Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on May 27, 2003, 03:52:01 PM
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Why is this Muslim women in Florida, Who may not be a citizen, no News paper will print the info. Is demanding she can have her drivers’ license photo taken with her Vail on.
First a drivers license is a privilege not a right.
Second a driver’s license is used for identification
Third will this lead to Muslims asking for Passports with out photos
And dose her passport have a photo?
And finally why did the Christian teacher get suspended for wearing a cross and this woman is demanding that her religious rights not be infringed upon .
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she must be butt ugly.
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Were her demands met?
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Not yet. still in court.
Are you implying it won't be.
I think this should not even be an issue.
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Actually, it was in many Florida newspapers...and I even recall seeing a story on tv about it back when she first was sent the letter. The problem is that there is precident that the State has allowed others whose religeous beliefs don't allow photos to have licenses without the picture (some fundy Christians take Deut. 4:14-18 to mean photos).
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Driving is a privledge, not a right.
comply, or get the hell outta the damn DMV line.
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4:16 Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Hmmmmmm, is this an issue with Islam or with religion? "No laws respecting a particular religion or the free excersize thereof".
If members of a certain religion are prohibited from the "priviledge" of driving a car based solely upon their religion, then I think a good case could be made for descrimination based upon religion.
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hunh?
"descrimination against religon?"
how'd we get from requiring a photo on your drivers license to 'descrimination against religon?
lets all insist on not having picture licenses. wonder how safe life would become for traffic and law encforcement folks in such a situation.
the law is not discriminatory against 'religion'. it descriminates against blind people, the impaired, the incompetent and idiots like ms. saddams third cousin with the mole on her nose as big as venus.
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boy am i dumb, i always thought a drivers license was to prove you could drive a car.
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Simple solution, just tattoo the driver's license number and an official seal on her hand or another exposed part.
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I guess an even simpler solution is to deny her the license.
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the easiest solution for the courts would be to tell her to get the **** out cause this shouldent even be an issue...the laws the law and it wont be bent cause ur face is butt ugly
flame on :p
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Did she take the driving test with the veil on? Would she drive that way?
Seems someone wanted to highlight certain prejudices against Middle Eastern cultures and there's more than a few people willing to help her do that. Was it an issue with the religions that didn't believe in photos? Would that trial still be made a big deal of here in the O'Club?
Shoulda titled it "Those damn Arabs!"
MiniD
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LOL rag heads....:D
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I thought that fundamentalist Islam forbids women to drive... That's the way it is in Saudi Arabia anyway,
Seems like a no brainer for the judge.
"In order to assure your ability to follow your faith, I forbid you from driving... Next case"
Now you say she needs one to cash a check? In Saudi Arabia, she can't go outside without a related male escort. He can cash the check.
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Remind me of the muslim wanting their wife to wear hijab on their ID card ...
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Seems she wants the advantages of living in America without the "disadvantages", and the advantages of her own culture without the disadvantages. I think the government needs to stand firm on matters of ID. If the woman were to be granted exemption from giving full ID (inc. photo), other muslims (or people appearing to be muslims) would also have to be allowed exemption, and organisations like Al Qa'eda would be quick to seize an opportunity and turn the situation to their advantage.
It reminds me of a case here many years ago. Since 1976, Britain has had a law requiring motorcyclists to wear a crash helmet. But there was this seikh guy who wanted to ride a moped but also wanted to wear his turban, not a helmet. Because it was a religious issue, and the authorities had their image to consider, the seikh guy got his way.
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if they have allowed other religous fundys to do what their goofy stupid rules say to then they should allow her to do what her goofy stupid religous rules allow.
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If shes such a strict muslim what is she doing driving anyway?
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want to drive get the photo, NO photo, then WALK
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How does religions differ from any other imaginations, that people have in their minds?
If you have freedom of speech and free thinking, why there is a need for special laws for religions?
Driving licence is a identification card, which purpose is to testify, that the card owner has a licence to drive and the card holder is the card owner. One day this process could be done by other means, than traditional picture and signature, meanwhile suck it and shut up.
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drivers license is used as an ID not a key to start the car
with a sheet over ones head in the license photo, it's main purpose is defunked.
remove the sheet or get out of the drivers seat, plenty of seats on the bus. good luck writing a check too...
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This reminds me of an article I read regarding a blind man (due to diabetes (sp?) with a drivers license. He was arrested when they caught him swerving in and out of his lane. His 7 year old son was in the passenger seat steering.
Put up or shut up. I say we sue her for frivolous lawsuits costing us taxpayers, money.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
hunh?
"descrimination against religon?"
how'd we get from requiring a photo on your drivers license to 'descrimination against religon?
lets all insist on not having picture licenses. wonder how safe life would become for traffic and law encforcement folks in such a situation.
the law is not discriminatory against 'religion'. it descriminates against blind people, the impaired, the incompetent and idiots like ms. saddams third cousin with the mole on her nose as big as venus.
hehe - mole the size of venus.
Well if your religion forbids you to have your image reproduced... like some fundamentalist Christian sects, and the State says you may not use a vehicle on the roads and highways YOUR TAX DOLLARS helped pay for, solely due to your religious belief, then there is descrimination. I'd ask for a refund.
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the roads are used by the transportation system that gets the food she buys to the stores she buys from, the books she buys to the bookstores, etc etc.
Its not a right to be able to get a drivers license, and her tax dollars do not go to pay for the road system for the sole purpose of her driving on it.
A drivers license is a form of state ID. If she wants to ever have any kind of legal documents she will have to submit a picture ID, without a veil.
Her religion dont permit it? Well lady, separation of church and state goes both ways. The state gives a cheese about her religious "laws" just like her religion seems to give a cheese about the state's laws.
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ORLANDO, Fla. - Experts in Islamic law are being called to testify in the lawsuit of a Muslim woman fighting a state order to take off her veil for her driver's license photo.
AP Photo
Sultanna Freeman, 35, says Florida's insistence on photographing her face violates her religious rights.
"I don't unveil ... because it would be disobeying my Lord," Freeman testified Tuesday at the start of her non-jury trial.
Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail argued that having an easily identifiable photo on a driver's license is a matter of public safety.
"It's the primary method of identification in Florida and the nation," Vail said. "I don't think there can be any doubt there is a public safety interest."
Freeman's attorneys argue that state officials didn't care that she wore a veil in her Florida driver's license photo until after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, an allegation the state denies.
"This is about religious liberty. It's about whether this country is going to have religious diversity," said Howard Marks, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) of Florida.
Both sides planned to call experts in Islamic law at the trial, which continues Wednesday. A copy of the Quran has been entered into evidence.
Freeman, a convert to Islam previously known as Sandra Kellar, wore her veil for the photo on the Florida driver's license she obtained after moving to the state in 2001.
Nine months later, she received a letter from the state warning that it would revoke her license unless she returned for a photo with her face uncovered.
Freeman claims her religious beliefs require her to keep her head and face covered out of modesty and that her faith prohibits her face from being photographed.
Easy solution! go back to where you spawned .
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Look you come to America.
Then you live and obey our rules!
If you don't like it ?
Then please feel free to leave i for one will not shed a tear on you're departure!!!
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even better, take her to a private room... and shoot her...
with the camera I mean :)
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just what retard in the florida DMV office issued her license with a veil. I wanna go there and get my motorcycle license while wearing my helmet. Im a follower of Chuthuhtlu and my brothers in the Satan's Angels forbid my face from being shown in public.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Guess they could put her fingerprint in place of the photo. Add to her license fee the cost of equiping all police a print scanner. They'd also have to stipulate that the license is not good for the purpose of any id other than driving.
More ways than one to skin a cat, and they're all good. ;)
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Originally posted by JBA
Why is this Muslim women in Florida, Who may not be a citizen, no News paper will print the info. Is demanding she can have her drivers’ license photo taken with her Vail on.
First a drivers license is a privilege not a right.
Second a driver’s license is used for identification
Third will this lead to Muslims asking for Passports with out photos
And dose her passport have a photo?
And finally why did the Christian teacher get suspended for wearing a cross and this woman is demanding that her religious rights not be infringed upon .
1. They cover hairs, not face.. so basicaly you can use that photo w/o problem
2. yeah yeah yeah we do not tolerate nothing what we dont see
3. no it will lead dweeb to start whinne
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Originally posted by threedays
1. They cover hairs, not face.. so basicaly you can use that photo w/o problem
2. yeah yeah yeah we do not tolerate nothing what we dont see
3. no it will lead dweeb to start whinne
typical liberal with nothing to say. so lets insult people we don't know, nice tolerance
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Originally posted by threedays
1. They cover hairs, not face.. so basicaly you can use that photo w/o problem
2. yeah yeah yeah we do not tolerate nothing what we dont see
3. no it will lead dweeb to start whinne
huh?
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i cant help myself but these veils doesnt apear to be problem in sutch pictures ... have a look :) (http://212.80.95.1/old.JPG)
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Here is the one in question:
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/veil.jpg)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87951,00.html
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Originally posted by rc51
Look you come to America.
Then you live and obey our rules!
If you don't like it ?
Then please feel free to leave i for one will not shed a tear on you're departure!!!
Are you suggesting that she go back to where she was born?
Sultaana Freeman, an American-born Muslim woman, lost her license after she refused to remove her veil, or hijab, for a photo. Now she is suing the Florida State Department of Highway Safety for violating a Florida statute that says the government "shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion."
Looks like you got caught ASSuming.
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Originally posted by AKIron
Here is the one in question:
(http://www.inettek.com/stuff/veil.jpg)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,87951,00.html
Looks like a problem to me:eek:
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Originally posted by JBA
typical liberal with nothing to say. so lets insult people we don't know, nice tolerance
my dear intelectual .... i had at least balls to go and visit these countries, i spoke to these people and i spoke to these girls
btw muslim arent the only one who wear veil ....
but you probably watch only TV dont you ?
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she will flip out and kill people.
Ha-yAAAAAA!!
*ninja gaiden music in background*
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lol that girl is typicaly cheap argument ..... go and check reality
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Originally posted by threedays
btw muslim arent the only one who wear veil ....
The Amish wear beards and we don't let them drive either. ;)
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Originally posted by threedays
lol that girl is typicaly cheap argument ..... go and check reality
huh?
You do realize the picture is THE girl making the complaint?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought that fundamentalist Islam forbids women to drive... That's the way it is in Saudi Arabia anyway,
yeah and christian fundamentalist converted indians into "good" people :D
you can be pretty sure that fundamentalist forbid many things to his wife..... IMAO but majority of muslim arent fundamentalist :)
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Originally posted by AKIron
huh?
You do realize the picture is THE girl making the complaint?
LOL man i will tell you that girls with cover like that one are sooo rare... i was in Iran 1 month and i saw only 1 girl covered like that one... only 1 in 1 month
if she cover herself like this, she will never ever drive car, because she will not be allowed to go outside alone.... and once she will go outside with husband/son/relative, she will have driver
so this girl was realy bad argument
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"You do realize the picture is THE girl making the complaint?"
How can you tell? She looks no different from the hundreds of women ive seen scurrying around the middle east on al-jazeera TV.
Oh waaait! She's the one that wants to drive! Of course! How could I not recognize her from the others!
SIlly me! :rolleyes: :D
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Originally posted by AKIron
huh?
You do realize the picture is THE girl making the complaint?
huh there are only few lines under picture
"Tuesday: Sultaana Freeman reads from the Quran on the witness stand at the Orange County courthouse in Orlando, Fla."
nothing about this matter :)
LOL may be she read about this matter from Quaran... my be some special US edition :D
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Originally posted by threedays
huh there is only few lines under picture
"Tuesday: Sultaana Freeman reads from the Quran on the witness stand at the Orange County courthouse in Orlando, Fla."
nothing about this matter :)
Threedays, get a clue man. This thread is about this woman complaining she can't get a drivers license without showing her face for a photo. The article I referenced is about this very woman. What part are you having so much trouble understanding?
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Originally posted by AKIron
huh?
You do realize the picture is THE girl making the complaint?
lol you say that i didnt understand .... i will ask about meaning of your sentense some of my friends.... coz my english realy sux...
i trough, that you are trying to point on the girl on the picture ..
anyway as you said they dont cover face, they do cover hairs..
look at it technicaly ... is it harder to ID someone in veil whitch cover heairs ? And keep on your mind, that she will cary that veil, when she will meet someone who will be interested in her ID
forget your law and tell me, if is it technicaly problem to have picture with covered hairs
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Threedays,
There is no problem with a scarf that does not hide the face. So far as I know.
The problem is with the veil that hides the face as shown in the picture I posted. This woman wants a picture on her license that is like the one I posted.
If you added your location as "Not USA" or something similar I'd be less likely to make fun of your english comprehension.
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Originally posted by rc51
Look you come to America.
Then you live and obey our rules!
If you don't like it ?
Then please feel free to leave i for one will not shed a tear on you're departure!!!
but she was converted... so she is may be borned american .. huh ... look at her original name
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ok Iron good to hear that
any way in my opinion, they should keep her driving lic. and demand new picture once it expire, not during validation time
but as i said ... when muslim girl cover herself like that one, she will never drive,walk alone ... at least not in ME :)
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I thought this info from CNN was interesting:
Driver’s identification rules in Muslim nations:
Saudi Arabia: Women aren't allowed to drive
Iran: Women wear a traditional Shadour, which does not cover the face.
Egypt: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
United Arab Emirates: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Oman: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Kuwait: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Qatar: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Bahrain: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Jordan: Women can drive if their faces are covered but do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
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Originally posted by threedays
yeah and christian fundamentalist converted indians into "good" people :D
you can be pretty sure that fundamentalist forbid many things to his wife..... IMAO but majority of muslim arent fundamentalist :)
WTF does converted Indians have to to with this issue?
If she is as fundamentalist as she appears to be, shouldn't she follow fundamentalist beliefs and therefor not drive?
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Driving is a privilege and not a right.
If they're not willing to expose their mugs for licensing purposes, they should be denied the privilege.
Keeping your women sequestered around the goat stew pot and thus precluding them from playing sports or even exercising is not a good idea for promoting feminine beauty.
All you get are some butt ugly grease stained women with slack teats and mudflaps.
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Originally posted by crowMAW
I thought this info from CNN was interesting:
Driver’s identification rules in Muslim nations:
Saudi Arabia: Women aren't allowed to drive
Iran: Women wear a traditional Shadour, which does not cover the face.
Egypt: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
United Arab Emirates: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Oman: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Kuwait: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Qatar: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Bahrain: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Jordan: Women can drive if their faces are covered but do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
This is America. We have to out-Muslim Muslims.
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Already stated here earlier. No exposed face photo, no license, no drive. Not having a drivers license is not a restriction to her practice of her religion. What part of the koran requires she drive?
Now if she really wants to be strictly fundamentalist she has NO BUSINESS having ANY dealings with a man not her husband or brother. That means she vilolated her "religous" beliefs by testifying in court. Her husband should have testified for her.
Toss the suit out ,and her too, and get onto the next case.
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Originally posted by osage
Driving is a privilege and not a right.
If they're not willing to expose their mugs for licensing purposes, they should be denied the privilege.
Keeping your women sequestered around the goat stew pot and thus precluding them from playing sports or even exercising is not a good idea for promoting feminine beauty.
All you get are some butt ugly grease stained women with slack teats and mudflaps.
welll osage im sorry but i never saw so many people sport in parks as i saw in Iran..... when somebody wear veil or cover, it doesnt mean, that she cannt sport..... guys .... you ideas about these people are funny
and about that license .. yes sure... but the matter is, that they gave her license with covered photo and now they want to cancel coz of security (lol).....
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
WTF does converted Indians have to to with this issue?
If she is as fundamentalist as she appears to be, shouldn't she follow fundamentalist beliefs and therefor not drive?
nothing ... it was cmparation to that comment ... so quote whole post and it will make sence, dont quote only half of it
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Originally posted by threedays
nothing ... it was cmparation to that comment ... so quote whole post and it will make sence, dont quote only half of it
Which part of your post did I leave out?
1. Christian fundamentalists did much harm, as do fundamentalists in other faiths, as tolerance is not practiced and then they burn the heathens and witches. I understand that.
2. It has nothing to do with this issue. Unless you are arguing that her fundamentalism is somehow is a danger to the population as a whole.
3. I am arguing that if due to her fundamentalist faith she cannot get her picture taken, then those very same fundamentalist views should forbid her to drive and leave the house without a male relation escort. 'Can’t eat your cake and have it too'
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but point isnt if she can have license with cover or not... point is that your goverment gave her license with cover and now, before expiration date, they say, its not valid because you have cover..... you chaged rule for her during the game.... and thats problem
we already talked about covers with Iron before
anyway .. since when is she fundamentalist ?
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Holden here is whole post i did....
quote:
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I thought that fundamentalist Islam forbids women to drive... That's the way it is in Saudi Arabia anyway,
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yeah and christian fundamentalist converted indians into "good" people
you can be pretty sure that fundamentalist forbid many things to his wife..... IMAO but majority of muslim arent fundamentalist
so read it again again and tell me how do you explain that for yourself please
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Are you suggesting that she go back to where she was born?
Looks like you got caught ASSuming.
I am saying that If she does not want to obey the laws of this land.
then she should move to another land that will allow her to wear her vail.
The Law is the Law for everybody!!!
Her religion should not give her special treatment to not have to obey the Laws:mad:
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come-on Rc, You assumed that she was an immigrant and reacted accordingly. "You COME to America" were your exact words.
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Look to be honest with you my opinion is there is no room for Muslims in America period!
Did you watch the news last night where the muslim clerics are preaching death to all the Jews and Americans!!!!
Thats what they are learning in there churches!!!
I have no need for those kind of people in my beloved America.
So i wish for the the Rag headed bastards to go HOME !!!
Now you may disagree and that is you're right as an American.
And I respect you for that.
My views although a bit radical are only driven out of my LOVE for America and ALL of her people.
The muslim culture and the Judea christian culture will never see eye to eye.
So it's best that they stay over there !!
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Originally posted by rc51
My views although a bit radical are only driven out of my LOVE for America and ALL of her people.
The muslim culture and the Judea christian culture will never see eye to eye.
So it's best that they stay over there !!
And, since some of "her" people are Muslim, the above is basically meaningless. Go whack a baby seal or something.
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I would really rather wack a freekin muslim
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Okay threedays...
Point 1. So when you clicked on the quote button, only the stuff that I wrote came thru...correct? You had to take about nine more steps to re-quote yourself.
The first part of your post isn't what you wrote; it is what I wrote... see, it says, "Originally posted by Holden McGroin"
So I did quote your post in it's entirety.
Point 2. The State of Florida is not my government.
Point 3. Many moderate Islamic women show their faces, and veil their hair. The more extreme (and therefore by definition fundamentalist) view on the veil is a complete covering of the face. The fact that she holds to the law of Islam as it pertains to dress code over that of the law of the land connotes fundamentalism.
If a Christian decided that the law of faith was supreme over the state and required evangelism in public school, I am sure they would be considered 'Fundamentalist'
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Rc - Your sentiments may be genuine, but they are incredibly hollow. How can you profess love for a Country that was founded upon the ideals of freedom of religion while professing a desire to eliminate those same freedoms for those you find distasteful.
silly.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Rc - Your sentiments may be genuine, but they are incredibly hollow. How can you profess love for a Country that was founded upon the ideals of freedom of religion while professing a desire to eliminate those same freedoms for those you find distasteful.
silly.
Tahg, ole' bean, the U.S. constitution allows limitations of certain types of religious activities, i.e. no live animal sacrifice, no multiple marriages, etc. etc. This woman made a free choice to convert to Islam. I don't hate mulsims. They don't have to leave as some suggest. But, they should not be treated any differently under the law than any other American, REGARDLESS OF THEIR RELIGION. They should not get special treatment because of their religion either. This particular ACLU tactic mischaracterizes the law requiring photos as a law affecting freedom of religion. It is not. It is a law that requires photos on driver's licenses which are, de facto, i.d. cards in this country. The impact perhaps has an affect on this person religious beliefs but, whoever said every relgiion can be practiced in all of its particular tenets. Not the founding fathers. Here, the situation requires a photo. If she does not want to give a photo which allows the person veiwing the photo to identify her, then she doesn't get the license. At least that woudl be my vote if I were the judge and since that is how I would rule, it is clear that I will never become a judge.
Cya up!
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lol Holden you right, you are to good to make some mistake, so you just pressed quote and you just watch Tv....
can you explain me, how do you imagine modern muslim girl, traditional muslim girl ?
then i would like to know what do you thing about ortodox... that could be proper fun
you wrote
*"If a Christian decided that the law of faith was supreme over the state and required evangelism in public school, I am sure they would be considered 'Fundamentalist'"*
basicaly there is something about God on american money..
Isnt it america, where you must oath on the bible when you speak infront of judge ?? May be only in some of US states.. i realy dont know about US law... so tell me
dunno but if you belive in what you said, america is fundamentalist country from your point of view isnt it ?
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She's in court. But I'm sorry she should be allowed to wear her vail for her photo. Perhaps another mean of identifacation.
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She shouldn't be driving anyway.
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Just thinking what a wonderfull place this would be if any thread based solely on "what about them!" was deleted.
MiniD
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I have zero respect for a religion that preaches for the deaths of Jews And my fellow country men!
As far as I'm concerned they(they terrorist) hide behind this so called religion .
You have to admit that the majority of terrorist acts have been carried out by MUSLIMS!!!!!!
All they do is preach hate.
Hell take the term JIHAD there word not mine-- Holy war LOL.
They think that war Is HOLY and they will be rewarded for it.
F--k em all.
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lol RC you know pretty nothing but BS, whitch you did hear in your TV ... take your freaking passport, go there and ask about these things .....
lol what a lovely example of media eater
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Originally posted by threedays
lol RC you know pretty nothing but BS, whitch you did hear in your TV ... take your freaking passport, go there and ask about these things .....
lol what a lovely example of media eater
Hey Threedays;
RC may be a little over the top, but if you think the media invented radical islamic terrorists, you are a total and complete nincompoop! (did I spell that right?)
:D
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Originally posted by threedays
lol Holden you right, you are to good to make some mistake, so you just pressed quote and you just watch Tv....
I make mistakes, but in this particular case, I did not. I quoted you verbatim, and made no edits. And where does watching TV come into this discussion?
can you explain me, how do you imagine modern muslim girl, traditional muslim girl ?
then i would like to know what do you thing about ortodox... that could be proper fun[/B]
I was speaking of fundamentalist and what I will call progressive. Wearing a Burka comes from a fundamentalist point of view, at the other extreme would be a thong Bikini.
you wrote
*"If a Christian decided that the law of faith was supreme over the state and required evangelism in public school, I am sure they would be considered 'Fundamentalist'"*
Yeah I sure did write that, what's your point?
basicaly there is something about God on american money..
Isnt it america, where you must oath on the bible when you speak infront of judge ?? May be only in some of US states.. i realy dont know about US law... so tell me
Swearing on the bible before court testimony is custom, it is not required by law. Harry Truman finished his oath of office with "and thus I swear." Rather than the more traditional "So help me God." neither is required by the constitution. The Constitution mandates the President being sworn solemny "swear of affirm"
dunno but if you belive in what you said, america is fundamentalist country from your point of view isnt it ? [/B]
I have no idea how you may have divined that I said America was a fundamentalist country. That is far from the case. There are some fundamentalist citizens, but America is a secular republic, respecting a diversity of religious beliefs. {See Amendment One of the Constitution.}
The majority of US citizens are of christian faith or at least Judeo-Christian background, so there is a tendency toward those beliefs, but seperation of church and state is a cornerstone of the republic.
Iran and Saudi Arabia have Islam as a state religion. Tolerance of religious diversity is extremely limited.
Within 60 miles of me (100KM) there is (are) Catholic churches, Episcopalian, Anglican, and Baptist churches, Mormon Temples, Jewish Synagogues, a Shinto shrine, Islamic Mosques, Buddist Monestary, theres a place for Hindus, you name it we got it. We even have a ball park if you want to play ball, or rivers to go fishing in while those who wish to attend religious services do so. Do you know the address of a synagogue in Mecca?
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Originally posted by Syzygyone
...But, they should not be treated any differently under the law than any other American, REGARDLESS OF THEIR RELIGION.
That statement should end this discussion. It is absurd that we even consider what she wants.
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this is a PERFECT example of separation church and state......
this law has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with safety..... if your religion doesn't allow you to comply to the law........ well sorry, you're gonna have to sit this one out.
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well Holden
i saw christian in Iran, i saw churchs in Iran ... people showed great respect to me, no matter on my religion , nobody was trying to explain me that muslims are best of... ...
I never been in Mecca, so i dont know if is there Synagog or not.. but in Iran, whitch you consider to be somehow fanatic muslim country, there are jewish, christian .... and they live next to each other w/o problems..
i already know that you never been in iran, coz you know nothing about it
dont know about SA, never been there... but you surely was there, so you can tell me, what did you mean by
"Iran and Saudi Arabia have Islam as a state religion. Tolerance of religious diversity is extremely limited. "
and i guess, that you dont even know, that cador, burka were in use in Iran looong time before Islame came ...... yeah... these girls covered themself before.... ofcourse from other reason :)
BEVO
problem is that she got her license and now they changed rule and they want to take her that license before it expire... its not about new license ... if it were about new license, ok we have new rules... but change rules during the validation is not quite OK.. at least not in this country.... but we have 70% of atheist here, so we are probably odd :D
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Originally posted by Syzygyone
Hey Threedays;
RC may be a little over the top, but if you think the media invented radical islamic terrorists, you are a total and complete nincompoop! (did I spell that right?)
:D
naaaa i dont say that radical islamist terrorist dont exist... of course they do as IRA do , but these guys probably belive that all muslims bite :D
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She was allowed to take picture with her veil on before 9/11. After that the rules changed and now she is saying its descrimination. She has a slight point. But a drivers license is a form of identification. They should have never let her take it with the veil on before. Then they would not be having this problem.
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Originally posted by jamusta
She was allowed to take picture with her veil on before 9/11. After that the rules changed and now she is saying its descrimination. She has a slight point.
And the point is? That we can't change laws? Utter nonsense.
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The point is they should not have let her do it in the first place; but they did because of her religion. She was practicing her one of religious beliefs, the government allowed this. Now its like the government is taking away her right to practice one of her beliefs.
Sort of like the national anthem. It was fine before now its not. You see how many people are still pissed about that dont you.
But hey laws change right?
ID is just that, ID. Why they allowed her to do it in the first place baffles me.
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Originally posted by jamusta
The point is they should not have let her do it in the first place; but they did because of her religion. She was practicing her one of religious beliefs, the government allowed this. Now its like the government is taking away her right to practice one of her beliefs.
Some PC doofus screwed up allowing the original license to be issued and they simply corrected the problem.
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Possibly... But that doofus will not be accountable for it. The DMV will. And since it is a government agency...well we all know...in the end someone will get sued.
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Originally posted by threedays
well Holden
i saw christian in Iran, i saw churchs in Iran ... people showed great respect to me, no matter on my religion , nobody was trying to explain me that muslims are best of... ...
i already know that you never been in iran, coz you know nothing about it
and i guess, that you dont even know, that cador, burka were in use in Iran looong time before Islame came ...... yeah... these girls covered themself before.... of course from other reason :)
Note: the above is an edited quote:
I suggest that you read my words and discontinue trying to read between the lines.
You are confusing government with the people. Of course there are those not of Islamic faith in Iran, but I thought that I would give you a link: http://www.president.ir/ (http://) this is a link to the President of The Islamic Republic of Iran which shows by its very name evidence that those not of the Islamic faith have limited political freedom, and therefore limited political power. There is no separation of church and state, otherwise they would change the name.
I do not need to go to Tehran to know things about Iran. Using your logic, you could not possibly know about Iran's (or more properly Persia's) pre-Islamic dress, because you were never in pre-Islamic Iran. Once again by your own logic, apparently one needs to walk through a Louisiana bayou in order to know that it is full of alligators and snakes, and one must endure mosquito bites. Please do not respond by discussing Louisiana bayous.
But back to the intent of this thread, by her actions and dress, it is my view that she is fundamentalist in her religious belief. I fail to see how one could argue that. It is her faith that requires the veil.
My personal gauge is that if I find myself in a religion that requires a certain type of dress, I would tend to think that I am in the wrong religion, and that includes sacred underwear. Sorry, Utah, I dress for the weather.
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ummm i cant find any stuff about limitation of other religion on that page.... ofcourse, there are not christian or atheist in the goverment, coz they have very small support there... 95% of people are muslim... and be quite sure that they know that only 20% of them is doing their homework well
oohh man come on ... does your goverment support mosqs ? does italian goverment support mosqs ??? are there muslim in your goverment
ok they do not build churches for people, but why the hell should they, when 95% of people are muslim lol
anyway there are Jews, Synagogs, Christian, Ortodox, churches in Iran..... so before you start to whine about evil iranian president, check reality
anyway you are talking about man whitch changed Iran a lot, you pick wrong man for flaming
he bring a lot of changes for girls
anyway another goood link about iran is http://www.irna.com
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lol Hodlen if you realy belive, that you can find true about IIR out side of IIR, you realy rock...
anyway take 1000 USD, passport and go to iran for 1 month
if you want some people to help , i can provide you some contact
they will be pleased by your visit and finaly you can check all these evil fundamentalist personali ...
its point less to talk to you, coz you will know more about Iran in 1 month sitting on the chair, that i could learn by 1 month travelling around IIR
and just btw ... quoran doesnt say, what they should wear... its only say, what shoulnt been seen..... everybody interepreted these words by his owen way
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Okay Threedays. One last time to correct your false perceptions of my posting(s).
Originally posted by threedays
ummm i cant find any stuff about limitation of other religion on that page.... ofcourse, there are not christian or atheist in the goverment, coz they have very small support there... 95% of people are muslim... and be quite sure that they know that only 20% of them is doing their homework well
oohh man come on ... does your goverment support mosqs ? does italian goverment support mosqs ??? are there muslim in your goverment
oohh man come on.. My government does not support any religious institution. The ACLU makes sure of it. Is seperation of church and state a difficult concept for you?
ok they do not build churches for people, but why the hell should they, when 95% of people are muslim lol
anyway there are Jews, Synagogs, Christian, Ortodox, churches in Iran..... so before you start to whine about evil iranian president, check reality
I noted the name of the country as evidence that the Islamic Republic of Iran was an Islamic Republic. I did not attack the policies of the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Please do not make the claim that I did. As compared to the Ayatolla Khomeni, he is a reformer. I think that he has a way to go to be in the same league as Gandhi, as we all do.
anyway you are talking about man whitch changed Iran a lot, you pick wrong man for flaming
I did not attack the policies of the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Please do not make the claim that I did.I am talking about the government, not any individual.
he bring a lot of changes for girls
I did not attack the policies of the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Please do not make the claim that I did.
anyway another goood link about iran is http://www.irna.com
Please remember that this thread is about a woman in Florida, and the issue is one of religious dogma versus public policy.
This will be my last response to you, as it seems that you find it difficult to grasp the concepts I assert. You have misunderstood virtually every argument I have made.
Just one last edit:
From the Constitution of the IR of Iran
Article 1
The form of government of Iran is that of an Islamic Republic, endorsed by the people of Iran on the basis of their longstanding belief in the sovereignty of truth and Qur'anic justice, in the referendum of Farwardin 9 and 10 in the year 1358 of the solar Islamic calendar, corresponding to Jamadi al-'Awwal 1 and 2 in the year 1399 of the lunar Islamic calendar (March 29 and 30, 1979], through the affirmative vote of a majority of 98.2\% of eligible voters, held after the victorious Islamic Revolution led by the eminent marji' al-taqlid, Ayatullah al-Uzma Imam Khumayni.
Note:
Nowhere in the Constitution of the United States does it mention the Christian Bible.
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Press Release 12th January 1994
Action To Stop Execution Of Iranian Christian
MPs, Church leaders and British Human Rights Groups are appealing to the Iranian Government to save the life of an Iranian Church leader sentenced to death for apostasy.
Rev Mehdi Dibaj's execution was ordered by the Iranian Revolutionary Court following his trial on 3 December 1993. A convert from Islam, Rev Dibaj is 59 years old and has been imprisoned for ten years, two of which were spent in solitary confinement without light. He has been subjected to a number of mock executions and was repeatedly tortured.
Rev Dibaj's execution order came from Branch No7 of the Punitive Court 1 of Sari 7 (File no: 1690169 K7, Verdict No: 1766172): The court verdict stated that : "... the apostate was born a Muslim before his apostasy and as per Islamic law if he reaches maturity and voluntarily chose blasphemy (non Islamic religion or discard Islam) and so on he should be given the option to repent or be killed.
The verdict continued, "Because in adulthood and choice of Kofr (blasphemy) and non-repentance and insistence on the choice of non-Islam which the accused is the best example of and he (Rev Dibaj) insist on his belief on non-Islam with reliance on the document of the above mentioned Fatwah and documents in the primary opinion he is sentenced to execution."
The Iranian Government has stated that there is religious liberty in the country and that no one suffers in Iran for their beliefs. Only a few days before Rev Dibaj's trial, Frank Field MP received a letter from the Mohammad Safaei, Deputy Head of Mission at the Iranian Embassy in London which stated that, "Iranian Christians, like other religious minorities in Iran, enjoy the full rights and privileges to all Iranian citizens by the constitution. They are perfectly free to engage in their social, cultural, and religious activities and face no obstacles."
Revd. Mehdi Dibaj delivered his own written defence to the court. In a powerful statement, this devout church leader declared: "Life for me is an opportunity to serve Him, and death is a better opportunity to be with Christ. Therefore I am not only satisfied to be in prison for the honour of His Holy Name, but am ready to give my life for the sake of Jesus my Lord and enter His kingdom sooner, the place where the elect of God enter everlasting life, but the wicked to eternal damnation."
"1would rather have the whole world against me but know that the Almighty God is with me, be called an apostate but know that I have the approval of the God of glory.
Rev Dibaj accepted the court's verdict and decided not to write a letter protesting against the sentence. Instead he declared his will in a statement to the Court that conveys his unshakeable faith and his commitment even unto death.
Rev Dibaj's will states, 'I, Christian prisoner, Mehdi Dibaj, Son of Hassan, accept the court verdict with joy and peace. Please:
1 Expedfte the process of carrying out the sentence.
2 Submit my body to Babol Medical College for their medical use.
3 Allow the cross to remain around my neck
4 Allow Holy Communion to be administered to me before execution by two Iranian Christian clergymen.
He also asked that his belongings be donated to the church and "give my children into the hands of God who is able to keep them safe so that they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ."
Rev Dibaj's four children named Mary, Joseph, Jesus and Angel are aged between 13 and 18 and live with his family and are supported by the Iranian Church.
Upon hearing the news of Rev Dibaj's imminent execution, David Alton MP telephone the Iranian Embassy in London. He also tabled an Early Day Motion in the House of Commons (No 317), seconded by Simon Hughes MP, which calls upon the British Government to: "...make immediate representations to secure the commutation of this harsh and inhuman decision."
In addition, Mr Alton mobilised Parliamentary support. He:-
* Spoke with Nirj Deva MP who contacted Downing Street.
* Telephoned John Gummer MP, Ann Widdecombe MP and Alastair Burt MP who all made separate representations to Douglas Hurd at the Foreign Office.
* Talked with Helmut Schaeffer, the German Minister of State who authorised intervention and directed the German Ambassador in Iran to make representations.
* Telephoned the Papal Nuncio in Iran, Archbishop Romeo Pancivoli, who said he would appeal on behalf of the Vatican.
George Robertson MP had already taken up Mehdi Dibaj's case under Jubilee Campaign's Parliamentary Adoption Programme. After reading a letter from Rev Dibaj to his son, in 1992, Mr Robertson said, 'Although it is most worrying that he is still kept in prison in these circumstances, he has clearly lost none of his spirit and that must be quite an inspiration."
Mr Robertson is to ask the Labour Foreign Affairs Spokesman Jack Cunningham MP to take up the case.
Jubilee Campaign, a British-based human rights group supported by over 100 MPs has organised Parliamentary action for Rev Dibaj for sometime. Lord Avebury, William Cash MP and Rev Martin Smyth MP are among several MPs who wrote expressing concern directly to the Iranian authorities. In 1993, Anthony Coombs MP urged the British Government to intervene, and, in replying, Douglas Hogg, the Foreign Office Minister stated, "We have made clear our concerns to the Iranians on many occasions, most recently during a visit to Tehran in September by a senior UK official when the plight of religious minorities and the case of Rev Dibaj were specifically raised."
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well vulcan things work like this.. if you did born in non muslim family, you can have realigion whitch you want
but if you did born in muslim family, you cant change it, but this law has been made by someone, its not part of quoran, just part of politic
so iranian born jews,christians and other are free to enjoy their religion
edit.: Vulcan there is similary problem, when Shiaa wants to merry Sunni (sunni can accept shiaa, but shiaa 'shouldnt' accept sunni)
btw Holden i probebly didnt get your point before.. so you mentioned, that they do not tolerate other religion in IIR because of name of IIR ?
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Threedays, in Texas, from 16 to 18 yrs old your license has a profile picture on it, then 18 to 21 it's facing forward........ when I was 16, I got one with me facing forward...... when I got my first ticket, the cop saw the mistake,and made me fix it...... the DPS makes mistakes, and with security being quite a factor these days, they are trying to fix every mistake they can.
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Originally posted by rc51
You have to admit that the majority of terrorist acts have been carried out by MUSLIMS!!!!!!
All they do is preach hate.
1972 Munich Germany
1979 Embassy In Iran hostages
1980 Lebanon kidnapping and murder businessman
1983 Beirut bombing 800 marines killed
1984 Achille Lauro 70 year old Jewish American in wheelchair thrown from ship
1985 TWA 487 hijacked from Athens
1988 Pan Am flight 103
1993 WTC
1995 Kabul Towers in Saudi Arabia
1998 Embassies: Kenya, Tanzania
2000 USS Cole
2001 WTC, Pentagon, Penn. Headed for Washington
2001 Shoe bomber plane
2001 LAX airport shooting
2001 French tanker bombing
2002 Decapitation reporter Pakistan
2002 Bali night club 2002 Café in Indonesia
2002 Snippier shooting USA Washington
2002 Moscow theater
2002 Business man in Jordan
2002 Muslim rites over newspaper article in Kenya thousands of Christians murdered
2002 Jewish hotel bombing Kenya
2003 Asan Akbar US marina grenades own troop and shoot them in back as fleeing.
2003 Saudi Arabia compound
2003 Marroco
and still growing
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Originally posted by threedays
ummm i cant find any stuff about limitation of other religion on that page.... ofcourse, there are not christian or atheist in the goverment, coz they have very small support there... 95% of people are muslim... and be quite sure that they know that only 20% of them is doing their homework well
oohh man come on ... does your goverment support mosqs ? does italian goverment support mosqs ??? are there muslim in your goverment
ok they do not build churches for people, but why the hell should they, when 95% of people are muslim lol
anyway there are Jews, Synagogs, Christian, Ortodox, churches in Iran..... so before you start to whine about evil iranian president, check reality
anyway you are talking about man whitch changed Iran a lot, you pick wrong man for flaming
he bring a lot of changes for girls
anyway another goood link about iran is http://www.irna.com
we have over 300 mosques in the US now. most preaching hatered towards the US.
In Indiana the other day the head of the mosques said that he wants more muslim representaion in the US government so "they" can show "us" that "they' are her to stay..
now the use of "they" and "us" is very telling..he's words not mine. The muslims don't plan to become US citizens they want to be seperate with equal representation..This is not how America was founded or intented to be.
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we have over 300 mosques in the US now. most preaching hatered towards the US.
Bull****
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Why did you start in 1972 ?
and I see no IRA action in your list nor the RAF or Action Directe or ...
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funny, that sounds just like JJ and all those hispanic activists.
Although this time it aint the race card but the religious card.
uh.. what was your point again?
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So MT, should Robert Byrd be able to get his photo with his klan hood on?
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Originally posted by threedays
well vulcan things work like this.. if you did born in non muslim family, you can have realigion whitch you want
but if you did born in muslim family, you cant change it, but this law has been made by someone, its not part of quoran, just part of politic
so iranian born jews,christians and other are free to enjoy their religion
edit.: Vulcan there is similary problem, when Shiaa wants to merry Sunni (sunni can accept shiaa, but shiaa 'shouldnt' accept sunni)
btw Holden i probebly didnt get your point before.. so you mentioned, that they do not tolerate other religion in IIR because of name of IIR ?
The point is you ramble about how wonderful it is and you can be a Christian in Iran, yet they still execute people for wanting to be Christians.
Sounds like BS, smells like BS, doesn't matter what country its from its BS.
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Originally posted by Fatty
So MT, should Robert Byrd be able to get his photo with his klan hood on?
LOL..
Byrd's hood is only slightly more synthetic than Trent Lott's hair.
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Originally posted by threedays
welll osage im sorry but i never saw so many people sport in parks as i saw in Iran..... when somebody wear veil or cover, it doesnt mean, that she cannt sport..... guys .... you ideas about these people are funny
You think young girls enjoy playing sports in chadors in the summer heat?
It's downright dangerous and makes them smell like a bag of ass.
Forget about swimming.
Before you say how happy Islamic sportswomen are to play in cover, you should read this article.
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/australianopen2002/story/0,11487,632145,00.html
"An Algerian woman, Hassiba Boulmerka defied the ayatollahs to win the gold medal in the 1500 metres at the 1992 Olympics.
As the first daughter of Islam to shine in international sport, Boulmerka was spat upon and had obscene graffiti about her daubed on walls around Algeria at a time when the Islamic Salvation Front was sweeping to power. "
You think most young Iranian women ar happy to go about daily life dressed in a stinky black bag? Oh they must enjoy it so!
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well osage... the girls in these black cadors, are a bit diferent girls that girls with just cover ...
you should check out what is mandatory for them and what is not
the girls in loong black Cador are girls, whitch belive so they have no problem to wear it
girls whitch cover them self only because of law are girls with just some (black is not madatory) cover on the head
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Originally posted by threedays
well osage... the girls in these black cadors, are a bit diferent girls that girls with just cover ...
you should check out what is mandatory for them and what is not
the girls in loong black Cador are girls, whitch belive so they have no problem to wear it
girls whitch cover them self only because of law are girls with just some (black is not madatory) cover on the head
It's obvious you don't have much experience with young women, especially attractive, tanned fit ones who take pride in their athletic prowess.
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LOL not realy
im afraid that you didnt get one thing.... these girls whine about cover.... they dont whine about fact, that they (90%)have no sex before marriedge.... so basicaly, they dont have need to show their butt on the street ... but its pointless to speak about it, bacause they are sooo diferent in these things..
anyway i saw many iranian girls run in parks, practise karate, play basketball, voleyball (with boys together ofcourse) and so on ...... they were playing, practising and not whinning
anyway i saw a lot off girls here using veil during the sport as well... ummm yea we are probably odd as well when we dont practise in bikini
i dont know why people worry about this, coz once majority will be agains scarf, they will just cancel that Law and only these girls in looong black one will keep them ... (these girls whitch you see in TV as "poor" muslim girls )
keep on mind that they do mind to wear veil, not about their live style... at least not majority of them
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I have no idea how you can so easily and completely dismiss the idea of a muslim woman being capable or desiring of independent thought or behavior.
I thought I was closed minded.
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since when muslim women can not be independent ?
they cant be as independent as they cant have realtionship before marriedge ..... but who want this or that, will find way to get it
i noted that they do mind, that young boys are a bit brain washed by western influence
i didnt note that they mind separated metro
edit .: you pitty them more that they want you to pitty them ...
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Originally posted by threedays
since when muslim women can not be independent ?
I rest my case. Fool.
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Osage you fool! Don't you see? Muslim women are free to be stoned! When was the last time a western women could get a good stoning? Nobody has respect enough to stone western women, so how can they be free?
Iranian women stoned to death for obscenity, murder
TEHRAN
A 35-year-old Iranian woman has been buried up to her armpits and stoned to death by court officials for acting in obscene films, Entekhab newspaper said on May 21. The woman was arrested on charges of producing and acting in obscene films. She denied the charges, but evidence and testimony from witnesses led the judge to issue the maximum sentence allowed under sharia, the paper said.
Iran's Supreme Court last week approved another stoning sentence for a 38-year-old Iranian woman for killing her husband.
An accomplice, a 24-year-old man, will be hanged for the killing of the woman's 42-year-old husband, who was stabbed to death and buried alongside a cow's skull in a fruit garden outside Karaj, a town close to the capital Tehran, the Hambastegi daily said.
Men who are stoned to death are first buried waist-deep in the ground. If they manage to escape, they can go free. Women are buried deeper to stop stones hitting their breasts.
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Oh and read this:
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhviran.htm
"Girl children suffer the worst conditions in Iran today. According to the clerical regime’s rules and regulations, a girl child can virtually be bought and sold with the consent of her male guardian. Article 1041 of the Civil Code provides that ‘Marriage before puberty (nine full lunar years for girls) is prohibited. Marriage contracted before reaching puberty with the permission of the guardian is valid provided that the interests of the ward are duly observed."
It has become common practice to sell or force very young girls to marry much older husbands, giving rise to all sorts of social ills. Adineh magazine wrote in summer 1991: "An 11-year-old girl was married off to a 27-year-old man. The father, who had seven daughters, received $300 for his consent. The morning after the marriage ceremonies, the girl was taken to hospital suffering from severe lacerations to her genitals."
Yup, they're free, playing in the parks, enjoying life....
can you say Paedophile nation?
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Fanatical Islam mistreats women in no way, its simply redikulus!
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I tutored a 17 year old girl from pakistan in college a few years ago. She had just come out of ESOL (English as Second Language) classes and was starting college, and she had been in the US only for 2 years, yet her english was surprisingly good.
Anyway, it was obvious that her english level was really high, she only had problems with jargon, mannerisms and such. She was in the same spot I was in when I arrived to the US. Anyone telling me "hey what's up" would make me look up and that sort of thing.
During those 6 months she told me a lot about her past, especially how amazing it was to be in a place like the US where she could be her own person, not a commodity. Her father had agreed to marry her off when she was 18 to another family.. when she was only 10. And through twists of fate her father managed to bring the whole family to the US.
Never in my entire life have i ever met anyone with such energy and willpower. Think forrest gump but with einstein IQ. She learned almost perfect english in just 2 years, and her grades were excellent on the freshman year. I lost contact with her when I took a year off college to work, but at the end of last year I met her again.. she was working at SEARS, in the dept. next to my sister's office. I was picking my sis up from work and she came out. Still smiling. Sis tells me she is furiously protective of her rights and freedoms.. when she turned 18 she confronted her father and literally told him she was NOT marrying.
Just amazing.
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Fla. Judge: Veil Not Allowed in ID Photo
Associated Press
June 7, 2003
ORLANDO, June 6 -- A Florida judge ruled today that a Muslim woman
cannot wear a veil in her driver's license photo, agreeing with state
authorities that the practice could help terrorists conceal their
identities.
After hearing three days of testimony last week, Circuit Court Judge
Janet C. Thorpe ruled that Sultaana Freeman's right to free exercise of
religion would not be infringed by having to show her face on her
license.
Thorpe said the state "has a compelling interest in protecting the
public from criminal activities and security threats," and that photo
identification "is essential to promote that interest."
Freeman, 35, had obtained a license in 2001 that showed her veiled with
only her eyes visible through a slit. But after the Sept. 11 attacks,
the state demanded that she return to have her photo retaken with her
face uncovered. She refused, and the state revoked her license.
Freeman sued the state of Florida, saying it would violate her Islamic
beliefs to show her face publicly.
Her case was taken up by the American Civil Liberties Union, which saw
the case as a test of religious freedom. Conservative commentators
ridiculed the case, saying it would be absurd to allow people to obscure
their faces in ID photos.
Assistant Attorney General Jason Vail had argued that Islamic law has
exceptions that allow women to expose their faces if it serves a public
good, and that arrangements could be made to have Freeman photographed
with only women present to allay her concerns about modesty.
Howard Marks, Freeman's attorney, said the ruling would be
appealed.--------
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I have the perfect solution:
they should take a picture of her breasts, put it on the license, and make her show them whenever IDed.
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Good call. Stop this nonsense.
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Didnt read it all, read enough. Ill inject some new, untainted blood into this issue. (Im not calling it an arguement because, so far as I can tell, there is only one side that isnt totally ridiculous.
If she wants to drive in the great state of Florida, she takes her veil off for her ID picture.
Its really that simple.
I dont think many LEO's would be too happy with pulling over veiled traffic offenders whom they cant identify at first glance.
What is happening to this country? Have the lot of you really gone so far off the deep end that youve completely forsaken reason in your attempts to make the world a "better" place?
When it comes to local/state/federal policy lately, it seems that every step forward in one direction results in 3 steps backward in another direction.
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i didn't know muslim women were allowed to drive cars, isn't that a sin?
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don't know anything about this case in the usa.
but a few years ago in the uk when it became law that all motorcyclists had to wear a helmet.
turban wearing indians were exempt.
there was uproar and eventually the indians had to wear a helmet also.
and bloody right too
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she should get it tattood on her yap if she wants to look that way.
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This woman is American who converted to Islam. There is none so zealous as a convert. So she gave up numerous rights so hard won by the women of America and now asserts her right as a woman to further restrict her rights.
Is she mad or what??
As someone pointed out in most Islamic states women who drive must have their photo taken unveiled. In fact if she was such a devout Muslim, it would be her husband who did the talking for her. She would sit silently in the background forbidden to talk to anyone.
In reality, despite the opposite impression the media often gives, most Muslim women throughout the world only wear scarves and leave their face uncovered. Only in the most extreme areas are they covered up at all times. All the muslim women that live round here leave their face uncovered and they are all very devout.
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This woman is American who converted to Islam. There is none so zealous as a convert. So she gave up numerous rights so hard won by the women of America and now asserts her right as a woman to further restrict her rights.
Is she mad or what??
As someone pointed out in most Islamic states women who drive must have their photo taken unveiled. In fact if she was such a devout Muslim, it would be her husband who did the talking for her. She would sit silently in the background forbidden to talk to anyone.
In reality, despite the opposite impression the media often gives, most Muslim women throughout the world only wear scarves and leave their face uncovered. Only in the most extreme areas are they covered up at all times. All the muslim women that live round here leave their face uncovered and they are all very devout.