Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: rc51 on May 12, 2003, 10:45:21 PM
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Why Is this the only online game I play that I have to disable
my anti virus software?
I really don't like being online with my pants around my ankles.
HTC Can't you write the code so people don't have to shut down there anti virus software?
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Hi,
I had no probs with several antivirus&firewall sw plus AH...
Check your settings
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never had a problem with norton or mcafee and AH.
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I use AVG control Center....
Never had any probs...also u Sygate firewall...
no problems there either..
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What problem are you having? AV popping up and crashing AH?
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I have Norton running all the time with no problems and no complaints of warping.
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NTAV slows it down for me too, I disabled the auto-scan when I play online, but keep my firewall on.
As long as you don't download anything else while playing, I think you're safe.
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I really don't like being online with my pants around my ankles.
You should read up on what an anti-virus software does... I can say this you are not safe djust because you have an anti-virus software installed.
If you need pointers or info about comp security djust PM me. I have some extensive knownledge about this :)
The ultimate fun is to have an sales representant of an Anti-virus software on an buisiness meeting, and you shoot big holes in their product.
The common computer user is fooled by the AV industry...
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Theres absolutely no need to keep anti-virus program active when playing.
I find spyware/adware much more potential threat than the viruses - those can come with programs and games as planned part of the package!
I hate those software publishers who makes deals with these spyware/adware companies.
...and thats something what for you need an anti-spyware/adware program, since virus program doesn't help and those will be very likely existing on computers of the people whos never scanned for spyware/adware.
The last viruses I've met, have been just dropping into the email, but those are easily defeated by deleting without accessing those.
Last non email virus which I met, was 8 years ago, which I caught on a routine scan of files I had downloaded.
Last spyware/adware spottings.. constantly!
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Maniac,
Ever hear of Lovegate? It looks for shares with weak passwords and logs into them and infects the machine. This can happen while you are playing Aces High.
If you have a good antivirus program running, it can catch the infection as it is being written to the disk and prevent it.
Let's try another scenario... you have outlook running minimized while you're in the game, lots of players do. While you are playing, it checks for new mail every 5-15 miles. Someone who is infected who has you in their address book sends you an infection. Your machine downloads the message, and the virus exploits one of the many security holes in Outlook to send itself to all your friends then delete files on your system.
Again, if you had a good antivirus program, the infection would be prevented.
Maniac, your technical understanding of what antivirus software does is a little out of date. I hope you aren't spreading that stuff around, you might be responsible for a lot of vulnerable computers.
I'm in software development at Symantec, so if you have any questions, please feel free to email me at bhallert@symantec.com so I can clear up any other misconceptions you might have.
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There is stuff that will get by antivirus programs alone. I see it all the time in the shop. You need somethign like Pestpatrol as well as a hardware or software firewall product - and even then you only 98% secure. If you ignore warnings, lower security for certain web sites, fall behind in your windows updates, open ports etc., etc., you gonna leave holes.
All you can do is do what is reasonable for your online machine/network - and keep important stuff air-gapped, which is the only 100% online security.
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I'm talking about zone alarm.
Maybe i should have said firewall sry for the miss understanding.
It locks up my machine hard.
Have to do a hard reboot.
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I think there's a way to use Zone Alarm, you just need to memorize a key sequence to 'Permit' for the alert that has popped up behind Aces High. The problem is that Zone Alarm doesn't know how to act when there is a DirectX window up, so the alert that it is showing is behind everything and makes your computer look locked up. Most firewalls do this, it's a limitation of DirectX and very hard to get around.
Norton Internet Security works with Aces High, if you ever decide to switch.
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LOL!
Chairboy!!
I can take any known virus/backdoor and hide it from you symantec guys in less then 10 mins...
About your Outlook comment, that is completly true!! you should turn off all apps while gaming including the mail client...
About lovegate, thx for the tip, im googling for it now!
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Ah its an worm... i never mess with worms...
If it is to infect you by network shares, well someone on your internal network has to be infected to start with, and most people know by now not to share folders or drives with the WHOLE INTERNET!!! Djust get rid of Netbios and your set...
Oh, heres another statement from me:
The antivirus companys will never be able to stop trojans.
To the rest of you, if you are thinking about investing in an AV-software, go for Kapersky Labs, they are the leaders in this industry... All the AV companys are the same, its djust the speed their AV database gets updated that differs (almost anyway).
Let's try another scenario... you have outlook running minimized while you're in the game, lots of players do. While you are playing, it checks for new mail every 5-15 miles. Someone who is infected who has you in their address book sends you an infection. Your machine downloads the message, and the virus exploits one of the many security holes in Outlook to send itself to all your friends then delete files on your system.
And another scenario is that i send you an modifed version of the virus (10 mins of hex editing) and it still gets through your Symantec AV...
Worms and malicius virues THAT SPREAD THEMSELFS are always gonna be cought up by the AV industry, but boy aint that an small part of it all in the big picture!
Hell theres 13 year olds beating you guys...
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Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance. Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly. In addition, good AV software will also examine script engine behavior and prevent an email worm from propagating using Outlook's script engine.
I'm not a Symantec shill here, any of my other posts that mention firewalls or AV should show this, but I would like to point out that Norton Antivirus has the features I mentioned and has consistently outperformed all of the competition.
Your AV knowledge seems to be about 5 years out of date, but ignorance is not fatal. I suggest reading up on the current state of technology and re-acquainting yourself with modern computing threats. If you have specific questions, please feel free to email me.
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Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance. Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly.
Wich version are you speaking of? please post it, i know about heuristics, and i know about the false triggers it causes to.. The CPU´s need to an teeny bit faster then todays CPU´s to be able to utilize this...
Please post the AV software and version and ill pick it up tomorrow and do some testing.
Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance.
My ignorance? because i didnt mention heuristics? please feel free to prove me wrong on anything i posted... I KNOW i can prove you wrong... For the everyday user to be running with heuristics scan enabled they need an fast comp, and thats final, it actually pics every file apart and does scans..
Heuristics certainly is the way to go for AV companies, but the Heuristic scans today can be beaten, even if it set on full Heuristic scan, djust hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc...
P.S i wont mess with worms tough....
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Howdy Maniac,
Your enthusiasm is refreshing, but you're still a bit off. Norton Antivirus has heuristics enabled by default, that's part of why it is the best scoring anti-virus program at detecting virii, both known and unknown. It's not 100% perfect at catching every new virus, not by a longshot, but it's better then the competition.
I've noticed that your steps on how to defeat anti-virus software have gotten more complex as you reply. Originally you suggested that you'd just need 10 minutes with a hex editor, then you suggested "hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc... "
All of this seems to forget that the virus has to actually run, and at the point it decrypts itself and starts executing, NAV (and other competent AV programs) should catch it.
The fact of the matter is this: A good, modern heuristics engine like the Bloodhound engine in NAV does not need some super karate monkey death car CPU to run effectively. I have a P90 that I was using to run as my NAT server and more until recently that had a modern copy of NAV running with no performance problems.
You also mentioned that there is no difference between the AV companies other then how fast they update their websites and release definitions, and that's just not true either. Our (as in the industry) products live and die on the technology that we innovate to stay ahead of the competition, and that's good. If you dismiss the differences between AV products as cosmetic, then it really betrays a lack of understanding of the cut-throat innovation that goes into each product release.
Your comments keep suggesting that you're a bit behind the curve, and that's something you can correct. Please don't take this as an attack, I'm identifying something you should be aware of. I would suggest that you reconsider advertising yourself as a self professed computer security expert until you study up.
The state of computer security did not sit still over the last 5 years, there have been some significant changes. Once you brush up on that stuff, I'm sure you'll be a great resource for people who need help, but your advice to forget about antivirus programs is really dangerous.
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Originally posted by rc51
Why Is this the only online game I play that I have to disable
my anti virus software?
I really don't like being online with my pants around my ankles.
HTC Can't you write the code so people don't have to shut down there anti virus software?
Just give Aces High permission to access the Internet in you FireWall Software (assuming you are using a firewall). Anti-virus software has never caused me a single problem... I use Norton Internet Security and Virus Protection.
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RC51,
I use Zone Alarm, and leave it running when I play AH. It can be a pain to get it to work. Here is what I do:
Start up AH, click "On Line" , then at the password window press "OK" (try not to move your mouse)
Press "r" "y"
If your lucky, it will continue. If it locks up, you need to do a hard shutdown... I kill the power... then reboot and try it again. It sometimes takes several tries for it to work. Once you get it to work, you will not have to do this again until the next version comes out. You will need to do it all over again.
If I can't get this to work, I delete AH in ZA, and manually put it in. Make sure you allow AH to access the internet without a prompt.
What happens is the ZA pop-up box comes up, and you can't see it. When you press "r", this sellects the "Remember" box. When you press "y" it allows AH to access the internet.
Gunner
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Skuzzy seems absolutely insistent that there is no need to have any firewall or webtrap running when playing AH. I'm not so sure, but the implication is that the sever itself is absolutely secure.
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Whether the game server is secure or not makes no difference, the customer machine is whats vulnerable. A personal firewall is not for protecting you against HTC, it's for protecting you against all the people that run portscanners and various trojan horse controllers and more looking for machines that are vulnerable.
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OK Chairboy, lets take it from the start of this thread, an little bit of recap...
I said this :
You should read up on what an anti-virus software does... I can say this you are not safe djust because you have an anti-virus software installed.
Where is this not true? please tell me...
I said this :
The ultimate fun is to have an sales representant of an Anti-virus software on an buisiness meeting, and you shoot big holes in their product.
I know this is were you got ticked off, for sure... Did you see where i said sales-representant, do you know what they say when they trying to sell your products? i guess not.
I said this :
The COMMON computer user is fooled by the AV industry
As you can read, i said COMMON computer user, the majority of people who have an AV software installed think their safe to do whatever they want without being infected.
But you have to install servicepacks, update the AV engine, update the Virus patterns, and how many common users keeps up with this do you think?.
Add to it that they also get an "firewall" then they feel really safe lol! i wont get into ports and firewall bypassing in this thread (memory injection etc)....
YOU SAID :
Sorry Maniac, but you have again displayed your ignorance. Modern AV software uses heuristics that will catch a virus that has been modified slightly.
I say i that modern AV software that uses heuristics are still fooled... 10 mins of hex editing 2 mins of packing and scrambling the the file, and the virus/backdoor is still fully funktional (sp?).
YOU SAID :
I've noticed that your steps on how to defeat anti-virus software have gotten more complex as you reply. Originally you suggested that you'd just need 10 minutes with a hex editor, then you suggested "hex edit, then pack , then scramble , then add some more bytes , then do the whole process all over again an couple of times, change the icon again etc etc... "
Yes thats true, i didnt mention packing and scrambling and adding bytes at first, and guess what? you didnt mention heuristics at first either. You have to take different steps to beat different AV software, thats completly true indeed...
Again the Common computer wouldnt want huristics enabled on their workstation/gaming rig, why? try to run Aces High with FULL heuristic scan on. I think you will get my point... Take an moment and read Saws post in the beginning, i dont even think he is using heuristic scan and guess what it still boggs down his computer while playing games.
As you running it on your P90 thats handles your NAT, big fing deal...
YOU SAID :
The state of computer security did not sit still over the last 5 years, there have been some significant changes. Once you brush up on that stuff, I'm sure you'll be a great resource for people who need help, but your advice to forget about antivirus programs is really dangerous.
And here you are putting words in my mouth... Where exactly did i say "forget about antivirus software" ? ? ? ? Thats right i never did.... Since im still 5 years behind please enlighten me further LOL!!!
:rolleyes:
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Maniac,
I realize you feel strongly about your skills, and if you find yourself feeling defensive, I'll back off. Additionally, if you can't conduct yourself with a modicum of respect (as I have endeavored to do on my part) in our conversation, then I see no further point to discussing this with you.
I'm not trying to "dis" you, I thought you had made an honest mistake. If you're not interested in learning about the reality of modern computer security, that's your decision and there's nothing I can do to change it.
I wish you well in your future projects, and I hope that you take the opportunity to brush up on your security basics before offering potentially dangerous advice to novice computer users.
Regards,
Chairboy
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I wish you well in your future projects, and I hope that you take the opportunity to brush up on your security basics before offering potentially dangerous advice to novice computer users.
Again, what is it that i have said in this thread that is wrong? please DO point it out for me.
I never said : DONT USE AV
I said : Djust because you use AV you are not safe (same thing with firewall)
Its an big differance bro.
and if you find yourself feeling defensive, I'll back off.
Back off? all you have done in this thread is insulting my security knowledge, AV software knowlegde actually, you have not provided any substance to your claims... Im still waiting for this...
Have an nice day.
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Originally posted by GunnerCAF
RC51,
I use Zone Alarm, and leave it running when I play AH. It can be a pain to get it to work. Here is what I do:
Start up AH, click "On Line" , then at the password window press "OK" (try not to move your mouse)
Press "r" "y"
If your lucky, it will continue. If it locks up, you need to do a hard shutdown... I kill the power... then reboot and try it again. It sometimes takes several tries for it to work. Once you get it to work, you will not have to do this again until the next version comes out. You will need to do it all over again.
If I can't get this to work, I delete AH in ZA, and manually put it in. Make sure you allow AH to access the internet without a prompt.
What happens is the ZA pop-up box comes up, and you can't see it. When you press "r", this sellects the "Remember" box. When you press "y" it allows AH to access the internet.
Gunner
Of course you can actually "buy" the "Pro" version of ZA for a year and you can then add AH.exe manually to its pass through list to allow it to access the Internet while still blocking ports for others. No need then to use the above rigmarolle. :) That is only for the freebie ZA.
There is also an option in ZA Pro to label AH as changing frequently (whick takes care of updates to the exe file)
Personally I use Norton Internet Security plus AntiVirus. I don't have AV running while playing AH but do have Norton Security active which does stop Trojan attempts (quite common). Everything else is closed down while playing, and my mail programs are on a networked machine seperate from my main gateway games machine, and it doesn't use Outlook or Outlook express for mail programs-there are others! :)
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I would suggest using Lotus Notes instead of outlook :)
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Your right Spiffy:) ZA Pro is well worth the money. Nortons is also a good firewall.
I prefer to keep them all running when I play, as long as my PC isn't under powered and it can handle the load. It just makes things easier.
Gunner
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Hheheh..Chairboy and manic need to 'hack each others computers' duel.
I run my puter fully naked and unprotected at all times. Nobody
messes with me.. No cahllange I spose. But i dont open
emails unless a apersonal note is attached.
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Is to have a firewall completly independant of the system you are gaming on.
I have gotten better throughput in any configuration be it modem or cable using a Dedicated Linux Firewall.
More info can be found @ http://leaf.sourceforge.net
2Hawks
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Originally posted by rc51
I'm talking about zone alarm.
Maybe i should have said firewall sry for the miss understanding.
It locks up my machine hard.
Have to do a hard reboot.
To get AH to work properly with Zone Alarm you have to give it permission for AH to access the Internet.
To do this, just bring up Zone Alarm and click on the Programs tab. If you scroll down the program list, you should see a list of all the programs that have either asked or been granted access to the Internet. Find AH and click on it and check 'Allow Access'. Then right click on the AH listing and check 'Changes Frequently', this way you won't have to worry about giving it permission to access the Internet after you've patched AH.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Maniac
I would suggest using Lotus Notes instead of outlook :)
Lotus sucks, the interface blows
I'm going to assume that you aren't from an English speaking country because your English is horrible, let alone your spelling.
What I find really funny is your generalizations; the comment regarding using a hex editor is hilarious. This would only be possible if it were a compiled executable. Although this is changing rapidly, you can now embed viruses in JPG's and the like. While incredibly hard, it's still possible to do...
The other thing is the majority of "viruses" out there today are worms, this shows how out of date you really are...
Actually you have one thing right, Antivirus won't stop every Trojan out there, but then having a decent firewall, which can alert you to questionable out going traffic and SPI, also helps...
Cheers,
P.S. use a spell checker; my head hurts trying to figure some of your sentences out.
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Making your own systems and gaming for a few years does not make a person savvy enough to speak on the level I recognize Maniac as coming from.
From what I have read in Maniacs posts I recognize the knowledge behind what maniac says. I have 8 yrs of combined hands on retail repair and network admin behind me, and have been "Hex Editing" files since I was 15, I am now 31. Can we say experience? Anyone remember the days of DOS and modifying COMMAND.COM to rename all the commands and error messages on a hapless victim?
As maniac Said, AV Programs are only a partial solution, and security on any windows system, especially XP is an oxymoron the likes of Military Intelligence, and Microsoft Works. AV Salesmen or women are the same whether they are selling software or underwear. They are going to hype the product, people buy emotionaly not logically. The People in IT who have to deal with 100's of frustrated employee's screaming that their machines are not working right have to be the ones who can see through that hype (Better known as BS). Those who make and perpetuate that hype are the type that would be offended by reality.
Software firewalls on the victims PC running any brand of windows products only wastes what resources windows does not. - The best solution from a security standpoint is to have a hardware solution for a firewall. Don't get me started on how Unix has been on the scene in this capacity.
Furthermore, if you're so frustrated by the defeat of your agurments that you have to attack the delivery of said argument by railing about spelling and grammer you might as well throw the chess board across the room too.
--- Smile ---
2Hawks.
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What I find really funny is your generalizations.
What generalizations? can you be more specific? please do point them out for me cause i cant see them.
the comment regarding using a hex editor is hilarious. This would only be possible if it were a compiled executable.
Yes im talking trojans when im referring to hex editing and trojans are compiled executables.
The other thing is the majority of "viruses" out there today are worms, this shows how out of date you really are...
Have you read the whole thread? ive said plenty of times i do not mess with worms, as the way i see an worm is djust an mean of spreading your malicous file thru exploits. (means of delivery)
And lastly, im not from an English speaking country so im really sorry if your head hurts again.
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Follow up on hex editing.
If you take your detected trojan of choice, and then split the file into many many little files.
And then let your AV software do an scan on the splitted files the AV will report wich splitted file wich contains the AV signature.
Now you got an nice and nimble little file to play with using the hex editor...
Do you catch my drift?