Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SKurj on June 04, 2003, 11:35:25 PM
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Heyas, well the big old bonneville ate the back of a soccer mom's mini van.... (sadly blame falls on me... the idjit that ran the red light causing the accident took off before anyone could get a plate +(...
Anyways, I am looking for a cheap car (under $20K) here is what I've looked at: (all standard trans and AC, some have a few more toys than others)
Hyundai elantra: (135hp)highest monthly lease payment over 4yrs
Saturn ION1: largest of the bunch, most HP(140, 2.0L) and 2nd lowest payment
2004 Nissan Sentra: (126HP 1.8L)best handling so far, interior a shade on the ugly side
Mazda Protege: only looked at the 1.6(104hp or there abouts), but nice interior and nice to drive, but abit buzzy and noisy, gutless wonder. May look again at the 2.0L (130hp i think)
KIA RIO RXV: (104HP)best warranty, cheapest of the lot
Ford Focus: drive one tomorrow, probably the ZX3(130HP)
Honda LX Coupe: (115HP)2nd most expensive, most features, coolest, drive one tomorrow, so far I am thinking this will be the one...
Dodge 2.0 SX (neon): (132HP) looking tomorro
Suzuki Aerio: (145HP)think I will not even bother with this one, lotsa power for its size (more than any other in the list) but too ugly
The Saturn I really liked, the plastic panels seem a good idea. Does it count as a domestic... I notice it shares an engine with the cavalier/sunfire, which I refuse to even look at. Thats the downside to it.
Right now I think its gonna come down to a choice between the Focus, the Saturn, and the Honda. I think as far as holding its value the honda wins hands down (not done any real research of the other cars in this area though) The honda dealer will even let ya walk away from your 4yr lease after 3yrs due to how well the car holds its value. Kinda seems silly to tell customers that... I wanna see it in writing..
Saturn bonuses: free weekly car washes as long as you own the car
Focus: 4 free LOF's, $50 off any brake work, $300 off any body repairs over $500.
With the exception of the KIA, the rest all basically share similar warranties. 3yr 60,000 bumper to bumper, 5yr 100,000 power train, and the emiisions stuff. Gonna revisit exhaust, only recall the mazda having the exhaust system warrantied.. think it was something like 10yrs!
Anyone had experience with any of these cars? How about the cost of the first services? Honda salesman says first major service is 170,000km... if thats true then the next owner can worry about it heh.
oh yeah, colour choice gonna be silver cuz it hides the dirt well. If thats not available ... black just because!
oops one more question... can you modify a leased car at all? just wondering if I wanted to change shocks springs wheels and tires etc.. never thought to ask the dealers. Wouldn't even consider touching the power train while under warr.
SKurj
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Take a peak at the Mini Cooper. Its more roomy than a Focus and you can get one new for under $20k. And... its a hell of a lot more fun than any of the cars you have listed.
MiniD
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I've heard good things about the Focus.
Civics are always great.
Hyundais have come a long way.
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Also this is on the high end of the price range, but the Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS is a lot more car than any of the ones mentioned, including wussy version of the Mini that DJ owns.
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Check out Toyota too. Corolla is smurfy as hell, but the lower end Celicas would fit your budget. They reputedly handle very well, and they are pretty sleek.
Acura RSX is another one right at $20k, but a lot of car for the money.
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I've owned a 91 Saturn for the last 6 years or so. Not an Ion obviously, but an SL1 SOHC. 91k miles on it, never had anything expensive done to it (power steering pump died once, leaked on alternator and killed it - $300 buck fix). One $300 fix in a car's 12 year life is a good deal to me.
Plastic body panels are excellent. Thing still looks like it's a year old. People are very surprised when I tell them it's a 91.
Saturn is owned by GM, but is independently operated - Saturn was try number 2 at a new mentality for making cars (GEO being try #1). So it's American, but not controlled by GM.
If I didn't have my heart set on something with 4WD to do some off-roading in, I'd buy another Saturn in a heartbeat. Especially some of the new ones, they look great IMO.
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I recomend buying and restoring Pacers. Pacers, the original "bubble" car, look fantastic tooling down the highway.
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Personally, I'd rather walk than be caught in a Hyundai or a KIA. The secretary here used to work for the roadside assistance hotline for them, said she heard all sorts of weird things breaking on them. I think she even got a call of a KIA that just started to melt on one side. If a brand new car only costs 8,000 bucks, there's probably a reason.
Anyway, I did own a '97 Neon for a while, and never had any problems with it. Great little car, got me from Maine to Colorado a couple times. Pretty good on gas mileage too, if that's a concern. IIRC, I was getting a little over 40 mpg on the highway, around 36-38 normally.
Also, I have a friend here with a Mini Cooper S, and that's a fun little car, but the key word there is little. If you want to put more than 2 people and a gym bag in there, you're in trouble.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Take a peak at the Mini Cooper. Its more roomy than a Focus and you can get one new for under $20k. And... its a hell of a lot more fun than any of the cars you have listed.
MiniD
He speaks the truth.
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Guys, sounds like he needs to buy a new car to get low financing and/or low monthly payments. The Mini-Cooper would be too expensive.
As a former Saturn owner('96 SL2), I must admit that I never had any mechanical problems with my SL2 for the 7 years I drove it. It was a good little car. Saturn has 0% interest financing for 5 years, too. Plus, the Saturn service dept. is top-notch.
That being said, The Saturn fit & finish and resale value cannot hold a candle to the Honda Civic.
All-in-all, after having the Saturn for 7 years, I regretted not buying the Honda Accord or Civic back in 96'.
If I were you, I'd go for the Honda.
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Here's another reason to like the Civic: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00031.htm
You've just proved to yourself that accidents don't just happen to the "other guy". Be safe, get the Civic.
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hey fellas.. the mini cooper is over $20k here in canada eh, the most expensive cars I'm looking at are actually under $19k here. If I could afford a mini, or even the subaru I would have considered them. Cheapest deal on a mini advertised here is $100+ more a month inc. taxes than anything I've listed.
here's some bad news... just phoned for an insurance quote... I'm 36, haven't had a ticket in 10 years until this accident. Unfortunately this is the second accident claim in 3 yrs, I've never made any other accident claims before....
This is canadian $, the honda is the most expensive to insure at $200 more than the cheapest per year:
$5400 a yr....
Both accident claims likely total around $1000 more than that.
:(
Might try and get the car in the folks name, and see what the rate is...
Or I'm gonna be buyin a schwinn
SKurj
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To put in perspective... priced a base Mini Cooper: 435 a month 4 yr lease, civic coupe 272 a month canuck bux don't ferget
SKurj
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I forgot we were talking funny money, my bad.
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Ah... canuck.
I still say get the mini and just work harder.
MiniD
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Civics have a high theft rate thats why its more..Expect your ins rate to go up since your accident too..
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nuch thats insurance rate does take into account the accident, and as I said the civic is $200 more than the cheapest car i priced, the 4 door saturn.
The difference is less than 4%.... 5400 vs 5200...
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
Heyas, well the big old bonneville ate the back of a soccer mom's mini van.... (sadly blame falls on me... the idjit that ran the red light causing the accident took off before anyone could get a plate +(...
You do understand why you got a ticket for rear-ending her right? I always have to go over this one with the ppl after the accdent. You were following to closely, if you were the two car lenths behind you would have had time to stop. Thats the idea anyways
It doesnt however make you at fault for the incedent. If it is three cars like you say, then you only got a ticket for following to closely, and not for the accdent as a whole.
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The police basically claim it falls on me...
the guy who initially caused the whole thing took off...
I was given a careless driving charge which is in the courts now, and likely will be pleaded down to following too close.
Someone has to be at fault here for insurance. I ran into the back of the car in front of me so I am automatically at fault..
This is the first ticket I've had in at least 10 yrs +(
I had a small accident 2 yrs ago in which we accepted 50/50 at fault.
As far as the insurance co is concerned at least the first I called, that = 2 at fault accident claims within 5 yrs.
I am waiting for a price with me as an occasional...
If I am missing something in regards to this guy who took off... Its a case of there is noone else to blame as far as I know... so they gotta pin it on someone and I am easiest to slap.
SKurj
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I had a '92 Saturn SL2. I bought the SL2 because I couldn't afford the Saturn sports coupe. It was a great First New Car. Sales was smooth, convenient, great service and repair, free breakfast and lunch on service visits, and the plastic body panels probably saved a little girl's life when she rode her bike in front of me. I didn't have any problems with the Saturn until the dashboard connector points cracked and the dash started sagging on the passenger side. I'd had it for 5 years when I traded it in and I probably would've kept it but I really wanted something bigger.
Leases are for businesses that can write it off as an expense. Otherwise, you're going to get hammered at the end and have nothing to show for it; no equity, no value, nothing. You're better off buying and keeping it.
If it were me, I'd get whichever car will do me right the longest. I think you'll find the Honda to be the best middle-of-the-pack car, the Focus ZX the most fun, and the Ion the most comfortable. And then I'd get the options I want. I've always believed in buying as much as I can afford in a car since I'm going to be driving it for awhile.
I'd also check the recall list to see which one has the most problems.
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we have a focus zx3
So far we love it.
It is our # 3 car behind the 350z nissan and the ford explorer.
PS there is ALL kinds of hop ap stuff for the 2.0 zetec engine.
You can even get a supercharger for it LOL.
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I don't know why you would want to lease a new car. For 20K you could get a slightly used accord V-6 coupe. Used car financing is pretty cheap also these days.
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Skurj I think the logic behind their finding is that she had the right to put on her brakes whenever and wherever she wanted. The red light runner caused her to put on her brakes, but you caused the accident by failing to brake sufficiently to avoid hitting her.
Now if she had been kind enough to t-bone that idiot in front of her, you would have been off the hook. :)
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Honda or Saturn
I tend to buy based on company quality, service and reputation.
honda's run forever, saturns are good quality/price IMO
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It's not very fashionable, or sexy, or nippy, but consider saving your money and getting a top of the range Proton. But get one that's 18 months old. I've driven Protons for nearly 10 years. I've only had two and the first one aced the crunch test big-time (I was cut out of it).
They're cheap to run, cheap to maintain, very reliable, thieves don't like them, and cheap to insure.
Don't get a Kia. I tried one and it was like driving a brick.
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Proton? whats that? must callem somethin else in Canada... if they sell them at all..
Anyways Thanks for all your input guys!
Unfortunately the cost of the insurance.. I got it down as far as $350 a month, rules out my getting a new car...
So now I am looking at spending what cash I have in hand ($3000) on a used clunker which I will only have to have the minimum insurance on until I can clean up my record.
Got my eye on a 90 civic with 145,000kms on it for $2300 (CANUCK BUX)
SKurj
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just droped a $1400 tranny on a babyed car( $2400 ) at the saturn dealer**** price. I will never set foot in a saturn dealership again.
1999 sc2 85k nice but still has that gm stink about it ( gm written on most parts ). some stuff has real quality but the crappyness shines thru whole dash can be shook with the stick shift. water leaks ect ect.
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Originally posted by SKurj
Got my eye on a 90 civic with 145,000kms on it for $2300 (CANUCK BUX)
That generation of Civic is one of the better ones. My sister has a 90 EX that is running strong and a good friend has an 89 Si that is also going strong. Those both have the injected SOHC 16V motor, very nice unit.
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Ditto what Funked said...a buddy of mine drives a 90 or 91 EX and the thing is still rolling at 190k. He beats the piss out of it too. So far he's had to replace a distributor and the clutch, nothing more than brake pads beside that.
SOB
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brother is sayin the same thing about the 90 civic. Also mentioned if i can find a cx, the thing is pretty simple, no toys and gadgets to worry about.
Car shopping... fun but a drag!!
SKurj
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Skurj if your going to go with an early 90's car deffinetly try out a Honda. I bought my 91 accord 2 and half years ago for 3K Canadian and it's still running strong. 250,000 Kilometers on it, original clutch! (nothing wrong with it at all, no slip nothing), the only serious work I've needed to do on it was an exhaust manifold and the clutch master cylinder, total of about 500 $ work
other ussual maintanance things excluded. oil changes 1 brake pad replacement(accords seem to wear out brakes pretty fast, but i have a manual tranny so it's not too bad) valve adjustments( again hondas need em adjusted every so often ).
so for 2300$ and 145 K on it, go for it you'll easily get up to 300K if you take care of it.
and you'll laugh at the price for insurance!
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Just another Nod at the Saturn
Don't let the plastic bodywork concern you...its very easy to keep clean, wax, shine, etc....and can take a few shopping cart dings.
I'm shopping too but with a slightly larger budget ($25k) I've always liked the Hondas and am leaning that way.
The Saturn is costing me more lately...timing chain replaced, tie rods...all those things that usually require replacing are chiming in at once. I got 8 years out of her and when I gas'd up today for $14, I got 27mpg...all city driving.
Cheap to insure, too
If you get a Saturn, get the sunroof. ;-)
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Originally posted by qts
It's not very fashionable, or sexy, or nippy, but consider saving your money and getting a top of the range Proton.
What's the North American equivalent? They may not be over here because of safety/emissions problems. Same reasons Trabants aren't allowed to be imported here, even used ones.
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yea get the sunroof as its probly gonna leak water with or without a sunroof as mine and every other one i have ever seen did. sunroof will make it nicer on sunny days and keep the mildue smell down. so you can smell the oil they burn more easily thus reminding you to add a quart every 500 miles. saturn says every one dosen't know how to maintain a engine, neither car has never gone 3500 on a change.
just dont buy a saturn. or if your determined, i have 2 want one ? sell you a 95 sl1 for 1200 bucks :) 160 k on the odo and no ac ( did a mention the compressors suck)
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dolf!! where do you live?
will u deliver? +)
i am dreading going into the city car shopping tomorrow
SKurj
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Well... I bought a car, 1991 Toyota Corolla LS 4dr 5spd no toys(yay).
188,000kms (do the math yanks)
new clutch, new clutch slave, new exhaust, new ignition wires and cap thingy.
Interior is mint, cept some idiot got something on the passenger side window.. windex, dish detergent, goo gone, none would take it off... razor blade took some of it off whatever it is... dad thinks perhaps someone got fantastik on the window.. dunno.. anyone have any suggestions? I got most of it off, and likely most ppl wouldn't notice it, but I do.
Safetied, emissions tested, $3000 CDN including taxes (15%)
Pretty happy with it, 1 small patch of rust about the size of a $1 coin near front wheel well.
Car spent 4 years in germany owned by a woman in the military so its been spared at least some of our winters eh (salt..) Have all the service records.
I figure it will last me a couple or three years until I can afford insurance on a new car...
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
Well... I bought a car, 1991 Toyota Corolla LS 4dr 5spd no toys(yay).
188,000kms (do the math yanks)
new clutch, new clutch slave, new exhaust, new ignition wires and cap thingy.
Interior is mint, cept some idiot got something on the passenger side window.. windex, dish detergent, goo gone, none would take it off... razor blade took some of it off whatever it is... dad thinks perhaps someone got fantastik on the window.. dunno.. anyone have any suggestions? I got most of it off, and likely most ppl wouldn't notice it, but I do.
Safetied, emissions tested, $3000 CDN including taxes (15%)
Pretty happy with it, 1 small patch of rust about the size of a $1 coin near front wheel well.
Car spent 4 years in germany owned by a woman in the military so its been spared at least some of our winters eh (salt..) Have all the service records.
I figure it will last me a couple or three years until I can afford insurance on a new car...
SKurj
WTG. I think I had that exact model as a rental once except it had an automatic. Was a very nice car to drive, even at 100+ mph.
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Had it up to 80mph or so so far, and its as quiet if not quieter than some of the new cars I drove Funked. And its still barely pulling 4000rpm at that speed with the dinky little 13" wheels it comes with.
I may consider going to a slightly larger wheel and tire combo next year for the summers, especially if i find myself commuting on the highway (401).
Best part so far... $20 took it from nearly empty to over 3/4 of a tank!! +) the bonneville cost close to $50 for a fill.
SKurj
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ok, i probably read it wrong, but your insurance is 5200 a year? Mine is below 1k on a 2000 explorer. I had to have misread that.
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As far as I'm concerned, it's like throwing your money away.
The car has absolute zero resale value. A friend of mine has a 99 SC2 and the car is worh 5k at most, but he still has 10k left to pay. :confused: gotta love interest.
i have a 96 SC2 that I've done pretty much everything you can do to it. high performance magnecor racing wires, coils, intake, exhaust, rims, bored throttle body..
didnt street port the engine though...
however now that i have the rx 7 which is 7 years older, i can see the difference in quality. there's nothing the 7 has which isn't nicer (except passenger space) then the saturn. and i can't get rid of the farging saturn either!!!
i guess if you just want a car that can go from a to b a saturn can do it for ya.... but i dunno, it's just frustrating that a car can be so badly made and underpowered. the plastic paneling is about the only thing in the car that is made well - every other part is VERY cheaply made and still incredibly expensive to replace.
the new ions look allright but it's still a SATURN and it's one of the 5 brands dealers don't want to see on tradein. (SATURN KIA HYUNDAI SUZUKI DAEWOO)
lastly, every saturn dealership i've run across is run by a bunch of farging crooks in service/parts. mine went in a few weeks ago to have the coils replaced, and now they're telling me that my head gasket is blowing and my transmission needs to be replaced. sigh. gotta love people who think they can convince a kid that a car which has been babied and has 85k miles on it needs a new head gasket. what it *does* need is a new cam cover gasket but that's something entirely different.
anyway thats my rant.
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None of them cars yall list is enny good at haulin'... How you gonna get a load of sheetrock, six cans of sheetrock mud, your gas powered circular saw, two cases of beer, and your deer rifle to the job site in any of those?
At the very least, get yourself a F-150. (4x4 of course)
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Skurj, as Funked already suggested, consider a Toyota.
I have a '96 Celica, no extra manteinance since I bought it, 4 years and 100.000 Km ago, it's a 1.8, only 116 HP, but with the good areodynamics can push to 235 km/h (hit just once) and commute @ 190-200 (my cruise speed).
And the handling is wonderful and honest (she give you all the warnings before taking control ;) and in all occasion I have experienced, she start losing first the rear leaving you the edge to recover).
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Hehe well I guess 40 posts maybe a bit much to read through, but if you read my last couple of posts...
Insurance 5200 well that was correct for one quote. I eventually got it down to 4000 which was still too much and in the end prevented me from buying a new car.
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj
Hehe well I guess 40 posts maybe a bit much to read through, but if you read my last couple of posts...
Insurance 5200 well that was correct for one quote. I eventually got it down to 4000 which was still too much and in the end prevented me from buying a new car.
SKurj
lol, sorry, missed that sentence :)
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Originally posted by Naso
...and commute @ 190-200 (my cruise speed)....
I guess the local Carabinieri are sleeping :D
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Originally posted by straffo
I guess the local Carabinieri are sleeping :D
It's a question of Situational Awareness.....
...And luck!!! :D
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Originally posted by Dnil
ok, i probably read it wrong, but your insurance is 5200 a year? Mine is below 1k on a 2000 explorer. I had to have misread that.
I pay $875/yr on a 2001 BMW :D I have a friend 2 years younger than I who pays $2100 on year an identical vehicle, but he's had 2 speeding tickets, and 1 accident in the last 3 years.
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Hyundai elantra - in 3 years this car will be worth about $2,500. I think these cars lose their value faster than anything else.
It's a lot more work, but do some hunting and buy used. Either buy twice the car that you're going to buy now, or spend half as much.
eskimo
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yes rip but does the BMW have enough room for your head? :)
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Think I may have said this above, not sure but anyways...
If I had a 6 star rating (clean for 6 years) the insurance on the brand new Honda coupe would have cost me $1200 CDN a yr (less than rip's on his beemie)
2 at fault accidents in 3 yrs has cost me bigtime. Prior to those two, i haven't had a ticket in over 10 years, and never made an accident claim in my life. (i'm 36 licensed since 16)
I've been charged with careless driving in the most recent accident. I have gone to one of those ex-cop places and they are fighting the case for me. My insurance broker said that so long as I haven't been convicted, in their eyes I have no tickets on my record (innocent til proven guilty)
So on the 91 corolla, with the bare minimum insurance coverage, no collision, no comprehensive (theft, vandalism) its costing me under $2400 a yr. Supposedly it will drop $4-500 (thats full coverage so less without) a yr. Maybe a big drop when one of the accidents falls out of the 6yr window.
SKurj
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Originally posted by Dnil
yes rip but does the BMW have enough room for your head? :)
I love that car...after two years, I still get anxious looking forward to driving it home...sad. ;)