Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Blank on May 21, 2003, 07:43:20 PM
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basically just spent the last few hours trying to shoot people down in that most UBER of planes the c.202.
except no one wanted to play, everyone kept running away! (5 different people, when it was just me and them in relative isolation)
did it smell? is it not worth shooting down cos you wouldn't get any perks?
had one good fight, though he was a very careful, timid fighter with a F4u over 229, (which i dont mind),
but only got properly engaged when it was 2v1, (the f4u was joined by a 110) thats not bad odds, but in a plane like a 202, you aint gonna last long as the fire power isn't there for the snapshot, and you cant run away.
sucky sucky sucky no honour, gangbanging enemy (especially against a poor 202) :(
what made me laugh was the 110 stole the kill just as i was about to hit the floor (i had no elevator or stab, and was kinda flying, floating down) hope they had an arguement.
suppose i should just fly an la-7 or pony and chase em down, but whats the fun in that?
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My suggestions for a more 202/205 frdly environment:
In my opinion...
LA-7: 4 points
TYPHOON: 3 points
YAK9-U: 3 points
P-51D: 3 points
190D-9: 3 points
F4U-1D: 3 points
109G-10: 3 points
P-38L: 3 points
N1K2-J: 3 points
P-47D-30: 3 points
Perking these 10 planes would shift the MA into a mid/late 1943 environment.
The F4U-1, P-51B, La-5FN, and the P-47D11 will be the four fastest fighters at low alts at military power, and F4U-1, P-51B, LA-5, Fw190A-8 would be the four fastest on WEP.
There's a much bigger chance to see people using various fighters, which before, have been ignored by a lot of average pilots for the reason that they weren't fast or maneuverable enough against 1944~'45 planes.
The survivability of the P-47s will be vastly enhanced, and since some of the 'super ground attackers' with 2k payload + rockets, have been perked, it would truly live up to its name as a great and fast ground attacking fighter-bomber.
The ol' N1K2 fans will probably just move on to Spit9s anyway. We'll be seeing a bit less N1K2s, but more Spits.. but no special harm done here.
The P-51D fans would shift to the P-51B.. which has a little less ammo load, and weaker jabo capabilities. We'll definately see less whinings about 'cowardly runstangs' who come in at 20k to do a single bomb drop and run straight home after.
The F4U-1 corsair will also start to shine out, but it will of course, be limited in jabo capabilities, compared to the C-hog and the D-hog.
La-7 fans can comfortably ride the La-5FN, since it shares simular characteristics with the La-7, and is still among the fastest non-perked planes .. but the speed difference between other fighters will be a bit less than the La-7: meaning, it'd require some more careful flying, and also, people won't be whining about La-5FNs much.
Also, some planes which only a few people rode just for kicks, might come into real recognition: such as the Bf109G-2, Bf109G-6, Fw190A-5, Fw190A-8, C.205.. which will be vastly enhanced in survivability and versatility. More variety IMO, can be expected.
Also, some jabo planes which people neglected before, could become very appealing, since the planes that were very fast, and also carried huge bomb loads will be perked. Planes like the Mosquito and the Bf110G-2, Fw190F-8 might be able to get more usage as preferred jabo ride of choice. When the 10 planes are perked, the Mossie and the 110, F-8 can all be considered fast planes...
The 3~4 point perk price would also be adequate. It'd be a super cheap price for the 'experten' who amassed massive perks, and won't bother them from riding their favored rides... and also, it is not a very heavy burden for average/low-skilled pilots, too. Work a bit with other fighters, and they'll achieve 3~10 points easily in a single day. They'll get a chance to ride better planes soon.. and if they are shot down, it's not like losing 200 perks. Just barely enough price to control the numbers in the MA, IMO.
If those 10 fighters are perked, the planes people will use, will be at 310~336mph range at deck speeds, where many many previously neglected planes can be used. The one single problem is the P-38L, which doesn't have an earlier variant..
With my suggested perk setup, I think we can see more variety, less whining, and satisfy the people who want to fly fast monster planes(perks very low for the experts), people who want to fly planes they want without too much of a burden(low perks - not really too much of a burden), and also the people who want some plane numbers regulated(3 perks is not too high, but still needs some work for the vast majority of average/low-skilled players who take up 80% of AH). Also, my suggestion will give some great expert jabo planes(Mossie, 110G-2, Fw190F-8) their role in the MA.. where currently they have no place at all, since almost every USAAF/USN plane can carry loads of rockets+2k load.
ps) also, the survivability of bombers will go up a lot more!
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Responses to prior post, and my responses:
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if you do that without perking the Spit IX, P-51, N1K, I think you'd just encourage the LA-7 drivers into the next best ride; and then we'd have to have the same discussion again about a different plane.
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- This is true, oboe, but let's consider the 'next best planes', in the case of the 'perk list' I've suggested.
The 'next best rides', in this case, are much more 'balanced' with lesser performing planes than when the late-war planes were unperked. As I posted above, the P-51B, F4U-1, La-5FN, P-47D-11 are the fastest non-perked planes at low alts with military power, and the P-51B, F4U-1, La-5FN, Fw190A-8 are the fastest planes with wep. Of the five plane types, only one plane can be considered both 'fast' and 'maneuverable' (La-5FN).
The P-51B is a versatile fighter, but more limited in ammo load, firepower, and jabo capabilities. The F4U-1 is also a great plane, but it definately isn't a like the La-7 or Yak-9U, which has almost every attribute in the top class. P-47D-11, limitations are almost too clear.. and the Fw190A-8.. can also be simular to the P-47D-11.. heavy plane that needs lot of practice and effort to learn. The only plane that vaguely shadows the 'super planes' of 1944~'45, is the La-5FN... but definately easier to handle than the La-7 or the Yak-9U.
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exactly, you'd be putting "noobs" at even more of a disadvantage.
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- To apply a reverse logic, then would you suggest that if noobs have better planes, they'd have a fair chance against experts? Seeing many many statements from the experts in the forums it seems they always claim they can shoot down any noob in any plane whatever they fly.
'Noobs' suck in whatever planes they are in anyway. Besides, people who have a lot of perk points which can be thrown around , aren't really that many. As always, the majority is always 'average' or 'underskilled'.
Basically noobs will die against experts anyway whatever they fly in, and the real majority of their combat is against other noobs or average pilots.
ps) also, one other factor that should be considered, is the initially low perk prices. 3 points.. as an average pilot myself, earning 3 points takes a bit of effort in my case.. have to shoot down about 3~4 planes a sortie to get 3 points quick. Generally, people are sensitive about losing points. 3 points, IMO, is enough to regulate 'hoardes', but not too much demanding like the 70 point Tempy or the 200 point 262.
also, people will feel less attracted to a 3 point plane, when compared to 60~200 point perk planes. Besides, if the perks are applied in current condition, in most cases, the icons won't give away the plane type for the 3 point perked planes.. except maybe in the case of the P-38L(no other P-38 variant) or the La-7(icon specified as 'La7')
More on this idea, can be seen at This Thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87356), in the AH2 Forums.
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202 works best on bnz against people not paying attention (quit often...noone excpects "the macchi)
202 runs nice is amazing to fly the only problem as youve pointed out is its speed (wich is funny cause ive got it up to about 300 in level flight...about about 500 feet...or was it a 205)
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I like that Kweassa.
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202 is slow and bit equip with weapons, but do not forget is an early Figther....
it gives of course big fun in CT or SA arena where u can figth without plane so fast and furious around, like in MA.
202 Must be use in Kette!
and if u got the E ....bit planes can shake it from their tail
and also u outta be a good pilot....meaning u have to take the some seconds to hit serius the enemy beeing Behind Him long time...
I know it's hard but not impossible!!!
SO WTG Kweassa Gents Let's PERKS THE RUNNERS ;) :D
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I had fun with the 202...
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Excellent post kweassa
The 202 has a two fairly important things going for it,
those who know what it is tend to ignore it
those who don't(newbies), often mistake it for a 262 at a distance
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good post and ideas kweassa BUT why do you feel that all the planes in AH must be defined in there "MA" values? i think that htc make the the planes they want to and it is up us in the big picture to use them. there has been a lot of snapshots, special events that the "hanger queens" have been very useful. your correct to think they dont fit to good in the MA but AH isnt allways about the the MA. personaly i would like to do a good balanced snapshot than piss away 2 hours in the MA. but this is just my opinion.
bigsky
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Because, the snapshots and events, which no doubt is the cream of the crop on the potentials what people can do with AH, is still limited - it is largely player organized and driven. A voluntary spirit(and no doubt, very powerful one up to date!), is the only thing which keeps it going.
For various reasons, many people don't have access to regular participations in events and snapshots, Tours of Duty and etc.
The majority of newbie players are inevitably discouraged by the organized concept(while they certainly should not be, still, people can't help feeling that way - it's a natural thing) of events and snapshots, and Asian/Aussie/Kiwi players in the far east can hardly participate - unless they are devoted enough to get up at 3AM in the morning. (There has been attempts for Pacific time zone events, but variety of reasons make it fairly impossible - unlike US/Europe time zones, about 30% of AH population in the Pac time zones are Asians, and they all speak different languages - English is seldom their first language. The numbers are much smaller than US/Europe prime time, too)
Thus, in many cases, for many paying users the single AH content where they can regularly log on and enjoy the game, without complications, is the MA. Besides, seeing a plane which HTC has worked hard to model and implement within the game, used only in a handful of events per month, can be considered a waste of resources.
For such reasons, inevitably, the analysis sets its grounds upon the MA - because, it is the only common factor which AH players share all over the world. :) It is where the largest number of people hang out, and it is the main material which makes AH an MMOG.
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point taken, but ive been thinking about some smaller participation snapshots from what has been avalible before. you know just a simple skirmish over burma or china or any such event other than the the one usualy planed and then far fewer people show up. what i would like for events is if you are a section leader your orders show up as a message of the day type thing. so that they know wat is expected of them. these types of events could run on 30+ players if planed that way. now i dont know about the language difference but i would hope that those players in the game that dont speak good english would lean on those who speak both english and there native language to help out those who dont speak good english. after all texan is very simular to english and i can understand most of what there saying why cant a english speaker?
bigsky
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C202 is usualy flown by poeple who can fly and won't HO with you. Hence, the ones who HO & are less able run away from it.
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On more than one occassion I've been drilled by groups of guys in 202s. It was a humbling experience.
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202 is okay, F4U-1 gets as many perks, has a better view, better speed, better gas milege and punchs nice big holes.... To each his (non-uber) own! :) My best perk point single sortie mission with it to date in 14 kills, 45 perkies.
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Originally posted by gofaster
On more than one occassion I've been drilled by groups of guys in 202s. It was a humbling experience.
Did anyone elses mind go wandering on this description ? :D
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Kweassa, that'd be interesting to see tried. However, I think the Spit IX would possibly approach non-perked CHog usage in that setup. Dunno though...
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Originally posted by Nifty
Kweassa, that'd be interesting to see tried. However, I think the Spit IX would possibly approach non-perked CHog usage in that setup. Dunno though...
Spit IX usage would go up, but then it is a 1941 plane. Last thing I'd want is more mid/late British planes perked though.
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Ya perk the p51D to get some people out of it and the la7
I average more perks per sortie than you would charge for a pony death so I could continue to fly the "D" AND accrue perk points. Wheeeeeeeeeee
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Originally posted by Blank
basically just spent the last few hours trying to shoot people down in that most UBER of planes the c.202.
except no one wanted to play, everyone kept running away! (5 different people, when it was just me and them in relative isolation)
did it smell? is it not worth shooting down cos you wouldn't get any perks?
had one good fight, though he was a very careful, timid fighter with a F4u over 229, (which i dont mind),
but only got properly engaged when it was 2v1, (the f4u was joined by a 110) thats not bad odds, but in a plane like a 202, you aint gonna last long as the fire power isn't there for the snapshot, and you cant run away.
sucky sucky sucky no honour, gangbanging enemy (especially against a poor 202) :(
what made me laugh was the 110 stole the kill just as i was about to hit the floor (i had no elevator or stab, and was kinda flying, floating down) hope they had an arguement.
suppose i should just fly an la-7 or pony and chase em down, but whats the fun in that?
they probebly thought it was me in that 202 :D
i use to fly it alot
its real sweet ride and tend to do much more then expected
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everytime I fly a 202....all i get as a reception is HO's.....
they ho'd me on every damn pass I made......
avoid you say.....gimme a break...ya can't avoid everyone of them.
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202 is not a furball plane, come to the fight area with altitude and pick your fights