Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: gatt on June 20, 2000, 01:13:00 PM

Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 20, 2000, 01:13:00 PM
This late afternoon (GMT+1) I eventually realized how a very-late war plane set affect dogfighting styles in AH.

Today I clashed with some very good pilots and with plain dweebs as well. Which planes were they in? No, no Focke Wulf or F4U-1C ... they were in P-38L's, N1K2's and Spitfires. 4 big cannons or Hispano armed in any case. Most of the people in those wonderful kites go HO. Even if they are in a/c with excellent maneuverability. Even when they have alt/E advantage.

During the last 3 TOD, during about 900 missions, I accepted one or two HO only.

And no, the problem is not that they shoot me down. I usually avoid 90% of the HO's and I usually shoot them down, even if I'm an average pilot. The problem is the crappy dogfight that usually follows. Particularly against N1K2's and Spitfires. You try to avoid their nose, they try to ram you HO with their bullets.

Sorry for the whining but today I'm really pissed off. I really hope that something will change in future realeases, dont ask me what ... maybe cannons, maybe the front-end HO system ... dunno ...  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

GATT
(taking a deeeep breath)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Luckyone on June 20, 2000, 01:42:00 PM
Deeep breath, one, two, three, that is weird. What do you think causes that? HO's I mean. I'd think run like heck, But no...they are all supermen and very brave. I should just hate them all... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
LOL I can't! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Citabria on June 20, 2000, 01:48:00 PM
hehe Gatt this game just pisses me off too  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

I always avoid shooting head on if the other guy is shooting but if they are trying to avoid the head on and I have a firing solution on em I ussually take it.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on June 20, 2000, 01:49:00 PM
Gatt, I fly Niki a lot, and that's funny because I always avoid the HO (I suck at it hehehe).

As I recommand to my teamtes, if you don't want to die in a HO, avoid them. HO is a roll of dice, ranging from both survived to all died.

Don't whine after them, because you need to be two to HO  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

BTW, if one day you encounter a Niki that avoids HO on first pass, u will know u are fighting the Niki Devil  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Salute gatt.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 20, 2000, 02:19:00 PM
Frenchy,

this is an old story. You dont have to be two. One idiot is enuff (as always).  Why? I recognize an HOer when hes far away. You see their nose pointing at you, they dont search for any lateral/vertical separation.

Then you have to nose down .. he noses down as well to fire at you ... they usually point their nose so down that ... you know what I mean ...  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

My squad has the order to avoid any HO. In our radio comms (RogerWilco) you can often hear: "avoid that ... hes an HOer, watch out that one .... hes coming only HO!" IMO, HOers are the dweebest kind of pilots around. And the cannons we have in the arena only make things worst.

And again, I dont talk about Focke-Wulf and F4U-1C pilots, they often cant do anything else ....
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Fury on June 20, 2000, 02:30:00 PM
At the risk of being flamed into the bowels of ****, the above story is a perfect example of why it takes two people to HO.

Fury

(It's physically impossible for an HO unless *both* planes are pointed at each other).
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 20, 2000, 02:34:00 PM

Ok Fury,
now you can teach us what you do when you see a fighter pointing at you without searching any separation. I'm here, tell me.
Ah, and read again what I wrote above. Looks like you are one of them ....
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Nath-BDP on June 20, 2000, 02:57:00 PM
I am HO master, just ask Torquila.

thought I'd mention that... ;p
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Nash on June 20, 2000, 03:07:00 PM
Well yah, HO's generally tend to be a dweebish thing to do in the initial merge. But it doesn't seem like a problem for you as you say, you avoid 90% of them. The HO'er is left with terrible angles from which to pursue the fight.

But you say "The problem is the crappy dogfight that usually follows. Particularly against N1K2's and Spitfires. You try to avoid their nose, they try to ram you HO with their bullets."

Now the thing is... in order to shoot someone down, ya gotsta be pointin' yer nose at the other plane. Right?

Since you single out the Spits and Niki's, I'm assuming you were in an energy fighter. Of course the best option for you is to engage nose-tail, where turn rate plays in your favour. You will eventually catch the slower plane.

Now - being in an spit or niki, your advantage is the smaller turn radius. You want to be pressing a nose-nose fight. In other words, you want to turn inside and look for a snap shot while forcing the overshoot. This is what probably is looking like HO's to you.

Thing is... that's the smartest thing for a turnfighter to do when a faster plane is trying to saddle up. It's hardly dweebish, and it's not something to get pissed about. You have other options as an E fighter...they just require more patience. I don't think you really have a right to complain about this style of fighting... when a) it's the best option for the the other plane and b) you don't have to engage on those terms.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 20, 2000, 03:19:00 PM
Fury,
sorry for the harsch words.

Nash,
I partially agree. I fly only the C.205V and I usually E-fight.

Thanks GOD 1.03 is out, the right day. Sorry again for the whining. HOers will ever exist, too bad for them dweebs. I'll hunt them, both in the arena and on channel 1  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Fury on June 20, 2000, 03:28:00 PM
gatt,

I can assure you, no offense taken here; I've heard much worse in my time  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Since 1.03 is out we've all got better things to do now   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

And it may very well be that I have a very loose definition of what an HO is.

Fury
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: lazs on June 20, 2000, 04:00:00 PM
gatt... it is not your imagination... the slow gameplay and high leathiality of AH contribute to HO's.   Ho's are a viable tactic in a lot of cases but they are only one tactic.   AH has a few viable tactics so the HO becomes more attractive.   Certainly you lose the advantage in most cases but the atraction for a quick kill is strong.   Any lingering or manouvering in AH is risky.
lazs  
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: ygsmilo on June 20, 2000, 04:16:00 PM
Lazs

Better get out your copy of Shaw and read about front quarter aspect deflection shooting.



------------------
Milo

JG 2
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Daff on June 20, 2000, 04:52:00 PM
That's just about the silliest post you've ever written, Lazs...
Remember the F4U-4B in the WB with the 4 cannons?. The Pre-2.6 190?, 2.6 Spitfire?, 2.75 LW planes?.
Anytime a plane have a significant amount of firepower, you'll get HO's...in both sim, regardless of maneuverbility.

Daff

------------------
CO, 56th Fighter Group
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: flakbait on June 20, 2000, 05:18:00 PM
Lazs, I've played WB for only a year and I've come up with some unreal tactics. AH is simply WB in my mind; another flight sim. This means you can pull just about anything, provided it works and you don't get killed. After all, I am the same guy who wrote "that" web page by flying only in offline mode. Yeah, I've flown online; for all of 3 hours during a real free bug hunt. Here I've flown online during the BETA only; I'm too broke most of the time to afford paying HT (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Anyhoo, check out what I've done in WB here [yes, another shameless plug]: http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6 (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)


Flakbait
"Disorder came from order, fear came from courage, weakness came from strength."
Sun Tzu: The Art of War
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Hangtime on June 20, 2000, 07:08:00 PM
Nath-BDP.. You da HO Master?

..my sista's HO and her pimp looks nuthin like you...

 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Hang
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: cokerr on June 20, 2000, 08:14:00 PM
I'll take an HO when ever the opportunity presents itself. Ya dont like it pay my $30.00 bucks a month and I will fly like you like  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
coker
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Wardog on June 20, 2000, 09:37:00 PM
Gatt

I fly p51 90% of the time, and 98% of the 205s i come across go for the HO!!

So i would drop it right now..

I gladly HO anyone who wants to HO me..

Dog out....
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Fariz on June 20, 2000, 10:14:00 PM
HO is a good thing if used right. Sometime it is an only opportunity. I won several 1vs4 level fights only due to the proper use of HO and some luck. Till last few days I had about 90% win ratio in a HO. You just need to feel the game and other planes e, if he is unstable you have a very good chance for a HO.

Still if you do not like them or fly not a cannon bird or whatever -- avoid them.

I see no point to complain, HO is a mutial choise, those who try HO in a level merge are usually an easy meat.

Fariz
XII Legion.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 12:58:00 AM
Wardog, you probably came across guys of 1^Gruppo Caccia and/or some other dweeb. Our squad never goes HO, its one of our ROE.

Daff, I agree with you 100% (maybe its the first time  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).

Fariz, Cokerr ... everyone is free to choose his preferred tecnique. Looks like most of AH people choose HO's (I mean firing during HO's) during the merge, even if the other guy nose down to zoom below. Thats what make the difference between a good pilot and an HOer.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: busc on June 21, 2000, 06:05:00 AM
Dear gatt,
         
I VE TO CHALLENGE U TO DUEL, if u dont accept, well its confirmed tht u are just a bla-bla dweeb.

U said we are HO dweebs, obviously thats not true, many of our veteran pilots dont need any HO stuff to kill theyr opponents and generally, considering our historical-minded approach to this game, we avoid HOs,  as they wer actually very rarely used in combat during ww2,furthermore we cant use too much HO because we usually fly mc205.
Theres only one last possibility, one time i shot down one of u guyz (ill say no names) wich cried loudly on ch1 tht i killed him on HO, the truth was different...He engaged with alt 6, misjudged my E state after i started my usual gentle split and i managed to zoom in his dive, then i had a quick (and,honestly lucky, considering my aim) snapshot on  first scissors cut after zoom merge.
I got him with an almst two thirds angle and had his wing in half plain view when shooted---> SO PROLLY, SPEAKIN IN FITER-SIM SLANG-----> WERE NOT HO DWEEBS,BUT U ARE SORRY LOSERS.  
            cheers, Busc
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 07:30:00 AM
Busc,

dont write in CAPS, I can hear you. In my post there was nothing offensive. If you took offence, I apologize. Anyway, from what you have written I understand there is something personal when we fight each other. Not for me. So calm down.

Yes our fighting styles are different indeed, and some of us dont like each other, but everyone here is free to fly and fight the way he prefers.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Gubba on June 21, 2000, 08:12:00 AM
I'm very new to this. I am not a pilot. Since I have 2 weeks free I fly around and see how things work. Never knew HO was a bad thing. Didn't know until this morning what "E" was. At the end of my 2 weeks I will probably still not know how to use it. What I'm getting at is that IMHO, unless you are a pilot, or have a LOT of experience with flight sims, you will be like me and try whatever works before you flip over onto the ground *poof dead* with no one else around. I do that alot. I'm told it's torque (not Torque, I never see him, I just vaporize when I'm near him...kidding....been reading the posts you know...) I only have 2 weeks, and the learning curve is high, I do not wish to waste time in 'training' and of the little time I have at night I like the MA, not offline to practice. Maybe at the end of 2 weeks I will practice, because I cannot play online free anymore.

If you're going to leave the game open to any and all comers (like me, no experience)in an attempt to drum up a good solid customer base, you're going to have to expect these manoevers from us newbies. End of story. Perhaps change our ICON so it shows were dangerous even to our own side...then you'll keep safe...LOL

...nothing funnier than attacking an ack in my 109 only to follow my egg right into the ground...this doesn't happen very often anymore, but that's the manoever you'll see from newbies on 2 week trial...what's it matter, there's really no point to the game other than forcing reset...and I'm not trying to be a salamander or anything, but I just see people whining about newbies and the HO, and that they should go "train"...perhaps there should be a short disclaimer before downloading the game that "...unless you know what you're doing or enjoy being criticized by people because you fly terrible..."

Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: JEK on June 21, 2000, 08:27:00 AM
Aooooooo that what you say!!! propio you speak not to make HO if you want place filmato where propio you attack to me in HO and a wing detaches me If pits in you I would count until 10,000,000 of times before speaking However HO uses itself when it serves is I I do not have fear to face HO to time I win to times I lose, if the thing does not appeal to to you is to 30kft and nobody of disturbs in AH or uses of saidwindwr to search the heat or the bombba atomic you make po. Pear tree leaves strae the 1°gr of what ago it does not have to interest to you and if you want to provoke why you do not have null to make we are all to aspettarti VATITC here I DRAGO
Version ITALIAN
Aooooooo che cosa dici!!!
propio tu parli di non fare HO se vuoi ti posto un filmato dove propio tu mi attacchi in HO e mi stacchi un ala
Se fossi in te conterei fino a 10.000.000 di volte prima di parlare
Comunque HO si usa quando serve c'è io non ho paura ad affrontare HO a volta vinco a volte perdo,se la cosa non ti piace stai a 30kft e nessuno di disturba in AH oppure usa dei saidwindwr a ricerca calore o la bombba atomica fai un po tu.
Pero lascia strae il 1°gr di quello che fa non ti deve interessare e se vuoi provocare perchè non hai nulla da fare siamo qui tutti ad aspettarti
VATITC
DRAGO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: -lazs- on June 21, 2000, 08:35:00 AM
daff.. All else being equal... The less acm wiggle room you have and the higher the leathiality you have the more blatant HO's you will have.  What is silly about that?   Certainly, the more potent gunned planes will be the biggest offenders but I stand by what i said... It is much more tempting to HO when lingering or losing any amount of E will get you killed.  Also, the frustrated newbie will be more likely to resort to HO's if the leathiality is generally higher..  Now, what about that don't you agree with?
lazs
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 08:48:00 AM
Drago,
I'm in doubt as to which school you should go. No, I'm sure you should go to both: first italian, then english. Your writing is poor as your flying.
If its not enuff e-mail me, as we are now off-topic here. I make apologies to all non italian readers.

<EDIT>
ah, while my last posts were in no way offensive for the 1^Gruppo, this one is offensive.

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 06-21-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: TinkyWinky on June 21, 2000, 09:07:00 AM
Italians are historically passionate, please give each other a hug and make up!

Tinky Winky loves you both!

------------------
EH-OHHHHH! BIG HUG!
 (http://teletinky.tripod.com/tinkyanim1.gif)
Tinky Winky has something in his bag for you!

[This message has been edited by TinkyWinky (edited 06-21-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Nash on June 21, 2000, 09:31:00 AM
I disagree completely with you TinkyWinkthing... this is a riot  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Lampo on June 21, 2000, 09:53:00 AM
Gatt,
next time you'll talk about 1st gruppo caccia asso di bastoni, wash your mouth before.
We do not fly in "a safe way" (your words, not mine) and accept every kind of dogfight, HO included if necessary.
.squelch gatt

Lampo

 (http://lampox.supereva.it/109k.jpg)

------------------
Primo Gruppo Caccia
-=Asso Di Bastoni=-
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: MANDOBLE on June 21, 2000, 10:04:00 AM
Drago, much more clear the italian version   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)


[This message has been edited by MANDOBLE (edited 06-21-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: JEK on June 21, 2000, 10:23:00 AM
Sorry I use translate automaic, I I do not speak English well excused for the writing errors hello I DRAGO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)

---------------------------------
ps:Gatt VATITC (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 10:54:00 AM
Lampo,
"Safe way"?, I think exactly the opposite.
And look, the 2^Gruppo Caccia "Diavoli Rossi" (Red Devils) was much better than 1^Gruppo Caccia in the real thing, so better not to show their coat of arms as a signature.

Mandoble,
for italian guys is much more clear the english version, go figure ...
 

Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Daff on June 21, 2000, 11:34:00 AM
Lazs, it's very very simple:
More firepower/Lethality = more HO's regardless of maneuverbility.

Daff


------------------
CO, 56th Fighter Group
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: JEK on June 21, 2000, 12:09:00 PM
Gatt

meglio essere ingnoranti e scopare,che essere colti e farsi delle pugnette.

E se l'intelligenza si misura in virgole e punti e puntie virgole eccole,,,,,,,;;;;;......,,,,,,,,,::::::;;;;;;.........................
visto che chi ti conosce sei brutto da far paura
 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

translate gents altavista.com

con questo chiudo le mie reply
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Hazed on June 21, 2000, 12:21:00 PM
Manfred von richthoffen stated in his rules of air to air engagement that if an enemy is attacking always try to meet the attack.This assumes that you are unable to outrun your enemy.this means ho  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
IMHO HO's are a legitimate tactic in fact its exactly the way the LW used to attack B17's so please if you dont like Ho's just try to avoid them and stop moaning...its getting boring.i will always try to manouver onto my enemys 6 and if i cant i will HO if i have to
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Lucchini on June 21, 2000, 12:22:00 PM
Gatt,
This the copy of one of your posts:

I dont care for me, I'm used to fly in a conservative way. I care for average (and less than) players. I'm afraid they'll loose the interest to play in an elite-arena, where they'll never have enuff time to learn how to survive against late war monsters.

Heck, we survive flyin the C.205 against sissy-fires and cannon-hogs!

P.S.: now I want to see all those "I dont give a damn of the score" guys

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 05-18-2000).]

I really don't know, but I think the difference between safe and conservative is not so big.
Anyway I don't care about your way of flying.
I'd want u to remember that not all of us can speak or write english as u can but everyone of us has the same right to write his opinions in this BBS in the best way he can!
So pls don't attack Drago for his way of writing but only for his opinions!
The words u wrote about school are not fair and really offensive: if u were lucky to have the opportunity to study don't deride people not as lucky as u.

<S>

Lucchini
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: busc on June 21, 2000, 12:49:00 PM

           Its true, Drago cant properly speak english, but it's also true that u speak too much and cant control yourself.

And will not be of great use for u now doing the poor victim and the good guy, because u have been not smart enough to play this role...


Facts:

1st-  U wrote :"In my post there was nothing offensive. If you took offence, I apologize."

Dont try to play this game, it's pathetic, u started insultin us in here without havin any reason to do it.......

I m  rememberin  u how tht happened-->wardog wrote:
                                                    "I fly p51 90% of the time, and 98% of the 205s i come across go for the HO!!"
 
u replied: "Wardog, you probably came across guys of 1^Gruppo Caccia and/or some other dweeb."

 There was no reason to put urself in such a situation,  but u did: because  u cant control urself, because you, and not me, have "somethin  personal" against us.

Moreover also goin on insultin us and losin control durin our MA conversation was prolly not a great idea (dont do the pathetic try of denying that u did this, ive obviously recorded it).

2nd-  I told u clearly tht the reason cause i decided to duel u was that i wanted u to rethink what u wrote bout us being dweebs, dont be pathetic, sayin u dont want o duel cause its somethin personal, the sad truth  is that u refused to duel because ur Hypertrophic ego cant accept the fact that im far better than u in ACMs, even if u have greater experience than mine in here and in WB.

And there is a precise reason because  i am better than u in duellin, i spent and im still spendin the majority of my time in AH learnin ACM and duellin in trainin and special events arenas, while u "fightin style" is usually just wonderin in the MA in search for only one thing, kills....I often saw u  vulchin and alt-monkeying,  I rarely saw u stayin in a fight when not in advantage, and the few times i had the occasion to fight vs u i saw u are a mediocre pilot just like I am, but  less skillful in dogfights... Sometimes try to descent from ur ego, and have a real fight, if u fight with honour and skill this will give u far more satisfaction than talkin so much and insultin around....Moreover, a guy fightin like u do is not the right one to spread worldwide his sermons against HOs.

PS Sorry for "SHOUTING"  (come on dont do the popsicle bro, some caps cant really damage u, i only used em to underline some words, i will use bold thext next time).

PPS Per gatt---> Inizialmente avevo deciso di non replicare alle tue offese più gravi e squallide, quelle fatte a drago sia in questa sede che altrove.
Parlo ovviamente di certe "ignoranze" (e non correggermi il plurale, maestrina, ha un significato ben preciso)che gli hai attribuito...Il tuo e' un atteggiamento che odio, tipico di un retaggio che grazie a dio si sta' dissolvendo, chi ti credi di essere?
Giusto perchè hai fatto un liceo o lettere all'universita'  e hai qualche granello di cultura e proprieta di linguaggio credi di poter dare dell'ignorante a chiunque con quel fare sprezzante che ti contraddistingue?

Non sei piu' colto di  Drago, non illuderti.
 Drago non ha bisogno di tornare a scuola, a scuola a studiato il francese, ed oggi è un professionista alto livello, con una notevole cultura tecnica e scientifica, tu forse sai esprimerti benino in italiano , beh, lui conosce bene il linguaggio macchina dei computer...

..Ho letto alcuni dei tuoi articoli, perchè interessato all'argomento e non certo perchè ammaliato dalla tua penna...Non insultare alla cieca gente in gamba, non sei nessuno, e non cercare di pararti il culetto giocando a fare il grande giornalista, Montanelli, un altro grande arrogante se lo è sempre potuto  permettere perchè scriveva eccezionalmente bene, cosa che onestamente, secondo il mio parere tu non fai....
Io so' che  non sei un giornalista professionista, che non sei nemmeno un pubblicista, in sostanza non sei nessuno, quindi non venirci ad insegnare l'italiano che ti fai solo mandare a quel paese...
Oltretutto queste cose hanno un solo,cattivo, effeto..I rapporti tra i nostri due gruppi , che stavano lentamente rilassandosi, si saranno di certo di nuovo super-inaciditi dupo le tue provocazioni . Detto in parole povere, tutto sto casino è solo colpa tua e della tua mancanza di autocontrollo; dubito della tua capacità di giudizio, e cioè che tu sia capace ora di acquisire la volontà di creare un atmosfera diversa, ma parte di me lo spera.
           Detto quel che era doveroso dire, i miei saluti,
                             Busc      
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 01:02:00 PM
Lucchini,
yours is the first polite post I see from one of your squad. And it deserves a nice reply.

I *do* believe that our squads, generally speaking, have two different styles of fighting. There is nothing wrong in it. We *try* to fly and fight our C.205V as if we had 109G-6. From what I've seen in the MA during our sporadic clashes, I *think* that you rely more on the maneuvering characteristics of your Veltro's, from the beginning of the fight. If I'm not wrong you fly at medium-low alt even in multi-bandits areas (but I can be wrong).

So, we are used to approach operation areas at high alt (some 23-24K, where our C.205 have max speed), then we use Hit&Climb tecniques. When the dogfight gets too low, we try to disengage (and regain alt) or (if we cant do anything else) use the quite good turning ability of the C.205 to shoot down the biggest/higher threats. This style maybe be a lil' boring and some way opportunistic, but teaches well how E-management is important. We try to stress E-management from the very first day of the training.

As far as Mr Drago is concerned, plz tell him to stop his show, and I'll stop to slam him and his way of writing. And plz tell again Busc (I did in MA) that I usually play (challenge, that is) with guys I like. Enuff said.

As you can see I made my real apologies for any offense your group could have taken. For me its enuff to deserve polite posts.
 
<S> to you Lucchini
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: busc on June 21, 2000, 01:02:00 PM
si lo so che so si scrive senza accento, almeno lo so adesso  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)...ho appena controllato sul vocabolario....quindi non fare il rompiballe sull argomento
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 01:30:00 PM

Man, I'm really happy to be Knight and to be able (sometimes) to shoot down some big mouths  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Busc, this is an international forum. Be kind, post in english or move this thread away from here.

I'm not more cultured than Drago, but the more I read his and yours posts, the more I think so.

And if you dont like my reviews and articles on Virtual magazine, dont read them and save money. Then, ask Drago to write something about on-line sims. Lets see.

 
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Naso on June 21, 2000, 01:31:00 PM
Escuse me, my english friends, but i have to write in italian to be as clear as possible  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

busc, lampo, drago, lucchini...

Per quel che mi riguarda, non ho niente contro nessuno di voi e alcun altro componente del primo gruppo, anzi, con molti di voi ho passato dei divertenti momenti sul newsgroup ed altrettanto intensi momenti nell'arena storica ed in main, ed ho tutta l'intenzione di continuare su questa linea.
Tutte le polemiche che si sono scatenate tra alcuni componenti delle nostre squadre sono originate da meri malintesi ed interpretazioni di quanto un pò frettolosamente detto, ed è folle, oltre che stupido, coinvolgere le intere squadriglie in questa guerra personale senza senso.
Siamo qui per divertirci, non per stabilire chi è il migliore (almeno quasi tutti), distendiamoci divertendoci, e facendo attenzione a mantenere una allegra rivalità, senza arrivare ai discorsi "il mio è più grosso del tuo", specie in pubblico, cosa che ci fa fare le solite figure di merda internazionali.
Ormai ci siamo guadagnati un certo rispetto in questo sim, non perdiamolo comportandoci da macho traboccanti di ormoni.
E se avete motivi privati di astio risolveteli in privato, come è giusto che sia.

<S> a tutti, primo e quarto.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)

and <S> all pilots in AH.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)

Naso
4° stormo CT
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 01:41:00 PM
NASO  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/mad.gif),
what the heck are you doin' with my Ray-Ban sunglasses ... dismissed!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: busc on June 21, 2000, 03:08:00 PM
Dear Naso,
           
I dont know why gatt is goin on insultin people, but, as u correctly said that is only a personal problem, as i previously explained im not interested in goin on in this discussion, I just conclude sayin this: gatt started this thing insultin people without any reason and still in his last post he is insultin people, all this mess was foolishly caused by him and is goin to be wisely stopped by other people.
Take your conclusions, i got mines.
One of them, oviously, is that gatt  has not enough gutts to duel me, i have no any problem with u or any other members of 4th, i just got upset with Gatt because of his arrogance and lack of self control.

            endin this soap opera,

                                   Busc
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: AKFokerFoder+ on June 21, 2000, 03:56:00 PM
Please excuse me for putting in my $.02, but I am new here and don't know all the "rules."

But somehow I just can't seem to find a page that has the AH rules on it.  If one of you would be so kind as to post the url for these rules, I will go and read them.

There must be a rule #1424247.09a somewhere that says you are not supposed to shoot a on-coming bogey.

Are there other rules that I don't know about?

Like don't bounce another bogey if he is already engaged?

Don't drop bombs on a field if planes are taking off?

Don't shoot a bogey unless you are on his 3-9 with no more than 50 mph of speed advantage, and you inform him of your attack at least 60 seconds over the comms?

No shooting of M16s unless they have advanced warning of my attack so they can bring their guns to bear?

You see, I guess I play like a dweeb, I've only been here about 3 weeks.  

I though that when you have a firing solution, you take it.  Aparently this is only acceptable from behind the bogeys 3-6 line or, [slap me I am soo stupid   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) ] is it behind the 4-8 line? 5-7 line???  I thought that this was a War sim where the rule was kill or be killed.  I mean I have had all kinds of pilots [stupid me, here I thought they were flying good BNZ tactics] who have dweebishly attacked me with alt, and hit me in front of my 6-9 line.  So naturally, not having read the rules, I though this was a good tactic, [given the damage and flight models of this SIM].  I mean the other flight SIMs I've flow in, you killed anyway you could or died trying.

I have so much to learn, so please give me that url, and I will throw away my well used copy of Robert Shaws book, and start reading the Aces High SIM rules of engagement.

I will also send the url to Robert Shaw, and tell him that he doesn't know spit about "real" aerial combat.

AKFokerFoder+


[This message has been edited by AKFokerFoder+ (edited 06-21-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 21, 2000, 04:14:00 PM
Busc,
I wont duel you becouse I dont like you and the way you behave. I have respect for guys able to post politely (Lucchini, that is) even if we have *very* different opinions. Not for you, sorry. Live with it, I can do it. And plz, stop to contact me on private channel and via e-mail with your silly jokes.

<EDIT> uhmm, you talk so much about other's gutts, I wonder if you got your own.


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 06-21-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Lampo on June 21, 2000, 05:51:00 PM
si si bravo gatt....hai ragione   ,,,...ok???
adesso fai il bravo e vedi di non scassare le palle + di tanto.
mi ricordi tanto mia nonna che doveva avere
sempre l'ultima parola.  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(ti e' piaciuto il mio 109k??? te ne posto un altro + bello)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Lampo

 (http://lampox.supereva.it/109.jpeg)

nb: ho postato il 109 del 2 gruppo perche' almeno non fa' parte di quelle squadriglie che si e' venduta agli alleati per 2 soldi.



------------------
Primo Gruppo Caccia
-=Asso Di Bastoni=-
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 22, 2000, 01:16:00 AM
Lampo,
nessuno aveva dubbi tu fossi un piccolo fascistoide con nostalgie da Repubblichino .... non c'era bisogno di un post per ricordarcelo.

Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Naso on June 22, 2000, 02:43:00 AM
for akfokerfoder+,

Rules in AH are simple:
[list=1]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Lampo on June 22, 2000, 02:50:00 AM
era giusto l'unica vaccata che potevi dire..
sempre che' non te l'abbia suggerita il tuo amichetto veltro,ni (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Lampo


------------------
Primo Gruppo Caccia
-=Asso Di Bastoni=-
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: busc on June 22, 2000, 03:22:00 AM
"NO GATTS NO GLORY" (in caps! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
    i see u still insultin around at 360 degrees, it's obvious that this is the only way to try gettin some respect for a lil lamer dweeb like you pissing his pants every time tht hears the "competition" (that for u is very close to umiliation).
But now shud up, this is a public forum as u previously said, lets close this thing now.

PS Proprio perchè non ti sai controllare e mi diverte osservare le tue reazioni scordinate, d'ora in poi ogni volta che ti becco in MA ti scriverò "no gatts no glory" o altre amenità sul canale privato....Se vuoi denunciami alla guardia di finanza, o agli ussari, o alla mamma, ma io lo farò, parola. Magari è la volta che impari a controllarti e ci ridi sopra.

PPS impegnati, scrivimi una risposta salace e arguta, ti lascio l'ultima parola se no sta telenovela non finisce piu'.

PPPS Dare del piccolo fascistoide a qualcuno per la sua stima per gli aviatori dell'ANR è in qualche modo una conferma, la conferma della tua scarsissima apertura mentale in genere, e nello specifico del fatto che nonostante le parole hai le capacità analitiche e le conoscenze storiche di un ornitorinco sotto sedativi...ecco quello che diceva un giornalista che scrive un tantino meglio di te di un pilota dell'anr:

Da un articolo di Luca Goldoni,Coriere della sera,16-11-1998:
"..Non ci troviamo di fronte a eroi omerici, ma a ragazzi pallidi rassegnati a giocarsi la vita per coerenza.
Sono tanti, anche se ne ricorderò uno solo: il "milite ignoto" Luigi Gorrini da Fidenza, medaglia d'oro, oggi ottantenne. Non l'ho mai incontrato, ma l'ho visto un mattino di più di cinquant'anni fa': un puntino nero settemila metri sopra la mia testa, un moscerino che giostrava disperatamente fra sciami di fortezze volanti, che stavano riducendo in polvere la mia città. Si udiva lassù come un ticchettio di macchina da scrivere: a un tratto un quadrimotore si inclinò con una scia di fumo e io esultai perchè odiavo gli americani che ci massacravano....Era convinto che in un gramo periodo [gramo periodo-->bombardamenti a tappeto/civili morti/partigiani massacrati/giovani braccati dalla coscrizione dell'anr] il suo posto di lavoro fosse nella carlinga di un caccia. E che la dignità potesse vincere la paura...Anche nel più antimilitarista dei film, il soldato Ryan rifiuta la salvezza e resta coi suoi compagni.
[il combattimento su Fidenza avvenne il 24 maggio del 1944]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 22, 2000, 03:43:00 AM
Busc,

oltre che testone sei anche poco intuitivo. Che c'entrano i veri piloti dell'ANR? Quella era gente con le palle. Io sto parlando di scimmiottatori come te. Fare riferimenti all'8 Settembre dimostra quanto vi prendete sul serio mentre giocate (il che fa effettivamente ridere immaginandovi davanti al monitor col joystick in mano  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))

In arena fai pure tutto quello che vuoi, tanto sul canale 1 si legge di tutto. Ti ripeto infine quello che ho scritto in inglese: parli troppo delle palle degli altri. Mi sa che soffri di qualche complesso ... fai un check pre-decollo sulle tue e controlla se ci sono mai state ... mi viene qualche dubbio  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Lucchini on June 22, 2000, 06:04:00 AM
OK

S T O P !

NON VOGLIO LEGGERE UN'ALTRA PAROLA!!!!!!!


BASTANO E AVANZANE QUELLE DETTE E SPERO CHE QUESTA SIA L'ULTIMA:

FINE

Lucchini
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: JEK on June 22, 2000, 07:31:00 AM
Gatt

Spero che un giorno il destino ci faccia incontrare,te e al tuo amico veltroni e al compare alcapone hehehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)

vedrai che bella festa sarà (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 22, 2000, 07:45:00 AM
Allora, vediamo un pò ... le minacce verbali giustificano un pò di ironia o no?   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Drago, prova a riscrivere il periodo concentrandoti sulla punteggiatura e l'uso corretto della grammatica italiana. "E non ci facciamo sempre riconoscere per quelli che siamo!"   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (da Alberto Sordi)

Drago sarai mica un nostalgico? E poi Al Capone (si scrive così) e Veltroni sono due galantuomini   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

P.S.: quando mi dirai: "il mio papà picchia il tuo!", oppure: "ce l'ho più grosso io!", oppure: "mammaaaaaaaaa GATT mi ha rubato i giocattoliiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!"?   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) LOL

<EDIT>
P.S.: Luc, hai ragione. Ma qui sembra non finire mai ... ok, provo a bacchettarmi le mani da solo  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)


[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 06-22-2000).]
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Dinger on June 22, 2000, 07:54:00 AM
Non so se il riso o la pieta` prevale.

Um... Pyro, were this in English, I can attest that you'd have locked this long ago.

And, no, a duel won't solve anything; I've seen many heated debates go to duels, but I've yet to see either of the two parties emerge satisfied from the affair.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 22, 2000, 08:11:00 AM
Dinger, your right, I feel pretty stupid.
Anyway, do you remember the WB's one between Frodo (if I'm not wrong) and Ninja (with the latter banned from posting on AGW for six months)?
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Pongo on June 22, 2000, 09:07:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by gatt:
Busc,

dont write in CAPS, I can hear you. In my post there was nothing offensive. If you took offence, I apologize. Anyway, from what you have written I understand there is something personal when we fight each other. Not for me. So calm down.

Yes our fighting styles are different indeed, and some of us dont like each other, but everyone here is free to fly and fight the way he prefers.

"Wardog, you probably came across guys of 1^Gruppo Caccia and/or some other dweeb. Our squad never goes HO, its one of our ROE."

Must be a cultural thing..but that is offensive were I come from.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: gatt on June 22, 2000, 09:47:00 AM
Pongo, thank you. But you've lost some 15 harsch replies after those you have quoted. Lets try to stop this insane thing.
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: JEK on June 22, 2000, 09:49:00 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
HOHOHOHOHOHO
HIHIHIHIHIHIH
Cosè l'ironia da te non me lo sarei aspettato heheh e per la tua CUL-tura le virgole mettitele.........come al solito non hai capito un c.....
da uno sferico gemelloicosiamese che vuoi pretendere e poi io non ho minacciato nessuno
e le virgole non le metto cosi ti incazzi hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
ciao amoreeeeeeee mioooooo kissssss
Title: For the first tim I log out disgusted
Post by: Pyro on June 22, 2000, 10:21:00 AM
Sorry, you guys have used up your bickering allowance for the next year.  This thread is locked.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

Most plans are just inaccurate predictions.