Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: _Schadenfreude_ on May 28, 2003, 04:46:49 AM
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Have taken to the G10 like a duck to .... er water - one question though - the impressive stats in terms of climb and speed seem to be more in line with the 109K, is the G10 actually a K in sheep's clothing and if not can we expect the K anytime soon?
um along with the D12 and assorted Russian and Japanese goodies like th Tojo and the Frank?
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The G10 was a mutt airplane cobbled together with whatever was available at the time and so it had a wide range of performance from G6/AS class all the way up to near K4 standard - this is the type we have now. The K4 would still climb faster, have faster deck speed, have better balance and would have better roll rate at high speeds because of flettner assist tabs on the ailerons.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Have taken to the G10 like a duck to .... er water - one question though - the impressive stats in terms of climb and speed seem to be more in line with the 109K, is the G10 actually a K in sheep's clothing and if not can we expect the K anytime soon?
um along with the D12 and assorted Russian and Japanese goodies like th Tojo and the Frank?
Don't expect any new planes until AH2 comes out sometime this fall.
Ack-Ack
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You have a pretty sharp eye there, Schaden :)
This has been discussed in the past, and the general consensus of the community is that our Bf109G-10, is the best possible G-10 configuration there can be - I believe people have proved that our G-10 has the DB605DCM engine, and it's speed is listed 452mph at 22k feet(although some people suggest actual AH test speeds are little slow, 448mph max).
The specs certainly is not the 'normal' kind of G-10 performance specs you'd see around.
The K-4, as in Grun's post, would probably be a little better in small bits of performance, but I think it's safe to say our G-10 is practically a K-4.
..
I don't think we're going to have a K-4, but some people have been suggesting(actually, I have been suggesting :D ) that HTC improve bits of performance on the G-10 and change it's name into a K-4, and, insert one new 109 (preferrably the G-6/AS or the G-14) between the G-6 and the new "K-4", to fill the gap.
As it is, our Bf109G-6 is the earliest of all the G-6 models there is, and it's performance lacks behind even the G-2.
ps) One 'trend' of AH plane choices, is that they try not to model few, rare planes which hardly saw enough combat( of course, there are some exceptions).
I don't think we'll ever get to see a 190D-12 or a 190D-13 when we already have the D-9, and the Ta152H-1. However, the lack of Russian and Japanese planes have been brought up in the past - I think the news of the development of AH2, sort of dissipated the discussions on new planes for those two countries, but I'm quite sure in the upcoming AH2 HTC will be planning to put in more planes. (Maybe.. umm... if we're lucky, we'll get to see them at the end of this year?)
The AH community really really wants to see the Ki-84, too. :)
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The best part of the G10 is the ability to decide on cannon loadout, excellent feature....
The K in a new skin would be pretty awesome - would kill for a
D12 to get rid of those pesky La7's....
How come all one see's are Spit, Spit, Spit, La7, Spit, Spit, P51, La7, Spit, Spit, Spit......don't they know what they're missing out on????
Personal wish list for next build would be:
109K
Fw190-D12
Tojo - 4 x 20mm model
Tojo - 2 x 45mm model
Frank1a
Frank1c - 2 x 20mm & 2 x 30mm ( can hear the cries of anguish now)
P39 - Su lend lease
Yak3
Yak1
Mig3
IL10
Clipped wing spit Va - awesome roll rate
P400 - P39 with 20mm
B25 - the deathstar
He111 - for those London raids in 1940
Do217e - 8 x 1000 lbers
Do217j - Night fighter
Wellingtons
Gladiators
The list is endless!!
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Dont forget the Me410 :)
I'm with Kweassa here. I would like to see a K4 instead of our G10 and a additional G6/AS too. There were only a few D12 so i would rather see Japanes or Russian planes.
I really dont know why most people fly Spit P51 N1K and La7. Sure are all good planes but they are boring and easy to fly (except the P51 - I'll never understand to fly this beautifull plane too its limits). I like the challange so most times I'm sitting in a 190A5.
But I have to admit that sometimes I enjoy a good base defense in a N1K. ;)
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We need a yokosuka mxy-7 (ohka) !!!!!!!
Nothin like a jap single seat jet kamakazi plane. MUAHAHAHA
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Originally posted by YUCCA
We need a yokosuka mxy-7 (ohka) !!!!!!!
Nothin like a jap single seat jet kamakazi plane. MUAHAHAHA
I thought that's what P38's were for...
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Ju-88 G6 nightfighter with radar and the Schrage Musik and oh what fun that be. Im stuck in H2h for next couple of weeks,do you realize the pure joy of furballing in a Ju-88 and landing 10 kill sorties of temps, spit14s and niks? If I had guns that work it would be twice the fun. And in the new mission arena nightfigher missions seaching for those lone lancs and filling em full of lead and watching them ride their incendiary filled crate into the ground.
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Originally posted by TW9
hmm k4 sounds nice but get rid of the g10? from the sounds of it the k4 would be a sweet ride but i'd hate for the g10 to turn into some suped up dweeb plane..
I thought the K4 would be the dweeb plane, with all that speed and firepower.
I like the G10 with the 30mm and gondolas - its fun to kill Mustangs and Spitfires in HOs because they think they have bigger guns. I think the K4 would have this same option, but with higher speed and better roll rate, right?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The AH community really really wants to see the Ki-84, too. :)
That's just a vicious rumor..
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Originally posted by TW9
No, dont ho.. especially vs a spit when u could easily bnz and pony and g10s are usually good fight but i'd still bnz them too if i had the advantage..
And leave the gondies in the hanger.. u'll find that its a much better ride w/o them... If ur confident in ur aim use the 60 30mms which are usually good for 3 to 6 kills for me and the 13mm machine guns are very underated... Some people land w/o even using them... A steady spray of those will take a plane down easily.. U could get another 2-4 kills with the mg..
I've found that the added weight of the gondolas helps me accellerate on the downhill run to engage a bandit. Invariably I'll end up with a Spit or Mustang turning back at me into a frontal attack, probably expecting me to either turn away or else get hosed by .50s or Hispanos. When that happens, I just zoom in my view and squeeze the trigger at d1.0 and let the cowl guns hit first, then have the 30mm bat clean-up while the other guy's guns are doing a big X in front of me and passing on either side. The gondolas are there for the extended kill sorties, when I've used up the 60 rounds of 30mm on the first 2 or 3 kills.
If I actually want to turn in a 109, I'll bring a 109F or G6 (with the lighter gun loadout). If I get frustrated or outnumbered, I'll just grab a Yak9U.
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You're right about the gondolas making the plane sluggish in the rolls and turns, but so long as I fly the way the 109G10 "Juggernaut Package" wants to be flown (i.e. - a lot like the 190A8 with four 20mms) without bleeding too much speed, it makes a pretty big sledgehammer in the sky. And it seems to be a bit faster than the 190, too.
One thing I found to help in turning the G10 with gondolas is to use the elevator trim to bring it around the turn, then flip the Combat Trim back on to get speed back in a level flightpath. GScholtz told me about that; it really helps avoid hitting the ground in a high-speed dive. The roll rate is still a bit sluggish with the gondolas, but the G10 is still fightable.
The trick with the 109F is to remember that you don't have much of an engine compared to the late-war planes in the MA, so you'll have to use gravity to get your speed up. I'll typically WEP a 109F up to around 15k, then normal climb up to 20k to let the motor cool down, then maybe WEP it on up a couple more feet depending on the number of enemy in the area. The more enemy there is, the more likely it is that you're going to get bounced by a LA-7, P-51D, or Typhoon, so make sure you have enough potential energy to keep you fast enough to avoid their guns.
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i have a big problem with compression in the g10, if i am flyin for mother germany, its a dora
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Originally posted by gofaster
If I actually want to turn in a 109, I'll bring a 109F or G6 (with the lighter gun loadout). If I get frustrated or outnumbered, I'll just grab a Yak9U.
Turning bad, Boom and Zoom - Good...
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_66_1054143251.gif)
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The AH G10 is a nice ride. I would like to see in AH2 an early (AH's present version) G6, a late Model G6 (ASM) and maybe trade in the G10 for the K4.
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Schad - glad you've found a plane you really like. :) I've struggled with 109s, right back into WB days. The G10/G6/G2 in AH are probably very good planes. I wish I could make them work for me, but after years of honing up a technique based on speed/B&Z, the 109 offers a lot of advantages that I don't know how to use, but is lacking in three key areas (for me). Those are: Unresponsive elevator, lacklustre roll rate, and having to get to less than 200 yards for a shot plus the fact that deflection shots don't work too well - kind of moot given that you have to get to 200 yards. I think of all the 109G models, I like the G2 best overall. But I suck in all of them! Be sure to watch Grunherz's 13 kill sortie film.
The antithesis of the 109Gx is something like the F4U - excellent roll rate, crisp elevator response and excellent gun platform for deflection shots. Oh well, you can't be good at everything. ;)
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Scot never trade in a 109 for another. ;)
Keep our g10.
we need
109e7
109f2
109g6/asm
109g14
109k4
:)
The 109g6 is the funnest to fly in AH. After that the g2, then then the f4. The g10 is the easiest to survive in.
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All 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using its high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high speed passes do not suit the 109's style. The controls get stiff above 640kmh. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary.
In a high speed dive in if the bad guy spots you even the slightest evasive is enough to cause you to miss him. Even with trim the pull out takes a long time. By then the bad guy could just run or by the time you recover his friends have arrived.
As for turn fighting that all depends on the plane you are facing. I wouldnt turn fight with a spit but a typh you can easily get angles on.
When I flew Ah I would turn fight all the time in a g6. Using rudder you can scissor with any plane except an a5.
Gondolas are just added weight. All you need is 3cm of rheinmetal.
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How come all one see's are Spit, Spit, Spit, La7, Spit, Spit, P51, La7, Spit, Spit, Spit......
LOL. So true...so very true. Ugh.
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Ive just read a book called 'The Last year of the Luftwaffe: may 1944 to may 1945' by Alfred price (ISBN 0905-778-74-X)
In it he mentions the supply situation for the fighters and it seems there was actually a great many aircraft in storage, so many in fact that one pilot remarks that when they damaged an aircraft they simply went and took a complete aircraft rather than repair the damaged one.This was mainly due to the fact that so few aircraft could fly due to fuel shortages that the Germans had more aircraft than they could use.
Our G10 seems to be a late one used just before and uring the introduction of the 109K. It does have 'similar' performance but it still falls short of the 109K-4 in terms of speed and manouverability. They introduced quite a few changes like the galland hood and special more aero dynamic skin(flush riveting or something) also paddle attachments to ailerons to help the roll.It all added up to a few mph's increase in speed and a better roll at high speeds.
The g10 is a great aircraft in AH and it should be noted its not a bad furballer either if you use it well.
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The G10 in AH can make many things if you handle it right. Accelration climb and 30mm goodness. Though I don't see how much would a K-4 improve upon the G10,we'll just have to see.
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Yep no gondolas, never - they are absolutely terrible for a G10 or G6. I did take them sometimes on the F4 or G2. But never never on G6/10.
Batz is righ the 109 is best to use with moderate alt advantage like 1.5-2k yards max so when you dive your great acell only gets you to around 350mph or so (really go for under 400mph) and so you will still have really nice control to aim the 30mm.
The 13mm guns are really nice and can give yu kills if you can get a tracking shot.
Here's my 13 kill sortie in the G10 with 30mm. I only filmed it after the fourth kill or so and so it doesnt show two really good kills I made in full vertical dives against hard manuvering targets - the key was to cut throttle and not overspeed.
G10 - 13 kill sortie (http://home.attbi.com/~filipm/G10-13Kills.zip)
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Originally posted by hazed-
Ive just read a book called 'The Last year of the Luftwaffe: may 1944 to may 1945' by Alfred price (ISBN 0905-778-74-X)
In it he mentions the supply situation for the fighters and it seems there was actually a great many aircraft in storage, so many in fact that one pilot remarks that when they damaged an aircraft they simply went and took a complete aircraft rather than repair the damaged one.This was mainly due to the fact that so few aircraft could fly due to fuel shortages that the Germans had more aircraft than they could use.
Our G10 seems to be a late one used just before and uring the introduction of the 109K. It does have 'similar' performance but it still falls short of the 109K-4 in terms of speed and manouverability. They introduced quite a few changes like the galland hood and special more aero dynamic skin(flush riveting or something) also paddle attachments to ailerons to help the roll.It all added up to a few mph's increase in speed and a better roll at high speeds.
The g10 is a great aircraft in AH and it should be noted its not a bad furballer either if you use it well.
Hazed from the book of Greenhearts first in combat with the Dora9 this is not true. They didn't have enough planes and had more pilots then planes available at the time in late 44 early 45. Gas was critical and training flights were very limited. Maybe so for other units but for JG54 and parts of JG26 this was not the case.
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I donno about what range I open at its more about feel and look of the target compared to my plane - how I feel it would "catch" a 30mm. But generally speaking under 300 yards - when I flew more often and was really good with the 30mm I could hit aimed 2-3 round burst 600 yard high deflection shots. Oh the days.. :)
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Viper has some good 109 films in here: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=869834
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Batz, I stand corrected :D!
Man, do miss those G6 sorties with JG2.
(wipes tear from underneath his monicle )
It's refreshing to actually see a thread on the 109 stay civil for more than 3 posting.
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Originally posted by Scot
Batz, I stand corrected :D!
Man, do miss those G6 sorties with JG2.
(wipes tear from underneath his monicle )
It's refreshing to actually see a thread on the 109 stay civil for more than 3 posting.
One tries to add a little decorum to what otherwise would be merely a vulgar brawl...
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Scot I few in the CT yesterday (1st sorties in months) and went up against 3 spit 14s in a g10. I killed 2 but thought damn if my wingman was here we'd have cleaned house :)
It wasnt to bad I rtbd and was bounced by a pair of jugs doing their best to bore me to death. After about 10 min one screwed up and I slipped to his 6. He tried a tracking shot and followed my through my break. After a few reverses (I lost a step in my scissor) he popped right out in front. He could of extended but he panicked and must have pulled his stick through his belly. He flopped abit and lost his e advantage. 2 3cm hits to his leftwing sent into the channel and his buddy ran home. I landed with 20% fuel and 47 30mm left.
Sorry arsed Saw caught my 190a5 after I fought 2 other spit 14s and killed umm. Damn opportunist.
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I always knew that Saw's a sneaky person :D