Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: kesolei on June 14, 2003, 12:21:34 PM
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Okay.. someone please explain to me why we have no Yak 9us in this setup... please?
I saw they were penciled in, and then people threw fits.. and now they're not in the hangers.
The /first/ setup that I ever played here was this one, and we had 'em. It was fine. People flew, most everyone enjoyed it... was a break from the spits, etc etc.
Guys, we're here because we enjoy flying. Not because this planeset can kick the other planeset's butt. So what if for one week your plane set is a bit inferior- Deal with it or switch sides for a week. Play the MA, or mess around in training if you can't deal with it.. but things even out in the end.
I'm really dissapointed that the yaks aren't there. We always seem to see the same basic planeset, hurris.. spits.. 109s, 190s.. 87s, 88s.. a-20s... This is a chance to toss in something else we don't get to see very often in the CT. I don't like flying the MA, too busy.. people aren't as polite, and I /thought/ that the people in the CT were better at sucking it up when they had the 'disadvantage'. I thought that maybe instead of running away, they'd rise up to the challenge and try to figure out a different way to approach flying against yaks.
Guess I was wrong?
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the yak 9u is a late 44 plane. Its on the same time frame as the g10 and d9. It also didnt operate against Finland.
The la5fn is faster then any axis plane below 10k
the yak 9t is faster between 6k and 1k.
Both the lafn will out turn the axis planes at med speeds. Lo speed the 109s have the advantage.
at and above 15k the 190a5 and 109gs have the speed advantage.
Overall it pretty balanced.
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Yak9U mass production start Aprill 1944 and 163 IAP start combat test fligts Oct 1944 in Baltic region far away form Finland.
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You have a Yak9T be happy. The Yak9U is in the calss of the La7, G10 and FW190D9 and would unbalance the setup vs G6 and FW190A5 as it completely outcalsses each of those at all alts and has no weaknesses to balance out and make for interesting fihts.
Think about it why are you asking for it if you think it has no imapct - then it would be same without it...
Adding G10 or D9 to balance it out would skew the setup towards BNZ and away from the agresive fights we have now.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
no weaknesses to balance out and make for interesting fihts.
OH, so the puny ammo load isn't a weakness? The Yak9u is a great plane, yes. It does have weaknesses. Its a hard plane to fly, and fly well, unless you know what you're doing. When you do, its great. It has very little ammo, if memory serves me right- 200 rounds total. Doesn't make for long trips, eh?
You guys are missing my point here. There /are/ ways to overcome the Yak9u 'Advantage'. There has to be. There is a way to overcome every problem placed before you without whinning to get it moved.
Besides, what makes the game better. Flying around and winning every single time you go into a dog-fight, or flying around and getting to go against a plane/pilot that outclasses you a little- forcing you to step up to the plate and try a little harder, and in doing so become a better pilot?
If all we ever flew against were people and planes that were perfectly matched in every single way, we all flew at the exact same altitude and used the same moves, you would get bored without a doubt.
By taking out the yak9u, you take away an element of interest. It isn't the same without the yak in there, I know that. Putting it back would make a difference. A big one.
Were all these air wars /fair/? Didn' think so.
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Hi
I did see FinRus-map deveploping very closely because Kanttori, The map maker, is my squad mate.
"By taking out the yak9u, you take away an element of interest. It isn't the same without the yak in there, I know that. Putting it back would make a difference. A big one. "
Its very funny to me read your comments. What makes you think Yak9U belong originally to this map?
Element of interest? FinRus-map was record break in CT numbers
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There is a Yak in this CT setup, stop crying and go fly it right now.
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"Its very funny to me read your comments. What makes you think Yak9U belong originally to this map? "
Because the Yak9U was in the map the last two times it was played? Of course so were the big G rides and people whined about it then as well.
My only complaint is seeing my favorite ride in the whole game listed in a map it's been in before. Logging in to find it's been pulled do to whining.
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Originally posted by Xjazz
Element of interest? FinRus-map was record break in CT numbers
And, the Yak9u was in there when it broke the numbers I'm guessing. Why change a winning formula?
If someone can give me an honest to god reason why the plane was pulled that /isn't/ 'because it wasn't fair'- then I'll shut up. But so far I haven't seen that reason.
The people that are telling me to just fly the 9t and be happy are completely missing the point of this post. Completely.
Let me tell you a little story.
I just spent 3 and a half days stuck in a situation where 30 strangers were tossed together and told we had to become a team. We had to do things together like put all 30 of us over a 6.5 foot high rope with no help but ourselves.
It sucked. We failed miserably until we got it figured out. We could have whinned to get the rope lowered, we could have whinned and tried to get a stepping stool to at least help a little- We could have whinned a /lot/ the whole time to get what we 'wanted'.
But in the end, we did it with no help from the outside. And it was an amazing feeling, and the whole time... not one negative comment. Not one. I know that's hard to believe, but that was what made it so cool. We worked /together/ to overcome the obstacle.
End story.
If 30 strangers can do that, can't a bunch of people who have been flying together for awhile come up with a way to defeat a yak9u (which, it can be done. I've been shot down in them- we all have if you've flown on!) without whinning to get it removed?
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Kesolei ....
.... good attitude, ma'am.
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Sorry Arlo-I got to step in with a correction on this one
The Sir you refer to is a She-She's a babe, and I'm proud to say that she is one of ours
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Edited accordingly, Mike.
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Awwe.. Mike, you're makin' me blush. ;)
And, thank you guys, Sundiver, Arlo and Mike. I'm glad to see /someone/ isn't against what I'm saying!
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The Yak9U was not originally in the setup, somebody added it later on and messes everything up.
Shut up and fly the 9T.... Or do you want people to start whinig for the G10 or Dora?
Damn why cant some people live without the latest greatest late war uber rides - learn to fly dammit....
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they have the yak T with the one ping wonder gun in its nose - pls stop whining
somebody tell me how one 37mm ping can take a wing off yet numerous 20mm (nose & gonds) takes more than a couple of pings to flame a yak
must be the better made russian ammo :rolleyes:
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Because just like MK108 30mm the 37mm has a lot more HE than a 20mm?
But I have not found killing Yak or La5 or Hurri with 1x20mm 2x13mm in Bf109G6 to be aqny problem. Thankfully I dont have to shoot at FM2s though.. :)
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Originally posted by kesolei
If 30 strangers can do that, can't a bunch of people who have been flying together for awhile come up with a way to defeat a yak9u (which, it can be done. I've been shot down in them- we all have if you've flown on!) without whinning to get it removed?
It seems to me that YOU are the one whining here. What's wrong with the Yak-9T? I have no trouble getting 3-4 kills per sortie in it.
As was stated by others, the Yak-9U was not available to the Soviets during the time period this set-up reflects. The Soviets are limited to the 9T and the La-5FN, both of which are very good fighters. Odd are that if you can't get the job done in one of those, then I doubt you will in the later fighters either.
As to defeating the Yak-9U, the 109G2 owns it, unless the Yak pilot runs, as the Yak is faster. However, the 109G2 turns better and climbs much better. Meeting a 9U Co-E and Co-alt usually results in a dead Yak, if they stick around and fight... I suspect most will simply run the instant they discover that they cannot maneuver with the G2 for long and live.
Widewing
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Widewing- I thank you in part for attempting to make a coherant arguement against what I'm saying and pointing out what plane can defeat the yak.
As for the part about me whining? Yea, I kinda am. More-so I'm trying to point out that a bunch of grown men are more concerned about whinning to get rid of an opponents good plane than trying to come up with a way to defeat it.
And Grunherz? You can stop saying 'shut up and fly the 9t'. If you can't tell, I'm more apt to /actually/ respond to intelligent argument against my points. I am flying the 9t. I'm just dissapointed in the people I fly with for whinning so much that the 9u actually got removed. They've never, ever done that when we whine against the spit IVs, and whatever the heck plane we're whinning against this week. It sickens me.
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I donno k, you seem to have become dead set in your ways while many people have very nicely answered your question. Look how you are still fighting and arguing that people somehow wrongly "whined" the 9U out of the planeset even when widewing nicely explained to you why the 9U is inapporopriate and unnneccseary in this planeset in the first place.
So pardon my frustration and keep flying the 9T, its a good plane.
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"I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U!"
Sounds like h2h-room whiner... :rolleyes:
FinRus-map was very first time in CT 12-15-2002 and without Yak9U.
Original setup
http://www.savanne.org/ah/FINRUS/gameset.html
Kesolei & Co Yak9U whiners, its good to know that YOU know better our war time history, than Finns. You also have a access to read the Finnsh and Russian military records for war time?
Which Finnish WW2 Pilot fight against Yak9U? Please, give a name...
"I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U! I wanna yak9U!"
Gosh! Grov up!
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See now you dun it, the Finns are mad at you :)
Thats not something you want, ask the Russ.........
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Kesolei & Co Yak9U whiners, its good to know that YOU know better our war time history, than Finns. You also have a access to read the Finnsh and Russian military records for war time?
I dont believe anyone is questioning history. They just like the 9U and want to fly it. Next time it should be added with the D9 and G-10 and we all can be happy, or happier I guess. Dont let the "Axis whine mafia" get to you Kesolei:D <>
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I donno k, you seem to have become dead set in your ways while many people have very nicely answered your question. Look how you are still fighting and arguing that people somehow wrongly "whined" the 9U out of the planeset even when widewing nicely explained to you why the 9U is inapporopriate and unnneccseary in this planeset in the first place.
Musta missed my acknowledging his arguement, huh? Widewing did make a very good point, and I'm willing to accept his reasoning as to why the plane was taken out.
But is that the honest-to-god reason why the plane was taken out? CT staff, most likely, are the only people that can answer that. If one of them would kindly tell me that the plane was taken out for reasons other than axis whinning- I'll shut up and you wont hear another peep outta me.
Jazz? I would really appreciate it if you didn't stoop to name calling. I'm not a 'h2h-room whiner', I'm actually someone that tends to discourage all that. When I started this thread, I wasn't really whinning. If it came off that way, well- sorry. I was attempting to come up with a way to show my dissapointment at having things changed for what I saw as an unfair reason and /not/ do it by saying, "MAN! This sucks! They took the yak away and I want it back, NOW!"
I asked for the reason why, which I feel I'm entitled too, and Widewing has told me a good reason why in a, for the most part, good way. Other people gave bits and pieces, yes.
I don't care about kills. I enjoy flying. I like flying the 9u, the 9t is a fair substitute- but it isn't the 9u.
Again, if the CT staff did indeed take the 9u out because it wasn't really in production yet, I'll stop. But that reason has to come from one of them before I'll really believe it.
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Kesolei,
Originally posted by Xjazz
Sounds like h2h-room whiner... :rolleyes: [/B]
I just say how yours comments strat sound to me.
You ask the reasons. This time read more carefully:
Originally posted by Xjazz
Yak9U mass production start Aprill 1944 and 163 IAP start combat test fligts Oct 1944 in Baltic region far away form Finland. [/B]
Not good reason?
Originally posted by Xjazz
FinRus-map was very first time in CT 12-15-2002 and without Yak9U.
Original setup
http://www.savanne.org/ah/FINRUS/gameset.html
Not good reason?
Originally posted by Xjazz
What makes you think Yak9U belong originally to this map?[/B]
And your answer is?
CT stuff use original FinRus plane setup.
When CT have next time BoB setup, how about Tempest or F4U-4 for Alied side just for you?
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Jazz? Perhaps I thought it went with the map beause its been a part of the map the last 2 times its been played. I'll admit- I've only been here a short period of time. I wasn't here when the map made its debut, I'm just running off the experiance I've had with the map.
Okay. So it wasn't originally with the map.
I Looked at what you said each time and said, "Okay." I also thought, "He's completely missing my point."
The Yak9u may have no place what-so-ever in the map. You guys have shown me enough to say that yea, the plane doesn't really belong and I'm not going to begrudge that fact. But people whinned and whinned when they saw the 9u in the setup, and then when I logged in- it wasn't in the hanger. What conclusion am I to draw as to why the plane isn't there?
I'm dissapointed that people whinned so much that a plane was taken out of a planeset. People always whine here, they whine rather than try to do something constructive to fix the problem. Honestly? I could care less that the yak isn't in there. If I really want to fly it, I'll run over to the TA with some people and run around in it and get my fix. That's what I do, ask some of my squaddies.
I'm just tired of watching a bunch of grown men act like children, and this case was enough to make me say something about it. You guys can stop telling me that the plane doesn't belong in there, and that it wasn't original. I understand that. Like I said, If that is the reason the plane was taken out- I will gladly shut up about it. But I don't think that's the reason the plane was taken out, and /that/ is why I'm dissapointed. Not because the plane isn't there.
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Yes people complained because it id does not belong int the setup it is a late war plane with serious performance advnatages that make it unbalanced and unrealistic for the setup.
And yes k I did see how you "acknowledged" widewing's response - you did it by immediatly whining again how you think it's removal was still unfair.
So now as you have been proven wrong do yourself a favor stop crying and wipe of those tears and go fly the 9T...
Whats so hard about that?
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I cant figure why HTC didnt include a 23mm option for the Yak-9T (which it had). All those options in so many a/c, and nothing for the 9T. I suspect a lot of folks find the 37mm ammo issue a bit frustrating when facing 190s and 109s with or without gondolas. You dont need a 37mm cannon to shoot a fighter, its like hunting ducks with a .308.
Agree on the 9U, it is a later 1944 a/c. If they added the 190A-8 I could see putting in the Yak-9U as a balancer.
Basically fly the LA-5 if the ammo issue bothers you.
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Yak9U is comporable to the D9 not A8, they entered combat about the same time in late 1944. The A8 entered combat in early 44 and the nearly identical A7 did in late 43.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So now as you have been proven wrong do yourself a favor stop crying and wipe of those tears and go fly the 9T...
Whats so hard about that?
Have you even read half of what I've been saying? You too miss the entire point of what I'm trying to say. I /am/ flying the 9t. I don't /care/ that the 9u isn't there. If I want to fly it, I'll go the the TA or MA and take it for a spin.
I'm just tired of watching a bunch of grown men act like children, and this case was enough to make me say something about it. You guys can stop telling me that the plane doesn't belong in there, and that it wasn't original. I understand that. Like I said, If that is the reason the plane was taken out- I will gladly shut up about it. But I don't think that's the reason the plane was taken out, and /that/ is why I'm dissapointed. Not because the plane isn't there.
Let me spell it out plain and simple, here.
MY POINT:
A plane was taken out of a rotation because so many people whinned about it's being there, after it was successfully added and used for at least 2 weeks. This behavior on our parts as pilots dissapoints me.
NOT MY POINT:
The yak 9u isn't in there.
The yak 9u should be in there.
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If you are talking strictly dates, I agree. As balance, I *might* put it in, but its a workable setup as it stands. Its never going to be 100 percent fair, a/c entered service at different times, and they also are all different in performance, so a balance can be hard to strike. Same old same old.
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Originally posted by kesolei
I don't /care/ that the 9u isn't there.
NOT MY POINT:
The yak 9u isn't in there.
The yak 9u should be in there.
Now you are just straight up lying....
FROM YOUR FIRST POST:
"I'm really dissapointed that the yaks aren't there."
You're pathetic...
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When Kanttori submited his set up to the CT way back when when it first ran (I did the first set up), and we looked at his intended plane set it included the yak and the P51B , the set up read is the one he posted I beleave before we did the set up.
I determined that the Yak was to much for the set up preformance wise ( see Grunherz coments above about it and the balance issue I could not of said it better and he certainly spellied it better:) ) and historicaly not revelent to the time and place the set up was intended to represent (same more or less for the P51), the staff argead and the Yak 9U was not put into the set up and Kanttori understood.
You see it was not realy Taken out since it neaver realy was in in the first place.
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Grunherz, have I once insulted you? Didn't think so. Care to return the favor?
You're taking that sentence out of context, and sure when out of context it looks bad.
Take a step back and look at everything I've said. Yes, I know in the first post I said that I was dissapointed that Yak wasn't in there, and that we always seem to see the same basic planeset. That, yes, was a vent of frustration that had very little to do with the point of my posts. Look at all of them, look for the thread that binds them all together.
I thought that maybe instead of running away, they'd rise up to the challenge and try to figure out a different way to approach flying against yaks.
There /are/ ways to overcome the Yak9u 'Advantage'. There has to be. There is a way to overcome every problem placed before you without whinning to get it moved.
Besides, what makes the game better. Flying around and winning every single time you go into a dog-fight, or flying around and getting to go against a plane/pilot that outclasses you a little- forcing you to step up to the plate and try a little harder, and in doing so become a better pilot?
If 30 strangers can do that, can't a bunch of people who have been flying together for awhile come up with a way to defeat a yak9u (which, it can be done. I've been shot down in them- we all have if you've flown on!) without whinning to get it removed?
More-so I'm trying to point out that a bunch of grown men are more concerned about whinning to get rid of an opponents good plane than trying to come up with a way to defeat it.
I'm just dissapointed in the people I fly with for whinning so much that the 9u actually got removed. They've never, ever done that when we whine against the spit IVs, and whatever the heck plane we're whinning against this week.
I'm dissapointed that people whinned so much that a plane was taken out of a planeset. People always whine here, they whine rather than try to do something constructive to fix the problem. Honestly? I could care less that the yak isn't in there. If I really want to fly it, I'll run over to the TA with some people and run around in it and get my fix. That's what I do, ask some of my squaddies.
I'm just tired of watching a bunch of grown men act like children, and this case was enough to make me say something about it. You guys can stop telling me that the plane doesn't belong in there, and that it wasn't original. I understand that. Like I said, If that is the reason the plane was taken out- I will gladly shut up about it. But I don't think that's the reason the plane was taken out, and /that/ is why I'm dissapointed. Not because the plane isn't there.
MY POINT:
A plane was taken out of a rotation because so many people whinned about it's being there, after it was successfully added and used for at least 2 weeks. This behavior on our parts as pilots dissapoints me.
If you don't get it now, I give up. You're not going to understand what I'm trying to say, and I'm tired of being insulted for things that aren't even what I /should/ be being insulted for.
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Kesloi you have clearly lied in this thread and your own words prove it as qouted above, and I belive now that you have had to resort to deliberate lying that any further attempt at discussion is pointless.
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Hey read the above post of mine...
"You see it was not realy Taken out since it neaver realy was in in the first place"
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I missed your post, Brady, before I posted my last one. Must've been writting it at the same time or something.
Grunherz, I'm not going to waste my time on you anymore. I have no idea how you can say that I'm 'clearly lying' as 'proven by my quotes'. Really. I'm at a completely loss as to where you're coming from.
But, as a CT staff member has now told me what I requested, like I said, I'm going to stop.
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Ok Kesloi one more time since you are so dim!
In your first post you said:
"I'm really dissapointed that the yaks aren't there."
Then later after your incessant whining was beaten down you changed your tune to:
"I don't /care/ that the 9u isn't there."
Seems like you were lying in at least one of your posts....
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Ok Kesloi one more time since you are so dim!
Don't feel bad Kesloi. Grunherz pointed out to me that I was a studmuffin and an idiot the other night. Then he wanted to join my squad, but I pointed out to him the C.O. was a studmuffin and an idiot. :D It is not just you, he shares his love with most everyone. ;)
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CO daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.332nd.org/)
Roster (http://www.332nd.org/squadroster.htm)
Events! (http://www.hitechcreations.com/events.html)
Noses in the wind since 1997.
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends. - Baltasar Gracian
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So can I still join Daddog? :)
But yea k listen to daddog - you shouldn't take my insults seriously, though I sincerely think you are a liar in this thread, I harbor no real ill feelings towards you and want to help you understand where you are in error.
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I haven't spent much time in the 9T...but after flying it a bit it's easy to see its an outstanding ride...in fact I think its clearly superior to the 9U in alot of ways. Overall leathality is equal or better...easy to get 3-4 kills and 6-7 is possible without rearming. Obviously its a phonebooth fighter so you need to know your getting in close from the beginning. I've had a bunch of great knife fights with F4's hurricanes 109's and FM-2s and the yak holds its own surprisingly well. Never felt like I lost because of the plane I was in...a few times felt I won only because of the plane....no need for any other yak IMO.
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Originally posted by daddog
Don't feel bad Kesloi. Grunherz pointed out to me that I was a studmuffin and an idiot the other night. Then he wanted to join my squad, but I pointed out to him the C.O. was a studmuffin and an idiot. :D It is not just you, he shares his love with most everyone. ;)
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CO daddog
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.332nd.org/)
Roster (http://www.332nd.org/squadroster.htm)
Events! (http://www.hitechcreations.com/events.html)
Noses in the wind since 1997.
(http://www.ropescourse.org/cdaddog.jpg)
A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends. - Baltasar Gracian
Well since you've got kids I seriously doubt your a studmuffin:) Since you wont stick around and fight you can't be an idiot:D .....however you are a candyprettythang:rolleyes: ....but since you pay your $15 you certainly have as much right to float your boat as anyone else.:p
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lol, daddog I'll remember that!
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
But yea k listen to daddog - you shouldn't take my insults seriously, though I sincerely think you are a liar in this thread, I harbor no real ill feelings towards you and want to help you understand where you are in error.
Grun, I'm not mad at you either so much as I'm frustrated with ya. Yea, I made two conflicting statements... but what I was trying to point out later was that that wasn't the focus of what I was trying to say. *considers quietly* Yes, you're completely right. I said one thing, then said another.
But that wasn't what I wanted people to focus on, the fact that the 9u wasn't in there. I'll admit it right now; 9u is my favorite ride in the game. I looked forward to the finn-russia map because not only was it the first map I played on, but it had the 9u.
What I wanted you guys to look at when I posted was the fact that, from what I saw at the time, people were whinning so much that planes are being taken out of planesets. (Brady's post obviously clarified for me, which is cool 'cause I asked for the clarification- but people still whine way too much in the CT!)
/That/ didn't set right with me. Does that make sense, Grun? I think we have/had a case of misunderstanding here, and I've been trying to show you my side of it while you've been trying to show me yours- problem is, we aint been listenin' to each other.
I made conflicting statements. I didn't lie though, not in the sense that you're talking about I don't think. My focus wasn't meant to be on the fact that the plane wasn't in there, it was meant to be on the whinning. I was incredibly tired when I made the first post- so it might not have come off as well as I wanted it too, and i tried to remedy that in later posts.
I'd just gotten back from pre-camp training (I'm a camp counselor part-time during summers, whee!) which was 3 and a half days of, up at 7:30- non-stop running around through a place that had 3 flat spots. Cabins, Lodge and bathhouse.. then getting into bed at 12:30 or 1 by the time everything we needed to do was done. My brain was fried. I tried to make the post sound right, and it probably would have been smart of me to wait until the next day to make it, but I didn't.
Does that help you at all see where I was coming from? I kinda want to get this worked out and call a 'truce' on the matter- just because I'm one of those people that hates having something like this unsettled. I'm too damn nice. :P
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I know it can bevery disapointing to not have your favorite plane in certain CT setups, but as we discovered in this thread the Yak9U is not appropriate for this time period and did not fight against Finland's airforces, apparently somebody made an error when they included it in the setup before. Some people noticed the error and, naturally, spoke out, complained and yes whined. The CT leaders weighed the arguments and decided to remove it. Naturally some people, like you, disagree and are unhappy but sometimes we cant all win all the arguments.
So yea I see you were disapointed in how this happened and see that aspect of your arguemnt. :)
Anyway I'm happy you have not taken my insults seriously, I prefer to think of them of them or as bombastic jokes rather than hurtful statements, in fact it is never my intent to hurt peoples feelings and if I ever do I'm honestly sorry and make attempts to right the situation as several people here can testify to....
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*laughs* I think we're going to have to agree to just stop, Grun. I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're missing what I'm saying and I'm guessing it just aint gonna happen.
This was just a case in point that I felt I could use to make a different point. We whine too much. This time it was justified, so I had a bad base for the point I tried to make.
Truce?
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You are upset that people were whining and this became a personal issiue to you out of the fact that your favorite plane was removed from the setup because of said complaints.
Thats how I interpret your argument. How is that wrong?
Its not a matter of truce, were simply discussing this and trying to get to the bottom of it. :)
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*considers* You are entitled to your own views on what I've said. Lemme try this one more time.
If it hadn't been the yak that was taken out, I still would have made a similar post asking why the plane was taken out.
From what it looked like when I made the first post, the plane had been removed due to people's whinning. You guys have straightened me out, and Brady backed it, that the Yak9u didn't belong anyway. I chose a bad case to make my point with, I can see that now.
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Nope Kesloi you are being dishonest again, you didnt say a peep about the P51B that was also whined out of this setup.
I hope you understand the problem created by your obvious skirting around the fact that you are pissed your favorite airplane was nixed from the setup. Otherwise why didnt you mention the P51B?
And you cant say you didnt notice the P51B was nixed because that would imply you did not care about it enough to notice - which likewise would imply you did care to notice the yak9u was removed. Again this is something you have been inconsitent about and now deny.
You know you would do your credibility a great service by simply addmiting the specific removal of your favorite Yak9U is what caused this post or at least what made the whining issue so dear to you...
At least that would be consiotent with your initial sentiments.
Just look at your inital post, everything is directed at the spacific removal of Yak9U...
Be honest... :)
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Boys, you are Incredible!:D
I considered the plane setup to this map many times with WMaker in November 2002. As Brady said we recommended both Yak-9U and P-51B to Russian plane's setup.
Anyway the main reason to those "Uber" planes was not historical, we simply want that Russe had ALL OVER BETTER PLANES than Finnish. And that was historical! :D
COUPLE OF FACTS:
* In summer 1944 the fighter balance was over 1:10 for the benefit of Russian. Finnish planes were commonly worn out old Brewsters, Curtiss Hawks, Morane Saulniers and even Fiat G50's.
* The only present time planes were 109 G2's (about 30 planes Spring 1943) and 109 G6's (about 200 planes Spring/Summer 1944).
* In our front was NEVER Yak-9U's and here were VERY FEW Yak-9T's, too. Most Yaks were model Yak-7!;)
* La-5's were not the better engined FN versions, they were mostly the "basic" LA-5 models.
* Finnish fighter pilots told that they shot down couple of Mustangs and even Spitfires. Propable they have mistaken with plane types: for ex. Spitfire looks very much like Yak. Research Officers has any information of those planes in Finnish Front.
* Russe had also many Bell Airacobra, MiG-3 and LaGG-3 fighters in Finnish front during The Continuation war 1941-1944.
SUMMARY:
After about half year CT-experience wit FinRus I have noticed that Brady's first setup is the most succesful in this map. Russian have however "Uber" versions of Yaks and La-5's. And Finland have Uber Brewster (FM2).
I am still missing Airacobra, MiG-3 and LaGG-3 to Russians. And Brewster to Finnish... and Curtiss Hawk... and even Morane Saulnier. ;)
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Grunherz, Grunherz... Grunherz.
You insist on calling me a liar and dishonest- YET. I would like proof that you know exactly what was going through my mind when I made the post.
As I've stated before. My first post was written late night after a very long 3 days. I didn't say what I'd intended to say very well. Look at the /rest/ of my posts. You, sir, seem to be a broken record stuck on the same single thing.
No, I did not notice the p51s had indeed been taken out until a few hours later. Why? Because I didn't jump on to fly a p51. The mere fact that I fly the yaks more often led me to notice the 9u was actually gone first.
I dunno, that makes a certain amount of sense to me; eh?
Now, if you insist on taking my 'credability' to task here- I'm done. I know I'm not lying, and I'm sure a fair number of other people got and understood my point so I see no reason to keep defending myself.
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Beating a dead horse here guys. Time to move on.