Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Jimdandy on January 15, 2001, 12:05:00 PM
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I have a suggestion. Make two arenas, a full realism and a relaxed realism. The relaxed arena would be basically like it is now, In the full realism arena we could star adding some of the things the more hard core of us want to see. Navigation, gun jamming, mixture and prop pitch, etc. We might have to live with a lot of patches but we could added and subtract ideas as we got them.
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"In the full realism arena we could star adding some of the things the more hard core
of us want to see. Navigation, gun jamming, mixture and prop pitch, etc."
...and bring back THE NIGHT!!!
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Uhhhg what a terrible idea.
We have no need for 2 arenas, thats why AW is there...for the RR crowd.
Many of the "more realism" ideas you have are nothing more than added complexities (and moany of them quite silly IMHO). This is a GAME, it is not a 100% accurate simulation of what it is like to fly a WW2 era plane. We are here to have fun and test our piloting skills, not to see who can feather a prop and adjust mixture the best.
GUn jams are certainly something that may want to be considered if they were of STATISTICAL and game SIGNIFIGANCE. I would see no point including this type of feature
if it occurs in only 1 in 25 flights where the guns are over heated by continuous firing.
Oh well...just one mans opinion!
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While I agree with you Jim, I don't think it would be a good idea to have separate arenas like that. I used to think the opposite, but after seeing how the difference in realism philosophy fragmented the Warbirds community, I'd rather that we just accept Pyro's decisions on which realism features get added, and which don't.
Leave the hard core realism stuff for the scenarios.
I will, however, continue to lobby for more realism in the Main Area.
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I disagree. AH will be fun as long as it remains ONE arena.
Splitting the game into arenas will only result in one arena being largely empty and the other one being filled with people that want to be in the other arena but are forced to be in that arena because that's where most of the player (aka, action) is.
Want realism? Add gunjams, get rid of the icons (allow friendly icons ONLY) and you will see a significant change in how the game is played.
Complex engine management could be seen as "candy" for the sim, but I am no pilot in real life, I have no clue what this do-hickey does and what effect it has on the plane.. and I sure as heck dont want to be forced to do 12 steps to turn on my engine or whatever. Add complex engine stuff as a toggled option for those hard core pilots that want to use it.
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maybe a decent comprimise would be to make the realism arena very small - is that wacky?
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i think fun to see everyone want something
that rarely happened like barrel wear and overheat. overheat is hard to have since these guns were air cooled, even ground bases mgs could fire sustained rate for a while, being in planes they got cooled down alot easier then ont he ground since
ur flying 200+mph at 10k+ which would mean
air temps below 0+ wind chill.
and not to wear, lol, barrel wear would only effect a player if they made several, hot rearms. cause wear would never come into
play with u .ef and take off everytime, cause realisticly the ground crew would inspect and replace the barrels as needed before each flight. AH gives u a 100% perfect plane on each new hop.
gun jams, were a factor, especially when firing under high G moves, or badly made ammo.
whels
Originally posted by 2Late4U:
Uhhhg what a terrible idea.
We have no need for 2 arenas, thats why AW is there...for the RR crowd.
Many of the "more realism" ideas you have are nothing more than added complexities (and moany of them quite silly IMHO). This is a GAME, it is not a 100% accurate simulation of what it is like to fly a WW2 era plane. We are here to have fun and test our piloting skills, not to see who can feather a prop and adjust mixture the best.
GUn jams are certainly something that may want to be considered if they were of STATISTICAL and game SIGNIFIGANCE. I would see no point including this type of feature
if it occurs in only 1 in 25 flights where the guns are over heated by continuous firing.
Oh well...just one mans opinion!
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I agree Jimdandy, but I would emphasize the historical aspect. I would love to see a HISTORICAL ARENA with HISTORICAL TERRAIN, including nightime terrain, and HISTORICAL PLANESETS.
"Historical" accuracy and "realism" would be the goal. The "realism" would have to be balanced with gameplay. Certainly, it wouldn't be for everybody, but you would want wide enough appeal to at least be able to find at least 20 or so players there at any given time, and hopefully many more during events. That would be so cool. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Gunthr
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We are here to have fun and test our piloting skills
Ever noticed how many people speak for the entire Aces High population when they respond to threads like these?
2Late4U .... who exactly is 'we'? I noticed you said it was just one man's opinion in signing off, but who the heck does 'we' represent?
BTW, unless you're are being ironic I think you're missing the point of the original post. AH doesn't need to 'create' a relaxed realism arena ... it already exists in the MA. However, I firmly believe a 'full realism' arena might be nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
You want a contrary 'one man's opinion'? Aces High as a RR 'game' must compete with Warbirds, Air Warrior, CFS2, Fighter Ace 2 etc. If it went the 'simulation' route it would be competing with itself. I don't mean complex engine management. I DO mean trying to increase the 'immersion' factor as much as possible, within the bounds of reason.
Heck, just 'one man's opinion' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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=357th Pony Express=
Aces High Training Corps
[This message has been edited by Jekyll (edited 01-16-2001).]
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MY opinion: (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
No In-Flight Radar. And when this is hopefully gone, add a Radar Station in fields/boats.
No GPS
NO (Big NO) to sector counters for GV or <200ft. AGL flying aircrafts. (I think this is on the way, thks in advance Htc.).
Yes Full engine management.
Yes some difficulty added to Norden sight.
Yes player able to control only one TG.
Yes player able to control TG from bridge or gun stations only.
I think AH has gone down the gamey road some miles now. Although I'm having fun like a boy in a toyshop, IMHO some more real issues added to the sim/game will be just OK.
Btw, I DON'T QUITE QUIT! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Cheers,
Pepe
[edit] With Radar Station I mean a manable Radar Station, where a player (or more than one) can see the Radar images, like the real thing (or close to, tho I'd love to see the scanning rotary beam in a green screen (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)). Of course damage model as present.[/edit]
[This message has been edited by Pepino (edited 01-16-2001).]
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Originally posted by Tac:
I disagree. AH will be fun as long as it remains ONE arena.
Splitting the game into arenas will only result in one arena being largely empty and the other one being filled with people that want to be in the other arena but are forced to be in that arena because that's where most of the player (aka, action) is.
Want realism? Add gunjams, get rid of the icons (allow friendly icons ONLY) and you will see a significant change in how the game is played.
Complex engine management could be seen as "candy" for the sim, but I am no pilot in real life, I have no clue what this do-hickey does and what effect it has on the plane.. and I sure as heck dont want to be forced to do 12 steps to turn on my engine or whatever. Add complex engine stuff as a toggled option for those hard core pilots that want to use it.
You missed the point I think. I did say the RR arena would be the present arena. You could play in RR. I do agree that there would be far fewer people willing to go to all of that trouble. That's the point of make another arena. As mrfish pointed out it could be a smaller arena. It may have to wait tell we get a lot more people on the game itself to get enough people to even keep a 50 person arena alive. Hell I might get in there and find out I don't like all of the 'reality.' I'm just thinking it could be offered for those who are really dying to set and warm up there engines. Or take of with a cold misfiring engine because the enemy caught them by surprise. Or deal with gun jams, engine management, etc.
BTW I think night should be brought back to the MA. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I don't see why not. We had an HA (hope for action)arena in WB. the "historical realism" guys could go in there and hide from each other. All half dozen of em. I don't think we have a big enough player base for both a main and a (cough)"historical" arena but sure go ahead... In WB it was/is deserted.
I think the engine management thing is just playing with yourself and the gun jams etc. are phony plus the lack of radar is just a way to avoid fights...
If a person wanted "realism" they would fly in realistic formations and have realistic missions. Maybe random ac problems so that those who didn't want to fight could claim "engine problem" and peel off. Without those things you have no realism... they are what counts not the other stuff. course.... I don't want that either.
lazs
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If we get a full-realism arena I want pre-flights to be modeled. Random failures like oil-leaks, exhaust manifold corrosion, leaking fuel tanks, etc should all be modeled and shown graphically so you can catch them on the ground. Vacuum system and electrical faiulures are a must. Also this business of having a brand spanking new airplane everytime you launch is ridiculous. We should require everyone to join a squad in the full-realism arena, and each squad should have a maintenence chief who decides what gets fixed on your shot-up airplane and what doesn't. Resupply should be limited. Maybe HTC can simulate ferry flights from main fields to remote fields before new planes can be used. Also, pilot availabilty should be limited. If you get wounded, you should take a reasonable time to recover before you can fly again. If you bail over enemey territroy, you should have to walk back to friendly lines before you can fly again. Slow perhaps, but that's the way it was! And if you die, you should be banned from the full-realism arena for 18 years to simulate the time it takes for you to be reborn, grow up, enlist, and go through flight training again. That will help keep the numbers up in the MA.
Sorry guys rough day at the office. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Just go out there, have fun, and lobby for EM!!! My true opinion is that it should all be kept in the MA, just based on numbers. On the other hand, if someday we have 300+ in the MA, perhaps this idea could work. I really owould love to see some new "realistic" features simulated.
BB
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Well, as long as you keep a "baseline" of having "real" flight model, damage model, and gunnery model, I don't see why you can't add as many other "realism" features as you want, but then make them "player-selectable."
For instance, say you added full engine/prop controls. If I elect to USE full engine/prop controls, then I would get a SMALL performance advantage, be it slightly increased range (i.e. different fuel modifier) or maybe a couple of percent more horsepower IF I set my engine/prop "correcly." If I DON'T use the full controls, then my engine/prop are set "permanently" at a "good" compromise setting, but I don't get quite as "optimum" performance as the guy who's doing all his own management. OTOH, the guy who uses full controls "poorly" would get less out of his powerplant than the guy who just uses the default "good" system. An "expert setting," which rewards you for learning it (but only a SMALL reward).
Other realism features could be toggled on or off, like the nav map, gun jams, etc. Using them would give you a slight score modifier, which could also be tied into the perk point system. Selecting the lower difficulty settings would be fine, but you'd have to get a FEW more kills to have the same score/points as someone on full difficulty.
And everyone stays in the same arena, so long as you don't compromise on the flight model baseline (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Some times you guys crack me up
Give me a realistic as possible flight model
realistic as possible ballistics model/weapon firing characateristics/damage model
If atmospheric conditions can be realistically modeled w/o too much overhead give me those as well.
Ultra-super-realistic engine management is for FS98/2k so go fly those.
I'll fly around in the dark patroling for bandits in scenarios, in the MA I want to know where the fight is so I can fight
Give me an entire wing of B-17s in formation on my B-17 and then give me the norden's historical accuracy (and dinnae forget to give me all the training needed to use it as well).
You dinnae want to use the "GPS nav" system or the AWACS, print the clipboard map and keep the roster page up while you're in flight, then plot your course. And you can go hire all the spotters to sit on the ground scattered across the map to make sighting reports. You seem to forget that the "pinpoint" radar only has a range of 12.5miles from the tower at airbases/ports and from the flattops.
I do think no markers for aircraft flying below 200ft AGL is a good idea, but you've got to have some warning of ground vehicles or the map will be over run w/o any chance to stop it.
Dinnae force your "harder for the sake of being harder" on me, thanks.
This is a game folks. It's not supposed to be harder just for the sake of being harder. I'm here to fly and kill with realistically modeled weapons from 1939 to 1946. The reason I play is to have fun and relax, and it's awfully hard to do that some nights with the constant gangbang/rubber bullets/whatever.
I always thought that relaxed realism in flight sims referred to the flight model, as in not being able to stall/spin the kite, and maybe having guns that throw beer kegs instead of bullets.
Since when does not having engine management controls that require a PPL to understand how to use them qualify as relaxed realism?
[This message has been edited by CavemanJ (edited 01-16-2001).]
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Originally posted by Jimdandy:
You missed the point I think. I did say the RR arena would be the present arena. You could play in RR. I do agree that there would be far fewer people willing to go to all of that trouble. That's the point of make another arena. As mrfish pointed out it could be a smaller arena. It may have to wait tell we get a lot more people on the game itself to get enough people to even keep a 50 person arena alive. Hell I might get in there and find out I don't like all of the 'reality.' I'm just thinking it could be offered for those who are really dying to set and warm up there engines. Or take of with a cold misfiring engine because the enemy caught them by surprise. Or deal with gun jams, engine management, etc.
BTW I think night should be brought back to the MA. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I better repost this to make sure people are reading what I say. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Dang a lot of people can't just say no. They really have try to make the guy posting look like he's got a screw loose. It's a suggestion. Relax people. Calm down. It is just a game. We don't want to rock anyones cradle now. LOL! Some of you just blow me away. On top of that HT will decide the economics of it. It will probably never happen.
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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CavemanJ,
I think you are answering to my post. Sorry to crack you up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Since you are answering point by point, I will do the same:
- Ultra-realistic engine management is not only for FS98/2k users, but for flight sim lovers as a whole, and AH is a combat flight sim, IMHO. Besides that, It is another factor that can help a skillful player/flyer to turn tables on superior plane/superior initial e-state situation. Just like trimming, flying smoothly, etc. etc. etc. As for the go fly those, please read my post: I DO NOT QUIT. Sorry if that means another crack for you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
- Sector coutners will tell you roughly where bandits are, and where the fight is developing.
- I was not asking for norden historical accuracy, for I do not know how it was historically. What I do know is that It needed some time of flying straight for lining the gyros up and this issue addresses two different things that lacks a good solution now, again IMO:
a) Lack of navigation skills needed in buff missions.
b) Lots of banking and jinking on buffs on the final run over the target. NO WAY. If a buff banks and jinks on apporaching the target, he will ruin his lining and,thus, his bomb mission. This solution will ease the lethality of buffs, since they will be severely handicapped in their manouvering ability in the critical moments of the drop.
- For the GPS issue, I am sure that above all the different perceived problems/proposed solutions you want a fair game. Everyone using the same tools. So Ok, I take this "...print the clipboard map and..." as a license for the sake of your argument. The pinpoint radar does have a range of 12.5 miles...that is false. As it is now, is 12.5 miles around each airfield with operative radar. What this means is that whith your handy GPS/JSTARS link you see what is happening some 100 miles away.
- You want a warning that something ugly is going to happen to your base... hmmm....IMHO, that's precisely the role of a treetop level buff mission. Surprise, Surprise!. Still you have ack, VH, etc. etc. to try to counter. Maybe not enough for you, It is Ok for me.
- I only give my opinion, and I regularly try to be as little pushy as possible. I only point things that IMHO, would make this sim/game better. I appreciate your condescendece in what It's worth. In the meantime, please realise that only Htc. can force all of us here to do anything. Not me. Neither that I want to.
- YOUR opinion is that this is a game. Some of us might disagree and think this is a sim. Some of us may think this is a different think. You do not know what is "supposed" to be. You do not want to fly and kill with realistically...etc. You want to pop up and look to a surreal battlefield presentation by WWII standards, then jump onto a plane realistically modelled in some parts, some artificially automated, fly the shortest path to the fight already found by your artificially precise and limitless radar, the same that covers nicely your back and prevents nasty surprises, etc....
I do not know if a 100% realistic implementation would be fun, and I am not asking for that. I will make it clear so you can understand this time: I only give my opinion on some issues that, again , In My Opinion would make this sim/game better. If that's coincident with Htc. oppinion, and they think it's right, fine for me. If not, I will continue playing/having fun/relaxing whith the actual model.
Cheers,
Pepe
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Well, things that would make this game realistic without being overly complicated would be:
1) Friendly Icons Only. This would introduce some REALISTIC dogfights for once. In WW2 most of the kills were achieved because the victim never saw them. In AH you can quick scan the views not caring to really see whats there but just looking for the red billboard. It will also add teamplay and some real ACM situation (aka, losing sight of the con you were following)
2) No dar bar below 200 ft
3) RADAR: Dot radar avaliable 30 miles from any friendly field BUT (and BUT!) the dot dar is only UPDATED every 5 seconds. This will get rid of the "I can see you in dar during the cloud fight" dweeb tactic and will give players the chance to find each other and fight. If you see a red dot near you, you will have to stop staring at the clipboard map and scan the skies, 'cause that con may already be diving on you!
4) More cloud layers (with no icons it will be VERY fun.. and gives buff pilots an added problem & cover)
5) Gun Jams (CHOKE ON YOUR HISPANOS %$%#$ CHOGS muahahahaah)
6) Engine Overheat (aka, running at 100% manifold will put your engine on the redline and THEN maybe blow up or cough into silence)
7) Repair Depots in airfields (to waste perk points repairing your perk rides)
8) Add bomb dispersion so buffs arent laser-accurate and introduce carpet bombing to the game.
9) Add some 5k or 8k fields in the home islands/home area so buffs can take off them and not waste the entire hour climbing (which is why I think there are so few bomber raids).
10) Give fleet gunners a raised point of view from which to fire control the guns. The CON TOWER on the ships is the best place imho.
11) Fix the damn FLAK.
[This message has been edited by Tac (edited 01-16-2001).]
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My idea of realitiy is sweating off 10 lbs just sitting down for one sortie just from stress and excitement alone. If HTC can achieve this... housewives across the land will be more accepting of the time their hubbies spend on the computer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
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I don't agree that iconless arena for enemies is the way to go. It's too confusing for newbies. We tried and tried iconless arenas in WB. They were totally unpopular, even amongst the diehards. Instead lower the distance at which icons appear. WHat is it now, 9-10? Make that 5-6 and you can get bounces if you add...
Sun Blindness. This was awesome in WB the way HT had it. Killer. Icons and dots vanished when they were close to the sun. Combine lowered icon ranges with sun blindness and you WILL see bounces work. The coding trick will be to make sun blindness not work underneath clouds. I'd take it with sun blindness through clouds, though, just because clouds aren't a big part of the game.
Engine overheat should be a part of WEP. Instead of just having WEP turn off, make the engine approach overheating and sputter out if you leave WEP on too long. That gives the heat guage a purpose.
Putting in the Norden delay would be welcome. As it is you can bank the plane, whatever. As long as the crosshairs are on, boom perfect hit, no matter the angle of the plane, etc. Make course and speed corrections catch up with the Norden, and you will see alot of misses.
XX
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The MA is a compromise arena, probably the best compromise by far that I have seen. IMO HTC really knows what they are doing with it so I hope their changes to it continue to be steady and thoughful as they have been in the past.
As far as inconless arenas, ez mode, etc.... all of these appeal to certain smaller subsets and I certainly hope that someday HTC has 20 full arenas so that everybody gets to fly in an arena that closely matches their tastes. Right now we only have enough players to support a single arena. Do your part and sign up some friends.
Hooligan
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I'm in the very small minority that would love an axis vs allies arena with evolving planeset . No icons and no clipboard radar with long nights and realistically inaccurate buff guns . I asked HiTech when he was online if AH would EVER have an AvA arena, he said that he doubted it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Totally with XX!
Sun must be a factor as well as engine degradation due to overheat. WBs (HiTech) had several great features that have not yet been implimented. I wish we could have the compression modeling HiTech used in WBs.
Yeager
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I didnt say iconless arena. I said friendly icons only. Any black dot in the distance that does not have a billboard is enemy.
When you are in a con's 6 trying to follow him, dont tell me you dont simply use your views to just look for the billboard with the ID icon of the plane you were following.
Its ridiculous. I fly H2H with my friends without icons and those are REAL, exciting and sweating dogfights... we lose sight of each other, circle, extend, etc. Play with enemy icons on and all you get are wusses taking d1.1+ shots thanks to their laser rangefinder, and people who are completely relying on the icons because they know that they will re-acquire their target in a split second.
Has AH ever had a friendly-icon only scenario? has it ever been tried with a lot of pilots? Really, it does give the game a true approach to ww2 aerial combat.
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well... I think the GAME is targeted for the largest group of WWII area flight sim junkies... The ones who want to have action and fun. Worthless and contoversial busy work features are just that. Some of the less well read guys believe that they have found ways to neuter their own personal demon planes with "realism".... Say, the myth that hispanos are any less reliable than other 20mm for instance... These guys would not be at all enthusiastic if they realized how much more unreliable the german electric primers were than standard anvil primers or, that some U.S. fifties could be recharged after a jam while airborn say.
Others... are just very interested in detail.. they like detail at the expense of fun... No, not quite, they actually believe detail is fun. They are in the minority and many anal engine management systems would bore existing players and chase away new ones. All to very little purpose. Shove everything all the way to the stop and you would "realistically" be fine for as long as our sorties are anyway.
Axis vs allied? Glad that ones off the table.
lazs
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Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
My idea of realitiy is sweating off 10 lbs just sitting down for one sortie just from stress and excitement alone. If HTC can achieve this... housewives across the land will be more accepting of the time their hubbies spend on the computer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
AKDejaVu
LOL! Now for just 29.95 try the new AH workout! Here the testimonials! "Honey you've been looking so slim and trim and manly lately what have you done."
"Well Babe it's that new AH work out program. Just 1hr a day and I'm feeling like a new man." (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-16-2001).]
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Dang I have to ask this. Everyone does understand that the MA as it stands now would still exist. I will say it again. I think we will need more players total than are signed up at present to get enough people to fill even a small arena of say fifty people. You will have to have a lot of people signed up to get a statistically large enough crowed that would be interested in something like this. It may be a couple of years down the road. I'm getting the impression everyone that doesn't like the idea thinks I want it implemented tomorrow. I also have to admit that wanting and having may be two different things. I might try that arena and think it stinks. In the end it will be the people at HT that will decide if it is economically feasible. They probably aren't even thinking of it.
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(LOL BigBen!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
Jimdandy, I vote no full-time HA, no RPS, no unnecessary realism in the MA. My opinion: realism arena == scenarios.
I think HTC should strive to make the best sim around by keeping it accessable to newbies--meaning don't burden the user with unneeded complexity--while focusing on things that matter to the vets that have made the game what it is today, like perfecting the flight, damage, and ballistics models... never tweaking or nerfing weapons or flight models for gameplay's sake. Further, they need to flesh out the planeset and foster more community-driven events (yes, they already happen, just not often enough for my taste). In short, I believe those who are asking for a full-time realism or historical arena would be happier flying large scenarios on a more regular basis.
"Too much of a good thing...."
I'm all for historical matchups, realism, and one-life events... they rock! But I don't want it all the time. Really, flying an hour escorting bombers, eyes peeled for bandits the whole way, fighting for a few intense minutes over the target, then RTB'ing on vapor with battle damage, and landing with less than 5% fuel remaining is mentally exhausting. I'm not a WW2 pilot and I don't want to deal with that stress every flight! Lets face it, the CMs have a lot of work to pull off scenarios too... they can't do it all the time either. A full time realism arena couldn't possibly have the full-time organization needed to support the realistic flights it is meant for. It would quickly become under-utilized and boring.
The MA is soooo much easier and amusing (that is what we're here for, right?) to deal with on a regular basis. I want to be able to log in at any time and get some action! Also, you can think of the MA as training ground for the scenarios. Fly with a wingman or a squad and learn team tactics... or just repeatedly solo launch from a capped field in a CHog and HO everyone in sight--whatever you're in the mood for!
Aces High is still a young sim, relatively speaking. Scenarios (big ones, little ones, impromptu ones) will get more popular in time, which will lead to them being held in multiple time slots, as they do in WarBirds. When the community has everything it needs (more planes, more power to the CMs) there will be more scenarios. If you're still unhappy, get a WarBirds account and fly SLs, S3s, and EMCs... they're still a hell of a lot of fun and draw huge numbers, even if WB's graphics suck compared to Aces High.
Okay, what do I mean about more power to the CMs? How about if a CM had the ability to load new maps in a special events arena on the fly? He could set icon ranges to the yard--or turn em off completely. He could turn off the map overview and radar in flight, leaving radar only in tower and radar-equipped planes. Toggle engine overheats and no auto wep-off safety. Maybe control alter a random aircraft part failure variable (ug, I really don't like that!). The CM could have complete control over a single special events arena during his scheduled time. The CM could make it as "hard-core" or as ez as the players want. HTC gives us some more early and mid-war planes (not just late war uber rides) and I guarantee that place will see some serious action, and HTC will have many more $30/mo "hard-core" customers who join just for the organized events.
HA has been tried and failed. Scenarios work.
--
Sancho
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/mahurin_sig.jpg)
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Well said sancho.... I am the perenial newbie... I have been doing this for years but still furball and have a good time. I have yet to see a scenario that even tempted me to join in. I think there is a place for em but they aren't for everyone.
Two arenas won't work... One will be deserted. RPS will chase away players as will axis vs allied. Perk planes will be a disaster for the growth of the player base IMO...
There is of course a way to introduce early and late war planes into the arena that will be fair and not hamper choice or give anyone an advantage/disadvantage tho.
The way I look at it.... I would rather lose one "realism" vet and gain 1-4 newbies anyday.
lazs
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Thks for this thread, Jimdandy. The least I can think of it is as a wonderful feedback gauge for Htc. Everyone of us is neatly portrayed here, I guess.
I woud not split Arenas. Not enough numbers yet.
OTOH, I would not think on newbies as a reason for not toughening the model, let alone tone down the one we have now. Neither I would think on the ones that like it as it is for the gameplay issue...Tuning down realism, or stopping evolution would not add anything positive, IMO, to this sim.
The way to deal with newbies is help. This mean taking the pain of going out and fly with them, etc. There is no help in easing the model. And there is no improvement in leaving the things as they are now.
Happily, AH is an evolving and ongoing matter, and as time goes by, the rolling releases will please ones and unplease others. But moving towards a realistic environment will attract perhaps fewer people, but will keep this sim away from CFS2, CK, AW, FA, and the like. If somebody find this sim to bee to hard, and the learning curve too steep, there are other flavours outside. The problem is with the ones that want the opposite. There is no alternative.
I am happy to be shot down in the most challenging combat sim in the market. Not the hardest for the sake of being the hardest, but the hardest for the sake of being the closest to the real thing. I am a WWII aficionado, and I like all this stuff. And I like this sim because it can provide lots of fun, and a smell of what involved to be there, if you just imagine it's not your virtual, but your real life that is at risk.
This is the way I would like AH to keep moving to. As close to the real thing as possible. Of course there will be gameplay concessions, dimensions of our virtual battlefield and fuel multiplier comes to mind, but keep them as few & little as possible. Realism is not easy, both to model and to manage. But is the only solution to add ways to try to reverse tables, sneak attack, strategy, tactics, etc. The kind of things that make this THE game for me.
As this thread prays...reality, what a concept!
Cheers,
Pepe
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Call a priest, hell must indeed be freezing over !!
My Proof? Me and Lazs actually agreeing on something (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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There are those who want the instant bogey dope and a laser rangefinder so they can use the heavy firepower of a limited production monster to make kills at ranges that would earn them a court IRL, Then there are those who have limited time, just want to log on and relax by blowing people up in twisty turny knifefights over the most congested airspace around,and then there are those who want to fly as close to real life as a computer will allow, to recreate the history behind the conflict.
Ya know what? They're all right, disagree on what elements are needed in the game, but don't claim the other guy's got it all wrong, or that you are the majority, ya speak for yourself, period, and you want what you want outta AH, period. I'd like a helluva lot more realism myself, But HTC has to go with what is more marketable, and what falls into accordance with their own philosophy about the game they create, and they're right too. In short, some things might change, some might not, but stop trying to beat each other up verbally, It took years for the WB community to devolve into this kinda bickering and disagreement based upon who posted the opinion, well,well, second time around, guess we just hadda do it faster huh? Quit picking at the scab, let it heal, go out and spend a tour flying the Zeke, or if you already fly the challenge-birds, go catch a ride in one of the certified deathmachines, step outside yourself a bit, and see if ya really need to get so hot about it.
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Way back in the days of Fighter Ace I gave up the RR arena and joined my friends, the Musketeers, in the full realism arena. In retrospect that arena is more akin to the main arena in Aces High, though it was very tough at the time. Most of us flew exclusively in the full realism arena, most of the time without tags, which we dubbed "flyin' nekkid". Because I let them shoot me down so often (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) they adopted me into the squad. That was more than two years ago, and we still miss those days. I think I could speak for The Musketeer Escadrille by saying YES! to the full realism arena.
(http://www.nethawk.org/images/NetHawk.jpg)
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awww come on lazs ya ol' crank! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
a realistic arena would be fun - the MA ought to stay the same and there would definitely need to be more players signed up so that an ultra real arena doesnt pull people out of the MA or sit dormant from too few people- i will concede that - but if there were enough players a small ultra-realistic arena would be fun
- in fact it would be a great value-added option for HTC because the ultra-real set would come just for that and besides the MA would remain the same so nothing would really change -
- if those parameters are agreed on then maybe something can be initiated in the future no? -
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Hey, I'm all for reality, But i don't think WWII fighter pilots had their wifes screaming in their ears to take out the garbage whilst trying to down some LW steel.
NUTTZ
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mrfish... we are talking "reality" here right? The reality is not in busy work worthless features. Reality is in FM's and gunnery and damage model... fix all those best you can. Use scenarios or even a whole new arena to adjust settings. I Would not enjoy an arena that was too anal or boring.... No, being bored or just busy is not "fun" for me. Waiting in a tower to get organized or reading up on an event before hand is not fun for me either and I avoid those things...
I do realize that some do enjoy this and would like even more details all the way to engine warm up and pre flights. What I find amazing is.... The people who cry for "realism" don't fly finger fours or go on assigned missions or escort bombers or any of a number of things that seperate our "fantasy arena" from "realistic" WWII combat. The complications that have been asked for are either superflorous or unrealistic or both.
Reality? reality is an empty "historical" arena.
lazs
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sheesh lazs just razzin ya-
here read this:
"...the MA ought to stay the same and there would definitely need to be more players signed up so that an ultra real arena doesnt pull people out of the MA or sit dormant from too few people- i will concede that..."
i think it ought to be a seperate arena - sometimes after a few brews i would not be interested in fuel management and icing when its all i can do to stay aloft! lol anyway it would be nice as an option - in a seperate arena, when it makes sense to do so business-wise - no changes to the ma
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lazs,
Why engine management is not "reality" by your standards? Why is only in FM, gunnery and damage model? Why are you (or anyone else) entitled to draw there the "reality" line?
If we talk a bout reality, the issue is clear, and it is not what you say. Reality is REAL life.
If we talk about realistic models, I would say the closer to reality, the better a model is, since it reflects more accurately the real circumstances. You do not decide what is real or not.
If we talk about fun (and this is, IMO, what you are talking about) the line is blur. Here you can give your opinion on what is needed to improve your fun in the game, but not what is real or not. And what is not fun for you maybe is fun for me, and viceversa.
FYI, there is quite a bunch of people in this sim that do fly missions. And try to stick to formations. I myself fly the happy trigger guy sometimes, but I would not say that is the usual stuff for a majority here, and certainly it is not for me.
You find amazing that you do not see formation flying, or missions. Try to take a peek at the Map Room from time to time. I do fly missions on a regular basis (thks, Zigrat).
You say what amazes you. I will tell you what amazes me. People standing like theirs is the only valid opinion, stating black over white (sic)"The complications that have been asked for are eithere superflorous or unrealistic or both". Well, let me tell you, that is your particular opinion. May or may not be coincident with somebody else. When you say things like that it looks like you have some background that allow you to elevate your opinions to the fact category. Have you? If so, please enlighten me. If not, put the acronym IMO where we can read it, pls.
Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but one thing that I learned in this forum is to distinguish facts from opinions. When you give your opinion, say so. And respect who have a different one.
Cheers,
Pepe.
And I don't cry.
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[oops, double post]
[This message has been edited by Pepino (edited 01-19-2001).]
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pep... they are superflorous because in the time frame that out sorties live in they would be a non issue for most of the time... in order to confer and advantage/disadvantge based on em, you would have to have some kind of trumped up time modifier. They are busy work and development time poorly spen when instead we could have....
Realistic damage... No hollow no-flamable planes.... Oxy bottles, radios, electric and hydraulic systems to damage/destroy... Ammo varients, incenderaries etc. Now.... You tell me... what is more "realistic"? What is needed more? features that don't matter or ones that do?
lazs