Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Phantom121 on November 15, 1999, 01:19:00 PM
-
I see alot of people calling for more realism. Labels are too big of a crutch and make surprise attacks very hard. Friends already show on map but not enemy - do same for labels. Only label friends and then not until close (say 2K). That will up realism considerably.
-
I would have to agree with you on that score Phantom. Perhaps icons could appear at a closer distance and be less visable, big red letters against a blue sky is not very realistic..how about a colour that blends better with the background and thus makes spotting planes harder.
dotsie
-
Agreed, ID tags are soemthing that I had hoped would be addressed.
I know its a concession to gameplay, that being said, the variables can be tinkered with. ie; distance that theyre seen, the color (thats a good one btw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
-
How would someone tell a friendly 109G from an enemy 109G ??
--Westy
-
Quote:big red letters against a blue sky is not very realistic..how about a colour that blends better with the background and thus makes spotting planes harder.
I can just say, CC to that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-
-
Guys what you are calling "labels" have been historically called "icons", in WB's and AW.
The debate is endless on their "realism", and many different setting have been tried.
Realistically, until we get very large monitors or 3D Headwrap Visors, that can produce near infinite colors, real life depth and width of view, and enough polygons to simulate real life exactly, it is a given that we need icons of some sort.
Todays monitors and video cards are producing graphics that are light years ahead of what we had 10 years ago, but they are still meager in comparison to Real Life Mark I Eyeballs.
But hey, go ahead and debate from there.
------------------
Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires ;) "
-
As stated, labels(icons) for ENEMY planes should be turned off. Friendly labels(icons) would unfornately be left on but not visible til close say 2K.
-
They have tried to push the limit on shortening icon distance, in the HA in WB. The HA it should be pointed out , is a notoriously empty arena. They give endless reasons for not flying in there, on AGW. IMOP the real reason is that people dont have the time to fly for thirty min. looking for a fight. With the fuel limit in AH, this would become even a bigger pain in the butt.
-
One change that I suggested a while back on
the SDOE board was for icons that disappear
when you get CLOSE to the target
IEW, have a setting for MAX/MIN icon ranges
and a host setting for when icons give plane
type as well as range.
this would reduce clutter and also give an
intuitive (and unobtrusive) cue to firing
distances.
This caused some confusion over there, so I
will explain.
Imagine that you set your MAX icon to say,
3000 yds and MIN to 150 yds.
You can then ID a bandit (as a dot, range only) at just under 2 miles (line of sight permitting) then as you
close, the icon gives more information, adding country COLOR then plane TYPE to the
range until you reach your MIN value at which
point, the FE hands off the job of making a
solution to your MkI eyeball and the "zoom"
key that y'all have programmed on your
pinky button <g>
I think that this "progressive" icon would
be more "natural" for gunnery & tactics and
would be relatively simple to adjust for
historical scenarios without getting the
MA types too upset <g>
Grump
-
CC on the labels.
Turn em off for enemies, we can still ID hostiles and friendlies from a distance, because friendlies show up sooner, but the label really detracts from the realism because you know the type of the plane and distance from 9k.
Best solution:
Keep label distances the same for now, but turn off plane type identity for enemies until 2 or 3k. Might make it more exciting and probably won't tick to many people off.
-
At this point in the beta,Icons are a dead issue.
Im Sure HT & Pyro will add an arena for those guys who keep getting kilt because of the big Icon over there plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
If they set up an HA arena or an SL arena im sure Icons will be adjusted accordingly..
------------------
--wd-- Jagdgeschwader 26 "Schlageter"
"The Abbeville Boys"
-
I have to agree with Verm.
Visually I can't distinguish the range difference of a contact at 6k or a contact at 2k. They look the same distance away from me. It makes a big difference in your set up (lead turn move) at what range the contact is initially. I believe this would magnify the advantage to planes that have a higher turn rate.
IMO, I could better guess the range if I was looking at a real plane, I just can't do it in Sims looking at my monitor. If the game can provide cues to this, then I say "Get rid of the Icons".
As is it stands I would like to see NME Icon range shorted to about 5k.
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 11-15-1999).]
-
I have played with and without icons.As long as both sides use the same aircraft some form of id seems manditory.
I did fly in a sim that the icon range was shortened to OH about 3-4k it made for a much more exciting game.It also seemed to stop the insane massive low level furballing.It seems players were quite so fast to dive into a ball of dots when they couldnt I.D. them from a million miles away.
-
I agree that a shortening of the con distance would greatly increase the sphincter factor while flying around.
As for being able to tell a rook pony from a say a bishop pony, itd be pretty easy to give each country visible color markings. Theyd only really work to about 1-2k out, but that would not be too bad I figgure.
Example;
A rook pony has a red tail section, the bishop pony has a checker board white and black tail section
With the resolutions we're running now I think that would be a viable solution.
Just my .02 cents, flame away (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
I don't agree that there is no alternative to icons.
I would agree that no one has seriously tried to find a substitute for icons.
Grumpy and a few others have made suggestions that might work if we gave them a real chance. We'd have to stick with such a program long enough to try a few variations and find something that suits.
In the few minor attempts to lessen the reliance on icons, like in the WB HA, it has always seemed strange to me that we remove icons at long range and then let them pop up at close range.
This is exactly the opposite of what I would expect if the idea is to add some semblance of reality.
I'd expect icons in the game at ranges where real life would allow normal, visual determination of nationality, plane type, etc., and NO icons at close ranges where the present artwork itself is capable of providing these visual clues.
In arenas where all plane types are available to all players, the present color coding could be used on the artwork. For example, friendlies have green wingtips, prop spinners and vertical stabilizers. Enemies have the same components in red.
There are things to try but everyone seems unwilling to experiment.
Icons are bogus. We should be trying to eliminate them by providing the visual clues using other methods.
-
Well - maybe not totally iconless environment but:
- what's the point in rooks/biships/horsey things icons? We have friendlies in green - the rest is the enemy, shoot them and let AH God sort them out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
- reduce the font size - we do need to get distances/plane IDs but it doesn't have to take half your screen...
- no icons "up close and personal"? Hmmm... It sounds nice but when that 190 fills your screen it's icon is not a factor anymore, is it? Just squeeze the trigger gently (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
-
removing icons close up and showing them at distance just makes the distant planes stand out a lot more. On my hardware I often can't see certain planes against certain ground textures w/o icons.
<edit>
To further explain my self, I am flying these on-line sims to fly air-to-air combat, even more specificly the actual fighting phase of it where both have already spotted each other. I am not interested in bouncing someone who never saw me.
You wan't the visuals to result in same % of surprise kills as in WWII? Isn't it estimated to be like 80 - 90%? Now that would be _exciting_!
</edit>
//fats
[This message has been edited by fats (edited 11-16-1999).]
-
Not seeing planes against certain backgrounds would be eliminated with Country specific paint schemes, A red tail nose and spinner on a 109 will stand out nicely against anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Im not saying that Icons arent nice, Im just saying theyre a little TOO nice. and Im suprised that with all the focus on realism, and pushing the cutting edge, that HTC isnt looking for a "Better" solution in this area than the current antiquated concession to gaming.
Fester
-
Well actually since neither HiTech nor anyone else on the staff have added any inptu to this how do you know they are not trying out ideas??? Or if not trying them out that they do not have them on the "idea" board?
I'd love icons to go personally. But not unless I can id an enemy in an a way that approximates real life.
A tail and spinner colour combo... A very light halo around the plane form. Whatever.
Just something. And so far icons have been the simplest and surest way. But that's 'so far...' (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy