Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: artik on June 12, 2003, 02:52:31 PM
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Firstly:
what Spitfires do in 1956 ????????????????
They didn't flew in this period even spit14
Tempset and F4u ???? F4U I can understand the only navy plane but anyway - the Kadesh war was Jet war - the prop planes had used only in Ground attacks P51 had it's last operation service in this war. B17b had used 2-3 times in nigh attacks only.
I think it is better to make the Jets only fights - 262 vs 262 as Meteor/Mister/Ouragan vs Meteor/Vampire/MiG-15. You not need there spitfires. Prop planes in attack sorties only.
Secondly:
Why tunissia map - it is too far from - try Israel map I made even in the way it looks like now - the speeds of jets planes make the ditances much shoter. and you need just a couple of minutes to get from IAF base to Egyptian base.
Make this event more real please - it will look much better.
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Artik, hey bud your map will be great for event's but like I said in e-mails to you players dont like to fly long distances in the CT like over 25 miles it's bad for game play, and on this map the 262 are limited to the rear bases, some players will fery them up but most are not interested in doing this. While not all the bases on your map are that far apart( over 25 miles) the ones around Iserail are and it will not be good for game play.
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Artik,
This was my set-up and I chose what planes and map were used.
1. I didn't use your map because as Brady suggested, it was not CT friendly. I very much would have liked to use it.
2. Acording to my refrences - the Egyptian AF still had Spitfires in use as ground attack planes at the time of the 1956 war.
3. The Tempest was substuted for the RN Attacker Jet instead of the 262 for the simple reason most people have trouble taking a jet off the carrier. Simple as that.
4. The reason for the F4U & TBM was that was the actual types used abourd the French Carriers.
5. The reason is it wasn't left to Jet vs. Jet only is that HTC in their infinate wisdom decided not to enable bombs or rockets on the 262 so if any turf was to be taken there had to be props.
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Egyptian AF still had Spitfires
I am Israeli and I know the history of Kadesh war quite well.
In 1956 Egyptian AF included this:
- 4 squadrons of MiG-15/MiG-17
- 3 squadrons of Vampire (they had been used in Air to Ground sorties)
- 1 squadron of Gloster Meteor
- 2 squadrons of Il-28
- 2 squadrons of cargo planes.
Even if they had Spitfires they had never used in this war
IAF included:
- 1 squadron of Myster IV
- 1 squadron of Ouragan
- 2 squadrons of Meteor
- 2 squadrons of Mustang
- 2 squadrons of Mosquito
- 1 squadron of Harvard
- 1 squadron of B-17 that included only 3 planes
About french/british forces I have less information and I think it is right to use F4U-4 and Tempset as crrier based planes because we do not have Carrier bases Jets.
The operation Musketeer was very short and was based on Hard bombing of Egyptian AF bases and LVT's capturing. It started at the end of Kadesh War. The most fights were at Siai of IAF vs EAF.
The most fights were between Mister IV and MiG-15
Egyptians had never used prop planes.
I think the best is to make Jets aviable at all fields. and to use prop planes in ground attack sorties only.
So we will make this CT much close to real with Jet fights
By the way 30mm guns are very good to kill GV's and they could be used qute well.
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"By the way 30mm guns are very good to kill GV's and they could be used qute well."
The Me 262 has no "Atack" button which means that any GV or Ground atack sorties in them will wreak your fighter rank, for those who wory over such thing's.
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Originally posted by brady
The Me 262 has no "Atack" button which means that any GV or Ground atack sorties in them will wreak your fighter rank, for those who wory over such thing's.
and you know who you are!
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Concho:D
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Artik, congrats on being Israeli.
!
In the Squadron Signal publication - ARAB AIR FORCES while not directly listing them it implied that the Spitfire's of the EAF where still in service though not in the frontline. My reason for including them.
I am sorry you guys were not pleased with my set-up. I noticed alot of people flying for the amount of "whining" going on.
It was an experiment plain and simple. Something to get away from the same ole same ole. I would have loved to make it realistic as possible with METEORS, MIG-15's etc., but there are certain limitations placed on us by the dynamics of the game. We have to make it as "Playable" as possible for all. Whine to your heart's content - this won't change.
In conclusion, if you guys aimed you "Whines" toward HTC instead those of us that are just trying to bring more intrest to our game then we might get all those new toys we have been pleading with for years.
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We do, it dont....:mad:
Well, to conclude this weeks map. The Spit IVX, that doesnt seem to have suposed to have been there to begin with, was flown more than anything.
Here is what we had:
Spits Vs P-51
Spits vs Tempest
Spits vs Me 262
Spits vs F4U
P-51 vs Spits
P-51 vs Me 262
Me 262 vs Me 262
etc etc etc
Still looks like the MA to me.
Jester, I realy do see your point but I am still surprised. Lets dont sugar coat it next time. Lets just say "lets have a mini MA with a few mixed matched airplanes vs each other" for a bit of change in pace.
Lets stick to the meaning of the CT. If the plane aint there, dont sub it. If this means an unbalanced map, oh well, then its time to continue to yell at HTC. We need plane matches to go along with the map time frames.
Lets start out one week early PTO, one week early ETO etc etc and work our way to the end of the war!
Its kinda funny, the other night you were in the Ar-something or another and I shot you down. That was the ONLY ONE I have seen all week!
This map turned into a Spit vs ? furball week! Oh yeah, and that damn pesky Tiger Tank.
Another funny thing was the fact that those guys said that only one flight of THREE B-17s were used during that conflict. I saw many many mnay B-17s..heheheheh
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Andijg
I enjoyed the setup and plane set. I thought it was fun to fly the different perk planes for free.
Flew the others before, but never really flew the Spit14. Was very surprised at it's speed and handling at higher speeds.
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Cadillac of the sky ran rings around the spit14
That plane overrated.
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Ya I had a lot of fun flying this set up and I thought it played very well and was good match up, 10Bears is right I had my but handed to me by some P51 Jocks that new how to make her work for them while I was in a Spit XIV.
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I wasn't saying that the spit14 is uber. I had never really flown it before as was surprised. Had 3 or 4 spit14's catch my arse in a 262 last week. Surprised me.
Course I also handled myself well against 3 to 4 newbie p51's on occasion. Was fun.
Still a big for the set-up despite others feelings.
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I enjoyed it aswell.
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The most interesting that there were almost no fight Meteor/262 vs Meteor/262 - this period of 1956 was the period of Jets. Spitfires, Mustangs, F4U-7 (in the set F4U-4) used in Air to ground sorties only. If there were all fields with Jets it would be much more interesting because the role of Prop plances known as good fighters wold be shifted to air to ground only due to supriority of Jets. I think it is worst to try this it would open New Jet ara for AH playes.
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Originally posted by artik
Firstly:
what Spitfires do in 1956 ????????????????
They didn't flew in this period even spit14
Tempset and F4u ???? F4U I can understand the only navy plane but anyway - the Kadesh war was Jet war - the prop planes had used only in Ground attacks P51 had it's last operation service in this war. B17b had used 2-3 times in nigh attacks only.
I think it is better to make the Jets only fights - 262 vs 262 as Meteor/Mister/Ouragan vs Meteor/Vampire/MiG-15. You not need there spitfires. Prop planes in attack sorties only.
Secondly:
Why tunissia map - it is too far from - try Israel map I made even in the way it looks like now - the speeds of jets planes make the ditances much shoter. and you need just a couple of minutes to get from IAF base to Egyptian base.
Make this event more real please - it will look much better.
Should have been a 1948 plane set rather than a 1956 one - Spit's flew on both sides and the Israeli's had the 109 - Muzek or Mule
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List of pre 1950 kills by israeli a/f
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_71.shtml
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Yeah we can do 1948 planeset:
IAF:
Avia S199- 109g6
Spit9
B17
Mustang P51D
Mosquito
C47
Harvard - TBM can be used
REAF
Spit5
Spit9
C205
C47 bombers - may be used boston
RAF
Spit 14
Tempset
But we need to use for it relevant terrain
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_Schadenfreude_
nice info, so where was our (Israeli) spit IVX?
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Originally posted by CurtissP-6EHawk
_Schadenfreude_
nice info, so where was our (Israeli) spit IVX?
Rematch!!! we DEMAND a rematch!!!
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Artik's set up looks pretty fun.
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MY COMMENTS ON THE LAST SET-UP:
I had actually looked at doing the 1948 "War of Independece" for this set up with the plane set but decided to go with the 1956 "Battle for Suez" so I could get some different planes in the set-up, namely the jets, that are not usually seen in and flown in the CT.
My "object" in all this was to bring something "Different" and maybe attract some new players over from the MA. I think it worked pretty good - every night I tuned in there were 50+ on playing, not like the usual 15 to 20 in the CT on non-squad nights. And it was kinda hart warming seeing all the MA players getting shot down by the CT vets. ;)
In conclusion, For those of you that liked the set-up and were nice enough to tell me so a sincere THANK YOU. !
For those of you that didn't like it - well you can take comfort in that it was just an experiment and most likely won't be repeated any time soon. Will be back to WW2 for the present.
And Lastly, For those of you that constantly "squeaked and Moaned" through the whole set-up, (you know who you are) - all I can say is that in every life a little rain must fall. ;)
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Also Artik,
IMO think the 109G wouldn't be the best choice for the AVIA S199. Way too capable an airframe to sub for the S199.
The Mercedes engine being replaced by the Jumo 004 (used in the HE 111 bomber) really cut down on the power and made it a difficult if not dangerous a/c to fly. They didn't call it "Mule" for nothing! Was thinking of more along the lines of the 109E.
Also the TBM is a "little" ubber for a AT-6 Harvard IMO. Think the VAL is pretty close - SBD would be good also if it didn't carry so much bomb load. I just don't see a AT-6 picking up a 1000 pdr and 2x 100 pdrs.
I do like your set-up listed above. Maybe some time in the future, when the whinners have calmed down and when they have the bugs out of the mid east map we can do something in this era again.
Myself, I am still trying to figure out how I can replicate barreling down the Bakka Valley in my trusty F-4E Phantom II hunting SAMS. :D
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IMO think the 109G wouldn't be the best choice for the AVIA S199. Way too capable an airframe to sub for the S199
Yeah you right S199 had very poor perfomance (I do not know how did they flew them and got kills!!!!) The point that I reskinned 109g6 as S199 is that 109E or F could be good in manuvering fight when S199 was even harvyer then 109g6!!!. So I made the compromise of the havyest and less powered planes of 109G.
Myself, I am still trying to figure out how I can replicate barreling down the Bakka Valley in my trusty F-4E Phantom II hunting SAMS
Yeah............... Don't troble such painfull point :( I would like too. But if you can simulate Meteor with 262 quite well F4E Phantom it is trobble. Yes if we could make the Yom-Kipur war of 1973 of Arabic Airfoces - MiG21 , SAM2, SAM3, SAM6 vs IAF F4E and Mirage it would be great for me but it is only dreams.... untill there will be Jet AH or WB IV.
By the way I liked this different thinking in AH of producing somthing different from WWII - I'm with you.
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Originally posted by Andijg
I do like your set-up listed above. Maybe some time in the future, when the whinners have calmed down and when they have the bugs out of the mid east map we can do something in this era again.
Myself, I am still trying to figure out how I can replicate barreling down the Bakka Valley in my trusty F-4E Phantom II hunting SAMS. :D
You could buy a game that deals with that time period.
Just an idea.
:p
Splash1