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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on May 15, 2003, 01:02:55 PM

Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: brady on May 15, 2003, 01:02:55 PM
???





 (http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/40557/0.jpg)
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: Shiva on May 15, 2003, 01:22:56 PM
MG34 team with a Schwimmwagen in the background. Hard to tell from the B&W image, but it looks like SS-pattern camo smocks.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: DiabloTX on May 15, 2003, 04:00:04 PM
...and I was JUST about to say that!!  OK, then I will say...ground targets for a P-47D-30!!!
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: bigUC on May 15, 2003, 05:24:16 PM
Two guys who will never reenact, MG42 and schwimmwagen?
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: bigsky on May 15, 2003, 06:53:23 PM
duck hunters on the stepp
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: Shiva on May 15, 2003, 11:32:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bigUC
Two guys who will never reenact, MG42 and schwimmwagen?


On a zoomed look at the weapon, you're right; it does have the barrel shroud of an MG42. Hard to tell at the angle it's being held, though.

MG34:
(http://www.europa1939.com/infanteria/fusil/mg34.jpg)

MG42:
(http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~longbow/images/mg42rightside-s.jpg)
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: frank3 on May 16, 2003, 08:52:34 AM
is that Al Bundy??? :D
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: davidpt40 on May 16, 2003, 10:08:22 AM
German squads were far superior to U.S, British and Russian squads.  

While U.S. squads had to rely on the BAR (with a mere 20 round magazine) for suppression fire, each German squad usually had either an MG34 or MG42.  The Russians often incorporated MGs into their squads, but they were so heavy and cumbersome that mobility was severely hampered.

Interesting note, the M60, while not an exact copy of the MG42 (measurement for measurement), is wholey based on it.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: brady on May 16, 2003, 11:39:15 AM
Schwimmwagen, MG 42, it is:)


   Generaly Speaking US squads were better outfited over all, Some German units did have signastudmuffinant firepower advantages this is true but not all, and MG34/42's were not as common as BAR's were in US squads, again this would depend on the unit.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: Batz on May 16, 2003, 11:44:59 AM
German squads were set up around the mg34 or 42. The rest of the squad spread out and basically covered the mg position.

Americans were different they had different "weapons" squads.

The Bar even with just 20 rnds isnt nothing to sneeze at.
Title: Warning large image!!!
Post by: Batz on May 16, 2003, 11:47:07 AM
I told you large but awesome detail






(http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/kursk/images/battle_kursk_0019.jpg)
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: brady on May 16, 2003, 11:48:25 AM
I gues to be claer you would or could say this: The BAR was an inhearent weapon in US riffle squads, the MG 34/42 was not an inhearnet weapon in all German rifle squads.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: bigsky on May 16, 2003, 07:44:08 PM
if memory serves me correctly the m60 was based on three ww2 mgs. the ammo feed system was a copy of the mg42, the barrel was taken from the bren gun and i think the bolt and operating rod was from a czech mg. interestly the germans still used the mg42 in the 80s when i was in nato. it was called the mg3 it had very minor changes: 8mm to 7.62 nato, the barrel shroud was slightly different, but most important the rate of fire was reduced from a barrel burning 1200 rounds per min. to i think 800-850 rpm. what set this gun apart from the other mgs of this time was apart from the barrel and bolt it was made from stamped metal which made it very cheap to produce. the m2hbar(ma duece) .50, m1919 .30, bar, thompson sub were all made from a forged chunk of steel and then milled out to form the major parts. that made them rather expensive to make. with exception of the thompson those were all john browning designed weapons and thats just the way he built them, to last and work well. from what i have seen the m60 is being more or less phased out in favor of the fn 240c and the saw(squad automatic weapon). i think fabrique nationale was a john browning started company too. his belgium browning shotguns still are much sought after.
bigsky
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: GScholz on May 18, 2003, 04:11:07 PM
The MG3 is very much still in use ... and in production in several countries.

(http://www.mil.no/multimedia/archive/00000/har_6div_ES_sikre_464a.jpg)
Mg-3 in service with the Norwegian Army.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: lord dolf vader on May 19, 2003, 04:01:50 PM
i have seen several us soldiers make reference to the german squad mg loosing any real accuracy after just a few rounds. was a part of their tactics. wait for it to heat up then attack, the bar and 50 cal have a much lower tendency to loose accuracy ( admitedly bar had lower rof and feed system)


anyone else familiar with this?
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: davidpt40 on May 19, 2003, 05:07:26 PM
MG42 had a very quick barrel change system, so I am not sure how effective that would be.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: Bodhi on May 19, 2003, 10:01:35 PM
I will carry an M240 anyday over an M-60, MG42, or MG34.  They have proven their worth to us time and again, and the best thing is, I can toss my 240 into the sand and pick up, and guess what, IT STILL FIRES!!!!

FN and SF forever!



HoooAAAAAHHHHHH
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: Pongo on May 20, 2003, 09:08:35 PM
M240 is the SAW?
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: GScholz on May 20, 2003, 09:47:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
M240 is the SAW?


No that's the M249. The M240 is the FN MAG-MG. Possibly the best GPMG in the world.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: bigUC on May 21, 2003, 10:13:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lord dolf vader
i have seen several us soldiers make reference to the german squad mg loosing any real accuracy after just a few rounds. was a part of their tactics. wait for it to heat up then attack, the bar and 50 cal have a much lower tendency to loose accuracy ( admitedly bar had lower rof and feed system)


anyone else familiar with this?


As a squad leader one probably has to come up with stuff like that to motivate grunts charging a machinegun ;)
Title: MG42 weakness
Post by: rshubert on May 21, 2003, 11:48:09 AM
We shoot a lot of MGs around here for funsies, and the BAR is actually superior as a squad weapon to the MG42 for several reasons:

BAR can be fired from the shoulder, while moving.

BAR mags were easily distributed about the squad to help keep the MG fed.  MG42 used boxed and belted ammo, harder to carry around.
MG 42 has an incredibly high cyclic rate, which wastes ammo, and means that engagement time is limited.

The Germans had a SAW called the FG42 that was roughly equivalent to the M249, that fed from mags and was very portable.  It was only used by airborne forces, though.
Title: Name This...(513)
Post by: bigsky on May 22, 2003, 12:40:59 AM
the bar( browning automatic rifle) was developed in time for ww1. but the U.S. army didnt want it deployed in the field for fear the germans would capture one. the bar was "walking firepower" which meant it was not a crew served MG one man could put it to good use without another to carry ammo and tripod/t&e. and crew served weapons were limited under certain peace treatys. in a world of maxim MGs and bolt action rifles the bar was in a class by itself. it was portable but from the guys i talked to that had to hump them it was heavy. in the 1920s you could buy one mail order, thats the gun that did in bonney and clide in, in a ambush. by todays standards its dated but i wouldnt like to be on the bad end of one. but my apologys to brady for hijacking his post. actuly the picture looks like me, if you loose the helmets, uniforms and the MG. thats kinda what mule deer hunting looks like in montana. substitute the mg42 for a winchester mod. 70 .300 win mag and me yelling at my son to hurry up and get me the box of bullets i left in the truck due to exitement. but i like to rest the rifle across the hood for a nice steady rest. lol
bigsky;)