Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Hammerhead on June 01, 2003, 06:28:31 AM
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I have been flying the P38 a lot lately and i find it to be quite a nice bird......however i keep getting killed over and over by the same planes: Spit 14, Nik, La7 and the occasional well flown Spit9.
My standard move is to start an immelman at 300mph or at d2.0k whichever is first and then dive in on them and use the 20mm up close. (my gunnery isnt that good so i have to go close). Then dive away and repeat.
Works well enough with most planes but with these:
The spit 14 seems to zoom up right behind me in my immelman, whilst the niks and LA7 tend to outrun me in my dive. (i usually dive upto 450mph, to avoid compression)
Just yesterday i was at 15k when a nik appeared out of the blue at my 9 o clock at d3.0 and moved on to my 6 as i dived. Throughout the dive (from 300mph to 450mph) the nik was gaining ground and finally got me at d900.
Can anyone give me some tips as to what im doing wrong??:confused:
I have read somewhere tht killing LA7 is to go slow and scissor, but whenever i have tried the La7 refuses to go slow and ends up BnZooming me.......:(
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This was a p-38 learning tour for me as well. Once I learned what I can/can't do with it, it turned out to be a GREAT fighter.
vs. La7 - they have to get pretty close with their guns, so if they dive in at 450mph, they are easy to avoid. Ofcourse, if all they want it to take a shot and run, there's not much you can do about it. I find it easier to kill them on the deck where they can't just dive away from me. Around 20k the 38 will beat the easily, but the'll run away diving. Most La7 drivers aren't that good, so that solves part of the problem.
vs. nik - This is one of the best nik busters as long as you dont start at a total disadvantage. Use their over-eagerness to HO and yank on their stick, to drain their E. Your zoom is totaly and utterly superior to their if you start it over 300 mph. spiral at the end of the zoom if they start spraying - and they will!
Also, the only way to make a nik stall is if you force it to zoom straight up.
vs. spits - pretty much the same as the niks. the 9 and 14 are ok to turn with a little, but I wouldn't try it vs the 5. I didn't fight any spit 14 but it's faster and climbs much better then the 38. It has a real torque issue you can use to your advantage - always turn/spiral then to the left.
As I said, the p-38 has an amazing zoom (on the verge of suspicious) use it.
The P-47 is still more fun though ;)
Bozon
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Here are some P-38 films I posted awhile back that might help you out.
P-38 Films (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73435&highlight=P38+films)
More P-38 Films (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84329&highlight=p38+films)
And here's a thread about the P-38 with posts by other P-38 dweebs like OIO and myself about various maneuvers and tactics against some of the same planes you're having troubles with. In that thread I also posted a film of a duel with a Spitfire Mk XIV against me in a P-38L.
P-38 thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84329&highlight=p38+films)
Try using the vertical as much as you can in the P-38, it's probably one, if not the best, vertical fighter in the game because if its excellent energy retention and its very gentle stall characteristics. You can literally keep the P-38 standing on its tail in the vertical at speeds as low as 20mph.
It also helps to know about the planes you are facing too. Get to know the various planes strengths and weaknesses and use that to your advantage. For instance, with a Spitfire keep the fight above 300mph if possible because Spitfire is a better turner at 250mph and below while the P-38 has the advantage at 300mph+. If you find yourself in a slow speed turn fight, try to force the stall fight (speeds below 150mph) because once again the P-38 has the slight advantage in stall fights do to it's better stall speed handling, gentle stall characteristics and no torque but at mid-speed ranges the Spitfire will chew you apart.
The same with the N1K2, fight them as you would a Spitfire. With the slower speed of the N1K2 (as opposed to the Spitfire MK IX), it's easier to use vertical maneuvers against them, so that's the recommended tactic but if all else fails, stall fighting is another option against the N1K2 as they too have a slight disadvantage in a stall fight against a P-38.
You'll soon find out that the La7 is one of the easiest planes to fight against and is by far not the uber plane some whine it to be. The only real advantage the La7 has over the P-38 is its speed below 16,000ft. Above that altitude the P-38 pretty much holds most of the cards against it. But you have to be aware that while the La7 might not be able to out turn a P-38, it does have a better initial turn rate for the first few turns which a lot of La7 drivers use to maneuver for the head on shot and it also has a better roll rate at high speeds but drops off at lower speeds. The best tactic against them is to get them to turn fight, as the old saying goes, out turn the planes that can out run you...
But all this stuff is will do you no good if you don't know what the P-38 can do. You have to know how to use the flaps and when to deploy them in any given situation. Throttle control is another important factor, especially in maneuvers like rolling scissors where both flaps and throttle control are important for success.
As you've found out the P-38 is a fantastic plane to fly and fight in and if flown correctly one of the most dangerous foes you can run up against. I'm sure OIO will stop by this thread and post some of his thoughts and I suggest you read his posts as well. If you ever need any help in the P-38, just holler and one of us P-38 dweebs will come running.
One other thing, head on over to NetAces (http://www.netaces.org) and read Rocketman's lectures on the merge and Bullethead's lectures on Energy management and tactics if you haven't done so already. You'll be surprised on how their lectures will improve your flying and fighting.
Ack-Ack
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Hate to burst any bubbles... but the Spit 9 is completely and totally superior to the P-38. More firepower, better turning, better acceleration, better climbing. You *may* be able to out "stall-fight" a newbie in a Spit 9 if you are in a P-38, but a Spit 9 pilot that is half as good as you are will clean your clock.
I'm not certain about the N1K, but I'd wager the same holds true since they are essentially the same plane. The N1K turns better than the Spit 9 at low speeds (where the N1K can get its flaps out), but the Spit 9 rolls better and climbs better. Plus it has Hispanos. Actually below 10k (I think, 8-10k anyway) the N1K is actually faster than the Spit 9 is, and climbs better as well (which I would assume to mean accelerates better, but I'm not sure).
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I wouldn't get too worried about the Spit XIV because you are unlikely to meet many of them in the MA. In the CT or in the TA you see a lot of them (sometimes) but in the MA you don't. P-38 vs Spit XIV is not really all that fair anyway, the Spit does everything better.
Against a Spit IX, you have very little advantage in most areas though if you can keep your speed up you can do well. Use the vertical as much as you can, the P-38 hangs very well, an take lots of snapshots with your .50's, they can hurt a Spit IX pretty quickly.
One other thing to keep in mind, the P-38 is much faster than a Spit IX near the ground. The Spit IX can only do about 319mph with WEP (310 without) while the P-38 can do 344mph with WEP, 333 without. That is a fairly siginificant speed difference so if you can keep fairly fast and not have Spit's diving on you with extra speed, then you can simply walk away from them. Contrary to what Urchin said, the P-38 out-accelerates the Spit IX at every altitude, though the difference isn't likely enough to get you to safety (that info from tests in AH).
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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Thanks for all the replies....keep em coming......need all the help I can get.
Another question tht I would like u P38 gurus to answer for me is about combat trim. I have read and have been that told that the P38's combat trim is useful in such a small area that u can fly with it off. My query is if i fly with in on does it cause any deterioration of performance?
I am not very fluent with manual trimming and by experiment I have found that when using manual trim I accelerate slower in a dive whereas with combat trim i end up compressing almost every 2 out of 3 dives.....:confused: Generally diving from 15k to around 8 to 5k.
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Thanks for those lovely films ack ack........
I saw a few of em (4 now, will scrutinize others later).....
I saw the one where u shot the spit14, nice. The main tactic there was to go vertical and stay like that while rolling as the spit turned. Also noticed tht at the end, just before u nailed him, there was a sudden yaw to the left, guess u applied rudder, external views dont show tht though.......
How often is rudder input needed, generally speaking, cause I dont have any rudder pedals and I very rarely touch the rudder A,S and D keys....(usually only in turn fights).
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as for combat trim, you can search this forum and find several threads on the subject.
my POV on this is that it's a suicide device in the p-38 (and 109). when you dive the CT keeps trimming forward and resists your attempt to pull up, causing your elevator to "lock".
I used CT for a rough trimming - turning it on for a sec, them turning off. this way i get close to trimmed and I never do it in a high speed dive in the 38/109.
Bozon
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Combat trim is not useful in the P-38 because of the reason you mentioned and in my opinion it can keep you from pushing the envelope in the P-38. Lephturn wrote up an excellent article about it here (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/trim.htm). One of the good things about the P-38 is that you really don't have to mess with the trim at all, the only trim that you might have to adjust from time to time is the elevator trim. Because there is no torque, aileron and rudder trim isn't needed. If you need to trim your controls to neutral, just use the auto-level command to trim out your plane.
As for rudders, I've never flown the P-38 without using pedals and I use rudders to coordinate all my turns and use them to roll. You'll find them really useful in rolling scissors maneuvers because at low speeds the P-38 needs all the help it can to roll. Rudder pedals are highly recommended or at least a twisty stick joystick.
Ack-Ack
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Thanks ack ack, you have been a real help.......love those films.
Well as for rudders, looks like its shopping time......lol;)
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AKAK covered it pretty well, but just to add a general rule:
Hi E 38 vs Low E spit or nik=Excelent
(as described by akak)
Low E 38 vs Hi E spit or nik=ok
(pleanty of evasive options, and several ways to sucker them)
Equal E=Bad
If your 38 is co-E with a nik or spit you have 1-1/2 turns to do something after that use your superior acceleration.
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I am not the skilled 38 driver that I know some of the people in here are, put here are some of the manuvers I like to use.
These relate more to the CT then MA, being I hardly fly the MA.
Dive Brakes, I have used these with some success while diving on nme, they expect you to overshoot not lock on their six.
Also, I love forcing an overshoot by split S'ing or just drwing them into a dive and using the Dive Brake to force an overshoot.
Another manuver although I have not done it in AH is a double Immelman very few planes can follow a 38 in this manuver pending their E state of course.
I also think that a vest majority of drivers tend to keep their throttles floored, I cant stress the importance of using the throttles to help bleed E and tighten turns.
Expliot their speed and use it aginst them, let them black out while you manuver to their 6'0.
Also, skewing the plane to bleed is effective aswell, ie. using rudder and opposite airleron.
Let the blood letting begin ........ :D
Jospe
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Vs La7 the 38 sciscors or forces the La7 to enter a turning fight. Loops count as turning fights. La7 has excellent acceleration, 38 has great acceleration..but the 38 is a dragpotato, so during any turn/loop fights the 38 will win, especially if they get slow enough to use flaps on 38. La7's guns only deadly under d400, 38 can kill out to d1.1.
Vs Spitfires, the above posters are right, a spit5/9 outperform the 38 in turns, the 9 in climb, and all of them will dive with and catch a 38. However, the spits have one major achilles heel: They cant roll at high speeds (400+ mph), while the 38 becomes a Fw190 roller at said speeds. If a spit attacks you, dive to high speed, preferably a 90 degree dive. If the spit follows, you can just ROLL and turn and flat sciscor into the spit's 6.
Vs N1ks... Their fairy flight model allows their monster 2000HP engine to have perfect control below 100mph, it dives as good as a spit but without the massive loss of control, turns like a spit and has 4 bazookas that kill out to d1.2 with 1 ping. The only weaknesses a n1k has vs a 38 is their slower acceleration in LEVEL FLIGHT (aka, on the deck only) and their lower top speed (which is irrelevant since the P38 slows down to 320'ish after 10 seconds of leveling, while n1k will slow down to 300mph in like 20 seconds.. so if you dont have a lot of separation to start with, theres no way a 38 runs from a n1k). DO NOT go vertical with a n1k unless you have a MASSIVE E advantage (300mph more than the n1k ) and at least d1.8 of separation. The n1k will hang on its prop and spray you out of the sky. Hammerheads are not recomended vs n1ks either, that plane can helicopter nose up 90 degrees, then at 0 mph it will gently nose down (like a 38.. which is the peak of idiocy) and at a mere 50mph you can pull nose up and turn with full control. A 38 coming DOWN on it only has those 1 or 2 seconds to flip over, dive to gun range and shoot it down.. if it misses (which will happen if the n1k has turned) then the 38 has no choice but to dive past and away, which the n1k will then dive and follow and spray cannon for the 6 seconds it takes to get out of gun range.
vs spit14.. treat it like an La7 that has aversion to HO's ;)
Jospe: P38 does not have dive brake. You're thinking another sim. P38 dive FLAPS do not reduce speed whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Jospe2
Dive Brakes, I have used these with some success while diving on nme, they expect you to overshoot not lock on their six.
Jospe
Hmmmm...the dive flaps in the P-38 don't do that. You probably prevented the over shoot by chopping your throttle not by using the dive flaps. They just don't provide enough drag to slow the P-38 down like that, especially since that wasn't their purpose. The dive flaps changed the air flow over the wings to make pulling out of high speed dives easier.
Ack-Ack
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btw ackack, the 38's E-retention is one of the poorest in the game. Its literally a brick with engines. Dive to 500mph then level, count how long it takes for it to slow down to its top speed at that altitude. Thats e-retention. The only reason why the 38 cant run away from most planes in the arena is because of that e-retention. Compare it to a P51 or spitfire, they retain their above-top-speed-for-altitude far longer than a 38.
38 has great zoom climb though ;)
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Originally posted by OIO
btw ackack, the 38's E-retention is one of the poorest in the game. Its literally a brick with engines. Dive to 500mph then level, count how long it takes for it to slow down to its top speed at that altitude. Thats e-retention. The only reason why the 38 cant run away from most planes in the arena is because of that e-retention. Compare it to a P51 or spitfire, they retain their above-top-speed-for-altitude far longer than a 38.
38 has great zoom climb though ;)
Meant in the vertical.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Urchin
Hate to burst any bubbles... but the Spit 9 is completely and totally superior to the P-38. More firepower, better turning, better acceleration, better climbing.
LOL! Good One Urchin! That was a joke...right? OK I'll bite.
I freely admit that the Spit 9 is a better turner than the P-38 at low speeds, but any 38 jock worth his salt isn't going fight the spit where it holds its only real advatage. Wasn't it an actual RAF Spitfire pilot that said "turning doesn't win fights!" during a briefing on the relative merits of the Spitfire and Fw 190A?
Firepower? Sure, 2 hispanos and 2 .50s hits a little harder than 1 hispano and 4 .50s, but only near convergence for the wing-mounted setup and only until the 20mm ammo is gone. Then what? A pair of .50s with 100 or so rpg is really only adequate to possibly save your butt while you rtb for more ammo (yes, I know many spit drivers only fire the cannon until it's gone, but you're still left with only a pair of .50s). In the 38 you still have 4 .50s with well over 1000 rds total and no convergence issues.
Soda already addressed acceleration so I'll leave that one alone. The difference in climb rates is small enough to be fairly insignificant. That said however, the 38 will outclimb the spit at 250 ias or more. BTW how fast will a spit climb with 2000 lbs and 10 HVARs slung beneath it? :p
Finally, toughness. The Lightning can absorb an amazing amount of lead and still fly home, and the benefits of a second engine here are obvious. All you have to do is look cross-eyed at a Spitfire and the wings fall off.
So, yes...The Spitfire Mk. IX is completely and totally superior to the P-38L at making tight low speed turns. For everything else one might ask of a WWII fighter I'll take the Lightning thank you very much.
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I'd say the Spitfire would probably take 8 of 10 or so from a P-38 in a 1v1 fight. Assuming the pilots are of equal skill anyway. I've played around in the DA with both planes (in a P-38 vs Spit IX) and the Spit IX has a huge advantage. The P-38 can't even bore n zoom the Spit for very long before the Spit has equallized the energy. And once you lose that initial E advantage you have no options (except for just plain running). You try to climb away and the Spit will catch up and blast you, you try to dive away and the Spit will catch up and blast you, you try to 'knife-fight' and the Spit will eat you alive.
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You're assuming alot of mistakes on the part of the 38 jock. The first and biggest being the decision to engage a better turning enemy co-E. Using that same logic we could say that the A6M5b is totally superior to the Spit 9 because it holds the upper hand in a turning contest. If the Spit fights the zeke's fight it dies just as quickly as a 38 would fighting on the spitty's terms.
In my experience, I can BnZ a lower spit in a 38 all day if I want to, but they usually go down pretty quickly unless its pilot is very skilled and patient. You're right that climbing or diving away can be very risky if you don't do it right. Climb too steeply or keep the nose down too long in a dive and sure enough the Spit will close on you. However, if you keep the climb fast and shallow you'll get away more often than not. The 38 has great accel in the initial moments of a dive but almost anything will catch it once your speed gets much over 400mph. The trick is to get that head-start and level off before it evaporates. Again, if you do it right the spit will have a hard time keeping pace.
The Spitfire is a very good defensive fighter, but the faster plane usually dictates the fight and that's the 38s trump card here. If all else fails it can run away and I'm not ashamed to do so if I find myself at a disadvantage. After all, I play AH for my own enjoyment, not to provide Spit drivers with lots of easy kills by fighting their fight.
I realize that I'm biased, but factor in the 38s range and multi-role capability to this whole equation and you have a more versatile and imo, a better warplane.
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Thank you for all the good advice folks. I bought a new Saitek cyborg 3d usb stick.....rudder really does help.
Now I face a new foe..........AUTORETRACT.
Yesterday was fighting a chog, had bled his E so was turning for the kill and was 2 seconds away from a solid killing blow, when all of a sudden......wroooooorrrrr.... ..flaps retract.....lose the angles..... stall.........dive......recov er.....F4u on my six, 4 hits im dead.
The F4u was turning with a nose down attitude and for a split second or two I must have gone over 200mph..
To cut a long story short, is there any way i can disable autoretract???????
:confused: :confused:
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No you can't.
You could argue that a couple of mph shouldn't make any difference, but some could also argue that they post a limit on flap deployment for a reason so they aren't damaged. A catch 22, I don't think they would be damaged at 251mph vs 250, but you have to set a limit somewhere. If not, it would be all subjective and people would complain about that. Best instant turn rate on the P-38 without flaps is around 260mph anyway so above that flaps aren't helping you any(IAS at sea-level). At 260mph you are pulling max G's (blackout) without use of flaps.
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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The autoretract 'feature' is killing the P-38 as you have discovered.
Its just sad that the ONE plane that depends 100% on its flaps is porked because of that feature.
As far as P-38 vs Spit9, pilots of = skill, i'd put my money on the spit9.
The 38 only has 2 advantages over the spit: it out-accelerates the spit and that advantage only works below 200mph (above 200mph the spit9 accels faster) and has very good roll rate at high speeds (above 350mph).
P38 vs Spit9 below 200mph, spit wins hands down because it has exponentially better manouverability.
Above 350mph the 38 wins because the spit9's cant roll worth a damn and the 38 can manouver rather well.
So far the one manouver a 38 can hope to try and pull vs a coalt,co-e spit is to dive and use the 38's better roll rate to peel away and escape. Going vertical or turning is suicidal (note: if pilots=skill). Either that or HO and shoot from d1.2 to d800, then start the dive-away.
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OIO, you need to be a bit more objective about this. The P-38 has plenty of areas of advantage but sustained turning isn't one of them. The P-38 has a clear speed advantage (it's 333mph vs 310 at sea-level), an acceleration advantage at all altitudes (slow and fast), a complete firepower advantage, and a host of other issues in regards to load carrying and survivability.
The whole flaps thing, well, I can appreciate it to some point, but if you look at the EM diagrams for the P-38 you can see that max G is available at about 260mph without flaps and the last notch of flaps only retracts at 250mph. That leaves a VERY small window in which you really see any loss from the flaps retracting. You may think it's hurting you, but in reality it isn't. Fact is though that the Spit turns WAY better and has a max instantaneous turn rate/speed that is 34 deg/sec @ 220mph. The P-38 is only 28 deg/sec @ 265mph... the P-38 can't hope to compete in a turn fight like that (or at least it'll come down to the pilot and not the plane).
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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That may well be true soda....and whilst it may be ideal to get max turn rate at 260mph, the P38 can and does outturn many aircraft under tht speed..but i was talking about a turnfight with a F4U at 200mph, with 2 notches of flaps. Since I accelerated for only few seconds to over 200mph (and then dropped under 200 again), I lost the fight, because the second my flaps retracted I lost my turn rate (at under 200mph) and the f4u could build on tht slight advantage during the time it took to redploy the flaps.......
Hope in the next version they allow people to select autoretract enable/disable option. I would rather stress the flaps (unto breaking point if need be) rather than lose my turning ability.
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Originally posted by Soda
OIO, you need to be a bit more objective about this. The P-38 has plenty of areas of advantage but sustained turning isn't one of them. The P-38 has a clear speed advantage (it's 333mph vs 310 at sea-level), an acceleration advantage at all altitudes (slow and fast), a complete firepower advantage,
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
I'm honestly not sure about the acceleration, to be honest with you. The Spit is one of the best accelerating planes in the game, in my experience. Also... the P-38 has more firepower than the Spitfire? Can I have some of whatever you have been smoking?
Spitfires got two 1 hit kill cannons, and 2 .50s. The P-38 has 4 .50s and 1 cannon. I'd say the Spitfire probably puts out about 10 .50s worth in firepower, and the P-38 is about 8.
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Soda, here's why i say what I said in my previous post:
1) P38 does not accelerate better than spit9 ABOVE 200mph. 38 goes from 0 to 200mph really fast when level, spit does it a bit slower (about 30% slower imo). Above 200mph the spit will accel to 300mph in almost half the time the 38 does.
2) Spit retains E way,way,way better than the P-38. In combat, a spit will catch up to the 38 if the 38 has no more room to dive. Aka, both dive from 10k to 2 ft off the water, both planes at speeds nearing 500mph... P38's better initial accel in dive gained it a separation of say, d1.2 . Once on the deck, both planes level, the P-38 will slow down to its 333mph top speed in about half the time the spit9 will, allowing the spit9 to catch up and have E advantage vs the 38 on the deck.
3) Flap retract is a huge issue because any 38 driver worth its salt would not even use flaps unless engaged in a turnfight (and face it, if you under 250mph and fighting in a 38, its a turnfight) or stall-fight (usually vertical). It is NOT cool to have gained angles against a spit (and yes it can happen) by using flaps and rudder roll and all the sudden having your plane spin out of control just because the speed indicator hits the 250mph tickmark for 1/10th of a second WHILE you are pulling heavy g's (aka, you're going for a shot) and clicked the fairy autoretract feature.
When in the MA, do film every 38 you come across, I will guarantee you that those that try to outmanouver you (turn, vertical , loop) will spin or stall or lose angles one or more times during that fight. If you watch the film closely, you will notice a split second gap between the flaps retracting and the 38 spinning or losing control. Coincidence? I dont think so.
4) Firepower: In AH 2 .50 cals=1 20mm hispano. Spit 2X20mm 2X.50 = 6 .50 cals equivalent. P38 has 4X.50's and 1X20mm = 6 .50 cal equivalent.
Nose armament seems to be worthless with the current damage model. Get a P-51b, put its convergence to 150 on all guns, go shoot a B17's wing from d600. You will see sprites all over the wing and it will fall off in half a second burst thanks to some magic BB hitting the spot that detaches wing/wingtip or something of the sort. Get P-38 and do the same, the B17s wing will not fall out until you have put maybe a second or more of 50 cal ammo on the same spot. BUT! Use your rudder to spray left and right and you get same result as bpony. Magic BB.
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Where to start....
Acceleration, OIO, I suggest you test it. My tests showed the P-38 winning at all speeds, slow and fast. The margin was small, but the excess speed potential and thrust of the P-38 won at all altitudes I tested (sea-level, 10K and 18K). As I said, the margin was small though, not enough to escape with (though no acceleration margin in AH is enough, not even the vaunted La7). Spit does tend to be in the top 10 accelerators but that's a pretty crowded group with very close times (measured in portions of a second).
No arguement about Spit E retention, but you can't compare any plane in the game to the Spit in that regards. nothing compares (the Tempest is close for a while). 90% of the time when I think a Spit out-accelerated me in a P-38 it's actually because he came out of the initial merge with more speed because of his superior E retention.
Firepower on the P-38 is totally fine. 1 hispano vs 2, true, but also twice the .50's with twice the ammo for each gun. Center mounting also does make a difference, to say otherwise is silly. If you want to compare it as inferior, why not throw in something with 4 hispanos. I think the 2 vs 2 contest at the convention was won on a D1.1 shot with a P-38.... I know I've actually made my longest kill with a P-38 at ranges over D1.0
I don't know that I've ever spun a P-38 because of flaps. I tend to use them in very short bursts, only seconds long, so my speed doesn't have time to vary much though. I have had them retract though in the middle of a shot (especially around 250mph). Thing is, I know that at 260mph I don't need flaps anymore, they simply don't help. They don't improve turn-rate since you are G limited at 260mph anyway, they don't improve turn-radius (same reason), etc.... below 250mph they work (and do improve turn, radius) but they won't retract until technically I don't need them anymore. I rarely use more than 1 notch of flap, usually only at the top of a zoom or in an absolute emergency since the drag penalty is somewhat extreme.
Comparing to a Spit is somewhat unfair anyway. He has way more turn-potential at all speeds than the P-38, sustained. He's capable of pulling something around 34 deg/sec at 220mph while your BEST will be more in the 30 deg/sec at 240mph (with flaps). that's decisive in the Spits favor.
Hammerhead, the F4U was probably riding the flaps pretty hard too... he has the same issues as you do and his snapstall is way worse. I simply haven't seen the snapstall
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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Hammerhead, I read your comments earlier on the auto-retract, but did not have time to post then. Soda's subsequent comments on it hit the mark. 38 tops my kills in stat every tour, and I almost never have a snap stall from the auto-retract for the very same reasons. I only use flaps in short bursts, and constantly retract them to my percieved need for less drag. From time to time they do auto-retract in a turn, however in those situations I am following the G limit on the pilot and not the stall/elev angle on the plane. The only way to get a snap stall during the auto retract is if you were riding the edge of stall when it happens. I think with a little experience you will find that softening up on G force when speed picks up will eliminate most occurances.
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Does anyone know where I can find an EM Diagram from the P38.
If someone has one can u please e-mail me a copy at hazard69_2003@yahoo.com
I would appreciate it if i could have one with just the P38 and no other planes on it, since i basically just want to know the flight envelope, for altitudes of 0k,10k,15k and 20k.
Thanks in advance.
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I'll send you what I have.
-Soda
Aces High Trainer Corps
The Assassins.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'm honestly not sure about the acceleration, to be honest with you. The Spit is one of the best accelerating planes in the game, in my experience. Also... the P-38 has more firepower than the Spitfire? Can I have some of whatever you have been smoking?
Spitfires got two 1 hit kill cannons, and 2 .50s. The P-38 has 4 .50s and 1 cannon. I'd say the Spitfire probably puts out about 10 .50s worth in firepower, and the P-38 is about 8.
The Spitfire is considered a high lethality plane while it still has it's 20mm cannon but once the 20mm rounds runs out, the lethality lowers to low, while the P-38 maintains a medium lethality throughout.
Ack-Ack