achieves a certain number of kills. For the war to be won, territory has to change hands. That means that targets have to be destroyed and goon missions flown, or troops deployed by M3. But Oh! You don't want anything to do with that side of it. You're just a "fite guy", as I have seen you put it in your sig. You want the glory, but not the dirty work. Sorry, war is not like that.
I don't understand your refusal to do anything except air to air combat. I have done a load of jabo, GV, and M3/Goon field captures. You're just flying half or one third of the game - no wonder you get frustrated. Same thing for Lazs.
You have in the recent past cited me as an air to air combat minimalist, and yet I got hundreds of fighter kills in tour 39.
You want a map change? Do something about it yourself, instead of coming in here to whine. The reason the map is slow to change is because there are hordes of guys in there just like you, doing absolutely nothing for the war effort.
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Capture territory? what a novel idea :D
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There's obviously two factions (at least two) playing.
The "boys just wanna have fun" faction has seen a steady evolution from what at first was a pure fighter ACM game to what we have now. They had "a lot of fun" in the beginning and "enough fun" as the changes kept coming. However, Trinity is pushing the "barely enough fun" limit for a lot of these guys and I'm one of them. It'd be a lot more palatable if Trinity, due to it's characteristics, didn't dominate the rotation almost completely. The other maps aren't up often and when they are up, they reset really quickly now that the "teams" have learned how to make an effective 60 plane steamroller. However, it's less palatable because Trinity is up most of the time and it is not "boys just want to have fun friendly.".
Now, OTOH, the "war effort" guys have seen their interest increase (apparently; I'm not one of them and shouldn't speak for them, but they seem happier) as AH has evolved out of a "pure" ACM game.
They got GV's to play around with that are virtually immune to all fighter weapons except bombs and heavy rockets. (Fine but why did my undamaged IL-2 lose it's tail to thre pings from the .30 cal the pintle gun on a panzer while I was strafing him with 23mm?) THe GV's add to the "war effort" I guess, but they add nothing to ACM except that they provide portable hardened "ack emplacements" for somebody to run to when he's lost the ACM fight.
They got three ships of bombers with a more complex aiming system to help the "war effort". What did making the bombers less effective and more difficult to use accomplish? It made less bombers, much less effective bombers and led to the old "suicide jabo" squads as a substitute.
The "big" map "Trinity Project" might have been OK if they'd packed the fields in so that distance to fly wasn't any different than it was in the old days. That would make it much more early war friendly but perhaps the "war effort" requires spread bases. I don't know.
Strat? Oh, the "war effort" guys got their "strat". As a buddy of mine said, he logged on and there were 11 front line bases. All eleven had fuel at 25%. Superb war effort!
So, he flew resupply sorties and M3 resupply sorties only to find out it takes 7 trips to bring fuel from 25 to 50. Seven trips in slow vehicles from far away bases. Just to get the fuel up to a decent early war playing amount.
Guess that's the "war effort" goal? Make some poor bast d use all his available playing time to fly resupply?
Anyway, you "war effort" guys. You apparently won the "war" at the HTC offices. Enjoy. I'm sure you find these changes simply "fascinating" and "immerisive" and "realistic".
And, believe me, I'm happy that you do. I'm glad you enjoy the game.
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Trinity is ok, but could use more ports. The land bases favor the late-war planes that can cover a lot of territory in a short amount of time because of the distance between them, but there's only 2 ports in the northern lake and only a handful down south. Throw a couple more ports up north and a few more down south and let some carrier groups go at it while some others do base captures.
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plus... if your team resets the map you win the hawiian vacation and... it wont roll around again for at least 3 or four days.
perhaps poopie and I relaize that the strat is so compex and multilayered that if ee ever trie it we will be sucked in like some retarded kindergardener discovering everquest.
yeah... it's not just that it's no fun to building battle or drone herd... it's the fear of getting caught up in it. The fear that some general may not accept you into his missun... maybe... maybe we aren't even good enough to crash our planes into a building! Maybe... maybe even, we will doze off at the wrong moment
no... better us simple minded stick with trying to figure out energy states and flight models and leave the steamrolling and fighting over scraps to you guys.
lazs
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You guys are all spoiled.
What in the world would you have done flying beta terrain with all its flaws for 6 months?
HT & the boys have been building maps for 3 years now, and they finally found one that is so well balanced that it can't be reset in a 12 hour period.
I'm sure they are celebrating their success.
I beleive it takes TIME to learn a terrains finer points. Time you don't get if you reset it ever day or 2.
One of these days someone will find a way to be able to reset trinity in a day or less.
For the time being if you want a reset get ALL your guys flying and reset it.
Perhaps multi squad opps with some advanced planning would do the trick.
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ghost... I think the problem is that you believe that reseting the map is at least as much fun as household chores or paying bills or watching re runs of friends on TV... Some of us do this to have fun.
some of us don't think, or even care if there is some secret way to reset infinity quickly if we all just buckle down and work really really hard for hours or study the complex "strat" and find the loophole that allows us to not be punished with infinity for too long.
lazs
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"They got three ships of bombers with a more complex aiming system to help the "war effort". What did making the bombers less effective and more difficult to use accomplish? It made less bombers, much less effective bombers and led to the old "suicide jabo" squads as a substitute."
This is a result of the "fluff" whiners ... you can thank them. You know who they are ... basically the same ones whining about the Trinity Map.
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"some of us don't think, or even care if there is some secret way to reset infinity quickly if we all just buckle down and work really really hard for hours or study the complex "strat" and find the loophole that allows us to not be punished with infinity for too long."
Lazs .. there is no secret. I understand your style of flight/fighting and don't fault you for it either. Why don't you try following a "missun" ... you will find plenty of AtoA at a base that is being defended heavily (maybe you do this). With this, you can use your skills to knock down the fighters while the "strat" guys take the base. Once the base is taken, rinse and repeat. I know you shudder at the thought of helping a "missun", but should be able to find quite a lot of good fights with this strategy. I have done this and find that it works quite well.
I do agree that we do need to close the distance between some of the fields in some areas on the map and the moutains need some adjusting too. I am hoping that NB is working on this (from other threads, I believe he is) and we will see a new Trinity soon.
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Ghose, I was here from day one in the Beta.
Reflecting, I think the beta period was one of the best in AH history from my "just wanna have fun" point of view. Bugs and all.
Slapshot, there is some truth to that I think.
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Mr. Toad - Nice wall up there! I read all of it. :)
I'm saying just two things: [list=1]- If you want map rotation, get in a buff or jabo, Goon or M3, and get stuck in with field capture.
- If you just want to fly air to air, fine, but don't whine when the maps don't rotate, because you are doing absolutely nothing to effect map rotation.
Lazs - get it now?
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
And, believe me, I'm happy that you do. I'm glad you enjoy the game.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Seems we have another win/win situation then! LOL - I know how much you like those, Mr. Toad. :D
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A point I believe you are missing is that the T-map by it's design and coupled with the "strat" system almost always limits the early war part (and some "mid") of the planeset.
The distance to fields and the fact that one pilot can quickly drop fuel to 25% is a major factor, IMO.
One guy can eliminate the part of the planeset a lot of folks find most interesting in one quick raid. It'll take 7 guys one long mission to up the fuel to 25% or one guy 7 missions.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
You guys are all spoiled.
What in the world would you have done flying beta terrain with all its flaws for 6 months?
HT & the boys have been building maps for 3 years now, and they finally found one that is so well balanced that it can't be reset in a 12 hour period.
I'm sure they are celebrating their success.
I beleive it takes TIME to learn a terrains finer points. Time you don't get if you reset it ever day or 2.
One of these days someone will find a way to be able to reset trinity in a day or less.
For the time being if you want a reset get ALL your guys flying and reset it.
Perhaps multi squad opps with some advanced planning would do the trick.
Well said.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
You guys are all spoiled.
What in the world would you have done flying beta terrain with all its flaws for 6 months?
HT & the boys have been building maps for 3 years now, and they finally found one that is so well balanced that it can't be reset in a 12 hour period.
I'm sure they are celebrating their success.
I beleive it takes TIME to learn a terrains finer points. Time you don't get if you reset it ever day or 2.
One of these days someone will find a way to be able to reset trinity in a day or less.
For the time being if you want a reset get ALL your guys flying and reset it.
Perhaps multi squad opps with some advanced planning would do the trick.
Well said
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beetle... flying missuns and goons and jabo is not fun for a lot of people. It didn't used to be a big deal... more importance is being placed on strat and the fields have become less early war friendly. The guys who like action are left with no choice aty all... spending your precious online time on kindergarden level strat and bus driving is not an option.
slapshot.. no problem with what you say... I do indeed look for a field that has action... I do indeed kill the fighters. If that helps the effort then... fine. OIf it doesn't... well that's equally fine to me. And yes... closer fields, more CV's and ports would help a lot.
lazs
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Originally posted by beet1e
Mr. Toad - Nice wall up there! I read all of it. :)
I'm saying just two things: [list=1]- If you want map rotation, get in a buff or jabo, Goon or M3, and get stuck in with field capture.
- If you just want to fly air to air, fine, but don't whine when the maps don't rotate, because you are doing absolutely nothing to effect map rotation.
Lazs - get it now?
Pay attention. No one is asking for the map to be reset. I, like many people, don't care if the maps ever get reset.
What is being asked for is rotation.
A logical rotation along the lines of each map staying up 3-4 days regardless of resets, would I think be best.
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Rotate? 90 degrees left or right would make an interesting change.
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Is the map rotation a .txt file somewhere on the server pc like a quake server would have ? You could make trinity come about after the rest of the maps have been run through twice or something...
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Originally posted by Furious
Pay attention. No one is asking for the map to be reset. I, like many people, don't care if the maps ever get reset.
What is being asked for is rotation.
Exactly.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I do agree that we do need to close the distance between some of the fields in some areas on the map and the moutains need some adjusting too. I am hoping that NB is working on this (from other threads, I believe he is) and we will see a new Trinity soon.
After some editor problems last week, I am working on it again. Nearing the halfway point. I am sure some will still piss and moan about it, all I can say is.....:rolleyes: .
Originally posted by Furious
A logical rotation along the lines of each map staying up 3-4 days regardless of resets, would I think be best.
Last time I asked about this, HT was of a mind to group 2 of the small maps together for 2 weeks, followed by 2 weeks of the big maps. That was about a month ago, not sure where he is with the idea now.
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"After some editor problems last week, I am working on it again. Nearing the halfway point. I am sure some will still piss and moan about it, all I can say is....."
Thanks for the effort NB <>
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
After some editor problems last week, I am working on it again. Nearing the halfway point. I am sure some will still piss and moan about it, all I can say is.....:rolleyes: .
Wheres your bribe link
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nopoop, I don't understand your refusal to do anything except air to air combat.
It's not hard to understand...Let me explain it to you.
When I was but a lad, I had a facination for WWII aircraft. That was intensified when I put around 100 hours in a Cessna, got my private and was working on higher ratings. But alas....Vietnam jumped up, along with a women I'm still married to and I flew no more.
My first flight sim was 1942 Gold on my Amiga. Since that time many boxed games took up my time. Until Warbirds. The thought of jousting with another human being was too good to be true. And the addiction began.
It hasn't changed, I'm a thrilled with the "fight" as much now as I was flying against the computer back in the Amiga days. It has remained constant.
I'm here to fight. I did quite alot of board games by Avalon Hill, Tactics II being my favorite, had hours and hours of fun with Steel Panthers..
Those are tactical games. This is a flight sim. This isn't the recreation of a "war" with all the elements. A rudamentry "strat" is in place for those that care to indulge...
I don't. I'm here for the fight. This is a flight sim. I enjoy fighting other people.
Tactics in a war setting come in a different venue.
Air to air this game shines.
I enjoy it to the point that everything else is just plain silly to me.
Give me the fight, you shoot at buildings, win the "war" that never ends..
And when I'm comparable to Drex or Levi, I'll try the "war" thing.
Check back with me New Years 2025, I might have made it by then.
In the mean time, change the map, it doesn't work for early war planes..
And don't use the word anomalous ever again. ( little rolleyed cutie inserted here )
Good map NB, tweak it alittle bit, and it will be even better. Remember the "fighters" as you did in Tank Town. Somthin about tankers havin all the "fun" don't ya know CV's hint...hint...
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I do appreciate the effort NB. I know lots of others do as well.
You did a lot of work and I'm sure you worked very hard. for that.
I know we're sounding like hot bearings but if you can just put the early birds back on a viable footing and add a bunch more CV's to kill the time till our generalissimo's get their reset, I'll be very thankful.
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Originally posted by Toad
I do appreciate the effort NB. I know lots of others do as well.
You did a lot of work and I'm sure you worked very hard. for that.
I know we're sounding like hot bearings but if you can just put the early birds back on a viable footing and add a bunch more CV's to kill the time till our generalissimo's get their reset, I'll be very thankful.
What he said.
NB
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Nopoop! Well OK then. I see that you got more kills in the F6F than in any other plane during Tour 39. Same here! My k/d in the F6F for that tour was 112/37. So as you can see, I was not sleeping at the wheel, or bombing targets to the exclusion of any other activity. (I need practice at bombing with the F6F. I've not been flying it that long in AH, and tend to miss. My normal jabo planes are F4U or P47 or P38)
What I'm trying to get across is that you don't have to go looking for fights when you're in the field capture business. If you would check your score sheet for tour 39, you will see that your kills per hour stat is less than 5 in fighters, whereas mine is more than 7. Believe me, the fights will find you! Many a time I have had to dump my ord to go and save someone else.
Some folks say they would be bored with anything other than air to air. I would be bored by doing the same thing over and over.
Hehe, now I know how Stiglr must have felt in the days/weeks it took him to pry me out of the Spitfire in WB. ;)
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Ask not what your map can do for you; Ask what you can do for your map!
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Last time I asked about this, HT was of a mind to group 2 of the small maps together for 2 weeks, followed by 2 weeks of the big maps. That was about a month ago, not sure where he is with the idea now.
That sounds promissing NB. I don't think anyone really 'hates' Trinity, it's just that it's in use all the time and people have their own favourite terrains that they want to fly. Trinity is literally dominating AH. People grow tired very quickly of the same thing day in, day out. Perhaps if the other terrains took as long to reset then the variation would be more rewarding.
What HT is considering is very good news. It will allow the variation that most of us want (apart from Trinity lovers) and give us some hope that the smaller terrains will be used more.