Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Apache on May 23, 2003, 08:56:19 AM
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Just out of curiosity, I took the last 2 tours plus the current ones' stats of an individual who, IMO, is a suicide dweeb. To hear him tell it, he's an elite jabo pilot. I compared them to mine, a furballin' dweeb.
His:
Kills: 587
Assist: 175
Sorties: 3973
Landed: 754
Bailed: 252
Ditched: 264
Captured: 191
Death: 2499
Time: 343:56:42
Mine:
Kills: 413
Assist: 123
Sorties: 305
Landed: 211
Bailed: 0
Ditched: 23
Captured: 8
Death: 63
Time: 68:57:51
343 hours? 2499 deaths in 2 1/2 tours? Sheesh, I haven't died that many times in 3 years! No wonder we ain't got no fuel.
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Stop limiting other player's choices, Apache.
:D
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Originally posted by Toad
Stop limiting other player's choices, Apache.
:D
Lol Toad.
No wonder I don't play Quake and it's ilk. An arena full of that?
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That's gotta be the worst kills/sorties ratio I've ever seen.
I bet he's got a lot of buildings destroyed though! ;)
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Originally posted by Nifty
That's gotta be the worst kills/sorties ratio I've ever seen.
I bet he's got a lot of buildings destroyed though! ;)
heh, I imagine he has but he's wreckin' our lawn.
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we need a death per building destroyed stat.
I have seen raid where atleat 15 guys augered and killed maybe 3 structures.
Sweat Jesious!!!!!!!!!
344 hours :eek:
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I guess the closest we have is damage per death in attack and bomber missions...
Apache. what's the guy's damage/sortie, damage/deaths and hit percentage for ordnance in his attack sorties? ;)
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lol please tell us the name of that Ultimate dweeb
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I thought you had to release the bombs first ;)
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Last night was funny. CV was parked near Bish base. There must have been more than 100 suicide, low level buffs trying to reach the CV. Wave after wave for a good 40 minutes. Gotta give em credit, they finally got it.
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LOL I am trying to decide who is the bigger dweeb. The guy that does one way runs for over 300 hours, or he guy who takes the time to compile his stats, post them and then criticise.
14.95/month comes with no restriction as far as I can tell. If someone wants to bring his jabo into a base to be cannon fodder, I say , "have at her chief". Makes no diff to me wether I shoot down a kamikazee or a score monger. They all add up to the same perks:)))
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Originally posted by fffreeze220
lol please tell us the name of that Ultimate dweeb
LOL! I bet some of you guys wish it was me. But it isn't. :D
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Originally posted by dsrtrat
LOL I am trying to decide who is the bigger dweeb. The guy that does one way runs for over 300 hours, or he guy who takes the time to compile his stats, post them and then criticise.
14.95/month comes with no restriction as far as I can tell. If someone wants to bring his jabo into a base to be cannon fodder, I say , "have at her chief". Makes no diff to me wether I shoot down a kamikazee or a score monger. They all add up to the same perks:)))
Tunnel vision.
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What was the plane of choice?
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LOL! I bet some of you guys wish it was me. But it isn't.
hehe.. you expect me to pass that one up beetale?
:eek:
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Yes I agree suicide attacks are outta control these days. I have an idea that "might" slow some of them down. Do not award perk points unless a sortie is landed. I'm sure some of them care about the points and will try to survive. Yes there will be alot of running but that shouldn't bother the LA7 guys.
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They say the first step to a cure is to realize that you are sick. Okay, here goes....
I AM A SUICIDE DWEEB. I have been in the game for about 8 months, and I have died thousands of times. If you want to see the stats, look up "shubie". It's pretty sad.
I attack strat, even knowing that I might not survive.
I auger frequently.
I get shot down by the ack.
I get shot down by the kamikaze fighters.
I get shot down by the furballers.
I up at a vehicle spawn point many times to find and kill the campers. I get killed by the campers, a lot.
Heck, I get shot down by town buildings!!
And Boy oh Boy, do I have fun at it. Thank God this isn't real life. Thank God this isn't really like WW2.
Nobody out there is looking for the root cause of the high death count in the game. Do any of you really think that killing over THREE HUNDRED tanks in one month (last month for me) is realistic? I have news--it ain't. Here (IMO) is why:
1. Death is not final, here. Furballers, kamikaze fighters, and suicide dweebs ALL do things no sane person would do in real life, because of the incredibly high chance of getting dead. Remember, in WW2, none of us would have survived the first DAY, much less survive getting shot down several times a week. I looked at the stats for Furball ( Number 20 today, he has shot me down more than once), and he has a VERY high kill ratio (~7:1), 250 (!) fighter kills this tour, but HAS DIED 23 TIMES, and landed only (only is relative to real life, not my pitiful score, of course) 66% of his sorties.
2. Real countries ORGANIZE their armed forces. There is consistent training, a hierarchy, and common goals. We don't do that, because our purpose is to have fun, and people's ideas of what is fun differ widely. Nobody forces anyone to get in the game and play. Ever.
3. Real air forces plan their missions with things like high cover, escort, and stuff like that. That doesn't work well here, since everybody wants to do it their way. No problem, really. Enjoy.
In conclusion, I guess that I think that we have a pretty good game here, but we need to remember that it's a GAME, darn it. It ain't real life. It isn't even particularly lifelike. It is a simulation of real life activity, and suffers from a lack of fidelity caused by the limitations I listed above, and others. Could we make it just like WW2? Probably not, but if we all go under military discipline, get a couple year's training, and are willing to never ever get back in the game once we are "killed" the first time, then we can make it more like reality.
That's not what I want from this game. What do you want??
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perk bombs over 100lbs...
rshubert... I am glad that you are proud of your lack of skill.. In any case it is nothing to be ashamed of... I'm not very good myself but... simply proclaiming that you have no talent and are proud to shout it to the world does not negate the fact that you are spoiling the fun of a lot of other players... That is also ok if the talent and effort you put out is somewhat balanced by the effect you have... For your abilities (or lack thereof) you should maybe be able to kill one hanger for every 20 sorties... that would balance out your talent with your effect.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BKs
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What do I want? For the suicide children games to not affect my ability to have fun.
Take this guy and multiply him by 20. How are those of us who fly this thing for the competitive air combat aspect supposed to stop them? Time is on their side. Eventually, no matter what their skill level, a base will get porked.
Agreed this is a game. But the air combat guys are slowly getting excluded. That sux.
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Originally posted by gofaster
What was the plane of choice?
So what is the plane of choice? P51D? P47? P38?
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I completely understand that my way of playing might--just might--inconvenience you. I am sorry, but I prefer my fun to your fun. I do have a suggestion, though. Why not go to the duelling arena?
They have lots of bases there, and you can fly any plane you want. You can find a few like-minded furballers and shoot each other down to your little heart's content. As a bonus, there are very few people there now, and the lag should be minimal.
Is the reason you stay in the MA because it is such a target rich environment? You gotta admit, it's a lot easier to shoot down a heavy slow P38 on an attack run than a light Co-E P38 that's looking for an ACM session. I think that a lot of you "elite fighter pilot types" just LOVE to go after the newbies and ground pounders--it's not as likely to end up with you teleporting back to the tower, and your score looks good.
Some of us enjoy the base taking, bombing, and all that strategic stuff you disdain. It's not necessarily because we aren't as good as you are at the ACM thing. It's because our interests lie in another direction. I get a big time thrill out of evading all the fighters, delivering my ordnance, and (occasionally) getting back to base. Do you see me pissing and moaning about you shooting me down while I'm carrying 3000 pounds of bombs and rockets? You know you don't. Then why not quit whining about my gameplay? You have options. I have options. Let me exercise mine, and I'll let you exercise yours.
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Originally posted by lazs2
simply proclaiming that you have no talent and are proud to shout it to the world does not negate the fact that you are spoiling the fun of a lot of other players...For your abilities (or lack thereof) you should maybe be able to kill one hanger for every 20 sorties
(sigh) Yes, Lazs2, that's about right on the damage/death ratio...
But don't be a jerk. It's not a lack of talent, it's a lack of experience and skill. Talent is God-given, skill can be learned, and experience can be gained. I am learning. And, in my defense, I have to claim that I have never, ever crashed a real world plane--it's too freeking expensive, and real crashes hurt a lot.
But thank you for your totally sincere sympathy. I'll bet your mommy is proud.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I completely understand that my way of playing might--just might--inconvenience you. I am sorry, but I prefer my fun to your fun. I do have a suggestion, though. Why not go to the duelling arena?
They have lots of bases there, and you can fly any plane you want. You can find a few like-minded furballers and shoot each other down to your little heart's content. As a bonus, there are very few people there now, and the lag should be minimal.
Is the reason you stay in the MA because it is such a target rich environment? You gotta admit, it's a lot easier to shoot down a heavy slow P38 on an attack run than a light Co-E P38 that's looking for an ACM session. I think that a lot of you "elite fighter pilot types" just LOVE to go after the newbies and ground pounders--it's not as likely to end up with you teleporting back to the tower, and your score looks good.
Some of us enjoy the base taking, bombing, and all that strategic stuff you disdain. It's not necessarily because we aren't as good as you are at the ACM thing. It's because our interests lie in another direction. I get a big time thrill out of evading all the fighters, delivering my ordnance, and (occasionally) getting back to base. Do you see me pissing and moaning about you shooting me down while I'm carrying 3000 pounds of bombs and rockets? You know you don't. Then why not quit whining about my gameplay? You have options. I have options. Let me exercise mine, and I'll let you exercise yours.
Reading comprehension you're weak point? You're arguing jabo runs. I stated plainly "suicide". There is a difference.
BTW, "end up teleporting back to tower"? Unlike you, I don't hide behind a BBS name with a different ingame name. My stats are there for all who care to peruse. Check before you make careless statements.
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Apache, answer the question. WHY not go to the duelling arena for duelling without soiling your lily-white silk flying scarf with the blood of us strat players???
I don't "hide" my identity. When I signed up I didn't realize that my login name (rshubert) would be my screen name. I like shubie as a nickname (my last name is shubert, and everybody I ever became friends with thought it up independently), and use it as my handle. My first choice for a handle was already taken. Rshubert sounds kind of clunky to me, but every net login I ever had has been rshubert. Since I make my living as a controls engineer and network admin, I have more than enough logins and passwords to remember, so I try to keep the number to a minimum.
Talk about hiding, though...is your real name apache?? Or is that a name you made up for yourself to "hide" your identity from the rest of us?
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And, BTW, Apache, you need to work on your (not "you're") grammar. I read just fine.
You have been teleported back to the tower 20 times this tour, according to the stats. Congratulations. You are a really good simulated fighter pilot. How long have you been doing ACM simulations?
What did you object to in my description? How would you describe the jump from the cockpit (or the ground) back to the tower? I like "teleport", as it seems to be an apt description. Quoting from "How Stuff Works" online magazine: (http://www.howstuffworks.com)
Teleportation involves dematerializing an object at one point, and sending the details of that object's precise atomic configuration to another location, where it will be reconstructed. What this means is that time and space could be eliminated from travel -- we could be transported to any location instantly, without actually crossing a physical distance.
Most of us were introduced to the idea of teleportation, and other futuristic technologies, by the short-lived Star Trek television series (1966-69) based on tales written by Gene Roddenberry. Viewers watched in amazement as Captain Kirk, Spock, Dr. McCoy and others beamed down to the planets they encountered on their journeys through the universe.
'Nuff said?
And, by the way, I'm talking about Jabo runs, too. You need to look at it from my side to understand my post. But, that seem sto be most of the issue--you (as a class) "don't sully the purity of my ACM dance" self-centered furballers are CONSTANTLY whining about every other player type. Why don't I see a lot of whining about the uncooperative furballers?
shubie
"GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING GROUNDS, THOU FURBALLER ELITIST"
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Originally posted by Oedipus
I'm a shrub in real life.
That is
in case anyone needed to know
(p.s. re: "What do I want? For the suicide children games to not affect my ability to have fun." A big DITTO!)
Oedipus:
I have to take the shot, since your name just BEGS for it:
In real life you are a mother****er
Nothing meant by that, but I think it's funny...
What's it like being a shrub? Does it pay well? I've been thinking about a career change.
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now now hubert don't get all hissy on us...
All I am saying is that you should have to show a little more skill if you want to affect the gameplay of so many players... the furballers also affect the gameplay of others but... it is balanced. what you do is make things less fun for whole groups of people and you do it with minimal talent... certainly you see that you should have to earn the right to do so?
I see nothing wrong with perking bombs over 100 lbs... the gv guys have to earn perks to drive uber tanks... us fighter guys have to earn perks to fly uber planes... even the fluffers have to earn perks to flly the uber fluffs so.... why shouldn't you have to show a little skill in order to earn jabo bombs? What makes your fun so much more iomportant than anyone elses? All the other guys have to earn the right to have an unfair advantage.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
now now hubert don't get all hissy on us...
All I am saying is that you should have to show a little more skill if you want to affect the gameplay of so many players... the furballers also affect the gameplay of others but... it is balanced. what you do is make things less fun for whole groups of people and you do it with minimal talent... certainly you see that you should have to earn the right to do so?
I see nothing wrong with perking bombs over 100 lbs... the gv guys have to earn perks to drive uber tanks... us fighter guys have to earn perks to fly uber planes... even the fluffers have to earn perks to flly the uber fluffs so.... why shouldn't you have to show a little skill in order to earn jabo bombs? What makes your fun so much more iomportant than anyone elses? All the other guys have to earn the right to have an unfair advantage.
lazs
Geez, Lazs, if you're going to perk bombs, why not perk bullets and rockets too?
As it stands now, you can take out a fuel dump much more easily with rockets or 20mm cannon fire than you can with bombs.
The solution lies in either adding more fuel bunkers, or toughening them up. And even if you harden them, you're still going to get the B-17 suicide dweebs porking the fuel.
The only fix I can see is adding more fuel bunkers, making them easier to rebuild, as someone else already stated.
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This thread has inspired me to fly nothing but ground attack missions.
Ack-Ack
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so in return for screwing up a group of players fun you want to screw up a different group of players fun...
SHUTUP AND FLY
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Originally posted by vorticon
so in return for screwing up a group of players fun you want to screw up a different group of players fun...
SHUTUP AND FLY
If you think you can, try and stop me. After all, a good DEFCAP is the best way to deter ground attack missions (by ground attack missions, I mean A2G sorties) instead of trying to get HT to code them out of the game.
Personally, I like both the strategic and tactical elements of this game. I like diving down in my P-38L and wiping out any ground target I engage just as much as I enjoy dogfighting. Just like there is a perverse glee in vulching, there's also one in porking a field.
Ack-Ack
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why your replying to my post is beyond me...that was a noninvolved noncommitial thrid party comment...
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Originally posted by rshubert
And, BTW, Apache, you need to work on your (not "you're") grammar. I read just fine.
You have been teleported back to the tower 20 times this tour, according to the stats. Congratulations. You are a really good simulated fighter pilot. How long have you been doing ACM simulations?
What did you object to in my description? How would you describe the jump from the cockpit (or the ground) back to the tower? I like "teleport", as it seems to be an apt description. Quoting from "How Stuff Works" online magazine: (http://www.howstuffworks.com)
Teleportation involves dematerializing an object at one point, and sending the details of that object's precise atomic configuration to another location, where it will be reconstructed. What this means is that time and space could be eliminated from travel -- we could be transported to any location instantly, without actually crossing a physical distance.
Most of us were introduced to the idea of teleportation, and other futuristic technologies, by the short-lived Star Trek television series (1966-69) based on tales written by Gene Roddenberry. Viewers watched in amazement as Captain Kirk, Spock, Dr. McCoy and others beamed down to the planets they encountered on their journeys through the universe.
'Nuff said?
And, by the way, I'm talking about Jabo runs, too. You need to look at it from my side to understand my post. But, that seem sto be most of the issue--you (as a class) "don't sully the purity of my ACM dance" self-centered furballers are CONSTANTLY whining about every other player type. Why don't I see a lot of whining about the uncooperative furballers?
shubie
"GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING GROUNDS, THOU FURBALLER ELITIST"
Now you're (not your) being a dick, but thats to be expected. Can't argue with substance and relevance to the thread so treat this debate as you do the MA, a school yard play ground.
Oh and I don't want to go to the DA.
PS. Its only 16.
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the community as a whole is a bus...its up to you if its a short bus a regular bus or a coach trip bus...
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vorticon... I am all for integration but.... ever since that big "special kids" school closed down all the short buses have been delivering the special kids here to AH.. Some of em aren't too bad but most of em are pretty slow I can't hardly stand the milk breath and fart jokes anymore. all the screaming and crying for attention is gettin gon my nerves I guess.
ack ack... why don't you just play a boxed sim? If building battling is so much fun for you.
Maybe they will revive that other sim?
lazs
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Now who went and pulled herberts talk chain ??
Give him time, dying over and over and over again killing buildings gets old after awhile. He's a couple of months in doing what he can do for the "greater" good..
Another ten thousand sorties and he'll start workin on other stuff.
...THAT won't take long.
Then one day he'll end up in situation fighting for his life, his hair will catch on fire, he'll kill the bastage and enjoy that warm fuzzy feeling that comes from air combat..
Not to mention the satisfaction of landing them..
Won't you ???
Hubert ???
WON'T YOU ???
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Originally posted by lazs2
vorticon... I am all for integration but.... ever since that big "special kids" school closed down all the short buses have been delivering the special kids here to AH.. Some of em aren't too bad but most of em are pretty slow I can't hardly stand the milk breath and fart jokes anymore. all the screaming and crying for attention is gettin gon my nerves I guess.
No offense intended but most of the whiners and dweebs in AH were here long before the AW Exodus. You're a shining example.
ack ack... why don't you just play a boxed sim? If building battling is so much fun for you.[/b]
Why? Because I like both the strategic and dogfighting elements in the game?
I've been playing online flight sims for 10 years now and I've come to realize in that time that people will always play how they like to play. Some people like to run ground attack sorties, some like just to dogfight all day and some like myself enjoy doing both. With either playing styles, the common thing is that all groups want to have fun. You on the other hand want to curtail that fun for a certain segment of the player base and that is far more dweebish than someone doing a Pork 'N Auger run.
Here's also a bop on the head with the Clue-stick. If you want to stop attacks on your base, then why not try defending it? DEFCAP works wonders and so does a good counter-attack.
Maybe they will revive that other sim?
lazs [/B]
God, I hope not.
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Originally posted by Apache
His:
Bailed: 252
Mine:
Bailed: 0
Looks like you are the suicide dweeb.
Why aren't you trying harder to live by being a bail-out dweeb?
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Originally posted by Apache
Reading comprehension you're weak point? You're arguing jabo runs. I stated plainly "suicide". There is a difference.
Spelling yours?
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Originally posted by lazs2
vorticon... I am all for integration but.... ever since that big "special kids" school closed down all the short buses have been delivering the special kids here to AH.. Some of em aren't too bad but most of em are pretty slow I can't hardly stand the milk breath and fart jokes anymore. all the screaming and crying for attention is gettin gon my nerves I guess.
ack ack... why don't you just play a boxed sim? If building battling is so much fun for you.
Maybe they will revive that other sim?
lazs
Hey laz.. your a self absorbed fool.
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Originally posted by Apache
... Can't argue with substance and relevance to the thread so treat this debate as you do the MA, a school yard play ground.
Oh and I don't want to go to the DA.
PS. Its only 16.
Sorry about the long delay in responding, I was busy getting shot down.
You can quibble about the numbers, but ditching, bailing, and getting captured would all be career-ending in the real world, and are penalized in perk point awards here. Twenty times you have gone up and not come back with an airplane. Them's the facts, jack.
I looked at your stats again, and noticed that you haven't flown a single attack mission this tour. Only 1 bomber mission (you ditched and didn't bomb anything) and 4 vehicle sorties. It looks to me like we aren't even playing the same game. I submit that your stats would look a lot more like a "suicide child's" stats if you flew down into the ack once in a while.
The robo-ack is absolutely freekin' DEADLY. P38s are very maneuverable and fast when light, but turn into flying bricks when heavy. The same is true for all the jabos. A moment's inattention and somebody in a spit is all over you (yes, cdog, I'm talking about you : ). Let's not even mention that whole compressibility thing! This stuff ain't that easy. I would bet, and see from some of the posts about how bored I will become if I continue to attack strat, that you never got very good at it, and decided that it was a losing proposition. That attitude has been described as one lacking in persistence. Do you often find yourself becoming frustrated, and "giving up"? Have you ever been diagnosed as suffering from Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder?
If you look in the online help for the game under "Aces High Game Play", they list two categories--strategic targets and capturing fields. No entry for furballing. The game is designed as a team effort to capture territory and win points. Is furballing ok? Heck, yes. Is bombing ok? Why, sure. Should someone spend time in tank town? Go for it, it's a free virtual community.
Apache, I notice that the first insulting post in this thread came from you. It is typical for someone on the short end of the facts stick in an argument to take it to a personal level, rather than try to argue the issue. This is usually followed by accusations of doing just that against the other parties when they react to the combative language. I hear nothing from you except "you shouldn't do that because I don't like it". Those that are on my side of this discussion are putting forward an argument that we are within our rights to play the game the way we want to, and trying to present you with facts to back it up. I say again, GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING GROUNDS if you don't like the way things work in the MA. Those of us that DO like the way things work in the MA will miss you, but we'll get over it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
now now hubert don't get all hissy on us...
All I am saying is that you should have to show a little more skill if you want to affect the gameplay of so many players... the furballers also affect the gameplay of others but... it is balanced. what you do is make things less fun for whole groups of people and you do it with minimal talent... certainly you see that you should have to earn the right to do so?
I see nothing wrong with perking bombs over 100 lbs... the gv guys have to earn perks to drive uber tanks... us fighter guys have to earn perks to fly uber planes... even the fluffers have to earn perks to flly the uber fluffs so.... why shouldn't you have to show a little skill in order to earn jabo bombs? What makes your fun so much more iomportant than anyone elses? All the other guys have to earn the right to have an unfair advantage.
lazs
Again with the put-downs, Less? You could, you know, stop me. It happens ALL THE TIME. Try defending the base. Get smart, do it from somewhere else other than right over it. If you intercept me on the way in, I will drop my ordnance in the water. Base not porked. You get a kill. I get the learning experience of trying to fend you off. Everybody has fun.
How is it "balanced", Less? Furballers affect my gameplay when they come out of the furball and intercept me. I don't get to drop my bombs and earn my perk points. I think that statement is absolute BS.
Why should I need to "earn" the right to play with bombs? Don't I pay my money for the right to play the game, just like you? Some planes and tanks are perked because they have perfomance that is much superior to the rest of the stable. That's what Hitech says in writing in the help files. No weapon is perked-- and don't try to pick that statement apart by saying that a plane is a weapon. You know what I mean. I think a better idea is to make you fly nothing but hurricane Is. That would even out the skill mismatch, and maybe I would survive more often. (disclaimer: the previous statement is a use of the concept of irony, in order to make a point. I don't want you to be limited in your gameplay in any way)
My fun is more important to me than your fun is. I can safely assume the reverse is true, since you are so passionate about your argument. If you want to know the truth, I don't care if you have fun. Not being rude, just stating the way the world is.
What "unfair advantage" do I have when I'm in a heavy fighter, and you're in a light one? Does carrying a bomb somehow make me invincible, or invisible, or faster, or more maneuverable? Of course not.
By the way, oh Fighter Pilot Elite, what were you doing in that ack gun on the carrier? That certainly doesn't sound like the pure sport of jousting with the other Knights of the Air. Can you say "disingenuos"? Sure, I knew you could. I hope you enjoyed the prox kill I provided for you when I augered. One of these days, I'll figure out this whole virtual pilot thing...;) The other time you shot me down was legit.
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Originally posted by rshubert
but we need to remember that it's a GAME, darn it. It ain't real life.
but we need to remember it's just a Bulletin Board where people express their opinions , darn it. It ain't real life.
Stop trying to limit what players think of the game.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I completely understand that my way of playing might--just might--inconvenience you. I am sorry, but I prefer my fun to your fun.
... a true product of the "ME" generation. Laz and you really would get a long great were it not for the fact that at least he tries to put a little "sim" into the game.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Again with the put-downs, Less? You could, you know, stop me. It happens ALL THE TIME. Try defending the base.
Easily said from a self-proclaimed suicide dweeb.
Whether a furballdork or a Stratdork... at least they each have valid arguments. Proclaiming yourself a "suicide dweeb" and being proud of it is nothing more than plain and simple stupidity. "Suicide dweebs" do one thing.. take quality away from the game. HTC has in the past made a few minor changes to stop the "suicide dweeb" idiocy... however they, as long as the price for AH stays low, will always figure out how to muck up the game and go about it laughing and clapping like a bunch of mindless retards. There's nothing like having $15 bucks to burn on screwing a large majority of others gameplay is there? Well, if thats what rocks your boat.. more power too ya. We all know you'll be long gone years after the rest of us (who as a matter of fact probably despise each other much more than you'll ever be able to comprehend) will still be arguing and bickering over real "simulation" issues.
Rock on knucklhead, keep killin yourself in the name of "ME".
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Originally posted by rshubert
Sorry about the long delay in responding, I was busy getting shot down.
You can quibble about the numbers, but ditching, bailing, and getting captured would all be career-ending in the real world, and are penalized in perk point awards here. Twenty times you have gone up and not come back with an airplane. Them's the facts, jack.
I looked at your stats again, and noticed that you haven't flown a single attack mission this tour. Only 1 bomber mission (you ditched and didn't bomb anything) and 4 vehicle sorties. It looks to me like we aren't even playing the same game. I submit that your stats would look a lot more like a "suicide child's" stats if you flew down into the ack once in a while.
The robo-ack is absolutely freekin' DEADLY. P38s are very maneuverable and fast when light, but turn into flying bricks when heavy. The same is true for all the jabos. A moment's inattention and somebody in a spit is all over you (yes, cdog, I'm talking about you : ). Let's not even mention that whole compressibility thing! This stuff ain't that easy. I would bet, and see from some of the posts about how bored I will become if I continue to attack strat, that you never got very good at it, and decided that it was a losing proposition. That attitude has been described as one lacking in persistence. Do you often find yourself becoming frustrated, and "giving up"? Have you ever been diagnosed as suffering from Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder?
If you look in the online help for the game under "Aces High Game Play", they list two categories--strategic targets and capturing fields. No entry for furballing. The game is designed as a team effort to capture territory and win points. Is furballing ok? Heck, yes. Is bombing ok? Why, sure. Should someone spend time in tank town? Go for it, it's a free virtual community.
Apache, I notice that the first insulting post in this thread came from you. It is typical for someone on the short end of the facts stick in an argument to take it to a personal level, rather than try to argue the issue. This is usually followed by accusations of doing just that against the other parties when they react to the combative language. I hear nothing from you except "you shouldn't do that because I don't like it". Those that are on my side of this discussion are putting forward an argument that we are within our rights to play the game the way we want to, and trying to present you with facts to back it up. I say again, GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING GROUNDS if you don't like the way things work in the MA. Those of us that DO like the way things work in the MA will miss you, but we'll get over it.
Let me begin my response with this...you are correct. I began the personal attack. My apologies.
Thanks for making my point in your 20 (where are you getting that number) sorties comment.
No, I haven't flown any attack missions, however, you don't know my history here or in WB. I used to attack/jabo alot. Was pretty good at it too. One of the best attack squads in this game is the VMF323 Death Rattlers, CO Ripsnort. He started that squad with a pretty good XO...wonder who that was?
I will NOT go to the DA. I will not allow this gamey crap to take AH from me. Don't misunderstand my position. If you want to do attack sorties, I'm all for it. Field attacks promote fights IMO, thats what the "strat" model was put in for. What is total BS is the aforementioned (no it's not you) individual and his ilk who are ruining this game, which used to be about AtoA combat and the competition it provided.
Besides, fighting 3 or 4, ala the DA isn't my cup of tea. Dukeing it out in a cloud of bandits is more to my likeing.
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well... we understand each other... we both want to have fun in the game. We are both advocating ways that we have a way to do so. I am not saying that you can't kill buildings... I am just saying that if you want to affect my fun by doing so then you should have to work harder at it... Truth is... that is the way that it will probly go... everyone is sick of the suicide dweeb... it is a bug right now... it will be modified so that it is not so easy or so that it has less effect. go ahead and lobby for an A bomb tho... maybe you will get it.
I don't think some of you get it.. it is NO FUN to stop jabos... who wants the boring job of killing these talentless dweebs? I did it for a few days... I got into tempests and yaks and 51b's and went up and after the high alt jabo and suicide dweebs and furball edge hangers..
It wansn't any fun... it took forever to get up there and when I did get to them... they died so easily that the worst furball I have ever been in had guys with at least twice the talent in it. Most just ran the second they realized that they no longer had an overwhelming advantage.... they died running but... it took half a sector... boring as hell.
A guy could lose his edge wasting his time with these guys.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
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Originally posted by Otter
Spelling yours?
Converstation over your head? This debate isn't English 101. Take a hop on over to the NEA sites. I'm sure you might find what you're (that better?) looking for.
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Looks like you are the suicide dweeb.
Why aren't you trying harder to live by being a bail-out dweeb?
You should think before you type. Your first sentence contradicts the second.
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Just out of curiosity I decided to grade the postings of this thread :
Note: these rankings are based on a scale of 0 to 10 {10 being the highest, of course} and in actuality have no real meaning in this virtual thread.....
Shubie
1. WITTY RESPONSES 9.7
2. USE OF STATISTICS 7.0
3. ARTISTIC FLAIR 8.9
4. SPELLING 10
5. PUNCTUATION 9.6
6. LAG 8.0
7. CONTENT 8.3
8. DISMOUNT 9.4
TOTAL 70.9
Apache
1. WITTY RESPONSES 8.0
2. USE OF STATISTICS 9.3
3. ARTISTIC FLAIR 5.4
4. SPELLING 10
5. PUNCTUATION 8.5
6. LAG 8.0
7. CONTENT 7.9
8. DISMOUNT 9.0
TOTAL 66.1
Overall..it appears that Shubie is leading after the first 8 rounds.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Easily said from a self-proclaimed suicide dweeb.
Whether a furballdork or a Stratdork... at least they each have valid arguments. Proclaiming yourself a "suicide dweeb" and being proud of it is nothing more than plain and simple stupidity. "Suicide dweebs" do one thing.. take quality away from the game. HTC has in the past made a few minor changes to stop the "suicide dweeb" idiocy... however they, as long as the price for AH stays low, will always figure out how to muck up the game and go about it laughing and clapping like a bunch of mindless retards. There's nothing like having $15 bucks to burn on screwing a large majority of others gameplay is there? Well, if thats what rocks your boat.. more power too ya. We all know you'll be long gone years after the rest of us (who as a matter of fact probably despise each other much more than you'll ever be able to comprehend) will still be arguing and bickering over real "simulation" issues.
Rock on knucklhead, keep killin yourself in the name of "ME".
how do the "suicide dweebs" ruin gameplay for others...there simply following the objective of the game in the most effective way possible...trash the base you want so they cant defend then remove the town then roll in the c47...yeah sure it could work faster with a heavy bomber but since there so slow and the only 1 that makes the time put into it worth it is the lancaster there just gonna use fighters
the most effective way to stop it would be to either
a: reduce power of rockets and get all you historicly accurate people mad
or
b: have skuzzy spend all of 5 seconds changing the hardness of fuel,hangers, etc...
of course the term suicide dweeb could be used to define a furballer...going into a fight against impossible odds KNOWING they will die but at least they'll kill a few guys with it...
the word dweeb is over used...and frankly its getting as pathetic as people calling themselves "1337 h4}{()R |)()()|)$"
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Originally posted by Apache
You should think before you type. Your first sentence contradicts the second.
I guess it all depends on how you define "death" now doesn't it?
-Sik
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There are good jabo pilots here. You rarely see them.
They'll come in from above make their run, blow up there target and do one of two things. If the action is thick at different altitudes they'll pull out on the deck screamin and leave for another load. Or..
If opposition is light or all at low altitude, they'll stay and kill a few keeping the speed up, then put there a/c in a zero G dive...and leave for another load.
That would tend to set ones hair on fire. I'm a big fan of that..
Good jabo pilots are frustrating, my hat's off to them.
But what you see the vast majority of times is the dive for the first drop, the reverse for the second, the reverse for the third and be taken apart by seven or eight or face plant..
Or a face plant on the first pass ( most of the time )
I would think there would be an effort to improve. But hey, what do I know.
It just may be being able to say over vox, "I took out blah blah AND blah" to his countrymen while his face is firmly planted in terra firma..
His contribution to the "greater" good of the war, HIS COUNTRY !!
It's a problem. Hi Tech had a thread a few months back asking for suggestions on how to manage it. Good thread, good responses.
If Hi Tech is asking, I have no doubt some sort of solution to the suicide dweeb is in the works.
What a shame, taking away a suicide dweebs fun...
Where's the justice in it I ask ??
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Apache - I completely agree with something you said earlier - to such an extent that I've put it in my sig! Now would you be so kind as to explain this thing to Lazs and Nopoop. :)
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Gee Beet1e you went and hurt my feelings..
Do you disagree with my thoughts on this subject ?? Pretty even handed if I do say myself.
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Nopoop!!! Come towards the light. And bring Lazs with you. :D
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Originally posted by vorticon
how do the "suicide dweebs" ruin gameplay for others...
Easy.. this is a "flight sim". If you don't get it by now, you never will. It's not about historical accuracy, it's about various forms of combat simulation.
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Originally posted by Apache
You should think before you type. Your first sentence contradicts the second.
No, you're stuck being a dweeb either way if you start threads like this.
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As a JABO and troop carrier type, I have to admit that I am just not as good an ACM fighter jock as I would like to be. Sometimes I do it for base defense - rarely, for an extended fighter sweep. Since I belong to a squad, we tend to work together quite a bit on the strategic part of the game which means - winning the reset, which means - taking bases.
I don't intentionally suicide planes when JABOing but the fact is, I get shot down quite a bit by "elite" pilots who are flying Spit 5's and La7's to protect their base. I don't fault them for this, they are trying to defend their AF after all and they are using their favorite tool to do so. I will also point out that good squads require a lot of discipline to ignore easy shots at lumbering enemy fighters when coming in for JABO runs. The mission is uttermost when flying with a squad and there is, really, nothing more satisfying than killing all FH's and VH in one pass on a large base (unless it's sinking the entire enemy TG in one pass).
I notice that players from all 3 countries can often be found flying in large groups to enemy AF's and doing nothing but vulching - no bombs, no town attacks.... just running up vulch scores on planes taking off. Nothing drives a strat-oriented squad crazy faster than seeing a bunch of point-who#es fly all that way to a base to do nothing more than club baby seals. Some fellow countrymen have even complained about having their "vulch" base shut down --- LOL !!
It would be really interesting to have a fair and full accounting of how ACM fighter jocks actually arrive at their scores. Part of it can be revealed by which planes they fly the most - but the other part about whether they are flying against co-E opponents vs. strafing runways with a large supporting team is the part we can't seem to determine through the "stats".
That being said, maybe it would be nice to have a non-reset-oriented arena where pilots just fly fighter sweeps.... but there is still a problem there. What about wingman tactics and just plain old unequal numbers getting in the way of "pure" combat... DOH ! we've come full circle again. Is there really any good way to measure the greatness of any individual pilot except in 1 vs 1 duels or King of the Hill FFA's ? I guess not...
I guess that's why HiTech has already provided a dueling arena and a King of the Hill contest separate from the MA.
:D
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Originally posted by Montezuma
No, you're stuck being a dweeb either way if you start threads like this.
You forgot to end you post with "nanny nanny boo boo".
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....and I got cable for this?
Think of all the nice shrubs I coulda planted...:(
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Originally posted by Apache
You forgot to end you post with "nanny nanny boo boo".
LOL
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Originally posted by Hyrax81st
I don't intentionally suicide planes when JABOing but the fact is, I get shot down quite a bit by "elite" pilots who are flying Spit 5's and La7's to protect their base.
Which brings up another point. A lot that are being branded 'suicide dweebs' are the ones like you. The ones that don't have any intention of dying but unfortunately things don't go as planned and you're killed during your attack run. Just because you died as you were bombing, you called branded a 'suicide dweeb'. Last night attacking A19, I was making my dive run on the town and as I pickled off my two 1,000 pounders, the town ack got lucky and took off my port wing, which then pretty much turned my P-38L into a lawn dart. Before I crashed though, I fired off my 10 rockets and destroyed some more buildings in the town before my plane and I left a crater. Afterwards some Rookie at A19 started calling me a 'suicide dweeb' because of it.
Ack-Ack
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One guy makes my point, and throws it against me. I am not trying to limit you, sax. You're trying to make up rules of conduct in order to limit me. Get it?
I am a little bit older than the "me" generation. I come from the "get stoned and leave everybody else alone" generation, but I got over the stoned part years ago... (sigh)
Less, you need to go look in the mirror, and find out what kind of person is looking back out at you. What kind of inferiority complex are you running, there?? Only somebody with that kind of complex gets off on running other people down like you do. Please grow up, or get some counseling. It will be better for you in the long run.
I can't believe how far you people are taking this argument. But, it always boils down to (1) People should "earn" the right to play with you, or (2) People who don't agree with you are losers. And you DARE to imply that I am too self-centered? Get a grip.
And, less, if it's such a waste of your immense talents to shoot down jabos, might I suggest that you GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING ARENA and not dirty yourself with lowlives like me??
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Well shrubert we're of the same generation, though I prolly have a couple of years on you.
I guess the question that puzzles me is what exactly are you trying to get from this game.
From reading your posts ( removing the arguements ) I see you like to blow stuff up and don't care if you live because your learning the ACM thing.
Whether it's ACM or Jabo, taking the time to "learn" it is it's own reward. Pay your dues. If you haven't learned alittle something from every sortie and attempted to apply it to your next, it all comes back to what are you trying to get from this game ?
One thing in common with all greybeards whether they are "War winners" "Jabo jockies" or "fighters" is the premise to land.
Trying to live adds tremendously to the experience. Yes we hang it out there, catch our hair on fire, but the runway is the goal. We don't always make it home granted.
To live is your choice. If you choose to live, and work on it, it really is so much more fun than "I don't care if I die "
As an experiment fly 10 sorties in a row and land them all. Do your jabo as you enjoy but land all 10. It will give you a different perspective on things.
You can Quake it here as you've learned.
Quaking it puts the greybeards panties in a bunch..
You've started a fire and don't even know why..
You should.
Remember 10 sorties and get back to me.
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My scores improve. I land more often. The whole point of my original post was to show Apache that he was being a bit of a jerk. I got responses from lots of other people that agree with him, and some others that agree with me.
See my post where I discuss the BORING aspect of training. I don't want to spend two man-years learning to fly one class of plane. That's what real military pilots do and did back in the day. I want to have fun. I figure I will learn along the way. My squadmates are helping me. As the commissioner in the Pink Panther movies said, "Every day in every way I'm getting better and better." Of course, he turned into a homicidal maniac in a strait jacket. I hope I don't end up like that.
Yes, I prefer to land my missions. Don't we all? I still make beginner mistakes, though. Sometimes I screw myself up, sometimes I get screwed up by somebody else. I do things I shouldn't do, and don't yet know why they are a bad idea.
An example: Today I worked my butt off to shoot down an F4F in a spit 9. I chased him forever, from about 5 k back. I finally got him, after he pulled 3 ho passes on me. Ten seconds later, my engine quit--out of gas. DOH. I forgot to look at the fuel guage, since the field only had 25% fuel and I'd been up a long time. I ditched. Perk points deducted. Sigh. Another beginner mistake.
How 'bout some pointers, things to do rather than what I should not do. How do you bomb a carrier and survive every time? How do you take out the ack on a field and never get any damage? When you're intercepted in a jabo, how do you disengage? The way you guys talk, it must be possible. You certainly think less of my skills because I can't do it every time.
I think you people are taking a very narrow view of how the game can and should be played. You take no risks, because your skill level at ACM and your desire to keep a high score is overriding any other gameplay consideration. You let others be your bait. You think that your way of playing is "right" and "superior". I don't.
It seems that those on your side have decided to concentrate on my score as the point of the whole discussion. It's not. It's about gameplay, and how we each play the game our own way. Don't like the way I play?? Shoot me down. Teach me a lesson I will not soon forget.
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nanny nanny boo boo... i can jabo better than you do...
but.... i've (d)evolved back into a hair in fire semi-furball dweeb where acm is the thing... at least for this tour and a few tours back....
and if you really feel the need to sniff my butt.... you can check around tours 20-30.
it's just a phase poepl go thru... some evolve, some are just evolutionary dead ends.
landing's over-rated anyway.
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Hehe
(http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid59/pdb6b96b8047e1d24ce0d7dc8e127da6d/fc5ac33c.jpg)
See what happens when you give up the copyright ??
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While I don't think of myself as a suicide dweeb, and try to land my kills, I have to tip my hat to Rshubert on this.
Many people have derided me because they think I'm whining for them to play MY way. This derision usually takes the form of pointing out that it's a GAME and I should not be like a Generalissimo trying to limit people's choices by telling them how to fly, which I don't anyway. But, but, b-b-b-but....
...When boot's on t'other foot, and instead of my game being porked by something I don't like, one of the free-for-all-fragfest-unlimited-choice-it's-my-$14.95 furballers is seeing his game ruined, he comes up with a fatuous suggestion that someone like Rshubert should "earn the right" to spoil someone else's fun, or that his powers to ruin someone else's fun should be commensurate with the amount of talent required to do it!
BS I say. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, and the furball dweebs are going to have to live with it.
Rshubert. More power to your elbow. ;)
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Spunds like sombody needs AH2 "Tour of Duty" and bad.
Really this is another "Stop your fun and do it my way" posts.
The way I see it, if you want to sit on the end of the field in an M3 for fun do it, after all your 15 bucks gives you the right to have YOUR fun not control someone elses fun.
I don't like a lot of things in this game (things that players do) but guess what, they have the right to have fun in what ever way they want to.
I am really getting sick of the anti Dweeb posts. AH needs Dweebs to continue its busness (yes it is a busness!)growth.
Why don't you invite the suicide dweebs into you sq. and teach them the meaning of life according to you,.... what don't want to do that? Then quit ya squeaking and play your game.
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The point remains.... any jabo... suicide or not should not be able to affect so many other players with so little skill... jabo all you want... I think it is stupid in a game that offers the interesting and diverse acm fights but.. do it till you figure it out... No, I am not trying to limit your choice to jabo... just your effect.
It appears that rather that going to some dueling arena (whatever that is) that some chantges in the destruction/resupply may take place that limit the overall effect on other players.
Here is the big secret in AH.... the country with the largest numbers wins... it doesnt matter a whit how many times you go back and forth to kill one fuel or hanger... do it all nite like the lemming you are.... in the end... your effort is meaningless... totally meaningless.... if your country has the numbers, the sheer weight of em will steamroller the win... if not... the one with the numbers will steamroller you.
some of us have figured this out and prefer to fight real people other than waste our time building battling.
Here is another AH factoid...if you aren't very good.... building battleing will keep you that way. You have to risk ego and actually engage other players if you want to learn to fight other players.... come towards the light.
lazs
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scooter... no... don't want them in my squad... and, I have found that sometimes ... if something is really unbalanced and is pointed out... it gets fixed. I am not so much trying to change their behavior as to point out bugs in the game and hopefully get a fix... for some... the bug is their game tho.
Till then... it never hurts to hold these guys up to public ridicule. I believe that some of em even think that they are "helping" in their own pitiful way.
lazs
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Originally posted by Apache
What do I want? For the suicide children games to not affect my ability to have fun.
that's all it takes to put the ky-bosh on your fun??
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Yep hap... hard to believe that one little turd floating in a pool can ruin some peoples fun eh?
lazs
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you guys that die to ack while dropping bombs know that if you drop them from higher up, you can pretty much not get hit by the ack, right?
also, rshubert, you shouldn't be compressing while dive bombing. If you're having problems with that, I suggest trying the P-38 and use the dive flaps, or grab a Corsair, and throw out your landing gear before you make your dive (hog gear will act as dive brakes, and can withstand up to about 350mph, IIRC.) I can't remember if the P-47D-30 has dive brakes, but if you trim her right, she can haul bellybutton without compressing. :)
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Originally posted by Hap
that's all it takes to put the ky-bosh on your fun??
Nope, albeit, it does seem to get my dander up more than most things.
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Lazs. You're still holding on to your mistaken belief that building battlers do just that, and nothing else. It isn't true! That's not how it is. I'm 49k/4d in the F4U-1C at the time of writing. How do you think that happened then? Forget the notion of building battlers doing nothing else but (unless the opposition chooses not to defend). It's a simple step - Apache will help you: Come towards the light.
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or just run your mindless tiffy raid...those things dont compress...ever...ive had one really shaking and still reacting relatively well...
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Originally posted by beet1e
Lazs. You're still holding on to your mistaken belief that building battlers do just that, and nothing else. It isn't true! That's not how it is. I'm 49k/4d in the F4U-1C at the time of writing. How do you think that happened then? Forget the notion of building battlers doing nothing else but (unless the opposition chooses not to defend). It's a simple step - Apache will help you: Come towards the light.
Beet1e, to save you some effort. Attempting to drive a wedge between lazs and myself is fruitless. He and I have been and will continue to be friends. We don't agree on everything... we don't have too.
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Originally posted by Apache
Beet1e, to save you some effort. Attempting to drive a wedge between lazs and myself is fruitless. He and I have been and will continue to be friends. We don't agree on everything... we don't have too.
Sorry you took it that way. That was not my intention at all. I've known Lazs myself since 1998 - WB. We've argued about different playing styles, but as Nopoop has already pointed out, we're not mutually exclusive. Thought Lazs might listen to you more readily than he might listen to me. That is all.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Sorry you took it that way. That was not my intention at all. I've known Lazs myself since 1998 - WB. We've argued about different playing styles, but as Nopoop has already pointed out, we're not mutually exclusive. Thought Lazs might listen to you more readily than he might listen to me. That is all.
My apologies for misunderstanding.
BTW, I was a WB'er too, just not as popular as youse guys, lol.
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That looks like a MAW stats page if you ask me...LOL:p
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Less wrote:
Here is the big secret in AH.... the country with the largest numbers wins... it doesnt matter a whit how many times you go back and forth to kill one fuel or hanger... do it all nite like the lemming you are.... in the end... your effort is meaningless... totally meaningless.... if your country has the numbers, the sheer weight of em will steamroller the win... if not... the one with the numbers will steamroller you.
Less, here's the REAL big secret of AH. NONE of it means anything. It's a game. It's a GAME. IT'S A FREEKING GAME. Sure the big side wins. That's the way it goes, and I have no problem with it. I was steamrollered last night, but had fun anyway. Did you? Or did you piss and moan about the dweebs ruining your fun, again? Are you taking AH too seriously, and maybe a short hiatus would make you feel better?
Have you always had problems interrelating with others? Were you, by some chance, ever home schooled because you were considered "too disruptive" to be with the other children?
Who, precisely, are you calling a 'turd'? Do you hate other people so much that you feel that you can insult with impunity? You seem very agressive on the message boards in general. Perhaps you should re-think your way of communicating to other people. There's a little word--respect--that has a lot of power. Show some, and you will get back more than you give.
Remember, Less. Words mean stuff. Use perjoratives with caution, lest you get them returned to you some day with interest. Be polite, make your point, but don't run other people into the mud. That is a bad debating tactic, and shows that your argument has no substance.
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Thanks, Nifty. I actually got the compression thing figured out a couple of weeks ago. I was using the dive flaps, but pushing over too fast and compressing anyway. That darned P38 will compress with the dive flaps extended in the game, which is a modeling error, as near as I can tell. I now turn off the darned combat trim and dial in nose-up, too. It seems to make it better. With my increasing skill in getting on target, I don't need to hold the dive so long, and that also helps.
I have also discovered that I was not extending far enough before turning back for the second pass. Now I take her out far enough to get clear of all the spittys and lalas, and again, I survive more often. I still have a tendency to make one too many pass, and try to get just one more strat. Oh, well, I guess I will learn. It is very tempting to try to shoot down one of those guys defending the field strat from 50 feet above it. What are they thinking?
Yes, if you drop higher you can get away more often. The other side of that one is accuracy suffers. There's always a trade-off. Oh, well.
I really think the answer is to work with a team, so the ack is diluted and you can support each other's efforts. Less would call that a "herd of suicide dweebs overwhelming the field to ruin his fun". I would call that team play and a real gas.
I wonder how many WW2 fighter pilots did the AH "dawn patrol" gig these furballers are so in love with? Gabreski, Johnson, Foss, et. al. flew as a disciplined group with a mission. I really think that the strat game is much more representative of the real WW2 than the furball game. That's just my opinion, though. I suppose that the Elite Furballers Association gets more fun out of shooting people down, then insulting them on channel 1, than I get from achieving a transitory goal. I hope so, because they sure seem miserable when they complain about my gameplay.
I'll bet Less and Apache never join missions. Come to think of it, I don't think I would want them in one I am on, they can't be depended on to maintain focus long enough to get the job done. They'd run off to cherry pick the first low contact they came across, and biotch continuosly about how the other players aren't doing it right.
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I like HT's old suggestion to delay the explosion a few seconds after the bombs hit, and if the bomber dies before those seconds are up, then the bombs don't work. 5 seconds would be good enough to stop the CV kamikazes.
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:)
Great posts, Rshubert! I couldn't have said it better myself. Interesting to see the furball dweebs tackled from the other side. However, I think Apache is a breed apart from the other furball dweebs. He sees the need for strat, and an RPS. :eek: Lots of people feel that an RPS would limit choices, when the reality is that choices are limited by not having one. After all, you're not going to survive in a Spit1a/Hurri1 etc. against P51/LA7/190, so those early planes are sidelined.
I lay awake this morning, wondering what this thread would hold for me. I wasn't disappointed. :D
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Hey rshubert as far as I've been told (and experienced) the so-called 'dive flaps' on the 38 in AH aren't what you'd normally think of as dive flaps. They don't slow your dive but if your speed gets too high you can use them to help pull you out of a dive. In other words they help bring your nose up a little and that's it. Hope this helps...
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Originally posted by rshubert
That darned P38 will compress with the dive flaps extended in the game, which is a modeling error, as near as I can tell.
Nope not a modelling error, more like pilot error.
One tip, in the P-38 never use combat trim. It's ineffective and will cause more problems than it solves and will cause the dive flaps to be ineffective when deployed since the combat trim will compensate for the increased lift generated by the dive flaps.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by CDOG
Just out of curiosity I decided to grade the postings of this thread :
Note: these rankings are based on a scale of 0 to 10 {10 being the highest, of course} and in actuality have no real meaning in this virtual thread.....
Shubie
1. WITTY RESPONSES 9.7
2. USE OF STATISTICS 7.0
3. ARTISTIC FLAIR 8.9
4. SPELLING 10
5. PUNCTUATION 9.6
6. LAG 8.0
7. CONTENT 8.3
8. DISMOUNT 9.4
TOTAL 70.9
Apache
1. WITTY RESPONSES 8.0
2. USE OF STATISTICS 9.3
3. ARTISTIC FLAIR 5.4
4. SPELLING 10
5. PUNCTUATION 8.5
6. LAG 8.0
7. CONTENT 7.9
8. DISMOUNT 9.0
TOTAL 66.1
Overall..it appears that Shubie is leading after the first 8 rounds.
Now this is truely funny. Thanks CDOG - I laughed 5 min. Thanks.
PS this is not irony, I am serious - it is funny
Always nice to have a laugh.
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On the more productive side:
Sounds like sombody needs AH2 "Tour of Duty" and bad.
Really this is another "Stop your fun and do it my way" posts.
The way I see it, if you want to sit on the end of the field in an M3 for fun do it, after all your 15 bucks gives you the right to have YOUR fun not control someone elses fun.
I don't like a lot of things in this game (things that players do) but guess what, they have the right to have fun in what ever way they want to.
I am really getting sick of the anti Dweeb posts. AH needs Dweebs to continue its busness (yes it is a busness!)growth.
Why don't you invite the suicide dweebs into you sq. and teach them the meaning of life according to you,.... what don't want to do that? Then quit ya squeaking and play your game.
__________________
Lt. Scott (Scootter) Davis
56th FG Zemke's Wolfpack
I agree.
I think that AHII is what some of the players like Apache are looking for.
I myself are looking forward to AHII. I am not looking for fun in this game - I am looking for excitment. I am looking for something close to "being there" myself.
People can fly however they like i the MA, and do what ever they like - no doubt about that. I tend to try not to die - which I do very bad by the way, (died some 130 time out off 230 sorties) but I am learning too.
Everybody cannot be made happy in the MA, but I think that AHII will provide a game that meets my wiches more than AHI.
Let me insure you that I still like to fly in the MA very much, and sometime I do fly "suicide" missions. Like upping to the vulches.
But to show you what I like, let me tell you about my best mission to date:
It was a day when LLv34 flew a snapshot at the Finnish map. I flew a JU-88 to bomb a convoy. Nothing happen action-wise: no intercepters attacked me, my VOX didn't work and I hit nothing with my bombs, but still I had this terrific feeling afterwards.
Why?
Cuz what I had just flow, had resembled what I imagine being a WWII pilot was like: The joy at the redevous with the fighter escort, the confident feeling looking out the window at my fellow pilots, the relief of finding our target, the nervous tick in the eye when we met the interceptors, the shaky hand at bomb release, the disapointment in seeing them miss, the horror of seeing my bomber comrades being shot down by fighters and AAA, knowing that I could be next, and the thrill of returning succesfully to base - alive. All this set in a historic theater. That is what I like. My point is that, the thrill of uncertainty and the fear for my "life" is a great part of the game for me, and hopfully we will see more of that in AH2.
But untill then: I will gladly settle for AHI. Knowing that everybody can fly as he or her like. It is a fantastic game.
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rshubert,
You are mis-understanding my position. You continue to refer to wingman tactics, missions, jabo techniques, etc. Thats not my point at all.
Allow me to attempt to illustrate.
Beet1e is in a heavy hog, on his way to jabo my field. He see's me coming for him. You know what beet1e will do? Depending on his position relative to me, to his target and a myriad of other factors, he will either nose down and attempt his jabo run, then come back up to defend himself or he will dump his ord and the fight is on. I will play with this type of virtual pilot all day long.
The suicide dweeb on the other hand will roll over and dive to the target, full speed, no matter the circumstances... and splatter himself all over the tarmac. He will continue this over and over and over. He and his ilk will rinse and repeat until eventually they have completely and totally destroyed a field, not taking into consideration that they want to use said field after capture. Do you believe they think about that? Nope. They just want to see stuff blow up. That not only limits my enjoyment in the game, but for thier own country mates as well. IMO of course.
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relax hunbert it's a BBS... a freaking BBS! Here is another of the big AH secrets for you... I am gonna let the cat out of the bag and save you a couple of months... maybe years...
The strat is a hamster wheel.. it is boring and simplistic and if you never had any flight sim skill... you will never get any doing the buildning battling thing... if you ever had any it will atrophy if you do the building battling thing.
I don't know where you get me calling anyone a "turd"... The analodgy was that one thing can indeed spoil the fun for a lot of people if it is offensive enough... so far as watching what I say.. I am VERY careful of what I say... I mean every word. If I said it then I probly don't mind if it comes back to me. If you are trying to make some sort of childish vieled threat then It goes double for you.
beetle, beetle... shame.. where have I ever said that there was no need for strat? No... I only want aspects of it balanced so that it's affects are not like the previously mentioned turd in the swimming facility... I think you would agree that if the atom bomb were availabel in AH that many players would use it... Would you call that whining if people said it was unbalancing? certaonly not... but... many of the gameyer aspects of the so called field porkage are like that to us furballers... it is all a matter of degree.
as far as Apache... He is smart enough to know that if he dissagrees with me then... he is probly wrong and will eventually change his mind. so... he stays open minded...you should take his example. come towards the light beetle.. I mean think about it... the best you can do for an a buddy is..... hubert.
lazs
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What's NOT a hamster wheel about furballing? What do you learn beyond basic ACM tactics? What is your strategy other than to shoot down as many planes as possible?
I say again--thumb candy. That's what you're looking for, and you get it from furballing. Your whines are about the time it takes to get to the fight, that the fight is ended prematurely when the base is porked, etc., etc., etc.
I can't change your opinion, you can't change mine. Why don't you just shut up and fly? Preferably in the duelling arena that HT set up for just your sort of encounter. No troubling strat, no suicide dweebs to bother you, no GV attacks on your favorite airfield. Sounds like furballer heaven, to me.
I shoot competitively, and the shooting confederation I belong to went through just such an argument several years ago--the "martial artists" wanted a combat pistol match that was as close to reality as possible, and the "gamesmen" wanted a fast-action game. Both sides got what they wanted, when the "martial artists" formed their own group, adn went their own way. My point is that both are valid. I belong to both groups, and enjoy both styles of activity. In AH, I like to shoot down planes, and also like to destroy stuff on the ground--although I'm not very good at it yet.
Why not follow their example, and do your own thing in a separate place, if the MA steamroller fuel porking base stealing strat game upsets your finely honed sensibilities.
GET THEE HENCE UNTO THE DUELLING ARENA, THOU ELITE KNIGHT OF THE AIR. There thou shouldst enter the lists with thine opponent Noble Knights, and joust unto thy heart's content, untroubled by the knavish men-at-arms with their lowborn ways, ungentlemanly weapons, and uncouth manner.
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hurbert... the furball is ever changing. I will not try to change your mind. If you stick around long enough you will figure it out on your own.
oh... I shoot a lot... I plink. competition is with whoever I am with. I shoot all kinds of guns at all kinds of targets at all kinds of distances and environments. I am not dependant on a club to make shooting fun for me. now... knowing how sensitive you are... this was not meant as an insult to your kind of shooting... it was meant to show you that someone who does his own gunsmithing and reloading and shoots thousands of rounds a year doesn't get bored 'furballing" with his guins... every plinking session is fun and different for me.... every competitive shooting session is the same. It works that way in the game.
I want HTC to provbide the arena... I will make the fun. Like drex says... "all we need is a big blue box" .
lazs
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Originally posted by Montezuma:
Looks like you are the suicide dweeb.
Why aren't you trying harder to live by being a bail-out dweeb?
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Response by Apache:
You should think before you type. Your first sentence contradicts the second.
Actually, it doesn't. "Suicide" means you ride it in. Kamikaze pilots committed suicide attacks against American carriers. "Bailing out" means you go as far as you can until you lose a wing or an engine and have to abandon the plane. Ens. George Gay was a bail-out dweeb at Midway.
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Apache, my reaction is just the same as you assume beet1e's would be. Drop ord and fight, or continue on mission? Hard decision. Will interference from defenders cause me to make a mistake? Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm still learning, and make mistakes. I have never said I do (and never have done) an intentional suicide run. I do high risk runs, and sometimes lose. The result is the same, sometimes. Face full of dirt, message from system about who got the real--or prox--kill. I wish they would separate the prox kills out, so I could get a stat about how many times my own inexperience has "killed" me. Not as often as the robo-ack, but often enough, especially in the early days.
Here's a reality check:
The allies lost 20% of the planes that went on the Schweinfurt (sp?) raids. Even before the kamikaze attacks, many brave Japanese pilots flew off their carrier decks knowing that their chances of returning were not good. Look at the movie "Memphis Belle". It was a really big deal that they were the first crew to survive 25 missions, since most crews lasted only about 10 on average.
Have you ever been to that website on ACM tactics? In it the author explains that real-life trainee pilots do ACM work before a-g work, since a-g work is very unforgiving. A mistake usually means a destroyed plane and a dead pilot. That's one of the reasons the modern air force likes precision guided weapons so much--no dipping down into the flak where so many aircraft get destroyed. Tell a WW2 or Vietnam pilot how "no skill" air to ground work is, and that not surviving is a reflection of the pilot's inability. They will laugh at you. They saw the world's finest pilots get picked off like ducks by the ground fire. They went back in, day after day, because that was their mission.
It takes no courage at all for me to try to emulate their actions, since I am safe here at home in front of my computer. I don't have to worry about really dying. I also don't have the support structure they had, with escorts, intelligence, and a planned strategy. I take risks they would not, to achieve my game goal.
Again, my original post's purpose was to illustrate the absurdity of your position. You make assumptions about the motivations of other players that may or may not be correct. You assume that your playing style is the only "good" or "correct" way to play the game, and ignore any argument to the contrary. I wonder what the "original" suicide dweeb (your term, not mine) thinks of your play style?
I'll bet he doesn't even know you exist. He probably stays away from the furball, feeling that it is unproductive. As Less said, it's all just a big hamster wheel. You spin it clockwise, I spin it counterclockwise. (anticlockwise for you british guys). Which is more valid? Neither. They are just different.
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I love the historic missions myself, rshubert. That's why I fly Squad Ops on Friday nights, some Snapshots and I try to make the full scale scenarios that interest me. There are also CAPs and Snapshots, but I rarely get to make those because, I just don't like flying AH on Saturday afternoons/evenings. Missions succeed based solely on numbers in the MA, and even to an extent in the Special Events. The CM's try to balance the numbers so there's an actual challenge to both sides. Rarely do you find a balanced numbers attack in the MA (you find more of them in the CT, but sometimes even those attacks are porked.) Either the attackers have enough to steamroller, or the defense has enough to easily wipe out the attackers. Eventually, you see that Lazs is right. Numbers win the strat game. It's because we've got so many people in the arenas now, I guess. Strat play wasn't always so numbers centric.
Every once in awhile, I'll load up some bombs in the MA to go help with a field capture. Usually, I'll escort a squaddie's bomber though. More often than that, I participate in strat by defending an overwhelmed base. All those are pretty rare for me because if I'm in the MA or the CT, I'm looking for a fight. I find good fights sometimes, though lately in the MA, if you're not in a fast plane, you're gonna get run down by someone. I had a great Spit V vs Spit IX fight a week or so ago in the MA. Lasted over a minute too, with no interference from anyone else. It's rare to get a JABO run in the MA that includes a good fight like that.
Overall, I find better fights in the CT, although they aren't as varied during a given week. Example, on Friday I had a lot of Spit XIV vs 109s and a couple of 190s. Then on Saturday, I was the 109 (and a 190 here and there) against mostly Spit XIVs, tho I did have a nice 1 v 2 with 2 P-38's before a friend came in and saved me from them. ;) Understandable though, considering the availability of planes at given fields in the current setup.
Point is, Lazs is right. Numbers drive the strat in the MA, but that's ok. There's nothing wrong with being a good JABO pilot. It's just that the suicide JABO pilot has a much bigger impact on the arena and other players than the elite furballer does, or more apples to apples, the suicide furballer.
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Originally posted by rshubert
Apache, my reaction is just the same as you assume beet1e's would be. Drop ord and fight, or continue on mission? Hard decision. Will interference from defenders cause me to make a mistake? Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm still learning, and make mistakes. I have never said I do (and never have done) an intentional suicide run. I do high risk runs, and sometimes lose. The result is the same, sometimes. Face full of dirt, message from system about who got the real--or prox--kill. I wish they would separate the prox kills out, so I could get a stat about how many times my own inexperience has "killed" me. Not as often as the robo-ack, but often enough, especially in the early days.
Here's a reality check:
The allies lost 20% of the planes that went on the Schweinfurt (sp?) raids. Even before the kamikaze attacks, many brave Japanese pilots flew off their carrier decks knowing that their chances of returning were not good. Look at the movie "Memphis Belle". It was a really big deal that they were the first crew to survive 25 missions, since most crews lasted only about 10 on average.
Have you ever been to that website on ACM tactics? In it the author explains that real-life trainee pilots do ACM work before a-g work, since a-g work is very unforgiving. A mistake usually means a destroyed plane and a dead pilot. That's one of the reasons the modern air force likes precision guided weapons so much--no dipping down into the flak where so many aircraft get destroyed. Tell a WW2 or Vietnam pilot how "no skill" air to ground work is, and that not surviving is a reflection of the pilot's inability. They will laugh at you. They saw the world's finest pilots get picked off like ducks by the ground fire. They went back in, day after day, because that was their mission.
It takes no courage at all for me to try to emulate their actions, since I am safe here at home in front of my computer. I don't have to worry about really dying. I also don't have the support structure they had, with escorts, intelligence, and a planned strategy. I take risks they would not, to achieve my game goal.
Again, my original post's purpose was to illustrate the absurdity of your position. You make assumptions about the motivations of other players that may or may not be correct. You assume that your playing style is the only "good" or "correct" way to play the game, and ignore any argument to the contrary. I wonder what the "original" suicide dweeb (your term, not mine) thinks of your play style?
I'll bet he doesn't even know you exist. He probably stays away from the furball, feeling that it is unproductive. As Less said, it's all just a big hamster wheel. You spin it clockwise, I spin it counterclockwise. (anticlockwise for you british guys). Which is more valid? Neither. They are just different.
My last post to you on this topic as I don't know what else to say to you that will get through to you.
I do not assume my playing style is the only good or correct way. How you arrive at that conclusion is beyond me.
You like attack missions. Good on ya. Whether you are good at it or not at present is no concern of mine and not the topic of debate. I will repeat, balanced (got that one from lazs) strat is a benefit to all concerned and promotes fights.
If it is your position that there are not intentional suicide's in the game, you are either being dishonest or you aren't paying attention.
One last thing. I get the feeling you believe jabo is beyond my ability. Tell you what. I'll park the Yak and break out the Hog, Jug and Typh again. We'll revisit after a month or so.
and good luck
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lol
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You want "balance" but don't define it other than "make it harder to destroy strat". I think it's hard enough now, and object to your changing the rules of the game to accomodate your favored play style. It really is that simple. We both play within the current rules. I think they are not the problem.
Jabo is probably NOT beyond your ability. The strat game seems to be outside your area of interest. I didn't claim otherwise.
Thanks for listening, even if my point didn't get through. We should agree to disagree.