Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nash on June 17, 2003, 02:47:10 PM
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Well... the scattered mentions of racing sims by the folks here who play them have peaked my interest enough to give racing a go. The problem is, I can't remember which are worthy and which I should avoid.
Tonight I wanna pick up one racing sim and one steering wheel/pedals kit. What do you recommend? The ability/ease to race online is a big factor also.
(er, I *do* remember now that GPL is supposed to be a winner, so I'll have a look out for that. Which other besides that one then).
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F12002 gets my vote. Many very, very well done mods for the game after you get tired of the very, very well done box game.
I use the Microsoft Sidewinder wheel and pedals. Im not a big fan of "force feedback." I think a more accurate description would be "failed idea."
That LFS game Funked is always talking about is free (the demo at least) but I tired of it quickly.
There are other notable games, but at around $20 for F12K2, you get a great F1 sim and a boatload of other modifications as well. (GTR, 360 Challenge, M3 Challenge, Turbo Cup (in works I think), countless downloadable cars from MiniD's pride and joy to the Enzo.)
We should set up an F1 or GTR AH server some night this week.
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I just got F1 2002 and I'm pleasantly suprised.
Live for Speed is really entertaining, and free, and has very good close online racing: http://www.liveforspeed.net
Rally Trophy is my other favorite, but probably only available on eBay or another online source.
Racer and Netkar are also good free sims, but I don't care for Racer's physics / FF support, and Netkar doesn't support multiplayer or AI opponents yet.
I have a Logitech Wingman Formula Force wheel which works great, but I think it's not in production anymore. They have new version called the Momo Formula Foce or something like that.
The ACT Labs wheels and pedals look really great if I was buying now.
FF wheels are great on games that have good support for them, like LFS or Rally Trophy. On those games you get a great feel of what all four corners of the car are doing, and you can actually feel understeer or oversteer or a wheel locking like in a real car. Some developers don't get it though, so on some games it's not even worth having it. But you can always disable the effects and just run the wheel in spring/damper mode. For me it's worth it to have the FF for the really good games.
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GPL gets my vote. I don't understand why some folks don't like force feedback support. With the right settings, it is fabulous in GPL. In fact, I can't think what driving without FF would be like after having it for two years.
I use the Logitech MOMO wheel/pedals. Here's a pic:http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=13&CONTENTID=5025&countryid=19&languageid=1
With all the mods and new artwork that the GPL community has produced, I can't see GPL dying out anytime soon. I've been racing online every week for two years with the GROWL league, and it keeps getting better each time. You can find GPL for about $10 now in stores, or at chipsbits.com
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I dont have alot of experience with racing games but I played some F1 games with my Logitech FFB wheel. I dont like the FFB wheels, would recommend a standard wheel with heavy spring load like a Thrustmaster, Logitech non FFB, or one of those fancy expensive heavy duty wheels. I think the brand was Thompson or something but I cant find it anymore on the internet.
EDIT: Yep, see below.
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I think Mr. Coffee is talking about the Thomas Super Wheel: http://www.thomas-superwheel.com/
I know these guys from way back in the Compuserve Indycar Racing Association days (93 or 93). I have not tried one of these wheels but I understand they are really great.
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F12002 gets my vote, it's a pretty decent F1 sim but it's worth the price just for all the great mods that have been mentioned above with the GT2002 add-on being the most noteable for it's high quality...so good that I would have been happy to pay for it. I also like the odd game of Nascar Racing 2003 Season and Grand Prix Legends. I had Live for Speed on my system for a while but also bored of it after a while, it's good but it's hardly ground breaking.
I don't understand those who dislike FF wheels, GPL with the right settings is simply amazing and probably the best implementation of FF in any sim. I've tried different wheels since buying my first many moons ago which was a Thrustmaster T1. Looking back I can't believe how basic it was, a tacky hard plastic wheel and bungee cords to centre it. One wheel that did last me for years was a Sidewinder FF wheel (gameport) but my current wheel (Logitech MOMO) is the best yet. I thought the MS wheel was good but the FF on this wheel is great and the accuracy superb. When I bought the MOMO I was in the middle of a pretty tight hot lap competition with a friend on Colin McRae Rally 2 and was worried it might take me some time to get sed to the new wheel, on my first go I broke my own lap record as I was able to find the corners and balance the car much easier with the accuracy of the MOMO. The same was true with Nascar Racing, going three abreast used to be a little tricky but with the MOMO I found I could hold the groove much better and go round three abreast piggy in the middle and not dink the others. It's expensive but the FF and accuracy are second to none IMHO as is the gorgeous thick leather wheel.
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>I don't understand those who dislike FF wheels
My Logitech FFB is ok, my only gripe is that it doesnt pull strong enough back to center position. I mean a moving car would tend to pull the wheel back to center I think. The FFB stuff is ok actually but I think the centering of the wheel is more important. Even with setting set to max, there isnt enough force centering the wheel. Thats why I think I should have gotten a TM instead.
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What banana said. GPL(or NASCAR 2003) + Logitech MOMO FF wheel/pedals are the only way to go especially if you want to race online........
C.
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Great advice!!
Thanks tons... it's super helpful. Sounds like I better get all three (F12002, Nascar Racing 2003, and Grand Prix Legends). I look forward to joining y'all online shortly.
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
F12002 gets my vote. Many very, very well done mods for the game after you get tired of the very, very well done box game.
I use the Microsoft Sidewinder wheel and pedals. Im not a big fan of "force feedback." I think a more accurate description would be "failed idea."
I second the motion. EA's F1 sims are more than just an F1 sim once you d/l the sports car packs for it. Check out http://www.rsdg.net for starters.
MS Sidewinder wheel and pedals - $50 - all I need. Don't bother with FF.
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looks like all bases are covered, I don't need to add anything +)
SKurj
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Try this (http://f1hq.racesimcentral.com/site/page.php?pagina=nieuws.dat&titel=nieuws) site for news on available and upcoming mods for F12002.
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Just got back from the store.
They didn't have F12002 or GPL, so I'm going to have to look somewhere else for those.... prolly tomorrow. I did get Sierra's NASCAR Racing 2003 Season though... I hope that's the version you guys are talking about.
Also, I picked up one of them fancy shmancy Logitech MOMO Force Feedback wheels and pedals. I sure hope it turns out that I like racing sims. :)
Just going through the process of setting everything up now. Thanks again for the help... but don't be suprised if I pop back in here every now and then to ask stupid questions. :)
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Thats a really nice wheel there (the Logitech MOMO). I personally have a Logitech FF wheel and NASCAR Racing 2002 and 2003 (personal favorite is 2003). I think you will be pleased and you should look for GPL soon. I think that you will find that car sim racing is nearly as addictive as online flight sims are.
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Here's a place you can find GPL: http://www.chipsbits.com/cgi-bin/order.cbi_home
Getting back to FF. I can't emphasize how important FF is to driving in GPL. You can feel when the car puts a wheel off the track into the rough, you can feel when you're starting to lose grip, and you can feel when the camber of the road changes. I just don't see how that could be a bad thing. Driving purely by site without any tactile feedback from the road is a serious disadvantage, IMO. Revvin stated the quality of FF in GPL very eloquently above.
Isn't that leather on the MOMO sweet? Even Ricardo Montalban would approve! :)
BTW Nash, when you get GPL, you'll have a boatload of patches and art files to download and install. Just holler when you're ready. Don't take the ugly original look of the sim as what it'll be when you're done. The GPL of 2003 is tons prettier than the original art from 1998.
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Hi,
GPL & LFS
I also recommend FFB for realistic racecar simulators. My GPL laptimes improve a lot with FFB.
BTW maximum FFB force setting is not good for your lap time.
You should just feel a bit of feedback when cornering on the limit of the grip, not wrestling with the wheel all over.
Best original car sound in GPL is in Ferrari. OMG!
IRL I dont care/like red F too much :p
Go Kimi Go!
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NASCAR Racing 2002 and 2003 by Sierra/Papyrus are worth the time and money. NR2003 is the last iteration by Sierra/Papyrus and is destined to be a legend, just like GPL has become (thanks for posting that link, banana. I haven't been able to find a copy locally either).
While you're ordering GPL from Chips n Bits, you should order F1 2002, too.
I think you'll enjoy them. :)
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Two years ago I entered the world of sim racing and never looked back. You’ve been warned.
GPL – Awesome sim, spent enough time on it to enter the dark side. :cool:
F1-2002 – A real blast with force feedback especially bouncing over those rumble strips.
NASCAR 2003 – The most accurate racing simulator for the pc.
If you have N2003 and a MOMO Force you’ll also require an Act-Labs shifter with a four-speed plate. The first time you brake and downshift from 4th to 2nd at the Inner Loop at Watkins Glen you’ll have a smile on your face that you couldn’t wipe off with a crow bar. :)
http://www.act-labs.com/scripts/proddetails.asp?pid=79
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>BTW maximum FFB force setting is not good for your lap time.
>You should just feel a bit of feedback when cornering on the
>limit of the grip, not wrestling with the wheel all over.
Beyond the limit of adhesion on the tires, the wheel should feel fairly light then lighter. I have a standard logitech FF wheel. So I turn up the forces causing it to center better but then I have to fight the wheel a bit. There should be an extra setting or something for wheel centering on my FF wheel.
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Well I havent played racing games for a while. All this talk about F1 2002 and the GTR mods has got me thinking about getting it and doing some online racing. Never raced online before so I might give it a try. Course, I'll want to race with some of you guys online (especially funkedup) so long as you drive like gentlemen. Im not playing any games at the moment so I'll have a few hours for this.
;)
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GPL runs better online than GTR/F1 2002. In GPL a decent cable or dsl hookup should allow you to run 8 or more guys.
GTR/F12002, the same connect I can run 8+ on in GPL, I can run NO more than 5
SKurj
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
>BTW maximum FFB force setting is not good for your lap time.
>You should just feel a bit of feedback when cornering on the
>limit of the grip, not wrestling with the wheel all over.
Beyond the limit of adhesion on the tires, the wheel should feel fairly light then lighter. I have a standard logitech FF wheel. So I turn up the forces causing it to center better but then I have to fight the wheel a bit. There should be an extra setting or something for wheel centering on my FF wheel.
There is an extra setting for centering on Logitech wheels. "Enable Centering Spring"
(http://www.raf303.org/funked/wingman.png)
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You can run 19 players in an online race in GPL. 30+ easily in NASCAR 2003. F12002 is great offline, but its multiplayer blows.
Why in the world would you want to have the wheel "re-center"??? No way you go fast or stay in control with that(i'm imagining the back section at Zandvoort with a wheel set up like that).
My settings(and they are what most people use):
Overal Effects Strength: 100%(150% is way too strong)
Spring Effect Strength: 0%
Damper Effect Strength: 0%
Enable Centering Spring: Checked, but left at 0%
There are also very critical settings for the GPL core.ini file. For one, to enable ForceFeedback. And others to fine tune the FF....
My GPL core.ini(Logitech MOMO FF)
[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1
force_feedback_damping = 200.000000
force_feedback_latency = 0.0001
max_steering_torque = 250.000000
Cabby
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When ya get all set up on NASCAR 2003 Season...let me know your ID in the game...I'd be happy to run with ya there anytime I can. Go to EAST Lobby and look for the ID. C5VETTE. Ill race with ya...show ya what I can...Been at it a few years now. Good Luck. Youll like it alot.:)
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Thanks for advice. I have a Logitech WingMan Formula™ Force so it may not have that setting unless that GUI you posted is from the game. Either way, I can still drive it, its just that if the game or newer software which I have to download has this setting then that would be better.
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I have the same exact wheel. It's in the Logitech Profiler under Specific Game Settings. If you don't have the latest version of the profiler and the drivers go here: http://www.wingmanteam.com
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I've run into a bit of a snag.... NASCAR 2003 will only run once. If I close it and try to play it again later, it won't launch.
What happens is, I double click on the icon to run it (either the one on the desktop or the one on the CD), the hourglass timer appears and I hear the CD start whirring.... then 5 seconds later it all stops... and nothing happens.
The only way I can play again is if I uninstall the game and reinstall it. Then it works perfectly, but again, only the one time.
It's a bit much to have to uninstall and reinstall every time I wanna play. I've checked the forums on Sierra and a few other people have posted about having this same problem, but no solution has been found by any of them yet. Anyone here know by any chance?
I've ordered GPL from Chips and Bits, but delivery is gonna take 7-10 days... so I cheated and downloaded it from Kaaza to tied me over until it gets here. It's a very cool sim but deadly difficult as I'm sure y'all have noticed. :) I spend more time in the dirt than I do on the track..
I added that string to the ini file Cabby, to give me force feedback... but that didn't take... it's not working for some reason.
I applied a few other patches and graphics add-ons, but there are so many... I sure wish there were one web page that lists everything you wanna apply. So far, some stuff I've added might be old that I don't want or need, some might be the wrong stuff, and I'm probably missing other stuff that I should have.
Uhm... So far it's been a bit frustrating trying to get sorted out, but that's the way it is when ya get started - it's the same thing for flight sims... so it doesn't really bother me so much.
Oh - I also wish there was a file for GPL that sets my car up optimaly... the right suspension settings etc. I'm definitaly NOT a car guy, so none of this is very intuitive.
Oh - and how do I hook up with folks online in GPL?
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Hi Nash,
GPL beginers guide (patching, HW setup etc) and much much more
http://www.racesimcentral.com/guides/gpl/intro/gplintro.shtml
Also hardware & driving hints
http://website.lineone.net/~richardn/
Eagle women GPL pages
http://eaglewoman.simracing.dk/gpl/index.htm
Happy midsummer party!!! :D
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Nash, try this link the only GPL link you need.
the Ultimate GPL link (http://www.gplpp.com)
I see the guys at SBDT, (GTR 2002) are thinking about going professional.
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Nash, here's the url to the GROWL league, which has been together and racing online in GPL for over two years. Please have a look and sign up for a free account on speedgeezers so that you can post and start a dialogue with us. We'll get you up and running in no time. :)
http://forums.speedgeezers.com/cgi-bin/iB311/ikonboard.cgi?;act=SF;f=18
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>The only way I can play again is if I uninstall the game and
>reinstall it. Then it works perfectly, but again, only the one time.
Nash, this is just a guess because I have never played NASCAR 2003 but you might want to try reseting the resolution or other graphics settings then giving it another try. Alot of games rebuild and relink their 3d objects for efficiency each time you make changes to the graphics settings. After your initial install and system config, you may be crashing with the objects then corrupted. I've run into similar situations with other games and what I do is reset the resolution or other GFX settings. Sometimes a patch eventually fixes the problem.
A general question for guys who have played both F12002 and GPL. Which game is more realistic in terms of the driving physics and which game provides better car/track setup features? Seems like GPL has alot of setup features, how about F12002?
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F1 2002 (at least GTR 2002) reminds me more of driving a real car than GPL. Of course I don't drive 1967 GP cars in real life. :)
The F1 cars in F1 2002 remind me a lot of driving a kart. Which seems OK because a lot of F1 drivers use karts to prepare for driving their race car.
Both GPL and F1 2002 have more setup options than I care to use.
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This site has a alot of F1 history. Im planning on getting the Turbo mod for F1 2002 then I'll race you funked in my Turbo charged Mclaren. Hehe just joking.
;)
http://www.f1db.com/grandprix/id/19910310
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I don't know whether to hate you guys for this thread or not.
the last thing I need is another game (not to mention another controller lol) to kill time on. But I'll be damned if that GTR2002 isn't burrowing deep into my brain.
Does anyone know if they have a 2003 ALMS car set for it?
-Sik
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You ain't kiddin Sikboy! Thanks to funked I'm now addicted to LFS! Gawd is that fun! :D
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
(http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6/sig/log_off.gif)
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ehem, the most powerfull F1 car in history.
:D
Mclaren MP-4/4. It was Mclarens last turbocharged car.
http://www.geocities.com/puckusa/mclaren-mp4-4.html
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Originally posted by flakbait
You ain't kiddin Sikboy! Thanks to funked I'm now addicted to LFS! Gawd is that fun! :D
LFS is great. Good ole door-banging fun. :)
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Originally posted by MrCoffee
ehem, the most powerfull F1 car in history.
:D
Mclaren MP-4/4. It was Mclarens last turbocharged car.
http://www.geocities.com/puckusa/mclaren-mp4-4.html
Actually by that point the fuel and engine regulations had reduced power. In 1986 both BMW and Honda had special qualifying engines putting out about 1,300 hp.
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Just played few mins with "Colin McRae Rally 3" and my first thoughts were "this game sucks".
Guess Codemasters should take few lessons from Bugbear (makers of Rally Trophy) how to built a game where the cars behave like in "real world".
I was wonderin what Bugbear is doing right now and found "Flat-Out" (http://www.bugbear.fi/flatout.htm). Guess they've made also a Flight MOdel (http://www.bugbear.fi/images/screenshots/fo_shot4.jpg) for that game :)
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btw about horsepowers:
Interserie Porsche 917/30 was putting out 1100hp @ 1,3kg boost (1112nm torque!) but could be kicked up to 1500hp @ 2,25kg boost when some extra power was required.
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I tried LFS again. It just seems like slow motion after F12002.
Cool though.
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nascar racing season 2003 is a kick...
when drinking try the arcade mode...
if not, and you want it to be the most realistic with the best physics do full real..
it rocks.
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Originally posted by Staga
Just played few mins with "Colin McRae Rally 3" and my first thoughts were "this game sucks".
Guess Codemasters should take few lessons from Bugbear (makers of Rally Trophy) how to built a game where the cars behave like in "real world".
I was wonderin what Bugbear is doing right now and found "Flat-Out" (http://www.bugbear.fi/flatout.htm). Guess they've made also a Flight MOdel (http://www.bugbear.fi/images/screenshots/fo_shot4.jpg) for that game :)
Yeah CMR3 sucks.
RT is great. I wish Bugbear would make a WRC sim.
Actually we could mod RT to be WRC (there are car editors and track editors), but there is no provision in the physics model for a center differential. So about as far as we can go is early 80's Group B with RWD (Lancia 037 etc)
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Yah, the one thing that threw me off in F12002 is the rear posy traction 409 4 speed dual quad fuel injected differential cam lobbed radial joint flange.
I ported the injector by 3/10ths, and did the rocker arm mod, lol. Guys were calling me a cheat!
I mean, I got 250 horsepower stock in the GTP, and Funky pants wished like he anticipates Dripsnore, ala “Country Bernie” to fly in with speed stories. I dig that, and modded my camshaft out, infused a cadmium slip joint on the rocker panel intake too.
The blower is kicked out too.
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Aww Creamo diddums get confused by the big words? :)
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Anyways isn't it a bit early to be hitting the vodka?