Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on June 20, 2003, 04:37:23 AM
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Earlier tonight a discussion popped up on channel 1 whether or not vulching was honorable. That got me to thinking about whether or not real life combat pilots had the same feelings about vulching. Then I remembered a post by Earl on another message board about the very same issue.
For those of you that have never had the fortunate opportunity to run into Earl, he was a former AW player that was also a real life combat pilot in WW2 that flew P-47s, P-39s and P-38s in the MTO. In addition to combat service in WW2, he also flew combat planes in Korea and Vietnam, so at least for me, his words on this subject carry a lot of weight. Anyway, to those that took part in tonight's discussion that thought vulching was a dishonorable practice, I hope this sheds some light for you.
While I am at it, let me tell you my feelings about "vulching", where a pilot zaps an enemy aircraft on the ground. AW pilots seem to look upon that tactic as amoral or worse. In real life, it was a fighter pilot's dream. Zap one enemy A/C on the runway before it could take off and zap you. I thought it should be encouraged in AW. In AW I was hoping to catch a C country pilot in that situation. Remember? They were the worse enemy! Knocking down one of them was a feather in
one's hat. Shucks, now I'm getting nostalgic.
earl
Ack-Ack
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I guess nothing can be more adequate than a comment from those who have seen the action themselves.
However still, there are some things to be considered. Even in real life, I'm pretty sure 'vulching' was a favorable form of attack on certain strict conditions - which brings it to the problem which haunts military pilots even today.
Sometimes, it is hard to set the line between vulching for inevitable/tactical purposes and strafing civilians and civilian structures - one example is the war in Korea, a backward country in the 1950s, where the modern form of city planning did not exist. Vast spaces of fields and hills, mountains, wilderness with scattered villages, woods and bushes, rice fields - practically no distinctions between civilian areas and military areas, since neither of them did not existed - at least in the modernistic sense.
The contradicting nature of military ethics - spawned from the fact that essentially military action is a justified and sanctioned form of use of lethal force - sometimes brings out serious problems. And especially, the method of ground attack known as 'vulching', has higher risks and dangers of such problems arising.
To be fair, I'm sure none of the people participating in the war had time, or practical need to think about such things. The purpose of war is to win, and many things are just buried under that ultimate purpose.
Vulching and ground attacks, may and probably would have caused unnecessary deaths to unnecessary people in various occasions - from the point of view to us who live outside of war today, I don't think it's anything glorious. But to those who were inside the warring environment, I'd like to think that they had no choice. Who knows whether or not the guy who's been left alive, would kill you the next day?
...
From the gaming point of view, it's pretty much like HO. Also, the purpose of MA is to win by capture. Vulch is a necessity, and an effective way of suppression. There's no 'honor' in it, but come to think of it, there's no place for 'honor' in a warring environment.
Of course, being the target of vulch is frustrating. And sometimes you meet people who have no serious intention of capture - people who deack and attack a field, following vulch scene after vulch scene present in the arena, racking up kills. I myself have met a few whom I can swear that I haven't met in any place any time outside of a vulch - always getting shot down by the same guy in a same situation, those few people who you'll never see outside of a vulch ;)
Using easy planes with lots of ammo, coming in with horde/alt advantage, vulch the crap outta field. They're usually the first to leap into a vulch, and also the first to run away from the scene, leaving all his countrymen behind, when the defenders organize a defense and strike back. Whilst their friends who suffered damage and losses in order to deack the target field is burning up in flames, those guys merrily land their kills, and go looking for another vulch scene! :D
Yup. That's pretty lame. Honorable? Certainly not.
But still, it's his way of flying and fighting, and ultimately, he's known to other members of the community as a lame person. He gets no respect. It's his loss.
Besides, nobody forces someone to up from a vulch field. Upping from a vulch field with hopes to somehow disperse the attacks, means you up despite the risk. Someone who got vulched, doesn't have a say in it. He knew the risks. Yes it's understandable that he might hate the fore-mentioned type of 'vultures', but still, has got no say.
My 2 cents.
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This question should be asked from more pilots than one.. it is pretty interesting one real life pilot wise, how they feel about it.
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In real life when the enemy aircraft on the ground was destroyed it was no longer a threat.
In the game another one spawns immediately.
It's more fun here ;)
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I suppose in the MA it could be considered a bit on the "weak" side to vulch...
...But, on the other hand, it can be really handy for adding up those perk bonuses, or just making you feel better after a couple of hard sorties...
Besides, who can really complain about vulching? When you're sittin' in the tower and see 30 cons circling and strafing the field, DON'T UP!!
That being said - I never go out of my way to fly to a field when so and so knight announces that the "vulch light is on" at such and such field. If it so happens that an even fight over an enemy base turns into a vulch fest, I'm certainly not going to just turn around an go home. I'll take my extra kills and land'em for the nice perk points.
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I have a scanned pilot report from WWII which details a P51 pilot's claim for two kills. They were taking off and he adjusted his attack so they would be airborne getting him 'kill' credit. The first he hit at 450 knots and the other started a climbing left turn which he hit with a 60^ deflection shot doing 400 knots. He got credited with two ME262s in one pass!
I am creating a website with tid-bits like this including some P51 gun camera film showing train straffing and a nice take-out of a ME109. Also I will be posting pictures of my Dad's visit to his buddy's in Chicago two weeks ago where he got a few hops in one of his Bud's P51s (he has two). I will post the URL when I have it done.
Psyco
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Originally posted by Psyco
I have a scanned pilot report from WWII which details a P51 pilot's claim for two kills. They were taking off and he adjusted his attack so they would be airborne getting him 'kill' credit. The first he hit at 450 knots and the other started a climbing left turn which he hit with a 60^ deflection shot doing 400 knots. He got credited with two ME262s in one pass!
Had they been on the ground he wouldn't have been credited them as kills?
See, the game is wrong.
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Originally posted by ccvi
Had they been on the ground he wouldn't have been credited them as kills?
See, the game is wrong.
By mid 1944 the 8th AF was crediting ground kills. Their reasoning was based upon two factors.
1) Strafing airfields was THE most dangerous work a fighter pilot could do.
2) Rewarding pilots with kills encouraged them to do more of the same.
You can imagine the thoughts of Luftwaffe pilots upon seeing dozens of P-51s orbiting above their airfield and they just received orders to scramble....
As to vulching; there's a difference between field supression and gangbanging the lone idiot determined to get airborne. One is essential to field capture, the other a bit wimpy. Of course, there would be no vulching if not for the idiot!
My regards,
Widewing
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most pilots who flew in ww2 would rather kill enemy anyway they could.
America sent p51's to Vulch the new jet fighters...
In here why let pilot up and ho friend or kill troops. In ww2 pilots did alot of wierd things to save friends lives,I've Read many stories of pilots ramming rearends of planes to save friends and allies. ! german pilot was real good at taking tails off.......
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I think vulching is fun, when I'm the vulcher, and a real drag, when I'm the vulchee--unless I make it off the field, and into the fight.
Ya gotta take the bad with the good, imo. Vulch whiners are a lot like HO whiners--both know how to avoid the situation, but continue to get HOed and/or vulched.
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Originally posted by Fishu
This question should be asked from more pilots than one.. it is pretty interesting one real life pilot wise, how they feel about it.
Read Chuck Yeager's autobiography sometime. He had no guilt about vulching German planes as they took off. In fact that's how he scores his first German jet kill.
Ack-Ack
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vulching is only bad if you are the vulchee :)
ain't like there isn't another base to roll from
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Originally posted by Widewing
By mid 1944 the 8th AF was crediting ground kills.
And still none of them could score worth a damn... ;)
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Find it very amusing when people compare anything in a game to real life events historic or otherwise.
On the battle field whether ground,air or sea. Chivalry and Honour went out with King Arthur and White Horses.
Pilot's use to chute chutes let alone vulching anything they could on the ground.
Of course there are instances where honour might be displayed and recorded but they are very few and far between.
...-Gixer
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Excuse typo, of course that's shoot chutes before the typo police point it out.
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"Vulching" is a very easy and effective way of suppressing a base. Beats the heck out of dropping a ton of ord. to take out hangers. If radar for your country is working, the best way to avoid being vulched is to up from the airfield thats about to get whacked. A flyers inability to react in time to an obvious threat is no excuse to call out Vulcher (or cherry picker, learned my lesson the hard way on that one.) As for chute shooting, in AH its just stupid, the longer an nme is in a chute, the longer the time until he becomes a threat again.
In RL, there was a simple rule often adhered to. Over friendly territory, you let him live. Hopefully he is captured and interrogated. Over enemy territory thumbs up on the kill. No sense in letting him up again to try to kill you another day.
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Originally posted by TW9
Once on pbs i was watching a ww2 show inwhich a pilot said shooting planes on the airfield was the most exciting and dangerous thing he did as a pilot considering all the AA fire.. He didnt use the term "vulching" he called it "straffing".. The object of the mission he was in was to destroy the planes b4 they could be manned then upped or used later but im sure if 1 tried to up while he was "in" he would have popped it..
That's how Earl also described the feeling of vulching Germans while they tried to take off. He said the AAA was the only real threat and the pucker factor was way off the scale.
Ack-Ack
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Vulching is fun.
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Vulching is when you stop fighting the enemy, and start fighting your squaddies for the nrs of Kills you can rack up :D
PS: Bailing is good too, please BAIL!
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from the fighter books i have read,,vulching and head ons were the best tatic for usa planes,,,ill have to dig up the book,,but a famous p47 pilots said ,,when attacking a german plane he would go for the head on because his 50 cals would out range the german cannons,, he got most of his kills doing head ons,,and when he was in trouble he would simply nose down and run till he got another chance for a head on or go home instead of dieing
i have heard alot of people complain about head ons, in real life head ons were a valid tactic for the right plane,,,and the best way to shoot down 262s were when they were landing and when they were taking off,,,but do that in main and some people just throw a fit,,even know its a real tactic
aces high is far from real life ww2,,but everyone should be able to atleast use ww2 tactics in this game with out hearing slack about it,,lol,,i guess thats one thing about ww2,,after ya shot down a pilot ,,you didnt have to lisin to him complain about how your not honorable and a dweeb,,hehehe<~~maybe aces high should get rid of main channel?,,hehe
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Originally posted by hyena426 aces high is far from real life ww2,,but everyone should be able to atleast use ww2 tactics in this game with out hearing slack about it,,lol,,i guess thats one thing about ww2,,after ya shot down a pilot ,,you didnt have to lisin to him complain about how your not honorable and a dweeb,,hehehe<~~maybe aces high should get rid of main channel?,,hehe
Any thought of AH without the whining is a pipe dream. Letting it bother you is like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer... counter productive. Relax, grab some popcorn, a beer and enjoy the show =o)
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Originally posted by TW9
Could be the same guy they interviewed on the show.. It was about 262's but they went on to talk about b17s and when they finally got p51 escorts.. The same person i mentioned also talked about an engagement he had w/ a 109 while escorting 17s.. He said they both went vertical and said that basicially the 1st guy to stall was going to lose.. The 109 stalled 1st and he took him out.. They showed footage after of a 109 being shot down by a mustang but i dont know if it was from that actually fight.. He then started talking about strafing the field which now that i think about it was probably 262's that they were after..
Pretty sure it was two different pilots. I believe Earl spent most, if not all his combat time in the MTO and I don't think he ever ran into any Me262s or escorted buffs. I'm pretty sure he mostly ran convoy escort duties (in the P-39N), fighter sweeps (P-38) and ground attack missions (P-47) but not sure. I'll ask him though because it could be possible they are the same guy. Earl did give a couple of interviews in the last couple of years, so like I said it could be but I don't think it is.
Ack-Ack
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TW9!
I have great respect Ted!
Is this your site?
http://www.tedwilliams.com
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Any thought of AH without the whining is a pipe dream. Letting it bother you is like hitting yourself on the head with a hammer... counter productive. Relax, grab some popcorn, a beer and enjoy the show =o)
it dont bother me,,and i wasnt complaining:) i was just making a comment about vultching and ho's and if this was real,,we wouldnt hear a peep out of are victums,,heheh
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My great unncle flew spits and hurris all over the Med. They would strafe anything enemy that moved. Trucks, cars, troops, trains and even planes. The goal was to win the war. Kill or be killed.
Should a person in a vullch situtation NOT do it and let the enemy get up and possibly shoot you down? I can assure you that did not happen in WW2. Strafing airfields was a common practice. DABA airfield for instance was visited almost daily and sometimes by 5 or 6 squadrons at a time to ensure that IF anything got airborne, it was hunted down by gaggles of Enemy Aircraft.
The difference was that strafing a German airfield in 1942 with a hurricane put you in range of every gunner on the property. Not 6 acks like a AH field, there was usually a hailstorm of bullets. My uncle did a run over the centre of Daba and could hear round after round of light MGs hitting the armour seat behind him. That airplane AK-W(213 squad) serial number HL887, was a write off after he RTB'd.
Vulching is part f the game and was part of RL WW2 battles. Maybe some more ack would deter the vulchers a bit.
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wow the things your uncle must have seen
got to give it up to the true vets that had to deal with such death and horror
my family was all in the navy,,,soo all i got is old ship stories<~~i soaked up all there stories,,could right a book allmost about it,,hehehe,,in pearl harbor my uncle was on 2 diffrent ships that got sunk,,,he was on a destroyer,,got blew off the deck,,swam to anothere ship threw the oil and crap,,got on board and that ship was sunk right when he got on board,lol,,talk about bad luck,,finaly he had to swim across the habor to land,,lol
cool to hear a story from a pilot that was there,,or anyone who was there,,,them people had to live threw that crap,,it was war,,,kill or be killed like you said,,glad to hear ya soaked up his stories too,,,need to soak up all them,,somthing like 1,000 ww2 vets dieing every day:( so they wont be around long to tell there stories
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Who cares if it's honorable or not. To cap, some vulching will happen cuz there's always a rambo who wants to save the day. I've been blasted before my prop could do 3 full turns too, it's part of the game when you try to up under fire. I do try to avoid being on the wrong side of vulching.;)
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The other r/l tactic I havnt seen mentioned was when a portion of the bomber escorts were set loose for targets of opportunity. The fighters would try to catch the german interceptors returning to base, knowing they did not have enough fuel to stay in the air long. Sort of the opposite end of a vulch.
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I do believe that vulching is a gallant act of chivalry.
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Vulching!!! Ahhhhh, The proverbial question has been asked since time immemorial in Fighter Ace, Aces High, War Birds, Air Warrior and World War 2 Online.
Real World:
"No war was ever won by dying for your country. Wars are won by making some other son of a squeak die for his country" - Patton as close as I can recall the quote.
By this definition, the idea is to kill the enemy at all costs to keep him from killing you or your buddies. Remember that if he kills you and enough of your buddies he will eventually get your sheep and this is bad.
Consquently in real life a totally different tactic is used to protect against vulching. This tactic is called the high cover squadron. They are sent aloft and just sit there flying donoughts in the sky waiting for any stupid enemy aircraft to attempt an attack. This doesn't happen all the time but it is an accepted principle of real life combat which in all the sims I've played I have never seen. Who among us will be willing to fly high cover over one of our airfields? Maybe 1 or 2 for let's say 3 mins and then they would be off somewhere else in search of glory.
Bottom line. When this game is played as a strategic simulation of real war - then vulching is perfectly acceptable because it can be defended against with the proper amount of dedication and resources. When we're just hacking around without any kind of plan and we take advantage of somebody in a vulnerable position then we're scum. We're having fun but nevertheless we're scum.
von Beeg
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Originally posted by hyena426
from the fighter books i have read,,vulching and head ons were the best tatic for usa planes,,,ill have to dig up the book,,
At 2 conventions I have asked WWII fighter pilots about headons. The initial response from both was a look of dumbfounded shock. One did admit to getting a Zero kill with a headon...it was the only shot he got and he took it :).
As long as there is no "death penalty", headons will be around. But, hey...it's the MA...deal with it :D.
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One of the more spectacular real-life vulches occured during a raid on a Japanese airfield in the Pacific. One of a P-38 pilot's bombs went long and fell into the nearby ocean. The explosion threw up a massive plume of water.
A Zeke that had just taken off flew right into it. The Lightning pilot got credit for the kill, which was witnessed by several others.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
As long as there is no "death penalty", headons will be around. But, hey...it's the MA...deal with it :D.
Well said.(http://1badjedi.freewebspace.com/New%20Smileez/Cool/cheers01.gif)
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Vulching is fun. I figure any pilot trying to up under fire is just going to pull a HO or do a suicidal dash on the town trying to kill troops... so poppin'em makes it all the better.
...as for HO's, they suck, but it's valid. The only bad part about HO's in the game is that 99% of them would never happen if the (either) pilot knew he wouldn't get to replane 2 seconds after he died. Make a sim a game, and you'll get gamers
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Originally posted by TW9
No, its the officiall ted williams site... I added site as sig so if anyone was interested they could get info of the guy i dedicated my callsign to.. :) ..
Nice. :)
Williams, Stan the Man and the Mantle!
My best Baseball memory is skipping school to watch Bob Gibson throw a World Series-record 17 strikeouts in 68. :)
Back to Strafing:
The moment an aircraft is ready to fly It’s kill or be killed. If you have ammo in a flyable aircraft, you’re a target.
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First 262 engaged by a Amercan fighter was made in a fighter from what FG?(last fighter group to join 8AF,last kill of 8AF)
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Originally posted by Corn
First 262 engaged by a Amercan fighter was made in a fighter from what FG?(last fighter group to join 8AF,last kill of 8AF)
479th Fighter Group - Sept. 1944
479th FG was also home to the 8th AF's 17th highest ranking ace, Robin Olds, with 24 victories (9 in the P-38, 8th AF top P-38 ace) and 15 in the P-51D. Zemke was even the C.O. briefly so he could have a chance to chuck the Jug for the Mustang. But then you already knew that Corn
(http://www.hispanicvista.com/assets/479th_shield.jpg)
Ack-Ack
479th Fighter Group - Riddle's Raiders (http://www.479thraiders.com/about/history.html)
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Originally posted by osage
One of the more spectacular real-life vulches occured during a raid on a Japanese airfield in the Pacific. One of a P-38 pilot's bombs went long and fell into the nearby ocean. The explosion threw up a massive plume of water.
A Zeke that had just taken off flew right into it. The Lightning pilot got credit for the kill, which was witnessed by several others.
First kill in 5th AF by a P38.
Nov 24, 1942, over Lae.
P38 pilot: Lt. Robert Faurot.
Coment from CO Gen. George Kenney "I want you to shoot them down, not splash water on them!"
lol
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Honor is for the LW guys....the rest of us enjoy vulching.
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Originally posted by rshubert
I think vulching is fun, when I'm the vulcher, and a real drag, when I'm the vulchee
I suspect the WW II pilots that got vulched thought it was a bummer as well. The difference is the vulchers didn't have to listen to the whining.
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Originally posted by JB42
"In RL, there was a simple rule often adhered to. Over friendly territory, you let him live. Hopefully he is captured and interrogated. Over enemy territory thumbs up on the kill. No sense in letting him up again to try to kill you another day.
(Just wanted to add this about real life. civilians should not think about what military does and why they do it.. Civ's just go by what was told to them or what they read ...
Dont know about that rule. must of missed it in training. Letting the enemy run around in friendly terroritory dont think that would be good idea either, why he is running around gathrering Information then trying to kill who ever he can to get back to his line to report it, we are talking the Germans and Japanese from those days . they were murderous fanatical killers. "that hopefully getting captured would cost lives. Downed pilots had one thing in mind what they were trained to do as we were in the Infantry ESCAPE by all means)
in game
This game is a game no one should really care who shoots who or how.. You get shot down they get shot down , Why cry about it.. the Chute shooting in game i do it when they land at base and stay, to me they are game spys giving info about where gv s are and letting thier country know where everything is at field . shooting chutes in the air ,
this is what i dont understand, from a grown up to boot
I was in P47 had ten rkts and 2 1000 lbrs. I cant fly those type planes in A2A but i can use them for taking a vh and such I took out the hanger and in 3 passes took out a m16 and a flak pnzer in rockets about 2k.. then next thing i know in text some one said i was full of Bull S*** cause they died.. first thing that came to mind.. That we are grown ups and what the hell is that about in text
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And if you get shot down dont type in text excuses a lot of these players will never just go down and reup quietly , they have to tell you why you killed them but it will never be because you did. they will type a bunch of lame reasons just to try to deny you of it.. and to tell thier freinds that it wasnt really you that shot him down. "It was.... you were lucking the only reason you got the kill was casue i did not have any wings and tail and fuel and was bingo on ammo and had Pilot wound. other than that it was just a lucky shot...
i tell when i get killed when it is really stupid. like well i cant fly like a real pilot i just try what i can to get out and away from bullets. . i hate when i do these fancy things to just like crash into ground or hangers or side of mountains.. Or when i come in thinking i am real cool in p38 and find out about the word compression in air craft ..lol or when i up a plain dive bomb onhanger to find out i dropped two fuel tanks and got killed by ack.. Or my favorite one that gets me all the time. taking off forgetting to put gear up .. fly here this bang and look all over for someone shooting at me to look at dash and see yellow lights under the word Gear... games are like this to be fun not taken hard and lose sleep over it..
Ok done
(Typo cops if you see any mistakes dont write and tell the world just fix it for me) typos i could care less about i have 20 years of screwing up on keyboards to earn typo awards
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i like to vulch cause it really pisses people off:D
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
At 2 conventions I have asked WWII fighter pilots about headons. The initial response from both was a look of dumbfounded shock. One did admit to getting a Zero kill with a headon...it was the only shot he got and he took it :).
As long as there is no "death penalty", headons will be around. But, hey...it's the MA...deal with it :D.
Not that I condone maneuvering for the head on shot (I think it's a stupid tactic, low rate of survivability, high rate of damage, etc.) but it was interesting to read that Bong did like to make head on passes against Zeros and Zekes in BnZ slash attacks, while McGuire favored maneuvering for a six kill or snap/deflection shot on a BnZ slash attack.
Ack-Ack
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FIRST SALUTE TO U eARL..MUCH RESPECT..
stupid caps
2nd..i love the vulch...but i always try to let the little guys atleat get there geare in....you know why?? cuase they wil continue to up cause they think they have a chance::D...ooo ilove this game..
btw i only reAD the first posts..
salute
BiGB
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
but i always try to let the little guys atleat get there geare in....you know why?? cuase they wil continue to up cause they think they have a chance:
salute
BiGB
Same here. I prefer to let them get their wheels off the ground before vulching them. One reason is psychological because you're giving them the false security and hope that they might actually be able to take off only to dash it by blowing them out of the sky as soon as they wheels get off the ground. The other reason is because you're more likely to get the kill since once their wheels are up and you blow of a wing or something, at that slow speed they'll just roll over and go BOOM and if you do it while they're still rolling on the runway, there's always the chance they can just stop the plane and exit out, wasting your valuable ammo.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
FIRST SALUTE TO U eARL..MUCH RESPECT..
stupid caps
2nd..i love the vulch...but i always try to let the little guys atleat get there geare in....you know why?? cuase they wil continue to up cause they think they have a chance::D...ooo ilove this game..
btw i only reAD the first posts..
salute
BiGB
Funny how BGBMAW actually sounds human when you hear him on the radio. Phonetic learning only goes so far though.
Amazing how some can "pass" :)
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Vulching, in a nut shell, is a supreme form of entertainment. Not only does it require you to try and conserve ammo to continue the vulching streak, but it allows you to enjoy the thought of ruining some dipsh*ts 9 kill streak he is trying to land at a hot airfield. Then to top it all off you get to listen to the same dipsh*t whine about you not showing chivalry or some bullsh*t like that.
PALEASE!!!!!!!
Bottom line
Vulching is caused by the person who gets vulched. Phh and to the Vulchee (HINT HINT Frenzal) Keep up the whining and let us all watch you make an crybaby bellybutton of yourself. Cripes its a game fellahs....
:D
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Spot on Bhodi! IMO not much tops having a vulchee that responds on channel one. ;)
Westy
(enjoying that 1/48 P-47 and P-38 I bought from you. I wish Armour still made those and that I had more $$ to buy them with ;) )
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.Squelch 1
problem solved :D
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Operation Bodenplatte. The LW sent something like 900 fighters on what was essentially a vulching mission.
Sounds kinda like a MAW raid :)
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Originally posted by Regurge
Operation Bodenplatte. The LW sent something like 900 fighters on what was essentially a vulching mission.
Sounds kinda like a MAW raid :)
Only if they porked the fuel then augered :)
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I have a scanned pilot report from WWII which details a P51 pilot's claim for two kills. They were taking off and he adjusted his attack so they would be airborne getting him 'kill' credit. The first he hit at 450 knots and the other started a climbing left turn which he hit with a 60^ deflection shot doing 400 knots. He got credited with two ME262s in one pass!
That would have been Urban "Ben" Drew. Both kills took a total of 31 seconds, but Drew wasn't given credit for the kills until 1983 after they found a Luftwaffe pilot that was on the ground that day and witnessed the event.
Several pilots have had to wait 40-50 years after the fact to get credit for kills. There was as recent as a couple of years ago of a WWII U.S. pilot that got credit for a kill that made him an ace.
:eek:
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Originally posted by BGBMAW
FIRST SALUTE TO U eARL..MUCH RESPECT..
stupid caps
2nd..i love the vulch...but i always try to let the little guys atleat get there geare in....you know why?? cuase they wil continue to up cause they think they have a chance::D...ooo ilove this game..
btw i only reAD the first posts..
salute
BiGB
Ooohhh...that's EVIL. I love it.
:D
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Only question I have is who is dummer, the vulchee or the vulcher that dives in for a single kill knowing the aa will kill him.
its sooo much more fun killing the whinner vulchee.
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Originally posted by bfreek
Only question I have is who is dummer, the vulchee or the vulcher that dives in for a single kill knowing the aa will kill him.
its sooo much more fun killing the whinner vulchee.
That's why it's recommended to vulch when acks are down.
Ack-Ack
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My thoughts on vulching...
You need to suppress the field in order to capture it and there is unlimited spawning from the fields, therefore vulching is a necessity. Also if you are stupid enough to try and takeoff with multiple enemy aircraft circling the base, you deserve to get vulched.
Answer, take off from the next closest base and nail those vulching bastards!:D
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one reason i dont hardly bother with vulching anymore is that i used to kill all the aa then vulch, but i got tired of doing the dirty work while all them spits and la7s just hovered around out of danger till the aa was downed.
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Vulching rules! :aok
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Vulching rules! :aok
...and bumping dusty old threads is weak.... :lol
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as i have said before shoot the pilot or the plane on the ground or ho in the air.he will do the same to u.it's kill or be killed,i'm sure a lot of pilots in wwII felt bad for it.but they still did it.this here is just a game,but the principals should be the same.if u don't like getting ho'ed or vulched get lost,change arena's or vehicles.i mostley drive panzers,and i don't like getting spawn camped,but it happens.if i don't like it i change arena's or maps.so quit your f-----king whining :furious
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Read Chuck Yeager's autobiography sometime. He had no guilt about vulching German planes as they took off. In fact that's how he scores his first German jet kill.
Ack-Ack
any idea where i could get it? id rather not search the internet head to toe, but will if i can find one for a decent price.
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This is a cartoon video game- not real life, no comparison at all.
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Ack Ack, I met Earl at the table discussion at Jordi's AW con in Indy 99 or 2000 cant remember with Bud Anderson and a few others, and later read many of his posts on Bigweek, admittedly lurking he he. He is a genuine Good Guy and knows his stuff.
As for vulcthing, I vultch, look at my "sheet" it isn't about kills for me its about suppressing the base, if it looks like were going to try and take it. I kill the ack then vultch, the less enemy planes in the air the better period in game as was in real life.
The irritating part is seeing the silk scarf boys waiting for someone else to deack the base and then commence to vultch preserving their precious "sheet". If it doesn't look like a base capture attempt I hover, lettem get up then go for the good fight.
Hehe vultch isn't in the spell checker
oh well my 2 cents
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any idea where i could get it? id rather not search the internet head to toe, but will if i can find one for a decent price.
Its called Yeager, and you could probably find it at a local library, or at Half-price Books/comparable used bookstore.
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If the field is completely "surpressed", the the fight is over and no more targets for anyone, except lone idiots that other idiots are tripping over each other to get while being killed by ack.
However, if you at least let them get their gear up, that encourages them to believe they have a chance and they will keep upping.
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any idea where i could get it? id rather not search the internet head to toe, but will if i can find one for a decent price.
Yeager - An Autobiography (http://www.amazon.com/Yeager-Autobiography-Chuck/dp/0553256742/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232152717&sr=8-1)
ack-ack
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...and bumping dusty old threads is weak.... :lol
LOL! Was kind of surprised to see a thread I made almost 6 years ago show up in the forums.
ack-ack
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Ack Ack, I met Earl at the table discussion at Jordi's AW con in Indy 99 or 2000 cant remember with Bud Anderson and a few others, and later read many of his posts on Bigweek, admittedly lurking he he. He is a genuine Good Guy and knows his stuff.
Just last night after fighting Anaxogras in his P-39, we started talking about Earl and got to wondering if he is still with us or passed on. In either case, I am glad that I got to know him and you're right, he was a good guy and really did know his stuff and it didn't hurt that he flew the P-38G ^__^
ack-ack
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As to vulching; there's a difference between field supression and gangbanging the lone idiot determined to get airborne. One is essential to field capture, the other a bit wimpy. Of course, there would be no vulching if not for the idiot!
Irl the idiot would be no more, his one chance spent. In this game the idiot aspires to be a even bigger idiot by spawning again and again and again.
Please allow me to suggest a new way to get ranked.
Idiot = guy who up from a capped field and get shot down.
lvl 2 idiot = guy who up two times in a row to get shot down
lvl 3 idiot = guy who up three times in a row to get shot down
lvl 4 idiot = ... / you get the idea yet ?
I figure some people just take a little longer to learn. ;)
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I am a level 48 idiot.
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Yeah man, eventually I win and then kitteh can haz C47burger.
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all time best is to park a tank at theend of the strip an pop em-tends to get them quite ill :D did that once at a field not under attack an caught a 262 starting to lift an give him a 75mm round in the face-guy was really po'ed
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all time best is to park a tank at theend of the strip an pop em-tends to get them quite ill :D did that once at a field not under attack an caught a 262 starting to lift an give him a 75mm round in the face-guy was really po'ed
Someone should ask HiTech about his days in AW driving a T-34 to bases and doing the same thing.
ack-ack
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Anvil, the first conference champ in AWI, "There is no honorable way to kill a con. You just do it and move on". I've quoted this person many times. I find this so true. I think Earl said it best though.