Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gofaster on May 22, 2003, 12:43:36 PM
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We don't have a homeless problem. We just have too many cops. :p
Police, dressed as homeless, catch drivers running red lights
Associated Press, May 22, 2003 - 05:21 AM
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KISSIMMEE, Fla.
Homeless advocates are outraged by an operation where undercover police officers dressed as vagrants, observed drivers running red lights or committing other traffic violations, then radioed ahead to other officers who stopped those cars and wrote tickets.
"Operation Vagrant," a sting operation involving the Florida Highway Patrol, Kissimmee police and the Osceola County Sheriff's Office, nabbed 171 drivers -- most of whom ran red lights, a violation that carries an $83 fine.
Undercover deputies stood along streets and gave the indication they were vagrants by pushing shopping carts and wearing fake teeth and tattered clothing. They also carried small cardboard signs, which read, "Sheriff's traffic sting in progress. Buckle up."
"It's kind of appalling," said Marilyn Gordon, executive director of the Homeless Services Network of Central Florida. "I wonder if it will be a consciousness-raising exercise for the law-enforcement officers."
Robert H. Brown, president and chief executive officer of the Coalition for the Homeless of Central Florida, said the officers were being silly.
"It's ironic that they would use a disguise of someone that people think of as visually offensive," Brown said. "I just think it shows that the community's aware of the homeless problem. I wish they would solve it, rather than masquerading."
Osceola sheriff's bureau Chief Jerry Geier said the sting was designed to raise awareness about dangerous intersections.
Nearly 25,000 drivers were ticketed for running red lights in Florida in 2001, and 107 deaths that year were attributed to drivers disregarding traffic signals. Plus, police nationwide started a new initiative this week to call attention to dangers of riding in a vehicle without using a seat belt.
"Our ultimate goal is to make an impact," Geier said. "The last thing we're trying to do is disrespect anybody."
State Rep. Irv Slosberg, D-Boca Raton, an advocate of stronger seat-belt and other traffic-safety laws, applauded the sting operation. His daughter, Dori, 14, was killed in a 1996 traffic accident in which she did not wear a seat belt.
"I admire them for being creative," Slosberg said.
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should dress as pushers
then they could sting em they are dealing or wheeling :)
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Originally posted by Eagler
should dress as pushers
then they could sting em they are dealing or wheeling :)
Good point!
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"I just think it shows that the community's aware of the homeless problem. I wish they would solve it, rather than masquerading."
Since when is it the job of law enforcement to "solve" the homeless problem?
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Originally posted by gofaster
"I wish they would solve it, rather than masquerading."
The police should solve the homeless problem. Riiight.
As if they can really fix it. Take 'em and dump 'em in someone else's town. Problem solved...
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Just 1 more example of using Gestapo tactics by the man. Next they will kick in your door to make sure you are not running with scissors and do a quick sweep of the house while they are there. Remember, it's all for your safety! You don't have anything against safety do you? What have you got to hide? Well then you won't mind us looking, will you?:eek:
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How did you go from standing on a street corner to kicking in your front door? :rolleyes:
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Liked that did ya?:D
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BWAHAHAHAA love the sting operation!!!!
RPM, you really have a problem with being paranoid dontcha? Better look under the coffee table for that microphone....... :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Maverick
BWAHAHAHAA love the sting operation!!!!
RPM, you really have a problem with being paranoid dontcha?
Welll.....he is a Maverick's fan after all. Havent you heard that the NBA and David Stern are out to get them?
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"I just think it shows that the community's aware of the homeless problem. I wish they would solve it, rather than masquerading."
Having been a police officer in Florida for over 7 years, this is my take on it...
First of all, being homeless is not a crime... Therefore solving this problem has absolutely NOTHING to do with the police. The moron that made this comment in the article is obviously confused. He needs to point the finger at himself as a "concerned citizen" for this problem not being solved.
I mean what does he expect the police to do about it? Violate their rights by rounding up all the homeless and placing them in a camp?
People broke the law by running a red light and got caught by a cop dressed as a hobo. So what? If you don't want a ticket, don't run red lights... Geez...
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Originally posted by rpm371
Just 1 more example of using Gestapo tactics by the man. Next they will kick in your door to make sure you are not running with scissors and do a quick sweep of the house while they are there. Remember, it's all for your safety! You don't have anything against safety do you? What have you got to hide? Well then you won't mind us looking, will you?:eek:
Yeah, let's just get rid of all the traffic laws and let the motorists have at it.
Tell that to someone who's had a cop knock on their door to tell them a member of their family was killed by some moron who ran a red light because he was in a hurry to get to work.
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I've driven the stretch of one of the roads they're patrolling - Irlo Bronson Highway, a main road leading to/from the Disney theme parks and to/from the hotels, restaurants, stores, and second-tier amusements. I'm guessing 90% of the people on that road have never driven that road before and aren't really sure where they are going. It is typical to see a car in the far left lane suddenly turn right across 2 lanes of traffic to get to a hotel or restaurant on the other side. You really have to maintain your SA on that road.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
If you don't want a ticket, don't run red lights... Geez...
blatant thread hijack.....
LOS ANGELES -- A timing error in a red-light camera at an East Los Angeles intersection snapped photos of passing drivers a half-second too soon, a mistake that will cost the county at least $500,000.
http://www.nbc4.tv/traffic/2208612/detail.html
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IMO it's a brilliant tactic. disguise yourself as a part of the population that most find invisible.
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they should just put the hot dog selling thong ladies back on the corners ... ppl used to slow to catch the red lights at those intersections... cheaper than cops, tickets, courts and all the paperwork that goes along with it + better to look at than a hobo.
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disguise yourself as a part of the population that most find invisible.
agreed. who really looks closely at a homeless person when they are on the streetcorner?
great idea. if you don't want a ticket, don't break the law. if you don't like the law, then change it.
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In maitland, they use to run a sting with a cop sitting on a backhoe, and a gun and get people on I-4 all the time. There was a big wright up about years ago.. Newest things is the Camera at the traffic light, and at our toll booths. We have a thing calle e-pass. The speed limit is 35.. next year anyone going over 35 will be ticketed. There will be a zero tollerance though the booth. Talk about PINA!!:mad:
Eagle, but they cause more fender benders.. staring a the gril in the string thong. Thats how I got rearended at traffic light. Guy didn't notice the light turned red I stopped and well.. he was lookling at the chick instead of the car ahead. I'm glad their banned.
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traffic laws are all about safety, of course they are, thats why the state of florida has raised the traffic fines, the extra $200-$300 million is needed to balance the budget.... but it's all about safety.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
IMO it's a brilliant tactic. disguise yourself as a part of the population that most find invisible.
I was thinking just how "aware" Floridians were to the homeless plight. My money says cops had never been so invinisible in Florida before that sting. I wonder how many people read the cardboard signs the cops had.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mickey1992
Since when is it the job of law enforcement to "solve" the homeless problem?
You want to solve the homeless program? Easy- drug test welfare applicants. Campaign for bans on panhandling. Outlaw (or enforce) drinking in public laws. Don't donate money to soup kitchens or overnight shelters, and if the community you live in spends your tax dollars on them then campaign to change it. These homeless derelects, addicted to drugs and alcohol, are the worst of subhuman filth. I don't want to "save" them, and if you enable them by giving them food, money and a place to stay then they have no reason to save themselves. They are like pigeons- the more you feed them the more of them there are. Fug em.
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I was thinking just how "aware" Floridians were to the homeless plight. My money says cops had never been so invinisible in Florida before that sting. I wonder how many people read the cardboard signs the cops had.
MiniD
exactly, they could have had signs that said " I'm a cop, and you are getting busted right now" and nobody would have seen them.
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Gscholz,
Some of those suggestions you made for taking care of the homeless have been tried. They used to be "rounded up" and taken to a hospital. Granted it was a mental care facility but they got care, food, shelter and a chance at rehab. The ACLU felt that was unreasonable and that the homeless were in fact being arrested instead. The court agreed and those folks were released back into the street.
Now here is another bit of information. Quite a few of these folks do NOT want to be anywhere but the street. Not all of them but a fair number prefer to do what they are doing. You can throw money at this problem until you are blue in the face but it won't solve it, unfortunately. :(
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rehab only works for a small percentage.
if you legalize, they can get much more for a lot less $$. which leaves 2 options-
1. they need to steal a lot fewer stereos to get their fix.
2. or for the truly out of control, they'll just get more faster. soon leading to an OD(not many relapses from a fatal OD)
I'm not saying to kill or hurt these people but I don't see where we as a society are obligated to save every handsomehunk from himself.
not only that but the money we would save on police, courts prisons, ect could really be used for something useful like schools or guarenteed rehab available for those who are smart enough to want it (those who rehab is most likely to work on).
not only does it have no repeats but a grave is much cheaper than even just the first round of forced rehab.
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Originally posted by john9001
traffic laws are all about safety, of course they are, thats why the state of florida has raised the traffic fines, the extra $200-$300 million is needed to balance the budget.... but it's all about safety.
What else are we going to do that would get your attention? A traffic fine is just a friendly reminder that we could be washing you off the highway with a fire hose if you keep up your stupid behavior.
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Originally posted by john9001
traffic laws are all about safety, of course they are, thats why the state of florida has raised the traffic fines, the extra $200-$300 million is needed to balance the budget.... but it's all about safety.
Yeah right, the lawmakers thought to themselves: "Let's make it illegal for people to run red lights, that oughta raise a few million bucks for the State"...
If you think traffic laws were created for the sole purpose of generating revenue with no thought of safety in mind, you've sure got a unique perspective on things. Breaking a law must have a punishment or the law would have no validity. I suppose you'd rather them throw you in jail instead of just nailing you with a fine. That way, it wouldn't add any money to the State's coffers. In fact, it would even cost the State money to keep you in jail. What an idea!
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Originally posted by GScholz
Sure. This is all about how a society is responsible to its people, and what standards are accepted.
Bulls**t- people are responsible to society, not the other way around. Let's define terms here- by "homeless" I'm refering to the mostly single male drug and/or alcohol addicted derelects walking my neighborhood, looking for an open garage door and the opportunity to rip off a bicycle, or some tools, or my fishing pole...
Then they sell what they steal or panhandle for drug/alcohol money and eat at a soup kitchen and, when the weather is cold, they stay at a free homeless shelter supported by MY tax money. Oh, and it has nothing to do with "capitalism." :rolleyes: In fact the capitalist system we are priveleged to live in removes barriers on the potential economic achievements we can enjoy. Derelects are derelects because the choose to be so- not because they are "victims" of a "cruel capitalistic society."
Maybe feeding homeless derelects might give you a warm and fuzzy feeling, but all you accompish is that you enable them to continue to be addicts and suck off Society's tit. Tell the business owners in San Francisco who have to clean up the human feces from their doorways every morning that the soup kitchen on the corner is a good thing. Tell the guy (me) who had to get blood tests monthly for six months because a derelect scratched my hand that enabling these people to continue to use drugs is a good thing.
Sorry GScholz, in principle providing for these people seems like a good idea, but all that accomplishes is they can spend all their efforts panhandling or stealing to support a drug habit. Fug em.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Bulls**t- people are responsible to society, not the other way around. Let's define terms here- by "homeless" I'm refering to the mostly single male drug and/or alcohol addicted derelects walking my neighborhood, looking for an open garage door and the opportunity to rip off a bicycle, or some tools, or my fishing pole...
Then they sell what they steal or panhandle for drug/alcohol money and eat at a soup kitchen and, when the weather is cold, they stay at a free homeless shelter supported by MY tax money. Oh, and it has nothing to do with "capitalism." :rolleyes: In fact the capitalist system we are priveleged to live in removes barriers on the potential economic achievements we can enjoy. Derelects are derelects because the choose to be so- not because they are "victims" of a "cruel capitalistic society."
Maybe feeding homeless derelects might give you a warm and fuzzy feeling, but all you accompish is that you enable them to continue to be addicts and suck off Society's tit. Tell the business owners in San Francisco who have to clean up the human feces from their doorways every morning that the soup kitchen on the corner is a good thing. Tell the guy (me) who had to get blood tests monthly for six months because a derelect scratched my hand that enabling these people to continue to use drugs is a good thing.
Sorry GScholz, in principle providing for these people seems like a good idea, but all that accomplishes is they can spend all their efforts panhandling or stealing to support a drug habit. Fug em.
Airhead, I thought you were liberal. Liberals love creating conditions benificial for bums.
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I think traffic fines where originally and for the most part still are set up for public safety.
but they are often exploited as a cash cow for local areas. I work construction and travel all over the country. mostly to small towns. and while it's not the norm it also isn't rare when local cops look to these out of town guys who seem to be making lots of cash (they forget that while we are usually making more than your average local in the same line of work we are also supporting a home as well as the residence we maintain in their area) as a wonderful new revenue source.
the cops often lie and fabricate violations. months before a large project starts some areas will raise the fine for many violations (usually to a little less than a days work pays, so as not to make it worth your while to fight it) then give a reduced fine for locals so they can get the most from their rape of out of towners.
they also like to schedule court dates for many weeks later so you would have to drive hundreds of miles to go back to court and fight the ticket.
and how do you fight it?
I had one 2 years ago. was nearing an intersection when my radar detector went off (wasn't speeding). so I looked around and saw one of the guys I work with going into a convenience store. I honked and waved to him as I pulled up to the stop sign. knowing how the local cops can nit-pick for a violation I actually stopped twice (once at the stop sign, which was to far back from the intersection to see oncoming traffic, and again at the edge of the lane I was turning onto). I take the turn and get up to 30 mph (in a 45) as the cop pulls me over. he says I didn't stop and writes a ticket for $320.
luckily I had the detector and knew to start protecting myself (by gathering witnesses before hand) and the job ended 2 days before my court date so me and my witness stayed and fought it and won.
but what if I didn't have the detector? (most cops and many judges see your possession of one as a defacto admission of guilt)
what if I hadn't had a co-worker handy who could look over as I honked to witness my stopping?
I'd have been screwed, as has happened many times (at least 3 in the last 6 years) and it doesn't even come close to ending with the fine. the convictions from the times they get away with it are used as evidence of your guilt as a 'pattern of behavior' when you are fighting the next one. and the big ticket $$ is what it does to your insurance rates.
for speeding tickets you used to be able to ask to see the gun reading but lately the cops have been told not to 'lock-in' the speed. that way you can’t ask to see it (the reading isn't there).
why would this be a policy other than a deliberate attempt to defraud the public? isn't it part of a police officers job to preserve evidence? wouldn't leaving the reading locked in until after your stop is over so you can exercise your right to review all evidence brought against you seem to fall under that responsibility?
the bottom line is many cops lie. they lie often and without conscience, some daily.
I guess it's similar to the old 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'. when people (courts) automatically believe whatever you say ( so long as concrete evidence to dispute you isn't available). and those defending themselves are not believed unless the can prove they are telling the truth. you eventually start believing you can say whatever you want, and then start doing it.
what ever happened to guilt beyond reasonable doubt? in a situation where you have your word against a cop, without further evidence (logged reading on a radar gun, tape from the camera in most cars now) it seems to me a toss up. either could be lying, not near enough margin for error for any type of conviction.
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Wow Apathy, amazing- Why do you suppose the police are picking on you? Do you look funny? Have bumper stickers on your car that say "F**k The Cops?" I'm curious because I haven't been pulled over in about 20 years now, much less gotten a ticket.
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when you work construction and have a couple hundred guys show up in a town that may only have a couple thousand most of the year it's often like 'open season' for the cops, and it's not hard for the locals to pick you out from one of their own.
the worst cases of this are the projects that require you to have a parking pass that sticks to your car (I much prefer the one that hangs from the rear-view so I can take it down when not at work) then they can spot you right off.
the also put out extra patrols on the routs between hotels and the project so they can make the most of the cash crop.
you are not alone though. many think that just because they don't run into these problems in their sheltered little lives that these problems don't really happen to those who don't deserve it.
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As a former police officer, I've never lied in court during my entire career whether it was a traffic ticket or a homicide.
However, before I was a police officer, I got pulled over and the State Trooper blatantly lied. I took it to court and lost because it was his word against mine. Some cops do lie, unfortunately. Every one of them who does is a scumbag who doesn't deserve to wear a badge... Whether it's "just" a traffic ticket or not.
Integrity is the singlemost important quality a police officer should possess. I treasured mine like it was the last thing I owned.
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Originally posted by capt. apathy
...you are not alone though. many think that just because they don't run into these problems in their sheltered little lives that these problems don't really happen to those who don't deserve it.
Actually I find it highly doubtful that you've gotten six tickets recently and EVERY ONE of the Cops lied. I have two uncles that are retired law enforcement and a cousin working for the CHP and none of them lie about traffic violations just to generate income for the city treasury.
As far as my "sheltered little life" goes? Frankly Apathy I'm offended at that comment. What modest financial successes I've had have been the result of hard work and percerverance- nobody ever gave me anything more than advice, and I've been self employeed for 20 years now. Call it sheltered if you like, but writing your own paychecks and having to cover them is a hell of a lot less sheltered than working construction for somebody where you get that paycheck every two weeks and don't have to sweat making it good. "sheltered little life" indeed.
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actually in the last 10 years I've recieved 7 tickets. 3 of which the cop lied 4 that I had comming. not too bad considering I log over 16,000 miles per year (this is only the tax deductable, weekly to the job area for the week milage. not the daily driveing or even counting the jobs that are within 50 miles of the house, that's not worth keeping track of. ) for work alone.
and as far as guarenteed paychecks in construction that is laughable. companys go under, checks bounce you find out that they didn't pay into your benifit acounts. you drive 1,200 miles (spending the last of the money you saved up for the winter 'no-work season') to a job that is suposed to be 7-12's for 6 weeks turns out the project was cut back and half the guys just get 2 hours pay for show-up and turned around and the rest get 4-10's for 2 weeks.
as far as your life being sheltered if you've never been hassled unjustly by a cop, never seen a cop lie, never recieved an unjust ticket. then wether you want to admit it or not your life is sheltered.
btw- as far as your family not lying about tickets. how the hell do you know? do you think the POS that lie and make-up charges go home and brag to their family about what low-lifes they are?
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Well, you better mind your P's and Q's if you ever drive in California and my cousin pulls you over. I told him you called his Daddy a liar and now he's pissed enough to write up every Oregon driver he catches. And it's all your fault. So there.
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this is comical. you actually think we care about the treasury when we issue a ticket? if this is the case you need to look at the total numer of traffic fatalities from last year. As far as the lying, I choose not to entertain you.
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Capt. Apathy, what is your mailing address? Concho wants to send you a speeding ticket. :D
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Originally posted by Airhead
Capt. Apathy, what is your mailing address? Concho wants to send you a speeding ticket. :D
lol :)