Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Replicant on May 18, 2003, 04:31:56 AM
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I can't say I've given it a lot of notice but it appears that the MA numbers are getting smaller. Is it just when Trinity is on or do you think people are waiting for AH2?
The reason I say is that usually late Saturday night there's about 500-550 people on (UK time) and yet recently there's only been less than 250-300. It just suprised me big time to see so few numbers on.
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3 of my squadies closed accounts last 2 months. They all were in AH for 1.5+ years. I think it is general burnout, though one directly mentioned Trinity as a reason. I think they will back with AHII though.
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My squad are waiting for AHII and generally fly squad nights only now. The whining about strat and bombers and the way HTC seem to give in to these players has already lost me one squad mate this month. Might well be looking for a new sim if AHII don't cut the mustard. Generally speaking though I think it's a little bit of burnout coupled with the usual summertime slow down of numbers while everyone is out doing RL stuff in the sun.
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Originally posted by Replicant
I can't say I've given it a lot of notice but it appears that the MA numbers are getting smaller. Is it just when Trinity is on or do you think people are waiting for AH2?
The reason I say is that usually late Saturday night there's about 500-550 people on (UK time) and yet recently there's only been less than 250-300. It just suprised me big time to see so few numbers on.
Are u notice scenario was last 4 weeks?
Most of ppls was tired to fly after that.
When u look at US times, arena is pretty full. Its not the same like during free month when server reach maximum, but its not bad.
I can say ppl go away and come back, normal rotation.
ramzey
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Originally posted by ramzey
Are u notice scenario was last 4 weeks?
Most of ppls was tired to fly after that.
When u look at US times, arena is pretty full. Its not the same like during free month when server reach maximum, but its not bad.
I can say ppl go away and come back, normal rotation.
ramzey
Scenario had 200-250 people involved, which is less than 5% of AH player base. From them some people almost never fly MA, and I do not understand how 8 hours of playing during the month shall be so tirefull that people can stop playing just due to it. Ok, even if it is 50 such people who tired and do not fly MA now, it is under 1% of AH total player base.
It is easy to find out if number of players growing or going down. To do so you need to check the worst rank number during top hour during last day or 2 of tour. I do not know what is the reason, but by my observations numbers are falling. Before you had ranks around 5000 in first week of tour, now it is 4000 in mid of tour. I do not think it is anywhere near fatal, but still numbers drop is noticable. Still it may be that people just play less, do not mean that all those people canceled accounts.
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looking at myself i play MA less then 6 months ago, my squadies too. Som have exams in schools, som like spring and beergartens;) som have other thinngs to do.
When i start working on new terrain skins project my hours on MA lower to 10-15 per month. Imho its just spring.
I have 3-4 squadies who tell me they come back in month or 2.
Som back allready.
Sure i miss ppls who fly here last year, fights on MA are not so exciting like was year ago.
I notice many new names in air too.
No doubt profile of game is change from air-air to ground fights.
/less expirienced players?/
Terrain like trinity with 2 -3 furball areas per country not help to stay on MA.
But i not see dramatical drop of numbers.
ramzey
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Nicer weather. People find other things to do when the sun is shining. The numbers always go down alittle when the end of spring anf begining of summer rolls around.
Fishing
Yard Work
Offspring more active
Flower and food gardens
Home Improvement
A number of things can keep players away form AH during this time of year.
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Well if good weather is the cause, I'm glad Lazs and Nopoop live in CA - the weather there is generally excellent from May onwards, and perhaps we can look forward to hearing less from them about proposed strat changes in the strat based MA - from guys who have no interest in strat.
:confused: :rolleyes:
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Ramzey is RIGHT, EXAMS start in about 2weeks for highschool and we'll if u wanna pass u have to study right , well all i am sayin is maybe after exams I'LL BE ON FROM DUSK TO DAWN;)
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Numbers are pretty constant west coast primetime. The high 400's. They were in the 500's and higher during the free trial. Usually have 30-40 guys up not in squads on an average evening.
Not seeing it here.
Cute rolleye beet1e.
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In the past four weeks, I've flown just one Squad Op...
I drifted into this break and now, whenever I think about going back on, I seem to find something else to do instead.
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Ive noticed these strange terms being used,such as 'Outside' and 'real life' can someone explain to me what they are? should I be seeking them too? how do they compare to AH? do they cost more than 14.95 a month? is real life overmodelled? maybe Ive been with the flock too long....
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Spring/early summer are usually when most of the "I quit..." posts start running rampant. If you don't believe me, look at this forum in the month of may for the last 3 years.
Combine that with the phenomina that happens when updates take longer than 3 months and you are bound to see a dip in the headcount.
Hopefully, its more people not flying as much (how it is with me too) and not as much cancelled accounts. Just need to keep the $$$ rolling in until AH-2 is out.
MiniD
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As it is now, AHII will mark the end of my involvement and my account. I've got other things to do besides upgrade this machine.
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shooting at a benchmark of p3 900 doesnt seem like much of an upgrade but given that the current min req of PII 333 someone will get left behind.
It will also take time to redo all the planes to the updated art. The biggest hit early will come from the new terrain type.
Back on topic ---- my squad had 24 at the first of the year. I think only 3 or so still play ah regularly. I have an account but I have only participated in the past 2 scenarios.
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Summer for me.
Don't fly as much, but still fly.
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
As it is now, AHII will mark the end of my involvement and my account. I've got other things to do besides upgrade this machine.
LOL! I guess when you spend all your time on the BBS just trying to piss people off... you have a hard time trying to shut that mode down.
And sandman... nobody really believes you really have other things to do. Though... alot of people believe you'd find other things to do just to spite them.
MiniD
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Actaully I've been running my own personal census on the MA. For the past 2 weeks every day at 7pm Pac time. I log on and jot down the map and the numbers in a spread sheet. I orginally intend to prove the unpopularity of the pizza map. Turns out numbers are about the same. 450-550 on the ave everyday. I don't think the numbers are going down in primetime hours.
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ive actually noticed and increase in numbers in hth as well as more and more regular MA folks actually flying hth a little bit more often...strange
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Originally posted by Joc
Ive noticed these strange terms being used,such as 'Outside' and 'real life' can someone explain to me what they are? should I be seeking them too? how do they compare to AH? do they cost more than 14.95 a month? is real life overmodelled? maybe Ive been with the flock too long....
It's the Big Room -- you know, the one with the ceiling that's sometimes blue, sometimes grey, sometimes a mixture of blue and white, and sometimes black with a lot of little white dots... and the bright light that illuminates the room when the ceiling is blue.
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this dose not include all you brown nosers..
BUT..
1 people are bored of a game which will not be updated.
2 people are getting bored of a game that is not gonna be fixed.
3 people are getting bored of a game that has no imput from the HTC staff regarding updates..
4 trinity is driving peeps away..
i still love it...but even im not playing as much...
give people an up date ... a new plane or fix ground vehicals.. and they will be happy till AH2..
or why not reduce the subscription, because if this was a bought game of the shelves it would be in the bargain bucket bin now, after 6 months plus with no update... like il2 and sub is free there
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AH numbers are allways highest following a release and then gradually decline untill another version is released. It's been that way since 1.02 .
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I think the #'s from this weekend were still pretty high...got into the 550's a couple times that I saw....however I'd say "average" headcount has been declining. Personally I think AH's "best days" were 18 months ago or more. Truthfully, I'm probably in the minority. I like the flight part of flight sim and all this "stratagy" stuff is just so much fluff to me.
As a side note had an interesting discussion on channel 1, started with someones "score" comments...which led to Shanes comments:D ...anyway my 2 cents was score is irrelevent to air combat capabilities...I'd say 10% of the top 500 are what I'd call "real good" sticks. Just after that ran into a "top 25" guy in an La-7 who thought my jug was a bit of fresh meat...30 sec later we had parts on aisle 3. Now this guy actually is a pretty good stick (and a class act) and got bushwacked a bit since I T&B a jug decently. Anyway I think the evolution of the game has taken it away from many of the "old core" casual (vs scenario) vet. Simply less fun for many...at least me.
I'm curious how many folks from the open beta still have active accounts?
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Originally posted by humble
I'm curious how many folks from the open beta still have active accounts?
(Raises hand)
you should start a new thread with a poll!
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Just one question.
How many of the people who are no longer online were flying for free with the promotion HTC advertised? Seems like that just ended in March. I wonder how long those folks are included in the 'head count' Fariz provided.
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I'd say a lot of the 'old hands' have quit, or are not playing much at all while waiting for AH2. While numbers aren't decreasing, the overall "quality" of the experience definately is. At least in my opinion, the focus of the game has shifted from air combat to "building battling" as Lazs would put it. The game has never been very 'diverse' as far as what planes you see, but constantly seeing the same 4 planes over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseum burns people out a bit quicker than I'd say is 'normal'. Personally I've been in a constant state of burnout for about a year now, occasionally I'll fly a lot when I "re-discover" how enjoyable some planes can be to fly (the 109G-6 was my last one) only to get run down by la7s and chewed to bits by 5-20 people (depending on how large their pack is at the time) several times in a row reminds me of why it is pretty much a waste of time to fly anything other than the la7, spit, n1k (those 2 in packs), or P51 in the MA (or the 109G10 if you are feeling brave and lucky, and are a great shot).
Pretty much a 'fight' in the MA terms starts when the Tiffies come in to pork the fuel at the field, and ends when one side gets more la7s, spits, n1ks, and P51s than the other side. It is extraordinarily rare for a fight to just 'develop' between two fields, people are to afraid to go towards an enemy base unless they have 25 other people with them, which pretty much ends any chance for a fight as soon as all the dots start popping up on radar. Yes, occasionally you will get some idiot that enjoys being vulched 4,000 times (which is why I think the vast majority of the 'mishuns' can maintain cohesion while they take field after field), but usually its just pork the fuel, kill the ack (and yes... in that order, nowadays), kill the town, take the field, repeat.
Just 'patrolling' an area used to be a good way to get 5-6 kills a sortie, you could find other people doing the same thing and get in multiple 1v1 fights. That doesn't happen anymore.
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Urchin, I agree with you. And something as basic, usual and important in RL as patrolling, is here ridiculously punished by the kill per time score factor. CAP does not exit anymore, only the perpetual gangbang of spits and La7s.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'd say a lot of the 'old hands' have quit, or are not playing much at all while waiting for AH2. While numbers aren't decreasing, the overall "quality" of the experience definately is. At least in my opinion, the focus of the game has shifted from air combat to "building battling" as Lazs would put it. The game has never been very 'diverse' as far as what planes you see, but constantly seeing the same 4 planes over and over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseum burns people out a bit quicker than I'd say is 'normal'....
Yep... I took a 4 month break, started back less than a week ago and I feel burn-out just around the corner.
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For a lot of reasons you have stated above is why I like the vastness of the akdesert terrain. The terrain is large enough that it affords me the opportunity to go to some less populated part of the map and have my little 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 fights that make me happy, while at the same time accomodating the hoards elsewhere on the map .
For the last year or so I've spent more time in h2h than in ma .
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It seems folks are conjuring up lots of reasons for fewer numbers. I for one know from the experience of playing/flying online sims for years now, that the weather has an awful lot to do with it. It has been a much colder fall and winter, and at the slightest hint of sunlight and warm weather, people can't wait to get out of doors. Summer months also will show fewer numbers up in the arenas. Hehe, the perfect time for those who have complained about too many up and flying, to get back in there and get in some 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 fights.:D
It oughta be eeeenteresting :cool:
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I know that this will be seen as a thinly-veiled whine, but it really isn't (at least in my opinion). I was looking at my 'expanded stats', and I was amazed at the numbers, honestly.
228 kills. Of those- 24 La-7s, 21 P-51Ds, and a whopping 39 spits. Yes, Karnak et al, I am aware that the Spit V is different from the Spit IX, but for me they may as well be the same plane. Actually that isnt really true, but the only difference is the Spit V is easier to kill since it can't go vertical as well. For me, the '4th plane' this tour has been the P-38 with 16 kills. So, 4 plane types account for 44% of my kills. I was actually surprised I hadn't seen more N1Ks (I see quite a few, guess I don't kill that many). I'm sure that if I go back through I'll find the same thing for the past year, at least. Just for comparison, here are the other fighters I've killed. I threw the P-51B in here, but it is just about the same thing as a P-51D for all intents and purposes.
A6MX- 3 kills, 109X- 4 kills, C20X- 2 kills, F4U- 6 kills, F6F- 4 kills, F4F- 1 kill, 190X- 6 kills, Hurricane- 3 kills, La-5- 2 kills, N1K- 2 kills, Mossie- 1 kill, 262- 1 kill, P-40- 3 kills (those were all today), P-47- 8 kills, P-51B- 1 kill, 152- 1 kill, Typhoon- 5 kills (I see more, have a hard time catching them though), Yak- 9 kills. The total number of every other fighter I've killed is 62 (~27%), or less than the top 4 put together.
That, combined with the building battling is enough to keep me burned out. I'm really just biding my time until AH2 and hopefully the Trainer Academy, so I can teach people how to fight.
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Good posts, Urchin. I know you're an air combat guy, and I'm a building battler, but what a lot of people fail to realise is that there are lots of kills to be had in the course of building battling. Even I had 340 kills in fighters in tour 39. (I've given up scoring Attack sorties separately - porks my k/h when flying jabo missions, but who cares)
But even though we play on opposite sides of the fence, so to speak, I absolutely agree about the same 4-5 planes being used. My most frequent kills (of aircraft) are: Spit ix, LA7, P38L, P51D and N1K - in that order. The steamroller planes. I see that many people are fed up with the steamroller, but what to do? An RPS? No! No! No!, they cry - People will leave! Thing is, people are already leaving.
AH1 main arena pilot performs preflight check
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/newbiesteamroller.jpg)
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I think if HTC thought that 4 or 5 planes dominating the main arena was a problem, they would address it by adjusting perk point costs and/or ENY values.
I'd sure be interested to see a system where the number of perked planes is much expanded and pilot's perk balances are reset to some starting value every tour. It might turn out to be the most addictive version of play yet.
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I don't think that HTC sees it as a problem, to be honest with you. There is no negative effect on the bankroll, so it isn't a problem. What a lot of people don't realize is just how much this game has expanded merely in the two years I've been here. When I first started playing, 'primetime' was like 70-80 players. Now, it is 500ish, even on the weekdays. That is huge growth.
There isn't any reason to fix what ain't broke.
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I've left Aces High.
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Originally posted by oboe
I think if HTC thought that 4 or 5 planes dominating the main arena was a problem, they would address it by adjusting perk point costs and/or ENY values.
I'd sure be interested to see a system where the number of perked planes is much expanded and pilot's perk balances are reset to some starting value every tour. It might turn out to be the most addictive version of play yet.
Yes, indeed. In the past (before I joined AH) the F4U-1C was unperked. Then it was found that everyone (by which I mean a disproportionately large number of players) was flying it. So they perked it first to 8pp, now to 13pp, in order to restore the balance. Now things are out of balance again, with the steamroller planes listed above collectively outnumbering everything else. But this time, HTC is doing nothing to restore balance.
I always remember how in WB, which had an RPS, that on the last day, the arena would be awash with 262s - 60% of the arena. AH solves that by having perks, but in my view (and, I believe, that of other people who have posted in this thread) some changes are needed.
Whatever they do, not everyone will like it. There will be whines. Maybe HTC knows this and has therefore decided to do nothing, in order not to have to deal with whines while trying to deploy AH2.
Mitsu!!! Come back! Where will I find my soundpacks from now on? :(
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The only was to reduce the sucide porkers is to take away the incentive, take away reset perks, hardening targets will only make the suicide gang larger. But, when there's no good reason to die for a reset, folks will stop trying to die for a reset.. end of the steamroller.
Q: But Booz! what will we do?!? what would our purpose be then if not to reset a map?
A: Learn to fly, the map will rotate when it rotates.
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Last night 2000 CDT, there were 440 in the MA, 40 in the CT, about 16 or so in the DA and another handful in the TA...
I don’t see as how the membership is falling off.
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Still here from Open Beta.
Still like to fly - just do it very well.
Sour
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Haven't seen less than 400 in months. Alot you see quitting bounce from game to game anyway. I've seen it happen for years, nothing new. The core is still here.
Open beta? Yep and I'm still here. I kinda cotton ta that HT feller.
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Bunch of interesting comments...especially coming from urchin,suave,Tumor & Mandoble (not meaning any disrespect to others)...guys who've been around the flight sim community (here and other games) for a long time. Seems our thoughts all tend to mirror each other in many ways. We all "grew up" in a less dense arena divided into a couple of distinct player types. To build any kind of success you had to survive the invariable 1 vs 1 and 1 vs 2-3 that occured almost every hop. A "big furball" was 6-7 guys from each side.
Now we're in an enviornment where actual ACM skills and tactics are less than 5% of the game (my feeling). This is anhanced by a scoring system that rewards you for a lack of ability in that area by forcing you to become a grunt/bomber puke if you want to "score".....sigh
Just wondering how long till they change the name from Aces High to Aces left.
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Originally posted by humble
Now we're in an enviornment where actual ACM skills and tactics are less than 5% of the game (my feeling). This is anhanced by a scoring system that rewards you for a lack of ability in that area by forcing you to become a grunt/bomber puke if you want to "score".....sigh
ACM and tactics certainly account for more than 5% of the game IMO, though undeniably the focus has shifted since the open beta. I can't help but feel that it's not just the increased numbers that yield the greater numbers of timid cherry pickers. Somewhere along the line, the proportion of timid pilots began increasing without regard to the increasing MA numbers.
Whereas the fight was once the only thing -- the thing that base capture facilitated rather than retarded -- it's now just one of many things. Fighting for its own sake requires a different paradigm than "winning" the war. The one involves contact, combat, furballing. The other benefits from avoiding combat or attacking with overwhelming force where enemies show weakness. Two different games, two different ways of playing.
These changes result not from changes in the types of players playing so much as from conscious design choices: introducing the concept of perk points, allowing map resets, awarding perks for "winning," increasing capture difficulty, etc.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Mitsu!!! you're not allowed to leave! :(
unless you keep doing soundpacks. :) In which case, feel free to do what ya want! :D
! I love your soundpacks. They really make the game more enjoyable.
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Mitsu-
WHat are you doing now, if not AH?
PLease don't say real life, or something silly.
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I can't see HTC perking the La7 not while it can be used by those new to the game to get kills relatively easy, plenty of speed, turns very well and has weaponary that would make a Death Star blush.
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See? This is what happens when HTC fails to introduce more ground vehicles, like the Sherman Calliope, the Russian T-34, the Jagdpanzer, and the .50 cal Browning M2 armed jeep.
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"La7 ... blah blah blah ... has weaponary that would make a Death Star blush."
Come Revvin ... that part of your statement is just a little over the top ... ok ... a lot over the top. Yes it has cannons, so when they hit ya they pack a punch, but the ballistic suck. The Hurri IIc cannons are much moer devastating than the cannons in the La-7. Why is that ?
If you aren't an experienced La-7 pilot, and you are a card carrying member of the "spray 'n pray club" (which most noobs are), you won't get very many kills, if any, and you will run out of ammo very quickly.
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Ya, I'm back also after almost two months away. Just don't have the time I use to. Nothing wrong with the game. Same old same old, but I enjoy it. I think HTC will have a rough time in the online game market as I've taken some time to explore other games such as Planetside. How do you compete with a large company with unlimited capital and advertising power. I would say competition is to blame for any number drop rather than Trinity (which I think is the best map in rotation).
I play cause I like the online game, the WWII history and the fact this is a flight sim is just a bonus. AHII will be a good change, need to keep the game moving and expanding to spark interest. On the flip side, no other flight sim comes close to AH.
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Just did a pretty extensive review of the MA stats...
Since June of 2001, Fighter vs Fighter kills have accounted for around 55% of all kills in the MA. Since February of this year, that number has been steadily declining to the 40% mark at the end of tour 39 (an all time low for any tour where a new release did not introduce new ground vehicles).
It seems the perception of "increasing" or "decreasing" numbers in the MA are based on a) what you do in the MA and b) what you look at for indicators.
The raw data can be found here (http://www.dbstaines.com/TourStats/Raw/RawUsage.htm).
MiniD
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I closed my account last week. No big "I quit" thread or the like...I just found myself not playing much and why pay for a service I'm not gonna use. Its not like I can't come back when I either have the time, or something in the game changes that I just *have* to subscribe and experience it.
Plus, I have hand surgery next week...working on my burnt hand and doing some plastic surgery and skin grafting (from my thigh). So, I aint gonna be doing a whole lot for a bit after that. *sigh*
And its summer, I'm trying to get AWAY from the PC on the nice days :p
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Ouch. Good Luck LePaul, hope everything goes OK.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Plus, I have hand surgery next week...working on my burnt hand and doing some plastic surgery and skin grafting (from my thigh). So, I aint gonna be doing a whole lot for a bit after that. *sigh*
I told you to stop playing Charcoal Baseball at those family barbeques! :p
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"These changes result not from changes in the types of players playing so much as from conscious design choices: introducing the concept of perk points, allowing map resets, awarding perks for "winning," increasing capture difficulty, etc.
-- Todd/Leviathn"
yep... well said. Making the building battlers feel that they are not just acting timidly and without talent and that they are indeed useful and needed and... "respected" by other players is a huge mistake. And... as levi says.. increasing field capture difficulty... the fields should fall easily and be closer together... fields that are far apart and easy to ruin but hard to capture are the bane of fun.
lazs
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Outside,what's this outside you speak off?
There's nothing out there for me no... there is not... ;)