Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: cpxxx on June 17, 2003, 07:05:16 PM
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There was a program on the the BBC tonight which debated the global attitudes to America. It carried the results of a poll taken around the world. I missed the show but no doubt it was described by both sides as completely biased which probably means as usual the BBC got it right in the middle.
I notice a lot of debate here on this very subject so I thought I'd post a couple of links I found which may illuminate.
This is the results of the poll. I did think the question 'Who do you think is more dangerous America or country X' was rather silly and meaningless. As you might notice the usual suspects were against America but it still has good if sometimes sceptical friends.
What I found most interesting was Descriptions of America section. Most agree with Americans themselves that Americans are 'arrogant, friendly, united, religious and free'. I broadly agree but while I have met arrogant Americans they were the exception. One or two who post on this bulletin board fit the description only too well!!!!
Everyone likes US movies though!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/wtwta/poll/html/default.stm
This link describes a debate which highlights differences in attitude between Americans and the rest of the world to patriotism and nationalism. I tried to describe that myself in another thread. This has led to major misunderstandings on this forum.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2970424.stm
Quote:
Mr Pei argues that US nationalism is based on grass-roots civic activism, and the private use of symbols like the flag, the national anthem, and pledge of allegiance has no parallel in other countries where the government itself promotes nationalism.
Finally this is another poll limited to Europe only. It's on an Irish website which is why the Irish score is highlighted. There seems to be a North South split here with likes of the UK, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark and Holland more favourably disposed towards America than the southern countries. The UK being most favourable. Greece is very anti which is surprising.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2003/06/17/story102942.html
So now you know which countries you should visit and which you should avoid if you're planning a vacation to Europe this year. Naturally I suggest Ireland. There are some good deals going because of the drop in tourists here this year, the sun is even shining nearly every day. Plus it's only six hours flying from the East coast. :) :cool:
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Personally, I couldn't care less what the world thinks of the US, I leave that to liberals.
But since you mention the BBC, I have to mention my observations. I've watched many BBC news reports of the US wars in Afganistan and Iraq, and I noticed every time a deeply sinister depiction of the US. In each of the reports I saw, the US was depicted as dangerous, stupid cowboys who eventually get their way despite their own unfathomable stupidity. If the US was not doing well it was depicted as gross incompetence, if the US was winning it was just an incompetent giant prevailing through sheer hugeness. The last report I saw had the 'expert' saying that the reason US troops in Iraq are not trained in crowd control and other civil enforcement actions is because of a cadre of conservative Republicans in the administration who control the agenda. I doubt that even many liberal Americans believe that, but every story about US military action just has to have dark political overtones.
In the US most of the media adapted a liberal slant over the years, especially before Fox came along and stole the ratings. I suspect the same is true with the BBC, but that there are no other major news outlets to offer another viewpoint.
ra
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I say you should travel to which ever country you find most appealing.
Not like its going to be more dangerous being american in some parts of europe than the other nationalities..
Avoiding buying product from- or visiting an european country, which does not support US political view, even though you'd like it otherwise, only makes you a hypocrit.
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Originally posted by ra
Personally, I couldn't care less what the world thinks of the US, I leave that to liberals.
But since you mention the BBC, I have to mention my observations. I've watched many BBC news reports of the US wars in Afganistan and Iraq, and I noticed every time a deeply sinister depiction of the US. In each of the reports I saw, the US was depicted as dangerous, stupid cowboys who eventually get their way despite their own unfathomable stupidity. If the US was not doing well it was depicted as gross incompetence, if the US was winning it was just an incompetent giant prevailing through sheer hugeness. The last report I saw had the 'expert' saying that the reason US troops in Iraq are not trained in crowd control and other civil enforcement actions is because of a cadre of conservative Republicans in the administration who control the agenda. I doubt that even many liberal Americans believe that, but every story about US military action just has to have dark political overtones.
In the US most of the media adapted a liberal slant over the years, especially before Fox came along and stole the ratings. I suspect the same is true with the BBC, but that there are no other major news outlets to offer another viewpoint.
ra
What tells me that the BBC is doing a great job is that everyone thinks the BBC is biased against them. The US, the Iraqis, the French and Russians, AL Jazeera, Tony Blair, Iain Duncan Smith and my aged grandmother.
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Originally posted by Pei
What tells me that the BBC is doing a great job is that everyone thinks the BBC is biased against them. The US, the Iraqis, the French and Russians, AL Jazeera, Tony Blair, Iain Duncan Smith and my aged grandmother.
When the Liberal govt. had a go at the ABC for the same thing..that surely implied they were doing an unbiased good job.
Tronsky
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Hell, americans are arrogant for a damned good reason.
We have the best real estate on the planet.
PS to you non Americans: Go Fu*k yourselves, send us the bill.
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If you are looking for journalism, you will find the BBC, lieing just underneath the New York Times which is just underneath whale sh#t!
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Gee, I'm so concerned about what others think about America.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Gee, I'm so concerned about what others think about America.
Yup, you are.
Or you are indifferent to those who think America is the Great Satan and would like to destroy it and kill all those living in it? If you're not with us, you're against us! Terrorist sympathizer!
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Originally posted by Erlkonig
Or you are indifferent to those who think America is the Great Satan and would like to destroy it and kill all those living in it?
Well I'm sure he cares what you think... :D
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lol cpxxx, telling americans that their country isn't the greatest nation in history is taking a risk :)
Replies such as Yeager's are bound to come.
From a few personal experiences, Sky news give the best and most accurate reports although somewhat brief.
BBC reports are good and in depth, but slightly emphesize one point of view.
CNN is near worthless. Their most important theme is to broadcast the news as quickly as possible, saying incorrect things and correcting them on the fly as they gather the information. Also reports are very shallow.
Never watched FOX.
I don't have a TV anymore so I get all my news from the radio and pappers. Don't know if those news stations changed.
America is a great nation, but it does also have it's down sides which a lot of american refuse to see and are easily insulted when mentioned.
Bozon
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I watched this program as it was aired on BBC2 at 9pm. They had surveyed people in 11 different countries across many continents. Peter Snow introduced the statistical data, and apologised for the fact that Africa could not be represented - logistical problems.
The 11 countries were the US, UK, Germany, France, Israel, Brazil, Indonesia, Russia, Jordan, South Korea and one other, with representatives from Pakistan and Palestine. People had been asked if they thought America was right or wrong to invade Iraq. Needless to say, Israel was hugely supportive of the US, as they should be given that they receive $3bn US aid each year. Jordan hates America's guts. MOST people don't trust George Bush. There were various quotes from personalities: "America scares me" - Tom Cruise. One from Saddam about America reaping the thorns in the harvest from the rulers it has planted around the world. One from Osama BL - something about America is nowhere near as strong on the inside as on the outside. Dowding's girlfriend (Clare Short) was interviewed, and she felt that America had become scary since 911 in the same way as a wounded animal is apt to be aggressive and lash out. The South Korean guy had something interesting to say. A poll in his country revealed that its people were more afraid of America than of North Korea.
I watched the whole thing, and there were no real surprises. At the end, I was left with the very strong impression that the vast majority of those who had participated in the various polls had never been to the US.
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Sky News is ran by the 'Dirty Digger' and as such is an extension of his self-promotion endeavours along with the rest of the empire. Adverts masquerading as news are very prominent in all his publications.
Never seen Fox but I'd guess it would follow the pattern of Sky News.
The BBC is probably the best news service in the world, carrying news on the BBC World Service to all points of the compass, from Africa to China to South America. The lack of any commerical interests lends it more credibility in many areas, particularly when discussing the media in general - unlike the 'Dirty Digger' who often bars negative reporting of interests close to the commercial success of his empire.
In recent years, since the launch of it's News 24, 24 hour station, I'd say reporting has been dumbed down. But they still have some great correspondants. Kate Adie, John Simpson and other stalwarts still feature in programs that have are not featured on the 24 hour service. The 'Correspondant' program on terrestrial TV is probably the best journalism available right now - some real eye openers about 'off the beaten track' issues can be had. A similar program on radio is also brilliant.
Yeager - going on your last comment I'd say you're the kind of guy described in another thread about Chino and burger vans. Do you want mustard with that?
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I think the quote from Saddam Hussein is very apt.
Beatle - the idea was to interview people about their views on the US and the influence the US has on their lives. You don't need to have been to the US to answer such questions. The show was ok, but nothing special.
I had to chuckle at the SKs. Either something is going on in SK that we are not told about, or they are absolutely bonkers.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Beatle - the idea was to interview people about their views on the US and the influence the US has on their lives. You don't need to have been to the US to answer such questions.
I agree - to a point.
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Ra, GRUNHERZ, NUKE, Syzygyone, Yeager. I think you must the arrogant Americans they were talking about.
Not caring about what the rest of the world thinks of America led directly to 911.
You need to care because it effects you whether you like it or not. There are American soldiers in dozens of countries looking after American interests. Perhaps you don't care about them either?
Reading the survey it's obvious that many people out there in the world still have a positive view of America and are friends. Your attitude will only make more enemies. Is that what you want?
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Not caring about what the rest of the world thinks of America led directly to 911.
You mean 911 was perpetrated by the whole world? 911 led directly to me not caring what the rest of the world thinks of the US.
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they hate us till we save their ass
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Originally posted by Eagler
they hate us till we save their bellybutton
Then they still hate us (Osama was supplied arms by the US while fighting the Russians 1979-late 80's)
When you're #1, there is always someone looking to knock you down. Human nature.
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Guys, America is a great country and is doing some very necessary work right now in respect of global security.
But, to sit back and smugly say that you don't care what anyone thinks about Americans is somewhat of an uneducated "knee-jerk" BBS reaction.
There is something called international policy and diplomacy that America as a country is spending billions every year persuing. Obviously your government cares about what other countries and people think.
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ra the point is that 911 proves you need to care. The whole world didn't perpretrate 911. It was done by a few people who hate America. Yet you antagonise the people who favour America still. Luckily I think you represent a minority of Americans.
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Originally posted by blue1
ra the point is that 911 proves you need to care.
No, its not that we need to care about people who hate us...that is the CIA, FBI and ATF's job and they need to be funded properly (as they were not in the 90's) to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Why should the avg. American care about a maniacal Muslim extreme fundamentalist ? Thats not our business. Our business is to elect leaders that fund programs that keep an eye on these guys.
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Originally posted by blue1
ra the point is that 911 proves you need to care. The whole world didn't perpretrate 911. It was done by a few people who hate America. Yet you antagonise the people who favour America still. Luckily I think you represent a minority of Americans.
Do you think the people who perpetrated 911 love your country?
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well... we may or may not care what other countries think about us but...
you won't be watching any government sponsered "news" in America that interviews people around the world on the subject of how they feel about england say. maybe get a few english movie stars to give their learned opinions just to make it all legit.
lazs
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Originally posted by Curval
Guys, America is a great country and is doing some very necessary work right now in respect of global security.
But, to sit back and smugly say that you don't care what anyone thinks about Americans is somewhat of an uneducated "knee-jerk" BBS reaction.
There is something called international policy and diplomacy that America as a country is spending billions every year persuing. Obviously your government cares about what other countries and people think.
I am educated, and I personally could care less what other countries and people think. The US is like the popular guy in your neighborhood. He's good looking, wealthy, strong, and athletic. Everyone squeakes about him, but wishes they could be him. They squeak from safety, because he'd kick your bellybutton if you messed with him.
I tend to ignore the jealous bantering of wannabe countries. Until they tick me off.
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Originally barfed by Yeager
PS to you non Americans: Go Fu*k yourselves, send us the bill.
that makes it clear then.
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How come no one has posted a poll to see what Americans think about the rest of the world? I think all you America haters woudl be surprised at the results. But, then again, your rampant jealousy would still blind you!
:D :D
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It's ok Syz, we know what the Xenophobes already believe. They are as vocal as a Bin Laden devotee and just as annoying.
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Originally posted by blue1
Ra, GRUNHERZ, NUKE, Syzygyone, Yeager. I think you must the arrogant Americans they were talking about.
Not caring about what the rest of the world thinks of America led directly to 911.
You need to care because it effects you whether you like it or not. There are American soldiers in dozens of countries looking after American interests. Perhaps you don't care about them either?
Reading the survey it's obvious that many people out there in the world still have a positive view of America and are friends. Your attitude will only make more enemies. Is that what you want?
I know, I know, we're supposed to turn the other cheek, which, in order to make UBL and the world happy, would mean throwing out the constitution, returning to the stone ages, subjugating women, and etc etc etc. Get a clue Blue1. There is nothin quite so false as your self righteous mea culpa attitude. What happend on 9/11 was not the U.S.'s fault. The world ain't no popularity contest, or didn't you now that. It's a matter of survival, regardless of what all the weak contries of the world wish differently! It is not arrogance. It's a will to survive!
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Yes. Telling people to go **** themself on a BBS is 'the will to survive'. True 'Eye of the Tiger' stuff. Yay.
Remember - Grrr!
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hmm interesting.....a bash the stupid american thread:D
on 1 side you supply the jew with WEAPONS of mass destruction.....open your eyes...they do have NUKE weapons WHICH they shouldn't have.....yet you close your eyes......you do not put pressure on the jew to let the UN peacekeepers in and KEEP the peace...which they could do.
on the other side your create the extremist muslims......you close your eyes and say...whatta bunch of ****in nutcases.....but alas.....19 of those nutcases really got your attention on 9/11.....
keep your eyes closed.....and PRAY real hard that chimpy can stop the NEXT 1 from happenning.....
but who cares what the world thinks of you....right.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Martlet
I am educated, and I personally could care less what other countries and people think. The US is like the popular guy in your neighborhood. He's good looking, wealthy, strong, and athletic. Everyone squeakes about him, but wishes they could be him. They squeak from safety, because he'd kick your bellybutton if you messed with him.
I tend to ignore the jealous bantering of wannabe countries. Until they tick me off.
Your analology is sad Martlet,
I've traveled extensively and attended schools in the Untited States.
The popular guy in the neighborhood in the US is admired worshiped and given all that life has to offer based on his popularity and good looks. No-one squeakes about him..everyone wants to be him.
I don't wannabe American..I like Americans.
I just don't like it that you cannot take any criticism..no matter how small.
Your "he'd kick your ass" and "until they tick me off" sounds like a neighborhood bully...not a sensible educated response.
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Originally posted by Yeager
Hell, americans are arrogant for a damned good reason.
We have the best real estate on the planet.
PS to you non Americans: Go Fu*k yourselves, send us the bill.
Why guys like u arent born in Kongo or Somalia and have to live there? U think only because u got born in the USA accidently gives u the right to be be arrogant?
Tells me that ur thinking is very limited.
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Originally posted by blue1
Not caring about what the rest of the world thinks of America led directly to 911.
bullcrap
well funded motivated nutcases led to 9/11
there will always be those who will hate America no matter what she does, who her allies, policies are or aren't, you can't make everyone happy all the time
it's real clear .... you are with us or you are against us
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Wow I come back and find this thread hijacked by a bunch of extremists. This was not a Bash America thread. I was trying to point out that not everyone out here hates America. Yet half the replies seem out to prove that being arrogant and ignorant at the same time is considered a good thing by some of you. If I didn't know what Americans were really like I'd be worried. Some of you not only can't take any criticism you can't even take a compliment. What is wrong with you?
If I could delete this thread now I would.
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No doubt we Americans believe we live in the greatest Country ever, however this chest popunding BS reminds me of Jr. high school.
The truely great have no need to shout it to the masses.
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Damn, some ponds are just packed full of fish, others are fished out..
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I have been to many parts of America, lived and worked there, and have known many Americans. And there is little doubt in my mind that the Americans who post on this BBS do not form a representative sample of the US population.
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Originally posted by beet1e
I have been to many parts of America, lived and worked there, and have known many Americans. And there is little doubt in my mind that the Americans who post on this BBS do not form a representative sample of the US population.
Well, that just proves you haven't been to the best parts of America! :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well, that just proves you haven't been to the best parts of America! :D
I bet he's talking about chimpy's region.........Redneck country:D
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i usually read these type of threads and take them with a grain of salt, i for 1 realise that most of the world does not like the USA, alot of the world business leaders do, we have here in my part of flyover country in the USA, a BMW plant, Michelin plant , Fuji films, Ryobi, it seems most parts of the USA are quite service oriented or tourism areas for the cheif source of income, her we must really on manufacturing and we welcome outside companies into or area and we are thankful for them fyi is all.
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Just relax cpxx.
The only problem I have with polls like this is that they mean nothing and have little or nothing to do with what "the world" thinks of America.
They didn't even bother to poll Germany or Japan , which seems a little odd.
Maybe a poll of every country in Europe, Asia and the middle east would have been interesting to see though, good or bad.
This particular poll is pretty meaningless in my opinion.
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Originally posted by SLO
I bet he's talking about chimpy's region.........Redneck country:D
Oh...you must mean these tiny little sections indicated in red?
(http://images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg)
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Arrgh! My eyes Rude! I live in BLUE country....Noooooooo!
Anyway...Jerry Jeff Walker said it best in a song...
"If you don't like the way I'm living, you just leave this long-haired Country boy alone" However, I'm bald today..:D
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Originally posted by Rude
Oh...you must mean these tiny little sections indicated in red?
(http://images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg)
10,000,000 people in Los Angeles County and 10,000 people in some little jerk water county. That's a good comparison.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
I broadly agree but while I have met arrogant Americans they were the exception. One or two who post on this bulletin board fit the description only too well!!!!
No, can't be!
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Originally posted by Rude
Oh...you must mean these tiny little sections indicated in red?
It's an election, not a war. Votes, as in people and population, matter far more than geography.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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quote:
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's an election, not a war. Votes, as in people and population, matter far more than geography.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Not according to our constitution......
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Originally posted by Udie
Not according to our constitution......
Perhaps you didn't read my statement. Votes matter more than geography. I'm curious for your rebuttal to this.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Perhaps you didn't read my statement. Votes matter more than geography. I'm curious for your rebuttal to this.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Ahh, the snobbish fence-sitter politician-wanna-be reply...:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Ahh, the snobbish fence-sitter politician-wanna-be reply...:rolleyes:
err... huh?
-- Todd/Leviathn
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DMF
the States are aportioned electorial votes by population,it is up to the States how to award the votes after the general election,(most states use "winner take all", but some split up the vote)
the canadate with the most electorial votes wins.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Perhaps you didn't read my statement. Votes matter more than geography. I'm curious for your rebuttal to this.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Yes I did misread you're post. But it was due to the fact that you were replying to Rude's picture of how the country fell along geographical lines in the last election. I took you're post as saying that the votes in the larger population centers mattered more than the less populated areas. Sorry for the missunderstanding.
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Originally posted by john9001
DMF
the States are aportioned electorial votes by population,it is up to the States how to award the votes after the general election,(most states use "winner take all", but some split up the vote)
the canadate with the most electorial votes wins.
Thanks, john, I'm pretty familiar with the process. :) Let me punctuate my point about population vs. geography with an example. Let's say that in the next election, California, Texas, Pennsylvania, Florida, New York, and Ohio all vote for the Democratic candidate (far-fetched, I know, but bear with me). Every remaining state votes for George W. Bush. The end result: the Democratic nominee wins while Bush, despite garnerning a vast majority of the square acreage of the country, loses. Just imagine the acreage he'd acquire with Alaska alone, and yet still he'd lose.
Why? Because those states supporting the Democratic candidate in this example constitute a majority or a near-majority of the country's population regardless of geographic area. The rules grant electoral votes based on population, after all, and the winner-takes-all system further empowers the high population states.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Based on my personal observations in travel around the country, there is an inverse relationship between population density and intelligence. So maybe we would be better off weighting votes by acreage rather than population. :)
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Thanks, john, I'm pretty familiar with the process. :) Let me punctuate my point about population vs. geography with an example. Let's say that in the next election, California, Texas, Pennsylvania, Florida, New York, and Ohio all vote for the Democratic candidate (far-fetched, I know, but bear with me). Every remaining state votes for George W. Bush. The end result: the Democratic nominee wins while Bush, despite garnerning a vast majority of the square acreage of the country, loses. Just imagine the acreage he'd acquire with Alaska alone, and yet still he'd lose.
Why? Because those states supporting the Democratic candidate in this example constitute a majority or a near-majority of the country's population regardless of geographic area. The rules grant electoral votes based on population, after all, and the winner-takes-all system further empowers the high population states.
-- Todd/Leviathn
I'd say that the 2000 election worked the exact opposite way of your example. Still a good example though.
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I think what a lot of guys are missing is that....
What is the intent of these polls? Have you ever seen an American poll that polls a bunch of countries about how they feel about england? what if we did and then anounced that the world felt that england was prissy and aloof but law abiding. would the brits on this BB focus on the law abiding or the prissy and aloof? What if some of the ones most disgruntled were british 'artists'?
Wouldn't the brits wonder why we had bothered to single them out for evaluation and wouldn't they suspect our results, especialy, the negative ones?
You ask us to not be arrogant and yet.... most of you focus a great deal of attention on us... We seem to occupy a good deal of your thoughts.
go figure.
lazs
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exactly which part defines REDNECK country slo??? annd exactly what is your definition of redneck? someone who does not speak french? or someone who had to much sex with there mum?:eek:, btw look left this moons for you:D
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Originally posted by Udie
I'd say that the 2000 election worked the exact opposite way of your example. Still a good example though.
True, but the 2000 election can hardly be called ordinary. No presidential election in American history required Supreme Court intervention, and it was only the second one where the winner of the popular vote failed to win the general election. I'd call it an outlier and move on. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
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LOL - Lazs hates England! Well, he doesn't hate it else he wouldn't come here. But I think it's got under his skin a little bit. ;) Funny that a little pissant country can do that to Lazs. :confused:
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
True, but the 2000 election can hardly be called ordinary. No presidential election in American history required Supreme Court intervention, and it was only the second one where the winner of the popular vote failed to win the general election. I'd call it an outlier and move on. :)
-- Todd/Leviathn
I surely hope you're right!! I don't think I could handle another election like that!
:)
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lazs.. you hate england?
I didn't think you gave it that much thought... I know I didn't.
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hey now! come on guys remember England is on our side! But I'd like to make one request of England. Could you send Dowding and his "life partner" to france? :D
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To quote an illustrious BBS poster:
"Go f*ck yourself, banana."
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gore :: i want a recount
electors:: you lost
gore:: i want another recount
electors :: you lost again
gore ::i want another recount
electors ::you still lose
gore ::i want.....
super court :: shut up
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
It's an election, not a war. Votes, as in people and population, matter far more than geography.
-- Todd/Leviathn
The reply was merely a grasp at some cheap entertainment on my part....very selfish of me....I'm sorry.
As to votes, I wish this nations electorate would do just that, vote. Maybe this next one won't have such a poor turnout.
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nope... don't hate england at all. simply pointing out the blatant hypocricy and what would appear to be their obsession with America...
just like the rest of America... I don't give england much thought one way or the other.
I was glad to have them fight beside us and interested in their effort. I am not interested in their neurosis about America. What the BBC thinks is even less of interest to me.
lazs
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Originally posted by john9001
gore :: i want a recount
electors:: you lost
gore:: i want another recount
electors :: you lost again
gore ::i want another recount
electors ::you still lose
gore ::i want.....
super court :: shut up
revisionist!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
revisionist!
yes that's true it was more like this.....
Gore: I want a recount
Bush: I won the state, now play by the rules.
Electors: Mr. Gore you still lose
Gore: Every vote must count! I want a recount, but only 2 democrat counties.
Bush: I won the state, now play by the rules.
Electors: Mr. Gore you still lose.
Gore: I demand every vote must count! Now do a recount of the 2 democrat counties, and forget about the military votes.
Bush: I won the state, now play by the rules.
Electors: Mr. Gore you still lose.
State Court: We'll try and help you Herr Gore, Every vote must count, so count only 2 democrat counties.
Bush: I won the state, now play by the rules.
US Court: Play by the rules Mr. Gore, you can count all the votes or none of the votes.
Bush: I won the state.....
Gore:
EVERY MAJOR NEWS PAPER IN AMERICA: after our intense review of all the ballots. Mr. Gore loses......
What the hell kind of LOSER wins the popular vote and loses the election? Oh yeah, Al Gore.
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Gore couldn't even win his home state of Tenessee. That should result in automatic loss of the election, plus permanent exile from the country. He could move to France and invent the eclair.
ra
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Originally posted by ra
Gore couldn't even win his home state of Tenessee. That should result in automatic loss of the election, plus permanent exile from the country. He could move to France and invent the eclair.
ra
ROFLMFAO:D :D :D
Invent the eclair! That is really good Ra!
best damn post i've seen in this whole sorry thread!
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Originally posted by Martlet
I am educated, and I personally could care less what other countries and people think. The US is like the popular guy in your neighborhood. He's good looking, wealthy, strong, and athletic. Everyone squeakes about him, but wishes they could be him. They squeak from safety, because he'd kick your bellybutton if you messed with him.
I tend to ignore the jealous bantering of wannabe countries. Until they tick me off.
ATHLETIC??????????????
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can anyone tell these idiots that the us supreme court shouldent be deciding state elections.
ohh i get it its ok if its your guy.
p.s. gore won popular vote by 410,000
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Wouldn't it be great to abolish the electoral college so that all the votes outside of liberal population centers would be silenced?
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
can anyone tell these idiots that the us supreme court shouldent be deciding state elections.
ohh i get it its ok if its your guy.
p.s. gore won popular vote by 410,000
They didn't. They said all the votes have to be counted. And afterall that's just was Gore wanted right? :rolleyes: And even then counting votes by even gore's hypocritical standard he still lost.
I ask again, what kind of LOSER wins the popular vote and loses the election? Oh yeah, the answer is still Al Gore.
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I think the supremes should step in when a state is holding the election for ransom... when every reasonable delay has been met and when that states courts get involved in a truly partisan manner.
and yes.... much like women... large cities should not be allowed to vote in national elections. What goes on in large cities is of no concern to the rest of the country just like what women think is of no consequence.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think the supremes should step in when a state is holding the election for ransom... when every reasonable delay has been met and when that states courts get involved in a truly partisan manner.
and yes.... much like women... large cities should not be allowed to vote in national elections. What goes on in large cities is of no concern to the rest of the country just like what women think is of no consequence.
lazs
Hear Hear!!!!
Buy this man an ice cold chocolate milk!!!
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Originally posted by lord dolf vader
can anyone tell these idiots that the us supreme court shouldent be deciding state elections.
ohh i get it its ok if its your guy.
p.s. gore won popular vote by 410,000
If you would go ahead an actually read your second grade civics books you would see several things of interest, which migh dissuade you from further erroneous assertions and irrelvant factual citations.
The only true fact is that for you whining losers to continue assert that "winning" the popluar vote was of any significance, or that Bush is a fictional President, etc., etc., means only that, for liberals, it is okay to change the rules when and where they feel it will best suit their needs.
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Originally posted by Rude
Wouldn't it be great to abolish the electoral college so that all the votes outside of liberal population centers would be silenced?
Actually, despite the 2000 election, conventional wisdom is that the electoral college gives more influence to the larger states.
It would be nice if the little redneck states did not wield disproportianate power in Congress. We wouldn't be stuck with our stupid farm subsidy programs and ethanol mandates, and California would see billions more in their taxes spent at home rather than shipped off to other states.
"In 2000, Californians sent nearly $30 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received back in federal spending. This $29.3 billion total was an alltime record for any state, surpassing the previous mark -- also set by California in 1999 -- of $23.1 billion. The state’s exchange with Washington was thus more than $6 billion further into the red than just one year prior."
http://www.calinst.org/ (http://www.calinst.org/)
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Originally posted by funkedup
Based on my personal observations in travel around the country, there is an inverse relationship between population density and intelligence. So maybe we would be better off weighting votes by acreage rather than population. :)
Yeah, look at all the technological and cultural achievements pouring out of Iowa and North Dakota!
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lol Lazs.. that's classic !!!
shi*... and I used to think you had no personality !
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think what a lot of guys are missing is that....
What is the intent of these polls? Have you ever seen an American poll that polls a bunch of countries about how they feel about england? what if we did and then anounced that the world felt that england was prissy and aloof but law abiding. would the brits on this BB focus on the law abiding or the prissy and aloof? What if some of the ones most disgruntled were british 'artists'?
Wouldn't the brits wonder why we had bothered to single them out for evaluation and wouldn't they suspect our results, especialy, the negative ones?
You ask us to not be arrogant and yet.... most of you focus a great deal of attention on us... We seem to occupy a good deal of your thoughts.
go figure.
lazs
Lazs,
Actually I think someone did a poll about England. The English love that kind of thing and the more critical everyone is the better. The British do a lot more navel gazing than most and do worry about what people think of them. In the 19th century the British were the big superpower and everyone thought about them and had an opinion about them. The 20th Century was considered the 'American Century' as British power declined. Now in the 21st century, America is THE power in the world.
So everyone has an opinion about America. America is in your face all the time. American companies, products, cars, people. American TV and movies, lifestyle, ways of doing business. It's inescapable. It's mostly positive but if your government p**sses off America, you might wake up one morning with an Abrams in your back yard. That is why you occupy our thoughts.
But being around America is liking living with a Grizzly bear. He might roll over in his sleep and crush you without noticing or if you annoy him he can kill you in a moment. Most of the time we get along just fine. But you pay attention to his moods.
America as the last superpower, could if it wishes take over the entire world or destroy the entire world. Luckily for us it mostly wants to do business, on it's own terms.
So Lazs, you may not think of England much. I don't think of China or India or Italy much and they don't think of me. But we all think of America because we have no choice. That's why they had the poll mainly to try and see what people really thought of America.
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That was a cool reply blue1. Provided some interesting insight. Laz really is a big puddy tat, beleive me, I met him at the con last year :). His snarl is much worse than the intended bite.
(hehe, never thought I couldn't write ***** cat LOL)
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blue.. it seems so pointless still... What country has America rolled abrams into and made a part of the U.S. ? what country has been invaded by America that isn't better off for it for that matter?
I think england is projecting... they knew what total bastards they were when they had the reins and they project that onto us.
Again... what is the point?
lazs
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What is this 'england' you are referring to? This collective conscience you conveniently distill into one off the shelf reference?
You can't apply today's standards to events centuries ago... what is the point?
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have to comment on the avitar
seems to work well with the verbage..
or is it subliminal.. the avitar making your verbage seem trite?
hmmmm.... too deep for me to contemplate on Friday
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Originally posted by Curval
Your analology is sad Martlet,
I've traveled extensively and attended schools in the Untited States.
The popular guy in the neighborhood in the US is admired worshiped and given all that life has to offer based on his popularity and good looks. No-one squeakes about him..everyone wants to be him.
I don't wannabe American..I like Americans.
I just don't like it that you cannot take any criticism..no matter how small.
Your "he'd kick your ass" and "until they tick me off" sounds like a neighborhood bully...not a sensible educated response.
You obviously didn't take the time to learn the culture while you were here. Keep talking about things you don't understand.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
ATHLETIC??????????????
You can probably find a translation if you look hard enough.
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What is an eclair ?
Or do you mean an éclair ?
In the case someone care of the reason why the french have trouble with the American one of the key reason is here :
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/programmes/wtwta/poll/img/political/graph_14.gif)
@Martlet you can remove this :
Saying they are ignoring me, but aren't really: Straffo
from your sig. I removed you from my ignore list some 2/3 month ago.
@YEAGER : I do agree fully with Saw
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I see religous tolerance is still a problem in ye olde Europe.
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So the French hate Christianity? No wonder they love Saddam and are now doing the leg work arresting activists for the Iranian mullahs...
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Dig a bit in our history and look what happened to the cathare , the huguenots ,what is a "dragonnade" and what happened in the Cevennes.
And you will know why we are affraid of the "Christian" like Amalric the Abbé of Cîteaux.
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Originally posted by Martlet
You can probably find a translation if you look hard enough.
lolol I understand the meaning of the word but having seen the 300lbers wallowing along in Florida the one thing America is not is Athletic - overfed, obese, porcine, adipose, avoirdupois, baby elephant like, blimpish, butterballs, corpulent, fat, fleshy, gross, heavy, hippo like, outsize, paunchy, plump, porcine, portly, pudgy, roly-poly, rotund, stout, tubby, two-ton, upholstered, whales....but not Athletic....
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I can understand why Europeans would be interested in redefining morality. I mean, their whole traditional morality and way of life was proven to be a complete failure in the 20th century when they nearly destroyed themselves twice. Only under American supervision were they able to stop killing each other and rebuild their societies. But unfortunately, like a petulant teenager with a pierced nose and a leather jacket, they now think they know better than their parent. They think they are grown up now and can make up their own rules. All I can say is, "good luck", and "stay out of our way". :)
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That's not exactly my interpretation ,as you already guessed ;) .
I just see (certainly amplified + distorted by the media) some American (read the bible belt) following the very same path we were on some century ago ...
It was wrong and we proved it repeatedly
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I think it is much different here because religion is not part of our government. Remember that the first colonists here were refugees from religious intolerance in Europe, and that our Constitution guarantees religious freedom and separation of church and state. Much has been made of public acts of worship by elected officials, but they are merely exercising their Constitutional right to freedom of expression and faith. Don't be afraid. Come into the light. :)
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Originally posted by funkedup
I think it is much different here because religion is not part of our government. Remember that the first colonists here were refugees from religious intolerance in Europe, and that our Constitution guarantees religious freedom and separation of church and state. Much has been made of public acts of worship by elected officials, but they are merely exercising their Constitutional right to freedom of expression and faith. Don't be afraid. Come into the light. :)
You're a religious Christian Rightwing Nazi rapist er... racist!
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Don't waste too many tears on the on the Iranian activists Grunherz. They are a terrorist organization as described by the US and the EU. They are the same group the US bombed in Iraq during the war. Saddam was financing them. At the moment they are busy setting themselves on fire in London and Paris. Fanatics!
I think what Straffo is getting at is intolerance from the religious rather than religious intolerance. Sometimes the more religious you are the more intolerant you are of any other view. Fundamentalism basically.
I do think he's wrong on that point because the constitution of the US was very careful about that kind of thing. Something which the new constitution of the EU is copying.
To answer Lazs point:
blue.. it seems so pointless still... What country has America rolled abrams into and made a part of the U.S. ? what country has been invaded by America that isn't better off for it for that matter?
I think england is projecting... they knew what total bastards they were when they had the reins and they project that onto us.
Again... what is the point?
lazs
Without being glib, I think the point was to make a television programme that people would be interested in seeing and finding out what people really thought of America in certain countries. The war and 911 has put America in the spotlight as never before.
Like I said everyone has an opinion about America. If you've been overseas lately particularly Europe you will see American influence everywhere. We tend to copy the Americans good and bad. The American economy drives the rest of the world so if shoppers in Minnesota stay at home someone loses their job in the Phillippines. So everyone thinks about America at some point mainly because you can't get away from it.
My job depends on the US economy. So if you guys are happy and have lots of dollars to spend then so do I.
That is the point.
Not everyone likes it. Osama Bin Laden hates America and the west in general because his version of Islam is threatened by notions of equality and freedom and all the rest. So he wants to destroy that. If you look at the results of the survey you can see that Jordanians have a very low opinion of Americans. That would go for most Arab countries. But they as ignorant of what America is really like as Americans are of them.
That's the point too. Convince the Arabs the US is the good guy and they stop sending suicide bombers.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
lolol I understand the meaning of the word but having seen the 300lbers wallowing along in Florida the one thing America is not is Athletic - overfed, obese, porcine, adipose, avoirdupois, baby elephant like, blimpish, butterballs, corpulent, fat, fleshy, gross, heavy, hippo like, outsize, paunchy, plump, porcine, portly, pudgy, roly-poly, rotund, stout, tubby, two-ton, upholstered, whales....but not Athletic....
You need to read the post again to understand why your comment has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Then, you need to stop hanging out with the fat folks in Florida. You should have gone to the beach instead.
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Like I said everyone has an opinion about America. If you've been overseas lately particularly Europe you will see American influence everywhere. We tend to copy the Americans good and bad. The American economy drives the rest of the world so if shoppers in Minnesota stay at home someone loses their job in the Phillippines. So everyone thinks about America at some point mainly because you can't get away from it.
It's interesting to me that almost nobody I know ever thinks about what America's influence is in Europe or around the world. I know it seems to be a common view that Americans are arrogant, or "chest-beaters", but in reality I think most of us just prefer to go about our lives like anyone else does.....not really thinking of too much other than our own lives, family, friends, job, health, etc.......
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Originally posted by NUKE
It's interesting to me that almost nobody I know ever thinks about what America's influence is in Europe or around the world. I know it seems to be a common view that Americans are arrogant, or "chest-beaters", but in reality I think most of us just prefer to go about our lives like anyone else does.....not really thinking of too much other than our own lives, family, friends, job, health, etc.......
That is so true Nuke. It's unfair to say that all Americans are arrogant. Most people just get on with their lives. The average person around the world doesn't think about it either as they settle down in front of the TV to watch Friends or The Sopranos with a bottle of Miller in their hand and a Domino's pizza on their lap, wearing a baseball cap, a t-shirt and jeans and looking forward to going to seeing Springsteen when he hits town next week. The wife is at the shopping mall and the kids are out playing on the skateboard.
America has a huge influence all over the world good and bad.
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Originally posted by blue1
I think what Straffo is getting at is intolerance from the religious rather than religious intolerance. Sometimes the more religious you are the more intolerant you are of any other view. Fundamentalism basically.
My thought , exactly.
I hope I'm wrong but it's my perception (you can say "cliché") it certainly show that's I've not an extensive knowledge of the USA.
Last week I was a in a business trip in the country side and met some American and got some very interresting discussions about a lot of subjects .
We showed our respective lack of knowledge of each other country it was a good way to learn ,sadly I won't be able to do a trip in the USA before a long for financial reason but I don't think we are very different.
Originally posted by NUKE
It's interesting to me that almost nobody I know ever thinks about what America's influence is in Europe or around the world. I know it seems to be a common view that Americans are arrogant, or "chest-beaters", but in reality I think most of us just prefer to go about our lives like anyone else does.....not really thinking of too much other than our own lives, family, friends, job, health, etc.......
My interpretation (again ;)) is that this arrogance is not an US citizen arrogance but more a country arrogance ,at least it's how I perceive it.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think england is projecting... they knew what total bastards they were when they had the reins and they project that onto us.
lazs
Gee, guess you're right. After all, look at our "Indians"; they now constitute the world's largest democracy. Where are all your "Indians" now, please remind me?
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Originally posted by straffo
We showed our respective lack of knowledge of each other country it was a good way to learn ,sadly I won't be able to do a trip in the USA before a long for financial reason but I don't think we are very different.
Straff, my man, we are very differenet. Here, 99.9% of the women shave their underarms.
:D
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I won't shave my armpit and won't be your jail woman.
or did I mistranslate your post ??
:D
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Originally posted by straffo
I won't shave my armpit and won't be your jail woman.
or did I mistranslate your post ??
:D
LOL!
Yes you did, I meant that here, we don't jail women for shaving their armpits!:D
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"Gee, guess you're right. After all, look at our "Indians"; they now constitute the world's largest democracy. Where are all your "Indians" now, please remind me?"
they are running casinos and getting the benifiet of having two govenments to choose from. the ones who aren't doing well are at least alive.. they would not have been allowed to live if the tribe next to them had anything to do about it.
your indians? LOL... what an armpit of a country. If you see the army there you better run.
What is the differnce between the way the U.S. treated the indians and the way the brits treated every country? first off...In the U.S. the brits treated "our indians" even worse than we did.
We did not overthrow the legitimate rullers and enslave the population like british colonialism.. There was no govenment of "indians' to overhrow.. we made treaties with various tribes that got broken by the citizens of both the tribes and the U.S.
we played by their rules.. they had no concept of land ownership... the most powerful tribe moved in.. we were the most powerful tribe. You, on the other hand... moved cross the ocean to attack a soverign govenment and then enslave the population for your own profit.
I would say that africa is most like the America of our indians... many tribes all killing each other and ruining the land as they go.. the only restraints being that the land healed before they got back and disease and warfare keeping the population down.
but... I am willing to hear about another example of where the U.S. conquered and enslaved a soverign nation or even one where the brits left one better off than before they got there.
lazs
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"even one where the brits left one better off than before they got there".
Bermuda. It was a bare rock..now it's full of money.
Colonialism was the best damn thing that could have happened to this island.
Conversley, let's look at Jamaica. They were granted their independence from Britain. It is now broke, full of crime and full of people trying to leave.
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...one where the brits left one better off than before they got there.
All of them. Imagine if Australia or India had been colonized by the French or Spanish. Yuck.
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Where are all your "Indians" now, please remind me?
(raises hand) still here... look around.
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heh you guys are having pretty small balls if you really care what others think about you.
anyway at least our prime minister had enough balls to quit in her job after she was caught lying.
Maybe Jr grows some balls too one day :)
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Originally posted by Montezuma
Actually, despite the 2000 election, conventional wisdom is that the electoral college gives more influence to the larger states.
It would be nice if the little redneck states did not wield disproportianate power in Congress. We wouldn't be stuck with our stupid farm subsidy programs and ethanol mandates, and California would see billions more in their taxes spent at home rather than shipped off to other states.
"In 2000, Californians sent nearly $30 billion more to Washington in federal taxes than the state received back in federal spending. This $29.3 billion total was an alltime record for any state, surpassing the previous mark -- also set by California in 1999 -- of $23.1 billion. The state’s exchange with Washington was thus more than $6 billion further into the red than just one year prior."
http://www.calinst.org/ (http://www.calinst.org/)
To solve your problem, move!
if you want to stay then STFU
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you got a point curval... when england leaves the country does better.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
you got a point curval... when england leaves the country does better.
lazs
No..when England leaves the country goes to hell in a hand basket...visa vis Jamaica. The Brits are still here on my rock and we are doing just fine thanks.
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Funny how in India they ape British institutions, legislature and democracy. And send their kids to Oxbridge for a degree. Yes, the British occupation was a completely negative experience for them.
And Hong Kong? Just look what they did to that!
And Zimbabwe - haven't they done well since independence?
And Sierra Leone - the presence of British troops means that some sense of normality can be restored... after an attempt at independence.
My point? Some times freedom from 'tyranny' is about a million times worse than living under a 'police state'.
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My point? Some times freedom from 'tyranny' is about a million times worse than living under a 'police state'.
At least you made the trains run on time.
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Trains don't run on time in Britain, BTW. Our train service is expensive and hopeless. And we invented the damned thing.
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Originally posted by Dowding
Trains don't run on time in Britain, BTW. Our train service is expensive and hopeless. And we invented the damned thing.
Yeah, and it was invented by Al Gore's great great great great Gandmother!:D :eek: