Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on May 06, 2003, 12:50:18 PM

Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 06, 2003, 12:50:18 PM
Could you please throw the F4U drivers out there a bone and let us take off without bringing the entire armory up with us?

Currently the F4U has 700LBS of .50 cal ammo on take off everytime. Other birds have ammo load options why not the F4U?

With 50% ammo you still have more than the P-51B!!

FYI a 50% ammo load on the F4U would save 350LBS.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: brady on May 06, 2003, 01:45:18 PM
Ya know I realy wish they would do more along these line's I could (and have) writen out lists as long as my arm covering missing wrong and combanations of ordance load out's in AH. It would realy add a lot to the game and seams so simple a thing to do.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 06, 2003, 02:03:34 PM
I am in favor of a slider bar for ammo and fuel.

It doesn't make that much differance in many of the Europlanes but it makes a huge difference in these flying gas cans with giant ammo cases.

With 100% internal fuel and ammo the F4U-1 weights 12,835LBS. With 50% fuel and ammo it weights 11,402LBS.

That is a huge difference in performance.

There are no points for getting shot down with the most ammo and fuel on board.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: 214thCavalier on May 06, 2003, 02:10:55 PM
I dunno i usually take full fuel and even Dts without any adverse effects.

However the option i guess would be good.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: brady on May 06, 2003, 02:43:58 PM
I would like to be able to decide which tanks are filled as well and which ones burn first, to set a fuel burn sequence i mean.

 I also would like to be able to use drop tanks even if we have some fuel bunker damage at certain fields, what i mean by this is if were not taking  a full fuel load we should be able to still use drop tanks as long as were not down to like 25% only fuel. I almost always use a drop tank with a lighter fuel load in the plane.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Vermillion on May 07, 2003, 06:38:20 AM
Just shoot off half your ammo on the runway ! ;)

Of course if your flying for points that can really hurt the old hit % though.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Karnak on May 07, 2003, 08:06:33 PM
While they're at it they can throw the Japanese a bone buy removing the multi-stage flaps from the F6F.  It had binary flaps like the Spitfire, eg. up or down and nothing in between.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 07, 2003, 08:12:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
While they're at it they can throw the Japanese a bone buy removing the multi-stage flaps from the F6F.  It had binary flaps like the Spitfire, eg. up or down and nothing in between.


The F6f-3 had two stage flaps. The F6f-5 has multistage, from what I've read.

Gainsie.

F4UDOA, there are a few things stacked against the Corsairs in here, good that you're making a poit of it.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 07, 2003, 09:37:36 PM
Redtail,

I have some new docs on the F4U-1A with a paddle prop.

430MPH at WEP and 417MPH at Mil. at 20K. 3200FPM at combat power at 12,000LBS and it holds it up over 10K.

One really weird thing about our F4U-1 is that it is not really a -1 or a -1A. It has the WEP of the -1A but the canopy of the -1. Also it has the toothpic prop instead of the paddle blade.

Also the kicker is that it has the bad stall of the -1 (pre-spoiler strip on the starboard wing to correct asymetrical stall) but it doesn't have the higher Clmax of the -1 which should mean a lower stall than the -1D at the same weight.

Soi basically it has the bad qualities but not the benifit.

I would rather HTC give the -1A a bubble canopy and the paddle prop and make it a 1944 fighter (our -1D is neutered because of full time rocket rails and pylons) and add a true early 1943 F4U-1 without WEP and bad stall. That way it could be used in scenarios as the current F4U-1A is not.

I have all the test data HTC would need even with British clipped wings.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 08, 2003, 03:19:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by F4UDOA
Redtail,

I have some new docs on the F4U-1A with a paddle
So basically it has the bad qualities but not the benifit.

I would rather HTC give the -1A a bubble canopy and the paddle prop and make it a 1944 fighter (our -1D is neutered because of full time rocket rails and pylons) and add a true early 1943 F4U-1 without WEP and bad stall. That way it could be used in scenarios as the current F4U-1A is not.

I have all the test data HTC would need even with British clipped wings.


Oh send the data! All the hogs in here are geldings save the F4U-4..sadly not enough guys fly them to make a real stink about it. I'd LOVE to see the pics if you have them.

Gainsie
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Nifty on May 08, 2003, 03:51:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
sadly not enough guys fly them

you weren't here before the CHog got perked were ya? ;)

yeah, as to the original thread.  any customization of loadouts would be beneficial.

then again, as someone said, just take less fuel and fire off the rounds on the ground or in the air before you engage until they do get around to fixing it.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 08, 2003, 04:48:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nifty
you weren't here before the CHog got perked were ya? ;)

yeah, as to the original thread.  any customization of loadouts would be beneficial.

then again, as someone said, just take less fuel and fire off the rounds on the ground or in the air before you engage until they do get around to fixing it.


No,I seemed to have just missed it, although I been flying the Corsairs since 1996 in other simulations. I'm not a huge fan of the C Hog though, I prefer the 1 or 4. I prefer the machine guns.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: brady on May 08, 2003, 07:08:37 PM
Ya that C Hog was a freaking Monster back then, It was to "Dweaby" for my taste's, I finialy broke down and gave it a go for a day once thought to make a point, I got over 100kill's in like 6 hours in the MA with it in an afternoon/evening, I used that experance to start a thread to get it perked (one of many, by a lot of people).
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: MwXX on May 09, 2003, 10:12:23 AM
Quote
FYI a 50% ammo load on the F4U would save 350LBS.



or?? you could just lose the weight? Atkins works well...:D
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Reschke on May 09, 2003, 10:59:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Oh send the data! All the hogs in here are geldings save the F4U-4..sadly not enough guys fly them to make a real stink about it. I'd LOVE to see the pics if you have them.

Gainsie


You are absolutely correct in that not enough of us here make a stink about it. Our squadron is based on the historical VF-17 and we tend to fly the -1 as a group most of the time.

I still have not gotten an F4U-1D off the CV with 100% fuel/ammo/rockets and 2k in bombs. I have tried every setting known to man in AH and nothing works better than 20% of the time. Well as I have said its me and not everyone else.

There are many things that I would like to see changed but I don't have the time to sit here and gather info and send it all in to HTC. Hopefully the -1 will get a makeover in AH2 as will the -1D.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Arlo on May 09, 2003, 11:12:12 PM
Hmmmm ..... one of these days we need to do the online carrier quals (with LSOs) like I been sayin' we do all along, skipper. Hehe ... wacky fun. :D

Ok ... There's gotta be quite a few Corsair fanatics here. If you're unaffiliated and you lean more Navy than Marine ... come fly with VF-17 and see if you like it. If you lean more Marine, then there's other outfits like VMF-222 (and others) that are dedicated F4U squads. And if other F4U squads are interested, let's hook up and do some combined ops - whether it be the wacky fun carrier quals or something that entails fighting the enemy. :D

Ahem .... ok .... advertisement over.

Yes, all good, make it so. :)
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: MwXX on May 09, 2003, 11:37:51 PM
gotten D model 100% 2k bombs, full rockets...has to be taken off manual...full flaps...full throttle with wep......she will look like she going to hit the water...but gently back on the stick "fighting rudder stall" at the same time.....and she will come off easy.....


love the D......just letting u  know it can be done....
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Reschke on May 10, 2003, 08:12:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MwXX
gotten D model 100% 2k bombs, full rockets...has to be taken off manual...full flaps...full throttle with wep......she will look like she going to hit the water...but gently back on the stick "fighting rudder stall" at the same time.....and she will come off easy.....


love the D......just letting u  know it can be done....


Like I said above its me and me alone. I can land the thing all day long on CV's and take off with a full loadout. BUT I have said it before there is something seriously wrong with the -1D it is the only one that I have to fly <3 feet off the water to get airborne. Hell I have "flown" all the other F4U's off CV's with no issues. I still think it is underpowered or something along those lines. And I love flying the bird for the amount of ordinance that you can get on target and still survive the A2A as well.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 10, 2003, 04:07:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Reschke
Like I said above its me and me alone. I can land the thing all day long on CV's and take off with a full loadout. BUT I have said it before there is something seriously wrong with the -1D it is the only one that I have to fly <3 feet off the water to get airborne. Hell I have "flown" all the other F4U's off CV's with no issues. I still think it is underpowered or something along those lines. And I love flying the bird for the amount of ordinance that you can get on target and still survive the A2A as well.

No No No.....

No wep and definitely not full flaps.. Power engine up, manual trim right rudder 6 degrees. Drop one notch of flaps, and firm right rudder, but not enough to yaw down the deck. FORWARD Stick to get the tail up, then ease off rudder. raise gear and wheels up...ride the stall horn, works every time...

This is from the USN literature..and the VF27 Hellcats have CQ's before we sign on new guys...

Arlo, email me at corsair_pilot_mn@yahoo.com. I'd wing up with you guys if you want, from time to time.

Gainsie
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 12, 2003, 11:07:32 AM
RedTail,

I still don't like the way the F4U falls of the deck.

I don't think I have ever seen that in any carrier film footage. Even Billy Mitchells B-25's were climbing at the end of the deck.

BTW. Back to the ammo load.

Just noticed that the F4U carries more total weight of ammo than the P-47 even with 8 guns.

The P-47 with 8 guns carries a max of 664LBS of .50 cal ammo. compared to the 720LBS of ammo in the F4U-1D/4 or 705LBS in the -1.

Here are some weights of ammo in US fighters.

1. F4U-1D- 720LBS .50 cal
2. P-47(any) Max 664LBS .50 cal
3. P-51D 564LBS .50 cal
4. P-38 622lbs .50 cal 92lbs 20mil. max. Normal load 249LBS .50 cal and 92lbs 20 mil
5.F6F 720LBS .50cal
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Hooligan on May 12, 2003, 01:42:30 PM
The lesser ammo weight for the P-47 is for "standard" ammo load i.e. 267 rounds/gun.  If you choose to fly with the manly ammo overload setting (425 rounds/gun) you get correspondingly more weight.

F4U do you have any intent on scanning all of your F4U data and hosting it on a website?  I would be happy to help you in this endeavor.

Hooligan
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 12, 2003, 02:40:32 PM
Heya Hooligan,

That's exactly my point. The P-47 has an option for less ammo per gun. So does the P-38, FW190, P-51 and others. The f4U carries more than any of them and yet it has no alternative loadout option.

I have at least 4 seperate docs mostly on the F4U totaling over 100 pages of data I have never seen anywhere on the web.

Scanning all of it is quite the task. I don't know if I'll be able to do it soon but when I do I will certainly call on you for web space.

BTW, Most of some is British, some is AAF testing and some Navy test.

One interesting piece is a statement explaining why the early F4U-1 didn't climb the same as the early F6F.

1. The F4U-1 weight when fully loaded was 12,835LBS and the F6F was roughly 12,400LBS a difference of nearly 350LBS. Even though the F4U was lighter when empty is carried much more fuel.

2. The F6F was more efficient in cooling and could be climbed with cowl flaps closed.

The 2nd reason is very inetersting because it shows a point I have been argueing with Pyro and HT for a long time. That climb and accleration are not always equal because there are other factors that are not accounted for. Case and point the F4U and F6F.

Based on that the F4U should acclerate better than it climbs in AH. Don't you think?
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: HoHun on May 12, 2003, 03:36:47 PM
Hi F4UDOA,

>2. The F6F was more efficient in cooling and could be climbed with cowl flaps closed.

>The 2nd reason is very inetersting because it shows a point I have been argueing with Pyro and HT for a long time. That climb and accleration are not always equal because there are other factors that are not accounted for.

Actually, the F6F will both climb AND accelerate better with cowl flaps closed than with cowl flaps open. The difference is just that low-speed climbs can be sustained while low-speed accelerations can't - after accelerating for a while, you won't be at low speed anymore! :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 12, 2003, 03:58:32 PM
Huh?

If the F6F climbs marginally better with cowl flaps closed than an equally loaded F4U does with clowl flaps open. Then how does it then accelerate better that the F4U when it's cowl flaps are also closed??
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: HoHun on May 15, 2003, 05:26:34 PM
Hi F4UDOA,

>Huh?

For the F6F, climb and acceleration are linearly related with either cowl flaps open or cowl flaps closed. They're not linearly related with cowl flaps open in one case and cowl flaps closed in the other, or vice versa. As always, you have to consider the exact flight condition.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Arlo on May 15, 2003, 06:32:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by HoHun
The difference is just that low-speed climbs can be sustained while low-speed accelerations can't - after accelerating for a while, you won't be at low speed anymore! :-)


I hope you're not trying to insinuate that climbing can be sustained indefinately. ;)
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: HoHun on May 15, 2003, 06:45:27 PM
Hi Arlo,

>I hope you're not trying to insinuate that climbing can be sustained indefinately. ;)

LOL! Actually, if you go fast enough, it can! :-)

However, you won't be able to get an F6F to the 11 km/s required for (unpropelled) interplanetary flight, regardless of cowl flap status.

Even an F4U will barely manage ;-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 15, 2003, 07:33:47 PM
HoHun,

I'm still not sure what you are trying to say.

However if the F6F climbs with it's cowl flaps closed then it's climb will be directly proportioned to it's acceleration.

Also if the F4U climbs with cowl flaps open then it will accelerate better than it climbs because it's drag condition is lower.

BTW, this is the opinion of the authors of the flight test as well.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Arlo on May 15, 2003, 10:27:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Arlo,

>I hope you're not trying to insinuate that climbing can be sustained indefinately. ;)

LOL! Actually, if you go fast enough, it can! :-)

However, you won't be able to get an F6F to the 11 km/s required for (unpropelled) interplanetary flight, regardless of cowl flap status.

Even an F4U will barely manage ;-)


Following that train of logic, we don't even know if the speed of light is actually a barrier to acceleration for sure. I bet a pony could get close. :D
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: Red Tail 444 on May 16, 2003, 10:06:48 AM
Hey F4U...I'd pay for postage if U send the data...Hell, I'll give yo umy work fax number as well...email me at corsair_pilot_mn@yahoo.com, if interested.

Gainsie
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: F4UDOA on May 16, 2003, 12:42:31 PM
Redtail,

I would send you a copy but the pages from the PROCAT doc server in the UK are very large. I can't fit them in my copier or scanner. Otherwise they would be on my web page.

I am going to a local copy store and get them in electronic copy ASAP. I will send it immediately after that.
Title: F4U Ammo load
Post by: HoHun on May 22, 2003, 01:48:20 PM
Hi F4UDOA,

>Also if the F4U climbs with cowl flaps open then it will accelerate better than it climbs because it's drag condition is lower.

Climb and acceleration are directly proportional in each of the two conditions.

Opening or closing the cowl flaps means changing the condition, but not that the concept of proportionality between climb and acceleration is wrong :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)