Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raubvogel on May 12, 2003, 08:14:18 PM
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I'm considering buying a new Mustang GT with the 4.6L engine. Has anyone had one for a period of time? I'm interested in reliability, gas mileage, maintenance, etc.
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Just say no. Friends don't let friends do Detroit iron.
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Listen to Mr. Funked... he is your friend.
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It's not the best Elk huntin' rig, and doesn't carry sheetrock worth a s**t.
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I have a 99 V6 and I dont think the car is builtb that well at all - my cousind 1995 integra is holding up better. I like my car because i wanted a mustang for a long time but its really not that great a product from ford. Soon they will come out with a 100% brand new stang based on modern components and technologies. The current mustang is built on a development of a cheap 1970s family sedan frame.. :eek: I think the new models will be much better. :D
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What are Mustangs going for nowadays?
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MSRP:
$18,320 - $39,405
From base V6 to Cobra.
Figure a GT coupe in the 24K plus area.
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They allow you to have a mullet in the army now Raub?
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
I'm considering buying a new Mustang GT with the 4.6L engine. Has anyone had one for a period of time? I'm interested in reliability, gas mileage, maintenance, etc.
Don't.
"New" means you lose 3 grand off the lot IF you get it in the sweet spot below sticker, and a Mustang isn't really a Toyota Camry for instance in reliabilty, mtx, or mileage. Just start a thread in the FGB forum, my brother will get you anything from a low miles 5 series BMW, to a 4Runner for dealer cost trade-in rip-off goodness, far
less than a GT. Ive had my GTP for over a year, and it still blue books $2000 over what I paid and beat it for all this time.
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RX7 <----- Mustang killer :D :D
Don't buy a stang. They're so TYPICAL!
if you're gonna spend the money go all out and buy an 4WD Mitsubishi Evo VIII. I guarantee you'll be happy.
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Get a Mini Cooper S. Its cheaper, quicker (well... not close, but I can pretend) and chicks dig it. Plus, it will take corners so hard you can actually eject passengers through the drivers side window.
MiniD
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The Evo VIII is tasty if you're into real driving. The Scooby Doo is looking better these days too.
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I already have a turbo charged Euro car that's expensive to maintain ;) I'm looking for something American that goes thru tires really fast and won't break my bank :)
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The Mustangs are great... had 2 of em and they were relatively troublefree.. Ask any mechanic about mustangs.. they are one of the most reliable cars out there... that's why you see so many of em .. that, and the fact that they are fast... very fast... and rear wheel drive with bulletproof suspensions and and transmissions... no wimpy cv joints or front wheel drive bull..
Mustangs are cheap hop ups... they can be made even faster and better handling. Way more bang for the buck than any other car out there. You will probly have to put a battery in every 3 years and replace rear tires every 5-10 thousand miles... the cars will spin the tires in third. you can replace the shocks every 5 years or so... or not. Smog crap needs replacing every smog check... that gets annoying.
lazs
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get the new Z
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Another thing about the Mustang.. you actually sit upright with a good view of the world. depends on what you want. If you want a fast car that is cheaply customizable and bulletproof plus a ton of fun and very reliable... the Mustang is hard to beat. Rear wheel drive is a must for "real driving".
also... A mustang looks like... a Mustang... all the other cars mentioned look like..... all the other cars.. some have wings tho (snicker).
lazs
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Originally posted by funkedup
Just say no. Friends don't let friends do Detroit iron.
Hey now dont be trash talk Mo town!
But i agree nix the stang idea.
But i do have a friend who has one of the 25th anniversary models hes got that thing so supted up it kill 95%5 of any thing around! (racing chip, head, manifold, racing suspentions and cross welding braceing , new trany) the thing is seriously fast.
One good thing about the stangs is theres a large aftermarket parts selection.
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Go with the stang if you want it, do not base getting it on the subjective advice about Japanese cars being better.
My mom got a 2000 Toyota camery, and it sucks ass. It needs shocks and struts, is under warranty and has less the 20k on it and they WILL NOT COVER it under warranty.
The build quality is no better then my 2002 Chevy Truck and in some cases I would say worse.
My busy has a 99 Toyota Tacoma, I hate it, it is falling apart, it clunks when you step on the gas due to the axle unloading, and it is small inside. My Chevy is a far nicer, more useful truck.
The same guy with the Toyota truck put 275,000 miles on a S10 blazer, and it was a great car, just needed brakes and a radiator.
Go with what you want, the difference is now all perception, not really that much in quality, and I would put the American cars I have owned or own against anything from the Japanese.
Hell I even have a buddy with a 89 stang, lol 150k on it, and it is on the original clutch! I was floored!
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Originally posted by Frogm4n
get the new Z
Dear God... one more reason not to like you... a Maxima with a pointy hood is NOT a sports car!
Anyway - Mustangs arent bad. Im not infinately familiar with them throughout the years (was more of a Corvette fan growing up) but I understand the new SVT's are quite the handful. Older Mustangs of the Cobra variety will go through tires for you pretty quickly, and simple bolt on's free up ponies pretty easily, but I think you need to be a Mustang fan to own one. If it was my decision and I needed an American sports car, I think Id go with the C5 - yeah maybe you see 1 C5 for every 5 cars on the road, but those other 5 cars are all Mustangs. ;)
Or you could come to your senses. There is no substitute. :cool:
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My son works as a mechanic and so knows a lot more about modern iron (plastic) than I do.. he claims that he never sees a Mustang V8 come in with serious mechanical or suspension problems... the toyotas and BMW's have trtash suspension that is expensive to repair/replace.... most front wheel drive cars he says won't come up to specs on the alignment machine without a lot of expensive work.
A stock mustang handles better than 999 out of 1000 people on this board can drive... a couple of thousand dollars worth of parts pretty much takes care of the remainder. that is not a factor... most of the "sporty" cars out there work pretty good right from the factory.... When you want to modify em tho... that's when the Mustang realy shines... different exaust... a chip... air cleaner... throttle body .. instant CHEAP HP... even add a legal huffer for cheap. and the car will hold up... and... In 5 years, people will want to buy it from you hell, they will be lined up... unlike some ultra silly looking car with a gimicky friggin wing that shouts... "look at me I'm a dork who saw 'the fast and the furious and don't know any better'"
Mustangs trancend trendy.
lazs
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
I'm considering buying a new Mustang GT with the 4.6L engine. Has anyone had one for a period of time? I'm interested in reliability, gas mileage, maintenance, etc.
I have a 2000 GT, which is basically the same as the 2003.
Reliability is OK. Not as a good as my 1993 5.0 (which was perfect) but still pretty good, only normal things like shocks, struts, and brakes have needed work.
Gas milage is about 20 MPG for me, and that is with a heavier convertible, automatic, and driving like a nut. It also runs on 87 regular gas, unlike most Japanese sports cars.
Maintenance is normal for a new car. One neat thing is that cars go 100k without a tune up now. New 17" Z rated tires are expensive.
The handling is good, and it is one of the cheapest rear-wheel drive cars that you can buy out there. The main limitation of the mustang's handling is when taking hard corners on bumpy roads, the solid rear axel will tend to 'hop' in those situations. The solution is to not to take corners at high speed on a road that you don't know. Driving in bad weather requires patience, but that is true of any powerful RWD car.
Overall it is a good car for the money. I would suggest trying to find a slightly used 2002 so you don't get so reamed on depreciation, which will happen with every car.
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OMG a sensible and educated response. :)
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Raub,
I thoroughly test drove the Cobra SVT in summer 2001(very similiar to the GT interior wise), even had a deposit written out for it(Until I test drove a BMW 330) One thing that was especially annoying for a guy 6 ft. tall was the fact that the head liner of the convertible roof or the (B-Pillar?) standard roof rested against the side of my head no matter what upright position I had the seat in. You can expect instant death if T-Boned with a situation like that. (My current ride actually has an airbag in that location to protect your head)
2nd turn off was the fact that the back seat probably should have been eliminated from production since its useless, no one could fit back there, not even a child unless they expect to keep their legs up on the seat length-wise.
Ponies were nice, steering not bad (But not BMW either) however the interior was just too cheesy-plastic if you know what I mean...personal thing I guess.
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FWIW the Cobra has independent rear suspension. The live axle in the GT and V6 Mustangs is brutal.
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Also Raub, reliability the last 3 years for Ford Mustang is outstanding in the "recall dept":
2001
VEHICLE DESCRIPTION: PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH MANUAL
TRANSMISSIONS. IF A VEHICLE IS PARKED WITH THE PARKING BRAKE NOT
FULLY APPLIED AND NOT IN FIRST GEAR, AS DIRECTED IN THE OWNER
GUIDE, AND THE SELF ADJUSTMENT PAWL SUBSEQUENTLY SKIPS ONE OR
TWO TEETH, THE VEHICLE COULD MOVE ON SOME GRADES.
Consequence:
THIS COULD RESULT IN UNINTENDED VEHICLE MOVEMENT AND A VEHICLE
CRASH WITHOUT PRIOR WARNING.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL MODIFY THE PARKING BRAKE CONTROL AND INSTALL A
PLATE OR OVER-BRACKET TO THE CONTROL TO LOCK THE SELF ADJUST
MECHANISM IN POSITION FOLLOWING ADJUSTMENT.
Notes:
OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN NOVEMBER 28, 2000. OWNERS WHO TAKE
THEIR VEHICLES TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER ON AN AGREED UPON
SERVICE DATE AND DO NOT RECEIVE THE FREE REMEDY WITHIN A
REASONABLE TIME SHOULD CONTACT FORD AT 1-800-392-3673. ALSO
CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S
AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
2002
None
2003
None
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Well its the only pony car left, so if you like ponycars its your only choice. I personally like the late T/A over the mustang, but unless you want used thats not an option.
As said before in this thread mods are pleantiful and relativly cheap. Just about every part of the car can be replaced w/ aftermarket parts.
A solid rear axle isn't a problem if you're used to it. And anyone who complains about ride quality has no business in a ponycar to begin with.
In the end, its the only car of its type still in production. So, you won't find anything else remotly like it.
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Live axle isn't just a comfort problem. It really screws up handling when there is a bump in a corner. Probably not a big deal unless you are racing in the Mille Migilia or something. :)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
2nd turn off was the fact that the back seat probably should have been eliminated from production since its useless, no one could fit back there, not even a child unless they expect to keep their legs up on the seat length-wise.
LOL No kidding, I took mine out - saves weight and now I actully have a useful trunk. :D
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oops.. forgot about the parking brake.. the damn thing is trash.. even broke mine once. Worst parking brake and best a/c heater controls around.
lazs
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Now Rip,..don't be talking about cheezy plastic stuff. Your BMW has plastic radiator tanks, a plastic thermostat housing, and a plastic water pump impeller which will deteriorate and/or need replacing at about 50K.
Personally, I would not wait that long to replace them as if any of the above components fail, then you are pretty much looking a replacing the head, as it will crack from the sudden change in temperature and heat.
Although the newer engines (>3.0) seem to have improved the area of the head cracking.
:D
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Now Rip,..don't be talking about cheezy plastic stuff. Your BMW has plastic radiator tanks, a plastic thermostat housing, and a plastic water pump impeller which will deteriorate and/or need replacing at about 50K.
Personally, I would not wait that long to replace them as if any of the above components fail, then you are pretty much looking a replacing the head, as it will crack from the sudden change in temperature and heat.
Although the newer engines (>3.0) seem to have improved the area of the head cracking.
:D
INTERIOR Skuzzy, INTERIOR!
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Hehe,..I would rather have cheezy plastic on the interior than under the hood. :D
I don't know about the 93 model. The 2.5 and later sizes use the referenced plastic components under the hood and have a reputation for failure.
Don't get me wrong Rip, I think BMW engineers some fine automobiles, but why on earth they used plastic for some of the most critical components under the hood, is a mystery to me.
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Originally posted by funkedup
Live axle isn't just a comfort problem. It really screws up handling when there is a bump in a corner. Probably not a big deal unless you are racing in the Mille Migilia or something. :)
I might have owned a Mustang if it not for the solid rear axle. I was very disappointed when I first noticed this as I inspected a 5.0 a while back. The car was fast, dam fast. A solid rear axle is obsolete in todays world off independant 4 wheel suspenion in just about every car. Still I remember the Mustang doing fairly well in holding Gs on the skid pad under steady state cornering. I imagine it didnt do as well in the slolam course where its twisting left and right. Perhaps solid sway bars and big GoodYear Eagles allow it to do well on the skidpad. Still I would almost buy it except for the rear suspension.
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I am pretty sure plastic radiator tanks are pretty standard now. I bet 90 % or more of car makers have gone this route.
Have not heard about anyone else going with a plastic water pump impeller though.
:D
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
I am pretty sure plastic radiator tanks are pretty standard now. I bet 90 % or more of car makers have gone this route.
Have not heard about anyone else going with a plastic water pump impeller though.
:D
I'm not up on autos, but boats have been using plastic impellers for years.
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Gto,..I know the overflow tanks are plastic, but BMW is using plastic for the upper and lower radiator pressure tanks.
My Volvo, nor Infiniti have plastic pressure tanks.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Don't get me wrong Rip, I think BMW engineers some fine automobiles, but why on earth they used plastic for some of the most critical components under the hood, is a mystery to me.
Iit was a 93' 525i that sold me on BMW brand. A friend left it at my house and borrowed my truck...he left the keys and said "Drive it..." I was in the camp of "Yeah, catch me DEAD in a BMW, status symbolizer!"....well, I drove it, and quality slapped me in the face, especially cornering! Day 2 of driving this around I was thinking this whole time that the car had low milege, imagine my shock when I read "90,000" miles...and imagine my shock when the owner said "thats 190,000 miles, its turned over once already..." Only thing "Doug" had done to it was tires, brakes, normal wear and tear stuff.
Keep in mind I have no "brand" loyalty, except maybe Ford trucks, had nothing but good luck with Ford Trucks...., and I'm the first to heckle a bad brand, even if I own it. If and when this brand does me bad (Like Audi did) I'll be the first to flame them! ;)
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Skuz Hmm really?
My 2002 chevy truck does, the 2001 cougar I had did, hmm the 2000 jeep wrangler did... lol.
I knew a guy who worked at a radiator shop. He built my 4 row radiator for the GTO, and the one in my old blazer I sold, good work, at cost lol. He did not like plastic tanks cause they where easy to crack when you recored the radiator, but said they where ok, as long as you didnt get to hot as they could melt. But as long as the cooling system is in good working order things dont get that hot.. So I guess the pressure tanks as plastic can be ok, lol darn cost cuts.. hehe
My sister had a 91 Camaro, they had that happen, lol in under 20k.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Iit was a 93' 525i that sold me on BMW brand. A friend left it at my house and borrowed my truck...he left the keys and said "Drive it..." I was in the camp of "Yeah, catch me DEAD in a BMW, status symbolizer!"....well, I drove it, and quality slapped me in the face, especially cornering! Day 2 of driving this around I was thinking this whole time that the car had low milege, imagine my shock when I read "90,000" miles...and imagine my shock when the owner said "thats 190,000 miles, its turned over once already..." Only thing "Doug" had done to it was tires, brakes, normal wear and tear stuff.
Hate to sound like a propeller head all the time but only the radiators housing is plastic (at least on beemers). The core or grill part of the radiator is still aluminum and is fused or appended with the plastic housing during a manufacturing process. Seems solid, havent seen one busted yet. I imagine its easier or cheaper to build these than the welded aluminum ones (aluminum is more expensive to use and weld) and more efficient than other materials non aluminum. All aluminum radiators cost bucks. Besides the core does all of the cooling, the housing just needs to not crack.
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Well, I be darned GTo. You learn something new everyday.
On the BMW, the thermostat housing and water pump impellers are the most likely to fail. The thermostat housing will usually start leaking on the backside, at the base.
The water pump impeller is known to just explode, sending bits of plastic into the water jackets and/or causing the thermostat to stick.
Good news though. All the after market parts are metal.
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The thing I really hate about the 3 series BMW is I CAN'T GET A GUNRACK IN THE BACK WINDOW! :D
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I am sure someone in Dallas, Tx makes a gun rack for the 3 series Rip. :D
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Skuzzy - dont forget the radiator neck issue. :D
Metal impellers are usually listed as updates for the E36 BMW's, dunno about the E46's though.
Every car has its problems/advantages/disadvantages. You want A/C - buy a BMW. You want to buy tires often - buy a Mustang. You want to drive around in a go kart... you do what I did... god help me if I want to turn the AC on though.... ;)
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you should get a TVR :) not sure if they are legal over there yet tho!
(http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=2000_tvr_tuscan_r-1.jpg)
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My car had plastic tanks on the radiator. Until one day i was tuning it in the driveway, and it decided to split and spray me w/ hot coolant.
Its all aluminum now.
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Originally posted by Furball
you should get a TVR :) not sure if they are legal over there yet tho!
(http://www.supercars.net/PicFetch?pic=2000_tvr_tuscan_r-1.jpg)
Geezus what is that smurfy thing? I guarantee a Z06 or Viper will beat the pants off it for less money. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
Geezus what is that smurfy thing? I guarantee a Z06 or Viper will beat the pants off it for less money. :)
Bog standard TVR Tuscan:
0-60 4.2 secs
0-100 9.6 secs
Max speed 180mph
cost ~40K GBP (which given how car prices (e.g. in the rip off stakes) go in the uk prob means ~50-60K US). Not sure how that compares with a Viper. However the Tuscan can actually turn rather than just motor ina straight line...:)
checkout http://www.tvr-tuscan.co.uk/index2.htm#
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Yeah Vipers and Vettes can't turn. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by funkedup
Yeah Vipers and Vettes can't turn. :rolleyes:
They can turn, but not like a Tuscan :)
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I doubt that very much.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I doubt that very much.
That's OK all we need to do is buy a Tuscan and a Vette and drive them along european country roads at high speed to solve the argument. Call me when I have 150K pounds spare :)
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Raub, earn free beer for one evening at next years cons by doing the following:
Test drive your new Mustang GT, then test drive one of the following Pre-owned 100,000 mile extended warranty BMW's in either of the following models:
95-99 M3
or
99(2.8L 328)- 2001(3.0L 330)
Test drive them both on the same road, preferably curves and a straight away. Check your sweep hand on a wrist watch before entering this imaginary "course" you've preset for your test drive. Then post the results and comments. ;)
For roughly the same price (and alittle lower in the 3 series), you get just as nice of bang for buck with good handling to boot. You just have to get over the crap people label you as when you're an owner. ;)
(P.S. Be sure that the 330 2000 or the early 2001 models have the retro-fitted steering, BMW made a BIG mistake by giving their steering the American "power steering feel" and totally screwed up the 3-series, then recalled them all to retro the tradition BMW steering back into them)
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Well, screw you all, I didn't even make it to the Ford dealership. :)
Ended up getting a forest green Mazda Miata hehe.
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Congrats! My $5 bill with Lincoln blinking from the sunlight won't have to see sunlight after all!
Post a pic, what year? If you ever make it up to the Northwest I'll set ya up with the "Roadster Gal" of the Miata club up here, but you'll have to listen to her liberal persuasions ;)
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A Miata, :eek: The hairdresser's Porsche.
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Uncle Sam doesn't pay me enough for a Porsche :)
It's a 1999 with 30k miles.
(http://photostore.automark.net/DealerPhotos/201528/P2119A.jpg)
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But what's that red car in the background, it's not........it is.
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I thought Uncle Sam had a "don't ask don't tell policy".
A new challenger to MiniD's crown as owner of the gayest car in the FDP's!
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Raubvogel,
Get the Mustang GT or the Cobra. It is a true chick magnet. Have fun, don't worry, and try to stay alive, as this too will pass, and soon you will be driving a Honda Accord. ;)
Thorns
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Hairdressers Porsche! LOL! Ooohhh, bet thats gonna leave a mark!
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all this apples and oranges stuff is getting silly... there is the mustang Gt with live axle and there is the cobra with independent.
Also...furball... nice try but.... the TVR doesn't even have bumpers... in order to make it legal here it would probly lose 50 HP and gain 300 lbs...now... buy a lingfelter Vette and I will be more than glad to take your bet. The Vette will have 30-40 mph top speed on your tvr and outaccelerate it and outcorner it and all with the airconditioner on and it will be street legal in 50 states. It will be years ahead of the TVR in all aspects... there are people out there who do the same thing on a limitited basis for the viper and Mustang... even so... they produce more cars than TVR does.
rip... ok.. now... drive a 95 Saleen or a used Roush Mustang against a new BMW and you will feel like you are in a slow, ill handling wuss mobile in the BMW. During the acceleration runs u might even accidentally open the door on the BMW to get out thinking you are stopped if you drive it right after the mustang.
I like australia for cars except that they drive on the wrong side of the road... they make some very well put together hot rods (some of myu buds in the modified Healey club live there and their work is flawless)and... they don't have the corprate restrictions on factory cars we do... the Holden is an American car built in australia and will be the next GTO in the U.S.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
rip... ok.. now... drive a 95 Saleen or a used Roush Mustang against a new BMW and you will feel like you are in a slow, ill handling wuss mobile in the BMW. During the acceleration runs u might even accidentally open the door on the BMW to get out thinking you are stopped if you drive it right after the mustang.
Well, then put that 95 Saleen or a used Roush Mustang up against a Dinan M3 or an Alpina M3 ;) If you're going to stack the odds, do it within class. ;) I'd gladly take a Dinan'ized M3 up against the 95 Saleen or a used Roush Mustang in a track situation other than a 1/4 mile.
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Bottom line. A 03 Mustange GT has a 4.6 lt SOHC V8 pushing 260 HP, and 300 ft lbs of torque. You get to roll around hearing the rumble of a sweet V-8, and chicks just dig them. Now for that you pay around 24K.
Or you can pay 18K for a Honda Civic, which starts out around 118 HP with a V-tech 4 cyl, 90 ft lbs of torque. You can spend another 10K getting it up to 260 HP, and if your lucky 200 ft lbs of torque. You also get to roll around sounding like a bubble bee on crack, and you get a "really cool wing" on your car, that doesnt help get the car off the ground, or keep the car on the ground.
Ricers Suck.
Roush Stage 3
Vortech SQ Supercharger @ 10 psi w/aftercooler
Anderson Power Pipe
42# injectors
3.73 gears
Roush options include complete badging, tool box, seats, floor mats, pedals, chrome wheels, suspension, subframes
UPR cruise control buttons, window/door lock buttons, wiper switch cover, e-brake handle, shifter base bezel, gauge insert
Pioneer DEH-P8400MP CD player/CDX-P1280 12 disc changer,
Billet radiator cap/power steering/washer fluid covers,
Gauge bezel, gauge pod that houses Autometer Phantom guages (air/fuel, boost).
490 RWHP with 422 RWTQ
(http://r1329776.hostultra.com/Uploads/mustang1.jpg)
(http://r1329776.hostultra.com/Uploads/Mustang2.jpg)
(http://r1329776.hostultra.com/Uploads/Mustang3.jpg)
Anytime someone with a "wing" and a barrel full of bubble bees attached to the back of the car, wants to race, let me know.
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Driving in straight lines is for old men.
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straight lines huh?
Roush mustangs were built around a race track, they out turn even the 00 Mustang Cobra R.
http://www.roushperf.com/testdroad.htm
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Originally posted by lazs2
Also...furball... nice try but.... the TVR doesn't even have bumpers... in order to make it legal here it would probly lose 50 HP and gain 300 lbs...now... buy a lingfelter Vette and I will be more than glad to take your bet. The Vette will have 30-40 mph top speed on your tvr and outaccelerate it and outcorner it and all with the airconditioner on and it will be street legal in 50 states. It will be years ahead of the TVR in all aspects... there are people out there who do the same thing on a limitited basis for the viper and Mustang... even so... they produce more cars than TVR does.
A vette outcornering a TVR...... thats utter bull****
Now... you are talking about a Lingenfelter vette.. you shouldn't be comparing it to the TVR Tuscan. You should be comparing it to the TVR Speed 12. Which will outaccelerate, outrun, out-turn the vette.
(http://media9.motorcities.com/00CK8593720593B.jpg)
(http://media9.motorcities.com/00CK8593720593C.jpg)
Drivetrain
Engine 90º V12
Engine location Front, longitudinally mounted
Displacement 7.730 liter / 471.7 cu in
Valvetrain 4 valves/cylinder, DOHC
Fuel feed Fuel injection
Aspiration Naturally Aspirated
Gearbox 6 Speed Manual
Drive Rear wheel drive
Performance figures
Power 800 bhp / 596.8 kW @ 7250 rpm
BHP/Liter 103.5
Torque 881 Nm / 649.8 ft lbs @ 5750 rpm
Power to weight ratio 0.75 bhp/kg
Top Speed 240mph
0-60 mph Acceleration 3.20 s
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Originally posted by Emptygun26
straight lines huh?
Roush mustangs were built around a race track, they out turn even the 00 Mustang Cobra R.
http://www.roushperf.com/testdroad.htm
Dinan Stage 3 BMW M3 would own you on a race track, seen it live out at Pacific Raceways. ;)
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Maybe so, but agin your missing the V-8. Whats a car without a V-8? The BMW M3 is an inline 6 isnt it? You might take me in the turns, but get me on the back straight, where I can make my really long legs run..... and its a whole diffrent ball game.
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Originally posted by funkedup
I thought Uncle Sam had a "don't ask don't tell policy".
A new challenger to MiniD's crown as owner of the gayest car in the FDP's!
He blew right by me for gayest car in the FDBs. Of course, SOB hold's the title for most pimp daddy car in the FDBs.
MiniD
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BTW funked... don't you drive an impreza? If I recall... that "rav4" rental I had blew your POS off the road.
Pozer.
MiniD
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So what if its a V8? As long as it has the hp and torque? What if BMW put a V8 in the M3 would you change your tune then, because it just seems a few of you wanna put down the BMW as a brand...
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Man the limeys aren't real up to date on Vettes and Vipers. They need to watch Le Mans more carefully.
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Bow before me with your puny power outputs and your death shall be quick and painless.
1997 911 Turbo
3.6L F6 TT
400 HP
400 lbs/ft
Rear engine/AWD
6spd Man
0-60 4.0 sec
...STOCK!
Sigh... someday... :(
(http://osf02.ktu.edu.tr/~ulduz/cars/porsche/911turbo.jpg)
PS: Very nice Emptygun.
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Originally posted by Emptygun26
Maybe so, but agin your missing the V-8. Whats a car without a V-8? The BMW M3 is an inline 6 isnt it? You might take me in the turns, but get me on the back straight, where I can make my really long legs run..... and its a whole diffrent ball game.
Yeah, just a (Dinan'd) 380 HP Straight 6 thats about 75 lbs. lighter than your Roush V8...;)
Seriously though, I haven't driven the Roush Mustang, but I have compared the Cobra SVT suspension to the 3 Series (Sports Suspension) and there *was* no comparison, BMW all the way on stock equipment. (I really wanted that Cobra though, American muscle car and all...however, it just didn't fit my requirements)
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LOL! If you Euro types think Vette's and Vipers are "straight line" only cars, you are seriously fooling yourself !! :)
Raub, you actually bought a Miata? Ouchhh..... ;)
Bring it to the CON, and I'll bring my Mustang GT, and I'll show you what your missing. ;) Seriously, mine is a 95 model that I bought new, and its been a great car. Reliable, nice dollar to performance ratio, and just a good little car all around.
The only thing I dislike is the way it eats up expensive tires.
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Originally posted by Vermillion
The only thing I dislike is the way it eats up expensive tires.
Z or ZR rated tires are only good for about 15-25,000 miles at the most. Very soft and sticky. Unfortunately I need new tires (Have you checked out the tirerack.com? Best damn prices anywhere!) Anyway, I'm looking for new ones in June, should only set me back $700.
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Originally posted by Mini D
BTW funked... don't you drive an impreza? If I recall... that "rav4" rental I had blew your POS off the road.
Pozer.
MiniD
How dare you!
I drive a Justy, not an Impreza!
Real men do it with 3 cylinders.
(http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/90810051990001LRG.jpg)
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Originally posted by Vermillion
LOL! If you Euro types think Vette's and Vipers are "straight line" only cars, you are seriously fooling yourself !! :)
They probably corner well. Just not as good as most European types.
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Furball you gotta be kidding me. :)
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nope
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Originally posted by Furball
They probably corner well. Just not as good as most European types.
If you're speaking of factory stock suspensions, they (late model Vettes) have superior suspensions to any BMW brand on the market. If you're speaking Porsche, well, I can't comment on something I know nothing about.
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Furball, the Corvette Z06 is capable of 1g on the skidpad. The Viper is right in the same ballpark as well. They are extremely agile cars and lighter than many of the European supercars, particularly some of the porky Porsches. You brits seem to be hung up on 60's stereotypes of American cars. :)
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some vets and vipers do corner good, some people dont realize how good even the old cars corner,,,i raced my cousins beefed up mazda rotary car,,,down a twisty road country road in my big fat 73 mustang,,,well around 15 mph corners i was keeping my car about 55,,him about 60,,but out of the corners i would out power him badly and pass him every time,,he said his cornering ablity wasnt good anuff to win aginst power and only good cornering,,and this is when i let him lead the race,,when i started first down the road leading the way,,he said he couldnt hang with me,,power made the diffrence<~~so in aces high its like a spittfire racing a fw190d9 down a canon,,the spittfire can out turn the fw,,,but the fw turns just good anuff to use its power and speed to win the race
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furball... there are levels of lingfelter vettes... you seem to be missing the point... you are trying to compare a car with allmost no production numbers against and assembly line Corvette that cost half of the tvr and then... when I say it would be better to compare a limited (tho still not as limited as the tvr) and LEGAL to drive lingfelter vette that still costs less than the TVR you cry foull and want to compare a special handbuilt tvr with allmost NO production...so I say ok... the vett can still beat that with the 1250 HP dual turbocharged linfgfelter 6 speed that is less money and higher production than the tvr.. Pick a level of tvr and I can find a vette or viper that will beat it in every category.... including cost and sophistication. I see lot's of vettes in production class races but I don't see many tvr's.... don't see any winning. soory bud... GM put millions into research on their suspension... it is one of the best if not the best of any productin car.
rip does the same thing... he takes bmw's that cost twice as much and compares em to assembly line Fords and Chevies... When you up the anty a little he resorts to BMW's that are race cars that are never seen on the streets. And stilll.... give me that money and I will build a Mustang that will beat it.
as funked said... you guys are living on legend that dates back to the sixties. I don't know what courses you guys think the vettes and Roush Mustangs can't corner at... I don't know what course a comparably priced BMW could compete with a Roush Mustang unless..... it is that horshoe driveway course in front of the country club where pink cashmere sweaters are the norm instead of nomex.
lazs
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Hum, Mustang or BMW for racing or driving on the track. I would probably take the street modified Mustang because the idea of a car that likes to use up its tires quickly appeals to me.
Now for pure factory build race cars I would take the beemer of course.
:D
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Raubvogel, Welcome to the Miata clan :D Now, go sign up on Miata.net. Also got out and buy a Flying Miata FM II Turbo..and a few other toys!!
FM II Turbo, pumps out est 200 plus pony's enough to skunk any junkie that thinks a Miata is a lamers car :D
If you have any questions about upgrades e-mail me. I can point you in the right direction. Or what is not safe to get.
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Man the limeys aren't real up to date on Vettes and Vipers. They need to watch Le Mans more carefully.
Come on. Compare like for like. A race modified car, equipped and tuned up by a professional team is not the same car I could buy out of a dealership.
Can I buy a TVR Tuscan Speed 6 from a normal TVR dealer? Yup.
This lingfelter thing sounds like a specialised shop.
A good comparison would be the best TVR production model (i.e. showroom) versus it's contemporary vette or viper. Not externally altered cars like the Speed 12 or the lingfelter etc.
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Dowding that's true, but the class of racing that the Vipers have dominated uses cars which are very similar to the stock cars, and are sold directly by Dodge.
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you can buy lingenfelters or ruuff's or Roush or saleens from most dealers and you will get a factory waranty plus the specialty waranty. You will still spend less than the TVR and you will be able to own the car in any state.
lazs
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From most dealers? That sounds a bit restrictive to me. I can buy the top of the range Tuscan from any TVR dealer - I'm talking about the equivalent vette or viper.
As for the 'legal in any state' - that's a moot argument. I bet several of those cars are illegal over here, like the TVRs are illegal over there apparently. Comparitively, I can drive a TVR in any part of Britain, just as you can drive your cars anywhere in the US.
I'd seriously like to see the Tuscan Speed 6 go up against a top of the range corvette or viper on a decent track. Shame I've never anyone do it.
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"you can buy lingenfelters or ruuff's or Roush or saleens from most dealers and you will get a factory waranty plus the specialty waranty. You will still spend less than the TVR and you will be able to own the car in any state.
lazs"
That too. :)
I'm sure the TVR is a great car. But the limeys' arrogant assumption that there aren't US cars as good in performance handling is just silly.
PS We didn't even get into the really extreme machines like the new Saleen or the Mosler. :)
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Originally posted by Dowding
From most dealers? That sounds a bit restrictive to me. I can buy the top of the range Tuscan from any TVR dealer - I'm talking about the equivalent vette or viper.
There are probably more Dodge and Chevy dealers than there are TVR cars built each year.
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That's not my point. There must be a reason why only 'most dealers' can offer those models.
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Because there are a zillion Chevy and Dodge dealers and demand does not justify offering the special cars at every dealer. We are talking very limited production supercars here, just like the TVR.
In any case, a bog standard Viper SRT-10 or Corvette Z06 would have no problem hanging with a TVR on any track.
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A Porsche would be my weapon of choice for road or track.
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stock as a rock the 1965 ac cobra still holds the records for fastest production car ever made,,,427 sideoiler,,goes from 0 to 100 back down to 0 in 13 seconts,, guinness book of world records last i checked:)
and for a allmost 40 year old car,,that aint too shabby to still hold records:D
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Dear God... one more reason not to like you... a Maxima with a pointy hood is NOT a sports car!
LOL you got to be kidding me!!
I will put my 350z up against a GT mustang any day.
sock fer stock.
The Z will far out handle the GT.
And it's pretty fast as well.
have you ever driven one?
(http://home.attbi.com/~c.hambleton/wsb/media/134502/site1029.JPG)
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there are more ford and Chevy dealers in one state thatn there are tvrs produced in a year. face it... little limey cottage industry cars can't compete.
I don't think a Mustang cobra would have any trouble beating that datsun on any course I can think of.
lazs
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I'm not so sure about that Laz!
i having used to work at a Ford dealer have driven the cobras,
lightnings,ect
And I am amazed at the G's I pull In the 350z.
Now at only a tic under 300hp from the factory remember this is a V-6 engine with no blower on it like the Cobra has.
And I don't even have the track model with the 18" wheels and the brembo brakes!
In a straight line race the Cobra would take the 350Z I have little doubt of that.
But put the two cars on a tight road course and it might just surprise you.
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RC, I've driven the new 350Z at one of our Autocrosses and I'd rather drive a 'stang. I'm quiet disaponted in the handling of the car which I thought was 'lacking'.
But, then I drive a Miata with an agressive suspension setup so its difficult to compare the heavy weights to such a light car.
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I'd love to race Rip, easygun, and rc51. Not saying I'd win but I'm sure it would be fun.
My car doesn't have a V8 though....in fact I don't have any cylinders ;)
(http://www.jblong.com/files/rx7.jpg)
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Originally posted by Vipermann
I'd love to race Rip, easygun, and rc51. Not saying I'd win but I'm sure it would be fun.
My car doesn't have a V8 though....in fact I don't have any cylinders ;)
(http://www.jblong.com/files/rx7.jpg)
I have driven the rx-7
NO THX dude LOL
that was the best car Mazda ever built bar none.
They were silly for stop making that car!!
The new rx-8 is a TURD compared to the 7.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
I'm considering buying a new Mustang GT with the 4.6L engine. Has anyone had one for a period of time? I'm interested in reliability, gas mileage, maintenance, etc.
Mustang GT what a great car!!! What year? 99 and up are very nice. Acutally best GTs ever made(96-98 were weak).Stock car will do 13.9 in quarter mile. 8.8 Rear axle great for drag racing, not bad overall handling.Good transimission as well.
Engines are rock solid can take plenty of abuse, will last long time and have great torque curve. Good fuel economy (for V8 SOHC). Ok brakes. Plenty of parts available, aftermarket is HUGE.
If buying new, also look into 2003 Mach 1(GT and cobra blend), cobra engine (Naturaly Aspirated), with 8.8 solid rear, very nice car with shaker ram air hood. Fast too (faster and lighter then 99-01 Cobras, underrated engine with lots of torque in the low end, very nice retro package).
Interior in any mustang leaves something to be desired, seats arent the best (expect leather to wear out in 2-3 years)
Lots of plastic, not the best fit, etc etc.. but hey its a muscle car it fills that role very well.
Now, If you have $30-33K to spend, get 2003 Cobra.. that is a monster!! If you want 500HP daily driver for less then $35K this is your ticket. Engines bulletproof, 6spd vette tranny, etc etc..
Any more 4.6L Qs just ask away :)
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there are more ford and Chevy dealers in one state thatn there are tvrs produced in a year. face it... little limey cottage industry cars can't compete.
Eh? We're talking about Yank car performance, straight from the showroom and not production numbers providing the car is available from any dealer. Sounds like a fair set of conditions.
I'll pick a random corvette dealership in the US walk in and ask to order the top of the range model. You do the same in a TVR garage over here. We'll ship them to silverstone after they've been run in, add slicks, and get some pro driver to throw them around the track.
TVRs would compete, believe me. And you know it.
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Post them along with the numbers on the TVR....
Based solely on Gran turismo2 and 3, lol the playstation game, (lol I know its a game but it got rave reviews for realism) The TVR is a turd!
:)
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lol :D
Tuscan Speed 6:
(http://www.b-link.co.uk/talkingtvr/tuscan/tuscan16large.JPG)
Tuscan R:
(http://www.b-link.co.uk/talkingtvr/gallery/tuscan_r/tuscan_r01.jpg)
(http://www.b-link.co.uk/talkingtvr/gallery/tuscan_r/tuscan_r02.jpg)
Looking for stats now. But Tuscan R is 450 BHP and 200+ mph and Tuscan Speed 6 is 360 BHP.
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Do they come in colors other then "turd in oiley water"
:) :D :D :D
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(http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_gallery/tus-r-06.jpg)
(http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_gallery/tuscan_s_03.jpg)
(http://www.tvr-webmart.co.uk/tvr_gallery/tus-r-07.jpg)
How about those? :)
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FWIW, I still plan to own a Cobra someday...at the time, it was just not the car I needed for A)Commuting B)Gas milege C) Rear seat capacity.
This past week-end we took a 800 mile trip with the 3'er. Trunk full of suitcases and a small cooler, 2 adults, 2 kids....it was at this moment that I finally came to peace with myself that I'd made the right decision on a Commuting/Family car. (Except for the speeding ticket! :D)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~ripsnort/BMW/BMWporfile.jpg)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~ripsnort/BMW/frontshot.jpg)
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Ya got it backwards Dowding, I fixed it for ya. ;)
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/tus.jpg)
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Originally posted by rc51
LOL you got to be kidding me!!
I will put my 350z up against a GT mustang any day.
sock fer stock.
The Z will far out handle the GT.
And it's pretty fast as well.
have you ever driven one?
rc51 - I understand youre commitment to your purchase, but I dont think the 350Z holds true to the bloodlines of the Z's before it.
First off, I dont own a Mustang. Never have, probably never will. From the little experience I have in the cars, I can say with confidence that I would NOT want to be in one on the track. 1/4, outstanding potential... but on a road course, no way. Too heavy, period.
I have driven a 350Z and I was comparing it to my, at the time, "tastefully" modded 944 Turbo and a buddy of mine's 95 E36 M3 (stock). What we found in real world "testing" is that the 944 Turbo was the fastest in straight line acceleration by boatlengths, with the E36 M3 edging out the 350Z by about 1 1/2 car lengths from 0-100.
In terms of its "feel" I was of the opinion that the 350Z was a fantastic touring car, much like an E46 M3 or a C32 AMG (without the power obviously) but not a sports car. It felt disconnected to me, no sterring feel, no pedal feel, and no feedback from car to driver.
Perhaps if Nissan (or Nismo) introduces a bi-turbo version, then it may be the car to knock the Supra off its "way too much torque for my own good" high horse.
Until that time, if its a Z car I need, Ill take an old 240Z any day of the week. Fun, fast, nimble, and confident on the track. Id put money on a 240Z running circles around a 350Z on just about any short road course in the states with a decent driver.
When youre talking about road racing, you need about 10 different things to succeed, horsepower comes in at the very bottom of that list.
YMMV
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lol! :D Good one.
I reckon driving one of those would very much be like making love to a beautiful woman. (British audience joke there :D)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
When youre talking about road racing, you need about 10 different things to succeed, horsepower comes in at the very bottom of that list.
YMMV
Good post, however I'd rate HP about the middle of the list. "Handling" via suspension I'd rate the highest. The ponies don't do you no good if you can't handle the car. ;)
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But the interiors look like something out of a bad Sci fi movie... yikes..
I wonder if it is as uncomfortable as it looks?
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Originally posted by Vipermann
I'd love to race Rip, easygun, and rc51. Not saying I'd win but I'm sure it would be fun.
My car doesn't have a V8 though....in fact I don't have any cylinders ;)
Viperman - AWESOME car! Im not much for Japanese cars, but I have to admit the last generation RX7 is a favorite of mine... I know better than to line up next to one. :D
I also see youre in PA, I saw a black RX7 only a few days ago driving around - wonder if it was you.
Anything done to it? How is the Wankel holding up?
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PS: For those spouting off about a V8 being necessary in a "sports car" click and save - enjoy.
87 951 (no, not mine) vs. 96 SVT Cobra
http://members.rennlist.com/dan8795...1vs96Cobra1.mov
http://members.rennlist.com/dan87951/87951vs96Cobra.mov
http://members.rennlist.com/dan8795...1vs96Cobra3.MOV
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Dowding... you can walk into any corvette dealership and get a 450 hp vette 6 speed. I will bet that any corvette dealer in the world would take your order for a lingenfelter. TVR was a brave effort but it just can't compete.
I would like to see a series that pitted cobra Mustangs against 350 datsuns and bmw's but... it doesn't exist. The mustangs are in a different production class... they are faster.. wouldn't be fair.
I never drove the 350 datsun but I drove the one before that and it was said to be a mustang killer too... I got that 'disconnected' feeling from it and... I couldn't see well out of the car and it plowed. brakes were very good... well balanced. haven't driven a new cobra but drove a 98 saleen.. It was allmost scary capable.. C5 corvettes are so good that you hardly have to know how to drive to go around corners in em.... Drive one if you want to know what a 1g corner feels like. It's not what you would expect.
All the cars mentioned are more capable than we are. They have different pluses... the BMW is refined with good solid feel and comfort... the cobra is brutal fast with tight racy feel suspension... the vette is starwars sophisticated and omigawd fast.. z cars are good value and will probly hold up well with good jap electronics and bulletproof engines... the viper is ... well... a viper.
The thing that puts the U.S iron ahead for me is the fact that it is so easy to make it your own.. hop up stuff is readily availabel and cheap.. the motors respond easily to such work. For many.. that is not important.. they want the car to be the best it can be right off the showroom floor and will never change a thing. Ultimate capability is nothing to them. sooo..
to each his own.
lazs
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keep in mind that the base price of the Z is 10k cheaper than the cobra.
And again they make several versions of the Z.
I have the touring model.
But you really must DRIVE the track model to get a good feel for the cars potential.
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Lazs, yer right about the 'Stang being set in a different race than BMW but wrong because the 'Stang is slower around the track even with more ponies. This 2.5 yr. old article explains why the cobra is better but from the perspective of " Price no object, the BMW M3 is the better car. But how many of us can claim that price is no object? :
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43909/page004.html
But your right about "different strokes for different folks"
RC51, this is my "Track" where I test drove the Cobra and the 330, 16 curves with a straight away (1 mile long) total course of 7 miles, no ditch, no blind curves and 3 "humps" where you can get the change on your dashboard suspended in mid air without leaving the ground... if you bite it, you're in a cow pasture with scratches from barbed wire(gotta make a worthy penalty for bad handling ;) ) Its 1 mile from where I live and it calls my name out at night ;)
(http://home.earthlink.net/~ripsnort/BMW/MtRainier.jpg)
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Viperman - AWESOME car! Im not much for Japanese cars, but I have to admit the last generation RX7 is a favorite of mine... I know better than to line up next to one. :D
I also see youre in PA, I saw a black RX7 only a few days ago driving around - wonder if it was you.
Anything done to it? How is the Wankel holding up?
I live in Fleetwood, PA. It's between Reading and Allentown. If it was any other state I'd say it was me for sure since there aren't many 3rd Gen's left, but in PA there are more than normal since some of the best rotary mechanics are in PA.
The car has 117k on it. The engine was replaced when I got it since the previous owner didn't realize that for a radiator to work there needs to be fluid in it. Wankel's loathe heat and one ping is enough to blow an Apex seal. So far I've had no problems, change the oil every 2k, 32k on the new engine and still purring.
The engine was street ported, new turbo's ported, full exhaust-all Stainless since it's like the fires of hell coming out the back, new intake for the turbos.
New radiator(a bit larger), new intercoolers, and larger injectors and fuel pump.
My only complaint about the car is the suspension, it's sooo hard, but it's great for the track.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
(http://home.earthlink.net/~ripsnort/BMW/MtRainier.jpg)
Looks like someone should be riding that road on a cafe racer that says "Raaaaaaaaineeeeeerrrrr Beeeerrr"
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Originally posted by AKIron
Ya got it backwards Dowding, I fixed it for ya. ;)
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/tus.jpg)
Nice ergonomic design.
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Originally posted by Vipermann
I'd love to race Rip, easygun, and rc51. Not saying I'd win but I'm sure it would be fun.
My car doesn't have a V8 though....in fact I don't have any cylinders ;)
(http://www.jblong.com/files/rx7.jpg)
Cool, you would take me off the line, and in the turns, but on the straights, you would be mine. Growing up I worked for Downing Atlanta Racing in Atlanta. We had 3 and 4 rotor Mazda Kuzu Can-Am cars. We also had a few RX-7s we ran. When Mazda Speed shut down in the early 90s, we made some of the preformance parts are selfs. We ran a 97 RX-7 in the Rolex 24 in Daytona in 98 placed first in our class.
Before I left to join the Army, I had worked my way up as a test driver. We also had a few programs where we suped up BMW Z3s, adding super chargers to the 4 cly motor, which gave us more HP than the 6 cyl and better fuel econmy. We also did a pkg set up for Mazda Maitas, and while there not fast, I dont know many cars that can beat one in the turns. We had a 320HP MX5 that could blow most other cars off the road.
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i seen some mazda rotory's built up too 450 horses,,but they were locktite motors at that point,,and main seals allways blows out,,,plus one more bad thing about the rotary is it pulls crude motor oil from the block to burn on the rotors like a 2 stroke motor bike,,thats why they can get so many rpms,,but very destructible by the time you build them up that far and cost you a ton! he charged atleast 20,000!! for 400 horses,,,,good fast little cars,,just not dependible,,,for your dollar,,its impossible to beat a v8,,,heck some sites are tearing out rotor motors in 80's and 90's mazda's and sticking in ford 302's and runing stock 12 sec,,and only loosing about 200 pounds
madza is ford now,,plenty of cheap conversion kits,,just flip over the main cross member and the hole motor fits under the hood,,you can build safely too 500 horses and keep your price about 10,000,,lol,,and a mazda with a 500 horse v8 is unbeatible,,car still light<~~my cousin is going to do it,,just to have a cheap muscle car,,that will blow the doors of a dodge viper!!,,hehehe
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What Saurdaukar said, Porsche is the best withouth doubt.
Not only roadhugging and stylefull these cars are engineered on reliability and endurance.
all others are just ugly and piece of **** compared to the 911 model.
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Originally posted by hyena426
i seen some mazda rotory's built up too 450 horses,,but they were locktite motors at that point,,and main seals allways blows out,,,plus one more bad thing about the rotary is it pulls crude motor oil from the block to burn on the rotors like a 2 stroke motor bike,,thats why they can get so many rpms,,but very destructible by the time you build them up that far and cost you a ton! he charged atleast 20,000!! for 400 horses,,,,good fast little cars,,just not dependible,,,for your dollar,,its impossible to beat a v8,,,heck some sites are tearing out rotor motors in 80's and 90's mazda's and sticking in ford 302's and runing stock 12 sec,,and only loosing about 200 pounds
I know people are pulling them and putting in V8's and it sickens me. Nothing worse than walking up to someone to talk about their RX-7 to find out they bastardized the car with pistons and cams.
As far as reliable, rotaries are extremely reliable, you just need to take care of them. I'm only around 70HP off 450 and mine is a daily driver.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Looks like someone should be riding that road on a cafe racer that says "Raaaaaaaaineeeeeerrrrr Beeeerrr"
You either remember the post, or the commercial...which is it? :)
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Anyone have 20mb space on a website i can upload a video clip to?
Nice clip of a TVR Cerbera annihilating a Viper (+ many more) in a race.
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Originally posted by Furball
Anyone have 20mb space on a website i can upload a video clip to?
Nice clip of a TVR Cerbera annihilating a Viper (+ many more) in a race.
send it to me and I'll host it for ya. jgruber@jblong.com
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thankyou! im downloading it at the moment, i have a few more too if u want em!
Also when u yanks say track, do you mean: -
"Track"
(http://www.skypic.com/sports/5-5037.jpg)
or Track
(http://www.f1-tickets-online.com/images/circuits/britainmap.gif)
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furball... I have no doubt that some tvr driver somewhere can anialate some viper driver. I can show you clips of subarus beating SS camaro's and honda civics beating cobras in the 1/4 mile... that doesn't mean honda civic are faster than cobras. The only test I ever seen of a tvr was in some brit version of autoweek and it was pulling like .87 on the skidpad which is not even in the same league as a viper much less the 1 g c5 vette... maybe they do it different over there but... I want to see a side by side test of one against a vette... even a "regular" vette
As for V8 conversions... why not? cheap HP and.... torque.. torque is what you feel when driving torque is why the old 427 Cobra was so mind blowing... 450 hp with 300 lbs torque at 5000 rpm is not the same thing as 450 hp and 650 lbs of torque at 2500 all the way to 6000. you can build a 500 hp small block v8 for 3 grand or buy one allready done for around 5 grand. Alluminum heads, manifolds, water pumps radiators etc are common now the weight is low on V8 converted cars. My healey is an extreme example but my V8 and muncie 4 speed weigh 40 lbs less than the stock healey 4 banger and bizzare overdrive original drivetrain.
lazs
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send em all. I'll host em for anyone that wants to see em.
As for the tracks, they are both tracks but the second one would be much more fun :)
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furball.. do you realy believe that we don't have any race tracks other than circle tracks? No wonder you figured some cobbled up tvr was gonna impress us.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
furball.. do you realy believe that we don't have any race tracks other than circle tracks? No wonder you figured some cobbled up tvr was gonna impress us.
lazs
no laz, i was simply asking what track u meant
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How bout .... it wouldn't matter.
lazs
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hmmm.. i cant e-mail it, i only have a hotmail account, is there another way to send it please?
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And laz, im getting a video clip now of a Vette vs. a little Lotus Elise on a race track, be interesting to see how they compare!
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furball... no need. All you really have to do is check the track records for production cars and compare lap times. I like the lotus... neat little car but... The course better be REAL short for the lotus to win.
A bunch of us V8 healey guys got beat in an autocross by 4 cyl sprites.. our best V8 time was at least a second off (34 vs 33)the best sprite time and a 4 banger trailer queen healey beat us all with race tires... no V8 guy could get out of first gear on the track... no straight was longer than about 60 feet.
lazs
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Rip:
I certainly remember the commercial. BTW what road is that?
Hooligan
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yup laz, i just thought it looked pretty cool, found it on this website : http://www.racingflix.com/home.asp
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furball email me at the address I gave and I'll tell you what to do
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Furball: Some American "language" for you.
"Track" = Road Course - 1-3 miles in length, multiple turns, etc.
"Strip" = Drag Strip - 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing. Straight line.
"Oval" = NASCAR - 3 - 4 turns, high speed.
At least thats how I think of it.
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ahh i see! thx for that Saurdaukar!
just uploading 3 videoclips to Vipermann's FTP, they are really good. Especially the McLaren F1 clip - its nine and a half minutes long and tells you all about production etc. then they take it onto the racetrack.
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Here are the links to the movies Furball sent
TVR vs Espirit (http://www.jblong.com/files/Top Gear TVR vs Espirit_911_Vantage_Caterham_Viper.mpg)
Mclaren (http://www.jblong.com/files/mclaren%20top-gear%20on%20bbc.mpeg)
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theres another on the way too.
Link will be:
http://www.jblong.com/files/Top_Gear-TVR_Tuscan.mpeg
thankyou for letting me upload them Vipermann!
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Just watch the 24 hours of Le Mans if you want to see Vipers beating the pants off all sorts of eurotrash.
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Audi came 1st, 2nd and 3rd last year and Bentley are leading this years testing? so what Le Mans are you watching?
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Furball the Audis are in the prototype class for pure racing cars. ("LM" P 900)
The Viper regularly dominates the production based classes.
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ahhh.. i see, fair enough!
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Rip:
I certainly remember the commercial. BTW what road is that?
Hooligan
230th ave. that turns into 246th, that eventually runs into the Old Buckley highway. I've certainly been on better curvey roads, but for something that is "on the way to the store, just off the beaten path", its great! :)
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However, I just looked at the FIA GT standings and the Le Mans qualifying results, and it looks like there is a new sherriff in town. The Prodrive Ferrari 550 appears to be the car to beat this year.
Looks like there are plenty of American cars in the field though. Riley & Scott, Viper, Corvette, Saleen, and Panoz. Too bad Mosler doesn't go to Le Mans.
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yeah, didnt Panoz do really well last year?
Was very impressed by them
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Panoz is almost always quick. I think they are only in the prototype classes now with the Elan. They used to campaign the Esperante road car in the production classes but I guess not anymore.
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Do they make road cars? i had never heard of them before Le Mans
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Yep they make the Esperante road car.
Other fast Yank road cars are the Saleen and the Mosler.
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hey rip... didn't a Lincloln just beat the BMW in slolom and handling side by side testing?
funked... yeah.. mosler is a monster.
On the tvr..... what engines are they using these days? are they still powered by buick motors?
lazs
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Have you checked out the videos furball posted? One of them shows a stock TVR Cerbera beating a Viper over a mile drag.
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hmm... what a great car dowding... seems that it should do better at the track... I mean, they should be king of the hill in production racing. How many lemans events have they won so far again?
Still... I am proud of the old 64 buick engine. Imagine if the TVR had an even more capable American engine.
lazs
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The TVR Cerbera began life in the early summer of 1993 as a styling exercise by TVR's team of designers, who were very quickly given the go-ahead to start building full scale models. They sculpted the car out of full-size blocks of foam rather than being constrained by the two dimensions of a paper sketch or the dehumanising aspects of design by computer.
Since then, almost every aspect of the car has been improved. Originally, the Cerbera was designed to be powered by the TVR Power Rover based engines but it was decided that TVR's own engine, the Speed Eight, would be a more suitable power plant. The Cerbera was the first roadgoing TVR to feature the Speed Eight engine.
This engine is quite remarkable In design in that it owes more to the current trend in racing engines than to anything that has ever been seen before In a road car. In other words, instead of basing a race engine on an existing road engine,. TVR have developed an engine for the Cerbera out of a race engine. The result is that the Speed Eight has many features in it which would be more commonly found on an F1 engine. Examples of these are its extremely sophisticated water circulation system, its lubrication system which delivers oil at high pressure to the engine and at low pressure to the crankshaft and a block so rigid that it can be used as a stressed member. An all alloy engine with its eight cylinders arranged in a 75 degree Vee, the Speed Eight engine has more torque in its various specifications than any other normally aspirated petrol engine of equivalent size and weight.
At 121 kg, the engine is indeed lighter than the V8 F1 and F3000 engines with which it shares so many features. Many Speed Eight engine components are of extremely high quality such as the pistons and connecting rods which are forged and the camshafts which are rifle bored and are made of solid billet EN40B steel. The net result is that the Speed Eight has performed extremely well in the most gruelling test known to engineers: to give forty of them to TVR Tuscan racing drivers to try to blow up every weekend for the past five seasons.
You were saying? The Speed 8 engine is designed and built in house.
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where was this quote from? so... up until now... all the TVR's used Buick engines? and now they are claiming to have the best engine in the business?
GM builds formula V8 motors too.. Have for decades. TVR allmost went out of business because they were junk... they had so many warranty claims (sorta like jag).
besides .... you guys really don't want to compare wimpy cottage industry limey cars like the TVR with manly U.S. cottage industry cars like the lingenfelter and mosler now do you?
Mosler MT900s
carbon fiber body shell
2200 lbs (1980 for the Photon)
435 hp ls6 chevy engine
porche 6 speed
0-60 in 3.30
11.4 quarter mile.
2 GTS cars competed in the Rolex 24 at Daytona and finished third and fourth in GTS class
web site is http://www.mt900.com
lazs
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Woo Panzo Esprantae.. Miata on 'roids heheheh with a heavy price tag. One thing you have to get over is the tacky interior with the 'pod' style speedo. Great looking car..
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http://www.21stcentury.co.uk
"Up until now"? As far as I know TVR has producing bespoke engines from its own designs for decades. Perhaps you are harking back to the seventies... disco died BTW.
British racing/sports car design is among the best in the world.
Wimpy cottage industries? If you are wanting to play trump cards, at least use the same deck and bother to read the cards. The small British design bureaus provide some superb cars - take the Speed 12 for starters.
BTW, we all remember the quality Yank cars over here. We love the Ford Mondeo and the Vauxhall (GM owned) Vectra is a "phenomenon". Thanks. And that PT Cruiser? Looks like a bag o' bollocks.
Want to play some more trump cards? The fun neverends.
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Dowding most of the "bespoke" TVR motors were the V-8 design that Rover licensed from Buick back in the 1960's. Sounds like they have started to design their own motors now, good for them.
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I never heard of a TVR til this thread. Granted if I was still sixteen and read road and track or motor trend every month I probably would know all about a TVR. But who really cares? Do you own one dowding? Why the big fuss?
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Wow somebody else must have been asking the same questions:
http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/features/engines/
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Funked - that's why I mentioned the seventies. But it seems for the last 15 years they moved to their own motors.
HBlair - No-one really cares. But why the big fuss over Moslers? Does Laz own one?
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Dowding, I think the Chimaera still uses the Rover/Buick motor.
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True. But the Cerbera doesn't. And that's the car that beat the Viper over the mile long drag, I believe, so it's a decent motor.
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The old TVR's used Ford/Buick/Rover engines. These were unreliable and the newer TVR's use in house engines. This is probably due to the fact that they can now afford to make and develop their own.
The Chimaera and Griffith do not use in house engines because they are the old designs (along with Cerbera) that made TVR so popular now. I think they are no longer in production apart from the Cerbera.
You probably havent heard of TVR before because until more recently they were quite rare. Probably like Bristol, Noble, Lister and Caterham - which you may also not have heard of but make fantastic cars.
I only knew about them because my Dad used to really like them. Recently they have become very popular and are making much more cars because they can spend much more on development. So they do not have a long history like Aston Martin or someone.
This is why they are not in Le Mans, im not sure but i think they may have been thinking about entering the Speed 12 into the race. Speed 12 regularly beats cars in higher classes (including vipers etc.) of the Supercar race championships (cant remember its proper name)
TVR stands for 'Trevor' btw - the man that formed the company :)
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The Cerbera definitely uses the in-house designed and built Speed 8.
I like them because they are plucky little company making great cars; they are very successful considering the competition.
And there is a TVR dealership on my way to work, so I get to see them everyday. :)
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I'm more of a Lotus man myself. I'd really like either a Seven or one of the high powered Elise variants.
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I live within spitting distance of a Lotus dealership. Exiege is a really nice car, like a souped up elise with air intake on the roof and spoiler on the back.
Lotus Espirit Turbo's are nice too, dont see many anymore tho!
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There's a Suburu dealership near the TVR garage. I used to marvel at that special edition they produced a while back. RB-22? I can't remember - some kind of Burns rally related promotion.
They've got some nice cheap, good condition Turbo 2000s down there now - only 14 grand. But it's the insurance I can't afford - don't hit the magic 25 year old marker until July and even then there isn't much of a reduction. It seems like a 30+ y/o car these days. Very stealable too.
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So this is why the speed 12 didnt reach Le Mans :-
It had been intended to run the car in the Le Mans 24 hours. It's not clear why the Speed 12 didn't make it to Le Mans but a contributory factor may be that the FIA governing body required its horsepower reduced to 660bhp from the 700-800bhp being quoted.
from http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/speed12.htm
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damn dowding! i thought u were atleast 40!
And you need a car with a nice big backseat for when u park in those motorway layby's.......... :D
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Furball the Le Mans rules really restrict the larger engines. Viper (8 liters) is subject to the same rules. Some of the Viper street variants have more power than the Le Mans version. I think this might be why cars like the Corvette and the Ferrari Maranello are now taking over the GT classes. They have smaller displacement (~5 liters) so they don't get penalized as much by the rules. Basically when somebody dominates their class for a while, the Le Mans organizers change the rules to screw them. :)
Same thing happens with the WRC cars too BTW. The WRC cars are limited to about 300 hp. But there are plenty of road versions of the same cars (e.g. Impreza and Lancer) pushing 400+ hp. Fortunately in WRC everybody has the same size engine (2 liters), the rules don't change often, and everybody has a level playing field. :)
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spoilsports :D
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Yep, they don't want Audi and Bentley to be embarrased when a slightly modified road car beats their zillion dollar carbon fiber prototype. :)
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Originally posted by Dowding
HBlair - No-one really cares. But why the big fuss over Moslers? Does Laz own one?
I didn't read that part. I just think the "my supercar is badder than your supercar!" arguements are like a time warp back to ninth grade.
"Lamborghini Countache is badder than Ferrarri Testarossa!"
"Is not!"
"Is too!!"
blah blah blah
I just don't get the arguing over other peoples supercars.
As if you're gonna own one some time soon.
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*cough*
One disappointment, however, is the Vette's skidpad performance. The track was slick that day, but .79 g is not much better than we've run in a Volkswagen Passat.
from here (http://popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1998/1/comparison_test_corvette_vs_viper/print.phtml)
:D
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Yep just ignore the fact that it wasn't a Z06 and they were testing it on an obviously slippery surface. The fact that the Porsche could only do .81g that day should tell you something was wrong with the surface. Popular Mechanics is not exactly known for automotive expertise anyways.
PS 5.2 sec 0-60 is way out of range for even a standard Corvette. There was definitely a traction problem or a driver problem that day. Get any reputable auto magazine and you will see standard Corvettes around 4.7 sec and .95g, and Z06 around 4.0 sec and 1.0 g.
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any car with 400 horse or more is fast,,,i would take the 65 ac cobra my self:) light fast and still holds records and corners good
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well gee dowding.. seems that they still use the buick motor and that it was the only V8 during the eighties all the way up to the late nineties not "decades" like you say.
Popular mechanic... now that was worth a chuckle. guess porche really can only manage .81 on the skidpad.
Face it guys... GM spent millions on the vette suspenssion... it is miles ahead of most everything out there. I have driven em.. they are an eye opener.. made me wish I had enough money to buy a wrecked one and stuff all the good stuff under a tube frame 57 vette.
lazs
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lol face it - you were wrong. TVR uses its own engines on its newest models including the Viper beating Cerbera.
I knew TVR had moved away from the Rover engine - it's been a decade rather than decades.
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You were both wrong. They still use Buicks but they also have their own engines.
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Yes, I was wrong.
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mmm buy a Z06 or a TVR Cerbera!!
No contest TVR pure and simple
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mmm... tvr or lingenfelter vette...
no contest.. lingenfelter pure and simple.
unless you simply had to have wrong hand drive that is.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
mmm... tvr or lingenfelter vette...
no contest.. lingenfelter pure and simple.
unless you simply had to have wrong hand drive that is.
lazs
Yep that's a much better comparison if you consider price and production volume. I'd go for one of the 230 mph Callaway cars myself. :)
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Or better yet, the C12.
http://www.callawaycars.com/C12/c12_page1.htm
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id love a drive in a McLaren F1 one day
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everyone's entitled to their own opinion swoopy. if he wants a vette over a tvr then fair enough!
he cant help being wrong! :D
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yup, McLaren F1 about 10 years old and still beat any production car!
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true
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Except for the Bugatti EB16-4 Veyron. OY! 1001HP, 922Ft/lbs of torque! Same price as a new McLaren F1 as well. :D
Top Speed: 252mph
0-186mph in 14 seconds
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lingenfelter is just a level of vette... Still would save money over the tvr. you can buy a lingenfelter with full waranty at the dealers. Not my fault that tvr has no selection.
face it... the tvr is allmost a hand built car.. you protest when an assemly line vette gets a few options offered by the dealer? you can get your vette from mild to wild... with the tvr... you might get to pick the paint color... you and the other dozen guys who buy one this year.
if I wanted a hand built car that had few options I would choose the vastly superior Mosler over the tvr in any case. I guess if I had the money I could allways buy a tvr and do an engine swap... I'm sure they will be a drug on the market after they go out of bussiness.
lazs
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LMAO laz ure a comedian
lol:)
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yeah.. guess your right... no one has ever taken an out of bussiness or cottage industry (aren't all british cars cottage industry?) brit car and rescured it by installing an American drivetrain... that could never happen.
lazs
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Ouch!
lazs is a mean old coot!
;)
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McLaren F1 is one of the few Euroexotics that is worth the price. Designed by Gordon Murray. Nuff Said.
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Oh yeah! Gordon Murray! He da man. He can design the heck out of car!
(who is he?)
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agreed funked but.... damn.... I still love them old aluminum big block chevy mcclarens from the old days... The sound of a big block at 8 grand....
lazs
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boo! skuzzy! thats impressive :) i got my cheque yesterday btw, thankyou!!
Laz. go here and learn something http://www.tvr-eng.co.uk
And do you think a handbuilt, small production line is not a good thing??
Over the last few years, TVR has achieved what was previously thought to be unachievable for a company of its size. Three new engines and five new cars have emerged from TVR's Blackpool factory but none of this would have been possible without the talent and energy of TVR's engineers and craftsmen.
Every car is hand-built to a customer's own specification; every engine has the engine builder's initials on it.
And TVR is not likely to go out of business because they are getting more and more popular - was formed in 1947 so they have been around for a while.
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Hang on to your check Furball. The first years production is already sold.
BOO!
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You made my point... it is a hand built car... when we compare a lingenfelter vette that is superior but far from "hand built" you cry foul.. When we compare the Mosler which is handbuilt... yu don't even play..
been to the TVR website... I guess it really must be a great car... I mean... they wouldn't hype it on the website would they? No chance of that.
lazs
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money from cheque is already spent anyway! woot! tenerife here we come!
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ok lazs, im tired of this, you win. Every american car ever made is better than everything we have made.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion's, i like TVR's you like vette's lets leave it as that.
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lazs, check BK email.
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Hblair, Gordon Murray is a famous designer of racing cars, including multiple F1 champions. There are some features on that car that are beyond any road car ever built, really technical stuff.
Edit: found a bio: http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-murgor.html
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If he didn't desing a winston cup car he aint nothing!
;)
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Not much to design on a Cup car as they are using 1940's technology. It's all about fine tuning within the very restrictive rules. The talents of an innovator like Murray would be wasted in that arena. :)
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Furball, I'm a 'vette lover!!!
but man, that 440 looks awesome...which one are you buying?
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funny thing is... I don't even like vettes. I want a wrecked one to get all the good stuff from. I do respect the effort tho.
I doubt that more than a few percent of the people who buy TVR's or Vettes can drive em to their limit... or anywhere close. I also know that most will never use half the potential of these cars and are using them to show how much money they have..
lazs
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come to bruntingthorpe(disused airfield thats now a track) and ppl will show ya they do take them to the limit now and then :)