Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: davidpt40 on June 03, 2003, 01:49:15 PM
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I don't want to get in a bragging mode here, but I am an experienced 'Hog' pilot. The F4U-1 and 1D are good aircraft in the hands of an experienced pilot. But what plane isnt??
Now the F4U-4 offers a decent climb rate, about 3500fpm. Not spectacular, but it allows it to be competitive in the arena of La7s, P51s, Spitfires and N1K2s.
4U-4 does 380mph on the deck with WEP, ~360mph with mil power. At 25k with WEP the F4U-4 will top out at nearly 450mph. Anyone have a dogfight at 25k recently? Not I.
So what is the F4U-4? To me, its basically a Navy version the P51D. Performance might be slightly better in some areas, worse in others. P51 is about 5mph slower on the deck, and climb rate is ~200fpm less from 0-10k.
So here is my plea: Unperk the F4U-4. Give the Navy pilots a fighting chance against the swarms of Fw190Ds, Bf109g10s, La7s, and P51s. The Hogs we have now are slow, climb poorly, and for some reason fall off the end of the flight deck of CVs. Go Big Blue!
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could say the same thing about the spit XIV. All later war RAF a/c are perked!
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i agree both planes shouldnt be perked.. But they dont perk planes because of how good they are.. if so the la7 would be perked.. I thought they perked them because of the limited number of those planes that were built or because they didnt come till very late in the war...
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then why are both the spit XIV and Tempest perked?
Tempest = April '44
Spit XIV = Jan '44
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Originally posted by MwTW9
i agree both planes shouldnt be perked.. But they dont perk planes because of how good they are.. if so the la7 would be perked.. I thought they perked them because of the limited number of those planes that were built or because they didnt come till very late in the war...
Planes are perked because HT feels if they weren't they'd effect the game play by making it unbalanced.
Ack-Ack
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I've always thought the -4 was a hell of a plane...limited time in it but from what I recall it'll eat most of the plane set for lunch. I think the perk value is a bit high but its far superior to any of the unperked rides.
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Leave the perks on the F4U-4 and Spit XIV, but just have the icons say F4U and SPIT.
Having said that, 1 v 1 the Bf 109G-10 is more than a match for the Spit XIV. I'd say they are pretty evenly matched, I've flown on both sides of that in the Combat Theater and some of the best fights I've had the pleasure to enjoy. Definitely some of the most evenly matched ones. I've taken up the XIV in the MA once or twice. I think I discoed both times. It's about as untouchable as a P-51D or 109G-10 if you get on top of the fur and cherry pick. It's a little more survivable than both if you take it into the fur (less so if you take into account the neon sign saying "forget everything else and gang me!") I think 20 perks would be fine, only because if it was free, 9 out of 10 Spits would be the XIV, and 20% of the planes you saw would be the XIV. Just call it a SPIT though!
I can't say I've flown the 4Hog before. I've never flown it actually.
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imho i think the perk rides are over-priced (except for the 262). perhaps if their eny values were cranked up, so that:
a) there's no particular incentive to be gained by killing one except the satisfaction.
b) they'd earn more than a measly .01 perk for getting 35 kills.
either that or lower the costs about about 35-40% of what they are now.
having said that, i have enough perkies to fly them exclusively for quite a while, however, they really just don't appeal to me.
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Hmmm, I think I'll try the F4U-4 tonight... sounds interesting.
Leave the rook -4 alone!!!!
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They are perked for the same reason the Hog1c is perked, no one would bother to fly the other Hogs if the c and 4 weren't perked. Same for the spit 14, why fly a 9 when you can fly a 14? Just my opinion.
Yet they alow an arena full of la7's, go figure.
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the -4 does is better then the p-51D in every way exept range.
perk prices are about OK (I'd lower the price on the spit14) and they can get really cheap if you are on the outnumbered country.
Also, I bet alot of those who complain about lowering perkprices have a few thousand perks on their account. USE THEM!
Bozon
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f4u4 outclimbs the P38 and accelerates twice as good as a P-51.
Its more like a tiffie but with one hell of manouverability.
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Originally posted by Steve
Hmmm, I think I'll try the F4U-4 tonight... sounds interesting.
Leave the rook -4 alone!!!!
LOL steve..
I think spit14 and temp should be perked but not so damn costy. They are way too expensive and everytime you do fly them you have to come in high and stay high or every red plane will be on your asss. As for the F4U-4 I say unperk it. It does have some good numbers not much better than the 51 though. One think about they U4 is seems if pull a hard turn your back at 220mph. When I fly it I seem to lose E really fast with it and we all know it cant turn slow. I dont see why it is perked. Im guesing the G10 shows better numbers than the U4. If the u4 had the guns the chog had I could see it perked.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
They are perked for the same reason the Hog1c is perked, no one would bother to fly the other Hogs if the c and 4 weren't perked. Same for the spit 14, why fly a 9 when you can fly a 14? Just my opinion.
Yet they alow an arena full of la7's, go figure.
NO way thats not why the perk them...cant be. If was that way they would perk B17s and B26s so more would fly the kate :-) Think of the spit1 hurricanes hell all the early war planes. Maybe they should perk everything but early planes and put light perks on late war planes then. I dunno I like it the way it is, just dont fly perk planes except 262 and once awhile the Tempest. Just never perk the P38 :D
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The only thing that takes the fun out of the "reward" of flying a prop perk plane is the perk tag. This is particulary true of the F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ta152H-1. They simply haven't got the performance to survive the gang bang those tags call on them unless their pilot is well, well above average.
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I agree on the perk tags. They should read SPIT, F4U, 190, and TEMP:D Seriously though, the only perked fighters that should have a perk 'tag' are the 262 and the 163.
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I flew the f4u4 for a sortie tonight.. WOW!!
I'm talking WOW! What a plane. IMHO it's better in the MA than the tempest. It's a pony with FW like roll rate better climb, dive.
Man what a sweet ride!!
12 kills, no re-arm..
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet
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just be aware an la7 can catch u on the deck - barely... with both in wep. no wep, it's a dead tie.
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57526
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wow bud, didn't know it was that fast :)
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I agree. The F4U-4 is not an easy plane with which to get results, and control can be lost at very high speed. It's definitely not worth 70pp, and wasn't even worth the old price of 60pp.
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I know this doesn't help my case, but the F4U-4 has a 2:1/3:1 kill ratio for the last several tours.
Good to see some motivated HOG pilots in AH.
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ive never seen f4u-4 go above 15 points
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Beetle quote: "The F4U-4 is not an easy plane with which to get results, and....."
Beetle, I disagree with you here. IMHO it's a hybrid pony/D9. Fabulous flying traits, a real killer. I only flew it one sortie I'll grant you... but as I posted.. 12 kills, no re-arm, easily.
Your response might be something like: "That's one sortie Steve, could be a fluke."
You're right there sir(assuming you thought that, lol). I'll fly say.. a total of 10 sorties and re-adress this. I promise to change my tune if my findings coincide with yours.
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Yeah! Unperk the F4U-4 so they stop to run away from my c.202 in fear of loosing perks to the crappy yellow spagetti plane, which I love to fly so much! Right Rauml? :D
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Originally posted by swoopy
ive never seen f4u-4 go above 15 points
You're either a Rook, or you're thinking of the F4U-C. Maybe both.
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The F4U-4 is slower than the 109G-10 at all alts except on the deck. It's slower than the P51-D and FW190-D9 between 2k-14k (where most of the fighting takes place). It's slower than the La7 below 7.5k.
The 109G-10 substantially outclimbs it at all alts. The FW190D-9 outclimbs it to 16k. The La7 outclimbs it to 8k. The P-38 outclimbs it from 1k to 8k and if compared with a full jabo load the P-38 will out climb it at all alts pretty handily.
Don't get me wrong...the F4U-4 is a helluva plane. Should it be perked? Maybe. Should it be perked as high as it is? Heck no. The performance doesn't warrant it. It's an average turning plane with ground attack capabilities with good (not great) speed and good (not great) climb.
Check here for the comparison charts.
http://www.jannousiainen.net/online_sims/jg_4/index.htm
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2nd sortie. An LA7 suicided himself to get a shot at me, managed to one ping both my elevators, I crashed on landing attempt.
5 kills
Starting to realize just how irritating the perk icon is... how the hell can you tell f4u-4 from f4u1-d at 6.0?
Rediculous
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I fly the F4U-4 frequently. It's a very capable aircraft. I did some offline acceleration tests and it ranked up with the best.
I set up with every fighter taking off with 50% fuel, fuel burn set at .001. After taking off, I leveled off at 300 feet, adjusted throttle until speed was stable at 200 mph. I then went to full power with WEP (where available) and recorded the time needed to reach 300 mph. Results as follows rounded up to next second increment.
1) Tempest: 25 seconds
2) La-7: 26 seconds
3) Spitfire XIV: 28 seconds
4) (tie) F4U-4: 31 seconds
5) (tie) Bf 109G-10: 31 seconds
6) Fw 190D-9: 33 seconds
7) (tie) P-38L: 36 seconds
8) (tie) Yak-9U: 36 seconds
9) (tie) Typhoon: 36 seconds
10) P-51D: 37 seconds
11) Ta 152H: 41 seconds
12) F4U-1: 44 seconds
13) P-47D-30: 50 seconds
14) N1K2-J: 56 seconds
15) Ki-61: 82 seconds
Based upon this testing, the F4U-4 demonstrates the ability to hang with the fastest fighters in the game, especially low level and at medium speeds, where much of he combat takes place.
At high altitude the F4U-4 really shines. Yet, in my opinion, the best fighter in the game is the Spitfire XIV. It can out-climb, and out-turn the Tempest at any altitude. Up high, it's considerably faster as well. I tend to think that a Tempest driver's worst nightmare is to discover a Spit XIV above him.
Also, get rid of the perk tags for all perked fighters.
My regards,
Widewing
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Leaving aside 262, I think I agree with Widewing.
SpitXIV is like a G-10 on steroids. Outclimbs anything, the vertical is absolutely awesome and, as an extra, propeller's rotation makes her better turner clockwise. This makes *really* difficult for any other fighter to follow.
I like a lot that plane, although I don't use it that much.
Regards,
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Originally posted by AtmkRstr
You're either a Rook, or you're thinking of the F4U-C. Maybe both.
mm i think the signature shows who i fly for ;)
if u move to knights u get cheap planes all the time:D
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Id like to be the first one to say...
perk the la7 :D :D
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Originally posted by swoopy
if u move to knights u get cheap planes all the time:D
Dang! Country (should I say "Chess Piece"?;)) Cheat!!!....low perk price despěte Knights Arena numbers! :D
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Originally posted by Pepe
Leaving aside 262, I think I agree with Widewing.
SpitXIV is like a G-10 on steroids. Outclimbs anything, the vertical is absolutely awesome and, as an extra, propeller's rotation makes her better turner clockwise. This makes *really* difficult for any other fighter to follow.
I like a lot that plane, although I don't use it that much.
Regards,
Too bad a P-38 can out turn one.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Too bad a P-38 can out turn one.
Ack-Ack
Who needs to turn to shoot down a P-38 in a SpitXIV? :D
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Originally posted by Nifty
Leave the perks on the F4U-4 and Spit XIV, but just have the icons say F4U and SPIT.
Having said that, 1 v 1 the Bf 109G-10 is more than a match for the Spit XIV. I'd say they are pretty evenly matched, I've flown on both sides of that in the Combat Theater and some of the best fights I've had the pleasure to enjoy. Definitely some of the most evenly matched ones. I've taken up the XIV in the MA once or twice. I think I discoed both times. It's about as untouchable as a P-51D or 109G-10 if you get on top of the fur and cherry pick. It's a little more survivable than both if you take it into the fur (less so if you take into account the neon sign saying "forget everything else and gang me!") I think 20 perks would be fine, only because if it was free, 9 out of 10 Spits would be the XIV, and 20% of the planes you saw would be the XIV. Just call it a SPIT though!
I can't say I've flown the 4Hog before. I've never flown it actually.
Yes yes change the tags. I have 10500 fighters perks that go unused because evey dweeb in the game will crash into you to kill you.
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Originally posted by icemaw
Yes yes change the tags. I have 10500 fighters perks that go unused because evey dweeb in the game will crash into you to kill you.
I agree completly.
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Yes yes change the tags. I have 10500 fighters perks that go unused because evey dweeb in the game will crash into you to kill you.
Look how well the C-Hog works, low perk cost, nobody knows what you are until you get close enough to see and by then there might be 20mm hispano in the air already. I have no idea why they didn't do the other perk planes the same way, even to just give it a try for a while. Only the 262 can survive with a perk tag and a somewhat aggressive style of play. All the other perk planes simply die 10 seconds in to a swarm of HO's or they hang around picking off guys near the edge of the fight... why bother.
-Soda
The Assassins.
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I was going to take an F6F-5 up one day and accidently misclicked at the hangar and it didn't really sink in until I had taken off. I had selected and F4u-4.
7 kills later, I landed and thought it was rightly perked.
MiniD
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Originally posted by Mini D
I was going to take an F6F-5 up one day and accidently misclicked at the hangar and it didn't really sink in until I had taken off. I had selected and F4u-4.
7 kills later, I landed and thought it was rightly perked.
MiniD
What were you drinking? Not noticing that you in pit of an F4U instead of the F6F? Heh.... Oh well...
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Originally posted by Mini D
I was going to take an F6F-5 up one day and accidently misclicked at the hangar and it didn't really sink in until I had taken off. I had selected and F4u-4.
7 kills later, I landed and thought it was rightly perked.
MiniD
I did something similar with a Spit14 once....figured I was having a great night for once, scoring several kills and ran back to land.
Oh, and yes...bookooo quantities of Bud Dry :D
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first i would like to say you fellas are correct with the gamey tags on the aircraft... but...
Think outside the box...
f4u4 is a p51 that is carrier based with a lower internal fuel option...
same guns, near same handling...(actually f4u4 is superior at all except ludacris speed - "Dark Helmet would be proud")
Front over the nose view is superior in IMO..
More tricks can be proformed in F4u4 such as wheel brakes... better rudder... flapping etc...
With the current tags you know every knucklehead in the arena is going to be over aggressive in trying to down you...
use this to your advantage. My prefered tactic is the high alt vulch... (12-20k) note there are others but this one i enjoy, lots....
Fly over enemy base and watch lemming after lemming try to climb up to you... you have the dumb lemmings (ones who LA7 climb at 200mph ) the smart lemmings (keep their airspeed up) and the sneaky lemmings (the ones that fly away and then try to comeback to you with speed and advantage)
You would be suprised the complete lack of tactics by all three types when they get perk plane fever and error all over the place... They ignore everything, fixation is a understatement...
Expect the headon... one more time for the numskull impaired EXPECT THE HEADON... you avoid this and you have little problems..
Your F4u4 can rope with the best of them and then dive accelerate like a ton of bricks... (exp... some times i swtich targets when multiples are below... this really catches many with thier pants down... then extend out and climb back up to a perch... repeat.. E retetnion is awesome...)
slowly you will lose advantage and you need to leave enemy airspace... Practice will help you here determine when is the right time....
when in doubt leave... dont be greedy...
Rogue LA7 drag.... (just example la7 is most common at chasing you) nothing is more pleasurable than to have some La7 finally come close to netralizing your e state.... then you employ bait and switch tactics.. you bait them by draggin them away from their buddies does not matter where or how just as long as you have the fuel to make it home safe...(some times i go deeper into enemy territory as that is the safer option....
try to maintain at least 2.0 k away from the la7 druring this process....
once safe from being bounced by multiples reverse on the rocket 7 using a low 2-4 g turn.....
The F4u4 excells at low g turns and you will whip around pretty fast with minimal e loss... the La7 will either go passive (the stupid immelman that serves no tactical purpose) or aggressive ... either way... if you proform good acm high yoyo's (my favorite using superior rudder to gain angles) you will eat the la7 alive... if he went passive follow him up.. (f4u4 is no slouch in vert) (out angle him at top of the loop, maintain lag pursuit in process)
One thing I would like to add, the f4u4 when on someones tail is hardly ever shaken off the saddle... Its rudder , brakes and dive accel are exceptional... All F4's have this trait but the F4u4 doesn't get beaten down in the vert like the other F4's.
If he tries to bait you into a extended tail chase let him go... break off on a slight tangent and watch how quickly his aggressive arse will reverse (but see you already know this and am waiting for this stupidity) another dead LA7 (insert plane of choice)...
Your only threat in the air is the tempest.... The tempest can out bleed you in a turn (hence out radii) and out accelerate you... always be wary of them.... 4 hispos can ruin your day in one erratic spray...
other than that no other plane in the air save the LA7 and tempest can hang with you...
109 = compression/elevator lock
mustang = angles fight, turn radii, rudder, brakes etc...
p38 = superior engine and speed roll you name it...
yak = low g turns bleed the hell out of it.. no dive accel poor weapons...
Niki = holy speed advatange batman...
nuff said on planes...
Add a wingman and the f4u4 is nearly untouchable on all levels...
One more time its carrier based... A high end carrier based plane is just unfair when used correctly...
You guys arn't flying her right....
derserves its perk... (now the la7 should be perked, but thats another story)
2 cents
DoctorYo
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Originally posted by LePaul
Oh, and yes...bookooo quantities of Bud Dry :D
Where are you that you can still get bud dry??????
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La7 is easily the equal of the F4U4 down low. Personally I think it is better, but thats just me I guess.
Also.... a 109G10 can kill any plane in this game. People really underestimate that plane. Only 'fast' plane that is better than a 109G10 is the La7. Tempest is better to, a little bit.
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dryo is correct in the way that the late war monsters need to be flown... this makes for a very boring arena. perk planes ruin the arena as do most of the late war planes.
The fact that you see so few perk planes in the arena is what makes em tollerable. Anything done to encourage more perk planes in the arena lessens the arena.
lazs
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I agree, lose the perks for this plane..... For the type of enviorment that exists in the MA the F4U-4 is hard pressed to shine. It does offer some advantages over other planes that are some what similar in characteristics, (ie. P51-D) But they are few and far between. The plane is no greater of a threat than a spit1 if the pilot flying it does not know how to use its strengths to his advantage... Same goes for all a/c...
<> All
Jeffer
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got 20 kills in one sortie last night in f4u4 ... plenty uber for me
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I've landed 14 kills in one sortie in an La5. Doesn't mean it needs to be perked.
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Originally posted by lazs2
dryo is correct in the way that the late war monsters need to be flown... this makes for a very boring arena. perk planes ruin the arena as do most of the late war planes.
Hmm
I would argue that the reason people are forced to fly the perk planes like rutabagas is that when they get down into a fight, they're going to have every sucide-dweeb within 5000yards bee-lining for them.