Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs2 on May 23, 2003, 08:12:31 AM
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How many of the "missuns" will be a half dozen tiffies suiciding into the fuel at an enemy base? How many will consist of a lone heavy 38 suicideing into buildings over and over at the enemy base? How many will be sneak missuns or steamroller missuns?
How many will be set up so that one group meets another comparable sized group and.... gasp... fights?
lazs
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Tell you the truth laz1, I think you furballers and those steamrolling suiciding tiffy dorks are all just a bunch of dweebs.
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In AH2:ToD (missun arena) missions are genrated by the host. Suicide pilots will happen because thats just what some people like but if they suicide alot they loose their rank and have to back through training. There will be a death penalty. It wont be an open arena you will have to join missions that will be generated every 30 min (last number i read).
Bombers will be suplemented by ai. So you could have 50 bombers (humans can fly bombers as well but they will be part of the larger formation).
So a set of missions could be
offensive
1. Bomb xxx
2. escort bombers to xxx
3. Sweep xxx ahead of bombers
Defensive
2. defend xxx
3. top cover for defenders of xxx
for the bombers to complete their mission they must destroy xx % of target and rtb
for escorts to complete their mission xx% of the bombers must survive and they must rtb
for the sweep to be completed these fighters must engage the enemy over the target and shoot x % down and then rtb.
the defense fighters must either shoot down xxx number of bombers and/or ensure the target doesnt recieve more then xx damage and then rtb
the top cover must cant let more then xxx of the defense fighter be killed and rtb
HT will tweak the numbers for mission success vrs mission failure vrs lost aircraft or death so that thers a real penalty for death but to ensure that folks dont fly real timid.
Imagine if the escort fighters spot 50 enemy planes and turn and leave the bombers because they are to afraid to risk death to help out. For this reason mission failure needs to be penalized as well.
10 point for mission sucess
-5 for failure
-10 for lost aircraft
-50 for death
would be good.
How do you make sure each mission has one opposing it and in term has people actually flying it I dont know.
Base capture wont be a part of AH2:ToD. Without base capture I doudt we will see pork and auger but there will always be those few who will try it.
I dont think it will have much appeal for the instant action junkies like yourself. I dont see you on a 45 min bomber escort mission flying peeeeeeeeeee51s at 30k for then 5 -10 min of "fighting' just to rtb so you can make general. Maybe I am stereotyping but General Lazs just dont seem right.
But AH2:classic will just like the main now with the new terrain and art.
Fuel porking can be over come in the main if the map makers add so 15 fuel bunkers spread out accross a field so you cant kill mosre then 1 at a time. This way they would need 200 typhies to kill 15 bunkers.
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Must be nice out in Cali today Lazs is out fishun...
And the hook has been baited...
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so... you don't think any of the "missuns" will be set up for suicide building battling or steamrolling undefended or lightly defended fields?
lazs
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I dont know. Undefended and lightly dfended most likely will be determined by how many folks join the counter mission. HT also mentioned mission that have no counters. So its certainly possible.
Airfield porking wont be a problem because missions will be genarted by the host and should make the start field one that ha sthe resources to support it. But its not an open arena anyway. You couldnt just come in pick a field and fly.
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so you think that some of the 'missuns' that people wait a half hour for will be steamroller the undefended field and kill the buildings and ai?
lazs
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Are you going to fly the Mission Arena, Lazs?
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yup some missions will be against buildings and other inanimate objects. There was talk about ai gvs. So I can imagine a ground attck mission in support of gvs. Whether that means against enemy gvs or leveling ack and buildings so gvs can roll in. I know there will be no base capture like in the main. I dont know if there will be a dynamic front that moves in relation to mission types.
But there will be missions where you see no enemy or that your objective is something other then a2a combat.
The waiting 30 min (or however long ht decides between missions) maybe necessary to get the mission organized and every one informed as to what they are suppose to do.
You will have much longer flight times then wait times between missions.
You could spend near an hour doing nothing but waiting to take off and flying to target only to discover that no enemy joined the counter mission. Or find out your outnumbered 4 to 1.
Or the next mission available could be go jabo xx bridge with no enmy mission to counter.
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Laz, there will be no deliberate suiciding.
Man, what are you thinking? There's RANK to consider!
Suicide into a building and you may not make 1st Lieutenant or something!
And how else to show your true RL superiority and excellence except by illustrious rank conferred on you by a computer game?
Herr Generalfeldmarschall Laz! Brought down to Gefreiter Laz by a suicide attack? I seriously doubt that!
Like the CT, the Mission Arena will be a wonderful thing for AH. Everyone benefits.
Rejoice, amigo!
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Rank isnt the end it a means to ensure a type of behavior. Not because you make "general" but because if you remain at the bottom the potential for you to end up back in training is closer then someone who is ranked as a "general".
You cant just ride the bottom. If you die you loose points. If you loose points you loose rank. If you loose rank you end up back in training. In effect you wont be flying very much if you cant advance. Rank or whatever you wanna call it creates a buffer between you and training. Mission will also will be organized and lead. After a mission each pilot will be evaluated by the other members of the mission. These evals along with general score will determin who leads missions.
The CT gets 10% of the main and for those who fly ther its a complete sucess. When AH started you had similiar numbers in the main. It was still fun. It still draws more then wb3.
Ah2:ToD would not need large numbers in the arena but just a few well balanced missions. 12 escort vrs 12 enemy trying to kill 50 bombers will be equal to the action in the ah main now. But without the running or the bombers nosing over to divebomb a vh. HT will need to balnce the numbers between a death penalty mission failure and mission success so that people fight rather then just fly around real timid.
Your recent posts about strat demonstrate how bad the main is now. Folks had brought the very issues you bring up about strat well over a year ago. I believe your reply was "you all are whiners and what do you expect for 50 cents a day".
The lack of "fighting" in the ah main has made it boring. Anything that may encourages fighting will be good. In Ah2:ToD. we may have long flight times but theres the encentive to fight. If a tool like rank or points or whatever helps the fight then who cares.
If there only 50 guys in the arena and split between an attack mission and a defense mission its still more fighting then what I have found recently in the main. Even with longer flight times and everything else. I know you dont fly FB but 32 man coops with an ai element is far more fun (if you like the particular planeset set the watching 20 suicide jabos fly into the ground to kill 3 buildings.
AH2:ToD wont have the instant action that ah of a year and a half ago had (or whenever it was right before the numbers exploded and those suicide typh raids became regular). Which is one thing missing from all the current flight games.
Even with NB adding more fields to trinity this just adds more undefended fields to be milked. It wont mean more fights. 1 fighter can still kill the fuel at a field and it will still take 30 min or however for them to be rebuilt or resupplied.
As stupid as General XX sounds it willl need to be fought for. Thats more then a reset in the main.
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Hey, to be honest I just skimmed your post. I have no problem with or much interest in the details of the new gameplay. I'll let them set it up, give it a try and see what I think from there.
Just wanted to clear up a conceptual thing or two.
I have no problem with folks that want to fly the CT or the Mission Arena for whatever reason. I think folks paying for a service should get what makes them happy commensurate with the ability of the providing company to reasonably achieve that.
I am GLAD "CT guys" have the CT. They weren't happy in the MA and now they have something that makes them happier. They're happier, I'm happy that they're happier.
Same exact thoughts for the "Mission Arena". It will obviously provide some things that will make some players happier within AH. A good thing for all of us. They'll be happier and I'll be happy that they're happier.
I don't think we can realistically expect one big MA to provide all the elements that will make everyone "happy". That's why we got the CT and are getting the Mission Arena. It's a natural fractionating of the group because not every has the same gameplay goals.
So, more power to the CT and the Mission Arena. Bound to make more folks smile when they play.
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any word on the big WHEN ???
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Oh, and can you enumerate my complaints about "strat"?
I think all I've said regarding "strat" per se is the effort to replenish fuel should be somewhat commensurate with the effort to degrade it. Otherwise, I don't care about "strat".
As to steamrollers.. yeah, they're there but you can fly away for them or on the edges. So, it's not that big a factor.
BTW, the CT isn't really any different in that respect. It's just on a smaller scale so it is more managable. IMO. You meet the same exact type players in the CT, just in smaller groups; at least that's been my experience. Well, maybe even more alt monkeys. :D But if that's what they want to do, it's OK. I just try to do my thing and let others do their thing.
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Ok, I thought you were deriding the folks who prefer the ct or may even prefer the new mt.
To me your previous post read rather sacastic but what do I know.
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Well, obviously, rank means nothing to me. And I do find it somewhat amusing that some folks take it seriously, like the guys that tack a rank on to their signature, like "Major Domo" or the like.
But again, that's just my personal view on it.
As a motivator for gameplay it will obviously work for some folks and may be a key ingredient in achieving the type of gameplay they want/need in the new arena.
I doubt it would have any effect on my usage of the arena. I'll be there if the fights are good and the boredom quotient is low. I have flown a few of the various scenarios and TOD type stuff. Some of them were good, some of them bored me to tears.
Anytime I feel myself going for the alt/tab to web surf while flying AH, I get a baaad feeling. Like "why bother playing then?"
I'll just have to see how the new arena works for me. The "rank" may be a big factor if it allows 10 cent generals to order me to do this or that with the ability to deny my capability to launch. :D
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From my POV, the fun in AH has slowly eroded as all this extraneous garbage has been added to the original, fun Fighter Combat MAIN ARENA.
I could quote moree just from that Trinity thread but the above covers it.
This arguement was made well over a year ago. For some it wasnt "slowly eroded". The influx from aw and the more difficult bomb site changed the Nature of the main. In a matter of a few months we saw the rise of pork auger and a shift that took base capture from a means to encourage a2a (something to fight over) to a means to trigger a reset. The reset meant all.
I dont fly in ct anymore and havent in months. Its has changed as much as the main. At one time the ct had no base capture and was a totally different arena. In order to get more folks in the setting and concept was changed. Instead of bringing in more folks in brought in just enough to replace those who left.
The ct was never about better people but fights. Some tried the "come fly with the cool kids" in the ct but it never was that. The CT has shifted away from the fight to something else that those who fly there now seem to enjoy.
The MT wont be the promised land but atleast to me it has more potential then the field capture, reset driven main. The whole idea of strat in any of these arenas is funny to me because its just so fake.
I used to like to big furballs and I used to enjoy intercepting those old hq raids. I would have np with the field capture crew if there was an area where one could just fight. But unfortunately to capture the bases they need to kill the fuel and hangers and all the things that impact my ability to have fun. I dont care about resets or the capturing of fields or even what map is up. I would like pop in for an hour or so have a few fights and log. Before you could this every night. Then it got to a few times a week and now a few times a tour.
I dont know that the MT will be "better" but if it stays focused on the fight then I can deal with longer flight times, death penalties and the wait between missions.
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Yeah, I think the old pure ACM gameplay was more fun. So? I'm not quitting AH or the MA over it. I've had a lot of fun the last two weeks.
I don't have a problem with the "strat" per se unless it absolutely compels players to play that game. There's room in my church for all types of players. :D
And the present strat does not compel. Despite the horde aspect of strat as it is currently practiced, just about every map still allows the "fun fighters" to do their thing. Oh, there's irritants, like the disproportionate kill fuel/replenish fuel aspect, but even on the small maps there's good fights. You just have to move away from the horde attacks and start up a little row in a quiet area.
We TAS always seem to be able to get the BK's to party in a formerly quiet area with just a quick private message exchange. And that's ALWAYS a good time.
So, maybe I've presented my views incorrectly. The present "strat" doesn't bother me much. But yes, there are a few minor irritants but no "show stoppers". If guys like to do that stuff, let them. It really has no effect on my play because I can always find a good CV battle going or a fur in a quiet corner with like-minded individuals.
Similar to my take on the CT or the new arena. It's all good and I have no serious problem with it as long as the Genralissimo's grant me the favor of allowing me to do my thing too.
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the ol WB ACA arena was a blast IMO...
Milenko and I would fly all night there, drinking and flying and having fun
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batz.. what is "training" and why would you bother? A for instance might be... guarding bombers... I would obviously go after the fighters and not care how many ai bombers got shot down... i woul get say 5 kills that sortie. the guy who clung to the bombers going slow would probly die...
Who would get the rank?
I would get rank in that arena because.... well... I am at least mediocre... I will allways outperform those who go to that arena and have no real skills (worse than mediocre)... I will do as I please and they will stick to the rules being further penalized..
Can you not see the potential for conflict? The CT is a dream compared to that. They feel a comraderie that is born of being so few.... when things get lopsided tho... even their tempers flair... the longer they, or any of us go without action the more intense is the letdown when something percieved as not fair kills them. That is what is happening in the MA with the fields being farther apart... try to imagine if you will, ol lazs going in the missun arena and simply klling the attackers or defenders, depending, without any thought to the ultimate success of the missun.
just seems like a lot of potential for discord... who will decide what is appropriate action/behavior in a "missun" and who will judge/enforce?
the MA is full of gamey suicide dweebs and timid sky accountants... why would they change their stripes in another arena?
azs
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I don't understand why you're concerned about the Mission arena, Lazs.
It's obviously not your cup of tea.
You're not going to fly it, are you?
You're getting a graphics upgrade in the MA, and closer fields/More CVs on Trinity. Sounds like the MA will be Utopia for you once AHII comes along.
Why do you care what happens in ToD?
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Oh... I never say never... I don't like the CT but... lesser of two evils kinda thing... I have flown the CT when it is 3 sector flights in infinity or pizza or nite in them so....
say it's night time in pizza land and say it's dee 9's and 109 f's and 205's against p40b's in the ct and say.... the "missun arena" has a missun coming up that is a fighter sweep at 5K between two close fields with 40 guys on in 2 minutes...
I'm gonna try the missun... I'm gonna kill anything I can too. I will probly do ok... in fact... they may make me a colonel or general and I can order you to be my wingman.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Oh... I never say never... I don't like the CT but... lesser of two evils kinda thing... I have flown the CT when it is 3 sector flights in infinity or pizza or nite in them so....
say it's night time in pizza land and say it's dee 9's and 109 f's and 205's against p40b's in the ct and say.... the "missun arena" has a missun coming up that is a fighter sweep at 5K between two close fields with 40 guys on in 2 minutes...
I'm gonna try the missun... I'm gonna kill anything I can too. I will probly do ok... in fact... they may make me a colonel or general and I can order you to be my wingman.
lazs
I was the impression you had no intentions of trying it.
You seem to think I would have some problem flying as your wingman. We've flown in some battles together, and I've given you the same courtesy as any other Knight pilot. I'll continue to do so, giving 6 calls, and clearing you when needed.
Just because we have differing views on this game does not mean we're not on the same team when we go into the arena.
I look forward to flying with you and your squad in the ToD.
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Training is the "death penalty" for those ranked at the bottom.
If there was nothing else you would get perpetual bottom feeders who may just act as spoilers for the rest of the folks.
Q: Briefly describe the rank progression as you envision it. Will this be simply a ‘perk point’ based rank increase or will certain people be chosen to run certain aspects of the arena, akin to the CM setup that we have for the TOD and Snapshot events?
Rank progession will be similar a typical RPG with experience points and levels except that we will have ranks and career points or whatever we decide to call them. It’s totally different from our perk point system in that it is mainly achieved through mission success rather than just how many kills you get.
ToD runs as an automated process so there’s nothing like a CM required. We’re considering allowing players to design campaigns and missions. The big drawback to that is that they wouldn’t be able to participate in them.
Q: How are mission orders generated? At what level, or rank, will gamers be able to create missions or will this be limited to a few selected individuals? How will the staff be used to control the numbers of missions and who makes them?
Players don’t create missions. The missions come down from HQ a.k.a. the host. In planning an attack, the best mission plan would be one with no enemy contact. However, that would make for a pretty dull mission and we don’t want that. So the missions are orchestrated to give an almost certain probability of enemy contact while preserving the ability to be surprised and have to react.
Q: How do you see squad or unit structure shaping out in AHII? For example, currently there is a 32 person limit for squad members in one arena. Is there a plan on changing that?
There will be a lot of things that are either different or won’t carry over from Classic to ToD. For example, killshooter (reflective damage for friendly fire) will remain in Classic but won’t be in ToD. Instead, there will be a court martial system.
Q:Part of the artificial feel of the furball-type of games now is that death essentially means nothing. What happens in AHII when an avatar dies? Do you go back to square one or is there a ‘penalty’ for dying? At the same time, what will you do to prevent ‘point hogging’ by some folks that will not accept risks if it involves the potential loss of their avatar?
There is a penalty for death, but it won’t take you all the way back to square one and it will be variable according to the situation and your rank. How much we penalize death vs. how much we penalize not accomplishing the mission is the delicate balance we need to strike. The benchmark we use to find that balance is by looking at mission results and loss rates. We want to keep the loss rates reasonably realistic. It won’t work if everybody is afraid to fight just as it won’t work if everybody is suicidal. The game needs to promote a balance of aggressiveness and self-preservation.
From HTs original thread about AH2
As we started working on the mission theater, we realized we were making a completely new game from that which is Aces High today.
This lead us to starting work on AcesHigh II. Which will be 2 games in one.
1st.
AcesHigh Classic, which will be the Main areana as we know today, only with updated Graphic Eng,and other sim items, but the game play will be similar to what it is today.
2nd. The Mission theater. We need a better name for this. AcesHigh "Fill In the blank"
This game will will be primarly geared toward role playing.
The outline of the game play items are as follows.
1. You will enter the game as a cadet and have to pass some training sorties to get your wings.
2. Once you get your wings you will be a 2nd LT with 500 carer points.
3. If you die you will loose aprox 100 career points.
4. If one your mission is a success you will recieve 10 carreer points.
5. If your points go to 0 you are demoted back to a cadet and have to go back threw training.
6. If you get 1000 Points you will be promoted to 1st LT.
Once your a 1st you will the loose 150 for a death and recieve 10 carreer points for mission successes. If you reach 0 your back to 2nd or 1000 your promoted. Along with a promtion comes better ground crews. So your guns might jam less,eng run better, but your expected perform a lot better. There's also medals and other stuff.
The point values in the example above are just for demonstration purposes just to give you an idea of how it will work.
Battles will last for a given period of time before moving onto the next phase of the war.
Missions with be automaticly generated by the host, and have a substantial AI componet of either bombers or ground vehicles.
Offensive missions will be primarly to protect bombers or vehicels, defensive to kill bombers, or vehicles.
You will have 2 avatars, one for axis one for allied. You will only be able to play 1 avatar per battle. There ranks will be independent.
So we would like some suggestions on the name. This is just a short outline of the the things we have in mind for the mission based play.
So does anyone have a cool name for it? We view this as a combination of flight/combat sim and military role playing. We'll be putting out some news about all this shortly, but we're stuck on a name.
HiTech
The numbers used in HTs announcement were just examples.
You can read the thread here
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76387
You can read this thread entitled "what happens when you die".
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77962
It is a longer discussion about training
From the FAQ (sticky at top of Forum)
What is Tour of Duty?
Tour of Duty is a cross between a historical WWII simulation and military RPG. What is so different about it is that it’s not simply an Axis vs Allies free-for-all using WWII equipment in a geographic WWII setting. ToD puts you in the role of a WWII combat pilot (of course the emphasis is on air-combat, but ground combat will also be included at times) with all the responsibilities and restrictions that comes with it. You are not just an operator of military equipment, you are a soldier or airman in the military. That means that everything you do is part of a unit and part of a mission. There is no free-lancing, you can’t just select a plane and head off to exchange lead with the closest enemy.
Everything in ToD is based on missions. It’s not necessarily about how many kills you get. It’s about the successful completion of the mission. Success will come to those who use teamwork. With success will come promotion and the additional privileges and responsibilities that that entails.
Think of the classic movie 12 O’Clock High and what it would be like to be in that setting. That’s what we want to capture with ToD. It’s not just the combat, it’s the entire experience. Filing into a mission briefing at 4 a.m., not knowing where you will be going until the curtain falls from the map and the mission briefing is given. Feeling the anxiety that comes with risking something, the camaraderie that comes from shared tribulations and interdependence, the pure adrenaline rush when enemy contact is made, the utter relief and letdown you feel when your wheels touch the runway, the exuberance upon seeing the results of a successful mission in the post-mission debrief, the pride of getting a second bar pinned on your collar, those are all experiences we want to capture with ToD.
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The MT will have a limited appeal especially to the current AH main players. Theres no doudt in that.
Rank is tool put in place to encourage the rps idea and to move people along. If you remain at the bottom and dont advance you are just a few deaths away from re-training.
You only advance if you complete your mission. So it also forces you to "participate" in the mission rather then freelance.
Read this thread as well
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87349
HT has stayed away from giving players the authority to boot people from missions and in allowing players to award mission points. The only input players have in in the evals.
For the most part if you join the mission fly it, complete it and land you will advance. Any kills you get will add to the points you get for completing the mission.
Gamey Dweebs and Sky accountants wont advance unless they fight. Hiding running and suiciding wont get you the help of the guys in the mission or futures missions that you would need to get kills and advance.
Dweeby behavior will get you bad evals as well so you may not be able to lead. They will be a "court martial" system for team killers.
Laz its everything you NEVER wanted in an arena. Its a bit rigid for me. But after doing IL2 coops I with similiar conditions I think it will be ok as long as there fights.
The arens wont be dependent on large numbers in game to make it a success. You just need enough on each side of a mission to make it fun.
But HT knows it wont appeal to all and will keep the current main gameplay intact.
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Originally posted by lazs2
batz.. what is "training" and why would you bother? A for instance might be... guarding bombers... I would obviously go after the fighters and not care how many ai bombers got shot down... i woul get say 5 kills that sortie. the guy who clung to the bombers going slow would probly die...
Who would get the rank?
azs
Why don't you ask the Tuskagee Airmen?
2Hawks,
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Excellent feedback, Batz. Sounds good, and I was particularly encouraged to see that the system won't depend on large numbers, because around the middle of the day here there are usually less than 100 people on.
I read every word of your analysis, unlike some people with shorter attention spans. Funny that someone like Lazs should start a thread about an arena he never plans to visit, and even funnier that Mr. Toad has spent time on this thread - 5 posts and counting! Hehe, another example of the non-strat guys pontificating on issues concerning strat LOL! Maybe Toad is just in here to follow Lazs around with the pooper-scooper, and make sure he doesn't create a situation he can't handle.
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I tell you what.
I haven't thought a whole bunch about the mission arena but after reading this thread I have a couple thoughts.
1. Being an early American allied pilot it will suck bad flying P-40B's against 109's at 25K. You might as well dive away and go home when you see the nme or just assume your going back to training.
2. If your a Pac theater fan waiting for the first Pac mission to launch after humpty squat BOB's or med theater this Kursk that or other will suck. The imbalance between PAC missions and Euro-missions in the CT is already unbearable. And then you don't get the F4U-1 in 3/4 of them. This will prevent me from being in it as it does in the CT.
3. The comment HT made about rookies getting broken airplanes and the dweebs (Perk potatos) getting uber planes worrys me a little bit. I can tell you this with no uncertainty. In the Navy/Marines there were no personized planes as it was bad for morale. Much like it could be in AH.
4. The absolute highlight of the arena will be poaching the dweebs by abandoning the bombers climbing to 30K and going straight after General Moron in his personal dweeb ride. This will insite much joy on channel 1 and nashing of teeth. The P-47D11 shall be my weapon.
Just a thought.
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me thinks after the initial hoopla, ah2 will be bout as popular as CT
why?
the average dweeb wants numbers to furball in so he can get his kill or two and land them
they want to fly the plane they want to when they want to, another reason the dweebos stay outa CT
same reason the free for all and the "relaxed" rooms are most popular on other flight sims
if "missions" are time consuming, that'll cut into the numbers too
guess I'm a CT dweeb as I log on 90% of the time to find a fight, try to win it and land. don't have time for all the "stategy" stuff
hoping AH2 has "lone wolf" fighter sweeps or AI wingies so you can get in and go - not have to wait till spots fill up
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hopefully rank wont be just a label it will affect what you can do and what you can fly or whether you can choose your own loadout etc which makes rank important.
to me it sounds like a good thing.It certainly works for all the boxed sims ive played over the years.Those games made us fly well and try not to waste aircraft or lives by opening up more of the game as you completed the missions and lived to land them.Its a simple carrot on a stick game.show em the carrot set a puzzle/task , if they solve it/complete it?, move the carrot further along and start all over again. Its the basis of hundreds of perfectly good and ENJOYABLE games(Elite,Their finest hour,freelancer,even things like half-life use same method)
It will work :D and i for one look forward to it
As to whether the mob will like it who knows? It depends on how good HTC make it doesnt it :)
what id like to see is a sort of semi static front which is hard to move. Certain areas would have very fast running close support type of missions because they are the hot spots.Furballer types will love them because the distances will be shorter.In other areas long missons of bombing leading behind the front to hit key strategic points like factories.Other bases will be the air defence types with the fast intercept aircraft being in rolling missions.If HTC makes the missions he can make one side bomb a capital whilst simultaniously he orders a defance of the area thus garenteeing some action for all involved.Some missions could be clear of enemy organised defence but it will be random so we wont be garenteed an easy time whatever mission we join.
Remeber that whilst this goes on everyone will be trying to stay alive. no more or at least a lot less people will be willing to HO everything they see. Players will still take risks and still make mistakes but the general mode of play will favour the non suicide minded player.
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Prefere to fly in the MA, Rank is useless, and I will choose not to play in an arena that restricts what I want to take out when I want to take it out. That is the primary attractor for me to this game, there is no division based on race, You are either ROok, Bish, or Knight and these "Countries" bear no resemblance to real life and therefore carry very little of the prejudices of real life into the game and vice versa.
I like to learn something new about a particular airplane, or test a new sound, and take up anything in the MA. For me it's a learning experience, to match techniques discussed from history and to try them out in this simulated one. While the "Modeling" may not always be accurate, it's fun nonetheless, to get the chance to fly a plane I, or any one else for that matter, may never be able to fly in real life.
Sometimes I llike to furball, sometimes I like to Bomb, But most often I enjoy flying with a wing of squaddies. Flying formation is much more enjoyble for me when I know it's other humans keeping with 'my' plane or myself keeping with them. Flying formation with Drones is boring, and unchallenging. And looks like 1 person flying with drones. With ppl, I know it's our group looking good. I resisted the bomber drones at first, but then realized it looked much more impressive When in formation with a more realistic drop. But you still needed a human to fly the lead bomber.
Final Point:
How many ppl are going to cry when a base is captured by an Entire AI Force? Or how many are going to cry that the AI was killed too easily when trying to defend? Or there was SuperAi in a particular location preventing any possible chance of a capture? The formula's to determine this are too complex for me to desire contemplating as it would be a massive waste of my cranial resources as I would have little to no effect on the outcome of develope apart from saying:
"I Don't think I will like it, and please Keep the MA"
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Originally posted by Eagler
me thinks after the initial hoopla, ah2 will be bout as popular as CT
why?
the average dweeb wants numbers to furball in so he can get his kill or two and land them
they want to fly the plane they want to when they want to, another reason the dweebos stay outa CT
same reason the free for all and the "relaxed" rooms are most popular on other flight sims
if "missions" are time consuming, that'll cut into the numbers too
guess I'm a CT dweeb as I log on 90% of the time to find a fight, try to win it and land. don't have time for all the "stategy" stuff
hoping AH2 has "lone wolf" fighter sweeps or AI wingies so you can get in and go - not have to wait till spots fill up
Yes Eaglr, I think you may turn out to be right. Even for strat players, sometimes there isn't time to get a campaign going, and I'll just up for a "quickie" - lol.
As far as I can tell, rank has no meaning in the MA - except for being able to take command of the CV and hold it, and not have some Dork ranked at number 7903 take it away and sail it to within half a mile of the nearest enemy base. Oh, and for bragging rights of course. My overall rank is about 470, so if a CV gets taken away from me I know it's a guy who knows the strategy. Take Rod367th - brilliant strategic player, and knows the game inside out. Yesterday he organised us to capture knit P36, and then bombed the enemy CV so that it would respawn as ours. With Rod helping us out, we really started making ground, whereas we had been down to 13 bases. (Bish)
It doesn't matter to me that I wasn't shooting something up every 5 seconds, so the mission arena may meet my needs, though the numbers will almost certainly drop off after the first few weeks.
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I'm sure all the "missuns" will be building battling and Tiffie suicide runs against undefended bases and such. I seriously doubt there will be any actual fighter vs fighter engagements. I mean.. why in the world would HTC go so far as to have "missuns" like opposing fighter sweeps and escort vs intercept type stuff where you end up in knife fight. No.. I just can't see HTC wasting thier time with that kind of thing, god forbid they have any furballing focused "missuns". Golly... we wouldn't want HTC to use any common sense would we?..... :rolleyes:
Laz sometimes I really wonder.
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How many ppl are going to cry when a base is captured by an Entire AI Force? Or how many are going to cry that the AI was killed too easily when trying to defend?
Theres no base capture so what are talking about.
The only ai there will be is bombers. This needed to get the large formations inorder to create decent missions. Ai will also supplement some GVs so that ground attck missions have something to kill. Not many humans will fly bomber or drive gvs. Atleast not enough to make a dedcent mission. But human can fly bombers and most likely gvs as part of a larger force. I dunno where you get ai capturing bases. I guess made it up on your own.
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I dunno where you get ai capturing bases. I guess made it up on your own.
In a previous post on another thread, someone mentioned / suggested that the server would create missions based on enemy activity. I Imagined that this would go on 24/7 regardless of the presecense(sp) or participation of any 'Human' pilots. This led to an assumption on my part to conclude that AI would be able to do more than bomb, or attack bombers.
This perpetual AI swarm of bombers and fighters would take resources. Would these AI be given free unlimited supplies? Would they bomb each other to a point of being unable to wage war and therefore make it impossible to up any fighter or ground vehicle to provide a defense / offense?
In such a resource starved environment where any base might have only 25% fuel for defense, I would make what I would think the most logical determination to be; Give the AI the power to capture, to reset the map, or to provide entertainment in the way of defense when there is not enough fuel / Bombs for an offensive strike.
But then again my current hypothesis is based on a LOT of assumptions as we have not gotten a whole lot of information from HTC on this particular topic *Hint*, and think HTC may still be working out the details himself.
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Theres no ai fighters either ;)
Ai will be to supplement the bombers and gvs only. Thats all.
The theater wont work like the main with base capture and field porking. Theres no reset. Theaters will run for a tour. Whether thats 1 month or something other. The gamey strat and field capture is what a lot of folks want to get away from.
It wont be an open arena where you can just in a plane at any field. The missions are host generated. What sense would it be to have the host launch missions from fields that dont have the fuel or ammo to support them? I would imagine there would be larger target for the bombers to hit and their only use will be as targets not as some simple strat structure like the main. You wont be trying to stop the other side from flying. You job will be to complete the assigned mission and survive. Thats all it needs to be.
All these points have been discussed in this forum. Although an updated FAQ would be nice theres plenty to be gained from searching the forum.
I can compile a list of these things from other threads but I dont have time right now.
Search the forum with HTs and Pyros names and you should get up to date quickly.
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One of the things people need to remember is that this whole concept is a way to grab the boxed sim crowd, such as those that spend hours and hours flying European Air War, Midway, and Aces Over the Pacific (I was one myself). EAW in particular still has a decent community doing on-line play, even though the maximum number allowed in a game session is only 16 people. It's also for the AH group that likes missions and cooperative play, and are in it for the immersion of emmulating a combat career. It won't be for everyone. I expect to spend time in the MT as well as the CT (if it still exists after AH2) or MA. Many of the AH players that have left did so because MA furballs are not immersive or realistic. HTC is trying to expand their marketshare, not split their existing share between two arenas. I'm looking forward to it, for the same reason I loved Falcon 3.0 and EAW.