Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: lazs2 on May 28, 2003, 08:29:34 AM
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First ride... The city I work for just got 3 electric cars. four if you count some golf cart looking cobbled up thing..
California decided that so many cars were to be zero emmisions.. the auto makers complied with electric cars that no one bought... they couldn't sell the damn things.
Big rigs full of the things are going around municpalities and dropping em off on permenant loan.. Our city got 2 mini van like nissan thingies and a little nissan (i think) pickup.
We had to install "fueling stations" since you can't just plug these things in to the wall.
They asked if I wanted one for my guys so I took one for a test. The thing looks like any other nissan minivan inside and out. You turn on the key and hold it to start until a green ready light goes on.. couple of seconds. put it in either d or r (the only choices) and drive off.
The guages are different.. you have a bar graph kinda thing that tells you how quickly you are burning up amps... a remainning charge guage too. everything else is standard digial. The car has climate control ac/heater and a am/fm/cd player cup holdrers, power windows and locks etc..
Ok.. the thing is quiet... real quiet.. It is not all that bad on acceleration if you don't use modern standards... it accelerates about like an old VW beetle.. worst is from say 50mph up... top speed for me was 77mph.. with the ac on an at 65 mph or so it probly will go about 80-90 miles and it takes 5 hours to charge.
So anyway... the car isn't very practical at this point but.. it is a surprisingly, very good, start... there would be some people who could actually use such a thing and... they would not have to sacrafice anything convienience and luxury wise except some acceleration and the occassional inconienence of needing to go somewhere and having forgottten (or put off) charging the thing.
lazs
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So if ya carry 4 spare batteries and don't use the AC.....can ya make it all the way to work in the morning?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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I'm seeing a few of the Honda hybred variant showing up around these parts.
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I'd consider one if they didn't cost double/triple a gas guzzler
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swoop... like I said... it's not for me but if you wanted a car to get around the city in and run errands or if all you drove was say 30-40 miles one way 60-80 both ways to work... It would do the job.
My point is that there isn't any big sacrafice in luxury or acceleration or routine.. it is pretty seamless..... for about 90% of the driving most people do day to day. I was thinking that with this kind of a start ....
lazs
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oh aye. :D I'm just taking the piss outta electric cars cos.....well it's an electric car.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Yep... I don't like em at all but I was surprised at how far they had come so far as making them like real cars... You could drive one around the city and no one would have any idea it was an electric car. If anything... it would be easier to get around in.
I don't want to be around when the bill comes for a new battery pack or the computer in the car that takes up as much room as most 4 cyl engines... The computer is even water cooled with a little radiator. Two motors drive the front wheels the brakes have valving to charge the batteries as you decelerate.
I can't figure out.... Why in the world don't they have photovoltaic cells on the roof charging the damn things when they sit... not much good in england but here... 8 or ten hours in the sun in the parking lot would extend the range I bet.
lazs
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Yup.....and maybe they could even be used in England......for maybe a week in July.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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The thought of all those huge batteries sitting in the ground in 2 years leaking mercury sends shivers up my spine.
People pushed "non-fossil fuel" engine thinking they were helping the environment. In reality, they're simply exchanging 1 pollutant for another.
Just say no to electic cars!
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Electric cars...
I waiting to be at the grocery store someday when one is there, hood up, waiting for a wrecker.
"Problem?"
"Left the radio on...."
:p
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Lazs, if you have a spare V8 sitting around I'll step and fetchit your tools if you want to yank the 900 pounds of batteries and electric motor out of that puppy and do a swap. Then you can take the electric drivetrain and cram it into one of those electric kiddy cars for your grandkid. It's a win-win.
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they use mercury batteries ? or lead acid ,if they are lead acid they are completly recylable i believe.
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We've had electric milk floats in Britain for decades. For that sort of application (small range urban environment) they are ideal. The government should provide incentives for city based small businesses to take them on. Would certainly help the air pollution problem.
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I like the hybrid idea. And... they aren't "twice the price of gas guzzlers". You can get into one for about 20k, closer to 25k if you want the civic.
They serve to reduce the use of fossil fuels without having to rely on externally generated energy. The only real downside is they are just now breaking 100hp.
MiniD
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Deja:
I believe they really are over twice the cost, but their production is mandated by law and the manufacturers sell them at a loss. Also, I am not so sure the zero-emissions thing is realistic either. The electricity they run on comes from somewhere, and that somewhere probably produces emissions. With the inefficiencies of multi-stage energy transferal (i.e. burn hydro-carbons to produce electricity, transmit the power, store it in a battery, etc…) these things may in some cases actually produce more emissions than a car with an 80 hp four-banger.
Hooligan
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I took a couple of strange rides up in Reno a couple months ago. Cost me $200!
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Now if they can just get the price under $250,000 and get the emissions (including electric power generation) less than any normally powered Honda you can buy at any dealership...
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If anybody wants to know the sadly true story of these cars in California: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=3301
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Deja:
I believe they really are over twice the cost, but their production is mandated by law and the manufacturers sell them at a loss.
:rolleyes: Um... what they cost to buy is what is relevant to you and I unless you are a stockholder of Honda or Toyota stock. Of course, the tax credits to the buyers are nice too.
I do find it odd that all of the cars being discussed here are Japanese. Are we putting greater requirements on importers (x % of cars should be electrical/hybrid) than we do on domestic manufacturers?
MiniD
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I see no reason to produce, sell, and market hybrid or electric cars when they still sell and produce those oversized tanks like the Ford Expedition which gives soccer moms the license to kill.
Just one of those things negates any pollution or gas conservation 2 hybrid or 6 electric cars would do.
-SW
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The reason they don'thave photo cells are (1) expense. photocells are really expensive (2) current output ofindividual cells is very low (3) life of photocells is limited, especially when exposed to dust, acid rain, etc.
I'm holding out for hydrogen fuel cells, myself.
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The car and driver article is right on the money.. the ARB nazis are lefties in the extreme and favor feel good legeslation over actual problem solving every time. they don't so much want to solve the polution problem as to stick it to the car makers and people of California and the rest of the country.
The telling thing is that these electric cars save 1 lb of pollution over their lifetimes over and that of a low emmissions vehicle or... about the same as spilling a pint of gas on the ground... when GM offered to pay for programs that would prevent polution in the realm of thousands of times more than all the electric vehicles required to be produced would.... the CARB refused.
That being said... the car I drove was a $100,000 machine being leased to the city for $100 a month
lazs
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I'd consider one. I live about 5 miles from work, all city driving. Almost never put more than 40 miles on the car in a day. Just bought me one of these yesterday though....
(same color, but without the ...er ..accesories)
(http://www.s10xtreme.com/images/hoot.jpg)
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would you pay close to $100,000 for it with the prospect of putting in a $9500 battery pack every 4 years or so tho?
nice truck... what engine?
lazs
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Vortech(c) (k)? V-6
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DejaVu wrote:
Um... what they cost to buy is what is relevant to you and I unless you are a stockholder of Honda or Toyota stock.
That is not true. If these costs are imposed on the auto manufacturers then some or all of those costs will be passed on to comsumers. In addition, this stupidity causes a whole slew of negative side-effects, many of which are detailed in the article that Funked provided a link for.
Hooligan
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Vortech(c) (k)? V-6
Vortec.
Shoulda waited a month or two. Go to chevy's website and look at the Colorado. It's replacing the S-10. 3.5L inline 5 and 2.8 inline 4, both variants of the 4.2 inline 6 in the Trailblazer. Nice looking 'sport' package available too.
That being said, congratulations. Hope she does good for you for a long time to come. Ya might want to ask about getting those 'accesories' installed.
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It is true that the costs of subsidizing the electric car program will be passed onto everyone else... this is simply more lefty, feelgoodism, donothingism, tax you into oblivion.
The EPA and the ARB are the next IRS... maybe even worse. They will be involved in every aspect of your life and allways.... for the worse. Fortunately they are not that organized or well funded yet... they are at odds even with each other in each of their hundreds of tentacles.
Cut funding for ARB and EPA..
lazs
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Originally posted by Hooligan
DejaVu wrote:
That is not true. If these costs are imposed on the auto manufacturers then some or all of those costs will be passed on to comsumers. In addition, this stupidity causes a whole slew of negative side-effects, many of which are detailed in the article that Funked provided a link for.
Hooligan
Ah... I see you have to resort to the EV argument to prove a point when my whole point was about hybrids.
All electric is a farce... pure and simple. Anybody can see that.
The Hybrids are definately an improvement in efficiency and are good in that aspect. Their prices are comparable to other vehicles in their class, though not the low end vehicles.
Stop and think for a second... if you have to use "California said..." in your argument... you've already lost.
MiniD