Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Urchin on June 07, 2003, 01:04:56 PM
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I used to enjoy the hell out of playing this game. You could log in, find a fight quick, kill or be killed, repeat until you were done.
Now you log in, take off, if you find one enemy plane you'd better be in a 262 to run him down in, cause he sure as hell ain't fighting. If you can find two or three enemy planes, you might be able to get some sort of 'fight', as long as they are all above you. If they are co-alt or lower typically they'll make a couple half-assed passes and run.
So what happened? It isn't limited to one country... just about everyone flies like a sissy. The only GOOD fight I had today was me in a spit against 5 rooks. It is a little pathetic when the only time anyone will do anything other than bore and zoooooooooom is when they have a 5 to 1 numbers advantage, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that will fight with less than that.
I'm flying all by my lonesome about 5 thousand feet below the rooks streaming in to orbit one of the knight bases... and I couldn't count the number of times one would dive, make a horrible halfassed pass, and then either run back to his ack, or keep going towards my base where all his friends are. Why? Are people really THAT bad? And whats more.... they must KNOW they are that bad, or they wouldn't be so whoopeeed scared. Furthermore... why the hell are you scared? It is a VIDEO GAME. You don't REALLY DIE. You can take off again as soon as you get shot down. And whats really really awful is... you might actually LEARN HOW TO FIGHT. I know, it's unknown and the unknown is scary, but trust me, it is a helluva lot more fun than 'fighting' like a perpetual motion machine.
It is disgusting, at least to me. The most commonly used offensive 'tactic' is dive, make a crappy pass, zoom. If target banks, just zoom, don't bother shooting. Run after 1 pass, 2 passes at most. And God forbid you actually attack an enemy plane that is lower than you. Want to know what you'll see? I can tell you, and I'll be right about 99.999999999% of the time. Split-S, haul bellybutton for ack. Don't turn around until you've flown through some friendly ack, no matter how far away it is.
To all you bore and zoom sissys out there.... if you absolutely refuse to learn how to fight, do me a favor. LEARN HOW TO SHOOT. That way I won't have to sit and suffer through 18,000 half-assed bore and zoom passes.
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Amen brotha.........
Bore n ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ reigns supreme.
Folks rather fly into the ground then be shot down be another player.
I dont think they are afraid of "death" because if you pick anyone of them and check their stats death visits them often. Its the "You have been killed by XXX" that gets them. You need to be in d9s g10s p51s and el gay 7s and at times 262s or 163s to run um down. This is especially true on infinity and pizza.
Many dont even attempt anything resembling a2a. There whole focus is the land grab where they feel "usefull". Die by ground is more preferrable then death by Urchin.
Half assed aerail strafing pass then run like hell until and come back hoping to catch the guy asleep.
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sorry to hijack but what's the name of that song in your sig urchin?
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i agree totally urchin, its always bore-n-zoom run90's and runstangs.
so i fly la7 to run their arses down.
Today, a p51 went noe to our base, popped up to about 5k, saw me taking off so ran all the way home, then crashed on finals. Seems odd to me how some dweebs pay to play a game and not fight.
I think the reason they never furball is because they suck at it and cant do anything else but bnz.
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Urchin there is perfectly good explaination for this..
And I for one am going to pull up a lawn chair and pop a cold one because the reasons should be quite entertaining.
See, you have it all wrong, and they will tell you why..
Here, have a cheap beer.
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Im currently taking the month off from AH as the boredom and annoyance factor outweighed the fun at the time. I was in a H2H room other night, specifically Ikes peashooter setup that was a blast and AH like it used to feel.
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Yeah, theres plenty of good fights in the MA.....just the other day I BnZed a 190...missed and ran away...but,
I got lost, was tryin to find my way home and the 190 BnZed me......and missed, so I chased him home where a spit was waitin...so I ran home. After crashing on approach (no where near the runway) I upped again...at which point I got BnZed by a pony.
So, I logged off and went to the TA, where I could fly around without all the distractions. :p
Oh and when I finally came back, I did a milk run on a ammo factory. was great fun! :D
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I could never understand whiners that don't just quit. Seriously. ;)
:D
"Someone once told me all these planes fly differently. Another guy told me all the pilots fly differently. They can't both be right!"
*chuckle*
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
Yeah, theres plenty of good fights in the MA.....just the other day I BnZed a 190...missed and ran away...but,
I got lost, was tryin to find my way home and the 190 BnZed me......and missed, so I chased him home where a spit was waitin...so I ran home. After crashing on approach (no where near the runway) I upped again...at which point I got BnZed by a pony.
So, I logged off and went to the TA, where I could fly around without all the distractions. :p
Oh and when I finally came back, I did a milk run on a ammo factory. was great fun! :D
what a touching story, glad it had a happy ending..
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Im not sure I completely understand this whine. Are those that fly planes that don't turn on a dime expected to turnfight with Spits and such? Is it no longer acceptable to extend out of range if you do not have the advantage and would end up dead? Should we all just park on the runways and let others kill us so we are not called boring? If I am diving on an enemy, am I now required to bleed of all my E so that I can be a sitting duck, and not to extend out of range and make another pass?
There certainly are many who cannot dive in with enough control of their E to push the advantage immediatly...but I hardly think this is cause to complain.
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Originally posted by ALF
If I am diving on an enemy, am I now required to bleed of all my E so that I can be a sitting duck, and not to extend out of range and make another pass?
by "extend out of range" you mean run 20 miles back to your own base acks?
and arlo... i don't understand why the clueless want to remain clueless.
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alf you sound like another guy who doesnt really know what energy fighting is. Its not about high speed dives from alt then running a sector away before turning back. You can fight from an advantage hold energy and still be aggressive without just running.
Besides you are confusing what Urchin is saying altogether. Pure running is not in any way fighting. Urchin is saying that in his recent experience that folk avoid the "fight" all together.
Boom and Zoom is included in energy fighting but even so theres many different ways to execute "BnZ" that dont include just running. Urchin is a decent tutor and I am sure he can help teach folks whats what. Being aggressive and fighting doesnt mean turn fighting a spit 5 in a jug at 2k.
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Originally posted by Shane
by "extend out of range" you mean run 20 miles back to your own base acks?
and arlo... i don't understand why the clueless want to remain clueless.
What part of the word "whining" confuses you? :D
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If you noticed there are alot of names online that one has never seen before. The flood of truly new players is amazing. They dont chk 6. If you ask for help they wont come help. I had a yak spit and n1k on me last night asked for help they flew past me to vulch the zeke that was upping. Needless to say my feelings were hurt. So now I look for even dar bar. Hope that its some vets. up a spit V. climb. bnz in my spit V. then turn fight. then try to make it home with 5 bad guys on my 6. All this time i expect help from no one and will only help those that i know will help me.
It aint like it use to be and ive only been here since oct 2002.
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Everytime I saw you in trouble I came running to you as fast as I could. Of course, you were on the other side. ;)
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Pizza for a week isn't helping either.....
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OK, I'll admit that I run. But this is deliberate. One of my favoured rides at the moment is the C205 (another is the tiffie). I'll up and join a furball fine but if I'm on my way to join a field cap or whatever, I'm often behind the rest, and sometimes the defenders kill most of the rest before I get there. Now a C205 against 6+ other aircraft isn't going to be fun, let alone fair. So I head for home.
The other time I 'run' is when I lead a con back to others. Again, I'm usually in a C205 so the con thinks 'easy kill'. But a C205 + 2-3 others isn't so easy...
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Urchin, you forget a new favorite MA move.
I like to call it the "HO and GO".
Dive from 5k up, go for the face shot and when you miss miserably, run forever.
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I don't have anything against Bore and Zoom. A lot of people will never be good enough to 'fight' the way I like to with a lot of success. What irritates me is the halfass bore and zoom that is far to common in the MA. They dive, you bank, they get scared and run away. I've been in 'fights' against 3 or 4 enemies where I never had to pull more than 1.5G to evade their 'attacks'. I suppose it could be 'fun' for them, but it is boring as hell for me.
I don't know if people are just chicken**** or if they'd like to fight but they don't know how to. All I know is that even the Bore and Zoomers are taking cowardice to all new heights. Combined with the gameplay which has gotten quite stale over the two years I've been playing, and the fact that 4 planes make up about 75% of the airborne population, it is almost like the straw that breaks the camels back.
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Furious adds:
Urchin, you forget a new favorite MA move.
I like to call it the "HO and GO".
Dive from 5k up, go for the face shot and when you miss miserably, run forever.
Followed by the "chase-n-bawl."
Try this:
1: Don't chase
2: Don't bawl (you may need them typin' fingers)
I bet you'll see a runner turn around. ;)
(*Shrug* .. it's a theory) :D
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Yea that is the other thing that amazes me.... the same people that will break off if you bank more than 10 degrees will charge in guns a'blazin if you offer a head on. Stupid.
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Sorry to disappoint you arlo, but I don't do much chasing, and I never bawl.
I do laugh my bellybutton off at the cheeziness of it all at times though.
Month or so ago, I upped from a base under attack in a p51b with only 25% fuel. I killed 3 mossies and some other plane I don't remember. I then gave chase to a higher d9 and he just kept running. I am down to 1/8 fuel left, so I chop throttle and head back to base. He loops over and cames screaming back in on my 6. I let him get to d1.5, max throttle, barrel roll and am on his 6. He runs again, so I again chop throttle and give him my six. Did this 3 more times and each time he lost the advatange and ran. I then run out of fuel and had to ditch.
Then over Ch1, this tool starts in on how he 0wn3d this 51 that had to intentionally disco to save his ass. I hadn't laughed that hard in a long time.
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Originally posted by Pooh21
Im currently taking the month off from AH as the boredom and annoyance factor outweighed the fun at the time. I was in a H2H room other night, specifically Ikes peashooter setup that was a blast and AH like it used to feel.
Been "away" for like 2 months now, logged in maybe 5 hours both tours.. Boredom was probebly the biggest factor for me..
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Urchin u have a valid point here but what annoys me much moer is that the elite rooks now fly like the bishes. A few tours before rooks had great sticks and i had great respekt for this "country". Now all my respekt has gone. I only see Lala and NIki dweebs - I dont want to say that the knights are better.
Maybe its cause there are so many new players so I stay calm and dont whine about how they fly but sometimes I have to admit I'm wishing that a few planes get perked.
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Originally posted by Furious
I do laugh my bellybutton off at the cheeziness of it all at times though.
Oh .. you and me too. Doesn't disappoint me in the least (though I'm not sure how it could either way). :D
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Originally posted by Arlo
What part of the word "whining" confuses you? :D
the ng part... once i took that off, you whini like a slobberdonkey.
:D
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closer fields will be a cure and allow for choice for every type of fight. I understand the quick fix thing... I am not some kid that spends 6 hours or longer at a stretch at this.. I want to have a good fur.
I have decided to fly every fighter this tour till I land/ditch a kill.. I am trying to maintain 5 or more kills per hour and never go above 6k AGL... I have not found one plane that I can't do this with if the fight is good and action filled.... if the fields were closer I would have a lot of choice... I am up to the "p" planes.. even the wussy FW's can get kills on the deck turning if the fight is good and large.
lazs
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*chuckle*
Shane .... you are probably one of the best flyers/criers in AH. Keep up the good work. :D
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anecdotes like Furious' are not new, in fact I started doing the same thing as only guarantee for something else than 0 IQ bnz a long while ago. It came here with the stupidity of the masses and it's here to stay. Even the good players can be seen to have forgotten how to play without dweebiness because of all the BS dweeby fights they've aclimatized to.
epic dogfighting is a lost art, and just like a lot of other things (at random: keeping in touch), nobody gives a **** what, why or how it is/was.
They need to grab a good loyalty in the right part of the customer base, and **** off the rest of the useless mass, or give them their own area with AI drones to shoot at and run from, they'd see no difference.
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Originally posted by moot
They need to grab a good loyalty in the right part of the customer base, and **** off the rest of the useless mass, or give them their own area with AI drones to shoot at and run from, they'd see no difference.
Hmmm ... "right part" of the customer base ... good loyalty. Versus a large customer base of happy players who don't whine about every little thing (well, most of em). Yeah ... a winning combo that I'm sure HTC will agree with.
I wonder if the influx of "stupidity" is worse that some of the stupidity that was already here? :D
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I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.
Booming and Zooming is a tactic. Got it??
As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
Pronunciation: 'tak-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikE, from feminine of taktikos
Date: 1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat
BnZ tactics are used in planes and by pilots that fly planes that either don't turn well or don't maintain "E" well in a turn.
It is simple. Know your ride and fly your ride the way you want to. Use of GOOD tactics = landed Kills.
There are several arcade versions of this SIMM. "QuakeBirds" so to speak. You may want to try one on for size. See if it fits!
Regards,
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I'm sorry your targets won't cooperate with you. Really.
Maybe they've heard of your magnificence. I know you scare the pee right out of me, and I run away from all planes just in case one of them might be you.
You are one scary dude. I'm losing bladder control, right now.
See you in tank town,
shubie
P.S. Quit whining. It's unbecoming in a killer monster like you.
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I don't think its harder to get kills it just may be that they're gonna be streakier now.
I've been off for a month, came up last night and upped from a badly capped base to start knocking the rust off. Got vulched a few times, but once I got wheels up I was surprised how timid things went. Half hearted gun passes and long long extends. There are definitely some new players who are more cagey than confident -- its not just pure e-fighter guys. I had nikis extending to friends rather than just go 1v1. So it was slower going than maybe it should have been...but eventually that type of gutlessness works against you too. Later that night I dropped in on a strikegroup of some sort, picked up 5scalps real quick -- even tho I came in higher E I stuck around for a good amount of time but everyone went defensive and stayed that way until dead. ymmv
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Originally posted by dracon
I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.
As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat
Regards,
accomplishing what end? boring the other guy to death?
i'd hardly call the way a typical dweeb does bnz "combat."
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Hey Urchin, I'm one of Shane's brats. He took me to the DA and educated me. I fly a LaLa only so I have enough speed to get alt, get distance, and get back into the fite before everyone runs away.:confused:
I find because of my LA7 I get alot of attention from higer alt folks. So I troll for suckers. I even troll so others have someone to pounce on. So if you want I fly for Knights. Come up, follow me around and I'll troll for fites for ya. People just fixate on LA7's and do the darndest things to kill them. :D
-bustr-
----Shane kicked my arse, then explained how he kicked my arse, then showed me my mistakes and kicked my arse with my own mistakes. I hope I get good enough to kick his arse back some day. My arse don't fit my seat very well now....OWWWWCHHHH----:)
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what a touching story, glad it had a happy ending..
was a joke son...humor, ya know......ah, nevermind :p
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Originally posted by ALF
Im not sure I completely understand this whine. Are those that fly planes that don't turn on a dime expected to turnfight with Spits and such? Is it no longer acceptable to extend out of range if you do not have the advantage and would end up dead? Should we all just park on the runways and let others kill us so we are not called boring? If I am diving on an enemy, am I now required to bleed of all my E so that I can be a sitting duck, and not to extend out of range and make another pass?
There certainly are many who cannot dive in with enough control of their E to push the advantage immediatly...but I hardly think this is cause to complain.
I think Urchin is talking about the ones you encounter that don't show any type of desire to fight. These are the ones you see coalt in a 1v1 setting and they go into a panick dive to the nearest friendly horde or acks. If they are in a P-51 or FW190, they turn tail and extend until they either make it to their own base (where they then proceed to dive to ack cover) or make it to some friendlies and then turn around and engage once they've got help.
Then there's the disappearance of ACM in the arena, which is quickly becoming a lost art in the MA. While this behavior has been in all the online flights sims I've played, when I first started AH close to two years ago it wasn't as bad as it was now. To me, it seemed to increase after the competition was announced and has continued ever since even though the competition is over with. I guess dweeb habits are hard to break.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by dracon
I don't even know why I.....ahhh well.
Booming and Zooming is a tactic. Got it??
As per Websters:
Main Entry: 1tac·tic
Pronunciation: 'tak-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin tactica, from Greek taktikE, from feminine of taktikos
Date: 1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat
BnZ tactics are used in planes and by pilots that fly planes that either don't turn well or don't maintain "E" well in a turn.
It is simple. Know your ride and fly your ride the way you want to. Use of GOOD tactics = landed Kills.
There are several arcade versions of this SIMM. "QuakeBirds" so to speak. You may want to try one on for size. See if it fits!
Regards,
You don't seem to get it. No one is saying that BnZ isn't a valid tactic and definitely isn't what Urchin was pointing out. It's the people that don't fight at all or fight like a timid mouse that it's basically just a waste of everyone's time. Like someone pointed out, BnZ doesn't mean zoom three sectors away until you reach some friendly help and then come back.
IMO, another indicator that AH needs a formal training program. It might not get rid of the problem 100% but at least it will teach players new tactics and might even give them the necessary testical fortitude to actually fight instead of flee.
Ack-Ack
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Hell Ackie, most of the whinin' is exaggeration, at best. Trust me, when ya got a guy 1k behind ya, maxed out, despirately trying to catch ya and already typing about ya runnin' scared on "channel whine", then he ... doesn't really seem all there.
But hey, I've already got all sorts of players "seeing me do all sorts of mean, nasty things" all over the arena (sometimes at multiple places at the same time) so I'm certainly a candidate for the "group W bench."
"... and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the
other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on the other side, in parentheses, and capital letters, and in quotation marks, read the following words:
("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?") "
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Urchin,
i completly understand you outbursting frustration, and i agree 100%.
I wonder how this guys would play any kind of offline-flightsim.
But i am not shure if these kind of guys will find the way in to this forum for having a chance to read your post and think it over.
But you are talking about the most realistic part of this simulation...be shure,whatever you do in the game...there are always at least 75% stupids and ignorants around you.
Take Arlo for example.Before entering this forum, he puts on his blinders, and then he is well prepared for the hunt for the so called whiners.
This tour, he spend 20min in MA for one sortie.And much more time he spends just in this thread for giving useless comments.
So he shure knows what he is talking about.
Ecke
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Only specialty of yours is sleezy BS, of course you have to hijack this into a whine discussion. Urchin knows what i meant.
I was saying that for the same players who 1) can't fly for chit, 2) will surely get a kick out of shooting down drones, and 3) couldn't tell the difference between those and real players, except that they get their arse handed so quick by the real players, that it's hardly fun at all, certainly not worth paying 15$ for.
Because otherwise all that's left "happy" with the game is the big mass of undescriminating lemmings. they might as well be playing FA.
IMO, another indicator that AH needs a formal training program. It might not get rid of the problem 100% but at least it will teach players new tactics and might even give them the necessary testical fortitude to actually fight instead of flee.
look at that, AKAK says the same thing as me.
Hell Ackie, most of the whinin' is exaggeration, at best. Trust me, when ya got a guy 1k behind ya, maxed out, despirately trying to catch ya and already typing about ya runnin' scared on "channel whine", then he ... doesn't really seem all there.
what does that have to do with quality of dogfighting falling in the crapper since the lemmings tactics became the only one?
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It's the existence of free 51s, 190Ds, and La-7s, and Typhoons, I tell ya. :D
Before the D-9 and the La-7, only the P-51 folk ran away. Since the P-51 folk are either very good pilots or crap newbies who's been tricked into the 51 due to the hype around it, about half of those 51s you can catch and kill. People were never too keen for the Typhoon, and the G-10 is a castrated diver.
Now, there are D-9s and La-7s, planes which are as fast as the P-51 at the deck.
* Good news: we have variety
* Bad news: we now have variety of late war super planes with various people who choose to run, who previously - when there were no La-7s and D-9s - when they didn't use the D-9 or the La-7, were usually caught and shot down. At least the D-9 is horrible when it comes to a close-quarter maneuvering contest... The La-7..? *Feh !*
Frankly, under these circumstances where hoardes of Spits, N1K2s and La-7s and P-51s are around, anybody who isn't confident enough to try and slug out a 1vs1 if given a chance, will just choose to pick a 51 or an La-7. Hey, at least they don't lose anymore!
So, as more and more mediocre/new pilots start using La-7s and P-51s, veterans get frustrated - they see everybody running. So, they give up their loved planes and choose to also fly La-7s and P-51s. Quite understandable - you do a couple of merges, and the P-51 or the La-7 soars downwards and runs.. you think to yourself... "oooh, this friggin 109 of mine.. If I were only in a La-7.. oooohhh... :mad:"
So then what happens? Newbies and mediocre pilots like me stand even lower chance than they had, so they completely stick with the runner planes - either they choose a better plane and do at least a teensey weensey bit better, or remain a stupid mediocre pilot like me :D
...
And voila - a vicious circle is born!
.....
Seems like a whiney, funny analysis? Maybe, but it may hold even deeper truth than you'd realize.
When were the new planes introduced? When did these 'AH is not like it was before' complaints began? And the 'suicidal no-skill pilots' complaints? It roughly starts around version two, three versions ago - AH community suddenly grew twice its numbers, the La-7 and the Fw190D-9 was introduced together.
What about ACM complaints? If you're in a fast plane that runs away from all other planes except the same type, where's the motivation for the pilot to learn complicated maneuvers, when they can simply point nose down and run anytime?
Oh, since this method cannot be applied when the enemy flies the same super-speed plane as you... voila, there you have it. The birth of the massive numbers of people who choose to run if they meet a plane either higher than him, or meet a same plane 1vs1.
...
It's not something like as if a part of the human race who loves flight sim games suddenly mutated their DNA cells into 'runner mode'. People are always as they used to be.
Then, the dynamics of change lies within the change of the game - available plane sets, in particular.
..
The solution lies in moving the arena environment into an era before this extreme emphasis on speed was born - an era where not every speed queen also carried hoardes of ordnance, so they can ignore/pass the interceptors and go auger straight at the field(hello? Typhies and 51s, sound familiar?)
*Deliberate Hijack*
Support my new perk agenda! Follow the sig link! :D
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AKAK,
Sometime let me get my landing grear up and I'll try some of that ACM stuff with ya...
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Then there's the disappearance of ACM in the arena, which is quickly becoming a lost art in the MA. While this behavior has been in all the online flights sims I've played, when I first started AH close to two years ago it wasn't as bad as it was now. To me, it seemed to increase after the competition was announced and has continued ever since even though the competition is over with. I guess dweeb habits are hard to break.
Ack-Ack
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It has become pretty bad, and it isnt old style agressive e-fifghting. Literally they extend 4-6k and then try some sort of lame HO and they zoom right up if you dont stay still in one of their "attack" dives. The last time I flew in the MA I was litterly shocked when this Yak9U actually followed my G10 evasives for two whole rolling scissors!!
Anyway I have taken to flying A20s, Il2s and SBD-5s as fighters in order to make them less afraid - but an incredible number still choose to run from these light bombers after only a few lazy passes - its really quite sad. Perhaps I should fly the Kate as I hear it has no forward armament, but ten again they could always decide to run away from the single 7.7mm tailgun...
I'm guessing its all the newbs and strategy langrab types who dont care about airlaine fighting....
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HTC and a misguided part of the comunity has finally made the MA feel like a real war. Long periods of boredom between a few short moments of intense action. The strat war has taken over the MA and I blame it and all its followers for this unfourtunate turn in gameplay. A few 30k ponies screaming in at 400 mph, impossible to intercept without a 262 or 163, porking fuel and then either augering or running. Then the horde falls upon the helpless airfield and its defenders like a swarm of locusts.
I've been getting a lot more frustration rather than fun from this game the last couple of months. I'm seriously considering quitting, if not for the fact that this game was a realy good game, and I'm hoping it will get better again, but I'm loosing faith day by day.
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OK ack-ack,
I think I do get it. Once I Boom I can then Zoom duh! Unless of course I have picked up a "wag" (tail). I will now extend (run) as far as needed to: lose him, make him become disinterested, BORED, or anything else that removes him from my "6". I now Zoom to pickup "Alt" and "E" and re-engage the fight on MY terms.
IMHO Urchins post is no more than a disguised whine against BnZers.
I don't fly a lot but I'm up most nights for an hour +. I don't always fly the Pony. I like to do what I call Spit-Balling. FurBalling in a Spit, or Field Defense Mode. I like JABO, Cv Ops, C47 Ops, etc, etc. Point is I just don't see what Urchin sees. I find plenty of fights. I lose more than I win. Hehehehe I know WHAT to Do I just don't always Do it!
Oh well, here, have a cool URL: http://www.refdesk.com
CYAs,
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when I find myself chasing planes from below in a jug or p-38, I know no good fight will come out of it. When I give them my tail and still they won't attack I know it's hopless.
Every new player goes through this phase in which he just want to survive the fight (after being shot down again and again and again and...) so they tend to fly lalas, 190s, p51s and run away at the first sign of trouble. It's a normal phase - been there, tried that. It was ALWAYS like that (over my 2 years).
The "influx" of new players and some "outflux" of veterens means a bigger fraction of the population is in the "running" phase.
I don't like it, It's a shame, it's not good, it's natural.
we're gonna have to live with it or leave.
Bozon
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
was a joke son...humor, ya know......ah, nevermind :p
i noticed, i was joking too ;)
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hopefully ah2 will allow HTC to return AH:Classic to exactly that -- its traditional lineage. Bottom line is this lynchpins of this genre with titles like Air Warrior, Warbirds, and Aces High, didnt grow on the revenue of folks who were addicted to capturing territory, and arenas didnt use to be designed with the landgrab as the primary concern.
In all this mmog madness there still remains nothing as exciting and compelling as a good dogfight -- the fact that even in the crowded arenas we have today guys can see a plane in mid-manuever and just know "that's so and so" is pretty cool.
It's not a lost art yet -- though we're 1 "fighters don't need guns anymore" thread away from eerily parroting the real world ;)
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Dracon Urchin isnt talking about BnZ. There's no need for it to be bnz to be dweebish and anti-dogfight-gameplay.
If they did knew how to BnZ, Urchin would say so, give an appreciation of some kind. It certainly doesnt sound like well made on-offs of proper BnZ of a G10 or P38 or even well made loose deuce for example. Where you stay in guns range of the bogie but out of his killshot angles using superior plane power and or energy, that's proper E management and use. And not: making a really bad pass, egressing for FIVE miles, then coming back way too fast and at wrong angle and missing again, ad nauseum.
Total absence of unexpected figures or hidden E. Don't even think about not considering the dogfight and opponent won until you've countered and won each and every tactical attempt he makes.
To kill, you don't need to wait for the guy to become bored and disengage unless you aren't able to win the fight while he is.
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kweasa has got it I think. the arena is a combo of early, mid and late war planes. This causes the major part of the problem. the different era planes require different tactics... each era is viewed as dweeby by the other since they are opossite. We need "areas' within the arena for early, mid and late war.
The next part is the fact that there is a huge influx uf new players... New players are good but... a lot of them fear virtual death and humiliation.. some may have "been good' in another sim and now are afraid to get killed in the learning curve so they fall back on the safest tactics. course... they won't ever learn much that way... the other new guys are.... new.. they are just following what they percieve as the way things work. some of the older players that never were any good at AC champion timid gangvbanging too.
the last and most important is... the new huge maps and field capture... Spread out the action and you not only dilute it but exagerate the problems outlined in the first two paragraphs. Fields are too far apart and there aren't enough/tough enough CV's... put the fields about 10% closer and everyone will have a good fight... In pizza the fields can be allmst 2 sectors away! add the fact that they mayu be useless because of gamey fuel porking.... well... loook at the mess.
lazs
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Since when in hades is making sure you stay in your opponent's gun range at all times part of "proper e management and use?" That's bout as goofy as anything you could "teach" someone. And 1 to 2k (or hell, even 3k) out from you isn't five miles. And yeah, there's plenty of whiners confusin' the two. Which more than likely accounts for the "sudden increase" in players who "don't wanna fight." :rolleyes:
A whine is a whine is a whine. It's easy to identitfy. They all break down to "You didn't let me kill you, no fair." :D
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As for urchin... He fights all types of fights. he will take on two or three from a disadvantage and probly kick their gangbangin butts. I flew with him last night in the gawdawful pizza map or "the long flight to nothing" map.. we flew p40's b fo rme e for him... we had to fly allmost 2 sectors to find a fight.. If i crippled a plane with the b, 4 kill starved teammates would dive in front of me to "finish him off and save me in case he turned around"
All the fights these daays are of two types... defend against gangbangers from your field or... fly all the way to their field to gangbang or be all by yourself against 20 "defenders"
The maw (not to single them out) seemed to define the new gameplay... have at least 5 attackers for every toolshed that needed to be knocked down. accidentaly flying with them was a total waste of time... I'm sure they had fun and felt like they accomplished something but for me it was "a long flight to nothing".
lazs
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Yep,
It's Sunday morning with 184 in the MA. I just watched our illustrious Urchin land a 6 kill and 3 kill sortie in less than an hour.
He musta found something to fight.
_ _
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The main reason for this ongoing problem is a lack of a formalized training problem ala' WB.
Simple as that. The new guy has no place to go to learn his craft. The trainers that we do have here are few and have no real place to work. To suggest the TA in it's present form is a training arena is silly.
The company has it's reasons. Thats obvious. What they are, I don't know.
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Originally posted by Furball
i noticed, i was joking too ;)
Oh...ok so, I'm a bit dense at times. :)
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Originally posted by nopoop
The main reason for this ongoing problem is a lack of a formalized training problem ala' WB.
Simple as that. The new guy has no place to go to learn his craft.
Formal training...that would be cool, but, IMO, squads should do that to a certain degree. I know not everyone is in a squad, and that squads dont always have time or even the personnel to do this, but it was kinda what i was hoping for when i joined MAW. There is always discussion of "training nights", but I have yet to make it to one (or anyone else, that I have noticed), time is hard to find for that stuff, and I am not laying blame there, its as much my fault as it is my squadies (more mine actually).
Now I have read the stuff at netaces and try to use it, but I'm never sure if I am doing any of it right, and still dont know names for various moves. My evasives are fair (sometimes) but my shooting bites! ;) Once I get on a guys six, its over....he's got me right where he wants me. :D
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If running is the only way to survive then so be it - no matter wether this is a result of a bad situation or just lack of experience.
nopoop is right. WB has a place where you can go and meet a trainer at predefined hours. In AH the only way to get in contact is an email address (AFAIK, but maybe there's something hidden somewhere, but that wont be found by most new players anyway).
In WB you can identify a trainer by his callsign. They teach you the basics and more. In AH they dish out 10 bucks for someone who might not have been there for longer than one month but answers the most questions like "how do i raise my gear" or "how do i open my chute".
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And one sticks out in my mind. The planeset does seem to dictate tactics. Of course, that is like the real world.
BUT, that makes me reconsider the "rotating planeset" idea I have seen on a couple of other posts. Rotate the MA planeset with the maps, and see what happens...
It might be interesting. For everybody.
But please don't call me a no-cojones coward when I leave a fight I am at a serious disadvantage in. On the one hand, typical "furballer" attitude is that the newbies are all suicide dweebs. Speaking out of the other side of their mouth, they say that newbies trying to survive are cowards.
Which one is it?:p
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You guys might wanna check the stats of those saying "running" is allthey can do. The guy here with the loudest mouth average 2 kills per hour in the ct and had a kd of of .5.
I bet if check the others they have the same.
Its one thing to prefer a style of fighting that best suits your skill level but when you look at the stats and see that your style hasnt helped ya 1 bit you wonder why someone would stick with it.
Because it comes down to the fact that some folks are just afraid to be killed be another player. They would rather fly into the ground chasing those pesky fuel tanks or hangers. I mean they are getting killed some how. With kills per hour below 3 or 4 they avoid almost all fights.
dracon you havent gotta clue. Energy fighting and BnZ dont mean half assed aerial strafing pass then run 2 sectors to friends or ack. The more you type away the more obvious it is that you are clueless. Urchin can show ya if ya ask.
Dracon kd .4 kills per hour 2
Blknit KD .6 kills per hour 3
Tardlo CT KD .3 kills per hour 2
Kill per hour is the best way to get and idea of someones fighting style. Kills per hour can be affected by the plane you fly. Flying slower planes can mean it takes longer to get to the fight.
Urchin has 12 kills per hour main.
I havent flown in the main in months but my last 2 ct kill per death are around 10 per hour.
My main average was usually between 5 - 8 kills per hour which is average overall.
YMMV
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Originally posted by Arlo
Since when in hades is making sure you stay in your opponent's gun range at all times part of "proper e management and use?" That's bout as goofy as anything you could "teach" someone. And 1 to 2k (or hell, even 3k) out from you isn't five miles. And yeah, there's plenty of whiners confusin' the two. Which more than likely accounts for the "sudden increase" in players who "don't wanna fight." :rolleyes:
A whine is a whine is a whine. It's easy to identitfy. They all break down to "You didn't let me kill you, no fair." :D
arlo, your "observations" would carry a little more weight if you spent more than 20 mins in the MA each month for the past 2 months and a mere 16-20 hrs in the two months before that.
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Wow ... a stat whine.
"You guys can't call me a whiner! Your stats aren't good enough!"
rofl :D
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Originally posted by Shane
arlo, your "observations" would carry a little more weight if you spent more than 20 mins in the MA each month for the past 2 months and a mere 16-20 hrs in the two months before that.
Yeah ... you don't come to whine in the CT as much as you used to. Probably because I never pass up an opportunity to bust yer balls about it when you do. But, you needn't fear. There are others willing to take your place. :D
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Blknit KD .6 kills per hour 3
yep, guess what, I suck. Its not that I am really avoiding fights, I just dont go into heavy furballs. Its hard to rack up kills when yer dead.
I can of course improve my K/D ratio but then my kills per hour would be even less.
Now, to be honest I have run away...usually because I am low of fuel or ammo and facing a horde (or potential horde). I'll try mixing it up if I am not completely outnumbered (say more than 3 to 1). I also will make a jabo run, but less these days than I used to. I am not very good, but I wonder why this matters, or why I was included.....was I just on the worst 3 list? I certainly have not been mouthing off. (except with the joke at the beginning)
Now, I understand that certain folks feel a certain superiority over others because they can do things in this game that I cannot even fathom. I will never understand the sneering mindset of those who look at my piss poor stats and then consider me to be somehow a lesser person. And to think, I used to have some respect for you..... OK I still do :p
BTW how good would your stats be if you didn't have me to shoot down regularly.:)
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Originally posted by Gixer
AKAK,
Sometime let me get my landing grear up and I'll try some of that ACM stuff with ya...
If I didn't let you raise your flaps, what makes you think I'm going to let you raise the gears so you can do that fancy boy ACM thinga-mijigy?
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by dracon
OK ack-ack,
I think I do get it. Once I Boom I can then Zoom duh! Unless of course I have picked up a "wag" (tail). I will now extend (run) as far as needed to: lose him, make him become disinterested, BORED, or anything else that removes him from my "6". I now Zoom to pickup "Alt" and "E" and re-engage the fight on MY terms.
IMHO Urchins post is no more than a disguised whine against BnZers.
I don't fly a lot but I'm up most nights for an hour +. I don't always fly the Pony. I like to do what I call Spit-Balling. FurBalling in a Spit, or Field Defense Mode. I like JABO, Cv Ops, C47 Ops, etc, etc. Point is I just don't see what Urchin sees. I find plenty of fights. I lose more than I win. Hehehehe I know WHAT to Do I just don't always Do it!
Oh well, here, have a cool URL: http://www.refdesk.com
CYAs,
Don't confuse your timid mouse like BnZ tactics with any sort of real ones. BnZ is not about making one pass and then running away from danger like a sheep running away from JOC. BnZ is not a passive sort of attack, it's an aggressive tactic when done correctly. All you are doing when you run is giving the enemy a chance to even things out so when you feel brave enough to make another pass on him, the enemy has equalized things or at the least put him self in a spot where he's not at that much of a disadvantage.
Ack-Ack
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yep, guess what, I suck. Its not that I am really avoiding fights, I just dont go into heavy furballs. Its hard to rack up kills when yer dead.
I can of course improve my K/D ratio but then my kills per hour would be even less.
Now, to be honest I have run away...usually because I am low of fuel or ammo and facing a horde (or potential horde). I'll try mixing it up if I am not completely outnumbered (say more than 3 to 1). I also will make a jabo run, but less these days than I used to. I am not very good, but I wonder why this matters, or why I was included.....was I just on the worst 3 list? I certainly have not been mouthing off. (except with the joke at the beginning)
Now, I understand that certain folks feel a certain superiority over others because they can do things in this game that I cannot even fathom. I will never understand the sneering mindset of those who look at my piss poor stats and then consider me to be somehow a lesser person. And to think, I used to have some respect for you..... OK I still do
BTW how good would your stats be if you didn't have me to shoot down regularly.
Dont missunderstand my point. I dont care about rank or stats or any of that as a show of "skillz". I am not that good myself.
My point was that some people like the action more then anything else. When Urchin pointed out that theres runners some folks put a defense that he just wants evreyone to turn fight and that some folks were "smart" for flying that way. Well if we look at stats just as a way to get an idea of fighting style it would seem that those arguing against Urchins point are some of those that "run". And on top of that running hasnt helped them :p
I dont think anyone really cares how anyone else flies. Except when it impacts their fun level. For some folks the endless running is really boring and they see that this has changed since early AH. For some folks the endless furball, get killed, re-up, is boring. There are extremes on both ends. What Urchin mentioned is flying lo in a larger number of enemy and the best he got was a half assed gun pass and a 2 sector "extend".
If you have fun go for it. But I think the general lack of aggression overall makes for a boring arena. You can fight in any fashion thats comfortable to you. The idea that theres only 2 ways to fly is just wrong. Theres more then Bore and ZZZZZZZZZZ and T'n'B.
look at tardlo he will make as much noise as he can to justify his lameness.
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Originally posted by lazs2
kweasa has got it I think. the arena is a combo of early, mid and late war planes. This causes the major part of the problem. the different era planes require different tactics... each era is viewed as dweeby by the other since they are opossite. We need "areas' within the arena for early, mid and late war.
The next part is the fact that there is a huge influx uf new players... New players are good but... a lot of them fear virtual death and humiliation.. some may have "been good' in another sim and now are afraid to get killed in the learning curve so they fall back on the safest tactics. course... they won't ever learn much that way... the other new guys are.... new.. they are just following what they percieve as the way things work. some of the older players that never were any good at AC champion timid gangvbanging too.
the last and most important is... the new huge maps and field capture... Spread out the action and you not only dilute it but exagerate the problems outlined in the first two paragraphs. Fields are too far apart and there aren't enough/tough enough CV's... put the fields about 10% closer and everyone will have a good fight... In pizza the fields can be allmst 2 sectors away! add the fact that they mayu be useless because of gamey fuel porking.... well... loook at the mess.
lazs
Planes have nothing to do with it since they only do what the pilot says. I've seen this type of behavior from people flying all sorts of planes. Last night I had a P-47D-11 and then a Zeke try to do the same thing, with an advantage in altitude, they both tried to BnZ and when their first pass failed they extended away from the fight. All it did was buy them a few more minutes of flying but had they been more aggressive I would have been toast. After the kills and I saw who they were, I was surprised to see that they were "vets" with more time in AH then I do.
Like I've said before, to me it's more indicative of a lack of any formal training program than a problem with any one plane.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
Formal training...that would be cool, but, IMO, squads should do that to a certain degree. I know not everyone is in a squad, and that squads dont always have time or even the personnel to do this, but it was kinda what i was hoping for when i joined MAW. There is always discussion of "training nights", but I have yet to make it to one (or anyone else, that I have noticed), time is hard to find for that stuff, and I am not laying blame there, its as much my fault as it is my squadies (more mine actually).
You are right as well, some of the blame has to fall on some of the squads to a certain degree. One of the reasons why the 479th makes such a great squadron is that we do take the time to train those squadron that need the help and even have squadron training officers. I've noticed that a lot of the older squadrons do this as well, usually the ones with either an AW or WB backround.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by rshubert
But please don't call me a no-cojones coward when I leave a fight I am at a serious disadvantage in. On the one hand, typical "furballer" attitude is that the newbies are all suicide dweebs. Speaking out of the other side of their mouth, they say that newbies trying to survive are cowards.
Which one is it?:p
No one is talking about pilots that find themselves at a disadvantage, it's the ones you find either at an equal state as you are at an advantage over you that we're talking about.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Batz
Dont missunderstand my point. I dont care about rank or stats or any of that as a show of "skillz".
Yeah ... he's just usin' `em to "prove a point." [/size] ;)
look at tardlo he will make as much noise as he can to justify his lameness.
(Shakes head) *chuckle*
Yeah .. that's what I'm doin'. :rolleyes: .... ya whiner!
"Sniffle! I'm bored and you guys don't fly the way I want you to so I'm gonna cry for ten minutes on ch1 then log because I think you care. And tommorrow night I'm gonna do it again you lamerz!"
Hey .... here's a hug and a hanky if it'll make you feel better about lil `ol me and everyone "like me." Ya whiner. :D
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
No one is talking about pilots that find themselves at a disadvantage, it's the ones you find either at an equal state as you are at an advantage over you that we're talking about.
Ack-Ack
I understand the claim. And yes, it happens. But there's whiners that'll claim it happens when it actually is a case of disengaging from a disadvantaged state or RTBing damaged or wounded just for an excuse to whine. Hell, there really isn't reason to whine even when it's a case as you stated. Woe-tan can't figure that out ... although I still enjoy hammering it at his forehead. ;)
Whining is just whining.
"No use whining `bout it. No complaints." :D
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Batz, everyone knows your mathematical capabilites.
Originally posted by Batz
Its one thing to prefer a style of fighting that best suits your skill level but when you look at the stats and see that your style hasnt helped ya 1 bit you wonder why someone would stick with it.
If you notice that you're getting killed every time you get into a fight without a huge advantage, why not change tactics and just run away? Did you compare the stats of the same player - one tour running and on another tour staying to die? You can't, because the data isn't there. Thus your point is useless.
Because it comes down to the fact that some folks are just afraid to be killed be another player. They would rather fly into the ground chasing those pesky fuel tanks or hangers. I mean they are getting killed some how.
Even if you fly into buildings or even the ground most times another player gets kill credit anyhow. Stating players are afraid to die but kill themselves is contradiction large enough not to explain running.
Hint: The fun in this game comes from blowing stuff up, no matter if it's a2a, a2g or whatever. Therefore hitting buildings can be more fun than beeing shot down a2a.
Kill per hour is the best way to get and idea of someones fighting style.
K/hour is a good way to get an idea of how many kills someone gets per hour. Nothing more.
Kills per hour does not say anything about the number of enemy aircraft per hour you fight with (without running). For that you need to add the number of deaths per hour. For example someone with 3 kills per hour and a K/D of .5 would die 6 times per hour and see a total of 9 fights/hour.
Kills per hour can be affected by the plane you fly. Flying slower planes can mean it takes longer to get to the fight.
That's actually correct. But it's effect isn't nearly as big as the effect of the time required to get the fight if instead of getting 12 kills per hour beeing killed 12 times per hour - wich each requires a new way to the fight.
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LOL. I've tried it all...my stats still look the same :(
Sorry, Batz, been a bit down on myself for not improving, and guess i took it wrong. I actually seem to be getting worse!:eek:
I get annoyed for letting someone shoot me down, then I do even worse, start pressing to get e kill no matter what....and die again, being stupid.
I have been there, chasing and being chased.
Ya know though, a possible point on this:
I tend to try flying where there are not so many of my countrymen, somewhere that is getting some small enemy attention, but not being nailed by endless hordes of jabos. This is another reason for low kills per hour. Must be true for others too, as I tend to see the same folks on the "edges".
I tend to want improved K/D for myself, than kills per hour, but that would be good too, heh.
BTW are those stats for current tour? didn't realize they were that bad. ;) actually kills / hour are up a bit! K/D is terrible.
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You might not know, but there actually have to be players with a K/D < 1.0, otherwise noone would have a K/D > 1.0 either...
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well im sure once they all read this thread they'll stop flying like that and become pilots just like yourselves!
seriously though what is this going to achieve? It wont suddenly make people stop running or improve their ACM will it?
If you want to see less running why dont you all stop flying the late war models or get behind the request for more perking?
Simply complaining that people are doing things you dont like solves nothing.As far as im concerned anyone who flies LA7's who has already learned to fly and fight well are simply using it because they like to get loads of kills.They wont take on the challenge of flying a rarer aircraft like 205s or 109F4's etc.
Im not very impressed by a 3 year veteran flying the easiest aircraft in the game and to be honest i cant see what they get out of it.Its hardly challenging.If the majority of La7 flyers are newbies with a fear of fighting then Im playing a different game ;)
Ive seen more vets in p51ds and la7s lately than ever before. If the vets cant fly the old planes then why on earth should the newbies be the first to do it?
Urchin what do you fly most often?
and anyone who flies LA7's thats been in AH more than a year, why do you fly them?
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LOL. I've tried it all...my stats still look the same
Sorry, Batz, been a bit down on myself for not improving, and guess i took it wrong. I actually seem to be getting worse!
I get annoyed for letting someone shoot me down, then I do even worse, start pressing to get e kill no matter what....and die again, being stupid.
I have been there, chasing and being chased.
Ya know though, a possible point on this:
I tend to try flying where there are not so many of my countrymen, somewhere that is getting some small enemy attention, but not being nailed by endless hordes of jabos. This is another reason for low kills per hour. Must be true for others too, as I tend to see the same folks on the "edges".
I tend to want improved K/D for myself, than kills per hour, but that would be good too, heh.
BTW are those stats for current tour? didn't realize they were that bad. actually kills / hour are up a bit! K/D is terrible.
It was my mistake I should have made it clearer. As long as you are having fun. After all its just a game. I just happen to agree with Urchin that an arena of timid and non-aggressive pilots would be and is boring unless there is something else to keep the fun level up. Like in events where planning etc are important. Some just want the "fight".
Some folks point to strat and field capture as that "something else" in the main but building battling to me is even more boring the chasing folks around. After all they might turn around, a building no matter how crafty or cunning just cant put up a good fight. :)
Also what folks are talking about is the "fight" not the kill. Some of the best fights I have been in are ones where I didnt live.
ccvi read what I said, or atleast look at the stats correctly. After all everyone know you inability to pop up a proper rebuttal. :rolleyes:
Urchin gets 12 kills per hour and has a kd of about 4. I have seen his kd at 15. Kill per sortie at 2. All without running.
My averages (wotan) were a kd of 3 to 4 and a kill per hour of 5 to 8. There are many others who beat both.
A high kill per hour doesnt mean a lo kd or that you die every sortie. But so what if it does. As Urchin said this is a game and you dont really "die". As I pointed out those arguing against what Urchin said have kds below 1 and kills per hour around 2.
So before you question my stat reading abilities maybe you should work on your own. :p
Even if you fly into buildings or even the ground most times another player gets kill credit anyhow. Stating players are afraid to die but kill themselves is contradiction large enough not to explain running.
Hint: The fun in this game comes from blowing stuff up, no matter if it's a2a, a2g or whatever. Therefore hitting buildings can be more fun than beeing shot down a2a.
Theres no contradiction if you follow the arguement that folks would rather die by ground they be killed by a human in an out right fight. By flying into the ground they can rationalize the kill msg with " proxy kill". If they get whooped out right and end up being nothing more then a bullet catcher they havent "accomplished anything". Atleast by augering in they got "those pesky fuel tanks" and have "contributed", regardless of the kill msg.
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Originally posted by Arlo
Yeah ... you don't come to whine in the CT as much as you used to. Probably because I never pass up an opportunity to bust yer balls about it when you do. But, you needn't fear. There are others willing to take your place. :D
oh i'm there now, and you can't bust nothing exccept maybe a wet-fart.
i hear you're quite the whiner there too... as well as the CT forum.
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Originally posted by Shane
oh i'm there now, and you can't bust nothing exccept maybe a wet-fart.
i hear you're quite the whiner there too... as well as the CT forum.
Well ... with your nose stuck in my skidmark stained shorts you prolly hear and smell alot more than most do. Ya whiner! :D
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Originally posted by hazed-
Simply complaining that people are doing things you dont like solves nothing.As far as im concerned anyone who flies LA7's who has already learned to fly and fight well are simply using it because they like to get loads of kills.They wont take on the challenge of flying a rarer aircraft like 205s or 109F4's etc.
Im not very impressed by a 3 year veteran flying the easiest aircraft in the game and to be honest i cant see what they get out of it.
well, yeah hazed, you know i'm capable of sending you back to tower in just about anything. :D
as to why i fly the la7, i'll type this once again, reaaaaaalll slow-like:
t..o.. c...h...a...s...e... d...o...w...n... l...a...m...e... r...u...n...n...e...r...s... a...n...d... t...o... d...e...a...l... w...i...t...h... anklehumpingslobberdonkeyhord emonkeys!!!
if you have a problem with a tnb low and slow la7 on the deck in something, perhaps you need a little more TA time.
what about all the vets in spit5's? how come no one humps their ankles about it?
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Neh .... just the "vets" who cry all the damned time. Ya whiner! :D
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like it or not arlo, you're lumped into that category, as well.
:D
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Only because you have Peewee Herman's brain. Ya whiner!
"I know you are but what am I?"
"It took a bazillion of ya. LOL Waaaaa!"
"I killed you while scaling my stick. U sux. Waaaaaa!"
"Fly like me! Cry like me! Waaaaa!" :D
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He invents alot of things. :D
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batz is correct... the people defending the steamroller run awy style are awfull at the game.. thier style is not helping them a bit...They whould probly bite the bullet and learn how to fight rather than join "missuns" to fight over scraps or hide under their bunks.
I really get a little tired of the same guys telling me that I don't know how to find a fight when they get like 2 or 3 kills an hour and then claim that they "allways find a fight" when they want to... obviously... they have never wanted to find a fight or.. they wouldn't know a fight if it bit em on the butt.
I have tried to fly ever fighter this tour until I land a kill... I want to keep over a 6 kill per hour or so doing it and never go above 6k agl.. hard on the pizza map were every flight is a long flight to nowhere but I am up to the S's after about 6 hours or so of flying.
urchin flew the f6 and the p40e the night I was with him. we flew p40's and the good part was.... we attracted a bunch of these brave B&Z ers guess it was a coincidnece that they went after us huh? guess it was just bad luck that I got 2 and he got 4?
you won't get good hiding under the bunk or participating in gangbangs or running away... it is that simple.
lazs
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Whining helps too, I hear. No really. It makes everyone ashamed to have fun the way they want and, if nothing else, soothes the nerves. :D
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Originally posted by hazed-
If you want to see less running why dont you all stop flying the late war models or get behind the request for more perking?
Why is it always someone tries to some how introduce perking into an arguement that it has really nothing to do with it in the first place?
Perking planes won't solve anything because the plane isn't the problem, it's the person that flies that plane that is. People that don't fight or are too timid to fight aggressively will do it any plane because that's the only thing they know how to do. If you were to give them some training and teach them new ACM maneuver and tactics, that will go a long way in breaking the cycle. Calling for perking of certain planes is just a weak man's solution and doesn't do a thing to help the problem.
Ack-Ack
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actually arlo... as has been pointed out... your opinion is kinda worthless on the subject of how to play AH since you don't play. try playing it and then form an opinion.
but.. for the record... I am not so much complaining about how people play as how we are all forced to play by the setup we have.. fix the field distance and some of the gamier jabo/bomb issues and give people a choice of gameplay.
lazs
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What a bunch of ****in idiots
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Gawrsh, Mistuh Lazzie .... how many hours does ah gots ta play this heyar game befo' I be playin' this heyar game?
"No use whinin' bout it. No complaints."
"You hot sticks sure do cry alot for bein' hot sticks an' all." :D
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Why do they zoom and then run? Because focusing on one plane will leave you open to your opponents 50,000 other La7 comrades even if you do kill him. I can't remember one fight in the MA in the past year that hasnt ended in a 1v5/5v1 etc.. People simply dont want to be ganged. The game is setup to reward the path of least resistance.
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A couple of days ago i would have agreed with Urchin...but it's hard cause i've had soooo much fun in the last couple of days. I've been finding some really good furballs over the last couple of days.....it's been great.:) I've been being overly aggressive compared to how i fly normally (not that i fly timidly IMO) and been getting lots of kills. As a consequence i'm not landing many of my sorties (which i usually aim to do).
aah who am i kidding, i've prob just been lucky to get good fights this weekend. It seems a lot of people just wont engage if they don't have a huge alt adv on u. I flew the hurri I a bit last tour getting 30 or 40 kills but i just got sick of how people would fight me. I can take bnz because eventually they'll make a mistake and then i can kill em. But it seemed that cons would make a pass, mess it up and shoot by me, fly out of icon range, climb 5k, turn around start the whole thing again. :mad: The only thing worse is when u meet someone co-alt, even tho he must be going atleast 50mph faster than me in my slow bellybutton hurri he runs to friends/ack etc :mad: It's just so frustrating because he could easily kill me if he tried.....all i wanted was a fight.
So this tour i'm sticking to the spit IX.....mmmmm......spits.:)
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well gee arlo... I don't know how long it takes but my guess is that to form an opinion you would need to play a moderate amount.. as for being a "hot stick"... I have never claimed to be anything but mediocre at this.
and again... I don't care how anyone plays but I would like the game to be set up to accomadate all styles or as many as possible.. build the close fields and they will come. put a cv close to a field and you will get players. the gangbangers and the ones shivering under their bunks can continue to do so... Heck.. they might enjoy that... How would I know?
Give me and my ilk a place to fight and I don't care what the rest of you do. except to make fun of it of course.
lazs
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BTW, Boon'n runners are not a problem at all. They are like nonexistant planes. Every time I see a strato P38/51/47 I usually wait for the first attack to find out what kind of attaker it is: boon'n runner or boon'n zoomer. If the result is boom'n runner, I simply ignore it for the rest of the fight. If the result is boom'n zoomer, then we are in real problems.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and again... I don't care how anyone plays but I would like the game to be set up to accomadate all styles or as many as possible.. build the close fields and they will come. put a cv close to a field and you will get players. the gangbangers and the ones shivering under their bunks can continue to do so... Heck.. they might enjoy that... How would I know?
Give me and my ilk a place to fight and I don't care what the rest of you do. except to make fun of it of course.
lazs
you gotta admit it its not an unreasonable request. If you dont like furballing like laz you can simply not fly out of close bases.
Ack-Ack as for perking not being relevant to this discussion I'd simply point you to the ONLY perk aircraft that has once been a non perk and a major pain...the F4UC.
Perking it didnt remove it, it didnt stop anyone but a 2 weeker newbie from using it, It stopped the endless whines, it encouraged players to use the f4ud(or whatever aircraft they discovered they liked) instead , it basically placed a limit on people using it constantly without surviving.The dweebs had to find a new ride.
If 190d9 or la7 or p51d or N1K were say 4 perks you would have to get 3 or so kills before you die in order for it to be worth while.The 'masses' would decide its not as appealing as the next aircraft on the list which is perk free and performs similarly. Once they do this the arena 'typical engagement' changes.by the time we tire of the next aircraft thats overused the la7s and spit9's (by then used far less) would or should imo become free(or very cheap) to use again.
seems to me people claim perks dont work yet have no basis with which to argue the point.The only aircraft thats ever been changed into a perk aircraft was a major success in terms of it went from most commonly used and bane of the MA to a normal and acceptable number of appearances.so to your claim perking doesnt work i say horse**** :) true it wont change behaviour much but without their free fast rides they wont be running so often and escaping will they? We wont have to fly a 1945 aircraft in order to keep in proximity to 90% of the aircraft.
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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
BTW, Boon'n runners are not a problem at all. They are like nonexistant planes. Every time I see a strato P38/51/47 I usually wait for the first attack to find out what kind of attaker it is: boon'n runner or boon'n zoomer. If the result is boom'n runner, I simply ignore it for the rest of the fight. If the result is boom'n zoomer, then we are in real problems.
Well hot damn! There ya go! Go ye forth and teach. :)
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Originally posted by Batz
Urchin gets 12 kills per hour and has a kd of about 4. I have seen his kd at 15. Kill per sortie at 2. All without running.
My averages (wotan) were a kd of 3 to 4 and a kill per hour of 5 to 8. There are many others who beat both.
A high kill per hour doesnt mean a lo kd or that you die every sortie. But so what if it does. As Urchin said this is a game and you dont really "die". As I pointed out those arguing against what Urchin said have kds below 1 and kills per hour around 2.
If someone is running, he is denying the enemy a fight - the runner doesn't get a kill. If he is not running, someone is going to die.
Just do the math:
You: K/D 4, 8 K/hr. From this you can easily calculated 2 Death/hr. Sum of kills and deaths shows that you met 10 enemy planes per hour.
Urchin: 12 K/hr, K/D of 12 (for easier calculation). 1 Death/hr, 13 fights per hour.
What you think are the scores of a runner dweeb: 3 K/hr, K/D of 0.5. 6 Deaths/hr, 9 fights per hour.
That's one fight per hour less than you have, but at 6 deaths per hour the "runner" has to fly to the fight every 10 minutes. You cannot earn these kind of stats by running. There simply isn't enough time in an hour to fly to the fight and then extend for a full sector just to auger.
But feel free to stick with your low K/hr equals few fights/hr theory...
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For me it has always been, "Aces High is what you make it."
If I am not having fun doing something, I'll change to something else. There are sooooo many things to do in AH it is difficult for me to run out of options. Multi-layered player, I guess.
But not all are like that. Some just want to bomb, to furball, to tank, to drop supplies. I believe this is where boredom and frustration comes it. I can see where that would be tough.
Oh BTW, thanks to Lazs and Urchin who cleared my six last night! Dont know why you just got an assist there Lazs? :) It was surely your kill!
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ccvi I dunno what the hell your talking about but go read what I wrote.
A guy getting 12 kills per hour is fighting. a guy with a high kd and a high number of kills per hour is fighting.
A guy with 2 kills per hour isnt fighting
A guy with 2 kills per hour and a kd of .5 isnt fighting and when he does face the enemy more often then not he catch bullets.
Thats what the stats tell ya.
They may not tell you about skill or ability but they show a clear pattern. 1 kill every 30 min is not fighting.
You could be in 5 fights an hour and be killed 4 times with no kills and kill 2 in the other sortie. You could get those 2 kills in 30 sec. Then spend 5 min for each death and still have 35 min of running time. No planes takes more the 20 min to cross a sector. See i can manipulate the numbers to.
Folks with a high kill per time get in more fights then even their kill per time shows. Just in 12 of those fights they got kills. The rest of that hour they may have been flying to the fight and or chasing a runner. Or involved in a really good fight. No matter how you wanna guage it kills per time is a great indicator of the aggressiveness of the flyer. Runners have lo kills per time. I know I fought one of the runners in this thread and they ran every time.
You can save the euro lessons.
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What is considered a decent K/T?*
* Not a troll, please oh please.. someone give me a straight answer! :)
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just logged into pizza flew a 190a5 to 18k , jumped by la7 and p51 chased down 2 spits joined in and i ended up being chased by all 4. After throwing them off my tail at least once each I eventually ran out of options, anytime i got a shot on one the other three reengaged.result ded.
took a gunner position on a CV. killed a lanc that suicide bombed the CV, a few bombs landed near, killed a p47 that suicided CV bombs dropped just behind but close, killed 2 ju88s suiciding CV, bombs close, then missed a p47 which wonders will never cease, suicided the CV, flew straight into the waterthru the deck. result CV sank.
further result. logged off in disgust. AH2 needs to arrive soon.
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Originally posted by Arlo
I understand the claim. And yes, it happens. But there's whiners that'll claim it happens when it actually is a case of disengaging from a disadvantaged state or RTBing damaged or wounded just for an excuse to whine. Hell, there really isn't reason to whine even when it's a case as you stated. Woe-tan can't figure that out ... although I still enjoy hammering it at his forehead. ;)
Whining is just whining.
"No use whining `bout it. No complaints." :D
I know I'm whining but sometimes you just got to vent.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by Batz
I know I fought one of the runners in this thread and they ran every time.
This somehow translates to "I don't ever whine" in Bratzspeak. ;)
Ya whiner. :D
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Urchin, Batz, Soviet, Heinkel, Brady, AG, and a tonne of other top notch pilots I used to fly with in 2/JG-3. Half the squad just upped and quit because Aces High has changed.
Brady and I have tried to make it real again in the Combat Theatre - improve gamplay. Bring back the dogfights - the hard earned attacks to capture a base. Bomber runs. But the strategy currently incorporated into Aces High is porked.
Urchin is right about the MA. It sucks. Bad. Dogfights where you could actually run into another squad and duke it out for 30 minutes is virtually non-existant now.
I'm pinning my hopes on AH2.
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I'm looking for a downside to this. Really I am. I mean ...
1: They'll more than likely all be back in time for the AHII:TOD release which is slated to come out in less than a month.
2: If they don't come back, there'll be a little less whining.
3: If they really feel like the thrill is gone and it ain't coming back then hey ... they did the right thing (for them).
But I don't think I'd bet on AHII:TOD fixing anything that really isn't broken.
The game's fine. The players are fine. I'm sure some true leaders will stick around and foster it (not just whine about it).
And if not, then the players that are having fun will just continue to do so and learn whatever they want to on their own.
*ShruG* Sorry ....
Can't find any sympathy for this right now.
Gimme a couple of months and I may form a regret or two.
But I know they're your friends (hell, I got friends too) so ...
(cues taps)
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Originally posted by Steve
What is considered a decent K/T?*
Depends on what you do. Past tour I decided to spend most of my time in long fighter sweep/CAP missions. The result was a poor K/T rewarded by a hi K/D. Actually, K/T score punish that kind of missions: CAP / F. Sweep.
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If you have both a very low K/T and a very low K/D then at least for that tour you sucked as fighter pilot - I think it's that simple.
You will likely get both scores low by using this weak dive and run away as somebody will always be higher and faster than you and you will be shot down beacuse you dont know how to fight agressivley anyway as evidenced by your choice of that tactic in the first place. And no, this dive, poor gunnery pass, and run away BS has nothing to do with E management, energy fighting or bnz fighting - so dont think highly of yourself as some E-fighting Erich Hartmann reeicarnate. This tactic is simply a sad, stupid reflection of your lack of skill, which can be excused for lack of experience. Or it is a pitiful reminder of ones unwilinness to risk, learn, improve and move forward, which cannot be excused in any way. So the choice is up to you.....
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Don't be shy Grun, tell us what you really think. :)
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Hmmmm
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Originally posted by Batz
ccvi I dunno what the hell your talking about
Doesn't matter. One of the states in the US even defined PI as 3.2 by law...
A guy getting 12 kills per hour is fighting. a guy with a high kd and a high number of kills per hour is fighting.
Is fighting successfully, no doubt about that.
A guy with 2 kills per hour isnt fighting
... successfully. What makes you think he isn't fighting at all?
A guy with 2 kills per hour and a kd of .5 isnt fighting and when he does face the enemy more often then not he catch bullets.
With those stats he is involved in 6 fights per hour, winning 2, dieing in 4. The rest the time he has to spend getting back to the fight because of the many deaths.
They may not tell you about skill or ability but they show a clear pattern. 1 kill every 30 min is not fighting.
Imagine someone with a K/D of 0.5 (which isn't too uncommon) actually be fighting by your definition and getting 10 K/hr. If he did, that would mean he was getting killed 20 times per hour, or either shooting someone down or beeing shot down every 2 minutes.
See i can manipulate the numbers to.
You're making a good effort to try to.
__________________
Damn packet loss. He took so many hits that he should be going down in a fireball.
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ccvi:
Your K/D K/T interplation of "fight" frequency is innovative but flawed.
It is entirely uneccsary to engage in a fight for a K/D score to be figured, after you get some kills, because any crash death, like suicide jabo run on undefended target, will count against your K/D no matter if anyone shot you or fought you. So it is not an accurate factor in determing actual "fights" fought.
Basically if you got low k/d and low k/t you suck as a fighter pilot that tour - killing nothing and dying a lot. This is the result of this coward run away no skill never want to risk and lean tactic. Then just add suicide jabo runs they love to do and it gets worse.
If both k/d and k/t are high then youre doing really good.
If k/d is high and k/t low youre flying to live but still killing.
If k/d is low and k/t high youre a mad furballer at low alt gettin lots a kills fast but dying.
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started playing when airwarror went belly up, what 2 to 3 yrs ago. 190's la7's then same now. so as long as i've been playing there never was anything but b n z. oh the alt the game was higher back then due to routine 25k buffing.
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Ya know, I can remember the big furballs, when I first started playing, some year and a half ago. It was typical that it would flow back and forth between the 2 bases, and perhaps eventually either one side would capture or pork the enemy base or the fight might peter out. But it seemed like those furballs lasted for hours. You caould log on fly in the furball for a couple of hours, log off, mow the grass, wash the car, eat dinner, log back on and join in on that same furball. I died a lot in those days. ;)
Its the strat model / capture part that has made a good furball hard to find, IMO. It seems to be more important these days.....why even the rooks are trying to win a reset or 2. :D
I need a new 'puter, cause a furball just kills my frame rate (we're talkin single digits here)
on the bright side:
K/D up to .8
K/H up to 3.6
(in fighters)
K/D in attack mode is .4 (those building ARE tough!)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Basically if you got low k/d and low k/t you suck as a fighter pilot that tour - killing nothing and dying a lot.
You suck compared to the average player. Correct.
This is the result of this coward run away no skill never want to risk and lean tactic.
You draw the same wrong conclusion as batz does. A low score is not neccessarily the result of whimpy flying. If an completely unskilled player stays in a fight he's going to get killed. If he tries to run he's also going to be killed. No big difference score wise.
The point of not learning anything has nothing to do with score - many posts indicated that the training system in AH just plain sucks.
Then just add suicide jabo runs they love to do and it gets worse.
Those can affect score. But like everthing that can affect score: It is impossible to tell why a score is the way it is.
To see a bad score and then decided that that player is a runner is wrong in two ways. Running does have no big impact on score, and even things that do have a big impact on score can't be distinguished from other things that also have a big impact by just looking at the score.
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steve has a point... what is a good K/H? what is a high k/h? What is average? decent gameplay is probly at least 4 K/h less than 6 or 8 and I get bored 10 or so is perfect for me.
At one time I suggested that we have an "average stat" for all stats. at the top of the stat page. I think that such an "average stat" would be very useful to judge the effect of changes to the game and chjanges in the playerbase.. you could see what effect certain modifications to the "strat" and playerbase had on the game.
Right now, we are just going by what it looks like to us.
When I suggested this way back when HTC said it sounded like a good idea so either they have forgotten about it or it is more difficult to do than it seemed.
lazs
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Lasz, if the average of K/hr was 10 this would also mean that the average of deaths per hour was 10 - length of average flight 6 minutes.
Oh, 6 minute flights are what you like, nevermind.
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ccvi... yeah, that is what I like... 6 minutes to get into a fight.. probly a lot do... so what? what does that have to do with having an "average stats" page? if the average was say 5... and it sudenly went to 12 after a change like say..... closer fields then...
the building battlers and sky accountants could point to that and have a legitimate gripe as to how AH was now "quake" or whatever and the excietment was damaging their heart.
when the average wass 5 and someone with 2 came on and told everyone how he didn't understand the problem and that he never had any trouble finding a fight then we could all laugh at him like. oh wait your K/H is..
lazs
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Kills/Hour is an unrealistic stat imho. Some planes like the Jug that climb slowly now have to be 20K usually in the gangbang evironment we are now playing.
The one on ones are getting rare.....almost extinct.
I don't think Priller, Anderson, Bong were concerned about getting 12 kills/hour. One 3 hour hop would at 4kills/hour result in 12 kills. For some reason I don't think it happened that way.
If it did, the Aces of WW2 would have kills in the thousands. They uppped, formed and grabbed on course, and fought what they encountered. And most of us up and set course to a fight.
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Hiya, Urchin! :)
Originally posted by Urchin
I used to enjoy the hell out of playing this game. You could log in, find a fight quick, kill or be killed, repeat until you were done.
Now you log in, take off, if you find one enemy plane you'd better be in a 262 to run him down in, cause he sure as hell ain't fighting. If you can find two or three enemy planes, you might be able to get some sort of 'fight', as long as they are all above you. If they are co-alt or lower typically they'll make a couple half-assed passes and run.
So what happened? It isn't limited to one country... just about everyone flies like a sissy. The only GOOD fight I had today was me in a spit against 5 rooks. It is a little pathetic when the only time anyone will do anything other than bore and zoooooooooom is when they have a 5 to 1 numbers advantage, but you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone that will fight with less than that.
I'm flying all by my lonesome about 5 thousand feet below the rooks streaming in to orbit one of the knight bases... and I couldn't count the number of times one would dive, make a horrible halfassed pass, and then either run back to his ack, or keep going towards my base where all his friends are. Why? Are people really THAT bad? And whats more.... they must KNOW they are that bad, or they wouldn't be so whoopeeed scared. Furthermore... why the hell are you scared? It is a VIDEO GAME. You don't REALLY DIE. You can take off again as soon as you get shot down. And whats really really awful is... you might actually LEARN HOW TO FIGHT. I know, it's unknown and the unknown is scary, but trust me, it is a helluva lot more fun than 'fighting' like a perpetual motion machine.
It is disgusting, at least to me. The most commonly used offensive 'tactic' is dive, make a crappy pass, zoom. If target banks, just zoom, don't bother shooting. Run after 1 pass, 2 passes at most. And God forbid you actually attack an enemy plane that is lower than you. Want to know what you'll see? I can tell you, and I'll be right about 99.999999999% of the time. Split-S, haul bellybutton for ack. Don't turn around until you've flown through some friendly ack, no matter how far away it is.
To all you bore and zoom sissys out there.... if you absolutely refuse to learn how to fight, do me a favor. LEARN HOW TO SHOOT. That way I won't have to sit and suffer through 18,000 half-assed bore and zoom passes.
Hehe, if I had written that, there would have been a plethora of smartasses taunting me to the effect that the enemy "does not fly the way I want them to"! That's OK, I take things as they come, and deal with a situation as it arises, rather than expecting a pre-conceived set of parameters to be met so as to provide a "manufactured" fight.
Urch, don't feel bad. I have only a crumb of comfort to offer, and that is that I've been doing much better in the 109G10 after following your advice, and that of ecke and Grunherz, and others. I still have your list of 109G10 v. other comparisons on my desk. I enjoy flying that G10 because it's a tough one to learn, and because it's not a point-n-click plane. I think what YOU are seeing, Urch, is a bunch of timid guys who have probably upped in easy planes for a kwik-kill-fix. Then when they see that you're no pushover, they panic and run lest you should kill them and find out who they are - which you can do anyway with the film editor.
Well, I did say it would only be a crumb. But you made a big difference - for me. Your task now is to get some of those dweebs out of their easy rides - Spit/La7/N1K & poss. Yak9U etc., and try to get 'em to accept a challenge in the form of learning something new. I know - it's going to be like pushing a house uphill...
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That damned pizza map really makes it hard for me to enjoy my time in the game.
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hajo.. i am trying every plane this tour and landing a kill in it before I go on the next. I won't go over 6k agl and I have gone through the P47's allready. I have never seen 20k agl in this game but i have killed a bunch of guys who started out up there.
yeager... I agree.. it makes infinity seem action packed.
oh... the g10 seemed extremely easy to get kills in as did all the 109's... very simple planes to fly.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
ccvi... yeah, that is what I like... 6 minutes to get into a fight.. probly a lot do... so what? what does that have to do with having an "average stats" page? if the average was say 5... and it sudenly went to 12 after a change like say..... closer fields then...
Maybe I was opening fire in the wrong direction ;) I like the idea of average overall stats.
With the current setup an overall average of 10 K/hr is impossible (unless all are flying from CVs parked 2 miles of enemy fields). Those 6 minutes would not only include the way to the fight but also all fighting - till death.
If noone ran, according to Batz, everyone whould have a kill/hr of 10. This simply isn't possible by those 10 deaths/hour average that is required, which is impossible with the field distance. The result is that low K/hr is not neccesarily the result of running, and Batz point invalid.
when the average wass 5 and someone with 2 came on and told everyone how he didn't understand the problem and that he never had any trouble finding a fight then we could all laugh at him like. oh wait your K/H is..
If someone is dying 20 times per hour and get just 2 kills he's in more fights than someone who doesn't get killed and earns 10 kills per hour. K/hr is useless to determine the density of fighting over time.
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Kills per Hour mean squat.
Last night, a squaddy (way better than me) were patrolling the northern pizza slice. We were into fights constantly, but as my squaddie would kill most of the guys, I wound up with just one Pony to my credit after about an hour, and he had killed 6.
Now have I failed ? Noooo.
I guarded my mate, as he guarded me. Teamplay ? Check.
As a team, we killed 90% of bish attackers in that region. Killing enemies ? Check.
And it was a blast. Having fun ? Check.
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Originally posted by devious
Kills per Hour mean squat.
I agree with devious, and with Hajo above. K/H means bugger all as an isolated stat. A vulcher could do it. k/h does not take into account matters such as what the pilot was trying to achieve at the time, which may have been a jabo mission to kill a VH, followed by field cappage, or may have been buff escort etc. If k/h meant anything for me, I'd score my fighter sorties as Fighter, and jabo sorties as Attack. But why should I bother? k/h fails to take account of how many were online at the time, which might be as much as 500-600, or less than 100 as America sleeps. And as Hajo points out, in real WW2, aces did not have thousands of kills. Gabreski had about 35 kills in two wars spanning 10 years! But some guys feel they're slipping if they don't get that in a single sitting.
k/h is an ego massaging stat which caters to simple minds.
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Individaul K/T means a lot, its a sign of agressivness and risk taking - both of which are vital to skill development and learning in this game.
Obviously new guys wont be good on average but IMO the worst thing they could do is to pucker up and run away - that will never teach them anything. They gotta fight to improve...
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Originally posted by lazs2
batz is correct... the people defending the steamroller run awy style are awfull at the game.. thier style is not helping them a bit...They whould probly bite the bullet and learn how to fight rather than join "missuns" to fight over scraps or hide under their bunks.
.
urchin flew the f6 and the p40e the night I was with him. we flew p40's and the good part was.... we attracted a bunch of these brave B&Z ers guess it was a coincidnece that they went after us huh? guess it was just bad luck that I got 2 and he got 4?
you won't get good hiding under the bunk or participating in gangbangs or running away... it is that simple.
lazs
Okey-dokey, lassie, here's what you should do:
Next time let everybody know it's you in the area. Then we'll all scatter in various directions, promise not to talk to each other, and stay within 5-6 k. Then you can get to us at your leisure, and achieve many, many one-on-one kills. Some of us will make feints toward you to engage your SA, just to keep it interesting, but we WILL NOT shoot, since that would qualify as "gang banging" you.
All you have to do in return is promise to never, ever engage another plane in any arena with an e or position advantage ever again. And never, ever cherry pick somebody going after another plane. Never, ever attack a GV again.
These restrictions shouldn't bother a valiant knight of the air such as yourself. After all, from the way you talk, the only fun in this game is found in the dance of pure ACM. Posting about the wonder of keeping your SA in the furball and then complaining about mutiple attackers is not, in any way, inconsistent. Really. I just don't understand. That's because I am a stupid coward that would pull the valiant knight from his horse and kill him with a budgeon.
Get real, Lassie. If you don't want to be gang-banged, don't fly into huge clouds of enemy fighters. If you do fly into big clouds of enemy fighters, expect that every one of them will try a shot at you. It's nothing personal, since we don't see your name, you know. We just don't want to be shot down.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Individaul K/T means a lot, its a sign of agressivness and risk taking - both of which are vital to skill development and learning in this game.
Even if someone get's 0 K/hr that does not mean he's not taking risks or not trying to learn. For taking risks at least the complete opposite is true - to not get any kills when flying you have to take huge risks.
According to Shane (if I remember his preachings in the DA right) fighting starting from a defensive position is the best way to learn fighting. Doing so in the MA will surely result in many lost fights, and in a low K/hr.
I do not fully agree with the idea that fighting with a start in a defensive position is the best option for practice, but getting lot's of kills per hour in the MA simply isn't possible for most new players. And trying possibilties are hiding pretty well.
Obviously new guys wont be good on average but IMO the worst thing they could do is to pucker up and run away - that will never teach them anything. They gotta fight to improve...
You just can't read their (or anyones) behaviour from the scores.
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But the guys who run away and this guarantee a low K/T will never learn anything.
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While running can create low K/hr, on the other hand a low K/hr does not prove running - but this is what Batz tried to use player scores for on this threat. That's where he's wrong.
A => B is neither required nor sufficient for B => A.
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But you were also wrong about K/D and K/T "fight" interpolation.
Its a subjective thing ccvi, and i'm telling you the guys who run away have low skills and are often deciving themselves by thinking its some sort of heroic skilled e-fighting, at least thats what they tell me after I make fun of them on Ch1 for running away from my IL2 or SBD-5 so sheepishly... And the sad result of their misconception is a reluctance to learn new tactics - any tactics actally - and so correct the flaws in their flying style. And it is a flaw, because they are attemting attacks but fail to capitalize on them and finsh it through because of their cowardice and lack of risk taking - mind you even against something as non threating as an SBD-5.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But you were also wrong about K/D and K/T "fight" interpolation.
Not really. If augers were part of the score, yes. But they aren't: "All countries have 130955 kills and have been killed 130955 times against all countries." Same number of kills as number of deaths indicates that augers without enemy intervention are not part of the score (or at least not part of the score acquired this way, not sure if deaths without involvment of other players are figured in on another kind of scoring). Therefore Deaths/Time is exactly Kills/Time divided by Kills/Deaths (except the +1 on deaths to avoid division by zero).
Its a subjective thing ccvi, and i'm telling you the guys who run away have low skills and are often deciving themselves by thinking its some sort of heroic skilled e-fighting, at least thats what they tell me after I make fun of them on Ch1 for running away from my IL2 or SBD-5 so sheepishly... And the sad result of their misconception is a reluctance to learn new tactics - any tactics actally - and so correct the flaws in their flying style. And it is a flaw, because they are attemting attacks but fail to capitalize on them and finsh it through because of their cowardice and lack of risk taking - mind you even against something as non threating as an SBD-5.
I'm not saying that it is really fun to fight those kind of fighting style. I have seen some even run away from me, and I do suck. It's a problem off skill, practice and the absence of training (or at least of the training program hiding pretty well). No need to argue about that.
I did just post to bash batz' wrong use of scores to intimidated other posters, not to make a point that some runners are playig fine the way they do.
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Augers are part of K/D go ahead and test it yourself plus of course so are deaths to ack during suicide rund of undefended bases.
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And that kind of running makes sure they will never learn- thats my whole point and problem with people stuck in that mindset.
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Ordinarily Urchin, I would see that you're a Nitwit and wonder at your nerve :) Mostly because I see exactly what you describe in most, if not all of the Nits I fight. ;) However, I would guess that you are prolly correct in wondering why they (meaning a lot in AH nowadays) fight the way they do.
I agree, Boom and Zoom is extremely boring; not only for the nme being attacked but, also for the attacker. I try and use the E fighting method, which is a lot more difficult.
I notice also that an awful lot of pilits will sooner go for the HO rather than use acm and jockey for position and angles. It usually goes something like this:
I approach a sector that has an nme DarBar in it. I look around at alt until I see an nme dot ahead. I put my nose down to pick up some speed. The nme dot sees me and begins a climb but, he soon realizes that I am gaining and have more E. Nme dot turns to me and comes straight at me beginning to fire at 1.7 to 1.4 out; sigh...I either rip him apart or, he takes serious hits and winds up clipping my tail or a wing as we pass. Two days ago I killed the same guy (A Nit) 2 times in the same hop in the exact same way.:( Both times he was in a Lamer 7.
And more and more I see the textlines filled with questions by apparent new guys asking things like: "how do I take off? How do I land? How do I choose 3 B-26s and bomb in them? How do I use the mic so I can hear and speak? ...and on and on.
I find myself wondering how a person can download the program, log on, and expect to learn the game without reading the manual? Its as if they think its any usual online frag fest game that they can jump in and kill with.:confused:
So, they don't use acm because they don't know how or even, what acm is. They run away from a fight because they don't know how to fight, and there is safety in numbers...hell even some of the Vets won't be caught dead without 5 or 6 in a group. And at that they will be the ones to be involved in 6 on one chasing 1 unfortunate nme who happened to be in the same piece of air as they are.
Pfft! I enjoy the game still, and comfort myself with my own reasons for getting enjoyment. I suggest you say F--it! and do the same
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Originally posted by TW9
Please correct me if im wrong... Isnt bnz an "e fighting method"? Well the real bnz, not the B and run-like-hell... I like to bnz its my favorite tactic in 2 of my favorite rides (typh, g10).. Dont find anything boring about it.. And its not always easy..
You're correct, TW9. The most important elements of successful BnZ are aggressiveness and unpredictability, two features sorely lacking from the HO-and-run gang. I have no qualms whatsoever with facing a skilled BnZer. In fact, it's a treat when you see someone who knows his ride well enough and displays enough confidence to fly it aggressively while BnZing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Augers are part of K/D go ahead and test it yourself plus of course so are deaths to ack during suicide rund of undefended bases.
Tried it. You're right. Still, not many auger near buildings in fighter mode - that doesn't score perks. Also, a fight that ends with an auger near a building is a lost fight against a buidling. Can't see anything wrong with that - except that if someone loses that kind of fights regularaly training is even more required than when someone loses a2a fights ;)
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K/T is not a meaningless stat. You can't get a high K/T by vultching because... it is allmost impossible to guarentee that you will find a vultch. The nature of vultching requires that you have air superiority and that the ack is down and that you are able to get the kills before all the other vultchers do... this in itself requires some pretty impressive acm... also ... finding the vultch is pretty much luck with these far apart fields. what you go after is nothing like what you find when you get there.. to many variables to make vultching a viable way to achieve a high K/T stat. You might be able to improve your K/t for a night or two by lucky vultch noights but overall....
add a high K/T with a high K/D and you can pretty much say that you have a very aggressive and talented player..
As for not getting a lot of kills because you let your wingman get em all... what a wuss. in the BK's it is a point of honor to steal the kill from each other... but none of that matters.... the most skilled and most agressive will get the highest K/T. If your partner get's it then you need to sharpen up a bit. If you are in pony then you have lost the K/T thing before you even start anyway in most cases.
and hubert.... I don't want or need your cooperation... you are a non factor in any arena I am in.
K/t of 10 is fairly easy to get in the smaller maps or in lucky nights in the infinity or pizza.
lazs
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Individaul K/T means a lot, its a sign of agressivness and risk taking - both of which are vital to skill development and learning in this game.
It can also mean that the guy is a professional vulcher too.....
I can land 10-15 kills in a 190A-8 just by following the horde and vulching the crap out of the field. K/T is too easily manipulated.
My regards,
Widewing
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Man I tell you....the average AI fella in FB is in far better condition than the average AH Schmoe. Thats almost funny.
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This threat is about running.
You can't prove that someone is a runner by his score.
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Originally posted by Steve
What is considered a decent K/T?*
* Not a troll, please oh please.. someone give me a straight answer! :)
I have no clue, but I'm sure mine is in the crapper. It takes awhile for Zeroes to reach the enemy base. :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
K/T is not a meaningless stat. You can't get a high K/T by vultching because... it is allmost impossible to guarentee that you will find a vultch.
Its not so hard on the AKDesert Pizza map. There are plenty of Vehicle Bases with spawn points right next to each other. Its just a matter of being quicker on the draw than the other guy.
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ccvi you are an idiot. You make assumption that are irrelevant. I know who the runners as I fought them. One of the loudest in this thread is a runner and I have fought him numerous times. Not only does he have a lo KD but a k/t as well.
You dont know ****. Augers do count against kd. Guys will high kills per time get in more fights then their kill per time shows.
So stfu.
K/t could mean a vulcher who doesnt fight at all but just vulched. But again I have seen Urchin fight. No assumption and screwy math is needed.
You are just making **** up.
Gruen is right. There are guys with a lo k/t and a high kd. Guys who fly high and engage from an advantage but get kills.
Theres guys with a high Kill per time who have a lo k/d. These are the furballers who up fight to the death then reup again.
theres the timid Bore and ZZZZZZZZZZZZ'rs that make half assed gun passes then run. Their kd and kts are lo.
The ones arguing against Urchins point are the ones with lo kds and lo kts. But on top of that theres real arena experince to back up my point. So piss off with your bs assumptions and magic math.
Intimidate other posters? Hell if they are intmidated they oughta butch up. Not only on the board but ingame as well. Every attempt "to bash batz" has ended up with you being corrected for your assinine assumptions.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
You're correct, TW9. The most important elements of successful BnZ are aggressiveness and unpredictability, two features sorely lacking from the HO-and-run gang. I have no qualms whatsoever with facing a skilled BnZer. In fact, it's a treat when you see someone who knows his ride well enough and displays enough confidence to fly it aggressively while BnZing.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Those guys are far and few between !!!
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Whats important is folks keep the discussion in the context of the thread.
Urchins says Bore and ZZZZ runners make for a dull arena
3 or 4 guys call him a whiner and say that bore and zzzz is the only smart way to fly. Smart implies something.
Compare stats like k/d and k/t with the guys who claim Bore and zzz is the only way to fight shows that they dunno what the heck they are talking about.
These stats are supported by ingame experience. Namely being there when the guys run.
No one said any of these are strict indicators of skill, they do give a reasonable idea of fighting style especially when back by experience.
People can fly how they want and find their fun how they want. But dont get surprised or fake outrage when folks call you boring.
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Lazs.....logged on this morning (EDST) and had to look up! Neck was getting sore.......bogeys were in the 25K range and me in a low Jug. Not conducive to safe flying when there are 4 of them that high...and you're the low Jug at 12K. Were some fun fights, but I got tired of dodging the re entry level ftrs.......so I decided to get to 20K also. Heck...still lower but it was fun.
And at A 215 this afternoon 3PM till about 6PM was fighting La7s, and ponies that would make a HO pass..........run.........com e back later....say 5 mins or so when you're engaged. Then you'd get their 6...............then they'd run again.
That's certainly is using their craft to their advantage......but makes for boring gameplay imho.
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Originally posted by Hajo
That's certainly is using their craft to their advantage......but makes for boring gameplay imho.
No they certainly are not, especially in the case of the La7 with its close in accel and great climb - running away is a real waste. These peole suck, its that simple.
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Originally posted by Batz
ccvi you are an idiot. You make assumption that are irrelevant. I know who the runners as I fought them. One of the loudest in this thread is a runner and I have fought him numerous times. Not only does he have a lo KD but a k/t as well.
*whiiine* Sniiiifle* whiiiine*
Neh, you are. And a compulsive whiner to boot. You quit the game "because it changed" but you're too stupid to figure out that it's not the game, it's you. You cry about being able to define another player's character through his stats (after having made offhanded comments that you could care less ). Why do you feel you have to stick around and rationalize your (or anyone else's) actions? You and a bunch of your squadies supposedly left but you're still here whinin' `bout it. (Which is why I didn't take the "quitting the game in protest" gimmick too seriously - you'll be flying again in a month, either as Batz or maybe even under a new third identity.)
Just a case of mass hysteria on a small scale that doesn't really need to be taken seriously.
Hell, if you and your friends weren't havin' fun anymore, then that's all you needed to say. Good enough. Quit. But hell, whinin' and blamin' everyone else just seemed like the natural thing, didn't it? Pathetic.
:rolleyes:
If I ever stop having fun then I won't need to be a drama queen about it (even through a proxy). And I sure as hell wouldn't make excuses and blame others. I'll just tell my squadies and friends that I'm quitting/taking a break (whatever the case) and that I enjoyed flyin' with `em and leave it at that. Until then, I'm going to enjoy myself and not give a rat's arse who's panties it gets in a knot because I'm not "flying the way they want me to" (percieved or otherwise).
See you next month. And lookin' forward to your quitting again after that. :D
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Originally posted by Batz
Whats important is folks keep the discussion in the context of the thread.
Urchins says Bore and ZZZZ runners make for a dull arena
3 or 4 guys call him a whiner and say that bore and zzzz is the only smart way to fly. Smart implies something.
Compare stats like k/d and k/t with the guys who claim Bore and zzz is the only way to fight shows that they dunno what the heck they are talking about.
These stats are supported by ingame experience. Namely being there when the guys run.
No one said any of these are strict indicators of skill, they do give a reasonable idea of fighting style especially when back by experience.
People can fly how they want and find their fun how they want. But dont get surprised or fake outrage when folks call you boring.
Pfffftttt .... moron.
All I said was it's amazing how some whine on and on and don't quit. A suggestion that apparently was taken to heart. Your welcome. Or should that be thank you? ;)
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I quit ah over running? WTF are you talking about?
My accounts been paid and will be paid. I have stuff going in ah that will keep me busy until mid 2004.
Do you just make **** up or what? The only time I ever quit was last january when I gave up Wotan. Mostly because work had me busy for 14 hours a day and connection issues. I came back to help in nieman (which I committed to do in November) then there was guadalcanal. Now theres several other things popped up that even with out AH2:ToD to keep my attention.
Calling you what you are isnt a whine. But anyway you wanna take it is fine by me. Are you saying you dont run? or are you still saying that running is "smart flying"? Dont change your tune now.
ccvi is saying your 2 kills per hour and .3 kd doesnt mean you "run". We both know that aint true. You see ccvi is asking how do I know you run by looking at those stats. Its easy I saw you do it numerous times.
Where you keep getting this "he quit" bull**** I dunno. I dont fly often but that aint because you are a runner. You can run all you want. My only interest is when it effects me. Your ho run 10k reverse ho run 10k bs is just boring and when I am there I will tell you it is.
You are right its not the "game" its the current crop of wussies like yourself. You run in face of the "fight" but you dont do it because you are trying to "live" (just look at your kd) you do it cause your a wuss and cant take another "you've been killed by xxx"
Because you are a lying wuss isnt reason enough for anyone to quit. Especially when theres many opportunities to remind you of it. If you are tired of the whining then why dont you quit?
Yes you are lying if you are saying I have a host of "I quit posts" just like you did about fariz.
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Originally posted by Mister Fork
Urchin, Batz, Soviet, Heinkel, Brady, AG, and a tonne of other top notch pilots I used to fly with in 2/JG-3. Half the squad just upped and quit because Aces High has changed.
Brady and I have tried to make it real again in the Combat Theatre - improve gamplay. Bring back the dogfights - the hard earned attacks to capture a base. Bomber runs. But the strategy currently incorporated into Aces High is porked.
Urchin is right about the MA. It sucks. Bad. Dogfights where you could actually run into another squad and duke it out for 30 minutes is virtually non-existant now.
I'm pinning my hopes on AH2.
You sure seem to have Fork convinced you did. Nice touch having a proxy play drama queen for you so you can have a convenient "out." Besides, nobody was fooled for a sec.
You pizz and moan and carry on. My flying has nothing to do with it really ... other than to provide you with a supposedly good excuse to pee your diaper every single time you log on to the server or the board. :D
I'm having a blast and either I'll get better or I won't. But ... and this may sound familiar to you ... I just like calling it like I see it. And in you I see misery. Eh, some are stuck there from birth, I reckon. ;)
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Urchin, Batz, Soviet, Heinkel, Brady, AG, and a tonne of other top notch pilots I used to fly with in 2/JG-3. Half the squad just upped and quit because Aces High has changed.
Well that is correct for the most part JG2 ended in Jan at that time all of them and myself "quit". But not for the reasons you attribute and there certainly were not many times that I have "quit". Your were lying when you implied that.
All the pizz 'n moanin that bugs ya can be squelched or ignored. However, calling you a wuss is no more or less whining then you do your self. I mean you put yourself in this thread only be able to throw out "whiner". If it bugs so then why bother?
A few phrases like wuss and runner here and there dont mean much. Its not until you attempt to debate the subject that it ends up more.
If I see you in an arena and you run the I will say, "You running wuss" and go else where. Its not until you start bs'ing and trying to rationalize your lameness that anything else gets said. It doesnt bother me a bit calling you a liar and a wuss. Just accept that and that would be it.
Its you that whined about ah2:tod and training, its you that whined about the cms tweaking of the arenas. Its you that whine about the big "pik as" axis conspiracy to deny a good f4u pilot like yourself the chance to have "fun".
Those are real whines. Stating the obvious like calling you a lying runner may be unnecessary but its factual.
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Yeah ... guess it can be argued that one's perception is one's reality. You go girl! Whine on! :D
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rofl
I anticipate a rather interesting and complex relationship for years to come. ;)
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Upped my trusty pony to work on dispelling some rumors about runstangs....: Booted
Upped again to dispel those rumors: Booted
Upped again, just to see if I could actually play this game: Booted
This kind of stuff is Great for my enjoyment of the game, thanks HT!!!!.
No, my conn to the internet is not porked, it never wavered.
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>>Please correct me if im wrong... Isnt bnz an "e fighting method"?<<
Technically you can say it is TW9 but, it isn't the same. BnZ you make yer plane act as a pendulum, swinging back and forth, dive down, miss, zoom back up, and continue the iterations until, if yer lucky, you kill something or lawndart.
"E" Fighting is a method where you keep the initiative and the advantage by diving down at an opponent, make him turn, and using vertical turns you keep the nme at a disadvantage by constantly having to react to your moves instead of vice versa. The more an nme turns to avoid you, the more E he burns, and the better your advantages are going to be.
With a pure BnZ approach, you don't turn, you keep flying the pendulum. It is best used in Furballs where you dive down and shoot at something, and zoom back up and away to get in position to do it again.
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Don, some would argue that what you described was just the difference between a poorly executed BnZ and a well executed one. I've never read a description of the "BnZ" requiring regular uniform "pendulum" style sweeps hoping the enemy gets in front of your crosshairs.
Bear in mind that I've never claimed to be good at `em, but I have been a student of it for awhile now. ;)
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Shane's my old friend from way back in my AW days (well, he was Oopsy then). Gotta love his new alter EGO. ;)
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Greunherz!
I was trying to be kind :D
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Originally posted by Don
>>Please correct me if im wrong... Isnt bnz an "e fighting method"?<<
Technically you can say it is TW9 but, it isn't the same. BnZ you make yer plane act as a pendulum, swinging back and forth, dive down, miss, zoom back up, and continue the iterations until, if yer lucky, you kill something or lawndart.
"E" Fighting is a method where you keep the initiative and the advantage by diving down at an opponent, make him turn, and using vertical turns you keep the nme at a disadvantage by constantly having to react to your moves instead of vice versa. The more an nme turns to avoid you, the more E he burns, and the better your advantages are going to be.
With a pure BnZ approach, you don't turn, you keep flying the pendulum. It is best used in Furballs where you dive down and shoot at something, and zoom back up and away to get in position to do it again.
Energy Fighting is the method of using your Energy to achieve an angle on your opponent of which there are many tactics you can employ to achieve this. BnZ is just one of quite a few tactics you can use, just like a Rope-A-Dope or a Vertical Eight. These tactics have in common the use of Energy to gain an angle on your opponent.
Ack-Ack
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I found this very same problem a while back in AH, you know, every man and his dog flying a late war Russian bird, and no one willing to 'fight', which did tend to get a bit tedious.
I was sitting here thinking about the whole problem one day when the solution hit me like a left hook
So, I went down the back to the toolshed, grabbed a few blocks of wood, and stuck 'em under my desk's legs. raising the whole thing about 6 or 8 inches.
Then I pinched one of the high bar stool type chairs that we have in the kitchen, and used it for a flying chair.
Anyway, boredom in AH isnt a problem any more, the missus fits under there nicely, and that annoying 'bonk bonk bonk' sound is gone too :)
I couldn't care less what the cons do now.
He he, c'mon guys, lighten up, it is just a game after all.
PS if you happen to se a Knit 109 doing very wobbly loops in one spot, then augering, just ignore it, Im not really paying attention .
PPS, for an easier solution, involving less wood, just up a perk ride, EVERYBODY wants to fight ya then :)
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hajo.. wasn't on yesterday and don't fly over 6k agl this tour. musta been some other "laz"
lazs
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One short anecdote..
yesterday i flew in MA.
I was at 18k alt when i met a lonely spit which was about at 20k.when i closed,the spit dove down to its cv,hidding in the ack.
Ok..shiit happens...i let that spit alone and headed to a close friendly field,hopeing if i could intercept incoming enemies.But there was none.After a few minutes i headed back to the enemy-cv.I wanted to look after that spit.
when i arrived, i saw Blondy in a 109 turning with the spit a bit outside of ack-range.
Yeah....no mercy for ackrunners.And we both ganged the spit.
After a few turns, i was close behind the spit.But just before i could press the trigger, the spitpilot bailed out.I thought Blondy hit him before.but Blondy didnt.None of us got the killmessage.
Then Blondy told me that the spit did the same just before i arrived.
I was so surprised, that i forgot to kill his chute.
If bailing out or beeing killed, for the spitpilot, this sortie was finnished.The only difference was, that he safed his k/d rate.
How can someone be proud of his score while 'increasing' it this way?
I guess,that is what Urchin is talking about.
Nowadays you can see a lot of fearfull attempts of staying alive (or increasing someones score).So fearfull that some guys even refuse to have fun for their 15$.
May Arlo hop in now and call this a whine.(The only thing that he can do while spending hours in the forum instead playing the game) And maybe it is a whine.
I (and not only me) know that something has changed in MA.And it changes to the bad.
Ecke
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>>There are different forms of bnz, u just described 2 of em.. Regardless of how u e fight u are still bnz'ing..
Dont confuse BNZ with those run and ho'ers its not the same.. Not even close.. And btw when i get kills i hardly consider it lucky..<<
TW9:
It's symantics. And I am not confusing BnZ with runners; I know what and who they are :) I see them all the time in the MA.
Hehe, I applaud you on your consideration of the quality of your kills, confidence is a good thing in all things ;)
But my response was about a particular type of acm which is called "E"nergey fighting. I suggest that you read a book by a person named Shaw; a book about air combat manuevers which has been around the combat flight sim world for many years now. Its a good read, and will provide a lot of insights into air combat.
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>>Energy Fighting is the method of using your Energy to achieve an angle on your opponent of which there are many tactics you can employ to achieve this. BnZ is just one of quite a few tactics you can use, just like a Rope-A-Dope or a Vertical Eight. These tactics have in common the use of Energy to gain an angle on your opponent.
Ack-Ack<<
Bingo!!! :D
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Originally posted by Don
Bingo!!!
i'll still shoot you anyway, especially if you used it all up spraying at me!
:D
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>> (and not only me) know that something has changed in MA.And it changes to the bad. <<
IMO the "something" you refer to is the quality of pilits in the game now. There are still good ones but, they are prolly not logged on at the same times as you are.
I also think this may be attributed to the lack of a coherent training component in the game. People just seem to want to log on and get kills. These kinda newbies dont have a clue and it isn't necessarily their fault. They are also the ones who will up repeatedly from a hopelessly capped field and get shot down repeatedly; a lot of fun for the vulchers but, no fun for the vulchee. These guys will remember and acquire strange ways of flying the game.
Hmmm, mebbe, or mebbe not
:D
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The latest furballer whines:
"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."
"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
Y'all REALLY need to get over it. Go shoot each other down in the duelling arena, willya??
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QUIT whining about head-ons. Every one here knows at least two methods to avoid a head-on. If you don't like 'em, avoid 'em. If you get your panties in a wad and feel the need to shoot at the guy, take your medicine.:p
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screaming "whiner" to the protagonists from the front row seat.
the worse whiners are the whine whiners, they don't even have a point to make except how good their whine detecting skills are when they think they recognize a soap opera.
"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."
rather " there's too many crap pilots polluting the AH DOGFIGHTING (rather than running) pool"
"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
rather "coward or clueless tactics are for the cowards or newbs respectively, as anyone else knows when they are out of killshot range and thus have no reason to extend any further. Boring if they linger out tail between legs."
That's boring , more running then fighting, just like a topic is boring when there is more metaphysical debate about whines then actual arguing of the real original point.
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It's nice to see how this conversation came out of Urchin's worries that Aces High is straying away from it's roots, to a bantering about 'what is a whine'.
THE PROBLEM is that gameplay sucks, and the fact we're all complaining about it means we care about Aces High.
Moot, Batz, and other fellow JG'ers have made it quite clear. The MA is BORING and change is needed.
The question is, what can be done NOW to improve the MA before AH2 beta starts?
Better yet, WHEN is AH2 beta starting? Pyro? Hitech? Skuz?
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Originally posted by Ecke-109-
How can someone be proud of his score while 'increasing' it this way?
How can anyone be proud of his "score"? What does it mean in MA context?
AH flying is, at least for me, "having fun". Some guys (the ones willing to fite) provide AH with fun, for me. Some others (the ones willing to take a field) provide AH with the "defiance" factor (not easy to take off and defend a capped field. And then there are the ones that live up for the "score" factor. I could care less about them.
(btw., nice capping a hopeless field with ya, Ecke :))
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Originally posted by Ecke-109-
May Arlo hop in now and call this a whine.(The only thing that he can do while spending hours in the forum instead playing the game) And maybe it is a whine.
I (and not only me) know that something has changed in MA.And it changes to the bad.
Ecke
Welp ... I'll accomodate ya.
Ya WHINER! :D
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Originally posted by moot
screaming "whiner" to the protagonists from the front row seat.
the worse whiners are the whine whiners, they don't even have a point to make except how good their whine detecting skills are when they think they recognize a soap opera.
"There just aren't any good pilots in AH anymore, except me."
rather " there's too many crap pilots polluting the AH DOGFIGHTING (rather than running) pool"
"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
rather "coward or clueless tactics are for the cowards or newbs respectively, as anyone else knows when they are out of killshot range and thus have no reason to extend any further. Boring if they linger out tail between legs."
That's boring , more running then fighting, just like a topic is boring when there is more metaphysical debate about whines then actual arguing of the real original point.
I care that you're bored ..... whiner. :D
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Hey, not eveyone is bored. Lots of people in the game are having a blast. You guys that are complaining about the game being boring.. or that it's changed..... maybe you've just been around too long and need to find something else to do.
I'm not disputing your assertions that the game has changed so please do not take umbrage at my message. The fact is, things change..everything does. You can either adapt, complain on the boards about the good ol' days and be miserbale when you do play, or you can quit the game. Seems simple enough.
Seriously, do you think lamenting that things have changed is going to suddenly cause the clock to turn backwards and bring back your happy time? I think you've merely played the game too long. Time to try something else in game, or move on. The game has changed and continues to change. You may not be among them, but there are loads of people having a blast in AH; join them or go away. Anything else is pretty much pointless, don't ya think?
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Originally posted by Steve
Hey, not eveyone is bored. Lots of people in the game are having a blast. You guys that are complaining about the game being boring.. or that it's changed..... maybe you've just been around too long and need to find something else to do.
I'm not disputing your assertions that the game has changed so please do not take umbrage at my message. The fact is, things change..everything does. You can either adapt, complain on the boards about the good ol' days and be miserbale when you do play, or you can quit the game. Seems simple enough.
Seriously, do you think lamenting that things have changed is going to suddenly cause the clock to turn backwards and bring back your happy time? I think you've merely played the game too long. Time to try something else in game, or move on. The game has changed and continues to change. You may not be among them, but there are loads of people having a blast in AH; join them or go away. Anything else is pretty much pointless, don't ya think?
Dang! Im getting old :D
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TW9 why do you keep misrepresenting what folks are saying?
E fighting is perfectly described by Shaw. Get his book and read it because you are lost.
B'n'Z is a form of e fighting not the other way around. There are several variations of Boom and Zoom as well. From being aggressive with quick reverses to being less agressive and repositioning at the top of the zoom to re-evaluate before you attempt another pass. All this is determined by the situation.
Bore and ZZZZZZZZ is more like the Hit n Run that Hartman used is the Eastern front. High speed attacks from blind side then run and leave the area. It situations where life and death are online the line thsi makes sense. In AH this tactic only works when the guy you are attcking is afk, asleep or otherwise engaged. In a 1 v 1 situation it doesnt work. Icons give you away and theres little to now cloud cover and you cant hide in the sun. .5 g break is enough to escape the badguys guns.
So these hit n runs are easily avoidable. In the arena context where life means nothing whats gained by running? When I flew in the main if a guy ran I would pop on my film and later in the fiolm viewer check who it was. I would pop up their stats and 8 out of 10 times their kd was below 1. I think what was the point of him running? In one life events like scenarios Hit'n'Run is a good tactic. In IL2 FB coops at times I probrably run more then arlo in the ct. But in there if you die thats it your done.
No one is saying dont fly from an advantage or dont preserve that advantage. Just dont be a complete ****ing wuss. Unless you are a score potato (which most arent) whats gained from running?
There are tactics that can be used in which a poor turning plane can dominate a fight with out the need to run 25 miles.
Now understand extending and repositioning or regrabing is not whats being "whined" about. We are talking about long distance runners. Guys who will dive in miss their half assed pass and flat run not just out of icon range but miles away. Then they may have find the guts to turn around and do it again. When I see folks do this I call um on it and then go fly elsewhere.
Quit misrepresenting whats being talked about. E fighting is not always high speed dives, you can e fight starting at co alt or even at a disadvatage. 109s are best flown as Energy fighters - using its high climb rate to dictate the engagement. Normal Boom & Zoom tactics with very high speed passes do not suit the 109's style. It is better suited to the style of energy combat where the main objective is to set up a moderate altitude advantage right over or near the target. Then use short sprint dives with moderate closure rates for gun passes. The 109 can then climb back out and loop or climb away as necessary. But even from a co alt situation the 109 can use its acclleration and climb to "e" fight.
A plane like a 109a8 is a great B'N'Z'r using high speed dives and zooms because it turns poorly and bleeds energy easily. Its a great high speed gun platform and maintain control at higher speeds. The quicker you reverse the less time the bad guy has to recover. As don said keeping the pendulum swinging back and forth, up and down, is a great way to keep the pressure on the
bad guy. In areas of high concentrations of enemy, like cherrying picking over a furball, you may want to make a pass and then reposition to re-evaluate and pick another target.
None of that is what this thread is about.
Its about Bore and ZZZZZZZZZ. Bore as in boring and ZZZZZZZ as in "godamn you are putting me to sleep kill me please".
No one is saying bring a jug down to 500ft and turn fight my spit 5. But with the options that one has starting with an alt and speed advantge why would one just run? Its not about "let me kill you" its about lets have a good fight. If you win S! to ya thanks for the fun. If I win again thanks for the good fight.
If someones tries to game me or bore me i will let umm know. Just like we hear run90 run09 runstang ****fire etc... Its all in good fun, I mean if I cant have fun fighting umm a few good taunts will keep me awake until I rtb.
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Ah ok :) This is where I stopped
Well judging by some of the statements and the fact that somehow "e fighting" has been put in same class as run and ho and bore and zoom, the only thing that could make some of these guys happy is if HTC disabled all planes but the spit5..
Guess next time im in a typh and i see a spit5 i'll just blow all my alt and e adv just so i can die honorably in turn fight..
Lotsa folks dunno the difference and you see that in their arguement. From some of your previous comments and finally the one I quoted above it seemed like you were saying B n Z and e fighting were the same thing. When B n Z is a type of e fighting.
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Why do you mention it if you don't care? It's not me who is bored but the guy that started the thread with the original non-whine related point.
back to the point, any dogfighting is a certain degree of BnZ.
Steve, I think it's not so far fetched that HTC will listen and find what would make the game more fun for everyone, and unless the crappy newbies don't want to, if they learn how to fly better, everyone including the old players will be happy in their furballing arena, and we won't have to just sit there trainspotting the next new trend in MA masses movement.
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If you keep the same old players with the same passion for the furball, kept playing against each other, they'll keep improving at everything they try against each other to win the dogfights.
If you drown that into a million newbs with no clues about anything, the old players might eventually (if not right away, not the case here) be a little jaded with the newbs ****ing up their fun, but thats not so much the case; the "old players" actually mostly welcomed fresh cannon fodder, it might still be fun, but nowhere near the blast of before.
- i didnt mean bnz but E fighting in tha post before. Any dogfighting is a certain degree of E fighting for the position you want, killor run or anything.
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well... this is all too complex for me... you see the red plane? go get it and shoot it till the little guy falls out.
see the real high red plane? ignore it unless it comes down and then shoot it untill the little guy falls out.
See the huge group of red planes with no green ones? don't go over there unless you want the attention.
lazs
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Originally posted by Batz
ccvi is saying your 2 kills per hour and .3 kd doesnt mean you "run". We both know that aint true. You see ccvi is asking how do I know you run by looking at those stats. Its easy I saw you do it numerous times.
If you actually see someone running (although at your low flying time in AH lately you probably didn't have the time to run into many runners) you can call him a runner all you want.
If you just read a score of someone who posted on the BBS and then try to argue that he's a runner because of his score, it's completely pointless, because score simply doesn't show running.
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wtg tw9
F4Fs as seen in the main are most likely 90% fm2s. The fm2 is a real fun plane to fly. A lot of folks when there hear "e" fighting assume boom and zoom. While keeping an alt advantage gives you a reserve of "e" its not always "e" fighting.
With more involved e fighting not only are you trying to hold your enrgy (like zooming up) but you are trying to get the bad guy to bleed his.
So like your fight with the f4f the more pressure you keep on him the more hes tries to avoid your guns the more he bleeds. You just need to keep "more" energy then him at this point.
Now with a turner like a spit 5 and fm2 if you do lond extended zooms you give him time to recover and regain what e he lost. If you get too aggressive you may make a mistake.
They key is staying in the rear quarter of the bad guy, behind his 3/9 line.
for example you have a slight e advantage on a zeke in your typh. You wanna make your first gun pass so that you force the zeke to break hard. Instead of going straight up you could yo yo and come back around quickly. But you wanna watch that when you yo yo you dont slip out beyond his 3 /9 or he can turn or roll into you either cutting your angle or getting onto your 6.
To keep from doing this start your yo yo early and dont follow him throw his break.
I am work so I dont have time to draw up some images but maybe I will tonight.
The 3/9 line is wingtip to wingtip on the bad guy. As long as you position your self in his rear quarter he is helpless. Use e conserving manuvers to stay there like yo yos and rolls and try not to pull lead until you have a good probrability in killing him.
But not every guy you attck will just go into e bleeding breaks. They may try to force you to overshoot or conserve their e with rolls etc...... So sometimes extending is all you can do. Nothing wrong with that. But extending from nothing is running :p
But do what works for ya and have fun. Thats all anyone wants
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ccvi as I said those I pointed out as runners I have seen run. The stats reflect what I have seen.
Arlo isnt saying he doesnt run, or atleast he wasnt , he had claimed it was "conservative flying".
Which is fine and good buts its boring.
Arlo knows the most hes heard me say to a runner is Wuss or Run Forest Run.
Its not until he tries to sell me some bs to explain his lameness that anything else gets said.
run walk whatever as long as I aint apart of it.
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It has nothing to do with BnZ... It has everything to do with timid and untrained pilots. No one wants to “die” and thus not get any benefit from at least trying.
I pulled an LA7 out of a furball heading back for friendly territory with fumes and about 200 rounds in my 51. I was rather hoping he would leave me alone since I had neither the fuel nor ammunition to put up the good fight. He gained to the point I had no choice.
Let's go down swiging. I reversed, got the advantage, he ran. I was able to pull parallel with him about 3K distance between us. He must have thought about it for a few seconds then nosed over and went for home.
It was just us, he had all the advantage, and he chose to return to the steamroller. Hell, he even ran me down after 10 miles on the way home.
Grow some stones people and engage! Jebus!
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Here read here
Boom And Zoom Tactics. (Andy Bush)
Part 1
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_024a.html
Part2
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_025a.html
Part3
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_026a.html
Part4
http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_027a.html
See th image blelow (from above article)
See how the attacker yo yos and stays in the rear quarter?
(http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_026a_2.gif)
This what can happen if you get out in front of the 3/9
(http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_024a_8.gif)
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one more from above linked interview
(http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_027a_24.gif)
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My first post in about a year (I think)...
1st off, AH is not dead. There are more players here now than there ever were.
2nd, the art of ACM is not dead, it is just in hibernation. If you up in a plane made before summer of '44 you have virtually NO chance of escape unless you are on the overly large maps or you get lucky enough to slip out of the gangbang. So you don't see them (early war planes) much.
Since the beta days there were turning planes whining about runstangs.
There will always be those who try for k/d over k/t and vice versa.
It is nearly impossible to find a 1v1 when there are ~500 people online. At least if it starts out that way it wont stay 1v1 to completion unless the pilots are mismatched since hordes of La7/spit9/nikis will invariably show up at 20K.
There will always be folks who refuse to fight the way you want them to. Find a way to beat them at their game or find another target. If they only want to run they are not much of a threat. When was the last time a prop fighter (non newbie) was killed by a 262 he saw coming? Sure they are annoying but so are the complaints.
___________________
What I think Urchin (hiya bro!) has struck a chord with is those who refuse to engage unless it is a 5v1 in their favor. Even when they have all the advantages. Or those who will fly on past a teamate in trouble en route to a vulch session up ahead.
The other thing (which may be a partial cause of the situation I just mentioned) is that the art of the drag-and-bag is being lost. I cannot think of how many times I have been asked for help and come in hot to clear a countrymate only to have him break towards me. AAARRRGGHHH!!!
As far as countries that display various skill levels or tactics? Hogwash! They all have the same things going on. Our squad has been rotating countries for years. All countries have aces, all have dweebs, all have newbies, none of them regularly call 6, and they all suck equally:D
BTW...I vote for kweassa's perk plan. Of course getting 15-20 perkies in a hour should not be too hard unless you are part of the 51D/La7/spit9/N1K2 hordes.
_____________________
Edbert (mediocre pilot) out
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Originally posted by Don
I also think this may be attributed to the lack of a coherent training component in the game. People just seem to want to log on and get kills.
:D
BINGO!!!
Personally, I think this is one of the major (if not the major) reason why we see a lot of these things in the MA.
Ack-Ack
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Originally posted by rshubert
The latest furballer whines:
"BnZ tactics aren't good ACM, and bore me."
No one said BnZ isn't a good or valid tactic. The complaint are those that think BnZ means one pass and then zooming for home. This is not BnZ, no matter how those of you think it is. BnZ is not about making one pass and then hauling bellybutton for the nearest ack or friendly, nor is it 'conservative' or 'smart' flying like some of you think running is.
Ack-Ack
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*chuckle*
I guarantee you if I'm not turning around for another pass it's because of one of the following:
- Plane/pilot damage recieved in the initial pass (whether we merged head on or whether he managed to maneuver for a snapshot in passing).
- My opponent going ninety to nothin' to catch me and keeping my seperation to a minimum.
- My opponent managed to catch me and shoot me down.
In the first case I'll rtb ... if possible. And if my opponent catches me or somebody else does (as happens as often as not) - oh well.
In the second, I'll turn around once there's at least 1-2k of seperation (depending on the other plane involved) ... unless my opponent picked up reinforcements on the way. In which case I'll look for options to even the odds (or better yet, give me some sort of advantage). Whether it be nearby friendlies, ack, some cloud cover, a fleet, or just getting myself out of icon range and looking for a way to reposition, doesn't matter.
In the third, you can bet your diaper I scissored, barrel rolled, split essed, immeled (double immel if energy allows) and did whatever I could to shake ... and *ShruG* it didn't work. Usually because my opponent was not only skilled but had a plane that was both fast and more maneuverable than mine (or I managed to blow some e and my opponent's plane had better acceleration and some punch).
In no case will I whine or carry on as much as my opponent usually does ... though I may blow him a kiss if it looks like he's about to pop a vein. ;)
Anyone who has a problem with that ... has problems. :D
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My conclussion, we have:
boom and runners: better ignore them, they are not a danger and they are not a target.
Turn'n burners: You can ignore them or kill them, as easy the first as the second. They are mostly target fixated and are only a relative danger for their fixated targets, usually, other turn'n burners. Usually they cant dictate any fight at all.
Boon'n zoomers: They are not easy targets and they are the real danger. Usually they try to keep several enemies under control at the same time. Trying to kill them all one by one while no letting the rest to escape. Trying to kill them may be as boring as trying to catch at boom and runner, because, if well done, they'll be out of your guns by speed, range, alt or E while giving you no chance at all to flee. These are not target fixated, and they have always (or try to have) an open escape way.
E fighting, vertical fighting, etc are covered by turn'n burners and boom'n zoomers, but their respective goals are very different ones.
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You forgot to post Kills/Time so we could identify you as a runner.... :p
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Originally posted by ccvi
You forgot to post Kills/Time so we could identify you as a runner.... :p
k/t, actually does help one get a good idea of how one flies... if you see a fairly low k/t that means one of several things:
a) you're an alt monkey who spends a lot of time getting to alt.
b) you're a timid player - one who probbaly runs a lot.
c) you're one of them people who think K/D is *the* measure of skill.
low k/t high k/d low k/s - alt monkey boom and zoomer who gets 1-2 kills and runs home to land them because "live at all costs" is how the real aces flew.
low k/t low k/d low k/s timid alt monkey who can't fly fer chit, often runs at the slightest hint of risk and runs hom eimmediately upon getting the rare 1 kill.
low to med k/t high k/d high k/s - better than even chances it's a lame altmonkey who vulches(when totally safe)/cherry picker/gangbanger who lets others takes risks and steals kills from those working hard - possesses crafty survival SA, but in general is at a loss when away from a safe horde - runs home when huge advantage dissipates to merely big advantage.
you can do something like this to mock the quakers if you want. :D
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Originally posted by TW9
D. U play point and spent most of your time in ftrs setting up kills for squadies.. (ever wing w/ Crescent?)
let me qualify this whole k/t thing with, maps and times one flys can have an influence on it.
E. U go afk alot while inflight..
F. U go on attack runs forgetting to score them as fighter
D. stop being a sucker... make *them* work for thier kills. :)
E. which translates to being an inadvertent alt-monkey.
F. which show up on your attack stats. none ever just looks at fighter scores without also eyeballing and mentally figuring out how your attack scores figure into things.
i don't think in general you're a runner type TW... it's really hard to generically classify specific people based on cold hard stats - there are always exceptions and mis-casts.... but.... but.... in general it does give you an idea of how ones flies, time-wise, not necessarily how well one can actually fight.
the bottom line really, is that we all know who is who and what is what after a time and fashion, this stats flaming is merely fun to troll and tweak others with.
i don't care how or what one flys, i just want to at least see some decent abilities to handle oneself when the need arises. those who never strive to at least do the utmost best they can are cheating themselves and others out of even more fun.
no one really dies in the game... stats only impress those who know no better, and eventually most people do know better unless they leave before that point.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Grow some stones people and engage! Jebus!
ROFL! A member of 13th TAS, instructing others on how they should fly, how they should spend their $14.95/month? Muhahahaha! I can see you're struggling. Don't worry - help is at hand. Mr. Toad has a plethora of remedies for those pilots who find that the rest of the arena won't fly "their way". Calling Dr. Toad...
Good one, Zip!
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>>Admittingly, im am confident in fighting like this but still make the mistake of being over-agressive and augering when trying to force a shot on a low f4f type plane.. Which always p's me off because i'd do such a good job of making him milk its e.. <<
TW9:
You just described an aspect of your flying which needs work :) You are aware, and therefore, you are halfway there.
Aggressiveness is good too, but patience is more valuable.
For example, Shane is viewed by some as being a loud mouth. I submit that he is not, he is cagey, and taunts people while he uses his patience to gain advantages. I remember him from AW and, he has improved his game immensly from those days.
The E style is ecclectic and makes use of various tactics, but it is not turn fighting. The type of a/c used are the more powerful ones that can get out of its own way. An F4F is slow but, capable of turning on a dime...slowly. Let it turn, and meanwhile you use a vertical turn (high yo-yo) and get back down after it; you will eventually shoot it down.
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>>i'll still shoot you anyway, especially if you used it all up spraying at me! <<
Hehe, and I would expect nothing less from you ;)
But, I rarely use up all of my ammo, and I gave up the ole spray and pray a long time ago :)
One thing is for sure, I will judge my approach to a smoking spitty coming directly at me, with friendlies calling out over CH2 that, he shot the nmez engine out, and it's his kill.:(
It takes all kinds of dweebs nme or friendly.
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>>QUIT whining about head-ons. Every one here knows at least two methods to avoid a head-on. If you don't like 'em, avoid 'em. If you get your panties in a wad and feel the need to shoot at the guy, take your medicine.<<
Hmmph! Sounds like a big fat juicy rationalization to me.
Ho dweebs are HO dweebs. Calling a thing as it is, isn't a whine, it's a statement of fact. It aint gonna ruin my enjoyment of the game; just makes me kill em at their own game. I'd rather let them do the whining as they fall helplessly smoking to the virtual ground. If you happen to be one of em, then when it happens to you from my guns, you will know I have nothing but disdain for your chosen method of fighting. :D
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>>Here read here
Boom And Zoom Tactics.<<
Hehe, yer doin a damned fine job here Batz.
This is the way (IMO) a thread like this ought to go;)
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>>Eventually, these newbs are going to get it and begin to realize<<
TW9:
I hear what yer saying but.... the new guys "getting it" won't happen by some miracle or by osmosis. Or, if it does, they have a lot more determination to hang in there.
Training will help cut out some of the unnecessary trail and error and get them to realization quicker.
I know that this is why many organized squads hold bi weekly or monthly squad training sessions.
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Wtg Tw9!!!
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>>He owned me of course the rest of the way.. <<
Did you look at the films afterward? When you do, notice how the opposing a/c will dip its nose before the merge, or in specific a/c types the pilit must do certain things after a pass or merge to keep the advantage; alt isn't the only important thing. And, as in real life combat, the pilit who see's the nme first has an advantage. Its when you trade alt for E that gets tricky. For example, the La's will zoom past and do a very fast zoom climb but, that will only last a short while; the La's bleed E very quickly in the vertical; they will dive down after a short while a try to reacquire you. A good pilit will be looking for you as he is zoom climbing, and do everything he can to keep you in his view range until he makes his next move. So, knowing this, you get your plane in a position to counter that move; it will prolly result in a series of scissors moves between the two of you.
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Some of the guys that have fought me (usually 2+vs1, me being the 1) know that I dont run. The only time i try to disengage is when I lose an aileron or elevator, and see friendlies, then I drag. Other than that, I'm balls to the wall in the fight until one of us is hitting silk or dirt.
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Originally posted by Don
>>QUIT whining about head-ons. Every one here knows at least two methods to avoid a head-on. If you don't like 'em, avoid 'em. If you get your panties in a wad and feel the need to shoot at the guy, take your medicine.<<
Hmmph! Sounds like a big fat juicy rationalization to me.
Ho dweebs are HO dweebs. Calling a thing as it is, isn't a whine, it's a statement of fact. It aint gonna ruin my enjoyment of the game; just makes me kill em at their own game. I'd rather let them do the whining as they fall helplessly smoking to the virtual ground. If you happen to be one of em, then when it happens to you from my guns, you will know I have nothing but disdain for your chosen method of fighting. :D
I don't EVER go looking for a head on, since I lose much more than half of them. I think (but this is just a theory, mind) that a fast connection has a disadvantage over a slow one in combat--I see warping, he doesn't.
It's still a valid tactic, if you are willing to take the considerable risk. It's about the only tactic a heavy Jabo can use without dropping ord. It's also very easy to avoid, if you are willing to forego taking a shot. Just barrel roll. They can't hit you. Or go for horizontal or vertical separation prior to the merge. No HO.
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Heck, I'll turn fight anybody in anything. I'm certainly not above knife fightin a Spit or Zeke, while I'm in a Pony. So I die alot. BFD. Like th man said: "It's a video game." But really good fights, 1 on 1 or 2, are very rare, seems to me. I guess that's why I die so much: I get so imaptient after searching high and low for a good dogfight, and I don't mean furballs, that I end up tanglin' with 5 or more enemies cuz that's about th best I can do. That's why I quit AH for th next year or so and show up in H2H once in a while. But I keep lookin in on th boards hopin for some encouraging news.
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Originally posted by TW9
I know you're kidding but i went and looked anyways... Since i wont dare go scanning through all those freaking tours again, here's the last 2.. I dont know what bearing this has or if it classifies me as a runner or not but here ya go..
Tour 39 Kills / Hour 4.176
Tour 38 Kills / Hour 5.508
(http://www.tedwilliams.com/_data/_images/milwar_ww2_pic2.jpg)
Those are tours you had a K/D > 1. That doesn't compare to those stats that Batz and now Shane claim to be runners.
Let's have a look at earlier tours:
34: K/D 0.47992, K/hr 2.844
35: K/D 0.41808, K/hr 2.304
According to Batz' theorie those stats prove that you have been doing lots and lots of running. Have you?
Batz(Wotan) himself has scores that according to his own theory show that he started as a complete runner dweeb (beta scores homepage currently shows server not found):
Tour 12: K/hr 3.24
Tour 13: K/hr 2.52
Tour 14: K/hr 2.16
And he is running more and more with each tour :eek: :p
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ccvi and his idiot euro math again. Stats simple back up and confirm what I observe with my own eyes.
You make some many assumption to get find "fights per hour" that no one can take it seriously. You are idiot and have been corrected several folks already. Theres no standard flight between fights or standard time for which a fight takes place. Take killing bombers. 3 kils can be made in 30 sec. But say its an alt monkey bomber and it took you 35 min to catch him and the rest of the hour to rtb, replane or respawn. Fights per hour cant account for that.
Theres no way fro youy to show fights per hour without a bunch of guessing. So quit trying.
If a guy has 12 kills per hour and a kd of 12 he could have fought way more the just 12 fights. If he had a fight every 2 min thats 30 fights. He doesnt have die or get a kill every time.
A guy with 2 kills per hour and a kd of .5 can have fought as little as 5 fights an hour. In 4 fights he dies 1 fight he landed 2 kills.
I can maniplulate the numbers just as easy as you can. But theres other "evidence". Witnesses.
So stfu with your euro math.
As Gruen and laz have both said a lo kd and a lo k/t you suck and arent fighting.
Yeah right tardlo, you dont run :rolleyes:
Now why would you lie about that when we both know thats just not true?
You ran beyond way beyond icon range a couple times I saw ya. Now I suspect you are know going to tell me because you knew it was me and just for for laughs you ran to a get a response, right?
You certainly didnt scissor, yo yo or even turn when I saw ya. Wells thats not true a few times you made a piss poor gun pass and I was able to roll behind ya and land enough hits to kill ya so I guess you dont always run.
I know you remember Brady, Drunky and I fighting you guys by 16? Are you telling me I just made it up that you ran? And you think Brady and drunky didnt see the same thing I did?
Before you argued about "conservative flying" and choosing not to turn fight" etc.......
Nows the arguement is you dont run? Blah, lying is onething but you are becoming patholigical. You know you are a runner, I know you are a runner, others know it as well.
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I think that is enough of this. How many times does someone have to hit thier head against a wall before realizing it does not feel good?