Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Manedew on May 30, 2003, 08:43:10 PM
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Not CMSA/CD.. I mean ramming ....
Could you change the code in AHII to have collision only happen if they meet on BOTH front ends?
It's really lame to die because some guy turns in a sicciors (not intending to ram) but on my FE it's a RAM! I didn't make the turn! He didn't try to ram me !
This also happens to my advantage and I hate it almost as much then .. it really ruins the game at times....
I go into sicciors .. just as i think i'm gonna get over shoot or maybe killed (depnding on pilots skill) boom they go in a bs manner) I didn't try to ram them but on thier FE i turned into them.....
Both FE's or no damage HT .... it makes the most sense .. think about it :D
Oh one thing I forgot to add ....another Ram problem is when you kill pilot on a given plane; the plane will stand still and blow-up .. sometimes even backtracking to the point of the kill before it explodes .. this happens very quickly but does happen.... so if you get a pilot kill and plane blows up and you expect to fly through where he was a few moment before he will sometimes backtrack right before the explosion causeing a collision which should not have happend.
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.... or one FE and BOTH die. At least it's even then.
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Both of these suggestions would be a disaster as has been discussed before and would lead to insanely dweeby tactics.
Fortunately HiTech knows this as he has experimented with the various collision options before.
I'll let you reason through the flaws in each suggestion as I am too tired to explain it again.
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I see the flaws to my suggestion....... you could fly through an enemy plane on rare occasions and recivve no damage.. is that so bad .. I find it much worse when con simply explodes because i siccior on him! I'm not tryign to ram him that would be Dweeby, but on his FE that's what happend...
Both dieing if on one FE is out of the question .. would be even worse .. think WB's is coded like that...
Maybe WldThing will chime in and back me up ... i won fight vs him in KOTH today because i sicciored in this manner and boom he blows up because his FE shows me flying into him....
Anyone who's not flying 'quickly' through on ram would be killed by FE updates anyway; so this would keep people from being dweeby with it-and often times I bet both would die anyway like happens now. Doing it to one guy is not the solution .. nethir is punishing both for something not on one guys FE
Would it be so bad if sometimes you flew through a con rather than explode?
Personaly I find it a better situation that seeing plane blow up in mid air for no apparnt reason. Or explodeing myself because a spit pulled a turn he wouldn't make were my plane in that postion on his FE.
Well to me this is the BIGGEST annyonace for me in AH's gameplay. Anyone else agree?
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Manedew,
Nope, you didn't see the flaw.
Try again.
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The only flaw is having attempted to make "ram's as fair as possible". I agree... either both FE's should take significant damage or neither FE take any damage at all (the latter if HTC is going to cater to the gamey types)
Truth is, "ramming" really did happen in WW2. As did collisions. Sometimes these occurances were on purpose... sometimes accidental. I have no documentaion, however I absolutely refuse to believe that either plane in any ramming/collision came out unscathed.
One extreme or the other... simple really. The amount of whinning will be equal in either case. Having the the outcome depend upon who has the fastest/cleanest connection (which is all that is happening really) to the game is horse****.
Justification? I've been able to cause "ram's" without taking damage "almost" at will. Ya, takes a little time and patience but it can be done. If you time a quick stick movement just right.. you can be the "no damage" guy. The odds are that you won't always succeed, but with a little work, you can better your chances of coming out the "winner". As it is... your basic gamer retard can actually exploit the function, and I'm sure become quite good at it. But in the end... having one plane or the other come out with no damage is... (see above).
My .02
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Originally posted by Karnak
Manedew,
Nope, you didn't see the flaw.
Try again.
damn STFU if you ain't gonna say anything ... what am I missing O wise one? :rolleyes:
two post where you explain nothing just say your wrong .. blah ..
blah blah
Stupid troll
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Karnak is right and if you cant see it you are blind.
you could fly through an enemy plane on rare occasions and recivve no damage.. is that so bad ..
That wouldnt be rare. What would be rare is collision being detected on both fes. Any collisions at all would be rare. This would lead to ho jousting as never seen before.
You cant have both die if only one sees the collision Gsholz. Thats about as stupid as you can get. Imagine the whines when 1 guy has film with him shooting down another on his fe and clearly doesnt collide but just explodes for no reason.
As I said that would stupid.
Collison are fine the way they are. You control you aircraft and if you dont want to die in collisions you can avoid them.
What we need is a new stick stirring code, right mane?
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Ho jousting ... well if your have trouble with that ... your obviously just as dweeby as the next guy..... I never get ho'd unless I choose too .... that's no excuse .....
The way it is now, I have many films where plane blows up for no apprant reason on my FE... just because it isn't me that blows up makes it ok? All I'm asking for is a defualt of not explodeing unless it's a "sure" ram by both FE's
When BigMax runs KOTH he leaves collisions off alltogether .... I have never noticed adverse affects to gameplay. The one time I played KOTH with collisions on (run by Seeker) ... guess what happens see above ... I WON the fight because of it .. but that doesn't make it any better for me.
Don't take this personaly, just the way i see it:
frankly by your comments I don't think your 'experianced' enf with this game to know what I'm talking about. By experiance I also mean skill level.... because if you don't siccior, you don't know what i'm talking about ... and people who whine about HO's IMHO are quite skilless, and have no faith in thier own ability...
So am I blind to it because I don't find HO's a problem to begin with? :rolleyes:
Ok, I guess- if thats the way everyone feels ... otherwise....
You still haven't provided a reason why the current one FE method is better than both... Unless you count HO's which I don't.
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I have to agree with you.
I would say it should only register a collision if it is seen on both FE's.
I dont like losing half a wing of my aircraft when some spitfire flies away with not a mark of damage.I think it should either damage both aircraft or neither.Ive also had losses because i flew very near to an aircraft. It was in a scissors and i had cut in right on the tail of a yak.Just as i was about to fire i exploded.
I put this down to a micro warp.I think somehow he was shifted back 10 yards on my FE i collided he got the kill and i got pissed off! lol :)
this sort of think just isnt right. surely if i crashed into the back of the yak with enough force to make my aircraft explode wouldnt he have a damaged if not destroyed tail?
The yak pilot even said 'it sucked' and spoiled a good fight.
just my 2c
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You stick stir your way out, thats less dweeby I guess........
Koth sux so I dont cafe about it.
The reason other guy dies is because he collided. If he would have avoided you on his fe he wouldnt have. Same goes for you. You control your plane if you dont wanna collide then avoid it.
The only time I ever have collisions are from hos. If you are crashing into peoples 6 you have more to worry about then collisions.
the only other collisions I have are from close scissors where the triling guy flies into me. But mostly this is on my fe only on the other guys he has shot me.
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my experience goes back well 3 years or so. So dont tell me. How else would I know about your stick stirring.
Batz aka Wotan.
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"stick stirring" ya STFU is that the best you got WOTAN?
If you don't come up with somethign better than that, or I'll never reply to your handsomehunk Trolls agin... Your not argueing the points...
I'm this months KOTH (US) .. noone said anythign about stick stiring... and I had 15-20 people(vets) watching me in godeye mode... so go **** yourself man ...
Maybe you think a 'snap-roll' ... 'stall flip' is stick stiring .. I can assure it's not .... maybe you think when a guy stalls he's stick stiring .. he's not .... what would stick stiring be?.. moveing the rudder in quick movements along with a siccior fashion to throw off aim?... quite like german 109 pilots were fond of? Sounds to me like your throwing buzz words about because you have no "skill"..(agin I gather this conclusion from what you say, not seeing you fly)
Apperantly you don't undestand I said "skill" too, not just time in game .. I've been playing AH since late beta.... Oh ya and I know the evils of GEnie (was really a Cyberstike dweeb tho .....I Was young, and didn't appreciate AW :D).. so don't talk about experiance in frame of time... I've been 'around' awhile too, proably longer than you.
The fact that you complain about "stick stiring" and "HO's" really says to me you don't know WTF your talking about.
(this is the last post you'll see from me unless you argue instead of blowing hot air)
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Stall flip please. Moving your rudder and "stirring your stick" causes warps and if you are "experienced" as you claim then you know that. Call it "skill" all you want. Its more dweeb like then the HOs or being "rammed".
I didnt ask about your experience, you brought that up. Ah isnt my first game either so I dunno why you think that matters.
Until lag is completely gone from online games (which will be never) the current model is the best it can get.
If people are crashing into you quit stick stirring and you wont warp all over.
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I disagree. You fight the fight on your FE. If you collide on your FE, you should take damage.
I do, however, have a problem with lag collisions. A collision were the con warps into your plane. I wish HT would put in some code to check for impossible position changes just prior to collision.
F.
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saddens me that you read so little of what I write, but in turn argue so much ..guess it's human nature
from Fight Club (aproxmatly)"Most people arn't really listening, just waiting for thier turn to talk"
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Maybe silly, but what about friendly collisions?
IMHO it would be realistic. As example in IL-2 where friendly collisions exist, even taxiing on the ground. I know its a desaster if you want to take off fast :D But taking off now is more arcadish.
Just my 2 cents
Sailor
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Manedew everything that can be tried has been tried in the past.
What we have left is the only rational answer.
Anything else leads to people suiciding into other planes to kill them, or people seemingly exploding for no reason.
Either of which would cause massive screaming in the arena.
Don't want to die to collision, then don't run into him, its all in YOUR hands.
YOU are the only person who can cause or prevent collisions on your machine.
That is a fact of life, HT isn't going to change it, deal with it.
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STFU?
Have I somehow wandered onto a CS forum?:rolleyes:
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A collision were the con warps into your plane
Have ya even attcked a buff formation and killed the lead bomber then he rides that bomber in. As you then move to kill the drones they start warpin all over then you collide with one.
Those are sometimes frustrating.
Just FYI IL2/FB collisions are similiar to ah. One guy will collide and get damage and die and the other guy will fly off. Friendly collisions on has been tried in ah events and it was interesting but caused more problems then necessary. IL@ doesnt have 500-700 guys in an arena competing for kills.
Right now you control your plane. If you dont want to collide its up to you to position your plane on your front end in a spot where that doesnt happen. "Accidents" happen but most of the time if you collide its your fault.
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Ive been rammed when i was in no way attempting a HO.
One time i lost my tail when a yak flew into me. The point is one gets away scott free in a situation where both would be wrecked.
If someone gets a kill because the other guy has collided with him then there should be some kind of damage or penalty for getting the kill that way.If like you said only one guy sees the collision all the time then the theory of 2 people both trying to HO each other is a myth! :) When i do actually take a ho shot i usually fire at a distance and evade.This doesnt however always work and quite a few times ive been surprised by the collision.The people i see ramming me are usually firing all the way past without so much as a touch on their ailerons yet they fly past and i lose wings. If like you said they dont see the collision or arent pointing their nose right at you then why would they still be firing?.If they are BOTH trying for the HO they should BOTH pay the price. If one sees the HO and the server sees that the other DIDNT then no damage should be applied or moderate damage to the guy who DID see a collision(maybe loss of a whole wing full of guns would work here).Surely it would be possible to check what both FE's are seeing.
People are actually abusing the present system too by simply flying close to another aircraft and weaving around when they run out of ammo.On their FE they just wizz past very close but on the other guys FE he sees a collision because he sees the aircraft in a different point in the sky.If you dont think this would work take a look at a large number of players launching off the CV. On their FE they are on the deck but on others they can be as much as 300-400 yards away floating above the sea but still taking off.Apply this to an aircombat where you NEED to get within 300 yards and you get the overlap of positions which causes collisions. Happens in the scissors as mandoble says.
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friendly collisions could have a nice impact on people scrambling franticaly from a capped field. Make a few more spawn locations and telefrag anyone who sits in one of them for longer than X seconds, if a new player spawns on top of him.
// fats
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freindly impacts would cause mass screaming...sure it'd be funny at first but when NOONE could get off the ground it would be very annoying...its bad enough in a 3 feild 8 person arena...
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and they have "stick stirring" code in place already...ever move your stick about only to get a "do not move your controls so rapidly" message...its as sensivite as its gonna get to otherwise any mouse user that trys going into a roll to fast is going to fin themselves getting chuteshot
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Originally posted by fats
friendly collisions could have a nice impact on people scrambling franticaly from a capped field. Make a few more spawn locations and telefrag anyone who sits in one of them for longer than X seconds, if a new player spawns on top of him.
// fats
Or friendly collisions can be disabled while on the ground or while the gear is down so as to avoid base scrambling fiasco's.
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Originally posted by hazed-
I would say it should only register a collision if it is seen on both FE's.
This is atonishingly obvious. Just to take into consideration that plane A may "see" the collission at time T and plane B at time T + 1 sec (for example). So it is not as easy to code as "I've seen the collision, and you??" - "Not yet" ...
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Two other points about actual collision code:
1 - Even when both planes see the collision and both crash, only one will get the kill.
2 - I landed at an enemy runaway and placed my plane just few yards away from the enemy spawn point. My plane was stopped and few seconds later an enemy plane spawned at my back and rolled into me. My plane exploded while the other took off unharmed.
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What I want to know is why you were landing on an enemy field in the first place.
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If both FEs must see the collision for the collision to occur there will essentially be no collisions anymore.
Tactics to be derived from this involve things like intentionally flying through the target aircraft while firing as it is impossible to miss from one foot away from the target. This is not a small change and it would not be rare.
Another effect would be the switch to free form manuvering without regard to the proximity of your airframe to the enemies airframe. It would remove one of things that a combat pilot in a close dogfight needed to track from the game.
This kind of change in tactics essentially destroys any and all simulation of real world tactics. The rules have been changed so much that it is no longer a simulation of WWII air combat tactics.
Personally I have no interest in flying in an environment in which the need to avoid collisions is not part of the tactics used.
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exactly karnak. People fail to see how 1 thing effects another,
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--- AcId: ---
Or friendly collisions can be disabled while on the ground or while the gear is down so as to avoid base scrambling fiasco's.
--- end ---
I've never been fan of the unlimited spawns available, so I wouldn't mind if a field's through output of planes was somehow limited.
// fats
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oy! the current model sucks, imho. if two planes collide, i don't think one's gonna just fly away happily. either make it where both go poof, or don't have it at all, again, imho.
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BULL**** Collision model suxs in aces high.
I just roped a niki, shot the **** out of him, pulled out and it gave me a collision when i was atleast 50 - 100 yards from his canopy. Its an absolute joke and i hope its fixed.
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The current model certainly has some quarks in it. Rarely do I have a collision where both receive damage. And the occasions where that does happen, the damage is very wierd.
For example, I collided with a spitfire when I was in a hurricane. I lost my aileron, he lost his wing and was flaming. Another time I took off a wing of a 110 with my elevator. :D
But most of the time, I die while the other flys merrily on. Me and my dad think its because we have a fast connection.
What I think the collision model should be, and I'm sure there will be a lot who disagree, is the data on how the collision took place on the FE who saw it would be transmitted to the other persons FE, so the collision damage would be real. If one person sees a collision involving his wing on the other guys tail, the other guy's tail gets cut off, along with the first guy's wing.
Something along the lines of that I think would be cool, but it'd be wierd if you were the guy who's FE didn't see the collision. But at least this way, both are encouraged to not get too close, and one person doesn't get hosed while the other keeps going with no damage.