Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Doug Riech on August 02, 2000, 11:04:00 AM
-
I have an honest suggestion that I SWEAR is not a troll for a flame war!! The ONE thing Fighter Ace had that I think we need, is OXYGEN. If ya wanna hangout above a certain alt, say 14k or so, you must load O2 with a
weight penalty. This would give you 15-20 min of uber-alt-dweeb flight. With
OUT O2, you would nod off(like pilot wounded)
if ya got above 14k. This would add realism, PLUS, for those who have been up for 1/2 an hour, it will bring the fight down to a more
threatening enviornment. Now, I admit, I am guilty (albeit rarely) of the occasional alt
dweebness, I just liked the idea of having to monitor your O2 and modifying your attack plan accordingly. =)
^ Hiding in corner in fetal position waiting for responces,
AKelfy (Doug)
-
That's the best idea I've heard in a long time actually, and would certainly add another level of realism to the game here.
It would also keep guys like Hristos who float around at 30k waiting to pounce on someone from doing it non-stop, and it would be with a performance penalty.
Bring it on with 1.04 I say.
-
I would think O2 would already be counted as part of the combat weight of a plane in AH. Also, are you suggesting O2 only lasts 15-20 minutes? I think all planes would have carried enough O2 to last an entire flight, ie 8 hours for a P-51.
It would be nice to have O2 system damage as part of the damage model, so if you sustained a ping to your oxygen system at high altitude you would have to descend to a safe altitude to avoid blacking out. But since we hardly ever fight above 15k, it wouldn't have much impact in the MA.
ra
-
Yes, I want oxygen too! An I want it damageable - if a tank/hose is punctured, you have to lose alt or lose conciousness.
Could we monitor the head movements, stick movements, consider stick forces in various planes and deduce the pilots exertions?
Without O2 you should be fine even at 20K or higher as long as you are flying straight and level and not moving your head too much. Once you start jumping around a cockpit or yanking on a stick to sleep your go...
miko--
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 08-02-2000).]
-
All for the O2 mod it would also be nice if we had engine temp management, this will keep us from having the throttle pegged for most of the time adding the risk of overheating.
-
If you're looking for the specific inclusion of an oxygen system as a means to limit high alt endurance, that really wouldn't happen. In fact it would probably have the opposite effect. First, it would be hard to run out of oxygen because of the amount carried and second, flying higher would increase your oxygen duration. It's the same principle as in scuba diving, the deeper you dive, the quicker you go through your air due to the increased outside pressure. So if oxygen endurance was a major factor in the game, people would want to fly even higher to extend their supply. But it really can't be made into a major factor due to the long endurance of the oxygen supplies on these planes. The only way it would ever really come into play would be through damage to that system.
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
Oh Pyro .. i'm not so sure about that ...
YOu're breathing pressure O2 and there were only constant flow masks at these times .. you can only draw so much oxygen into your lungs with one inhalation and therfor you'll need to increase your flow with altitude e.g. more Oxygen useage ..
-
Uh... unless you are in a pressurized cabin, Pyro is right.
Yes, you can only draw a certain volume of gas into your lungs at a time. However, the density of that gas will change inverse to pressure. So yes, in a non-pressurized cabin, flying higher would make your oxygen last longer. You are still getting the same volume of gas, but that gas is now much less dense than it was before. The higher you fly, the lower the ambient pressure, the "more" oxygen you have.
BTW, I'm a certified Divemaster as well as a dweeb, so I speak from training and experience. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
-
Lep:
I hope yer not a PADI dweeb (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Damned allied opportunist organisation.
Real men carry CMAS cards (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
-
Pyro's right--the O2 lasts longer at higher altitudes. However, not all planes actually had the equipment installed, charged O2 equipment is heavier than uncharged, and the lack of O2 definitely affects YOUR ability to fly and fight above about 15K or so.
There probably IS some modeling work that could be done here. Increased damage potential and weight penalty if the O2 equipment is installed, and some sort of physical consequences if you take your plane up high without it.
------------------
-
I understand that IRL they had enough for 8 hours , but giving 15 minutes (flat rate regardless of alt) or so would give you limited time as a sputnik wanna be in low earth orbit. Its all about gameplay. Just a suggestion =) Pyro obviously thinks its a loser idea, so Ill just add a DT to my 38 and 51 and head to the stars =)
AKelfy (Doug)
-
"Its all about gameplay." That's FA and Crimson Skies. Here I HOPE it's not all about gameplay by adding in something so unrealistic as 15 minutes of oxygen. Some of the ideas on implementing oxygen for system damage I like. Or models of the P39's and P40's, for instance, that didn't have it? Sure. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Go to 20k and fall unconscience (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 08-03-2000).]
-
here's an idea i had, STAND BACK! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Between 15k-18k if you fly with out an O2 system or a damaged one for 3-4 minutes your control imputs are lagged to simulate the onset of anoxia. Make the change REAL subtle to simulate the dificulty in detecting the onset of anoxia. The longer you fly at those alts the worse it gets. THEN if your above 20k and stay there w/o o2 the anoxia effects happen faster and worse. If you stay there much longer you start the wounded blackout routine. If your plane doesnt fly itself(after your unconsience) to an alt where you can breath, you die in say 1-2 min.
That would be cool (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Udie
[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 08-03-2000).]
-
oops I hit the wrong button (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Udie (edited 08-03-2000).]
-
hi all:
well if you are looking at adding anything to do with O2,start by get the alt right.
for startes, you don't need O2 untill you reach about 17000ft, at that alt you are good with out O2 for about 5 mins, that is when your finger tips and lips will start to turn blue, for you smokers out there, about 3 mins is all you have. now once this all starts to happen, you can bet your awearness of what is going on around you will be reduced. now i dont know how the time factor will change as you go higher up in alt, but i do know from experance that 17000ft above sea level is when you have to start to worry about your O2 level. and for those that want to know what experance i have at 17000ft ASL is, well i used to skydive and have made two jumps from that alt, and those where two of the scariest jumps i have mad, not knowing really what the efects would do to me when it came time to open. but as i am sitting here writing this, it must have worked out ok. but you are ok up to about 17000ft before you need O2. and i am a smoker so the non smokers had a great time watching us smokers turnning blue before they did. i have a video of the second jump around here some place, not sure where it is anymore, kinda forgot about it till reading this post, have to see if i can find it.
well i hope this helps a little bit.
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS
-
That means same as no more buffs above 14k (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
The altitude at which one needs oxygen is not uniform. The 2 main factors are genetics and smoking. A chain-smoking couch potato may need it at 10K, where a healthy person with the right genes may not need any up to 25K. If I'm not mistaken Mt. Everest (29K) was first conquered without the use of supplemental O2. So O2 blackout altitude would have to be arbitrarily chosen by HTC, like the G blackout is.
For you US licensed pilots: the best $20 you'll ever spend is to sign up for a high altitude training class at your friendly neighborhood Air Force base. The FAA and the Air Force co-sponsor these classes for civilians. You learn all about O2 deprivation and spend time at 25K in the altitude chamber. (Passing through about 15K during rapid depressurization everyone in the chamber starts avoiding eye contact as the farts break loose. I wonder if HTC will model farting in the Me-163?) You also learn about other pysiological things like night vision. Highly recommended.
ra
-
FWIW: I believe Norgay & Hillary did use oxygen on Everest, but the mountain has since been climbed without it.
I think O2 inclusion is a clever idea, but it's not real high on my list of wants.
-
Well, climbers on Everest spend weeks acclimatizing their bodies to the high altitude.
For what it is worth, where I skydive, oxygen is required on any lift higher than 3500 meters. That's around 10k-12k or so on foot (I think).
Add another possible damaged part of the plane, all the better. But to reduce it to 15 minutes is too quakeish, IMHO.
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
-
I am a glider pilot who routinely flies up to 18,000 feet, and have gone as high as 36,000 feet in a non-pressurized glider. As I have some first hand experience with WWII vintage US O2 systems, in the spirit of technical accuracy, I feel the need to respond to Pyro's post.
Typical WWII (US) oxygen systems employed a demand type regulator, which also compensated for altitude automatically. Demand type systems, as opposed to continuous flow, provide an oxygen/air mixture at ambient pressure upon each inhalation. In addition, there was a "blinker", or indicator, which confirmed oxygen flow for each breath.
There is also a switch on the regulator to provide 100% O2 flow.
Since air density decreases with altitude, your body requires a higher percentage of O2 in each breath to maintain the same blood O2 saturation level. The regulator compensates for altitude by adding MORE O2 to the mixture for each breath as altitude gets higher. Thus, the O2 consumption rate INCREASES with increasing altitude.
Pyro, you are correct, however, that the amount of O2 carried by these planes would really make it a moot point from the point of view of game play, other than through damage to the system. Another very real hazard for high altitude flight is actually the condition know to divers as the bends.
I once had a hose come loose at 23,000 feet, and knew immediately that something was wrong as the world suddenly got a whole lot "dimmer" on the very next breath. I looked down, immediately reconnected the hose, and the world suddenly got brighter again.
There are charts available which outline the "time of useful conciousness" for a given altitude.
-
what i meant BD but a lot better put (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
Very interesting thread! never even tought about oxygen at hi alt before (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
It really would be cool if you could damage the oxygen tank or an hose from it etc.
Regards
------------------
AH : Maniac
WB : -nr-1-
-
Originally posted by BD:
Since air density decreases with altitude, your body requires a higher percentage of O2 in each breath to maintain the same blood O2 saturation level. The regulator compensates for altitude by adding MORE O2 to the mixture for each breath as altitude gets higher. Thus, the O2 consumption rate INCREASES with increasing altitude.
That's true but eventually even the 'normal' setting automatically delivers 100% at a certain altitude reversing that curve again.
ra wrote:
I wonder if HTC will model farting in the Me-163?
-------
Hehe, reminds me of my first trip to the hypobaric chamber. We were told the day before to avoid eating gas producing foods so that evening my roomate and I went to taco bell and grabbed a dozen bean burritos and a case of beer on the way home. It was amazing. The volume of gas we put out seems like it could have filled a hot air balloon. Of course, nobody wanted to take off their oxygen mask once we got to alt. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
-
LOLOL Pyro (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I went skydiving this summer for the first time in my life. I was, and still ma, a bit appreehensive when I am in the plane.
Then the gas laws took control and *somone* farted. I actually looked forward to getting out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime