Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on October 11, 2001, 10:12:00 AM
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they are seldom used.
the f4u1c is the perfect example of a well priced perk plane. it is used and used a lot but people do not over use it and it is cheap enough that people will be aggressive and jabo and fly against the odds with the f4u1c.
however:
the tempest is way overpriced, it should be cheapened enough that it is used often yet not overused. it should cost 30 perks
f4u4 way overpriced it should cost 20 perks
ar234 way overpriced it should cost 30 perks
ta152 sucks so even if it was free no one would fly it so price is not an issue 30 perks is fine as is
me262 well if you disco you loose 100 perks if no hits. 100 perks takes a long while for the average player to aquire and 200 takes take forever. the me262 should cost 100 perk points. expensive enough to keep it rare yet cheap enough to let it be flown once in a while.
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besides there are perk planes available already that are unperked:
la7
p51
109g10
n1k2
spit
these all are used and used a lot for a reason.
they are very capable. in a lot of ways more capable than some of the perked planes
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What Fester is trying to say is:
perk a Mossie that out does anything :)
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just took up an f4u4 from a field with f4u's above it.
I killed the first f4u then got in a turn fight with the 2nd f4u. my own acks shot my left wingtip off and killed the other f4u.
I then landed the thing but spun it out onto the grass next to the runway since f4u wont stay level w left wingtip gone.
loss? 60 perks.
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I think that would be good for people that make 3 - 4 perks per sortie... The people who make 20-30 perks per sortie woulds turn AH to a KILLING spree of pain of all. :cool:
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I agree. no perk plane should cost more than 80 perks.
The arado should cost 2/3rds of what the 262 costs.
Perk the 51D, La7, n1k? Perhaps, 3 or 4 perks?. Ta152 unperk it, its a POS below 20k and above it its got to be flown like a chicken unless you wanna lose the perks. The spit IX MAY need to be perked.. 1 or 2 perks, not because of performance, but because of overuse.
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you don't really "spend" your perk points on a plane, it's a damage deposit, you bring the plane back , you get your deposit back, so if your a good pilot it won't cost anything
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ta152 sucks so even if it was free no one would fly it so price is not an issue 30 perks is fine as is
, cause you don't know how to fly it, it's the pilot, not the plane, it's one of the most underrated planes in AH, at all alts, might be slightly too cotsly, but just MIGHT.
Me262 is being used quite much allready. F4U4 costs too much, Tempest is just fine.
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The perk system is great but could be better balanced.Perk all the late war planes to some degree would be a good idea.
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Hmm, I too think the perks are too expensive. The ppl who are not playing this sim a lot have almost no chance to ever fly a 262 online.
They dont have the practice to score lots of perkies on a mission (just like me).
I too think all late war planes should be perked, in a manner fitting to the c-hog. But the ones still a bit later than these shouldnt cost ten times as much.
And: now the 262 is used a lot, because its new and capable, but when the perkies are gone it will become rare.
I admit have have some perkies, but only because I dont use them. I'm not good at this, if I begin using them they are gone.
And the ones who get 30 perkies a ride wont fly the tempest all the way I guess. I would be too easy for these Experten. If they would act like this, the would already use the NIK or something, and if they did, they wouldnt get 30 perks a ride ;)
just IMHO
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Well... I disagree. I don't think most of the perk planes even belong in the game. They should be as rare as possible if we want a "fairer" arena with such a diverse set. Right now they are used more than say the 202. How is that fair? Would a a6m2 zeke even get 1% usage? Isn't the early zeke a lot more important to WWII than the ridiculous TA152? Get all the other planes up on an even footintg first and then worry about how often the spoiler perk rides are used.
Every perk ride seen is a spoiled fight.
lazs
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I just want to clarify that Perks are as old as the reward system we've had in sims for along time. In a box game, and some online games, when you do good, you get a medal, or options to beef up your aircraft, or late war aircraft, while in campaign mode. The same applies to the perk system in AH. I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say "Finally! I got enough perks for a AR234"...this is a result of working towards a goal, and the reward issued. Sure, we could go to a "medal-based" reward system, but last time I checked, you can't fly a medal...you can fly a perk plane though!
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After losing 200 perks resently due to disco I think that it is way too much for my ISP problems.
I also think that some planes are overprised.
My suggestions and resons for the price I suggest:
f4u-C for 8 perks is fine. It was my jabo plane of choice, and it really cost those perks. Now it a big more heavy, so I use tiffie more usual for jabo, but 8 still is ok.
Tempest is overprised. It's fast, has great guns, still not very good at alts, and not the best dogfighter. Though in this case I think it is overprised marginally, and it shall be around 50 perks.
f4u4 is overprised. Its a great plane, no doubt, but not close to its price. Main thing which justifies its as a high perk is that at the moment f4u4 is the best carrier based plane. I hope it will be priced down to 30 perks.
Arado is a great buff, almost untouchable if flown right (at least it was prior to 1.08). From the other hand it carries small bomb load and now it can be killed by me262. It shall be more cheap now, around 35-40 perks.
ta-152. 15-20 perks. If it had better climb rate I would use it as a high intercepter due to its speed and good punch, but practise shows that when you climb it high enough, it is already friendly 109g10 there which kill the buffs.
me262 price would be ok if not a disconnects problem. Last nigh one .303 ping of a lanc, which died 5 minutes prior to my disco cost me 100 more perks. Either this problem shall be somehow settled (for example if I pinged BUT still no dammage, high enough, enough fuel it shall be 100 perks lost) or price shall be put down. 200 perks for bad connect is a lot even if you spend many time in AH, and TOO DAMN MUCH when you fly hour or so per day. Again, this tends to grow to the most frustrating problem for me in AH, because I like me262, and going to use it.
Also, I think it is nothing bad if prices will be adjusted and then plane usage will be monitored in the end of tour. This way perk price system would not be so rigid and more adequate.
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AH's Perk Mentality is:
You see a tempest and your in a unperked ride, say a N1K. He's coming down on your six say 3k. You think fek it, what have I got to lose, perks no, what has he got to lose, perks yes, 70 of em. You spin around and HO him, he kills you but his engines ded and hes spinning to the ground. So you made him lose his perks, you died but so what?
thats basically the reality of flying a perk plane. imo unperk all planes and ruin the game or perk all planes and how the hell do you fly when you first start?
I agree spit, n1k and la7 need to be perked thou.
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rip... yes, a "reward" system is old in boxed or board games. this is neither. We are playing against other humans who pay the same rate to play and have varied amounts of time to play and various goals. They don't like being clubbed as much as Ai does.
Let me make it quite simple... Every perk plane seen in the CURRENT arena is a spoiled fight for everyone but the perk plane jerk. The rarer these idiotic perk rides the fairer the arena. You want a reward? Go do the dishes for yer mom.
Let's bring some important early war planes to the arena and give the perk rides the boot or..... At least let's get some seperation... "area" arena or modoified RPS or even seperate arenas with switchable (within each arena) maps.... Hell... anything but this!
lazs
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Laz, in Warbirds you get medals. Its not limited to box games (the reward system).
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yeah rip... had a toejamload of em. I'll dig em out and you can have em. So... Ok... let's give out "medals" in AH and get rid of the idiotic perk system. If you melt down 50 medals you could buy 1 day free online time. How's that?
lazs
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I detect some sarcasm to the perk planes Laz? :)
Perks are still very rare. I personally don't see um as a problem.
I don't think HTC wants to do a RPS since they like to lead with new, creative alternatives.
I would support any early war plane set, but I like all aircraft in that era...I enjoy going up in a Hurri as much as I do a 262.
Currently, the Main is the busiest of the arenas they have, doing anything drastic in their aka RPS, could disrupt their income. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind. Sure, there is room for improvement, gentle, sutle improvement...but I would think that they'd be very cautious on their approach to new 'game play' in such a popular arena.
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True Wilbus the Ta152 is one of the most capable LW prop driven aircraft in AH. But ou need to be gentle and know its full range limits. Yes,it has a big arse wing ,yes it can carry a load of fuel,and doesn't climb that well...If you know how to properly load the plane you'll out climb Doras and almost climb at the same rate of a G10 and have fuel to boot to stay an hour up get some kill and RTB safely.
In an engagement with an F6F on the deck taking a dve doing Jabo he ditched his bombs and rocks and tried to hard tun with me I using the turning ability of the Ta could maneuver and maintain on his 6, he later asked me how I did it. Amazing a LW plane that turns even with spits and has a nice accel ,good to know.
Again the Ta152 is very capable and has quite a punch you just need to know your aircraft. Too bad it's perked since this is one I feel most comfortable in.
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Originally posted by lazs1:
Get all the other planes up on an even footintg first and then worry about how often the spoiler perk rides are used.
Every perk ride seen is a spoiled fight.
lazs
Hmmm, so how ya gonna even the disparity between the F4U-1/D/C and the HurriIIc/d?
Or P47 vs A6m?
190D9 vs SpitV?
SKurj
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RPS
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yep... a modified RPS or an "area" arena would work just fine. We would actually see more variety most of the time. We certainly would see more parity and, except for the "hide from each other" late war arena... Much more action. I can think of a half dozen early war planes that would all be used a lot if they had their own "area" within the arena... Bet a lot more variety would ensue in the mid war area also... As for the late war area.... who cares?
lazs
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Gimme BoB planes and a place to fly 'em without having a Tempest or Me262 coming down on me. Gimme P40's, F4Fs and A6M2's and a place to fly 'em without F4U-4's and N1K2's flying around.
Unfortunately lazs, the majority don't want this. In fact you and I prefer different things. You want it based on year, I want it based on theater with sides. ;) Can't please everyone.
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RPS does nothing to reduce the disparity between the F4U and the Hurri2, no matter which way you look at it, the F4u should win the fight (pilots being equal) everytime. Oh Oh and an RPS even based on year would still put these 2 aircraft against each other.
Same applies to the P47 v a6m
SKurj
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Originally posted by john9001:
you don't really "spend" your perk points on a plane, it's a damage deposit, you bring the plane back , you get your deposit back, so if your a good pilot it won't cost anything
so where's the return of my deposts for 2 262s I lost, undamaged, to discoes? One I was dumped my isp, the second, about 10minutes later, was just a "host connection lost" box came up. Restarted AH and was right back in the game. That one was the real steamer, losing 100points because the game server decided it dinnae like me for a second.
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Id like to see more early war aircraft,more bombers,and ditch the bloody jets.
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Early War! Here here!!!!
I too would like to see theater of operations or regions and time-frame limitation.
As for Hurris and Corsairs, I have no clue when they appeared or which models you talk about. In an F4U-1, I am very leary of Hurri's.
To me, what makes something feel more like WW2 are the planesets and not necessarily how the missions occur. Flying an F6F and battling FW190s and LA7s and shooting down B17s just doesn't give me that feel.
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Lost a 100 perk s in the Me262 due to host connection lost, I wasn't very happy, had to scream out that I was at war with the host and such but wasn't really angry, it's 100 perks, you'll get it back.
Perk planes are here to stay, it's a GREAT way to let us fly late war planes and still limmit them, if I see a perk plane in the arena it doesn't spoil a fight for me, it usually makes it more fun.
LOVE My Ta152 :)
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hehe i noticed same Zygothe..
8 of 10 fighters whitch i killed in tempest try to kill me by Hoing....
When i last time die in tempset it was because fast LA7 kamikadzed me, without hit.. he only crash into me and he was happy that somebody else lost perks..
If those people will still think like 13 years old children , then perkplanes will be still very Rare.
But if i flew B26 and 262 comeing from my 6 oc very fast, and he die in flames by my turent that i start to think if 262 is realy overperked or not...
I killed 2x me262 in B26 and damaged 1, they got me 1 times :p
Tempest is over rated but F4U4 shoulnt cost less. F4U4 have same speed better or same turn rate i bet better, 6x super .50cal is also strong .
Ta152 try 15 perks for beggin
262 200 seems to be good for me
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Originally posted by Tac:
I agree. no perk plane should cost more than 80 perks.
The arado should cost 2/3rds of what the 262 costs.
Perk the 51D, La7, n1k? Perhaps, 3 or 4 perks?. Ta152 unperk it, its a POS below 20k and above it its got to be flown like a chicken unless you wanna lose the perks. The spit IX MAY need to be perked.. 1 or 2 perks, not because of performance, but because of overuse.
I don't know about you Tac, but the arado to me is just about wortless especially right now. Bombing right now is just about worthless cuz you could make a run and have the dam field resupplied by a train or trucks before you turn around for a second pass. This is not to mention that the most it will carry is 3 500kg bombs which add up to about 3300lbs---fine if you want to take out 1 hangar. Not sure if a town has more than 3 ack but why risk it when you can have something than can at least fight back? Arado is cool and I praise AH for bringing it in but strategically it's all just "fluff". Would have been much happier seeing a B29 added instead.
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For you guys whining about wanting RPS and/or theatre matchups...
two words for you: Combat Theatre.
go fly there. what? you say it's empty? then why don't you guys fill it up? make it your regular hangout, pop in MA and ask some people/squads if they're interested in doing some historical matchups and stuff.
*You* have been given what you're whining for - use it; don't try and cram your concepts of gameplay down the throats of those who prefer a different kind.
damn rps whiners who have an arena that does exactly that, but persist in squeaking.
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I'll back you up on this one, Shane...although I wouldn't have used the same terms...
Lots of people asked for a historical arena (including me). For a small group, CT became the 'main arena': the combination of RPS/low perks/short icons/limited dar was the right answer to most of our wishes.
I understand that everybody came back to MA when 1.08 rolled out. But I'm more than slightly disappointed to see that nobody asked for an upgrade of CT to 1.08 (rails/roads/new planes...) shortly afterwards.
Will 1.08 be the death of CT? I hope not.
Btw, don't consider this as a hijack attempt on this thread...CT is an alternative to fly perked planes at a reduced cost during a limited period of time.
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No shane... I don't want theater matchups and I don't want axis vs allied.. those are sure fire ways to limit variety and parity. What I want is parity matchups. I want to fly a Ki43 against a Zeke or an F4f or a p40 or a spit one or a 109E. You go fly the CT.
Nifty... I have no interest in playing WWII re-enactment... That way lies boredom and madness. What do you want to bet that an anything goes area with nothing but early war planes in it would be a very popular area of the map?
Perk planes DO spoil fights.. They are automatically a huge advantage. The very nature of the perk system is to... MAKE THEM RARE SO AS TO SPOIL FIGHTS LESS.. It is a simple concept. It is also inherently unfair and unfun.
lazs
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So, what you're trying to say lazs is that you're in favor of a Perk setup, and are opposed to a Rolling Plane Set?
:confused:
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Get rid of BnZ planes!! they keep spoilin my furballs +(
SKurj
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Skurj, I (or any experienced E fighter) don't need BnZ planes to spoil your furball ;)
Its just as easy to BnZ in "similar" fighters as it is to BnZ in "dissimilar" aircraft.
Its all in how you do it :)
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hblair.. I have no idea how you got that out of what i said. Perk is un needed. RPS is fine in a modified form but "area" arena is better. In an "area" arena all planes would be available at all times... just not in all areas.
verm is correct. you don't need dedicated B&Z planes to B&Z... It just makes it easier by a power of 10 if you have a fast late war plane against very early slow planes. With all planes being equal it is a lot more fun.
lazs
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lazs
we all know you secretly love the perk planes and fly them under your alter-ego.
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Originally posted by Shane:
For you guys whining about wanting RPS and/or theatre matchups...
two words for you: Combat Theatre.
go fly there. what? you say it's empty? then why don't you guys fill it up? make it your regular hangout, pop in MA and ask some people/squads if they're interested in doing some historical matchups and stuff.
*You* have been given what you're whining for - use it; don't try and cram your concepts of gameplay down the throats of those who prefer a different kind.
damn rps whiners who have an arena that does exactly that, but persist in squeaking.
no strat there, no score there = no people there. The historical matchup people didn't ask for a historical dueling arena. We wanted an arena where there was more to it than historical matchups. As it is, we just fly our TODs and Snapshots for that, because there isn't a 24/7 arena with what we want. We have asked people that are interested in historical matchups to fly the CT (and there ARE people interested, check out TOD numbers on Friday nights) and they decline citing they want to "win the war." The CT will be unpopulated until strat/scoring/advancement is implemented. So in response... no, we haven't been given what we've asked for, only part of it.
Also, read what other people are saying. Here's a quote from my post. "the majority don't want this." I realize most like the MA like it is. I'm not forcing anything on anyone.
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i...i...i agree with citabria...there, i said it.