Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: RedDg on May 16, 2003, 12:11:09 AM
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First off, I believe everyone has at least one great talent, or gift that goes unused. I also believe that deep down everyone has a ‘caged tiger’ inside them that is waiting for the right moment to come out. All my life, I have doodled and drawn all over everything I could get my hands on. This is especially true when I am very bored (all through school).
I’ve never studied art, nor care particularly about art history. One thing I have been amazed with is aircraft, especially fighters. After 11 years in the Air Force (got out right before 9/11) and finishing college, I’m finding myself driven to pursue my real dream. All of us have something fun we know we could do all day if we could just get paid for it (sims anyone?). The thing is, I need information and I’m hoping I might find some here.
I want to know how successful aviation artists fair in the real world. I’m not saying that I want to be able to quit my day job in 30 days, but I don’t know where to go to find out if an artist with talent can make it in their own business. What does it really take? How does one get prints made? Marketing? How does one show their work? Maybe at a booth at an air show or something.
Let me also say that I’m not afraid of work. I have lots of drive and passion for what I’m talking about here, but I have no business knowledge for the art market yet. I have good business sense in other areas and catch on very quickly. Is there someone who would share what they know. I would be very grateful. See you all in the skies.
By the way, all these are hanging in my son’s bedroom. to my little wingman. All are drawn with a pencil, charcoal, and pastel chalk.
"Nevada Gunfighters"
(http://www.x-plane.org/users/reddog56th/rdf18web.jpg)
"Dark Thunder"
(http://www.x-plane.org/users/reddog56th/darkthunder.jpg)
(http://www.x-plane.org/users/reddog56th/rdf16web.jpg)
(http://www.x-plane.org/users/reddog56th/rdf15web.jpg)
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You've got a nice style there. Very good work!
I would think a search on the Internet might yield some helpful results. I think the Air Force has an Art Program, too. You might be able to find out more about that through some contacts.
Good Luck with your dream!
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very nice but you forgot the props :)
seriously - get a website
cheap way to start and you can write it off your taxes :)
put one or two up for bid in ebay, put links in newsgroups & other avaition related online forums. anything to get the word out ...
print up some business cards and hand them out at airshows, etc..
you have a talent - exploit it
gl
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My advice
Spend a day or 4 at an art gallery or Museum. Take your time at each piicture, make notes, what did he use that you can learn from?
Or go to art school, but you seemed more like a hands on kind of guy.
I think the talent is there without question. Like any muscle it needs to be trained, flexed, & used to be effective.
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Start easy.
Like, you could start making custom-ordered drawings in these games (AH, IL2, WW2OL).
Would Frenchy pay 25 bucks for a drawing of his P47 with his name on it & a 109 burning in the background?
Would some WW2OL geek pay to have his H75 drawn in a vulch run on a german airfield?
:)
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Originally posted by OIO
Start easy.
Like, you could start making custom-ordered drawings in these games (AH, IL2, WW2OL).
Would Frenchy pay 25 bucks for a drawing of his P47 with his name on it & a 109 burning in the background?
Would some WW2OL geek pay to have his H75 drawn in a vulch run on a german airfield?
:)
heck I would .. a nice 12x12 pencil/charcoal Eagler 109
what ya charge for something like that RedDg?
post some prices ... me thinks it'd be more than $25 :)
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Wow! you drew those? Count your blessings, lad. It's a gift indeed to have a talent like that.
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Some of the guys are on to something here.
Get a websight, and post some of your better work.
I used to get a free websight from Geocities..sucked but...well, it was free.
I would inquire with HTC about getting some banner space too.
The idea of drawing players' favorite rides would sell.
I would be more interested in if you could do something where you actually drew ME next to, or sitting in my favorite ride.
If you work in oils, E-bay is good. I make good money buying no name oils at garage sales for 5 bucks. I get anywhere from $20 to $200 for them on e-bay depending on the quality.
Theres alot of Aviation enthusiats out there. If you've got the talent, why not?
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If I may offer some constructive crisitcism, too...
The lines are great, but the pictures you displayed need more detail. Theres not much going on in the backround, and the planes need markings, panel lines, etc.
Check out some of the work on Art.com.
I paid $30 for a print of a spitfire from Barrie Clark. An original oil would fetch much more.
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/ui--8D06C75A1A714347B73D458D03DF820D/PD--10027899/sOrig--CRT/sOrigId--2333/Spitfire.htm#
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See if you can attend a business and marketing class or two. The SBA (Small Business Association) has a fantastic website with lots of resources. You might also want to obtain a business loan application - not so much to get a loan, but it gets you thinking along the lines of what it takes to run a business.
If starting a business doesn't interest you, check out local Co-ops that are owned and run by other artists. You'll have an opportunity to display and sell your art while collaborating with other artists. Contact other aviation artists directly by email or phone. Most are very personable and are happy to share what they've learned. There are also online distributors of aviation art, such as Brooks Aviation Art (http://www.brooksart.com/) and Fox Gallery (http://www.framingfox.com/faqabavart.html). That page at Fox has a great description of Aviation Art and some of the products you could consider providing.
MiG
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Reddg
I'll commission a drawing right now. I need a drawing of a Swordfish..the old torpedo bombers...used on the Taranto raids.
Seriously. I want it so that I can get a vet who flew one to sign it.
E-mail me at mrwolf_riaz@yahoo.com.
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"Wow! you drew those? Count your blessings, lad. It's a gift indeed to have a talent like that"
Indeed!
Ive always wanted to be able to do cartoonist work. Unfortunately the artistic side of my brain is dead. I cant draw a stickman without screwing it up.
Yet I know a girl who never took art class, never had any interest in drawing or cartoons...and she can draw anime PERFECTLY using a pen and without using a roughdraft.
un-believable.
I hate her. :D
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Nice Job Dog
One word try Ebay get a feel how much people will pay and won't cost ya much to try.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3520834050&category=360
as an example
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Hiyi RedDg:
I'm an artist and have been doing some research into doing some offset prints of some of my artwork.
My best advice is, take your original work to other artists for their critique. Your work looks very competent from the pics. Join your local art museum and arrange an appointment with the Director. See what he thinks. If you're a member of the museum, he may send some business your way.
Show your work to aviation museums, and become a member of the museum. This will help you get some "exposure." Enter the work in aviation related art shows...the Director could probably help you with locating them. You might even try looking for them on the Internet (Aviation Art shows.)
Being in shows helps build up your resume...and you need that to get started. Plus, it's good to meet other artists and get to know them. They can help you as far as joining local art associations if you are so inclined.
Always get involved with the local art scene.
............................. ............................. ............................. ..................
Offset prints are expensive to have made. I've done it before on a 500 edition poster of a Confederate soldier I painted. Because I did it on speculation, and had no agent to help sell 'em, I now have a lot of birthday presents...LOL.
;)
It's nice to meet you RedDg You didn't say what size the work you posted is. I imagined the first one as a large oil painting, and how neat that looks.
Les
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Reddog,
A couple of things to keep in mind for more realism:
Objects in the foreground of a composition generally have higher contrast, the lights are lighter and the darks darker. Also, I noticed immediately that the cast shadows(in your first image) are very black. This tends to deaden shadow, and unless your doing a Frank Miller/Sin City thing, try to steer away from too much black. You can create black by mixing blue, green, and red. this may be alittle difficult to accomplish at first with pastels, so if you have to use black, try to use some other color in there as well, possibly a cool color(blues, purps):)
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the real money artists get involved with military units and groups with large veteran populations. Make yourself a "name" by working in with people who would most want your art -- the military types and the enthusiasts. Charitable work is always a good "in".
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Originally posted by muckmaw
If I may offer some constructive crisitcism, too...
The lines are great, but the pictures you displayed need more detail. Theres not much going on in the backround, and the planes need markings, panel lines, etc.
Check out some of the work on Art.com.
I paid $30 for a print of a spitfire from Barrie Clark. An original oil would fetch much more.
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/ui--8D06C75A1A714347B73D458D03DF820D/PD--10027899/sOrig--CRT/sOrigId--2333/Spitfire.htm#
The 40" x 23" poster for $30.00 is a great value. If it's the standard deal, the artist gets half of that amount...$15.00. Producing a print yourself is very expensive. That one would be around $3000.00 to produce an edition of 500. $15 times 500 = $7500.00. Artist would gross $4500.00, and Art.com would make $7500.00. (Providing the entire edition sells...More money than the artist).
A lot of folks don't know that when you see a painting in a gallery, the artist only gets half of that amount at best...and sometimes even less. When an artist sells work to a dealer, it's for 50% retail price. If he sells to an agent, the artist gets 25% of retail. Normally the agent will buy the edition in this case, thus the discount.
It's a very headache business, and full of compromise for the artist. It goes with the territory. You gotta have a thick skin.
Les
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Here's another pointer, and then I'll shut up.:D
Never sell your copyright to anyone you don't want to profit off your work. Artwork is intellectual property, and is just as much a part of your estate as physical possessions.
I like to work in series, and then apply to the Library of Congress for official copyright forms. You can copyright a series of your prints for $25. All you have to do is send them slides of your work, along with the registration form. It used to be the law (federal), encumbent on the part of the artist, to do this within a five year period. Nowadays, the artist is automatically protected from copyright infringement, however, if unscrupulous folks do infringe...the only way to have a chance of winning in court, is to have LoC registration...in the event you decide to sue the scoundrels. :D
Good luck RedDg!!! There's a lot of administrative work you have to keep up with as well, especially when it comes to leaving work on consignment...but that's another thing. The older I get, the less appealing dealing with consignment becomes.
Les
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Originally posted by Leslie
The 40" x 23" poster for $30.00 is a great value. If it's the standard deal, the artist gets half of that amount...$15.00. Producing a print yourself is very expensive. That one would be around $3000.00 to produce an edition of 500. $15 times 500 = $7500.00. Artist would gross $4500.00, and Art.com would make $7500.00. (Providing the entire edition sells...More money than the artist).
A lot of folks don't know that when you see a painting in a gallery, the artist only gets half of that amount at best...and sometimes even less. When an artist sells work to a dealer, it's for 50% retail price. If he sells to an agent, the artist gets 25% of retail. Normally the agent will buy the edition in this case, thus the discount.
It's a very headache business, and full of compromise for the artist. It goes with the territory. You gotta have a thick skin.
Les
its a big money for artist anyway, heh
ramzey
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I've sold about $90,000 worth of artwork over a 20 year period Ramzey. Not too bad, but still around $5000 a year over 20 years. Considering that's the only job I've done for 20 years, I couldn't have done it without help from my parents, who supported me all that time. I do mostly etchings, which take a long time to complete. Two a year is doing well. Just to do 'em and complete 'em.
I would charge about $5000 to make a 8" x 10" etching plate on copper with an edition of 100 prints. But then, some artists are very fast and do beautiful etchings in a couple hours...though they're not minutely detailed. Detail is what takes all the time. Very labor intensive, the kind of work I do.
Les
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If you go the SBA route get your wife involved. Make her the owner on paper and that will give you access to minority SBA assistance.
Definetly copywright your stuff. I bet someone all ready has a copy of your work sitting in their PC.
If you are not very keen on creating your own web site...I bet someone here will cut you a break and design a real nice one for you. Might only cost you a drawing or two. Gotta love barter systems. :)
Ohhh and you might try renting an exhibit stall at your next local air show. I went to the AirSho in Midland Texas and the guy with the framed F4U pics walked off with four hundred bucks.
Hope it works out for ya! GL!
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I think you need to create an alliance with fatty. His art will help you sell loads of prints. That is, if you don't mind riding someones coat tales to fame and fortune.
Drex
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Originally posted by Drex
I think you need to create an alliance with fatty. His art will help you sell loads of prints. That is, if you don't mind riding someones coat tales to fame and fortune.
Drex
Fatty's a pretty good artist. He goes to life drawing class just to look.:D
Les
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I like the drawings how they are because it does seem to be different from the plethora of other aviation artists.
What he has there in my opinion is some perfect art for Aviation books.Perhaps contacting various publishers with a large portfolio would be a good start.This way you would likely sell more pictures at once if they happen to like your pictures.
Rather than change the pictures to add in more detail as was suggested I would actually start a completely new picture with lots of detail and show you can do both styles. You may find they prefer the less detailed but more unusual ones like yours.
BTW try acrylics before you use oils.If you want to paint in oils i think tuition at college would help tremendously.One art teacher can teach you a thousand tricks with oils that have been used by artist for years :).You add your own style to them of course ;)
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I like the e-bay idea. Great place to get your name known. Do some sketches in pencil and e-bay them! Great advertizing place to get your name out fast!!
Then you could do a link to your web site.
Good luck!!
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I'm no expert but I like what I see of your work. I see from your addy you live in Dayton well how about hitting the Convention and trying some of the earlier ideas out by getting people to buy their favorite rides in charcoal from you. To save time have a selection ready and then you can always add the players name to his ride once the sale is done.
Not sure how you feel about any of these ideas but may I wish you the best of luck for the future.
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I think I might be able to give you a few pointers.... First you need more action.. Second you need to have more realism..
This is from my portfolio so you can get get a better idea of what real combat graphics should look like. But you didn't do too bad for your first try.. You'll get it soon :D
(http://www.vzavenue.net/~sjt/art.jpg)
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They had Jewish P47's with cowl mounted guns in WWII?!
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WTG CREAMO!.... You ARE a quick study!..... There may have been some slight artistic licence taken by this GREAT Artist!.... It leaves more for the serious minded to observer to appriciate!
:p
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lol, I did come in 1st, AND third in the Creamo contest.
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It's to bad my lovely MS Paint artwork is no longer around to be enjoyed.
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Why not carve your most awesome drawings in wood, brass, aluminum, plastics or whatever, except hard metal.
Get this program here:
http://www.peasley.com/photo_carvings.htm
Then get one of these fine machines from Canada here:
http://www.larkencnc.com/cam24/index.shtml
There are many different benchtop cnc machines but this one has a stand alone program and a large cutting area.
If you wanna cut your drawings in steel or other metals, get a plasma cutter like torchmate.
You have a talent, open up your customer base.
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Thanks to everyone who replied. For the most part (including friends and family) I have received posititve feedback. For those who contacted me privately I hope I've answered your questions and look forward to hearing from you.
BTW, these weren't necessarily the pictures I was hoping to market. Was just giving an example of what I managed to get on canvas in the last 5 years or so. A funny stiry about just how new I am to this: All the above pictures were drawn with either pencil, charcoal, or pastel chalk -- All on canvases that I bought. Only when I was finished with them all did I realize that the canvases were made for acrylic paint:rolleyes:
Ah well, but in the end it gave the pictures a grainy look that I liked. I will look into the great suggestions made and let you know how it goes. See you in the skies.
(http://www.x-plane.org/users/reddog56th/Dark_Thunder_1024.jpg)
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The first rule of a successful business is to sell.
You have an offer to buy above yet you did not respond.
Weird.:confused:
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Curval,
email sent. Sorry for the delay, and look forward to hearing from you.
RedDog
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Red,
Nice work!!! I love aviation art. I have been dabbling in it for a couple years and have even tossed around the idea of selling it myself.
Prints can be pricey, but a quality print only has to sell a certain number before the rest is profit. Next yo have to consider ditribution method. You can't charge for a pic then fold it into an envelope.
Someone mentioned doing special request for people. That is fine, but remember you will have to recover your costs from 1 paiting. I have a tendancy to spend hours sometimes hundreds on paintings and woul be making next to nothing or selling them for a ton hehe.
I have done some paintings for friends and have 3 works published in books. This Xmas I did a pic for Busher. His wife comissioned me behind his back and bought him an airbrushed colour plate of a spitIX with his personal call letters on the side like a wingCO would have.
Anyhow, be sure to enjoy your art.
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Thunder!!!!!!!!
Is that an original???? Did you do it???? How much????
That is so realistic I have even asked my wife to allow it over our mantle in the living room!!!!!
LOL GREAT PIC...
RedDg....great artwork...what did you do in the AF? Im active duty at Kirtland Afb...flying MC130s.
Regards
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Originally posted by RedDg
I’ve never studied art, nor care particularly about art history.
If you draw like that and have never studied or even taken any type of art class, you've got a natural talent and you shouldn't keep it hidden from the rest of us.
Of course the only mark against you is that there isn't a P-38 in any of those images you posted.
Ack-Ack
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Redd, my wife has been a professional artist and art teacher since long before we were married. You have a wonderful talent, and I like your work. Develop it, learn, and don't get discouraged. Recognition for an artist is hard to come by, with loads of competition out there.
BUT, keep your day job. If it weren't for my work, my wife would be on welfare. She wins awards, gets ribbons in shows, and is admired by her peers, but art doesn't sell for anything like the cost of production, if you factor in the artist's labor. My wife's work sells in the 2000-5000 dollar area, but each painting takes a couple of months to complete. Do the math. Starvation wages.
Leslie's suggestions, and many others, are all good. We haven't had a lot of luck on the internet, but that's not necessarily going to be your experience. I think aviation art may be more popular (at least within a small community of clients) than is traditional still life, figures, and landscapes. The print market sure looks good, and I would look in WINGS, AVIATION HISTORY or AIRPOWER at the ads by the big names. I am surprised how much they ask for (soemtimes) obviously flawed compositions.
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Guttboy,
Thanks for the kind words, and you bet it's an original. Hangs in my son's bedroom. I knew from day one that he would be my little wingman in future simming exploits:D
Meanwhile, my daughter was due to be born May 27th and hasn't come out yet. She already has her daddy's stubbornness. :p
When I was active duty I was a 491X1, 3C0X1 Communications/Computer Systems Operator. I did everthing from Base Telephone Operator to Small Computer Repair, Networking, Mainframes, etc. I dreamed of being a pilot but astigmatism kept me out.
I know a few folks who are out your way....Kirtland AFB
but it's a dry heat
and belated thank you on this passing Memorial Day.
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dsrtrat hasnt posted the link to his paintings, so i will! here you go :
http://www.geocities.com/hornets418/pics
love the hurri IID one, the spit at the bottom is the one he did for busher.
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Originally posted by Furball
dsrtrat hasnt posted the link to his paintings, so i will! here you go :
http://www.geocities.com/hornets418/pics
love the hurri IID one, the spit at the bottom is the one he did for busher.
That desert scene is fantastic work !!! You really get a sense of motion in the picture.