Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ring on June 01, 2003, 05:52:58 PM
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since most of us play more then 1 game i though some of you would be intrested...
http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8801&parent_id=2679684&page=1
7-Day FREE Trial 0f WWII-Online is still going on till the 9th..
if you interested in more then just air to air.. it offers the LARGEST MMPOG continous map with no "zones" and some of the unites you can play are
infantry
air
boats
tanks
scout cars
trucks
AA guns
AT guns
with new stuff added every patch
some of the things coming to the game are..
http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/dg_threads.jsp?group_id=8821
if you want to check out some screen shots go look here...
http://www.gamescreenshots.com/smallthumbs.asp?category=pc&game_id=302
A new 7-day FREE trial kicked off today powered by our friends at GIGEX.
Now's the time to tell your buddies to download and try WWII Online for FREE.
Once a player ends his 7-day FREE trial, he can purchase an activation key for $19.99 and get another 30 days of playtime before the monthly subscription fee of $12.99 kicks in. There's no need to go find a retail box, now they can buy online!
Here's a list of important links:
- Download the FREE Trial at Gigex
- Trial FAQ
- Download complete, how do I create an account?
- I didn't get the registration e-mail
- WWII Online System Specs
- AXIS HIGH COMMAND
- ALLIED HIGH COMMAND
this is the map
(http://www.tgpo.net/images/fun/SwgCompareSmall.jpg)
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World War II Online. Hmmm, never heard of it.
...are you getting paid?
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Me and about 10 other squadies got burned by playnet,,
no thanks
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O'Club... but then you knew that already didn't you?
MiniD
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Some of you may harbor past resentments towards CRS... But remember it wasn't their fault, Strategy first made them release WAY before they were suppose to.
Strategy first forces ALL of their games to release early.. They are bad producers, but CRS is a highly skilled development team that has turned the game around dramatically in 2 years.
If you ever liked WW2 simulations, you owe it to yourself to give WW2OL another try... It has come so far that you won't even recognize it.
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There is nothing sinister about WW2OL's trial offer... It's just done differently than AH's.
Intially, you pay a little less for AH and get a few more days, but in the long run WW2online is $2 less than AH.
And IMO, you get more bang for your buck with WW2OL in terms of gameplay.
It's the best incarnation of the combined arms simulation to date.
The air element alone is better modeled than AH (AH may have numerical more planes, but WW2online has a higher fidelity flight and damage model which makes it better in the long run)... Plus you get tanks, infantry, and naval units all fighting for a persistant strategic goal.
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ug just tired it.
Cant map my sticks worth a darn. Im so used to the AH mapper. In WW2O you need to know the number that pertains to the button you want to map, cant just click it and it lights up. ( unless im doing something wrong).
Went into game and it locked my pc up twice. Not sure if it lagged me out or what. Im having a hell of time trying to trying this. Maybe another 30mins to setup it up and then I delete.
What a pain to get started.
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In WW2O you need to know the number that pertains to the button you want to map, cant just click it and it lights up. ( unless im doing something wrong).
WW2OL supports clicking a button and having it appear on the keymapper....
The same thing happened to me when I first installed a new joystick... Wish I remembered how to fix it, but I don't.
Check in with the community support forums and they will fix you up...
Support forum here (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiol/forums.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1186187894.1054519836@@@@&BV_EngineID=dadchgglehembjjcgmcggichhl.0)
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Er, 230km by 120km is not[/u] this biggest MMOG.
AH is currently up to 512 miles by 512 miles.
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Now, I almost never crash to desktop...
But that's probably because I have all the latest drivers, windows updates, and defrag the computer often.
Also, you will need a decent system to run WW2online... Don't expect much if you haven't upgraded since AH first came out.
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Originally posted by TW9
hmm thinking of going to their website and mentioning the fact that ah offers 2 free weeks and doesnt require a credit card for the trial and u dont need to pay for a freaking "key"... lol 30 days free my ars.. Sounds to me like ur paying 19.99 for 37 days..
Hmm 12.99 per month, free 7days which would be equal to just over $3 dollars.. and 19.99 for 30 days.. if u were to pay to play for 37 days it would be around $16... Seems im getting screwed here..
WW2 online deal
-$4
AH Deal
+$7.50
I know my math isnt exact.. just rounded off the numbers.. Am i wrong though?
Sure its cheaper /mo.. but would u wanna play a game owned by a company that screwed u when u originally signed up? And if u think about it ur saving a whopping 75 cents a week playing ww2..
Please, spare me the can of soda.. Maybe if u throw in an extra quarter a week so I could put an extra buck in brenda's thong at the golden bananna (local strip club), i'd think about it..
Except you have to be a subscribed player to post on their boards.
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Free trail users can post.
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What Mini D said.
(It irriates me that you didn't put it in the OT thread. Shows a total lack of class, coming to the AH board and posting a free ad when you gotta be a payer to post on the WW2OL boards.)
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You can let old hate for WW2OL get in your way of playing... but you aren't doing yourself any favor as a gamer by ignoring the best WW2 combined arms simulation ever built.
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**** you, you ****ing ****.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
...The air element alone is better modeled than AH (AH may have numerical more planes, but WW2online has a higher fidelity flight and damage model which makes it better in the long run)...
That is some funny ****.
CRS will never ever see another dime from me.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
You can let old hate for WW2OL get in your way of playing... but you aren't doing yourself any favor as a gamer by ignoring the best WW2 combined arms simulation ever built.
What are you talking about? We're not ignoring Aces High.
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Karnak, when was the last time you played WW2online?
I'm not trying to put down Aces High, but the fact is it's just not a combined arms simulation.
It's a flight simulator with vehicles for you to play around in when you are bored with flying.
Now, it's not that there is anything wrong with being a game like that... But to call it a combined arms simulator, let alone one better than WW2Online, is just factually false.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
The air element alone is better modeled than AH (AH may have numerical more planes, but WW2online has a higher fidelity flight and damage model which makes it better in the long run
Really ??
I'd say with a statement like that givin the current state of WWIIonlines flight models, the use of spell checker wouldn't make much difference either way.
Zero my friend, besides having bad taste posting it here, you need to realize we don't live in a vacuum.
nopoop
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
It's a flight simulator with vehicles for you to play around in when you are bored with flying.
And WW2OL is a ground combat simulator with planes for you to play around in when you're bored with tanks or infantry.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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For a taste of what went into the WW2OL flight model click here (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8809&parent_id=1835601) for a small sample of what goes into calculating aircraft damage.
That is why WW2OL is so taxing on your CPU... because it must calculate armor penetration, location, and internal component damage as the bullet travels through your airframe.
This is not the arbitrary locational hit point system one has grown use to in flight sims.
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And WW2OL is a ground combat simulator with planes for you to play around in when you're bored with tanks or infantry.
You just pulled that statement out of thin air because it sounded good.
You have no real experience in WW2OL to back that up.
I would pay good money for you to show me one post on the offical forums that the players think WW2OL is ground centric.
If anything, the players will tell you that WW2OL is too air centric bceause of how powerful air units can be in turning a battle.
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I don't mean to be rude, but will you please go away.
Of course feel free to post here again once you take a screen shot your post in the general forum of WW2OL about AH's 2 week free trial.
Until then, you are just a CRS lap dog.
bye.
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I was considering trying wwIIol, untill you guys began spamming our boards .
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I was considering trying wwIIol, untill you guys began spamming our boards .
You're a bit over sensitive if you think one thread is spam.
I'm sure Ring was only trying to give a friendly reminder to people like you that right now would be an opportune time to try WW2OL if there ever was one.
As for me, I simply dropped in to answer questions and correct the inaccuracies about WW2OL that popped up.
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1 thread is not spamming.
only subscribers can post for a reason,we would be getting spammed non stop 24 hours a day if anyone could post.
infact just during this free trial our forum has been spammed non stop day and night by a few dozen free trial accounts.
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hmm thinking of going to their website and mentioning the fact that ah offers 2 free weeks and doesnt require a credit card for the trial and u dont need to pay for a freaking "key"... lol 30 days free my ars.. Sounds to me like ur paying 19.99 for 37 days..
Hmm 12.99 per month, free 7days which would be equal to just over $3 dollars.. and 19.99 for 30 days.. if u were to pay to play for 37 days it would be around $16... Seems im getting screwed here..
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youve got it all wrong,there is a 7 day free trial out,you dont need a credit card for it and you dont have to pay a dime for it.
then there is the 30 day trial,if you go to a store and buy the game it costs $20,and you get 30 days of free play time with it.
after that you can pay $13 a month to play.
that $20 is the money you'd pay to buy the game in the store,so basically you just ordered the game online.
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Thanks for clearing that up chaunsey, I didn't think you had to pay anything for the 7 day trial, but I wasn't sure because I hadn't done it myself.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
If anything, the players will tell you that WW2OL is too air centric bceause of how powerful air units can be in turning a battle.
Oh, wait, are we now talking about the usefulness of the airplanes rather than the accuracy of their flight models?
In that case, I can assure you that a coordinated attack by ground vehicles in Aces High certainly works. They're quite effective at thwarting air attacks and base captures as well.
So since our new measuring stick appears to be "usefulness" or "power," I'd say the non-airplane units in Aces High do just fine.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Wouldnt be cool to have a shotout.. Say,,ten of our top players vs ten of theirs.. Have duels in each game and see what comes of it. My money is on the hometeam.
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Im always up for new things Ill give it a try in a bit. I gotta go fly my 38 right now though. Is there a P38 in WW2 online?
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Some of you may harbor past resentments towards CRS... But remember it wasn't their fault, Strategy first made them release WAY before they were suppose to.
Strategy first forces ALL of their games to release early.. They are bad producers, but CRS is a highly skilled development team that has turned the game around dramatically in 2 years.
If you ever liked WW2 simulations, you owe it to yourself to give WW2OL another try... It has come so far that you won't even recognize it.
It's just extremely bad form to spam an advert for a game on the rival's message boards.
Ack-Ack
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Dead Man, you're obviously very confused.
Let's back up to what you originally said:
And WW2OL is a ground combat simulator with planes for you to play around in when you're bored with tanks or infantry.
You were clearly making an assertion about WW2OL's gameplay in that statement. Saying that it all focused around the ground units with air being a side show.
Which is 100% false in every way.
Somehow you have now warped that around to mean that what you originally said was only refering to the accuracies of the tank and infantry models vs the air models?
Well then again you are still 100% false, because the vehicles and infantry are modeled with the same level of fidelity as the air models are.
Having never even played the game yourself, you should avoid such wide sweeping accusations.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
You were clearly making an assertion about WW2OL's gameplay in that statement. Saying that it all focused around the ground units with air being a side show.
[/B]
And you were making an assertion about ground vehicles in Aces High that were 100% false. I'm willing to bet that the Ostwind had more kills last tour than the top plane. Ground vehicles are hardly useless or a side show. They are, in fact, essential to an effective base defense.
Well then again you are still 100% false, because the vehicles and infantry are modeled with the same level of fidelity as the air models are.
[/B]
LOL! You're trying to get us to join up, right? With statements like this, you're not going to win any converts.
Having never even played the game yourself, you should avoid such wide sweeping accusations.
Oddly, I have played the game before. But since the truth doesn't seem to stop you, I'm not about to let it stop you now.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Is there a P38 in WW2 online?
Not right now, but it's slated for develpment.
The development cycles have sped up dramatically in the last few patches, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see one around late summer or early fall.
(Not that it would take that long for the P38 to be built, but they have a very agressive list of things they want to do before then).
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Originally posted by SunKing
Wouldnt be cool to have a shotout.. Say,,ten of our top players vs ten of theirs.. Have duels in each game and see what comes of it. My money is on the hometeam.
LOL Sun...I wish..
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Tried it.
WWIIOL is utter crap (as far as planes go, ground vehicles dont really interest me), thanks anyway for the offer.
The flight model over there is bull****,Stukas can outloop Spitfires, you can land your 109 on the ocean, then put your gear down. your plane will rise up, and you can taxi around on the water.
Pretty realistic damage/physics model there wouldnt you say?
CRS ripped me off when I payed AU$ 80 for their buggy code in a box, that upset me, and they would have to come up with some pretty fancy discounts on subscription to get me back as a customer.....(we're talkin' fully refund me they money they swindled when I bought it)..I'm fairly certain that I am not alone in feeling that way.
On top of that, add the whining hordes of little kids with big egos, and you have about as much chance of getting guys like me to play that crap as a snowball would in Hell.
have a nice day.
Blue
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And you were making an assertion about ground vehicles in Aces High that were 100% false.
I never said that. Point out where you think I did.
LOL! You're trying to get us to join up, right?
I'm not here to convince you about anything, just to give you an informed opinion about WW2OL.
With statements like this, you're not going to win any converts.
What is wrong with the factual statement I made that WW2OL's tanks and aircraft are modeled with the same level of fidelity?
Oddly, I have played the game before.
You can claim you did, but we don't know... Regardless, your innaccurate statements demostate how you haven't played for any signifigant amount of time, let alone played recently.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The flight model in WW2OL is akin to the old RR flight model of AW with black/redouts turned on. And yes I've played, been playing off and on since it first came out and the flight model isn't all that it's cracked up to be. The boxed game IL2's flight model is far superior than anything WW2OL can come up with.
Isn't it comforting to know that CRS models the infantry and vehicles with the same level of fidelity as the airplanes?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Now since you wanted to bring up the differences between ground vehicles, the pivotal difference between AH vehicles and WW2OL vehicles is in both their damage modeling and how they are employed.
In WW2OL, vehicles damage is modeled the same way air damage is... Meaning, they put all your internal components and crew positions inside the vehicle, they slap armor thickness on, and then they even calculate the difference in penetration values between the different qualities and german, french, and british armor.
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Take Bluedogs opinion for what it's worth - an opinion that was formed two years ago at the games rushed release.
If you want to harbor blind hate for WW2OL forever because you feel like you got ripped off, go for it.
But you are only hurting yourself as a gamer for missing out on the best WW2 combined arms simulation to date.
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Allright.... who stepped in some hardcase? The smell is awfull. Everyone check their shoes.
MiniD
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You've got me wrong, my initial opinion was formed 2 years ago, yes, but i didn't give up, I kept popping back for a look with every patch, hoping that they had finally got it right.
Alas, to this very day, I have been disappointed each and every time.
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Karnak
actually the map is flyable 980km X 980km
http://www.freewebs.com/nrakjar/maps.html
(http://www.freewebs.com/nrakjar/wooo.jpg)
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you can land your 109 on the ocean, then put your gear down. your plane will rise up, and you can taxi around on the water.
Landing interaction has nothing to do with how a plane flies or takes damage.
In respect to the last two, WW2OL is better than everything but IL-2:Forgotten battles.
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ring killer has said its actually flyable more then that hehe
it may be possible to fly in 1 direction and come back around the other he said,but nothnig has that much fuel and there is no modeled terrain or ocean even that far out i believe.
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ww2ol's weapon modeling still beats il2's hit point system...
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Originally posted by SunKing
Wouldnt be cool to have a shotout.. Say,,ten of our top players vs ten of theirs.. Have duels in each game and see what comes of it. My money is on the hometeam.
in an air fight your guys may win due to the fact you play basically an air only sim.
in a combined arms assault we'd wipe the floor with you guys :-)
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That's not true chaunsey...
If they came into WW2OL they would get spanked by our dedicated pilots.
But then again, if our pilots went into AH they would probably get spanked too because they simply are not as familiar with AH's flight model.
The more realistic enviroment WW2OL pilots are use to could actually hinder them when moving down the ladder.
Just like how the AH guys could go duel someone in fighter ace and would probably get their bellybutton handed to them...
Every flight model is so different that you can't just pick one up and get the same results.
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My point is zeroace, that your claimed 'superior' flight model, is a farce, and the ground behaviour of aircraft is too.
Most guys on this board are interested in planes for some strange reason, and IMHO, the planes here are more interesting, and behave in a more realistic fashion than those of WWIIOL.
The ground vehicle/infantry war may be another story alltogether, but I am interested in flying, not tanking, so, I'm here, not there.
If on the other hand CRS ever do get it right, and do infact build a game that surpasses AH's offerings in the air to air combat scene, I will most definately be interested in having another look, untill then, I remain convinced that WWIIOL is crap.
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then maybe a more common ground fight would be appropriate.
like if the duel were played in il2:Fb.
still,even then i think the rats are our best pilots and could hand anyone their assess hehe
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WW2OL is factually a superior flight model in every respect.
It is incomplete in some areas as you pointed out with landings, but what it does have is done better.
Unrealistic landings do not impair the aircrafts performance in the air or it's ability to take and and recieve damage.
That is why it has gone unaddressed for so long because it's really a non-issue.
Because WW2OL was rushed, they had many more important things to get done before going to the trivial stuff.
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Now, if you guys really want to duel the WW2OL pilots we'd be happy to arrange such a thing.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
WW2OL is factually a superior flight model in every respect.
Please explain to me in what way/s?
I've flown both and fail to see it.
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The damage model needs no explanation at this point.
The flight model runs off pure physics, not speed tables, at a much more detailed level than even the regular IL-2, which is one of the reasons it taxes your CPU so heavily.
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The biggest problem with WW2OL is the unbelieveably slow development. It's been out for 2 years and they still haven't modelled Paris or London, yet the entire game (initial release) is about the blitzkrieg that occured in the western europe theatre in 1940..who would have known that the actual battle took so much less time than the development of the game LOL!
They don't have the naval game in, only a handful of planes, a few tanks per side, no real supply system yet, no artillery, no LMGs, ect...The list goes on and on.
Also no point in subscribing if you want to fly...you can't spawn anything but the basic plane unless you are up there in rank, and then most of the time the planes are out of supply (attrited) so you cant even spawn the basic ones.
The game also has an extremely high learning curve, as one of the posters found out with the unwieldy keymapper they have.
Maybe in about 10 years the game might be worth checking back on and seeing if they have finished the french theatre yet...
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The biggest problem with WW2OL is the unbelieveably slow development.
That use to be a problem, but development cycles have really sped up to an incredible pace!
We get a patch about every month now loaded with new vehicles, features, tweaks to old stuff, and graphical improvements.
There was a dry spell of patches for another a year as they spent long periods of time overhauling some of the old and incomplete systems.
They are over that now and things are moving along at a great clip.
They don't have the naval game in,
False, there is a navy. In fact we are getting destroyer class ships for all three countries in patch 1.9, which should be out in a week or two.
only a handful of planes, a few tanks per side, no real supply system yet,
False, false, false.
PLANES:
H-75
H-81
DB-7
Havoc I
Blen I
Blen IV
Blen Torpedo Bomber
Bf109E
Bf109F
Bf110
bf110C4
Spitfire I
Spitfire Vb
Hurricane MKI
Hurricane MKIIc
Ju-87 Stuka
He-111
Planes slated to come next that I can recall:
FW-190
Typhoon or some later spitfire variant.
Ju-88
P-39
Wellington bomber.
TANKS and VEHICLES:
Matilda MKII
A13
A15 Crusader
Daimler Dingo
Vickers
Skdfs 232
Panzer IIIF
Panzer IIIH
Panzer II
Panzer IV
T38
S-35
Char B1-bis
R-38
H-39
Panhard
StugIIIB
Sdfks tower
Morris tower
Bedford truck
Opel truck
Laffy truck
There is more, but this is all I can remember off the top of my head.
That doesn't even include all the anti-tank and AA guns.
no LMGs, ect...
Already in development, to be followed by infantry mortars and anti-tank rifles.
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Guys,
I know you like your game and whatnot, but WWIIOL is a joke.
The vast majority of people here have tried it repeatedly, myself included.
You come here with egotistical statements and no clue as to what you are talking about and expect people to try your game? You insult all of us and you think that'll make us want to try WWIIOL?
In general I do think WWIIOL's GVs are done better. That said, AH does model armor thickness on GVs as well, though its component modeling is simpler.
The flight modeling on the other hand isn't even close and the statements you are spewing are only hurting your cause. The flight models over there are such a joke that I couldn't even consider it a flight sim last time I tried it.
The other problem is the fact that every time I've tried it it has been rife with show stopping and game ruining bugs.
Add to that the fact that I have never gotten usable frame rates. I have an Athlon XP 1800+, 512mb DDR 266, an Ultra SCSI hard drive setup and a GeForce4 4600 with 128mb and the game was still unplayble due to low frame rates.
Sorry, you can't sell it.
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You sure they have a Spitfire Mk IV? That was the prototype Griffon engined Spitfire that was never produced and never saw action.
I understood that they'd added the Spitfire Mk Vb.
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Thanks for listing the vehicles and supporting my claim.
Oh yeah the dev cycles are so fast now LOL! Like I said its been 2 years and they aren't anywhere near finished with the western theatre.
LMGs have been promised for over a year, they aren't in yet.
Having boats does not constitute a navy, and the DDs are just big boats, no real navy after 2 years.
You have English, French and German, each have only a handful of tanks and planes, many are just variants of the same base design...even after 2 years, they haven't added much at all to the game...though WWIIOL players will disagree, since they've been brainwashed to be satisfied with less from a game company.
Oh did I mention that each battle is over a little town with an army factory in it? Then when you take the town the next battle is....over a little town with an army factory in it...LOL! Talk about monotonous.
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In general I do think WWIIOL's GVs are done better. That said, AH does model armor thickness on GVs as well, though its component modeling is simpler
AH takes amor thickness into account when modelling it's hit point system.
Nothing out there reaches the fidelity of WW2OL's damage model.
They use pure physics calculations to figure round velocity, mass, caliber, type of warhead, the armor thickness it comes in contact with, the angle of impact, what components it damages, armor spalling, crew concusion...
It goes on.
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Wait a minute, weren't these the same people (CRS) that had the German SMG on the infantryman shooting backwards at game release??LOL!
And you trust them to make realistic physics?
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I tried to honestly realign misconceptions about WW2OL, but it seems some people are all too happy to keep spewing forth the same tired old arguements against WW2OL that were formed 2 years ago.
The hate that can fester in some people over one game's mistake is incredible.
I don't care what their opinion of WW2OL is, I'm not trying to change it... I'm just putting out the facts for those who haven't tried it.
So try to 7 day trial for yourself and make your own judgement, you have nothing to lose.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
AH takes amor thickness into account when modelling it's hit point system.
No, AH models armor thickness for penetration purposes, not as hit points. If you were at all familiar with AH you'd know that. Believe me, I've spent enough time shooting at tanks in AH to know this. If it were hit points the tanks fights would be very, very linear and predictable. They aren't.
You just don't get it do you. We aren't idiots and we are very familiar with AH.
You are not putting out facts, you are putting out propaganda. You are making false claims to people who know better, even assuming that all your statments about WWIIOL are 100% true (which they manifestly are not).
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CRS shot themselves in the foot long ago, people won't believe their lies now. So head on back to that happy propaganda shop over there at WWIIOL, don't let the truth get in your way.
2 years already and look at how simplistic that game is....utterly amazing.
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It's not physics based. They have preset round calibers that can penetrate preset thinkness.
It's set and stock, a detailed hit point system if you will.
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Thanks for listing the vehicles and supporting my claim.
AH only has about 70 total pieces of equipment themselves.
Add up everything in WW2OL and it comes to about 50 or so.
Sure it's not as much, but AH has been out longer, WW2OL holds it's equipment to a higher standard, and unlike AH, WW2OL has many more things to worry about than simply throwing more equipment into the mix.
They have an overall WAR and strategic model to keep adding on with it.
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Originally posted by chaunsey
in an air fight your guys may win due to the fact you play basically an air only sim.
in a combined arms assault we'd wipe the floor with you guys :-)
Considering air superiority over the battle field wouldn't be in your favor and we have just as good bombers and mud movers as we do furballers, you guys wouldn't be able to move your pill boxes on tracks out in the open. Just imagine what a 1,800kg bomb on our Ju87D-3 would do to your lovely tank formations.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
It's not physics based. They have preset round calibers that can penetrate preset thinkness.
It's set and stock, a detailed hit point system if you will.
Once again, no.
If that were the case the tank battles would be stupifyingly predictable. They aren't.
What is your source of information about the way AH models things?
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Since most of you guys use more than one vaccume cleaner, I have a great deal on a free trial....
I have a hot tip, try the Crimson Skies guys, they may be looking for a better game.
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What is your source for the way AH models things?
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HiTech, Pyro and having played AH since version 1.03.
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"WW2OL has many more things to worry about than simply throwing more equipment into the mix."
Yeah like game stopping bugs, horrid framerates, low numbers of subscribers, bugs that make the game a joke, such as the unkillable Panchar bug LOL!
How many CTDs did you have today?
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
What is your source for the way AH models things?
I think that goes without answering :)
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QUOTE]The biggest problem with WW2OL is the unbelieveably slow development. It's been out for 2 years and they still haven't modelled Paris or London, yet the entire game (initial release) is about the blitzkrieg that occured in the western europe theatre in 1940..who would have known that the actual battle took so much less time than the development of the game LOL![/QUOTE]
the development is going slow yes due to their small staff,but theyve done extremely well considering their size,i know that developers have been quoted saying theyre amazed with whats been done having only 20 o so employee's.
They don't have the naval game in, only a handful of planes, a few tanks per side, no real supply system yet, no artillery, no LMGs, ect...The list goes on and on.
the naval game is the single most important thing that hasnt been developed enough,there is only 1 boat atm,but theyve said they dont want to just model a half assed naval game to get it out quick.
they want it done right the first time,and infact the first real naval unit is only a few weeks from release now,after the first one is implemented successfully it wont be as hard to add others.
the fact that its a combined arms sim means that there naturally will be far less planes available then a regular flight sim would have.
its more fair to count units then planes/tanks since a tank takes the same work as a plane really.
so by that theyve modeled 15 planes i think ,16 different armored vehicles,5 trucks,6 aa/at guns,1 boat,and 9 infantry units using 15 infantry weapons.
so a total of 52,that is a more fair number to compare to other games.plus there are another 6 or so to be released sometime in the next few weeks.
and there is a supply system,wich is geting more and more detailed in each version.
artillary is coming,they need to make an ordinance server so that they can track inderect fire miles away.
lmg's are on the way but theyre holding off basically till its smart to add them or they could end up just ruining infantry play.
[QOUTE]Also no point in subscribing if you want to fly...you can't spawn anything but the basic plane unless you are up there in rank, and then most of the time the planes are out of supply (attrited) so you cant even spawn the basic ones.[/QUOTE]
you'd prefer that new players waste all the good fighters so that none are available and they were wasted?
also it only takes a few days of flying to gain the rank needed to fly all planes.
remember this is a WAR sim,the biggest factor in a war is attrition,if you dont run out of men and weapons and the other guy does you win.so
so what would a war sim be without attrition?
endless planes nonstop and every kill is meaningless,no war in that.
The game also has an extremely high learning curve, as one of the posters found out with the unwieldy keymapper they have.
yes its got a tough learning curve granted,but onyl if you try and go it alone.hook up with other folks and ask questions and you'll get the hang of it in no time.
also the upcoming brigade spawing will fix this maknig ti much easier to learn.
though wwIIol is not just a install and go game,just like you cant expect to pick up a snowboard and start donig tricks,you also cant just start up wwIIol and immediately be able to beat seasoned veterans.
honestly tho i have no idea why you'd say the keymapper is unwieldy.
its fairly simple to map controls and allows for complete customisability of every little control on every seperate unit.
Maybe in about 10 years the game might be worth checking back on and seeing if they have finished the french theatre yet...
try 1 year for that probably,they add around 30 new cities per major patch,thats about the area of most other mmog added ontop of whats there every less then 3 months.
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That's not a source, that's just a name.
A source is something you can physically demostrate, like a link to them discussing the system.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
That's not a source, that's just a name.
A source is something you can physically demostrate, like a link to them discussing the system.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by DunDun
Wait a minute, weren't these the same people (CRS) that had the German SMG on the infantryman shooting backwards at game release??LOL!
And you trust them to make realistic physics?
Don't forget the very rare VTOL bf110 they had.
Ack-Ack
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No source then?
That's too bad.
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I wish I could express my views on what it looks like a fun game.
On the other hand, I can provide all of you with a first hand report of what an awful customer support service it has.
They have been refusing a perfectly valid credit card (I tried to actually pay them before trying, fool of me) and it's been impossible for me to join the game.
What's even more disgusting, I've written them an e-mail asking for directions, and they didn't care to answer.
After this experience, with the level of support showed for one individual wishing to pay them and making an assumption of the one I would get should I ever have a problem with the game/company, I'm glad to give an answer about that free trial:
Thanks, but no, thanks.
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You insult all of us and you think that'll make us want to try WWIIOL?
when did anyone insult you?
you guys are the ones throwing insults and bashing our game.
we dont do that about you guys on our forum.
oh and i see you've attracted blair,its amazing how even more then a year after being banned he still watches our forums like a hawk.
all ring did was inform you that there is a free trial gonig on atm and you guys have to start the same old tired song and dance that all the trolls have been spewing for the past 2 years.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
WW2OL is factually a superior flight model in every respect.
LMAO!!
Does anyone have that video of the 110 spiraling straight up from the ground. You know, after the guy killed one of it's engines with a couple shots from the super sniper pistol .
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Originally posted by chaunsey
when did anyone insult you?
you guys are the ones throwing insults and bashing our game.
You insult our intelligence by portraying wwIIol here as if it were a game.
It is many things.. computer virus, credit card fraud, but it's still not a game .
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it clearly says in the singup page what credit cards are accepted.
pepe you sure you emailed the right person?
i believe youre supposed to email ramp@playnet.com for billing issues.
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You insult our intelligence by portraying wwIIol here as if it were a game.
It is many things.. computer virus, credit card fraud, but it's still not a game .
see,you complain saying we insult you only to come back and insult us.
i'll tell you the one major thing wwIIol has over every other game,the best damn community of players and devs around.
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Originally posted by chaunsey
it clearly says in the singup page what credit cards are accepted.
[/email] for billing issues.
Which is why he pointed out that he was using a VALID credit card.
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wich is why i pointed out he should email ramp@playnet.com :-P
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Originally posted by chaunsey
see,you complain saying we insult you only to come back and insult us.
i'll tell you the one major thing wwIIol has over every other game,the best damn community of players and devs around.
Who is "us" and how did I insult them ?
Now you are telling me that the community is great ?
You're insulting our intelligence again. You see everyone here was part of the wwIIol "community" . We're all familiar with the "stfu noob, and buy more ram" community .
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yes if you win the air you win the ground,but who says you for sure would win the air?
or just cause you win the air doesnt mean you slaughter the air,so you most likely wouldnt have free reign to just bom the hell out of our ground pounders.
i really dont see how people say there are no air missions,i dont fly a whole lot im more of a ground player,but when i do fly i have NEVER had a problem finding a plane,and almost always find the plane i want.
but if youre looking only for an air game then yes AH does offer more,but even then it doesnt allow you to affect the flow of a whole war.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
No source then?
That's too bad.
Do a search idiot.
Maybe the posts still exist, or maybe they've expired. I don't know.
One thing more, idiot, you offered no source at all. None. Zilch.
I stated that my info came from the guys who made the game. That wasn't good enough, eh?
Idiot.
And I'm an idiot for wasting my time trying to reason with an idiot.
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no you are an idiot for having to resort to insults for no reason.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Isn't it comforting to know that CRS models the infantry and vehicles with the same level of fidelity as the airplanes?
-- Todd/Leviathn
Lev, you're being too subtle for the boyo. :)
Hint: Infantry/vehicles are modeled with the same fidelity level as airplanes. What would the vehicle model be like if the plane model were poor?
curly
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lol,thats what id look like considering i cant dogfight for crap,but we've got many really good pilots so dont be so sure.:)
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Thats a HOing, not a dogfight
:p
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Originally posted by chaunsey
see,you complain saying we insult you only to come back and insult us.
i'll tell you the one major thing wwIIol has over every other game,the best damn community of players and devs around.
Wow!
I am getting tired of AH threads I've started on other BBSs being hijacked rudely by a WWIIOL fanatic with no manners.
Now I find at least 4 of you WWIIOL fundamentalists arguing the merits of your hobby on our BBS - well I am NOT interested. You guys do more harm to WWIIOL every time you step out of your blinkered worldview and go off to be rude to the "heathens" that don't "worship" the way you do.
Stick it in your EAR! I too spent $NZ99 on the boxed version of WWIIOL around the time that AW3MV fell over. I thought that it would be very cool to play an MMOG that represented every arm of each of the protagonists in the 1940 campaigns. Well I was ripped off! And now I have to listen to the WWIIOL rantings here.
I will say this slowly so you understand: Because of your attitude, lack of respect, and inability to back off when you have inserted both feet so far down your throat you now have a lump in the seat of your trousers, I WILL NEVER SPEND ANY MONEY, TIME , OR EFFORT on WWIIOL. Ever. Period.
You made comments about community. Well the community I fly AH with contains a large percentage of the AW community that came before. You lot wouldn't know an inclusive community if it lept up and smacked you in the face.
palef
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Best thread in a long time, Where's Ozark, I smell fire :D
Yes, that me110 Helicopter you have modeled over there realy shows how the flight model is sooo much more realistic than here, please continue along that road so we can continue laughing. And yes, I've tried WWIIOL 3 times so far, ground fighting can be fun if you are on prozac and can manage to get around the poor FPS, the clipping, the uber luger etc etc...
Uber pilots? I haven't seen any when I was there, the only plane I took out was a JU87 and managed to dogfight spitfires and kill them by out turning them going UP (laugs) ... I don't need to mention that everyone here knows I stink as a pileit.
Look guys, you just sound like Nissan resselers trying to sell out to a Harley biker gang... Ciaoooo!
PS: Karnak has fed HTC with data regarding most units in this game since day one, if I were you I'd remove both my feet from my mouth.
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You made comments about community. Well the community I fly AH with contains a large percentage of the AW community that came before. You lot wouldn't know an inclusive community if it lept up and smacked you in the face.
maybe this hasnt crossed your mind but we've got otns of old AW players over there too.
also,no one gets mad that you hate wwIIol,but we always will correct the false statements that people love to spew about it.
unless you really know the game,not just tried it for a few hours once or twice then you cant talk,just like i dont talk about AH since i dont know crap about it.
none of us have said anything rude or insulting and yet you guys have degenerated to insulting us,ya great community there
:rolleyes:
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"Add to that the fact that I have never gotten usable frame rates. I have an Athlon XP 1800+, 512mb DDR 266, an Ultra SCSI hard drive setup and a GeForce4 4600 with 128mb and the game was still unplayble due to low frame rates. "
Maybe this guy needs to learn to run a computer lol.
I run fine on 1ghz pent 3 ,256sdram 133,geforce 3 64mb
Average 30 to 50fps .......................so many idiots so little time
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
WW2OL is factually a superior flight model in every respect.
It is incomplete in some areas as you pointed out with landings, but what it does have is done better.
/B]
The Iraqi Propaganda Minister has come to Aces High !!!
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Originally posted by AHSUXXORS
"
Maybe this guy needs to learn to run a computer lol.
I run fine on 1ghz pent 3 ,256sdram 133,geforce 3 64mb
Average 30 to 50fps .......................so many idiots so little time
I call BS, I have almost twice the power of this said system, and struggle to get 21 in that game...
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skuzzy what about making this thread sticky ?
(for documentation and entertainement purpose :))
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well maybe you cant run a computer either :p
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How exactly do you define "running a computer?". Clicking the icon, and waiting for the agonizingly long loading phase to finish?
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EDITED: Removed all the harsh statements of reality.
Let's just let this thread die and maybe these slobberdonkeys will go away when they realize they're just talking to themselves.
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Originally posted by AHSUXXORS
well maybe you cant run a computer either :p
This smacks of the wwIIol community . Note his l33t handle .
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Originally posted by chaunsey
You made comments about community. Well the community I fly AH with contains a large percentage of the AW community that came before. You lot wouldn't know an inclusive community if it lept up and smacked you in the face.
maybe this hasnt crossed your mind but we've got otns of old AW players over there too.
also,no one gets mad that you hate wwIIol,but we always will correct the false statements that people love to spew about it.
unless you really know the game,not just tried it for a few hours once or twice then you cant talk,just like i dont talk about AH since i dont know crap about it.
none of us have said anything rude or insulting and yet you guys have degenerated to insulting us,ya great community there
:rolleyes:
I V E played WWIIOL. I want my money back. I have ex Aw squaddies that play WWIIOL and that was a motivating factor for trying it out.
I tried Warbirds WWIIOL and AH when AW died. The AH guys were welcoming. The warbirds and WWIIOL guys were not. I have said not ONE thing about the game mechanics of WWIIOL in my post. I do not hate inanimate objects and I do not hate fellow human beings. I DO take exception to disrespectful, arrogant behaviour. This is not the forum to be making claims about WWIIOL.
Don't you DARE roll your eyes at me sonny!
Palef
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Ahem..
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yes...
WW2OL =
"Scramble! We need reinforcements at the AH boards, we're getting slaughtered!"
"Send in the 10 year old children so we may smite them while they laugh! We will win over thier customer base yet!"
<16 year old overlord flicks booger>
You go CRS slaves, bring on the rest of the idiots to convince us WW2OL is superior to AH.
I'll just sit here and watch, laughin.
You ain't sellin it to me.
Of this, I am sure.
(oh, bring your 1337 h4x0rz too)
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Well, well. AH is about the only MMO that WWIIOL can claim graphical triumph over.
If you've the time, this 97mb video (http://www.mirror.wwiionline.com/downloads/Damagelog.avi) that runs around one minute (VERY high resolution) shows the calculations of the damage model in WWIIOL.
I also wonder how many subscribers AH has? I know WWIIOL has over 10,000 subscribers.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
AH takes amor thickness into account when modelling it's hit point system.
Nothing out there reaches the fidelity of WW2OL's damage model.
They use pure physics calculations to figure round velocity, mass, caliber, type of warhead, the armor thickness it comes in contact with, the angle of impact, what components it damages, armor spalling, crew concusion...
It goes on.
Sounds like Combat Mission 2. Think I will go play that.
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Which obviously shows that you only come here to advertise (nearly illegally) this 'game' and nothing else. IF you had read elsewhere you would read of the new graphics engine coming later this year, not to mention the new version (2.0) which will make AH(2) even more superior to WW2OL.
On another note, graphics arent everything, it's gameplay and general realism through that gameplay.
You still won't be the worst, there's always AW3...
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Originally posted by Denwad
Well, well. AH is about the only MMO that WWIIOL can claim graphical triumph over.
If you've the time, this 97mb video (http://www.mirror.wwiionline.com/downloads/Damagelog.avi) that runs around one minute (VERY high resolution) shows the calculations of the damage model in WWIIOL.
I also wonder how many subscribers AH has? I know WWIIOL has over 10,000 subscribers.
Just goes to prove the old addage: There's a sucker born every minute.... :D :eek: :p :rolleyes: :D :eek: :rolleyes: :p
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Lets settle this argument, I've been playing WW2OL for about 2.5 months as a break from AH. And have played WW2OL on and off during the free trials as well.
Framerates:
- I cannot run over 1024x768 due to the sound getting distorted. No idea why this happens
- Air 2 Air framerates suck. Put more than 5 or 6 Aircraft in range and my framerates drop to 12/13 fps (2100XP+,1Gb, GF3)
- ground framerates are just fine
Number of players:
- bad news for the ww2ol guys, I can't see anywhere where it shows subscribers/online numbers, however in off peak times theres less than 50 per side playing (I play on GMT+12 times)
- on peak times I'd say theres similar numbers to AH's MA
- there is no way in hell they have 10000 subscribers
Flight Model:
- its horrible
- P40's outturning/outzooming 109s'
- 110's flop around like fish
- torque modelling is bizzare
- G model is wierd (bizzare blackout system)
Damage Model:
- air 2 air is bizzare, just tonight I loaded up an H75 with 20mm (close shot, top of a zoom), he kept flying and flying and flying
- ground 2 ground seems pretty good
- ground 2 air seems bizzare
- air damage model is not visible, so you've got no idea what damage you take, or what they take. Although engine damage model gets thumbs up (heat and coolant stuff)
- ground damage model is cool, loads of flames spewing from tank viewports
Game Stability:
- big thumbs down, at least one hard lock up a day, one game created reboot every few days
- speedhacking seems to be more common and cheating is becoming a real issue
Community:
- has its good and bad, as does AH
- bloody hard to find good information (half the links on the CRS website are DEAD)
- seems to be a lot of politcal BS flying around (loads of bellybutton kissing)
So, if you wanna piss around in a ground war, shoot tanks, be a sniper and all that. Then WW2OL is good.
If you wanna fly and really do some hardcore dogfighting then WW2OL is not good. In fact it is 'teh suxor'. And, if you're a WW2OL 'fight pile-it' and you think you're good, come to AH and watch your butt get handed to you.
HOWEVER - if you want to be CAS in a ground war then WW2OL is all good.
WW2OL is a fun ground war. But its buggy as hell, its got a crap air game, and its most definitely not got 10000 subscribers. In fact reading the forums and observing the level of newbies I'd put money on a shrinking subscriber base.
(oh and zeroace for the record, I find ww2ol pile-its easy kills 1 on 1, and theres much better than I in AH).
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This is probably the best thread in the history of AH that didn't involve pick-up trucks, being shirtless and sweaty, having an accident prone girlfriend with a good lawyer or shooting cans of CS gas in the desert. Honestly.
The truth is everyone here would love to see WW2OL live up to the hype. Many of us bought the box on Day 1 - and many of those had it imported to where-ever they are in the world. Yet when we try WW2OL we still see things listed on the box are not present 2 years (!) after release. That's inexcusable.
I can honestly say that if WW2OL was half as good as you guys make out, we'd be there.
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Just one question for the WWIIOnliners.......
Why do you think that the flight model of WWIIOL is high fidelity?
Explain to me why 110s can take off like a heli.
Explain why stuka's can out turn spits. And DONT try to tell me it's cos they fly slower and therefore have a smaller turning circle, spits have throttles as well.....
Explain why HE111s can land at a 90 degree nose down angle with no damage.
How come aircraft performance in game doesnt even vaguely match historical figures, test results or pilot anecdotes? (ie P40s outzooming 109s, etc).
Lets not argue the ground models, I'm happy to admit that the land warfare side of WW2OL is actually pretty good (nowhere near as good as Operation Flashpoint.....but that aint an MMOG).
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Wow this thread is ghey, ;) I guess Ring should take some consideration as to where he posts crap though, as a member of the WWIIOL community I appologize for this even starting but...
WWIIOL has a metric buttload of kids who couldn't air fight their way out of cloud cover, it's not a dedicated flight sim that's been around for what 5-6 years? So yea your going to have a bit of an advantage across the board but dont be fooled there are some darned good virtual pilots in there to.
That into consideration I'de still be willing to be involved in a WWIIOL vs AH set of matches, we have a freebie so it's fairly easy to get in. ;)
Make it an early night Tues thru Thurday or after midnight any other and I'll show up.
Bring your best and we'll just shake our forums upside-down and see who shows.
(ohh and a light Stuka "AKA bombload dropped" has a heck of a lot more wing surface to wieght than a slow Spitty)
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Ohh and I'm just doing this as an excuse to fight (more than) half my old AW squad, hi guys!
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Top 10 reasons it must be your fault WW2OL Sucks:
10. CRS didn't want to release the game as early as they did... though... that was 3 years ago and it still sucks.
9. You don't have enough memory. Every computer should have at least 2gig of memory. Hell... its so cheap these days.
8. You don't have the latest drivers. And by latest, we actually mean right drivers, drivers that were released long after the game.
7. WW2OL uses "physics" to model their bullet damage. God knows HTC hasn't figured out how to model angle of penetration and inertia into bullet penetration... despite what they say.
6. You obviously haven't RTFM. If you had, you'd know how to preset your flaps to enable your 110 to outturn a hurricane even though its fully loaded.
5. There aren't any bugs... its just you, your system, your memory or your drivers. Oh yeah... and RTFM.
4. Lugers really could shoot 1000 yards with no bullet drop.
3. There is no clipping in WW2OL. Its a figment of your imagination. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
2. The AH community is for ****. At least, the WW2OL community seems to think so because whenever they start a spam campaign, they get attacked. Of course, their spam campaign over at AGW has been limited to the O'Club, but nodoby really responded to this news in our O'Club so hardcase had to change IDs again.
1. Hardcase isn't really posting in this thread at all.
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So... does WWII0l still have that fat, drunken, lieing aussie on their development team? so long as that guy is on they will never have realistic FM's... the guy thinks the germs won the air war. If they haven't fired him then they aren't even getting close to talking about.
lazs
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Vulcan codes for WW2OL?
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
right now would be an opportune time to try WW2OL if there ever was one.
I agree with you. There truly never was one.
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Originally posted by chaunsey
i'll tell you the one major thing wwIIol has over every other game,the best damn community of players and devs around.
Then. . . . . errr......ah...... how abouts ya stay over there with that community you so proud of.
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Originally posted by AHSUXXORS
"Add to that the fact that I have never gotten usable frame rates. I have an Athlon XP 1800+, 512mb DDR 266, an Ultra SCSI hard drive setup and a GeForce4 4600 with 128mb and the game was still unplayble due to low frame rates. "
Maybe this guy needs to learn to run a computer lol.
I run fine on 1ghz pent 3 ,256sdram 133,geforce 3 64mb
Average 30 to 50fps .......................so many idiots so little time
Nice name, bud. Just who in AH did you actually . . . . . .
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I find it ironic how WWIIOL folks are being all kind of childish and immature players yet they have remianed the most respectful here in this thread.
Asking you to try a game that maybe started off the worng way in order to show you how much it has changed does not make you a lap dog or any other immature comment. This is a fair thread the tried to inform follow gamers about a game that has come a long way and Ring thinks alot of you guys/gals may now enjoy.
I for one respect CRS for what they have been able to pull off. This game had one of the worst releases of all time yet after 2 years, they have developed this game into one that gets nothing but positive reviews as of late. There have been many MMOG that have choked after a few months yet CRS is still kicking.
If you try this game one night and make the assessment of that then I think that's your fault. This gam is designed with squad play in mind. Join an axis and allied squad then play. It will be then you'll see what WWIIOL is all about. Massive armor colums with air support providing cover and softening ground targets for the armor and troops to move in and take a town is heart pounding when done. Playing alone would get boaring for anyone.
If ya wanna give it a good try and see what you have been missing join a squad. http://www.sghq.com is a huge axis squad that would love to show ya around.
***** (ver. 1.9 will be coming in a couple of weeks flyboys, and we'll need ya because the will implement huge factories that must be bombed under heavy flak defense in order to stop/slow your enemies unit production and creation of new vehicles! We would appreciate you guys expertise!)
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Lockdown,
What I think that most of the WW2OL cheerleaders don't realize, is that a lot of AH'ers on this BBS have already tried WW2OL. In fact, if they are like me, they've purchased the game on day one, lived through the horrible launch, then quit. Then re-joined 6 months later...then quit again. Then tried it again after another year of development....then quit(again).
So, you'll please excuse us for being slightly cranky whenever someone comes along and tries to convert us, as if we've never attempted to enjoy WW2OL.
Speaking only for myself, I've tried WW2OL three time now, and it still is not where I would like it to be for me to consider a monthly subscription.
End of story. I've been flying online flight sims since 1996, and I know what I like, and what I don't like. I admit, WW2OL has come a long way since it's first launch. But that still isn't far enough, IMO. I'll probably try it again in about another 6 months, just to see how things are coming along.
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Originally posted by LockDown
***** (ver. 1.9 will be coming in a couple of weeks flyboys, and we'll need ya because the will implement huge factories that must be bombed under heavy flak defense in order to stop/slow your enemies unit production and creation of new vehicles! We would appreciate you guys expertise!)
Ah, the old "good cop, bad cop" ploy. Send the nasty boys in to stir things up, then Lockdown (with his very first post here!) comes in all warm and fuzzy with a invite. All intended to get us to give it a try (again). For free!! (kind of) And with a new ver to boot! We can help debug their crap! Oh Joy!!
As for me, I can't eat enough to puke enough to express my true feelings.
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Originally posted by Swoop
Why do you think that the flight model of WWIIOL is high fidelity?
Explain to me why 110s can take off like a heli.
Explain why stuka's can out turn spits. And DONT try to tell me it's cos they fly slower and therefore have a smaller turning circle, spits have throttles as well.....
Explain why HE111s can land at a 90 degree nose down angle with no damage.
How come aircraft performance in game doesnt even vaguely match historical figures, test results or pilot anecdotes? (ie P40s outzooming 109s, etc).
Come on fan-boys, answer me.
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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Lockdown, stop with the fanbot "2 years ago".
I bought the initial release, sure. Like the Spinal Tap LP, a 2 word review.
toejam Sandwich.
However, I got the "Player Choice" for X-mas,December 2002. The "PC" edition had me cringing through 1 hour of patches... with the same crappy interface.
I'm not eating that again.
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I have current accounts in both sims. The fanatical following on both sims amazes me. Why cant people play a game and still find things wrong with it?
In AH I hate the ground vehicles, I use them a lot but hate the modelling, yet I still have my account because the flying is why i am here.
In WWIIOL I love the ground part, but hate the flying. The flying is beyond cheesey.
AH seems to being doing just fine on numbers of players.
Things WWIIOL could do to improve the numbers....
1. Fix the visible limit...having planes blink in and out truly kills the fun for me.
2. Skip about 2 years in development...I normally love early war stuff but enough already. Bring in ponies, tigers and other midwar gear and people will flock to it.
3. LMGs and other meat for the ground.
WWIIOL has come a long way from its horrid beginning but its just not there yet.
p.s. I can post there and here. I dont post AH stuff there and I only post WWIIOL stuff here when someone asks an opinion. Not a fanboy of either sim, just a gamer.
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banana- I respect your view and am tahnkful for your maturity, which has been hard to find here. I understand you views, I think ring was just trying to get guys to give it another look (which I think is needed for alot of guys who baught it when it came out and never gave it a second look). Is that wrong, I don't think so. We are all gamers and apparently enjoy the WWIIOL era. I think it is a good thing to keep players informed of games that we enjoy and maybe never heard of. Heck, post like these are what got me into many games that I otherwise would have never heard about, like WWIIOL.
Swoop, that helli bug was fixed in a week and all WWIIOL aircraft are speced out to the true performance measuers. By you complaints I assume you haven't played WWIIOL in a long time.
Dnil- good post. I am a flight sim fan myself and I for one really enjoy the planes in WWIIOL. Perfect, no (closest any flight sim comes to perfect for me ha been MS flight simulator). Fun, yes.
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So IRL a stuka can out turn a spit?
(http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/extern/640697.jpg)
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It can, initially in ah as well.
having a sustained turnfight on the deck is a different story due to the e loss the ju87 would suffer
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Regardless of the flight modelling... If the f***ing plane disappears from in front of me over a fight due to absolutely horrible coding, I don't want to play the game.
When the planes disappeared, I actually would have some fun.
However, don't even come in here with your flight model being better. It's not. Trim has even more of an effect in WWIIOL than it does in AH. Trim is a major flight control input in WWIIOL, and that's just not historic/realistic at all (especially considering some planes didn't have trim tabs for all 3 control surfaces.) Unless things have changed since the last "welcome back soldier" campaign, you could not achieve anywhere near full elevator deflection without trimming fully up (talking about the Hurricane Mk I.) Trim the plane for level flight at max RPM and full throttle, and then you can do a 90 deg bank and yank and maintain 3G turns indefinitely, with full deflection on the stick. Now, that turn is sustainable in both sims (AH and WWIIOL, tho it's been awhile since I did this test, so the 3G might be off.) In AH you can sustain a turn in the Hurri Mk I at about 3G pretty much indefinitely. The difference is you are nowhere near fully deflecting your joystick in AH while doing this. To turn the Hurri tighter in AH, just pull back farther on the stick. You use more energy than the plane can create, so eventually you stall it. To do the same in WWIIOL you have to fully deflect your stick and THEN trim up fully to get the same effect. I've never read any pilot anecdotes that said they HAD to trim to perform high G turns.
Toad can give you a better explanation of how trim is supposed to work in real planes. I trust his expertise as he actually flies in real life. Kinda like how I trust HiTech to model what flight should feel like in a sim. He flies in real life.
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I've mostly only played AirWarrior and WWIIOL, but I did play Aces High a bit in my transition from AW to WWIIOL.
First off, it's just a free offer, it's not meant to insult you.
Secondly, the free offer is put this way because WWIIOL is not a free download. Rather than look for major game sponsorship from EA or Sony, CRS/Playnet tried to keep the game dev. company small. When they ran out of money, they made a distribution deal with Strategy First for a boxed release. Because what they were doing was so new, it took much longer than they expected. (Say what you want, you have to give the Rats credit for creating the first virtual battlefield with all the elements, and WWIIOL's vehicles & infantry are definately better than any others.) These delays and the deal with Strategy First caused the forced early release. It was terrible, but for the most part it's only a memory.
On the issue of flight models. IIRC, Aces High still uses a chart based flight model system. That is, a speadsheet is used that says ### alt with this plane = ### max speed and ## degrees min turn radius. Obviously there's a bit more finesse, but that's the gist of it. The sole problem to this method is that it relies on anectdotal nformation about these planes being correct. (i.e. WWII pilots talking about the Spit always turning inside the Bf109. But this doesn't take into account that Bf109 pilots focused on E-fighting and would rarely have attempted to turn inside a Spit. But if the conditions were right, I'd say it most certainly could, although it'd be rare.)
WWIIOL's model however attempts to model the planes as the blueprints called for, and place them in an environment and let the physics do the work. The problem with this is that if this surface is a bit off or that drag coeffecient wrong you get incorrect results.
So when you say WWIIOL's flight model doesn't feel right, you really have no proof unless you've actually flown those planes. Truth is most real WWII combat pilots who've ever seen these flight sims would say the whole lot of us are crazy and that they would have never attempted the manuvers we pull in our virtual world.
So which flight model is correct? I dunno, but personally I believe WWIIOL's is more revolutionary. When we get to the point where our PCs can handle the heavy physics load required to make it work really well, WWIIOL's flight model will decimate Aces High's.
But don't get me wrong, I don't blame some of you for not coming. Personally I kind of miss the fighter pilot community that's somewhat lacking in WWIIOL. But I'm a WWIIOL fanboy, what can I say....
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but why are you a fanboy?
where does it say you cant like or dislike more then 1 game?
This is the most odd behaviour I see in the gaming community.
Why can't you say "for my tastes I like WWIIOL flying better" instead of bashing each others FM. I fly what to me feels right...I don't care if its physic based or lookup table based.
Every community I see does this, just 1 big pissing contest on who does what more realisticly. Play what you find enjoyable and don't feed the trolls.
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Greetings AH Gentlemen.
Its been a while since ive been on this board, I now play in WW2Online.
I think its unfortunate that Playnets forums do not allow you the same opportunity to respond to the WW2OL community as you may here. If you could see the corresponding thread on the WW2OL forums, linked to this one and reply to it, perhaps the more foolish members of our WW2Online community would not have been so stupid as to enter your Air Space.
Yes, I said stupid.
I'll provide a link to the thread which you can view if you wish but as you know cannot reply due to Playnets annoying stance on that issue. Hopefully, it will provide some insight into the WW2Online community to show that NOT all of us want to belittle Aces High or interfere in your forums.
Why would I bother?
I could go on and touch on some of the arguements put by both sides in this unfortunate thread but essentially it comes down to respect of the Online Air Community as a whole. Something old Squads in both games would recognise and something I fear is lost at times in the hub bub of chest pounding with my sims better than your sim. The Community itself is small compared to many other online genres and like the African Elephant, our environment has been steadily encroached upon over the years by the chase of the dollar and the First Person Shooter.
Any Flight Sim, is a good Flight Sim at the moment. Even ones with a quirky Flight Model ;)
Read it if you please.
WW2Online Thread (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?page=1&group_id=8809&parent_id=2786916&BV_SessionID=@@@@1883018833.1054569549@@@@&BV_EngineID=fadchghjklffbjjcgmcggichhl.0/)
Good Hunting Gentlemen.
S!
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I find it ironic how WWIIOL folks are being all kind of childish and immature players yet they have remianed the most respectful here in this thread.
Heh, the WWIIOL folks in this thread are as respectful as Amway salesmen, as courteous as telemarketers and as kindhearted as Hari Krishnas. I personaly will treat them with all due respect earned by such people. Thusly, my reply to your respectful, courteous and kind offer to join you in WWIIOL is:
**** you. I don't want any bulk cleaning supplies, a new long distance service, my soul's salvation in a flower, or the WWIIOL virus infecting my computer. You are the scum of the earth, having to stoop to advertising a defective and fraudulent product within a competitors BBS. The sheer ****tyness of that game is exceeded only by your stupidity in thinking that such a tactless ploy would be welcomed. I hope you get cancer and die. Again, I must reiterate, **** you.
Have a nice day!
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You guys may have heard of Killer, the head guy at CRS.
Here is what he had to say, confirming that WW2OL's flight model is indeed more complex and detailed:
There are holes in every game, none are perfect.
Many of those guys are too blind to even think of looking, and you waste your time.
Old bugs like the the 110 that the guy made a vid of that was fixed a week later... They want to see these problems and nothing else.
The guy who gets sound weirdness at high res, probably due to his vid card and sound card sharing an IRQ, and wiiol's use of lots of 3D sound, lots of sounds per vehicle, with doppler delay and doppler shift etc.
If your gonna go try to recruit folks, just stay nice, ignore the insults and bad info, just make your statements and be calm.
The 90% who read and don't post will make up their mind who's being childish and come try the game.
AH is a decent game. I know HT and Pyro well, having founded the company that made warbirds with HT, and hired Pyro for customer support, and working with them for years.
Ht's goal has always been flight sim, with other components that would never play a more significant role in the game, this is what AH is unless he's changed his outlook which I personally doubt.
Our game has a goal to make ground and air realistic, to model them all equally and well, and to have them play out their respective roles realistically.
Different design goals, different games, different gameplay.
AH is much more of a "pick up game" or a solo game like you would get at a park playing pick up bsketball. WWIOL was never designed to be fun this way, it's designed to be a large organized group play game, not for a single squad even, but for multiple squad groups to work together. That's where the fun is in it.
That difference is what a WWII game should be is probably the biggest reason we even have seperate companies and didn't all leave together when HT left Ien. Only Pyro saw things the way HT did.
As for flight models, ours is definately more detailed and complex no doubt. Does that make it better? no. It gives it an option to be more faithfully realistic, but the extra detail and complexity makes more places for error too. And the AH guys are right in one thing, we definatly would have tightened up the flight models more a long time ago if we didn't have equal detail to worry about in the ground vehicles.
As for subscribers, heh, 10,000 was last year, add a couple more thousand to it now. And I doubt seriously AH's main "arena" will even hold what we have on the main server every night.
As for size, again, orders of magnitude difference here. Then again ours has been said to be "too big".
A duel? who cares, we have WB and AW guys here with thousands of hours just like they do. It'll always come down to who knows the quirks to take advantage of in the flight models of each, as neither will ever be perfect.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
You guys may have heard of Killer, the head guy at CRS.
Here is what he had to say, confirming that WW2OL's flight model is indeed more complex and detailed:
As for flight models, ours is definately more detailed and complex no doubt.
Uh, the guy whose salary depends on selling his product says WW2OL has a more complex and detailed flight model so that must mean that it's true?
Having spent more than a little time with both I feel qualified to say that there is little comparison. AH's flight model is head and shoulders above WW2OL. Though I do like the way yer head moves around in WW2OL with acceleration.
If you were being sarcastic you forget the :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
The guy who gets sound weirdness at high res, probably due to his vid card and sound card sharing an IRQ, and wiiol's use of lots of 3D sound, lots of sounds per vehicle, with doppler delay and doppler shift etc.
I love this one....typical WWOL double-speak.
He blames the user for a specific problem and then pats himself on the back for all the great features included in the game.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
For a taste of what went into the WW2OL flight model click here (http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id=8809&parent_id=1835601) for a small sample of what goes into calculating aircraft damage.
That is why WW2OL is so taxing on your CPU... because it must calculate armor penetration, location, and internal component damage as the bullet travels through your airframe.
This is not the arbitrary locational hit point system one has grown use to in flight sims.
You seem to equate bigger to better....CRS hemorrhages code compared to AH....in other words, Dale can do what most produce with half the code.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
You guys may have heard of Killer, the head guy at CRS.
Lots of people here knew him before WW2OL was even an idea.
As for subscribers, heh, 10,000 was last year, add a couple more thousand to it now. And I doubt seriously AH's main "arena" will even hold what we have on the main server every night.
Maybe he doesn't know AH's main holds like 700 people?
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
You guys may have heard of Killer, the head guy at CRS.
Here is what he had to say, confirming that WW2OL's flight model is indeed more complex and detailed:
There are holes in every game, none are perfect.
Many of those guys are too blind to even think of looking, and you waste your time.
Old bugs like the the 110 that the guy made a vid of that was fixed a week later... They want to see these problems and nothing else.
The guy who gets sound weirdness at high res, probably due to his vid card and sound card sharing an IRQ, and wiiol's use of lots of 3D sound, lots of sounds per vehicle, with doppler delay and doppler shift etc.
If your gonna go try to recruit folks, just stay nice, ignore the insults and bad info, just make your statements and be calm.
The 90% who read and don't post will make up their mind who's being childish and come try the game.
AH is a decent game. I know HT and Pyro well, having founded the company that made warbirds with HT, and hired Pyro for customer support, and working with them for years.
Ht's goal has always been flight sim, with other components that would never play a more significant role in the game, this is what AH is unless he's changed his outlook which I personally doubt.
Our game has a goal to make ground and air realistic, to model them all equally and well, and to have them play out their respective roles realistically.
Different design goals, different games, different gameplay.
AH is much more of a "pick up game" or a solo game like you would get at a park playing pick up bsketball. WWIOL was never designed to be fun this way, it's designed to be a large organized group play game, not for a single squad even, but for multiple squad groups to work together. That's where the fun is in it.
That difference is what a WWII game should be is probably the biggest reason we even have seperate companies and didn't all leave together when HT left Ien. Only Pyro saw things the way HT did.
As for flight models, ours is definately more detailed and complex no doubt. Does that make it better? no. It gives it an option to be more faithfully realistic, but the extra detail and complexity makes more places for error too. And the AH guys are right in one thing, we definatly would have tightened up the flight models more a long time ago if we didn't have equal detail to worry about in the ground vehicles.
As for subscribers, heh, 10,000 was last year, add a couple more thousand to it now. And I doubt seriously AH's main "arena" will even hold what we have on the main server every night.
As for size, again, orders of magnitude difference here. Then again ours has been said to be "too big".
A duel? who cares, we have WB and AW guys here with thousands of hours just like they do. It'll always come down to who knows the quirks to take advantage of in the flight models of each, as neither will ever be perfect.
Killers a studmuffin for posting **** when he really has no idea about what he is talking about.
Of course if HT was actually stupid enough to reply to the "studmuffin", he'd have to get an account. CRS is afraid of an open BBS. They should be. Their product is ****.
...and aren't you all a l'il bunch of tards, all snickering amongst yourselves. "Hey look, you should go defend our **** sandwich of a game in a post I spammed on AH's BBS." Fairies.
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Maybe he doesn't know AH's main holds like 700 people?
Yes, he does :)
WW2OL has 1200-1500 people at peak hours.
We don't know how many it can hold maximum though.
You seem to equate bigger to better...CRS hemorrhages code compared to AH....in other words, Dale can do what most produce with half the code..
AH is NOT doing the same thing WW2OL does when it calculates damage.
WW2OL uses a physics based damage model. Which requires more code by design, not be choice.
CRS could save a lot of coding if they just slapped on a hit point bubble over their aircraft.
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Originally posted by scspook
Good Hunting Gentlemen.
Thanks, scspook, that's some funny stuff. :) I wish that such back-patting mental masturbation were a WW2OL monopoly, but I've seen players here run to other forums to toot their own horns about some thread or another in which they're participating. Human nature is a silly thing indeed.
(though I found the part about DocDoom kicking all of our lilly white AH tulips pretty funny)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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I was considering trying WWIIOL a while back.
I did some research, and simply found too many unsatisfied customers. The main complaint was not the community, or the FM. It was the poor service from CRS. The incorrect and problematic billing, the lack or difficulty getting tech support,etc.
Then there was the list of technical problems the respondants were getting, especially CTDs.
My play time is limited, so if I do not feel encouraged by NEUTRAL respondants, I'm not going to invest the time and effort to try WWIIOL. If such a time arrises where I get a better response from NEUTRAL respondants, I will try WWIIOL.
I must make 2 comments here.
First, HTC customer support is beyond reproach. You simply cannot find this kindof customer care ANYWHERE, be it a game or a long distance phone company.
That alone is a huge selling point.
Secondly, coming to this board advertising (And stop, you are recruiting..Killer said it himself) is very poor form.
If WWIIOL has 10,000+ subscribers, you certainly don't need our little community.
Perhaps an span e-mail would have been better received, but to me, you walked into my friends house, and started deriding him.
Thank you for your offer, but I am quite happy where I am.
Best Wishes,
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Not at all, physics based damage just happens to be very big and complex.
I'm an ends, not a means, kind of guy. Explain to me why I should prefer a physics-based system which involves complex computations, longer programming times, more bloated code, and unforeseen program bugs when a simpler system with seamless and identical end results works just as well.
Let me answer for you: "But it's better! The end result is more realistic! It's just... just... BETTER!"
Now... answer as if you were really trying to impress us into subscribing to WW2OL rather than making us laugh at you.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Did you guys actually read that thread?? Now I know why the WW2OL developers don't want us on their boards- we'd realise that only kids are playing WW2OL. What's the average age of their posters? 12? Really, they're on a par with the Online Candyland crowd when it comes to a lack of maturity. Damn.
We all saw the "superior flight modeling" of WW2OL before- can someone repost that film of the 110 spinning like a top on crack? I think they modeled the flight dynamics after a balloon that's blown up and then released.
Really, even if WW2OL were a perfect sim with the best modeling and graphics ever invented it's still predominately played by a bunch of wanna-be children with bladder control problems.
I fart in the general direction of WW2OL.
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Zeroace, please stop.
Everybody,
People will form their own opinions based on what they see for themselves.
They'll play and have fun doing whatever they want.
Bashing each others' favorite game is an activity that should've been left in the sandbox.
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I tried to read the thread on the WWIIOL board and I have some questions:
Whats does "pwned" mean?
What does "133T" mean?
How do you pronounce "R0xx0r".
I'm dead serious! I have no clue what these terms are. I've seen them once or twice, but never in such massive use on the WWIIOL board.
Just when I thought the english language could not get any more slaughtered....
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Originally posted by TW9
hmm thinking of going to their website and mentioning the fact that ah offers 2 free weeks and doesnt require a credit card for the trial and u dont need to pay for a freaking "key"... lol 30 days free my ars.. Sounds to me like ur paying 19.99 for 37 days..
Hmm 12.99 per month, free 7days which would be equal to just over $3 dollars.. and 19.99 for 30 days.. if u were to pay to play for 37 days it would be around $16... Seems im getting screwed here..
WW2 online deal
-$4
AH Deal
+$7.50
I know my math isnt exact.. just rounded off the numbers.. Am i wrong though?
Sure its cheaper /mo.. but would u wanna play a game owned by a company that screwed u when u originally signed up? And if u think about it ur saving a whopping 75 cents a week playing ww2..
Please, spare me the can of soda.. Maybe if u throw in an extra quarter a week so I could put an extra buck in brenda's thong at the golden bananna (local strip club), i'd think about it..
I most heartily concur:
WWIIOL Subscription Fraud Warning (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ep.webber1/wwiiol.htm)
CRS are currently threatning my ISP. Not a problem as I'm within the law. :)
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Fantastic!!! This thread is truly the epitome of internet tard-dom.
Don't ever let it die!
"Never in the course of internet history has so much stupidity been committed by so few to so many."
Confirm WWIIOl's "High fidelity flight model" by comparing in game tests vs real world flight tests, then you'll be getting somewhere- don't repeat the developers jargon that even they can't seriously believe.
-SW
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Everyone in this thread and the one on the WW2OL boards are all really just biding their time to get the MMOG version of this game. (http://www.syberpunk.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?page=boonga) You know you all want to play it!
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I did some research, and simply found too many unsatisfied customers. The main complaint was not the community, or the FM. It was the poor service from CRS. The incorrect and problematic billing, the lack or difficulty getting tech support,etc.
p
Never, EVER, been my experience.
CRS are the most devoted to their community that I have ever seen in a MMOG.
Bill problems in particular with get straitened out with lightning response.
I'm an ends, not a means, kind of guy. Explain to me why I should prefer a physics-based system which involves complex computations, longer programming times, more bloated code, and unforeseen program bugs when a simpler system with seamless and identical end results works just as well.
You don't get identical results, if you did, then the AH guys wouldn't be screaming about how WW2OL "feels" different.
Physics can't lie, unless you make a coding error.
Physics based flight models bring behavior closer to real life than a table based flight model.
Hmm i wonder where all those "subscribers" were last night when i tried the game out.. They definately werent playing..
Maybe because there is an open beta going on right now to crash test the big 1.9 patch.
You will see the servers busting with players on patch day, garentee it.
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Originally posted by JG3~Siggi
I most heartily concur:
WWIIOL Subscription Fraud Warning (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Ep.webber1/wwiiol.htm)
Not only that, but if you use this 'free download' Gigex will install a bunch of spyware crap on your computer.
Its funny but sad the way that the corporate idiots at Strategy First keep shooting WW2OL in the foot. Thank goodness HTC doesn't have any 'suits'.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Phsyics based flight models bring behavior closer to real life than a table based flight model.
That couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, its so far from the truth it could be construed as misinformed hearsay.
So, I'll take that as you stating that you are full of it and have been the whole time.
-SW
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Karnak, when was the last time you played WW2online?
I'm not trying to put down Aces High, but the fact is it's just not a combined arms simulation.
It's a flight simulator with vehicles for you to play around in when you are bored with flying.
Now, it's not that there is anything wrong with being a game like that... But to call it a combined arms simulator, let alone one better than WW2Online, is just factually false.
You want to talk about "factually false"??? Aye carumba, from the man who says WWIIOL has higher fidelity FM's and DM's!!!
WWIIOL don't have no FM's and DM's, or not any that any veteran simmer would bother to wipe his arse on. I lost count of how many times I got pilot-killed in my 109 by a single round from a Spitfire spraying me from a klick away. And the aerobatic Blenheims, yeah, they were real.
FM = instant blackout with half a gee.
DM = instant pilot-kill, whatever the circumstances.
WWIIOL is the biggest pile of unmitigated ****e I have EVER played in my life.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Physics can't lie, unless you make a coding error.
Physics based flight models bring behavior closer to real life than a table based flight model.
I prefer any table based simulation with good data to any "physic" with bad data.
Lookup table have some avantages concerning execution speed and model validations.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
Not right now, but it's slated for develpment.
The development cycles have sped up dramatically in the last few patches, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see one around late summer or early fall.
(Not that it would take that long for the P38 to be built, but they have a very agressive list of things they want to do before then).
ROTFFLMFAO!!!
You have to be kidding, right? Either that or you are here to blatantly lie. Just about every other post at WWIIOL from disgruntled subscribers demanding new equipment is answered by CRS crying poverty and a lack of resources to develop new stuff this side of 2010.
WW2 Online? Sorry, it's the Battle of France Online. With crap equipment crippled by crap FM's and DM's, buggy code and servers that are up and down like yo-yo's.
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I lost count of how many times I got pilot-killed in my 109 by a single round from a Spitfire spraying me from a klick away
That's the beauty of a pyshics based model.
In real life, all it took was one lucky bullet to pass through the glass and hit the pilot in the head to end it.
In real life, sometimes you could spray a plane without hitting anything vital, just peppering his aircframe with drag inducing holes.
It doesn't have the same appeal when planes take X amount of hits to kill, and always take X amount of hits to kill. every. single. time.
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To those mature AH players like banana, and those who are kindly staying out of this immature pissing contest, I think WWIIOL would be a fun game for you guys to try during the free trial period at least. If ya choose to and wanna play axis, goto http://www.sghq.com/wwiiol and join up with us there at SG to see how fun this squad based game can be. Wont hurt to try for a couple of days.
Does AH have a free trial I can try?
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Originally posted by straffo
I prefer any table based simulation with good data to any "physic" with bad data.
Lookup table have some avantages concerning execution speed and model validations.
FYI: CRS builds their planes in a psyhical world, then they use that table data to test and verify that their plane was built correctly.
Their planes hit all the numbers, but they handle more realistically because you can't replicate all the nuance of flying with a table simulation... You would have to in there by hand and adjust the behavior of every plane.
The pyshics based model does all that for you.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
It doesn't have the same appeal when planes take X amount of hits to kill, and always take X amount of hits to kill. every. single. time.
You think thats how it is on "non-physics" based damage models?
Reaffirms my assertment that you are only repeating the developers flashy jargon.
I'm going to venture a guess that WWIIOl is either your first game, you are getting a free account for staying over here trying to "dispute people's claims", or you simply do not understand what are you talking about.
Might even be all 3?
-SW
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Originally posted by LockDown
Does AH have a free trial I can try?
Yup...and it really is free.;)
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Originally posted by Ash_GenAknosc
Bashing each others' favorite game is an activity that should've been left in the sandbox.
Dude, these bbs are OUR sandbox, not yours. In fact we aren't allowed to even play in your sandbox because CRS is too sensitive to criticism. Obviously HTC doesn't consider WW2OL to be a threat or he'd have kicked you off by now- instead he's letting you spew your BS cause it's good for comedy relief.
You WW2OL guys remind me of the Soviets circa 1970 who talked about how great the USSR was and how they had the best of everything- but then when you asked if they had hot water in the USSR, or lots of cars, or cable TV they'd grudgingly admit they didn't.
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You think thats how it is on "non-physics" based damage models?
Yes. Now of course they make it a little more detailed by adding multiple damage locators, different levels of HP, (wings vs fuselodge) and a things like a set amount of drag to lose when your wing gets X amount of damage...
I'm going to venture a guess that WWIIOl is either your first game,
I've been playing these kinds of games since warbirds first came out.
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Originally posted by LockDown
Does AH have a free trial I can try?
AH has a two week free trial. No CC# needed unless you decide to join after your trial expires. It is only a 35 meg download.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/startnow.html (http://www.hitechcreations.com/startnow.html)
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Originally posted by LockDown
To those mature AH players like banana, and those who are kindly staying out of this immature pissing contest, I think WWIIOL would be a fun game for you guys to try during the free trial period at least. If ya choose to and wanna play axis, goto http://www.sghq.com/wwiiol and join up with us there at SG to see how fun this squad based game can be. Wont hurt to try for a couple of days.
Does AH have a free trial I can try?
Sure. 2 weeks...no credit card necessary, free download, free H2H and offline...(why anyone would play offline...I have no idea!0
http://Http://www.flyaceshigh.com
If you'd like some training to get you wheels up faster, send me an E-mail and I'll meet you in the training arena.
jpizzo127@yahoo.com
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Originally posted by muckmaw
I tried to read the thread on the WWIIOL board and I have some questions:
Whats does "pwned" mean?
-"owned" :)
What does "133T" mean?
-"Leet" as in elite
How do you pronounce "R0xx0r".
-Rocks
I'm dead serious! I have no clue what these terms are. I've seen them once or twice, but never in such massive use on the WWIIOL board.
Just when I thought the english language could not get any more slaughtered....
It's just slang guys make up to be funny and make a niche for themselves ;)
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Yup...and it really is free.
WW2OL's trial is 100% free.
You only have to pay if you want to continue past those 7 days.
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thanks
I'll e-mail ya and try AH out today or tomorrow. Depends on how annoying the wife is.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
FYI: CRS builds their planes in a psyhical world, then they use that table data to test and verify that their plane was built correctly.
Perhaps ,last time I checked (some 2 year ago it was not the case) progress have surely been made but to late for me I feel robbed and wont be back.
Plus as a frenchman I canno't support the idea to fly the over France without the most important plane of this period : the MS406 (I'm speaking only of the fighter part of the air force)
Their planes hit all the numbers, but they handle more realistically because you can't replicate all the nuance of flying with a table simulation... You would have to in there by hand and adjust the behavior of every plane.
Wrong ,just because a joystick will never behave like a real stick.
The nuances you can feel depend of the size of the discrete value of your lookup table (it's function of the availlable memory).
I'm pretty sure a extremly precise physic model can be built but you have to check of the horse power needed ...
The pyshics based model does all that for you.
It show the differences in behaviour in this simulated environement ,for instance in almost all FPS I'm a L33T sniper where IRL I'm a pretty loosy shot ...
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Yes. Now of course they make it a little more detailed by adding multiple damage locators, different levels of HP, (wings vs fuselodge) and a things like a set amount of drag to lose when your wing gets X amount of damage...
Then your original statement would be wrong- if there are variations in the way a, lets say plane, can be rendered damaged- then it does not happen the same. way. every. time.
I've been playing these kinds of games since warbirds first came out.
Amazing that you haven't picked up much about how the internal components of these games work and how their calculations are rendered.
-SW
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how much is AH monthly?
oh and check out the SG recruitment video! It's big but size does matter :) !
http://www.wsbn.com/files/SGHQ_Big_HighQuality.zip
tell me what you guys think. I would appreciate the feedback.
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Originally posted by LockDown
how much is AH monthly?
7.95 a month if you call HTC direct and ask for Skuzzy.
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Hardcase.....I mean Zeroace I hate to tell you but I've given WWIIO 4 tries and it STILL sucks.
How many times do you have to step on a turd before you realise it's a turd?
CRS are the most devoted to their community that I have ever seen in a MMOG
OMG this is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. These guys couldn't be any more abusive to their customers if they tried.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
FYI: CRS builds their planes in a pshyical world, then they use that table data to test and verify that their plane was built correctly.
Their planes hit all the numbers, but they handle more realistically because you can't replicate all the nuance of flying with a table simulation... You would have to in there by hand and adjust the behavior of every plane.
The pyshics based model does all that for you.
Be honest now. You really have no idea about the advantages or disadvantages of either scheme, do you?
You are just spouting off the littany of verbal diarrea initially relayed to you by someone else who probably had their head up just as far up their bellybutton a you do.
It'd be ok to admit it. It's not like we could think less of you.
But if you are sure you are correct, please post some verifiable statistical data as proof.
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can i get HTC's number ;)
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The main point of both game is : have fun.
Arguing in a BBS is a bit sterile :)
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I also notice yall have alot of computer time like me. Have yall played Nukezone? http://www.nukezone.nu ? That's a blast to play when ya have alot of internet access and a few minutes during a break.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
That's the beauty of a pyshics based model.
In real life, all it took was one lucky bullet to pass through the glass and hit the pilot in the head to end it.
In real life, sometimes you could spray a plane without hitting anything vital, just peppering his aircframe with drag inducing holes.
It doesn't have the same appeal when planes take X amount of hits to kill, and always take X amount of hits to kill. every. single. time.
Fly their Stuka and bullets passing thru glass seem to defy physics.
Taken from a post on the WWIIOL site ...
"The chickenpit glass will stop pistol/SMG bullets dead from the front and sides. The GLASS. Not the sides of the chickenpit..... they let them through.
Rifle fire still penetrates..... but at what ranges? How long does it take for a rifle bullet to slow down enough to be stopped by this "armour glass"? I'm almost willing to bet that at 400 yards plus 7.5mm and .303 are bouncing off the chickenpit like hail."
continued in the thread ...
"How much armour is on the pilot seat back? I thought it was supposed to be 8mm?
It stops .303, 7.5mm, .50 Vickers, all dead but not 20mm Oekilon AP, or 25mm AP. Given the penetration of the vickers .50 at 11mm that puts it somewhere between 10mm and 25mm.
I'd also like to point out that the canopy on the stuka stops .455 webly, .45, and whatever the french pistol and SMG use completely except for a small patch right at the rear where the gun sticks out.
The fueslage stops 7.5mm and less. But not .50 cal vickers.
Something is really, REALLY wrong here. The amount of armourglass needed to stop a .45 round on an area the size of a stuka canopy would weight half a ton.
Oh, and it doesn't matter if the canopy is open or closed. It still seems to protect the pilot..... Despite the fact that a Rat recently posted that the protection is removed if visibly open..... [he was talking about 109 but you'd think the same was true for all aircraft]."
Here is Ring's response ...
"BTW.. the bullet has to hit the glass... the meat armor... the back seat... the armor plate..
that tends to slow it down a tad..."
and a response back ...
"I tried from a slight angle to get around the gunner. Still no effect.
BTW. This is ordinary old plexiglass. It shouldn't have much affect on a .50 cal slug. Not at 20 meters range.
More to the point. If it's stopping .50 cal SA from 20 meters..... how is 20mm Ball supposed to do anything?
The canopy definatley should not be stopping .45 bullets.
The stuka is majorly screwed up.
If the canopy is mistakenly stopping bullets..... then how about shrapnel? Blast?
Between pilot armour thicker than panzer decking, and an armourglass canopy..... no wonder it's a pig to shoot down. and been left that way for two freeking years."
two freeking years !!! hmmmmmmmmmm
There are others stories of 110s consistenly turning inside of Spits and the the 110 is the choice of the newbie in WWIIOL. If that the preferred choice of a newbie, then there has to be something wrong.
Take your monkey and your grinder somewhere else and beg.
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(http://www.veruca.org/pics/retard1.jpg)
that should be better...
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
That's the beauty of a pyshics based model.
In real life, all it took was one lucky bullet to pass through the glass and hit the pilot in the head to end it.
In real life, sometimes you could spray a plane without hitting anything vital, just peppering his aircframe with drag inducing holes.
It doesn't have the same appeal when planes take X amount of hits to kill, and always take X amount of hits to kill. every. single. time.
Pilot kill, SOMETIMES, not EVERYTIME.
If you want to see a physics model done halfway properly try Il2 or FB. That's the work of professional coders, unlike the third-rate hacks at CRS.
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zeroace, their flight models are so damn accurate that their planes fly faster when inverted, take off like a helicopter (110 film was hilarious) and their modelling of the .303 / 7.9mm /20mm cannon ballistics is laughable.
I will say something for WW2OL though, as it is NOW its got an impressive netcode, ive yet to see an online game that can have so many morons online at one time and not create lag (a-la everquest where 400 people in one zone across the world from where you're at would slow you down to horrido speeds).
Aside from that, the game itself gets a 4/10 in all areas it tries to recreate. Ground war is but a pathetic tank quake with cap-the flag use for the infantry (when they are not there to pad the tank's kill stats); air war is no different than MSCFS1 on easy (arcade FM with arcade weapons), naval war.. what navy?
graphics are not that impressive, but its ok considering its an MMPOG (heck look at AH, its the quality not the graphics.. too bad WW2OL has neither).
WW2OL community is great for the most part... great to make movies and parodies and I must admit, I love their sigs. I cant make out their l33tsp33k crapola that pollutes 95% of their threads though.
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VERY BAD TASTE veruca !!!!
It would be in GOOD TASTE to remove that pic and make your point in some other manner that is not so OFFENSIVE.
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see what happens when the schools close for summer break?
these ww2ol cheerleaders are another argument for year round schooling...
ps - tried ww2ol - it stunk as a flight sim
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Originally posted by TW9
Is this true?
Uh...Yeah, TW9, just tell him Ripsnort told you to call him. ;)
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Originally posted by straffo
Plus as a frenchman I canno't support the idea to fly the over France without the most important plane of this period : the MS406 (I'm speaking only of the fighter part of the air force)
The MS406 won't be designed for a while because it's simply not any better than what the French already have (the H-75, Dewontine 520, and H-81).
Unforunately CRS is not yet at the stage in development where they can build every variant and every aircraft just because it participated.
They have been managing their resources to focus on the equipment that will be bring something unique or useful to the table.
Wrong ,just because a joystick will never behave like a real stick.
The nuances you can feel depend of the size of the discrete value of your lookup table (it's function of the availlable memory).
I'm not talking about joystick feel.
Nuance in the flight model are the little things about a planes performance that you just can't get from a table...
In a table based FM like CSFM2, they had to input things like the corsairs spin characteristics based on pure anecdotal evidence.
With a physics based FM, those spin characteristics would happen on their own, and there would be no guessing involved or room for error if your psychics were correct.
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i'll tell you the one major thing wwIIol has over every other game,the best damn community of players and devs around. [/B][/QUOTE]
ROTFLOL:rolleyes:
Now THAT WAS TOO FUNNY :D
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Well I just had to come here to set straight some misconceptions about the flaming 110 helicopter that is being blown wholey out of proportion.
I discovered this bug during the 1.6 open beta test. Yep thats right a BETA test. You see it is encouraged to find hiccups and bugs during the testing process in order to fix them, because no matter how good something is, if it is man-made there are flaws.
Well anyway I thought the bug was hilarious, and so did Bushman (the one who made the movie), so we decided to film it before I reported it in the testing forums.
Well the bug was fixed and there is no such thing as the helo 110 anymore because the dev team fixed it.
I also tend to find 'leet-speak' discrediting to a reply and the person who replied it, but that is just me. Posting stuff like "Killers a studmuffin for posting **** when he really has no idea about what he is talking about." doesnt speak highly about ones community, especially when you are saying that a developer has no idea what he is talking about when it is his game. I love WB, WW2OL, and AH, but a disrespectful community is not good publicity for any game. Though it may seem like Ring is trying to sell WW2OL like an Avon lady, he is actually just requesting people to come in and join our community for 7 days. It is free and there are no stipulations, so why are people hostile about it?
Are you afraid of liking it, or are you so proud of AH that you are unwilling to think that there is anything else to try? Both of these are just fine. Respectful opinions, but hostility towards the other side is a denial of opinions of others just to reinforce your own.
Well that is all I have to say. Have a good one.
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We're getting pwned guys! Run!
I don't wanna get pwned again.
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Originally posted by OIO
I cant make out their l33tsp33k crapola that pollutes 95% of their threads though.
Little help here...
I need a translation...
And to the guy with the Special Olympics poster, very poor form.
You are certainly not making the case for a mature cimmunity over at WWIIOL.
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Originally posted by veruca
ah... 'studmuffin' spoken like a true 12 year
I hope you are refering to me. Please, please be referring to me.
I'd be more than willing to call killer a studmuffin on his own BBS.
But alas, the oh-so-brave one has deigned those not stupid enough to actually pay for his product are to be forever mute on his BBS.
BTW. If ww2ol were doing well, do you think the developers would be asking you to shill out the game on competitors boards?
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You just don't get it veruca ... do you ?
I am a 2nd degree black belt in the Korean art of Tang Soo Do and I teach Karate to a class of mentally challenged kids.
I have seen more character and determination in these kids than I have seen in most non-mentally challenged kids that I also teach. I abhor the use of their image or their plight (as anybody should) to make a derogatory reference or point.
Show some class and get rid of it.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
The MS406 won't be designed for a while because it's simply not any better than what the French already have (the H-75, Dewontine 520, and H-81).
Unforunately CRS is not yet at the stage in development where they can build every variant and every aircraft just because it participated.
They have been managing their resources to focus on the equipment that will be bring something unique or useful to the table.
I'm not talking about joystick feel.
Nuance in the flight model are the little things about a planes performance that you just can't get from a table...
In a table based FM like CSFM2, they had to input things like the corsairs spin characteristics based on pure anecdotal evidence.
With a physics based FM, those spin characteristics would happen on their own, and there would be no guessing involved or room for error if your psychics were correct.
Unfortunately nothing short of a Cray can handle a full physics model at this time. Oleg Maddox had to drop many modules from his Il2 physics model because no home CPU could come even close to coping with the data. FB had a few more included, but still far short of the full complement.
So please stop talking about WWIIOL's model like it's the full enchilada, coz it ain't. It can't be, period.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You just don't get it veruca ... do you ?
I am a 2nd degree black belt in the Korean art of Tang Soo Do and I teach Karate to a class of mentally challenged kids.
I have seen more character and determination in these kids than I have seen in most non-mentally challenged kids that I also teach. I abhor the use of their image or their plight (as anybody should) to make a derogatory reference or point.
Show some class and get rid of it.
I saw that image on another site a few months back and ripped ass. It's use is despicable, mean and cowardly and only indicates that it's poster needs to be introduced to reality. Hard.
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Originally posted by ZeroAce
The damage model needs no explanation at this point.
The flight model runs off pure physics, not speed tables, at a much more detailed level than even the regular IL-2, which is one of the reasons it taxes your CPU so heavily.
What utter, utter, utter BULL****!!!
To even THINK you can compare WWIIOL's FM with Il2's sends any shred of credibility you still had straight down the sewer. Comparing WWIIOL's air component to Il2's in ANY regard is like comparing **** to sugar.
Either your ignorance is monumental or you are a shameless liar. Go away and don't come back until you have removed your head from your dribbling sphincter. Please.
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Note I specifically referred to the regular IL-2, which uses a detailed hit point system and does have many more canned aspects to it's flight model than WW2OL.
Much of that was improved in IL-2: FB.
However, in IL-2 the flashy sounds and graphics do such a good job of immersing you into the cockpit that they could have an arcade flight model and it would still impress people.
Unfortunately nothing short of a Cray can handle a full physics model at this time. Oleg Maddox had to drop many modules from his Il2 physics model because no home CPU could come even close to coping with the data. FB had a few more included, but still far short of the full complement.
I never said WW2OL could match miltary level simulators.
But it's still the most advanced in it's field. And no, IL-2 is not in WW2OL's field, WW2OL could do everything IL-2 does and more if they didn't have to worry about combined air, sea, and land in a seamless scale model of europe with thousands of players.
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LOL this reminds me how folks at AGW responded to AH'ers posts err.. couple years ago?
btw there's plenty of AH'ers already in wwiiol.
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Geez I cant believe I read all the posts above.
WW2OL people, sorry but you have not posted anything that makes me want to try out the game.
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seabat, we didn't come here to convince you to play the game, we just ended up trying to refute all the lies and misconceptions that sprung up about WW2OL.
Let the game speak for itself, that is what the 7 day trial is for.
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We typically do not get involved with threads about other products. When someone from another game posts information about that game, it is generally taken as information.
However, this thread has evolved from being a helpful topic to one full of speculation and other nonsense not related to being helpful.
ZeroAce, you have no idea how our modeling works. Just because Killer talks about how they used to do it, does not mean it is done that way now. Therefore, I request you cease talking about our FM in a manner that suggests you have a clue as to how it really works. Thank you.
Now, shall we get back to playing our respectful games.