Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: beet1e on May 19, 2003, 06:12:05 AM
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There have been many suggestions of late to tweak this, harden that, perk the other... -all suggestions designed to favour one particular style of AH gameplay - usually that of the author of the thread in which the suggestion was posted. :rolleyes:
Well I have some views of my own! I find that suicide runs to the CV can be quite exasperating. :mad: Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with a side attacking a CV which threatens one of their bases. The real rub is the suicidal, one-way-ticket nature of these attempts.
I have always loved carrier ops, so last night went to the defence of the Bish CV that had dropped anchor perilously close to an enemy base! :eek: If I hadn't had my hands full, I'd have moved it myself. There were about three of us in planes, defending against wave after wave after wave of suicide B17/ju88/LANC formations. We killed them all - most of the CV guns were manned. So then there was a respite before the onslught resumed, and it came down to the usual AH1 scenario - the numerical supremacy smashdown. :( No real skills involved, just numbers.
The real issue is the re-uppage factor. Some guys made 3,4 or maybe more attempts. With gameplay like that, the outcome is inevitable.
I filmed the whole thing, and you can view my film. My question is: Should this gaminess be addressed in AH1, or do we wait for AH2? What other changes would you suggest? I make none here.
Click here to get the film. (http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/suicidingthecv.zip)
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That's what passes for the Sacred Strat.
I'd think you' be proud of the way the enemy "team" all worked together to remove the Strategic Threat of the CV from the immediate location of their base. All those players, pulling together to achieve a common strategic goal!
And you don't like it. I'm saddened. I thought this was what you were always espousing. Team play, common strategic goals, never give up attitude.
PS: The fight is the thing. All else is just rubbish.
:D
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The term "hoisted by his own petard" comes to mind...
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
That's what passes for the Sacred Strat.
Erm... no, looks more like a steamroller. But that's OK, you're entitled to your views. Twas a good movie though, wasn't it? All those explosions... Did you trouble to watch it? Didn't think so. Come on Bufo, I know you've got broadband. It's only 1.37MB. :D
Lazs! Awww, come on now. I got 4 kills plus a prox kill in less than 11 minutes. That's a k/h of 25+ when expressed as an hourly rate! I thought that was the ONLY thing that mattered to you. Maybe you're just upset because you don't know how to upload files to your own webspace. :D
Ooops, that was a bit below the belt.
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Originally posted by Toad
PS: The fight is the thing. All else is just rubbish.:D
That would have been funny at one time. But in light of the wave of account cancellations in recent weeks, and for the reasons given, it isn't funny at all.
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Of course I didn't watch it. It's a rerun. That happens every night in the MA; is Mr. Beetle's Big Adventure somehow different from what we've all seen and do every night?
As for your poke at Laz, you stuck yourself in the eye. CV fights are some of the absolute BEST action on any map and without doubt the VERY BEST action on Infinity.
The trouble is some Strat minded individual feels he must seek glory and his country's highest honor by sinking the CV and ending the fun.
Best to get two opposing furballin' Captains to put 2 CV's way, way out to sea but out of gun/PT range of each other and have a wonderful night in AH. :D
Properly done, CV's fights are IT........ because the fight is the thing, Coleoptera Chrysomelidae.
Admit it.. you enjoyed the fast and furious action, didn't you? You don't have to be ashamed; hair won't grow on your palm because you furballed with your hair on fire. ;)
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ya know beetle... as well as you claim you do... one would think yur stats would reflect it. And most things you say are from below the belt... as in talking out yur....
I don't have a webspace. don't even know what one is.
lazs
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Ah, of course you didn't watch it, Bufo Marinus. I expect you're busy with other things. Like initiating a campaign to HTC to have GV pintle guns weakened. But that's OK. Do what you've always done. Don't like a situation? Have HTC program a way out for you. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by beet1e
That would have been funny at one time. But in light of the wave of account cancellations in recent weeks, and for the reasons given, it isn't funny at all.
LOL!
If it isn't just the "summer hiatus", which I think is the true cause because it's a "historical" phenomenom, the TRUE REASON for any "wave of account cancellations" is because of the near total LACK OF GOOD FIGHTS.
Face it. Being in the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde isn't much fun. You have to scratch, scramble and squabble with your own kill-stealing countrymen to get credit for a vulch of the poor outnumbered and lower bastiges trying to defend their territory against hopeless odds. Some fun. Some ACM. Blah.
And of course, if you happen to be on the receiving end of the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde, you have the pleasure of fighting overwhelming odds in aircraft that are usually much lower and at a much lower E state than the attackers. You may shoot one or two down and then spend three or four minutes continually dodging the five guys chasing you before the six, seventh or eighth one gets you.
Face it; the days where you could find a few v few fight are gone now. Unless you stumble into a good CV setup which will only last until the heroes of strategery sink the boat.
And if there's ANY reason accounts are being cancelled other than summer, it's the "steamroller strat" aspect that dominates AH.
IMO.
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Go ahead, Coleoptera Chrysomelidae make that short list of all the things that I have asked HTC to change and post it for all to see. :D
I just play the game. Always have. But really, do make a list of my pleading to have something changed my way. I'd love to see what you come up with.
Yeah, I posted on the pintle gun. That's about the only one I remember. It's too egregious for even me to overlook.
And as I said, I ALWAYS look for a decent CV engagement when I log in. They are the ONLY good action left, IMO.
So, yeah, I've seen you're film. From my own cockpit. Or one just like it. ;)
Is there something special about yours?
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geeze toad... you are sounding a lot like me these days... well... a more articulate version of me but... just the same...
It's no fun to gangbang and it's no fun to be gangbanged... the only good fites in the MA happen between the close fields or the cv's.
in infinity... I will up in a tempest to chase down a cowardly dee 9 or pee 51... It is not much fun tho... they run and run and at the last minute... pick really boring ways to die. I wonder if it is a excietting to them as it is boring to me?
lazs
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Bufo - I was using a generic "You", as I hate the Australian derivation "Yous". Saw plenty of them in Yorkshire last week, with little lambs hanging off them. You (Toad) and Lazs and Nopoop are all birds of a feather, and have in recent times whined for map rotation, fields closer together, end to suicide fuel porker, clamoured for 163 (not that you want it yourself, but want to thwart buffs), whined about the other team being organised, whined about pizza, whined about trinity, whined about "indestructible" pintle guns... Hehe, not such a short list - and I came up with it off the top of my head.
Now you must excuse me. I have some things to attend to...
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Just increase the cost of subscription back to $29.95 like it was early on. That will get rid of alot of that cheap crap and bring the fun factor back to a worthwhile level.
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Originally posted by lazs2
geeze toad... you are sounding a lot like me these days... well... a more articulate version of me but... just the same...
Thats the final straw Toad , your membership in the TAS is in serious jeporady.
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If that was the generic "you", you (specifically) need to work on your writing style.
And while you link me with the aforementioned "causes" (map rotation, fields closer together, end to suicide fuel porker, clamoured for 163, whined about the other team being organised, whined about pizza, whined about trinity, whined about "indestructible" pintle guns) you (specifically) are wrong once again.
I don't care about map rotation. It's not the map, it's the fight that makes AH fun. If there's good fights, maps don't matter. I pointed this out in the Trinity thread that NB participated in where he agreed with ME (not you ) about one guy causing damage to fuel that penalized half the plane set and took 7 guys to repair.
Fields closer together? I haven't campaigned for it, but I think it might make for more fun fights. You see, the fight's the thing; as long as a map provides good fight opportunities, that's fine.
Suicide fuel porker? Again, see the Trinity thread featuring NB. Even that map's creator thinks that needing 7 goon sorties to repair what one fighter can do to fuel is wrong. Says he's going to try to fix it. I say, let them pork fuel; but let the repair of said fuel be of an approximately equal effort to the destruction of said fuel. Again, let them pork fuel; the fight's the thing. If one guy can pork it, then one guy should be able to fix it to a decent level and keep the fight going. 7 to 1 is a little out of whack.
Clamored for the 163? Jets and rockets are for kids. You don't see ME (specifically) clamoring for any of those. Because they don't make for good fights...... and the fight's the thing.
I don't whine about Pizza. For some reason I always find good fights on Pizza. And, you see, the fight's the thing. It's the raison d'etre for AH.
I don't whine about Trinity per se. As you can find in the Trinity/NB thread, I think I said the map doesn't matter as long as the opportunity is there for a good fight. Because the fight's the thing. Trinity has some good CV action... when the strateegeristas don't pork them by sinking the boats.
Pintle gun? Yep, that's posted by me. After reading an awful lot about WW2 aviation, I just haven't found the big, long list of tank commanders that became aces by shooting down enemy aircraft with their .30 caliber ring mount pintle guns. I think something is out of balance here, sort of like one guy knocking a field's fuel down to 25% in three quick passes resulting in a need for 7 long resupply sorties just to bring it back up to 50%. A question of balance is all. A question.
But theres' absolutely no question that the fight's the thing; that the fight is the raison d'etre for AH. As they say "High fidelity air combat is the heart of Aces High".
Everyone, it seems, knows the fight's the thing.
:D
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Originally posted by sax
Thats the final straw Toad , your membership in the TAS is in serious jeporady.
lol
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"You have to scratch, scramble and squabble with your own kill-stealing countrymen to get credit for a vulch of the poor outnumbered and lower bastiges trying to defend their territory against hopeless odds. Some fun. Some ACM. Blah.
And of course, if you happen to be on the receiving end of the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde, you have the pleasure of fighting overwhelming odds in aircraft that are usually much lower and at a much lower E state than the attackers. You may shoot one or two down and then spend three or four minutes continually dodging the five guys chasing you before the six, seventh or eighth one gets you."
Wow .. "DeJa Vue all over again" ... this scenario is becoming the norm and I use to really enjoy the strat part of the game, but it is starting to suffer due to Toads exact observation.
I find myself looking to defend bases from 4 or 5 bogeys and hope that they will stick around to live/fight after the JABO run or come back to fight again.
Have to agree that the CV battles are the best fight in the game at the moment.
<> Rude, Toad, Thunder, and Co. for the CV fights Friday night. Heart pounding, adrenalin pumpin' fights. Was disappointed that I had to leave for TOD. :(
CrowMAW stuck around tho ... :D
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Ever see the LW guncam taken about 50 yards aft of a B17 that was obviously not firing back? It was plain to see at least two different types of munitions impacting the heavy. Bright flashes and large puffs of smoke where heavy rounds were tearing off chunks of the plane. Little flashes and smaller pieces falling away where the MG rounds were impacting.
Tracers showed the trajectory of the projectiles as the pilot slewed his attacking plane left to right, then aft to front on the crippled Boeing. Starting at the tail gunners position, moving up to and through the ball turret then over to the left wheel protruding from the nacelle then into the No. 2 engine starting a small fire. Then the film stops.
In AH at least two of the three B17s would have exploded under half the bullit weight in less than half the time...oh, say about 4 seconds max. Its all about gameplay and the typical AW dweeblet enjoying his 10 minutes online :)
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Bufo Marinus!
If that was the generic "you", you (specifically) need to work on your writing style.
Fair enough - I was in a hurry. I had to go to view a house I hope to buy in Ruscombe village - former home of William Penn, the bloke who founded Pennsylvania. (Maybe if I dig the garden, I'll find a gun buried under there - LOL.) Anyway, Bufo - thanks for replying at such length. :) Jets and rockets are for kids. You don't see ME (specifically) clamoring for any of those.
hehe - busman's holiday! ;) After reading an awful lot about WW2 aviation, I just haven't found the big, long list of tank commanders that became aces by shooting down enemy aircraft with their .30 caliber ring mount pintle guns.
Oh, right! Does this mean that Mr. Toad is back in Realism Mode? :eek: Do please tell me which books you have read which gave accounts of buff pilots being shot down, only to rise as a Phoenix from the ashes, thence to fly again on a repeat of his earlier failed mission! I think the defence budget would get a bit out of control! And $6,000,000 Man did not exist in 1945 - lol. "She's breaking up, she's breaking up!".> Think of all the hospitals that would have been needed to piece all those pilots together again. Selective realism, eh Bufo? :D But theres' absolutely no question that the fight's the thing; that the fight is the raison d'etre for AH. As they say "High fidelity air combat is the heart of Aces High".
Everyone, it seems, knows the fight's the thing.
:confused: Kind of makes me wonder why HTC is going to so much trouble to develop AH2/Missions Concept. Also makes me wonder about the recent account cancellations, many of which cited unstructured gameplay/gangbang/steamroller as the reason for the cancellation.
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Originally posted by beet1e
There have been many suggestions of late to tweak this, harden that, perk the other... -all suggestions designed to favour one particular style of AH gameplay - usually that of the author of the thread in which the suggestion was posted. :rolleyes:
Well I have some views of my own! I find that suicide runs to the CV can be quite exasperating. :mad: Don't get me wrong - there's nothing wrong with a side attacking a CV which threatens one of their bases. The real rub is the suicidal, one-way-ticket nature of these attempts.
I have always loved carrier ops, so last night went to the defence of the Bish CV that had dropped anchor perilously close to an enemy base! :eek: If I hadn't had my hands full, I'd have moved it myself. There were about three of us in planes, defending against wave after wave after wave of suicide B17/ju88/LANC formations. We killed them all - most of the CV guns were manned. So then there was a respite before the onslught resumed, and it came down to the usual AH1 scenario - the numerical supremacy smashdown. :( No real skills involved, just numbers.
The real issue is the re-uppage factor. Some guys made 3,4 or maybe more attempts. With gameplay like that, the outcome is inevitable.
I filmed the whole thing, and you can view my film. My question is: Should this gaminess be addressed in AH1, or do we wait for AH2? What other changes would you suggest? I make none here.
Click here to get the film. (http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/suicidingthecv.zip)
Would you stop complaining and follow the advice of your CO and your own post in which you said, and I paraphrase, program away this or do that and also blah blah blah.
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Kind of makes me wonder why HTC is going to so much trouble to develop AH2/Missions Concept. Also makes me wonder about the recent account cancellations, many of which cited unstructured gameplay/gangbang/steamroller as the reason for the cancellation.
That's BS.....what cancellations and by who?
As to you wondering why HTC is doing anything, should give you a warm and fuzzy feeling as I'm sure most of your life has been spent just wondering.
Nothing personal meant here...just can't stand blatant make believe BS...list those who have left this game for your above stated reasons....I'll go to lunch so as to give you lots of time.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Just increase the cost of subscription back to $29.95 like it was early on. That will get rid of alot of that cheap crap and bring the fun factor back to a worthwhile level.
Hey, Why not raise it more yet... like a hundered Bucks a month. That will do even more to eliminate dweebs.
Ok... maybe not, but my point is, how much money a person can afford doesnt relate to how decent a player they are. Id venture a guess that Rich folks can be the same dweebs/jerks as poorer folks and vice versa.
Changing how much AH Costs will not change the types of players.
I guess I missed your point Yeager
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Good war-making does not equal good game-play. The recent adventure in Iraq is an example of good war-making. i.e. the victors took minimal casualties and rapidly steamrolled the defenders. Good game-play occurs when battles are prolonged, the sides have some parity and the end result is in doubt.
It boggles the mind that some of the "realistic strat" advocates can't grasp this. The end result of more realistic strat is the prevalence more realistic tactics: i.e. massed attacks against lightly defended targets. The “suicide jabo” element in all of this is really inconsequential. EVERY mission type in the MA has a suicide element to it. As long as the game gives free respawns, players will be perfectly happy to repeatedly die on suicidal jabo/vulch/field defense/low level bomber sorties to accomplish their goals.
For good gameplay the “strat” system needs to funnel players into intense small scale fights, where some satisfying small objective (like a field capture) can be rapidly gained. Likewise the system needs to make it impossible to cripple the defense so that these battles do not (as they frequently do in the MA) typically degenerate into huge one-sided gangbangs or endless boring operations against undefended targets.
In this particular case, the problem is not that the CV was sunk but that the strat system ended the fun when this happened. Any number of possible solutions to this problem exist: multiple CVs in a task group, CVs that respawn in the center of the task group (if it isn’t completely destroyed within a set time), instant capture and respawning of a task group once the CV sinks (which potentially moves the CV fight instead of just ending it).
Hooligan
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Funny, a Bish complaining about numbers...:D :cool: :eek: :rolleyes:
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Ill try to get a word in between the Toad/Lazs/Beetle show ;)
Perhaps CVs need some tweaking...
The AAA is very intense, so its pretty much fatel to get inside range of any CV group. So even attempting a Jabo run means very likely death. This lends itself to a mindset, "Im going to die anyways, might as well get in as close as I can before dropping bombs"
Perhaps if the AAA on CVs were less a threat, maybe turned down or less guns were installed a person might be more likely to survive an attack.
Then of course CVs would have to hardened to make up for that and keep gameplay at a reasonable level.
It would be interesting to work with the settings more in the SEA for scenarios and/or SOPs to see what might be a better answer.
Just a thought.
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Hooligan! Excellent post - the best I've read today. :)
Good game-play occurs when battles are prolonged, the sides have some parity and the end result is in doubt.
I agree, and that's why the steamroller ruins the fun. I don't know if you viewed my film. As Toad points out, it probably wasn't any different from 100 other CV battles. The only variation is the numbers, and that factor alone determines the outcome.
Of course, I enjoyed working with AKPanthr and FrankB (and the gunners) in our somewhat vain attempt to save the CV. I don't even mind that we were outnumbered, except that with the same guys re-upping time after time after time, we had no chance. We simply could not be in every place we needed to be to halt the onslaught.
Rude, I'm not going to do what you can so easily do for yourself. The account cancellations may take the form of whines, in whose analysis you are a specialist. Plus we suffered two account cancellations in our squad - for the very reasons I have given. Details on our squad board. Tough if you're denied access.
Rook doing a preflight check prior to bombing the CV
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/newbiesteamroller.jpg)
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*Ahem*
A bish complaining about steam rolling, and numbers...irony at its best! ;)
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Originally posted by Yeager
Ever see the LW guncam taken about 50 yards aft of a B17 that was obviously not firing back? It was plain to see at least two different types of munitions impacting the heavy. Bright flashes and large puffs of smoke where heavy rounds were tearing off chunks of the plane. Little flashes and smaller pieces falling away where the MG rounds were impacting.
Tracers showed the trajectory of the projectiles as the pilot slewed his attacking plane left to right, then aft to front on the crippled Boeing. Starting at the tail gunners position, moving up to and through the ball turret then over to the left wheel protruding from the nacelle then into the No. 2 engine starting a small fire. Then the film stops.
In AH at least two of the three B17s would have exploded under half the bullit weight in less than half the time...oh, say about 4 seconds max. Its all about gameplay and the typical AW dweeblet enjoying his 10 minutes online :)
What you wanted to say was that buff gunners in AH are too difficult to kill, correct?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
*Ahem*
A bish complaining about steam rolling, and numbers...irony at its best! ;)
Rip! Yeah, the Bish are bad at that... and that's why I never join those onslaughts organised by the Mission Editor.
An old friend says Hi to Ripsnort
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/lem2.jpg)
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LOL! How's lem these days? He still got the smell on his breath of Adidas soles? ;) :p
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this is why i spend most of my time in the ct now, much better fights
as far as cv killin is concerned, it is easy to do without being suicidal if you have some patience. get a stuka with the big bomb, climb to 15k because cv defenders usually arent that high. position yourself behind the carrier and dive towards it. as soon as you see the ack start to shoot at you ease your sight about 3 ship lengths ahead of the boat and release. this is a sure fire way of doing without suiciding, works every time for me, and only takes 2 runs. oh no, ive said too much. i will probably get flamed for posting.
you kids play nice
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Originally posted by Grimm
Perhaps if the AAA on CVs were less a threat, maybe turned down or less guns were installed a person might be more likely to survive an attack.
I think that the guns on the CVBG should be increased to the historical numbers carried on the ships, and they should all be made player-controllable.
However, the guns would be grouped into batteries, and the player is the gun director for the battery. They have a gunsight similar to the existing AAA sight, and designate a target; the guns fire with an accuracy that increases with the amount of time that the gun director has been tracking the same target and decreases the more the target maneuvers. If a battery is not manned, or the gun director is destroyed, the battery will fire automatically, but at a significantly reduced accuracy (add a random number to the aiming angles).
This lets a dedicated group take over a CVBG's AAA capacity and direct it, while reducing its immediate lethality enough to make attacks less suicidal.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Oh, right! Does this mean that Mr. Toad is back in Realism Mode?
It isn't a question of realism. It's a question of modeling.
Those of you who have flown the Early War birds that are equipped ONLY with .30 rifle caliber machine guns intuitively understand that the pintle gun modeling is incorrect.
If you get behind a slow F4U in your Hurri I and begin to paste him with 8 .30 rifle caliber mg's from 250 yards, you'll still use a huge amount of ammo from 8 guns before his wing or tail falls off.
Yet that same F4U can roll in on a tank and the single .30 rifle caliber pintle gun will take his tail off with a a short burst.
Certainly not selective realism. Not realism per se at all... it's modeling. There's no way a .30 pintle gun should be more deadly to aircraft at longer ranges than 8 .30 rifle caliber mg's are at shorter ranges.
Yes, I'm available to test/film in the DA for anyone that cares to examine the issue further.
However, I think it's intuitively obvious to those that have flown the Early Birds.
Your comparison to death/re-upping is simply too bogus to even bother with. And you knew that when you wrote it.
Please do try to be at least a bit serious, OK?
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Originally posted by Yeager
Its all about gameplay and the typical AW dweeblet enjoying his 10 minutes online :)
Another ex-AW cheap shot...You one classless MFer Yeager...
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dieing should in my opinion be more detrimental to the player than a slightly lower score.
You need some sort of restriction or penalty imposed for excessive wasting of resources :)
again this wont or cant be done until we have the AH2 setup where it looks as though we will be much more accountable for our actions.Keep crashing planes and they start to let you fly old versions only :)
Now this would be a terrible thing in an MA enviroment but in AH2 it seems you will be flying in groups with set goals meaning a suicidal hits of a target doesnt do you any good because you have to start all over again.Do well , SURVIVE and you gain rank and access to better planes/weapons etc.
until AH2 there isnt going to be any changes to AH as far as i know. It would be great to try some new stuff like a different perk system or some sort of penalty for suiciders but it just aint gonna happen is it? why moan about them when you know they wont stop unless they are forced to by the game.
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very entertaining thread thank you.
Like I said before Laz and Rude need to host a H2H server. Build a small map with close fields, choose only the early war planes they like and have at it. Nothing but furballing. You two will NEVER be happy in the MA, face it.
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Funny thing is, Rude and Laz are happy in the MA. They just do what they like to do and ignore the generalissimos.
As do I.
;)
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
It isn't a question of realism. It's a question of modeling.
Those of you who have flown the Early War birds that are equipped ONLY with .30 rifle caliber machine guns intuitively understand that the pintle gun modeling is incorrect.
If you get behind a slow F4U in your Hurri I and begin to paste him with 8 .30 rifle caliber mg's from 250 yards, you'll still use a huge amount of ammo from 8 guns before his wing or tail falls off.
Yet that same F4U can roll in on a tank and the single .30 rifle caliber pintle gun will take his tail off with a a short burst.
Certainly not selective realism. Not realism per se at all... it's modeling. There's no way a .30 pintle gun should be more deadly to aircraft at longer ranges than 8 .30 rifle caliber mg's are at shorter ranges.
Yes, I'm available to test/film in the DA for anyone that cares to examine the issue further.
However, I think it's intuitively obvious to those that have flown the Early Birds.
Your comparison to death/re-upping is simply too bogus to even bother with. And you knew that when you wrote it.
Please do try to be at least a bit serious, OK?
Awwwwww... I've upset you. :( No need to get willied.
The first question that springs to mind is why on earth would you, of all people, WANT to shoot a PNZR's pintle gun? In your exclusive air to air combat missions of little importance, you should be focussing on other planes, and not sullying your hands by bothering with mere PNZRs. :eek: After all, those PNZRs are only good for attacking other GVs, or buildings, thereby facilitating field capture. You have no interest in GVs. You have no interest in buildings. And you have no interest in field capture. So why all the flap about pintle guns, which has reached such proportions that you've started a thread about it in the Gameplay forum? I realise that the guys who whine the most about modelling/gameplay and STRAT are those guys who - erm... - have no interest in strat :confused: but don't you think this recent obsession about pintle guns is taking it a bit far? Don't worry about PNZRs and pintles. They're not the boogeymen you fear. Their only purpose is to kill strat targets and other GVs. So best you leave 'em alone, eh? ;)
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Right before I stopped playing in GVs at all, I had a revelation. I stopped trying to shoot strafing planes with the pintle gun, and started trying to shoot em with the MAIN gun. Worked pretty well too :D. I think that may be the source of some of these "a 7.92 took my tail off with 1 hit" claims... the Co-ax is a 7.92 too, and I use that to range the main gun shell on strafing airplanes. I bet I'm not the only one that does it either.
A plane with Hizookas will disable a Panzer IVs turret before the pintle gun can do any damage to the plane.
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Beet1e I really don't think we're that far apart. You had a taste of the "steamroller" that is rolling most nights primetime USA.
The steamroller pretty much dominates the arena. It takes away from the "classic" strat guy such as your self along with the "fight" guys such as myself and the others in this post.
I would submit that the steamroller hurts the classic strat guy more then us fighters. We're a minority in the grand scheme of things. We find alittle corner and do our thing. What get's the feathers ruffled is EVEN if we find the "little" corner where the fight is happening the hero's find the spot, ruin the fight..
Found the "fight" tonight. Great times, four up from the squad, off the coast of an enemy base taking on all comers until fuel and ammo became a concern. to those that came out for the fight.
Good fight, the best in awhile. Off and away in those little corners we sometimes find..
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Another ex-AW cheap shot...You one classless MFer Yeager...
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Whatever.....game was hell of a lot more enjoyable before AW died. Anyone who flew the game before the mass-dorks invaded will speak up on this. I knew the moment I heard that AW was going tits up that AH was gonna get flooded by the cheap skates and turn into the kiddy playland it is today. Ooooh lets play KING OF THE HILL!..... Take that however you want.
What you wanted to say was that buff gunners in AH are too difficult to kill, correct?
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Not really. I wanted to say that B17s in the game blow up way too easily. Didnt quite make that point. Sorry.
Hey, Why not raise it more yet... like a hundered Bucks a month. That will do even more to eliminate dweebs.
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Those are your words. Not mine. All I would say is that the game was far better, and far more enjoyable for me when everyone who played the game cared to pay $29.95 I would go back to that structure in a heartbeat if it even remotely brought back that game. Thats just dreaming though, the damage has already been done in my perspective. I still play and enjoy the game but only in a minor way compared to the way it used to be.
FWIW, Ive meant some really good people that came over from AW. I only speak of the larger trend that happened with the massive influx of new players in such a short period of time and how that changed the game in a really negative way.
Again, take that however you want to. Im just pissing on it.
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Nah, you don't upset me. I'm used to instructing. Some students are just quicker than others and thus more fun to work with. Some are deliberately obtuse and contrary which appears to amuse themselves. You work with what you have, I guess. :p
I'll shoot at a GV if there's nothing else to work on. After all, the fight's the thing. I play to hear the guns shoot. If you don't shoot, this game is pretty boring, IMO. If there's no aircraft to fight, might as well strafe tanks as auger. :D
And again, you're being silly, deliberately I assume. I'm reasonably sure that most of the players want things modeled as accurately as possible. The various top speed threads serve as examples.
The pintle gun's leathality seems way, way off. Not to mention the invincibility of the guy standing in the hatch under a hailstorm of fire. It's not a show stopper for me, but I believe it is there.
Want to spend some of your building battling time in the DA investigating this hypothesis? Let me know.
Urchin... about a month ago I strafed a tank in an IL-2. Got one pass in before he noticed me and lit him up with cannon for about two seconds. I was opening up at about 600 yards. Next pass at about 1K out I heard "pingpingpingpingpingpingpingp ingpingpingping" for about a second and my tail fell off.
Sure didn't hear anything but a brief burst of light hits on a previously undamaged IL2. Of course, those are pretty light duty unarmored aircraft.
As I said, I'm willing to use some play time to research this. Let's see if I'm wrong.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Awwwwww... I've upset you. :( No need to get willied.
The first question that springs to mind is why on earth would you, of all people, WANT to shoot a PNZR's pintle gun? In your exclusive air to air combat missions of little importance, you should be focussing on other planes, and not sullying your hands by bothering with mere PNZRs. :eek: After all, those PNZRs are only good for attacking other GVs, or buildings, thereby facilitating field capture. You have no interest in GVs. You have no interest in buildings. And you have no interest in field capture.
Actually the 13th Tas did and still do participate in field captures , we just don't do it by steamrolling or porking fuel.
It's not we don't know how it's just not as fun or challenging as it used to be.
Toad is just pointing out the differences between then and now. The latest updates and releases haven't necessarily made AH better.
All you really need to see here is that the # of strat comments on the BBS has increased. Must be an indicator of some sorts that some changes might help.
Don't matter in the long run anyways if HT dosen't think it's broken:)
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Beetle, this was mentioned before too. I think one of the solutions given was adding an assault group for each task group. This would be made up of cruisers and destroyers that would come close to shore and free the CV to stay well off shore. I think having to bring the CV close enough to launch ltv's is what dooms it.
I hate to lose a CV, it's the one field they can't pork the fuel at;)
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Originally posted by nopoop
Beet1e I really don't think we're that far apart. You had a taste of the "steamroller" that is rolling most nights primetime USA.
Of course we're not far apart! I've just been exchanging views with Urchin the MA numbers reducing (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87076) thread, and despite the fact that I'm a "building battler", it is clear that the steamroller problem affects us both.
Some people hold the belief that jabo pilots are only building battlers. They don't realise that there are a lot of fights to be had in the course of capturing or defending a field. Even I got 340 kills in fighters in Tour 39. I clearly remember one sortie in which I had to drop ord from my F6F to go and save a squaddie in trouble. With that done I continued to the target field to provide CAP and keep the cons off other inbound jabo. I got 12 kills in that sortie, and was RTB when some bastige I had killed once or twice decided to make it a grudge match by upping a steamroller to chase me down on my way home. In this case it was a 190D9 steamroller. On other, similar occasions, a guy who has lost a fair fight with me will re-up in a different plane to chase me down. Can you guess which one? Of course you can. The LA7, what else...
Mr. Toad! Nah, you don't upset me. I'm used to instructing. Some students are just quicker than others and thus more fun to work with. Some are deliberately obtuse and contrary which appears to amuse themselves. You work with what you have, I guess.
I'm not your student.
But in your quest for selective realism, we have a problem with the PNZR pintle gun. So be it. Some issues in AH are realism issues, some are modelling issues as you have already pointed out, but then there are gaming issues. If the pintle were to be changed, what do you think might happen? The pintle gunners would get vulched every time. Don't worry about the pintle. It's only use is to pop at fighter pilots who have been stupid enough to try to strafe it. The maximum angle of the pintle means that it cannot be brought to bear upon a plane directly overhead trying to bomb it. The other pintle use is to kill troops on the run as they try to get to the map room, but you wouldn't want to know about any of that. I'm reasonably sure that most of the players want things modeled as accurately as possible.
ROFL! Oh yeah? So why all the conga lines? Why the steamrollers? Why the suicide runs to the CV? Why all the suicide fuel porkers? Why are the planes I kill most continue to include Spit ix, P51D, LA7 and N1K tour after tour? Why do so many players want it to be 1945 every day? Oh... I was forgetting. These aren't modelling issues, they're realism/gameplay issues. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. This selective realism™ gets confusing.
SAX - in the paragraph you quoted, I was using the word "you" to mean Toad himself!
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Originally posted by Toad
LOL!
If it isn't just the "summer hiatus", which I think is the true cause because it's a "historical" phenomenom, the TRUE REASON for any "wave of account cancellations" is because of the near total LACK OF GOOD FIGHTS.
Face it. Being in the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde isn't much fun. You have to scratch, scramble and squabble with your own kill-stealing countrymen to get credit for a vulch of the poor outnumbered and lower bastiges trying to defend their territory against hopeless odds. Some fun. Some ACM. Blah.
And of course, if you happen to be on the receiving end of the Massively Multi-plane Attacking Horde, you have the pleasure of fighting overwhelming odds in aircraft that are usually much lower and at a much lower E state than the attackers. You may shoot one or two down and then spend three or four minutes continually dodging the five guys chasing you before the six, seventh or eighth one gets you.
Face it; the days where you could find a few v few fight are gone now. Unless you stumble into a good CV setup which will only last until the heroes of strategery sink the boat.
And if there's ANY reason accounts are being cancelled other than summer, it's the "steamroller strat" aspect that dominates AH.
IMO.
Truer words were never spoken. I feel exactly the same way.
PS... If I was to call someone a putz, which I rarely do, it'd have to be Yeager. Sheesh... more moronic words were never spoken.
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Originally posted by beet1e
SAX - in the paragraph you quoted, I was using the word "you" to mean Toad himself!
I know what ya meant , I am just trying to improve your frame rates so's the blackout won't be so bad in your constant loop.
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The only was to reduce the steamroller is to take away the incentive, take away reset perks, hardening targets will only make the suicide gang larger. But, when there's no good reason to die for a reset, folks will stop trying to die for a reset.. end of the steamroller.
Q: But Booz! what will we do?!? what would our purpose be then if not to reset a map?
A: Learn to fly, the map will rotate when it rotates.
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There's no quest for "selective realism" in a desire for correct modeling of a gun. And I think just about all of us want the guns, FM's, and hardware in the game as accurately modeled as possible.
So it is with tanks. There was a period in the modeling where aircraft guns were far more damaging to tanks than they should have been. This was fixed, after a long period of "consciousness raising" by some dedicated folks.
Now, tank guns are far more damaging to aircraft than they should be. It'll get fixed but I'm not interested enough to make a crusade out of it. I mentioned it in another forum and let it go. Until you brought it up here. But the damage from the tank pintle gun is incorrect, IMO. As I said, I'll test if anyone is that interested. I've made my statement though and that's really enough for me.
However, I understand your need to twist the discussion to change the frame of reference. It's pretty much your standard tactic.
The gaming issues are your main concern apparently because the entire "strat" issue falls squarely under "gameplay".
It's an area that concerns me little if at all. I'm just looking for a fight; "winning" a war means nothing to me. Because the war never ends, does it? It just starts over.
If anyone is promoting selective realism, it's you. All the things you mention in the last of that post are merely Beet1e once again trying to get other people to play the way HE thinks they should play... they have nothing to do with the realism of the hardware, they deal with the "realism" of the gameplay.
Conga lines? Player choice of tactics.
Steamrollers? Player choice of tactics.
Suicide runs to the CV? Player choice of tactics.
Suicide fuel porkers? Player choice of tactics.
Planes I kill most Spit ix, P51D, LA7 and N1K tour after tour? Player choice of planes.
Now, just to put it in a frame of reference you may understand, I think the vast majority of players would complain and campaign against a P-40 that could climb at 5000 FPM, do 500 IAS in level flight at 10,000 feet and outturn a zero. See, that would be a realism issue.
But flying a Spit IX?
That's a player choice made about a personal preference gameplay issue.
I think only a Generalissimo Playmyway would make a big deal about what another player chooses to fly. And thankfully, we dont' have all that many of those.
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Kind of reminded me of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, just sub the Yamato for that cv.
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well.. I see that beetle and hazed and revin are all against suicide bombing but... they have no solution. they say they have views but don't state em.. they hint at em... it appears that they want "penalties' for dying.. more do nothingism. but...
when I suggest something that would work... like perking all bombs over say 100 lbs or 250.... they get upset. Perhaps they want the AH2 system of rank where if we die we wont get to be "general" with all the repect that doing so earns from all our fellow players and girlfriends. All I can see is that it will reward timid behavior... steamrollers are nothing but timid behavior.
I say perk the bombs... drop the perks for a reset... what do the limeys say?
lazs
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PS... If I was to call someone a putz, which I rarely do, it'd have to be Yeager. Sheesh... more moronic words were never spoken.
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Two more unfortunate consequences of the mass influx of AW (weekend gamers) into AcesHigh:
The instant community created with the demise of AW has slowly but surely destroyed the original dedicated community.
That same AW community has influenced the game developers to put far more emphasis on making an AW type game as opposed to creating a better more intriguing war simulator.
Call me names if you like, I dont care, but try and put some wortwhile argument into the diatribe. Make it more enjoyable for me.
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Actually, Lazs, I did make a suggestion (well two actually) just over a year ago. I suggested that the Mission Editor and bardar should be turned off. The expression "steamroller" had not entered the AH BBS vernacular at that time, but if you would reread my thread, you'll see that what I was campaigning against was the insurgence of the Steamroller. Needless to say, Mr. Toad did not think much of my anti-steamroller suggestion, and plonked both feet in the Steamroller camp.
Now Nopoop has got me thinking. When I read Nopoop's post above, I realised that a problem common to both the fite guys and the jabo/building battler/capture guys is the Steamroller. The fite guys complain when their fuel gets porked, and the jabo guys are sitting ducks when carrying bombs. I think the P47D30 climbs at about 1400'/min with full armament, 50% fuel. For the jabo, the cherrypicking steamroller is the bane of our lives. Ah, but one cherrypicker hardly constitutes a steamroller, I hear you say. Of course it does, just as you perceive the lone F6F suicide fuel porker as a steamroller.
So what got all the steamrollering started in the first place? Well, we're always going to have guys who just like to watch things blow up, and have no conscience about vulching/gangbanging etc. What's missing in AH is the stealth mission concept. It simply does not exist. Attack any field, and audible and visual warnings will be given. Base under attack!, trills Yankee. The map begins to flash, and of course bardar has already given the game away to anyone who's in the tower. What's the answer? Well, with no changes to the game, the only way to make that capture becomes that of smashing the field down by force, and sheer numerical supremacy. Please join Mission! Need Tiffies, 110s, P38s, Goons... says the text buffer. And that's pretty much the only way to do it.
And behold, the birth of the Steamroller.
Why do the jabo and fite guys have to be at odds? Jabo can't get in to flatten the town or VH without fiter support, and the threat of capture makes the enemy want to fight, so the fite guys have their work cut out. Sounds like symbiosis to me...
...so why don't we stop arguing about whose way is right, and focus on our mutual enemy, The Steamroller, which can take many different forms. We know what they all look like. ;)
Anti-Steamroller thread from last year (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52208)
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I agree with toad... to turn off the dar makes it even worse.
The steamroller is nothing more than a bunch of newbies afraid of a fite and the addition of the "missun" planner.. the people who cant fly well still want to participate... they do it by joining the overwhelming numbers... so long as there is a missun planner and some reason to steamroller then it will happen. A surprise attack does not interest me in the least... from either end of the "surprise".
the problem with the radar is that the fields are so far apart on some maps that if you head toward what looks like a good fite.... by the time you get there... it is anything but.
lazs
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No, don't turn off the radar. Keep that. (But I would do away with the idiotic way in which it sometimes shows friends but not enemies.) It's the bardar I was talking about. The individual fields would still have radar, but you'd be able to come in under it. Folks say that bardar does not work for planes below 500' but I'm not so sure. In any case the flashing map and verbal warning give the game away long before an attacker arrives.
As for finding fights, they're always going to be on the frontier. I've always found that if attempting a capture, the fight finds me.
You can't perk the bombs. How would anyone be able to earn perk points to be able to bomb, if they were disallowed to begin with?
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Here's the basic conceptual difference that you just dont' seem to grasp:
Guys like myself (and Laz and Nopoop, I think) don't give a fig what YOU do in the game. I just come for the action, the ACM, the shooting... the fight's the thing. All I want is an opportunity to fight.
This bears repeating: I don't care what YOU do in the game.
Now, it seems to me that you spend an inordinate amount of time trying to devise gameplay ideas that would make people fly YOUR way. In short, you DO care what other folks do in the game. You want some sort of "organization", etc., etc., etc.
There's the difference in a nutshell. I don't care what other folks are doing. I don't care about "winning the war". I don't care about base capture. I just want A2A engagements.
You, OTOH, appear to care mightily about those "strategic gameplay issues".
Now... it boils down to minding you own business, really.
I hope AH2, with the "mission" thing, satisfies your need for "organization". I hope you and all the others like you love it so bloody much that you live in the mission arena.
Think of this: If HT thought the "organization", "strategy", "winning the war", "base capture" ideas were so important that EVERYONE must play that way, the MA WOULD NOT be the way it is right now.
Right now, everyone is free to choose the thing they like to do most. There is no formal structure.
HTC is making a formally structured arena just for guys like you.
So, why don't you give it a rest and see how that turns out for you? If I understand the concept correctly, the mission arena will force people to play the way you think they should play.
So, rejoice that your day of deliverance from unwashed folks like myself is at hand.
;)
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Bufo Marinus!!!! I take it all the above was directed at me. :D
You'll never guess what I did tonight. I was in Tank Town in a PNZR. I got bombed by a P47, but then I re-upped, and guess what? I shot him down - with my pintle!!! :eek: Oh nooooo.... not the pintle!... :D (But that's OK - you did say you don't care what I do in the game! ger> Just imagine Lawrence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman in "Marathon Man". Instead of asking "Is it safe?", he could ask "The turret, or the pintle?". I'm sure Dustin would prefer the turret! ;) Even easier than choosing between a dental pick and oil of cloves - LOL.
I'll have you know I haven't dropped one all night - bomb, that is. I was tearing things up with my CHOG instead. All in a good cause - field defence. :) I didn't die a single death all session, but got plenty of kills. But guess what? There was a very well planned attack by a 110 squad. In one pass, they bombed all three of our fiter hangars! :eek: :mad: The temerity of it! Suddenly, our choices were limited! Unthinkable! In the morning, I'll be sure to compose a letter to HTC, requesting that such outrageous liberties be programmed out of the game. :D
And now, it is late, and Mother is coming in the morning in her new car. Hehe, it's a VW - I recommended it to her.
I shall be tied up for the next few days, so I'll say au revoir, and see you next match!
Toodle-Pip!
:D
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See, you are learning.
In the morning, I'll be sure to compose a letter to HTC, requesting that such outrageous liberties be programmed out of the game.
A perfect illustration of the difference between you and I.
I wouldn't care what they did; if all the FH's went down, I'd just move to another base.
You are moved to take pen in hand and attempt to convince HTC to make them play your way.
Enjoy the mission arena, Generalissimo.
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
I wouldn't care what they did; if all the FH's went down, I'd just move to another base.
Indeed! I agree entirely. The simple solutions are often the best. :D Makes you wonder why such a fuss has been made about the suicide fuel porker. :confused:
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The suicide porker cheapens the whole experience.
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Originally posted by Yeager
The suicide porker cheapens the whole experience.
Indeed, Yeager. Hence my original post in this very thread.
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A subtle difference.
Killing all the FH's at a particular field has the same effect on the entire planeset available to all players.
Porking the fuel down to 25% at a particular field has an unequal effect on various planes in the planeset that are available to all players. IE: 25% fuel in a P-51 is still enough to takeoff, climb, travel a bit, engage and RTB. 25% fuel in an FM-2 is not enough to do that.
So, the difference between killing FH's and porking fuel is that it has an unequal effect on a player's plane choice.
Early war players are penalized more than late war players in the case of the fuel. All are penalized the same in the case of killing all the FH's.
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True enough, Mr. Toad. But the glass is half full! OK, the FM2 may have to do what you and I would do, and move to a different base. But he has the added option of transferring to a P51 himself, or of taking comfort in the knowledge that at least the P51s can get up at the original base, and help to keep it from being overrun. Why would said FM2 pilot object to the fact that his own P51 comrades can get airborne even if he can't? I know I wouldn't.
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Again Beet1e, it's choice. Why should one type (Early War, for example) player be penalized more than another type player?
Would you be just as sanguine if when one FH went down, all 1943 introduction planes and later were suddenly removed from the selection list?
If when two hangars were down, nothing introduced after 1942 was available?
The planeset should be equally available and equally useable by all the players.
Then there's the whole point about balance in hitting fuel and resupplying fuel. One player can do in 5 mintues what it takes 7 players 10-15 minutes to repair.
But we've tilled that ground enough, I think.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Just increase the cost of subscription back to $29.95 like it was early on. That will get rid of alot of that cheap crap and bring the fun factor back to a worthwhile level.
Yes good idea . Then we can go back to a higher class of dweeb........NOT
:D
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Originally posted by Toad
Again Beet1e, it's choice. Why should one type (Early War, for example) player be penalized more than another type player?
All planes should be equal. But we have to accept that some planes will always be more equal than others! I feel the pain of Mr. FM2. My CHOG doesn't go far on 25% either. But I usually find that if the fuel has been porked to 25%, we've got the enemy all over us like a cheap suit, so we don't need to go far, and we want the manoeuvrability to be enjoyed when carrying a light fuel load anyway. A 190A5 with 25% fuel is a good choice in that situation.
As to inequalities in AH, I feel that fuel porkage is the tip of the gameplay iceberg, what with it being 1945 every day in there. Every day, I fly planes like the P47 and F4U - not the fastest, and certainly not the best climbers, and have to contend with LA7/190D9/P51 cherrypickers. The inequalities precipitated by the fuel porkage issue seem small beer by comparison.
My original point had been that some suicide fuel porkees had complained that the SF Porkor were "ruining their game". As we agree, this is a nonsense because the option is there to go back to another base. They're not going to get enough alt at the porked base anyway, and are likely to be vulched. If we're now saying that the solution is to treat all planes equally, and maybe allow the fuel to be porked back to ZERO % so that no-one can take off at all, would that placate the SFPorkee whiners? If the answer is YES, then it follows that their real gripe is that they have a beef about their own comrades being able to fly long distance when they can't.
I can see that Mr. FM2 (and we all know who he is ;)) perceives the current situation as "unfair", but I do not accept that it is "ruining the game", as some people claim.
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Once again, you twist the frame of reference. :D
There's no mention of equality of planes. The reference is to planeset equality and player choice equality.
Refer back to the Trinity thread and refresh your memory. Even the mapmaker of Trinity didn't agree with you.
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Silat
could just as easily imagine the price coming down to 9.95
Imagine then that AH was provided free to anyone with a internet connect.
What would you imagine each of the above scenarios impact would be on the game you enjoy today?
I enjoyed the game alot more when the community was alot smaller. AKA 29.95
Thats all Im saying.
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Originally posted by Toad
Refer back to the Trinity thread and refresh your memory. Even the mapmaker of Trinity didn't agree with you.
Oh I know. And I don't disagree. Remember, I like to do a bit of everything - including those goon/M3 resupply missions. Damned frustrating to do those and not make an impact.
But against the whole backdrop of concerns about AH1, I still maintain that the fuel porkage issue is small beer, and I'm one of the ones most affected by it! BTW I used to fly the P51D, but I prefer more of a challenge than what it has to offer.
And I agree with Yeager - the suiciding can spoil things, although the fuel porker/FH porker is usually a one time deal. It's the "Repeated Uppage Suicide Porker/RUSP" (subject of my initial post) that spoils it for me in the end. Fuel Porker I can handle. But hey - fix Trinity, and I'll drive M3 supply sorties. :D
BTW, Mr. Toad. I was in St. Paul's Cathedral today - went in the American servicemen's chapel. I believe you posted some pics from there a while back.
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Originally posted by Yeager
I enjoyed the game alot more when the community was alot smaller. AKA 29.95
Thats all Im saying.
OK, Now I get your point Yeager :)
Unfortunatley there isnt really any going back. If the community starts to shrink alot, its not a good sign relating to the health of AH.
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Fuel at 25% would be "small beer" unless:
1. You primarily desire to fly Early War rides
AND
2. The arena map is the current Trinity, with Airfields spread pretty far apart.
Then, 25% is a full pint or perhaps even a case. (It can be a problem on Pizza to, but to a lesser degree.)
I'm optimistic, however, that NB's revision of Trinity adding ~16 new AIRfields/CV's and converting 25-30 V-fields into AIRfields will pretty much solve this problem.
Given those changes, it's all going to work out. High AIRfield density will solve a lot of the problem.
I think. ;)
Yes, I enjoy Saint Paul's. Even the long climb up to the dome. The American Chapel is a moving experience for me. From both perspectives.
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Originally posted by Toad
Yes, I enjoy Saint Paul's. Even the long climb up to the dome. The American Chapel is a moving experience for me. From both perspectives.
Yes I went up into the top of the dome, and the Golden Gallery - all 580 steps. Second time for me. There's an ante room at the top with a perspex panel in the metal floor, looking down on to the cathedral floor 280' below. However, the cathedral is being refurbished in preparation for its 300th anniversary celebrations, and there is scaffolding up in the dome, suspended in part by ropes passing through that perspex window up to the very top of the dome.
(http://www.alanadsl.legend.yorks.com/paul.jpg)
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I rest my case... do we really want a whole arena full of these guys?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Using Lancs for Dive bombers.
Sorry bro, but that's up there on my top ten list of things not to do.
It's so gamey.
I sink CV's level bombing in B-26 flights from 5-10K, and fly home.
Why die AND be gamey when you don't have to?
Please don't dive bomb in Heavy's. You give the rest of the bomber pilots a bad name by doing so.
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Torpedo Squadron Eight.
The guy has a point.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I rest my case... do we really want a whole arena full of these guys?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
For once, I agree with Lazs.
Sure it's game. For some, it's more of a hobby.
Baseball is just a game too, but some folks take it seriously. Who do you repect more? A guy who batted .300 and bunted his way on base 50% of the time or the guy who batted .300 by solid hitting, extra base hits, and smart gameplay? The both got on base, but they are by no means equal.
This by no means a WWII simulation.
But what you're doing is so gamey, even HT was working on a way of disabling the ability of Heavy Bombers to dive bomb.
You can do whatever you want. It's your $15.00.
I should no better than to expect more from a Sox fan. :D
J/K
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The best games of the year are when the Yankees come to town, or vice versa.
There's no team I enjoy watching the Yankees beat more, and no team to whom it is more painful to lose to!
What a classic Rivalry.
I've always wanted to get up to Fenway.
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I've always wanted to get up to Fenway.
Even old Beet1e has been to Fenway - 1993. Saw the Red Sox win against the MN Twins. A good game. Mo Vaughn was on form - what a hitter! Afterwards had dinner at the Union Oyster House - oldest restaurant in the US. Had a 2lb lobster - 1¾lb of that was shell - lol.
Have also been to Shea, Wrigley Fld, Oakland Coliseum (still got the hat) Coors Field, and the new one in SF - is it still called Candlestick Park?
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Originally posted by TW9
the sf one is pac bell park
Rgr that. I've been there in May 2001 - Giants lost. Not been to Candlestick Pk.
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ah... building battlers and baseball fans... it makes sense now.. If this were a home improvement BBS then they would be talking up the joys of watching paint dry.
lazs
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a suicide jabo plane can kill the cv pretty much with impunity. The lancs and 17's only kill cvs that arent being used typicaly.
lazs