Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: funkedup on May 07, 2003, 02:14:20 AM
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Buy (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/030681157X/) and Read. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0811717003/)
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Neat, thanks !
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I'm already halfway there!
SOB
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If you can support subtittle I hightly recommand this film:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6301319680/qid=1052299304/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_3/102-3883711-8079308?v=glance&s=video&n=507846
This one is good too even if I prefer the former :
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6302185998/qid=1052299304/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/102-3883711-8079308?v=glance&s=video&n=507846
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Most , I've heard like 75%+, of the brave "French" soldiers at Dien Bien Phu were german ww2 veterans....
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But I thought the French were all cowardly scum and their troops worse than worthless?
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Originally posted by Dowding
But I thought the French were all cowardly scum and their troops worse than worthless?
That is true. :)
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Of course, no-one compares favourably to those glorious, honourable Croatian fighting men. :)
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What does that have to do with the french being cowards?
I donno we were some the last holding out and killing communists at stalingrad. We were renowned warriors in the past, we helped turn back turks, we were employed as bodyguards at the french royal court.. The top croatian ace of ww2 is better than all allied aces except the two top russians.. Not bad for a little country. Also Croatian/Serb partisans made tons and tons of trouble for the german army and tied up many divisions including SS units and paratroopers - we did much better than those french amatures ;). Then of course during our little war in the 1990s a few badly armed rag tag croatian fighters managed to stop one of europes largest and best equiped land armies within a year. And of course a croatian/US blitzkrieg offensive in 1995 captrured 1/3 of our country in a few days that was still occuped by serb forces and we went into bosnia to relieve areas unders serb seige - we would have liberated all of bosnia and prolly pushed close to western serbia but we stopped because we were asked to out of post-war political considerations.
So its not bad for a small country of only 4,000,000...
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Most , I've heard like 75%+, of the brave "French" soldiers at Dien Bien Phu were german ww2 veterans....
I've seen this posted previously but never found a source.
Btw when entering the Légion you are not anymore a citizen of any country you are a légionnaire.
Does the sentences "esprit de corps" / "legio patrio nostra" ring a bell ?
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Look straffo everyone knows the french are cowards, the british are cold, the germans are techical, the italians are lazy and so on. It just the way it is. :)
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Damit ! I've been shot down by a « cliché » :D
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Ahhh hell..no one w/a brain will argue that the French are not brave as any other soldier...
Its quite simple what thier problem has always been...
Moronic leadership at the highest level....
"We are surronded sir...your orders? Die like paratroopers" I mean..what's up w/that melodramatic BS line coming from a commanding officer?
Correct me if I'm wrong but your last great leader was Napoleon.
DeGual(sp?) doesnt count..he was simply a fiqure head and never proved his worth beyond being a fiqure to rally the "Free French" around.
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xBat it's up to you to do a search about de Gaulle and the 4eme DCR in 1940.
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Oooh! Went on the defensive there a bit didn't you? It's a good job you're not French. You would have burst a blood vessel by now given the atmosphere around here. ;)
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Me Dowding? Nah...
Your whole thing was just trying to change the subject to protect your cowrdly french saddam loving communist idols ;) - it had nothing to with the thread. However I did see it as an opportunity to educate you about croatian military history.. :D
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I'd started reading "Street Without Joy" right after finishing "We Were Soldiers Once...and Young" but then I went on vacation and got started on "Raising the Hunley" and that led me to "The Sea Hunters" by Clive Cussler. I do plan on getting back to "Street Without Joy" as soon as I finish Cussler's book.
I was under the impression that the Dien Bien Phu situation was fought by the French Foreign Legion comprised mostly of German combat vets.
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Originally posted by straffo
xBat it's up to you to do a search about de Gaulle and the 4eme DCR in 1940.
Well... I read he wanted to use his armor in a much more modern manner than the inbreeds over him Straffo. I remember that
I still dont know if I'd rate him w/Guderian,Rommel,Mannstien(sp?),Patton,Montgomery etc though. He never had much of chance to prove me otherwise.
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http://gi.grolier.com/wwii/wwii_degaulle.html
Well... egg on my face. He rates w/Napoleon.
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a whole bunch of the shooters in the ffl were german vets from wwii in the years after wwii. i think all the officers in ffl are french. french military ive come across were good at their job. a warrior is a warrior is a warrior. some end up working for idiots and some dont.
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Surprise surprise xBat ;)
I even read somewhere that "Vers l'armée de métier" (The Army of the Future) inspired the creation of the panzer divison ...
I don't know if it's an urban legend but in 1934 this book was pretty visionnary .
Even if I don't allways agree with de Gaulle vision/idea I think he his the most important french politician of last century.
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According to Fall, there were some German nationals at Dien Bien Phu but not nearly as many as stated in some reports. There was a mixture of Frenchmen, Algerians, Vietnamese, Montagnards, Germans, and a few others I am forgetting. There were not all Foreign Legion units.
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Also Croatian/Serb partisans made tons and tons of trouble for the german army and tied up many divisions including SS units and paratroopers
I thought you don't like the communist?
As I know the Yugoslav Partisans where mostly communist. And the Croatian Ustashas where pure fascist. :o
metronom
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Not only does it have one of the best book titles ever, but the book itself was amazing. I would also recomend Fall's book, A Street Without Joy, which refers to France's struggles to keep open Highway 1, the road that connnected Hanoi with Haiphong Harbor. However the book gives an overview of the politics and history surrounding the French Indo-China War. Also an excellent book.
Another two books to read if you're interested in this period of France's history are Praetorians and Centurians by Jean Larteguy, . These two great books are works of historical fiction. They detail what the Legionaire Para's went through in the Viet Minh camps, their release and their return to Algeria. The second book covers the reasons why they decided to revolt against the Republic and installed DeGaulle as president. A move which backfired against them as DeGaulle gave Algeria its freedom. This caused members of the Legion to try and assisinate DeGaulle becuase they felt betrayed by him. In return DeGaulle came very close to disbanding the Legion entirely.
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Originally posted by metronom
I thought you don't like the communist?
As I know the Yugoslav Partisans where mostly communist. And the Croatian Ustashas where pure fascist. :o
metronom
Well some were communists but many also were not. The funny thing is most craotians would not have become partisans except for the fact that the ustase gave a bunch of country away to the italians. In fact most croatians were quite happy to see the german invasion and we welcomed them as liberators and friends because of our good experience and close cultural contact with "german" stuff in the austrian empire and bad experiences with the serb dominated post ww1 kingdom. It was only after hitler and the ustase gave all that land away to italy that so many croatians joined partisans and did the resisance - otherwise, for good or bad, its likely we would have good honest allies to germany based on our close cultural relationship. FWIW germany was the first country to recognize croatian independance in 1991.
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Ustashe Croatia's conduct during WW2 was barbaric and disgraceful.
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Absolutely, even the SS complained about their behavior... :eek:
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Ustashe Croatia's conduct during WW2 was barbaric and disgraceful.
i dont know much about every aspect of croatia in wwii but antipartisan warfare was always brutal. usually partisan arent soldiers dont have same type of professional respect for other soldiers. soldiers find their buddies with feet cut off or skinned alive and then not very likely to treat partisan with decency if they take them alive at all. anyone who gurantees that they wouldnt take reprisals or refuse capture on enemy partisan and such if they found their best buddy skinned alive is lying.
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Grunherz, you very conveniently glossed over Croatia's stance as an Axis member in WW2. Not a glorious period in your history. Fighting for the Nazis on the one hand and fighting against them on the other. But I know Croatians personally and know the history.
Your distaste for the French is amusing considering the way Croatia didn't even surrender but simply joined the Axis straight away and many collaborated right to the end. Even the Vichy French didn't do that.You mentioned the top scoring Croatian ace, didn't he fly an Me109 against the allies?
On top of which Tito who was Croatian was also a Communist as were all those partizans. Something you equally dislike.
On cowardice, I know an ex Croatian soldier who told how he had to force his men to stand up and fight and how one officer had to threaten to shoot anyone who wouldn't fire back at the Serbs. Croats committed one or two atrocities too, not just the Serbs.
You know that saying: People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
I daresay most of your American friends know little of this. But you know it well but you try to make up for it by constantly and irritatingly and fanatically proclaiming your devotion to the United States. You're more American than any American. 'Methinks you protest too much' Yeah we know you love America, so do I but give it a rest. Try and get the principle: America is a free country, you are allowed to dissent and call Bush an idiot. That's what happens in free countries. The government or the police won't arrest you for that. They ignore you. That why you went there isn't it? So enjoy that freedom and stop trying to turn America into some sort of neo fascist state like the old country.
For the Americans:
The French are no cowards, they were invaded by their powerful militarist neighbour three times in less than a hundred years. Sure they were all over the place in WW2 but they were in it from the beginning and took the brunt of it and Nazi occupation for four years. 20 years earlier they held back the Germans along with the British for another fours years. Before that in 1870, Paris was occupied by the Prussians.
That kind of thing colours your world view quite significantly.
The British would have suffered much the same sort of fate if it was not for the geographical convenience of the channel.
Anyone who sneers at the French really needs to get their facts right. Sure Chirac was particularly perverse in his opposition to Bush's plans but hey he is the leader of a soverign and free country, the one whose own revolution inspired the American revolution. So he is entitled to differ from America. I disagreed with him but I defend France's right to differ. It's not America's world yet.
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Originally posted by blue1
Sure Chirac was particularly perverse in his opposition to Bush's plans but hey he is the leader of a soverign and free country, the one whose own revolution inspired the American revolution. So he is entitled to differ from America. I disagreed with him but I defend France's right to differ. It's not America's world yet.
sorry dude but the slack i cut french warriors due to professional respect in no way applies to their piece of **** leader. french intel was supplying iraq military with data they used while fighting American military. french government supplied high rank iraqis with false eu based passports. those are two of many cases where france acted well beyond diplomatically opposing American led military action. chirac is a leader of a sovereign and a free country and he ****ed up in a big way because he allowed things to happen and be done that are going to cost his sovereign and free country alot of goodwill around the globe once all the facts come out. disagreeing is one thing. directly aiding the wartime enemy of a supposed ally is beyond the pale. im not surprised tho. it was pretty amusing that war criminals around bosnia suddenly stopped "slipping out the back door at the last possible moment" once the french were cut out of the loop when it came to planning snatch ops against wanted war criminals. you can respect french warriors and accept that their leaders are scum at the same time.
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. french intel was supplying iraq military with data they used while fighting American military.
Unproven.
french government supplied high rank iraqis with false eu based passports.
Unproven.
Also, please tell me what an 'eu based passport' actually is. Sounds like I ought to get one.
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Well, well. I did some reading of Croatia's actions in WW2, not knowing much about it previously. All I can say is that if Croatia's glorious military history only spans WW2, then I wouldn't be so proud considering the barbarism that went with it. Every nation has had its dark moments, but Croatia did especially well at cramming it all into such a short space in time.
Dark times, indeed.
French Surrender Monkeys? Probably better to be one of those than a Side Switching Croatian Nazi Butcher, I should say. Doesn't have the same ring, of course, and neither does it fit in with the current French bashing stylee.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Unproven.
Unproven.
Also, since you are so knowledgeable in this area, please tell me what an 'eu based passport' actually is. Sounds like I ought to get one.
take a peek at http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20030506-32981825.htm
by eu based passport i was referring to the french passports being considered eu documents youll see what i meant when you read the report. bad wording on my part there. mark my words dude over the next couple of months more and more stuff like this is going to be revealed.
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A single report in the Washington Times is now deamed undisputable truth?
The story is absolutely denied by the French government and there has no confirmation or even comment by the US government. Instead we have a story based on an anonymous 'official' in the Pentagon, and unfounded assertions drawn from it.
Remember the last Gulf War? Remember the stories of Kuwaiti babies been thrown from their incubators. It turned out to be utter rubbish with no foundation in truth. I view these latest stories with a great deal of skepticism until solid evidence is revealed.
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I hear the sheeps are being herded once again
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Gotta go with Dowding on this one. The Washington Times is not who you want to list as your sole source on a story. Notice how nobody else has picked up on it yet?
Oh... and we sure are catching a large number of these guys still in Iraq.
MiniD
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Originally posted by anonymous
sorry dude but the slack i cut french warriors due to professional respect in no way applies to their piece of **** leader. french intel was supplying iraq military with data they used while fighting American military. french government supplied high rank iraqis with false eu based passports. those are two of many cases where france acted well beyond diplomatically opposing American led military action. chirac is a leader of a sovereign and a free country and he ****ed up in a big way because he allowed things to happen and be done that are going to cost his sovereign and free country alot of goodwill around the globe once all the facts come out. disagreeing is one thing. directly aiding the wartime enemy of a supposed ally is beyond the pale. im not surprised tho. it was pretty amusing that war criminals around bosnia suddenly stopped "slipping out the back door at the last possible moment" once the french were cut out of the loop when it came to planning snatch ops against wanted war criminals. you can respect french warriors and accept that their leaders are scum at the same time.
I've a 2 letter answer : BS.
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Originally posted by Dowding
A single report in the Washington Times is now deamed undisputable truth?
The story is absolutely denied by the French government and there has no confirmation or even comment by the US government. Instead we have a story based on an anonymous 'official' in the Pentagon, and unfounded assertions drawn from it.
Remember the last Gulf War? Remember the stories of Kuwaiti babies been thrown from their incubators. It turned out to be utter rubbish with no foundation in truth. I view these latest stories with a great deal of skepticism until solid evidence is revealed.
for reasons ill keep to myself ill say i believe the report. lets check back with each other in three months? sound fair to you? the baby incubator toss story was worse than a phony news report it was kuwaitis testifying before congress in order to get votes for military action. those kuwaitis sucked. they fled their country then lied before congress desparate to save their wealth from iraqi looting while the lower class kuwaitis stayed in or near kuwait the ones staying near training with us for unconventional warfare ops so theyd be ready if called upon. look at the pattern of frances actions. against war because they believe inspections working? then we find out they been paying hussein and his buddies millions "under the table" for first place in line on business deals when sanctions lifted? bottom line is you dont believe the report and i do. well see whos right and whos wrong as time goes by. the washington times report was the quickest confirmation i could find for you. ive heard that story from more than just the washington times.
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Originally posted by straffo
I've a 2 letter answer : BS.
heres my three letter answer: predictable french response.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Oh... and we sure are catching a large number of these guys still in Iraq.
MiniD
one of the top ten only so far. and Rice has publicly stated her doubts that some havent escaped into or through syria as well. like i said, well get back to this in three months if im wrong ill be very shocked to say the least.
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Thirty something of the top 55 (Playing cards that is).... at least that's what I seem to recall hearing.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
Thirty something of the top 55 (Playing cards that is).... at least that's what I seem to recall hearing.
MiniD
we both right. but one of top ten when reward offered for just one of those ten is many times total reward for next forty means something isnt adding up right. money talks when you are trying to track guys down.
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Originally posted by Fishu
I hear the sheeps are being herded once again
are those the same sheep that were all upset over the iraqi museum artifacts that were stolen due to a lack of American security at the museum even though they were stolen before the American "war for oil" was begun? or are those the same sheep that were concerned over tens of thousands of "certain" iraqi civilian and coalition military casualties? or wait were those the sheep that blamed the deaths of iraqi children on the sanctions against iraq before the hundreds of millions of cash were found hidden throughout iraq? any idea how much it costs to feed and medicate a kid in that part of the world for one year when American subsidized food and medicine is available?
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Originally posted by anonymous
are those the same sheep that were all upset over the iraqi museum artifacts that were stolen due to a lack of American security at the museum even though they were stolen before the American "war for oil" was begun? or are those the same sheep that were concerned over tens of thousands of "certain" iraqi civilian and coalition military casualties? or wait were those the sheep that blamed the deaths of iraqi children on the sanctions against iraq before the hundreds of millions of cash were found hidden throughout iraq? any idea how much it costs to feed and medicate a kid in that part of the world for one year when American subsidized food and medicine is available?
I'll took some time to answer a post of your the day you will be able to format it in a readable way like by using the ENTER key of your keyboard or use the minimal punctuation needed to make your post resemble something structured and I'll repeat myself readable for all mortal and not only the half-god and deity.
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It's the burger generation of the sheeps.
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Originally posted by straffo
I'll took some time to answer a post of your the day you will be able to format it in a readable way like by using the ENTER key of your keyboard or use the minimal punctuation needed to make your post resemble something structured and I'll repeat myself readable for all mortal and not only the half-god and deity.
well it appears you are fairly perceptive but youve come to the wrong conclusion this time dude. im not a god or deity of any type unless you are enrolled in a very select "graduate school". heres a hint pal just because your girl was screaming "god" over and over again when we were in that room together that dont mean im actually him. :) ill double check my spelling and punctuation and grammar the day this bb becomes work related or is used to write a letter to mom. sue me they took all the best typists and formet them into a task unit for the future invasion and regime change in france. :)
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Originally posted by Fishu
It's the burger generation of the sheeps.
i understand now. next time i take leave im coming to finland dont smoke it all before i get there.
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Sorry , still unreadable.
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Originally posted by straffo
Sorry , still unreadable.
are you positive that the decibels your brain was subject to from the almost humanly impossible loud screams of "GOD" coming from your girl even through two interior walls didnt somehow damage your brain and ability to read? go to the doctor soon. ask him for an induction physical as well because the typists are being armed as i type. if you are guilty of war crimes make sure to get safe passage to syria. dont worry theres members of your government that have ample experience in helping war crimes suspects flee justice. silly me all these years i thought they only exported wine. :)
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Originally posted by straffo
I'll took some time to answer a post of your the day you will be able to format it in a readable way like by using the ENTER key of your keyboard or use the minimal punctuation needed to make your post resemble something structured and I'll repeat myself readable for all mortal and not only the half-god and deity.
Good thing no one puts the same requirements on your english or my french.
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I didnt gloss over anything, I plainly said croatians werte fifgting alongside the germans, I plainly said most croatians initially welcomed the germans as friends and allies based on our long history of cultural ties with austria, I plainly said many croatians would have been good honest allies to germany for good or bad, like we were in ww1, if hitler and the ustashe had not given so much of croatian territory to italy - a total disgrace. I also fully addmitred that the ustashe were barbarians in their behavior. I have no illusions about the mistakes croatia made and the bad behavior of us in the past... Why do you think I do? Did you even read my posts before you said that?
But lets not allow that to get in the way of some good french cowardice sterotype bashing... :)