Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ouch on June 18, 2003, 10:11:27 PM
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I find it's easier for me to maintain SA with the view keys, but I do still lose an enemy aircraft sometimes.
Do most of you use keys, padlock or some combination?
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I have used it in some situations but I would say that I use it about as much...maybe a little bit less than just using hat switches. IMO its the best representation of tracking an aircraft that any game has ever attempted. Of course its not like the real thing but it is still better than anything else out there for "padlock".
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I don't even know how to use it. That might explain a few things though:)
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I have never used it nor do I know how to.
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never used it.. always depended on the views with a hat switch and quick thumb.
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I tried it a few times and found it to be more of a hinderance than a help. At least for me, I get a better picture of what's going on around me with the F9 view.
I would also think that padlock view would actually hinder your SA and not give you a complete picture of what's going on around you. The reason is because you become dependent on the padlock view to keep the bogie in site and you become focused on that one target and lose the awareness of what's going on around you. Sure, you might be able to track your target better since you're so focused on him but what about the bandit that is closing at your high 5 O'clock, or the other bogie at your low 8 O'clock climbing up to you getting ready to take the lead angle shot? You'd have a better chance in spotting these bogies as well as get a better idea of what's going on around you outside of your cockpit with the normal snap or instant view keys.
Ack-Ack
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We got padlock now? Wait .... I'm gonna pretend like I didn't hear that. ;)
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What's padlock view? I have no idea.
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Originally posted by Steve
What's padlock view? I have no idea.
Your view locks on to your target and tries to keep it in your view until you designate another target.
ack-ack
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Holy poop AKAK. I would think this feature would cause serious degradation of SA. No, I do not think I am interested in trying it.
I'm a lefty, so I have left hand on stick, right hand on keypad and use my views there... also have flaps mapped there.
Righties are blessed in that they can buy those fancy double joysticks... us lefties must make do w/ less than primo stuff. :)
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I have nothing to add to this discussion, I just want to post so that the "junior" title is taken off my name.
AKwoody
:cool:
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Wow talk about a leap back in time. When was this introduced? 1.4 ?
I've never used it myself either... if I learned one thing in this arena, is that if you keep tracking that ONE con, you'll be soon in the tower asking yourself "wtf!?"
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Originally posted by Steve
Righties are blessed in that they can buy those fancy double joysticks... us lefties must make do w/ less than primo stuff. :)
Yep, I'm gonna get me a Lefty-friendly stick one of these days. Maybe a Saitek? I have this nice Logitech Wingman Extreme with 7 buttons and throttle but I cant use the throttle or the 2 base buttons because its on the left side. Would be nice to utilize the whole stick as well as the hand rest made for righties! :mad:
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Originally posted by Steve
Holy poop AKAK. I would think this feature would cause serious degradation of SA. No, I do not think I am interested in trying it.
I'm a lefty, so I have left hand on stick, right hand on keypad and use my views there... also have flaps mapped there.
Righties are blessed in that they can buy those fancy double joysticks... us lefties must make do w/ less than primo stuff. :)
I'm a south paw too and used to use a twisty stick until I started working at CH. When I started there, they only made stuff for right-handers and I had to force myself to learn how to use a controller on with my right hand and throttle with left. After a few months, they made me a custom left handed Combat Stick but when I tried it, it felt as foreign in my left hand as did a right-handed one when I first tried one of those.
Ack-Ack
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After a month of not using padlock in AH I've stopped using padlock in IL2 as well!!
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I don't use the actual padlock, but sometimes I use the feature that comes with it where you can highligt (put a box around to be precise) an enemy. I remapped the key, so i can't remember it's default.
When fighting more of one type it is helpful for me to easily be able to tell them apart, especially when I feel that there is a big skill difference between them.
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Never use it no idea how to turn it on. I just use my hat. And intuition as to where the enemy is. I use it all the time in Il-2 case of the funky views in there.
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Originally posted by LLv34_Snefens
I don't use the actual padlock, but sometimes I use the feature that comes with it where you can highligt (put a box around to be precise) an enemy. I remapped the key, so i can't remember it's default.
When fighting more of one type it is helpful for me to easily be able to tell them apart, especially when I feel that there is a big skill difference between them.
I use the targeting feature too without using the padlock view for pretty much the same reason as you.
Ack-Ack
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I think two times my baby whacked my keyboard and turned on padlock, I couldn't figure out WTF was going on. Other than that, never tried it.
eskimo
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Ahh Schadenfreude...another Fighter Ace convert. I think I remember your ID popping up when LJK (old squadron I with) jumped ship and headed over here. Anyway, I use padlock much the same way as I Ack-Ack and Snefens do. Although I don't find that my Situational Awareness (SA for the newbies) drops off any. After coming from FA myself I think I developed a bit of intuition about when a bandit is moving in on me and I can break away to save myself. Also I tend to only use Padlock when I have buddies around helping cover the areas that I normally would loose immediate sight of in a fight anyway. So for me padlock = no change in how I scan the sky around me.
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I tried it, but it disorients me and you have to padlock again when the target gets out of view - and then you don`t know which of the 3 N1Ks to padlock
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I use snap views combined with a seldom used mouse panning view.
I even dont use padlock in F15 Strike Eagle III ;)
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Padlock was nice for viewing films before head positions were recorded. In combat it's very disorienting for me - I lose track of my plane's attitude.
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Originally posted by devious
I tried it, but it disorients me and you have to padlock again when the target gets out of view - and then you don`t know which of the 3 N1Ks to padlock
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I use snap views combined with a seldom used mouse panning view.
I even dont use padlock in F15 Strike Eagle III ;)
How do you use mouse panning view - which is the default key to get the mouse working?
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Originally posted by Reschke
Ahh Schadenfreude...another Fighter Ace convert. I think I remember your ID popping up when LJK (old squadron I with) jumped ship and headed over here. Anyway, I use padlock much the same way as I Ack-Ack and Snefens do. Although I don't find that my Situational Awareness (SA for the newbies) drops off any. After coming from FA myself I think I developed a bit of intuition about when a bandit is moving in on me and I can break away to save myself. Also I tend to only use Padlock when I have buddies around helping cover the areas that I normally would loose immediate sight of in a fight anyway. So for me padlock = no change in how I scan the sky around me.
Yep lots of grumpy unhappy people in the higher levels of FA right now - lots of rumours before the last patch that things would change to a more realistic FM but last time I looked the big argument was that the arcade level wasn't easy enough....sigh, anyway am enjoying AH - just needs some more planes and a bit of a graphics tweak.
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Off thread topic and I apologize for this...but Schadenfreude they have been "saying" for a long time that they were making the flight model more realistic but the arcade crowd (which is larger) always screams and cries about that so they break it down to the lower end. In reality they have admitted way back in closed beta that they built the flight model to be arcadish then added in variables to make it "realistic". I have come to the realization that the former builders under M$/VR-1 now VR-1/Jaleco (same basic group) don't want to have a realistic game and if that suits them to have just a few people on the servers all the time then so be it it's there game.
My single voice was to start off in advanced/realistic mode and dumb it down once you have the flight model correct but of course my reasoning was drowned out and I eventually quit flying in beta. But I still have a sub for my oldest son (6.5 y/o) to fly there since he spins out all the time in AH.
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What? there is more than Straight ahead veiw?? ;)
I dont use padlock, I prefer snap views.
I do know of 1 AH Pilot that uses Padlock for sure.
The reason he uses it, it because he has some disabilites that dont allow him to use a Hat for views. The Padlock feature is very nice for someone in his situation.
I know when it was first introduced, lots of folks whined about the unfair advantages it would give. This has not proved to be true.
What I have seen is AH become more playable and more enjoyable for players with handicaps.
Thank you HT for adding this feature.
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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
How do you use mouse panning view - which is the default key to get the mouse working?
Go to setup and find "pan view". Map it to mouse axis. In flight, leave mouse alone or readjust by "aiming" straight forward.
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Originally posted by devious
Go to setup and find "pan view". Map it to mouse axis. In flight, leave mouse alone or readjust by "aiming" straight forward.
Found Pan view as F8 but what do you mean by "Map it to mouse axis" - does this happen under keyboard or j/stick setup?
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Originally posted by Steve
Holy poop AKAK
Thank you Steve. In real quiet moments when I go "inside" myself, I find what I see in the mirror is..well..
Gooey..
Ouch, where ya been ?? Email me nopoops190@worldnet.att.net
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Padlock view ?
Targeting ?
wtf
If anyone uses any of these crutches their icon should be altered to show it as so.
They have no place in a sim, save for the instance mentioned above as regards any disability.
I bet some one admits to using combat trim also !
wipass
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Oh god forbid someone use Combat Trim! Just curious wipass..are you joking or do you actually think HTC would put in a feature that would give one and unfair advantage over others?
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Padlock??? Eeeeeekk!!!!! I didn`t do it nor do I know anything about it. Officer I was just driving along, minding my own business when......................... ..............:D
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we have padlock?!?!?!?
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Schadenfreude,
click Setup on Clipboard, select Joy Stick.
In the next window, select "Select Joystick".
In the left hand column, find "View Yaw" and "View pitch" and map those to the mouse axis - select mouse in middle column, then Y-Axis and X-Axis respectively in the rightmost column. Click on "Save Input" to set.
Now in flight, hit pan view (F8 by default) , then right mousebutton and move the mouse.
You might want to invert the Y axis in the 1st dialogue.
Q: when I hit pan mode, my head spins back to up/back/right view. Can I get it to stay in the normal forward position ?
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Originally posted by devious
Schadenfreude,
click Setup on Clipboard, select Joy Stick.
In the next window, select "Select Joystick".
In the left hand column, find "View Yaw" and "View pitch" and map those to the mouse axis - select mouse in middle column, then Y-Axis and X-Axis respectively in the rightmost column. Click on "Save Input" to set.
Now in flight, hit pan view (F8 by default) , then right mousebutton and move the mouse.
You might want to invert the Y axis in the 1st dialogue.
Q: when I hit pan mode, my head spins back to up/back/right view. Can I get it to stay in the normal forward position ?
Thnks much appreciated
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Originally posted by devious
Q: when I hit pan mode, my head spins back to up/back/right view. Can I get it to stay in the normal forward position ?
Calibrate the mouse in AH.
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Don't use the padlock feature, I've never found a padlock system in ANY sim that has not felt dis-orientating or ruined the immersion by feeling completely false. I don't care if someone uses padlock or not, they are not cheating if it's in the sim. I use my mousestick on my Cougar for view panning if I'm not using my TrackIR unit which makes things a hell of a lot more immersive. I really hope they will put dedicated support into AHII because it's simply awesome in IL-2:FB.
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The only instance I ever used padlock, was when in making AH movies :D Some versions ago, when AH Film Viewer was introduced, there was this nifty 'bug' that you can put padlock on a target, and then shift to no icons - then you'd get a padlock tracking of an enemy without those icons.
That was pretty nifty for making natural looking shots from within the cockpit.
However, recently, that bug feature seems to have disappeared.
Ah well, no more padlock use for me.. ;)
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I used to love padlock when i flew EAW.
After i learned without in AH i do not want to go back.
Hatswitches are faster and u can look easily from 6 to 12 so keeping SA is better without padlock.
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I'm assuming you're talking vs. other games and specifically excluding that illusive thing we call "the real world". Having spent a substantial amount of time in the real skies, I prefer things to be modeled on that reality. I'm happy to report that my present sim does that 100% modeling some things that I would never even have thought of e.g. when you're in an aircraft in the less than CAVU (ceiling and visivility unlimited) world, when you look away from an aircraft in another direction to scan for other aircraft and then return to the original target you will not see it initially. Why? Because the human eye needs some time to focus. The icon will gradually fade in just like your real world eyeballs work. Very nice and realistic. The benefit I get from this is that unlike the CAVU sims which keep you in sight of the enemy if he can only focus the 18" between his orbs and the screen, I just like a real life pilot know that if I can change distance or aspect ratio fast enough I can become invisible to my enemy. This can be used quite well in either offensive or defensive situations. In offensive situations I can actually come in out of the sun and not be seen until it's too late and in defensie situations I can use it in conjunction with fog, haze and clouds to get the hell out of there while the getting's good. I would hope that AH2 will be more realistic in this respect as it's become an extremely important part of what I consider to be essential in a sim.
von Beeg
Originally posted by Reschke
IMO its the best representation of tracking an aircraft that any game has ever attempted. Of course its not like the real thing but it is still better than anything else out there for "padlock".
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Yup, I think it was 1.4 and I also never used it but believe it was because it didn't work and it was poorly if at all documented. I think it was one of them things they just threw out there and since the majority of people where already used to the "dancing thumb" method it was a non issue. Tell you what, though. I came to AH from Fighter Ace. Now, there was a figgin padlock. You locked in on somebody and next thing you knew you were looking at your floorboards or through the back of your head at your leather headrest. Didn't matter who the hell was in front of you, your head was pointed straight back because that's where the bandit was. It was the perfect padlock even if more often than not you would hear yourself scream in agony in the midst of the explotion as you slammed into a figgin mountain :D
My preferred method is the swiveling neck syndrome brought on by the dancing thumb. Nothing beats seeing it all.
von Beeg
Originally posted by Saintaw
Wow talk about a leap back in time. When was this introduced? 1.4 ?
I've never used it myself either... if I learned one thing in this arena, is that if you keep tracking that ONE con, you'll be soon in the tower asking yourself "wtf!?"
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I apologize too for adding to the hijack.
As a former RL pilot with CFI and Instrument ratings, I've been driving myself nuts for over six years looking for the perfect Multiplayer Combat Simulator to feed my well educated tastes. Conclusion: It does not exist in any of the commercial ventures. I started in Fighter Ace, flying in the realistic 1.0 and 1.5 arena without tags. I then became dissallusioned with their graphics and moved to AH where I spent about 2 years as a proud Rook. Here I became dissalutioned with the extremely clear graphics murmuring to myself that there wasn't a patch of sky in the entire planet that looked like that. I then moved to WarBirds where again I had the CAVU skies but the flight model was a little more realistic for my taste. I then migrated to WW2OL where I've been hanging for about 6 months. The aircraft graphics weren't what I was used to in AH and WB where you could actually see scratched paint on your panel but on the other hand, they had trees, rivers, bridges and towns and best of all I could sweep down in my 109 and actually strafe infantry and tanks moving across a road also from a RL flying perspective it looked better to me than any of the previous sims. Then I got involved in the 1.09 Open Beta which is presently testing and in between testing a new 109 FM vs. the old I suddenly forgot all my RL training which gave me the basic parameters which I utilized to control aircraft in these sims. Instead of using my knowledge of the fact that if you apply too much back pressure when the aircraft begins to shudder you will stall and spin, I just kept the stick pulled back into my virtual gut and guess what? Nothing happened as I would have expected. I really had to work hard at loosing controllability. I did lose it but only after really doing things that were just unthinkably stupid and unrealistic. Final Conclusion: There are just too damn many aeronautical principles necessary to be programmed and thus a resultant astronomical expense to anyone wishing to truly program an accurate flight model. The absolute best that anyone flying these sims can expect is an "illusion of combat flight" The sim should make your brain think that it's flying in a combat environment. It can't actually be a true representation of a real life FM. Jeeezus, think about it? Does anyone think that any of us dweebs could just jump into a real 109, crank her up and even move 2 feet without the torque effect causing your death?
Sorry, but anyone talking about FM or for that matter even using the word flying in here as opposed to playing is yanking their own chain. I say enjoy the "look" and "fantasy" but forget about FM discussions. They're irrelevant!
von Beeg
Originally posted by Reschke
Off thread topic and I apologize for this...but Schadenfreude they have been "saying" for a long time that they were making the flight model more realistic but the arcade crowd (which is larger) always screams and cries about that so they break it down to the lower end. In reality they have admitted way back in closed beta that they built the flight model to be arcadish then added in variables to make it "realistic". I have come to the realization that the former builders under M$/VR-1 now VR-1/Jaleco (same basic group) don't want to have a realistic game and if that suits them to have just a few people on the servers all the time then so be it it's there game.
My single voice was to start off in advanced/realistic mode and dumb it down once you have the flight model correct but of course my reasoning was drowned out and I eventually quit flying in beta. But I still have a sub for my oldest son (6.5 y/o) to fly there since he spins out all the time in AH.
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"Sorry, but anyone talking about FM or for that matter even using the word flying in here as opposed to playing is yanking their own chain. I say enjoy the "look" and "fantasy" but forget about FM discussions. They're irrelevant!"
There is a vast difference between a game that relaxes physics - ie no stalls and no spins, increased accelleration and guns that reach out 2000 feet with one that "tries" to give a small taste of realism to players.
No-one, apart from some spectacularly deluded souls think that playing an online computer game equips anyone to be a WW2 pilot.
Having said that one only has to look at the popularity of the flight sims that try to add realism IL2 & AH vs those that relax the physics and flight settings to make it "easier" to play.
Go and play FA for a month and watch the Tie fighters and then tell me that FM doesn't matter.
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Originally posted by Ouch
Do most of you use keys, padlock or some combination?
No. Can you say tunnel vision? With ah sounds and a good headset, I find it nearly impossible to completely lose a bogie.
Steve, Lefty.....Try a Saitek Cyborge 3d. They are cheap now, and you can take the throttle lever and hand rest off and switch to the other side for left handers. Plus you can adjust more watermelon than Ive ever bothered to mess with to make it comfortable, and fit your hand.
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Have never used it in my 190 :D Actually I have never used it at all in AH.
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liked padlock in falcon 3.0 and it helped in EAW
not used it since
too disorienting
SKurj
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As i came from FA where padlock is very good i use padlock all the time here with a lot of success. The combination of the hat and padlock is a killer.
Cheers
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Originally posted by Zipper9
As i came from FA where padlock is very good i use padlock all the time here with a lot of success. The combination of the hat and padlock is a killer.
Cheers
Hi Zipper - am also from FA - GMT time zone let me know if you want to wing up anytime.
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Originally posted by Zipper9
As i came from FA where padlock is very good i use padlock all the time here with a lot of success. The combination of the hat and padlock is a killer.
Cheers
While I agree that FA had/has a padlock system it is very far from being very good in my judgement. To me a padlock system should not track an aircraft that stays behind and below you in your blind spot, through the brightest portion of the sun or the padlock can track you through clouds or behind terrain features. That is why I think AH has a good one and so does IL-2/IL-2:FB. If the enemy gets under your nose or you start pulling to many G's and blacking out then you loose padlock. Not so in FA3.6 (played it some last night after my 6 year old got through playing).
Beegerite; You are quite right that someone like me who has never flown an aircraft with a prop (got to ride in the backseat of an F-16 2-seater once here in Alabama) should not be talking about Flight Models but I do think that when you are developing a game you should at least start out trying to make it as hard as possible.