Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brethon on November 14, 1999, 12:12:00 PM
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Okay, we got the B17........but that's it. How about some Junkers 88s, or some Halleys (Halifaxs), or Whimpneys (Wellingtons), or Lancs (Lancasters)? Those would be more of a challenge to fly, escpecially since the ones like the Halley have no belly turret, or waist gunners. Just a mid-upper and a tail.
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"Do unto others....and get your head blown off." -Brethon
[This message has been edited by Brethon (edited 11-14-1999).]
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Ju-88 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif)k
b-25:must have
ju-87:yes please
he-111: yes
ju-52:why not
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Gijoey,Joetwo,JoeMud=me
DHBG!!
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B-26 is comming soon. I think the F4U Corsair is comming first.
Hans.
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Just...
(http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1/punt.gif) ing.
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Very Opinionated Person.
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I seriously hope the give us a medium bomber before the b-26, We don't really need another high alt bomber but a russian, british or german light or medium bomber woulld be peachy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Tu-2 or Pe-2 please (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
or Lockheed Hudson/Harpoon (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Sorrow I think you have your Bombers mixed up.
Now we were told we were getting a "B-26", but not whether it was a Martin B-26 Marauder, or the Douglas A-26/B-26 Invader. Both are standard medium bombers/attack planes. (info from Gustin's website)
Martin B-26 Marauder
The B-26 was a twin-engined bomber with a streamlined fuselage of circular cross-section and a relatively small shoulder wing. The B-26 was difficult to handle, because of its high wing loading, but had high performance. Initial accident rates were high, but later the B-26 proved to be a safe and effective aircraft. With the B-25 it formed the US medium bomber forces in WWII. 4863 built.
Type: B-26G
Function: bomber
Year: 1944
Crew: 7
Engines: 2 * 1470kW Pratt & Whitney R-2800-43
Wing Span: 21.64m
Length: 17.09m
Height: 6.20m
Wing Area: 61.13m2
Empty Weight: 11476kg Max.Weight: 17327kg
Speed: 455km/h
Ceiling: 6050m
Range: 1770km
Armament: 11*mg12.7mm, 1814kg
MORE INFO: http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/aviation/b26.html (http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/aviation/b26.html)
(http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/aviation/airfield/b26_1.jpg)
Douglas A-26 Invader
The A-26 was a twin-engined bomber and attack aircraft, with the exception of the one-off XA-26A, which was a nightfighter. The Invader was fast and powerful, exceeding the USAAF specifications by a wide margin. Participation in WII was small, but the USAF used them until 1961, including combat in Korea. They were redesignated B-26 from 1948 onwards, and later modernised to B-26K 'Counter Invader' COIN aircraft, usually with heavy forward-firing armament. In 1977 six airforces still used the Invader. 2502 built.
Type: A-26B
Function: attack
Year: 1944
Crew: 3 Engines: 2 * 1470kW P&W R-2800-27
Wing Span: 21.34m
Length: 15.24m
Height: 5.64m
Wing Area: 50.17m2
Empty Weight: 10365kg Max.Weight: 15876kg
Speed: 571km/h
Ceiling: 6700m
Range: 2900km
Armament: 8 to 16 mg 12.7mm, 2725kg
Type: B-26K
Function: attack
Year: 1965
Crew: 2
Engines: 2 * P&W R-2800-103W
Wing Span: 21.34m Length: 15.60m Height: 5.60m Wing Area: 50.17m2
Empty Weight: 10748kg Max.Weight: 19677kg
Speed: 587km/h
Ceiling: 6555m
Range: 2140km
Armament: 8*mg12.7m 5443kg
More INFO: http://www.elite.net/castle-air/a26.htm (http://www.elite.net/castle-air/a26.htm)
(http://www.elite.net/castle-air/a26_8.jpg)
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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The next bomber will be the B-26 Marauder. I am slated to start work on it after I have completed the C205 Macchi.
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John "SUPERFLY" Guytan - Art Director
HiTech Creations
"The Artist Formerly Known As MONKEY"
-=HELLFIRE=- SQUAD
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Wooo Hooo I can't wait to see it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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-floo- fangs out
463rd Bomb Group
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Give it time, we have to start heavy on fighters but we'll be starting to split the development of fighters and bombers more equally.
After the B-26, we'll probably introduce a Lancaster. 4000lb cookies and a 14000lb payload will make it pretty effective against cities and factories. That big bombload will be balanced against its comparitively weak defensive firepower although it will probably be modeled with the Rose-Rice tail turret to give it a little extra punch.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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The LANC!!!!!!!!!1
ABOUT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!
HOORAY FOR PYRO, HOORAY FOR HTC!!!!
the LANCANSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"I could feel the 20MM Cannon impacting behind me so I made myself small behind the pilot armor" Charlie Bond AVG
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Very Opinionated Person.
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What is the use asking for the defenceless British bombers that had no use outside night operations? I would like them myself but they are only good if they come as a package with:
1. Night
2. No automap
3. Area bombing targets. According to the estimates more then half of the night-dropped bombs hit within 50 miles from the target, the rest fell outside that area.
4. Navigational radar systems for the bombers (Oboe, etc.)
5. Tail warning radar (Monica), IFF radar on the bombers.
6. Radar and radar-detector equipped interceptor (Bf110, Ju-88).
Make it so that Monica could not be turned on and IFF radars turn on along with the bomb bay doors. Monica were only usefull for german fighters homing in on the bombers, but allies never figured that out, so they used them throughout their night operations.
Crews also turned on the IFF radar beacon over the target believing that confused the radar-controlled AAA.
I would love to fly a Bf110 with a radar and a radar-homing device and a set of slanted guns (20mm firing upward).
The tail warning radar Monica only showed the next bomber in the stream few miles behind (no nighttime mass raids, only streams of single planes were used), but not the interceptor with slanted guns that approached from below homing on that radar and IFF beacon.
Those proved so deadly that allies never found out what happened to the planes and why, until the war ended.
But again, any of those things only make sense as a package.
miko--
[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 11-15-1999).]
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I read that when Ju88G-1 4R+UR was "captured" at Woodbridge in July 1944, soon after all Monica were removed from RAF bombers, since they discovered the FuG 227 Flensburg it carried to home in on Monica. This plane apparently didn't have the FuG 350 Naxos Z that homed in on H2S, or the schräge musik gun installation.
British bombers no good outside night ops, eh? Supposedly they were more accurate in daylight ops late in the war than the USAAF bombers were.
But I have to agree they would be much better with night and radar, since I want to shoot them down with a radar-equipped nightfighter too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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British bombers no good outside night ops, eh? Supposedly they were more accurate in daylight ops late in the war than the USAAF bombers were.
And what source did that come from, Juzz?
The British tried Daylight Bombing early in the war, and sustained heavy losses to the point that they had to cancel all daylight heavy bombing raids. (No insult to the British bombers and crews intended)
This is due to many factors including tactics, available aircraft, and enemy air superiority.
It wasn't till very late in the war when the Allies had total air superiority that the British resumed their Daylight offensives, and even then in limited numbers.
Everything I have ever read on bombing accuracy though has stated that the US Norden Bombsite equipped bombers where by far the most accurate bombers of the war. And even they resorted to carpet bombing in most cases. So I think any arguement of "accuracy" is laughable after a certain point.
Wasn't the British technique called "Area Bombing" and they proudly pointed out that 50 percent of their ordinance fell within 50 miles of the target.
Different theories, different tactics.
The Lancaster in an arena would have a very difficult time of surviving.
Its defensive firepower is very light (8x .303 in turrets) which results in only about 15% of the defensive firepower of a B-17, same max speed as a B-17, and its max ceiling is 24,500 ft.
So it can't fly overtop of interceptors very easily, and if they are caught it will be over quickly.
Its one big attribute is its heavy payload, and it that area it is far superior to anything else available.
Don't get me wrong, I would like to see a Lancaster myself. I just dont' think it will perform up to the high expectations of its pilots.
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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AFAIK the RAF changed to night bombing due to massive losses in daytime raids. In late war they used their bombers in daytime too.
(End of '44 / 45)
The story of the capturing of a nightfighter is mentioned by some of my sources too.
All in all the RAF had a different strategy compared to the USAAF. While USAAF tried to precision bomb industrial facilities mainly, the bomber command wanted some sort of revenge for the bombing of english cities by the LW and therefore (also due to a lack in precision bombing techniques) decided to carpet bomb with no respect to civil life.
Werewo
JG 301 "Heimatverteidigung"
P.S. YES we need "Schräge Musik" and the Heinkel 219 "Uhu"
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I agree with Vermillion on this one. The Lanc just doesn't have the speed, ceiling, or firepower of the B17, and it will be torn apart in the MA. I'm glad they're coming, but with a ceiling of only 24K, EVERYONE is a gonna get a Lanc.
In the long range scheme of things (strategic bombing? scenarios?) it may be just the thing, however I doubt we'll see many ofthem after the first week of operations...
Now the B26 might be a different story...
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The story I heard is the USAAF weren't too good when cloud was over the target, the RAF daylight ops late in the war were better at BTO. I guess because the crews were already familiar with bombing with radar and nav aids. FIIK the source for that though. OTOH, the USAAF were more accurate on clear days.
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Now that statement I can understand Juzz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Once you qualify it, it makes sense, but the earlier blanket statement made me go ... huh????
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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
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Sort of tangential to the topic, but I'm getting a hazy recollection of an alleged ditty...something like "English English Lancasters/At zero zero feet--", to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic...maybe it had something to do with dam busting with really big bombs. Anyone else recall anything like that? Heck, anyone want to go dam busting? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Flathat
'Black Dahlia'
No10 RNAS "The Black Flight"
Angel on your wing, devil on your tail