Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Soviet on November 23, 2001, 11:30:00 PM
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I'm just about sick of it, twice this month i've had some idiot come screaming in in front of me just when i open fire he obiviously doesn't give a sh*t whether i get kill shooterd or not. Talk about gamey
Today i was in a Fw-190A8 around midnight EST. I'm cruising along happily after my two kills on P51s, when i spot an F6F we go for the HO but we both evade, he goes after someone in a P38 (gonna spare mentioning this guys name) and i come in to help him, i get saddled on his six and closed a little distance around 300 i begin to open horror and to my horror some IDIOT in a P38 comes screaming in taking my kill and giving the enemy a proxy kill so now i don't even get the landing bonus. This is retarded IMO please get rid of killshooter i'm about sick of it after only 2 times. And now i'm not a gangbanger so don't even try using that excuse.
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Can't Soviet - it would get worse. Some guys want kills so badly that they would shoot through you (and maybe kill you) to get the guy that you were about to take out.
I die from it too - we all do - but the alternative is chaos :eek:
<S>
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Would you like him to come in behind you, shoot at the con in front of you, and also shoot you down while he was at it?
Like it or not, killshooter must always exist in some version. Possibly it could be altered so as to just make sure any hits you score on a countryman would do no damage to anyone. This would eliminate the problem of having some dumb dweeb drop in between you and a con and you taking the damage from accidentally shooting him. I think that would work, and I dont see any down side, but maybe some else can think of one.
Dago
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If, you can figure out a way to make sure that everyone playing the game is intelligent, mature, toughtful, and civil, then and only then can you take away kill shooter.
In short: No way, dude!
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As I said Keep friendly fire OFF
Make it soo the bullets get stuck in your plane and don't continue through.
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Actually when i think about it that does make sense people would fire through each other to get the kill and that would be very gamey
~Soviet
[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: Soviet ]
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That soviet would cause people shooting from behind you, THROUGH you to steal your kill.
The % of people flying in front of you and killshooting you compared to the % of people that would shoot THROUGH you to steal your kill is very low.
Would be nice however, to put a "personal" space for the killshooter?
Say, if a green plane is d500 or less from a red plane, then killshooter will not kill him if he hits a friendly plane. If the plane is beyond d500 from the red plane and shoots a green plane that's inside the d500 "personal space" bubble, then killshooter damages the guy that fires outside the d500 bubble.
If you inside d500 and you cant shoot the guy down before someone else jumps in front of you (or shoots the con THROUGH you), then I'd say you had your fair chance.
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I've noticed alot more folks trying to fire thru me to steal kills and flying in my path of fire in the past couple of weeks than I can ever remember. Another annoying thing I've notice alot of lately are idiots chasing a 1-winged death-spiraling plane into the ground trying to get a few pings in to steal a kill. Evidently this kind of stuff was acceptable in AW. Watched in amazement today as I was d300 off of a 205 lining up a shot and noticed all these tracers screaming past me. Looked back in time to see 3 friendlies bite the dust from lighting me up.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel:
... Evidently this kind of stuff was acceptable in AW...
Actually, for those new from AW, it is probably lack of familiarity with the damage model. In AW, a plane flew at 100% until it exploded and disappeared. The engine would smoke, but it still flew at 100%. A plane spiralling away from a friendly was simply evading and was quite capable of re-joining the fight. It'll take a while to get used to for them. OTOH, I see a few AH "vets" (at least they claim to be) who seem to use this technique to get most of their kills. Not the majority by any means, but the few who do are very noticable. Guess what I'm saying is cut the AW guys some slack, explain how damage works in here, and the light will go on for most of them.
HaMmeR
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I died to killshooter today.
Was straffing a ammo bunker at a high angle, friendly came in low under me at same target.
I died, so what?
My fault?
Probably.
Do I even care?
Not really.
I manage to have fun whether I screw up 10% or 90% of the time.
eskimo
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Originally posted by xHaMmeRx:
Actually, for those new from AW, it is probably lack of familiarity with the damage model. In AW, a plane flew at 100% until it exploded and disappeared.
That is very true - I have been here a bit longer than most of the latest influx, but must confess I tend to keep shooting until a plane hits the ground or the pilot deploys his/her chute... old habits die hard I guess. (At least I don't shoot the chute here - I often did in AW <g> ). I have been trying to hold back more recently if I can see that the enemy plane is definitely on the way down.... :)
I certainly don't do it "to steal the kill" - though it would be nice if the kill went to the person that did the most damage (as was the case in AW) rather than the one that finished it off... kill-stealing couldn't happen then... :p
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I get frustrated at some of the kill stealing that happens.
I'll get that lucky snapshot and rip a wing off, and instead of following him I immediately look for the next bandit. The ded guy spirals down as my friends swoop in for the easy kill. Very aggrevating when you don't fly a plane that has the ammo to follow a kill to the ground.
Oh well, it's just a game. A kill is a kill.
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The only time Ive ever had a problem with killshooter is when a friendly tracking the same con as you pulls UP from UNDERNEATH you, into your guns......and even that has happened all of twice in two years.
In pretty much every other case ( the friendly is somewhere other than almost directly under you ) you definately should know he's there, especially with the external sounds of 1.08.
Try turning the external sounds up, and everything else down a bit, then turn system volume up, any plane, be it friendly or not, that comes within the range of your guns, can be HEARD.
Only thing I can think of, is get closer before you fire, makes the space the killshooter abusing dweebs out to ruin your day have to get into to have any fun, that much smaller :-)
No-one has 'dibs' on any particular con, to the guy who's airframe your ammo strikes, killshootering you, you are just some dweeb that started spraying and praying from too far back.
Takes two to Tango, and two to do allmost everything in this game, toejam doesnt just happen, you either cause it,or let it, by doing nothing to prevent it.
Same with Head Ons, vultching/being vultched, being outmanouvered by a Spit/Yak/N1k/Hurri etc :)
Just my 2c
<S> Blue
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The kill IS awarded to the one who did the most damage. Not the one who shot the bogy last. However quite often the last person to shoot the bogy can do so easily as the bogy is in no shape to evade the fire. And hence as the bogy was (usually already plumeeting to the ground) missing a wing or two if the last person to shoot him gets bullets on the pilot then it's a pilot kill which is more damaging than aircraft structural damage.
Westy
[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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Originally posted by Raubvogel:
...noticed all these tracers screaming past me. Looked back in time to see 3 friendlies bite the dust from lighting me up.
Had to be a satisfying moment, eh? ;)
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Yes Westy. Also, if I shoot a plane and rip its wing off, its MY kill. Yet, as the plane spirals down, here comes a cannon armed plane and shoots the fek out of it, making it shed its other wing and tail, which is enough to make HIM do MORE damage to the plane.
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I hate it when that happens. So when I know someone intentionally kill stealed from me (like watching an Nik2 strafe the hell out of a sprialing P-51 with 1 wing and flames i just check six the bastage until he get's really annoyed for payback :D a cheap tactic but get's your anger out on the llama
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Only had it done to me 1 or 2 times. All
I think is, If thats the only way they
can get kills, and they are so desperate
to get em' then let em'. I'ts not the
way to get respect from other players
however, and is real poor sportsmanship.
Personally I hang back until the first
shooter either is out of ammo or get's in
trouble. Also if the con is about to escape
can be considered a good time to move in.
But more often I'm forced to break of a
attack because tracers suddenly streaks
by my cockpit, I break off because the
extra time it takes to confirm it's a
"friendly" is to long if it's not.
Think about it the next time you fire past
a friendly.
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I have occasionally KSed before, but I NEVER do so intentionally.
There have been times a plane was destroyed but I had no idea it was; for example I remember once shooting a P-51 that was diving away from a fueball only to discover it was diving because it had no elevators.
How was I suppoed to know? Things like elevators and such don't show up graphically until I'm VERY close (I run in 800 x 600).
I think a good way to avoid KSes would be to make an ICON disappear once some critical system (like both elevators or tail or a wing) was destroyed. OTOH that would also remove the "pucker factor" from the game (is he running or is it a death-dive?). So I suppose its a tradeoff.
Killshooter sucks, but it also occasionally make the game more realistic. For example:
The other day I watched a P-38 dive into a mass of friendly planes. He hadsome E but I had more and I got on his 6--but he ignored me. instead he got on the tail of a friendly and proceeded to blow him away--and I couldn't shoot to save the friendly for fear of hitting HIM! Once the friendly died the P-38 split-s'd and ran back towards his buddies; I could have caught him and probably killed him but I'd have been low and slow in the middle of a bunch of enemies. Man that P-38 guy could fly! SALUTE to whoever it was.
J_A_B
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Keep it, not that big of a deal.
A little SA, get closer and watch where you shoot.
All in all not to realistic, but IMO makes the game more fun.
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You mean you want to be able to blow some one of your own side out of the sky with out retribution?
Get real.
That's not going to happen, and rightly. Look where you point your guns, it's you pulling the trigger.
On the other hand, that's not to say the penaly it's self can't be tweaked. In AW we had "PNG" (persona non grata); kill a friendly and you had no ammo for a day, and were thus forced into eother flying for another side, or flying goonoes. Personaly, compared to that, I prefer kill shoter.
What have other sims had? Propose a workable alternative.
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If killshooter were to be turned off it would be HELL. Anybody here played other games where your own teammate could "accidently" shoot you? Well I have and people like to take advantage of that big time. We refer to them as "Team killers". GUARANTEED you would have several individuals everywhere whose sole purpose would be to get their rocks off shootin their own countrymen down. Just imagine trying to defend a base--bogies everywhere--and there sits joeshmoe at the end of your runway in an M16 puttin 300 rounds into you as you spawn....you get the picture. This is why killshooter exists. ;)
(http://www.applink.net/thunder/sig/DHBG.jpg)
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Have had the same thing happen to me many, many times TAC. Less now that the C-hog isn't flown as much.
I now do one of three things.
One: The sure fire way is to make sure the bogy "pops!" Sure, that uses more ammo but no tidbits left over for the hyenas ;)
Two: steal a kill in return on someone who just did that to me. I do that to the most blatant kill stealers. It pisses them off and even more so when I form up on thier wing after ready to do it again to them.
Or three: shrug it off at times as I know when I got the kill and sometimes that's all I need to be satisfied. On those ocasions the scab chasing my left overs doesn't bother me as much. It's like groveling a bit on thier part :)
Westy
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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By far the worst is when you chase a con for 20 miles working him lower and lower only to have some nerd zoom past you firing like a loon and take the kill in its now vulnerable position.usually they ignore you and often fly through your stream of bullets.
You say lay off the AW'ers but it was 20 times LESS common before the closure of AW if you ask me.I realise we have got some great AW players in AH now but it seems we have got a lot of the f**king ignorent idiots too :)
My answer? i take note in my memory of who behaves so bad and i never help them if they are in trouble.You may scoff at this sort of thing but it damn well works at least in terms of my sanity :D.
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Originally posted by hazed-:
By far the worst is when you chase a con for 20 miles working him lower and lower only to have some nerd zoom past you firing like a loon and take the kill in its now vulnerable position.usually they ignore you and often fly through your stream of bullets.
Funny how they are flying n1k's most of the time too. :D
Seriously though, kill stealing does smeg me off as I suffer from this quite a lot. I fly the pony mostly so with mg's it's very difficult to keep a kill if some dweeb starts throwing cannon rounds at the con as he spirals in. Very frustrating. I don't mind so much if I don't get the kill (score is an amusing reference to me, not the be-all and end-all), I just don't like the jerk who is so concerned about having kills on the board taking mine... :cool:
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one thing we could do to help avoid this sort of thing, and by the way something i try to do if im damaged beyond the ability to fly is BAIL. if an enemy plane blows my wing off i dont wait 10 minutes while i float to earth letting all those dweebs take shots at my wreckage.I bail , the guy gets his kill and the nerds can blow me ;)
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Originally posted by hazed-:
By far the worst is when you chase a con for 20 miles working him lower and lower only to have some nerd zoom past you firing like a loon and take the kill in its now vulnerable position.
Maybe he figures you need help catching it, since you've not yet managed to do so.
Just sayin'.
Runny
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No way Hazed. I do everything I can to keep my wounded bird up in the air as long as possible. It drags the morons down giving my squadmates and countrymates the altitude advantage. That and usually they get so fixated, that 2 or 3 of them get picked off while trying to fill my flaming hunk of metal with lead. :D