Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Frodo on June 18, 2003, 07:56:07 PM

Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 18, 2003, 07:56:07 PM
http://members.sparedollar.com/proffers/hoferthen.jpg

:D

This P51 belonged to Kidd Hofer.

Frodo
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Pongo on June 18, 2003, 11:14:52 PM
Yes it was common in the Med.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 19, 2003, 12:15:38 AM
I didn't know that.Any reason behind it other than,whitewalls were cool ?

Heat related?

Frodo
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: MiloMorai on June 19, 2003, 01:13:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Frodo
I didn't know that.Any reason behind it other than,whitewalls were cool ?

Heat related?

Frodo


That's the word 'cool'.;) It tended to keep the tire temperature down.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on June 19, 2003, 01:18:52 AM
Yea but the LW even had whitewall tailwheels.. :)
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Duedel on June 19, 2003, 05:53:17 AM
Nope thats not true Grunherz. LW had leather wheels!
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 19, 2003, 08:10:16 PM
The P51 in the link above was an ETO bird. :cool:

Frodo
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: ergRTC on June 20, 2003, 11:34:20 AM
not sure if it would cool the wheels any.  Doesnt black release heat easier?  (it absorbs infrared faster but that is irrelevant).
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Shiva on June 20, 2003, 10:20:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
not sure if it would cool the wheels any.  Doesnt black release heat easier?  (it absorbs infrared faster but that is irrelevant).


Black absorbs all ambient radiation better. The tread area is black because the formulation for durability can't be done with white rubber; that's why you never saw many all-white tires -- they didn't stand up to wear as well.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: ergRTC on June 21, 2003, 08:39:48 AM
Yes but releases it faster as well.  That is my point.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on June 25, 2003, 04:59:45 AM
BTW Erich Hartmann shot down that very P51 killing Hofer...
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: MiloMorai on June 25, 2003, 08:10:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
Yes but releases it faster as well.  That is my point.


One sees Arab women wearing black clothing in temperatures over 30*C. Is this cultural or because it radiats heat better?
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: ergRTC on June 25, 2003, 02:22:53 PM
All of these questions and no answers!
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Pongo on June 25, 2003, 03:05:50 PM
my understanding is that white tires do not degrade as fast in the sun. Even to the point of painting them white.  The side walls are thiner and probably degrade quicker then the treads would any way.
As to muslim woman, i would not be at all suprised if it is to lower thier value in regards to men.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 25, 2003, 11:14:55 PM
Grun that was a thought possible,but has since been disproven.Although Hartmann was credited with 2 P51's the same day I believe.His kills were at high alt.and in a different area.

Another pilot was flying the Kidd's plane and tangled with some LW.One of the LW pilots reported fighting with a P51 with a boxing mule as nose art.Not sure if the guy flying the Kidd's plane survived this encounter as well as the Kidds plane.

The Kidd was flying a different plane when he was killed strafing a field that had been upgraded with extra A/A units.He was all alone on the deck as usual.There have been documents of the German and Yugoslavian army uncovered recently that prove this.The documents are very convincing and laid in storage for years.The U.S.Military recovered the Kidds remains in the 50's and buried them in Jefferson Barracks Cemetary in St.Louis.If you get a chance to read this book do so.It lays everything out and is a great insight into what made this guy tick.One of a kind!:D  Here is the link.

http://www.starduststudios.com/new.htm

It seems the U.S. military simply passed on trying to find out what happened to the Kidd.I am sure they were very busy trying to tie all the loose ends at the end of the war,but they did not even try.I don't believe they had any interest in glorifying such a maverick pilot such as the Kidd.It went against the propaganda of the well disciplined U.S. Military.

Also the Kidd's gunnery instructor was Buzz Beurling.It is apparent that the Kidd was influenced by this other famous maverick pilot.If you know Beurling's story you will see what I mean.
:D


Frodo
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on June 26, 2003, 07:14:57 PM
Really he was tought by Buzz - I guess when he was in RCAF?

Yea Frodo I have been looking into Kidd for a few days now and happened upon the AAA story after I posted.  But anyway wouldnt it be cool if there was such a fight between top aces. In fact Kidd even reminds me more of a LW type individualist than the disciplined teamwork USA pilot type that was more common.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 26, 2003, 09:37:49 PM
I will look up the exact account on Buzz this weekend and post it.

The odds were against this kind of fight,but agree it would have been something to see.

The Kidd reminds me so much of Hans-Joachim Marseille.So close in disposition and style it's scary.I won't go into debating skill level.:D Read in depth on these two guys and it's amazing the similarities.

He certainly wasn't your spit and polish Air Force Officer!

BTW the reason the Kidd was in a different plane when he went down was because he refused to take the extra shots and boosters required for the "Russia Shuttle Mission".This was the first mission to bomb Germany,land in Russia,show the flag,party a little and return hitting Germany on the way home.Everyone wanted on this mission but extra medical precautions were ordered.The Kidd refused any shots and was taken off the mission and his plane assigned to someone else.He begged his way in later as a backup.His group was to take off and follow,and take the place of any planes that had to abort.No planes aborted the mission but the Kidd followed and joined the misssion anyway!:cool:
He went down on the return leg of this mission.

Frodo
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: frank3 on June 27, 2003, 06:40:06 AM
rofl!!! ergRTC, your avator is hilarious! :D
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Shiva on June 27, 2003, 11:47:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MiloMorai
One sees Arab women wearing black clothing in temperatures over 30*C. Is this cultural or because it radiats heat better?


Arab clothing is functional for wear in desert heat because it is layered, not because of the color of the fabric. The multiple layers of clothing trap air between them as insulation (go out in the desert on a hot day and put your hand on the ground, then compare how hot your hand feels if you raise it six inches off the ground), and the loose-weave cloth allows sweat to evaporate quickly, increasing cooling.
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Bodhi on June 30, 2003, 06:43:26 PM
Thats a case of too much flash and too much shiny rubber.  Goodyear NEVER produced whitewall tires for 51's in WW2 and paint woul not have adhered to the rubber that early...
Title: Ever see a fighter with whitewalls?
Post by: Frodo on June 30, 2003, 09:15:16 PM
I wonder if the British produced a white tire?

Frodo