Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on May 09, 2003, 05:54:41 PM
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???
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/39177/0.jpg)
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The Aiviekste stop.
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SdKfz 251. Not sure about submodel right now.
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It's Ausf.B or C.
Ausf.A had vision slits (3) in troop compartment and D had slightly different troop compartmet.
Difference between B and C cannot be seen in that pic :)
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Something gay no doubt .
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I think Suave needs to be banned.
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Nazis in a halftrack.
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If you dont have something smart to say dont say anything at all.
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The only 251s I have seen with that super structure built up arround the front mg34 were used by the 1st panzer division.
It seems to be a SPW 251/1. By the absense of the housing above the front right fender it would be a B not a C.
So spw251/1b of the first panzer Division. Probably during the opening of Barbarossa.
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Originally posted by WldThing
If you dont have something smart to say dont say anything at all.
We all have something smart to say. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
We all have something smart to say. ;)
We have the option of saying something smart, but inevitably it will sometimes be a stupid remark.
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Originally posted by WldThing
We have the option of saying something smart, but inevitably[/color] it will sometimes be a stupid remark.
Hence the stupidity of the futility of making commentary on it. ;)
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Originally posted by Arlo
Hence the stupidity of the futility of making commentary on it. ;)
Hence the intellectual level of this person ;)
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SPW 251/1 "B" ,it is:)
The built up platform is for map reading, I have seen a few picks of these, even some A models were fitted with them.
The storage bins on the "C" are moved to the back of the mud falps while on the "B" their toward the front.
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Originally posted by brady
SPW 251/1 "B" ,it is:)
The storage bins on the "C" are moved to the back of the mud falps while on the "B" their toward the front.
The position of the storage bins is a good but not perfect indicator; there were several companies producing the 'C' model, and some of them continued the forward placement of the storage bins until the production of the new fender design (front section over the drive sprocket elevated slightly) expanded and the existing supplies were used up
The forward hull is a better indicator; the 'C' model had armored covers over enlarged air intakes -- the vehicle pictured has the A/B engine compartment. However, the 'A' model had two vision blocks on each side of the passenger compartment behind the driver's and co-driver's side vision blocks, which are missing on the vehicle in the picture, so the vehicle is a 'B'.
Without seeing the interior of the vehicle, it could be any of several different variants, but from the inclusion of the map platform and the limited number of people visible in the vehicle, it is somewhat more likely to be one of the early 251/12 artillery observation vehicles than a stock 251/1.
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The Spw 251/12 had a frame areial aray the above example does not.
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Originally posted by brady
The Spw 251/12 had a frame areial aray the above example does not.
Not all the 251/12s did; only some of the vehicles mounted the FuG 8 radio and frame antenna that the later 251/6 m Kdo Pz Wg carried; other 251/12s had the same variations in radio gear as the 251/6. Contrast this early 251/6:
(http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-6b.jpg)
with this one:
(http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/251-6b3.jpg)
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It would seem wierd to me to have the rear mg34 on an observation track.
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Come on guy's
It's a Target!
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SPW 251/6's were equiped with FuG11+ FuG Tr 100mw, this had a frame areail, and later a 9meater winch mast.
Later vershions had the FuG19 + FuG12, these set's would I beleave post date the Early war Cross on this example pictured above.
Also I should be able to see the FuG 5 areail but I cant see it in this pick, which leads me to beleave this is just a SPW 251/1 "B", sincne not all of them were fited with radio's, and I have seen several picks of both A's and B's fitted with this Map Table.
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Hear is an example of another SPW 251 with a map table yet again it is a "B".
(http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/39804/0.jpg)
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The 251/6 command and 251/3 radio-vehicles are hard to tell apart. Initially the /3 was "renumbered". From the first days of the war this vehicle is issued to division-commanders and higher ranking officers (often equipped with Enigma coding-decoding device). Later in the war when more vehicles come available they are used more extensively to control formations and for liaison with tank-formations. The early vehicles are relatively rare, but photographed very often. The differences in equipment are enormous. The biggest difference between 251/3 and 251/6 is the office like function of the 251/6 with various decoding and deciphering apparatus. Many radio configurations are seen. Distinguishing is best done by the antenna. Generally speaking the frame-aerial is the one in the beginning of the war. Being to conspicuous it disappears structurally in 1942 in favor of the star aerial and the 8 meter rod-type. Frame antenna's are seen on A,B and C versions. Several front modifications are known. One photograph even shows an antenna from an SdKfz 232 (8 rad). D versions and some C versions are seen with a star antenna. Often a scissors binocular is seen. Late in the war infra-red equipment is reported on the 251/6. This could easily be the 251/18. A field modification often mistaken for the 251/18 is a large platform above the drivers compartment serving as a map table. This is seen on A and B versions only. Since the numbering consisted of up to number 251/12 in 1942 a 251/18 cannot be on a /A body. The frame-version is still seen in 1944. Most D's have the star antenna. Many field-manufactured versions are photographed. Luftwaffe unit's sometimes use the 10 meter "Flivo" pole-antenna. There is a picture of a 251/6 with a S Pzb 41. Some sources separate 5, some 9, versions of radio-equipment.
(http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/3515/251/radio-1.jpg)
Radio configurations that have been described in various documents include:
FuG11 - FuG Tr. (Before 1943)
FuG11 - FuG12 - Kdo.Fu.Tr. with 9 meter pole antenna and frame.
FuG12 - FuG19
Fu.Tr.100Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.80Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.30Mw(gp)
Fu.Tr.15Kzw(gp)
Renumbered 251/3s would have one of several radio configurations:
251/3.1 carrying FU-8 and FU-4
251/3.2 carrying FU-8 and FU-5, the tank formation radio.
251/3.3 carrying FU-7 and FU-1, for air-ground co-ordination
251/3.4 carrying FU11, FU1 and FU12, command version
251/3.5 carrying FU11, and FU1, command version
Given the number of different radio and antenna configurations, as well as the number of one-off conversions done in the field (including 'home-made' frame and spar antennae), we could argue for years over which specific version the vehicle is, and without being able to ask one of the people in the picture we'll likely never be sure.
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It's a Hanomag Sdkfz 251/1, I assume it's mentioned before, but I dont intend to read everything.
Also I've got a whole list with differend types with their functions, only can't post it. (know nothing about webhosting...)
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Shiva, I agree that the radio antena's are most likely the best means for determing the exact type beyond a certain point, my refrence for radio's and antena's indicates that it cant be a 3 or a 6 do to the lack of the frame areails on these early war examples, while the first vehical has no antenas at all it seams clear that it is simply a 251/1 ausf B, the second pick is a bt more confusing in that the atena areay does not in any way match the configurations that a 3 or a 6 would have so most likely it is a 251/1 ausf B that has been modifed with an extrat radio, since both of these 251's are pictured at the same location it is likely they are part of an HQ/ Comand element and it is entierly posable that were simply not seeing their 251/3 or 251/6 comunacations tracks pictured.
They are interesting picks though:)