Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: miko2d on June 21, 2003, 08:43:12 AM
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Aleksandr Zaporozhsky?
in November, 2001, he was enticed to revisit his homeland, on stepping foot in which he was whisked off, tried, and sentenced to 18 years in prison.
True, Zaporozhsky spied against Moscow, but when he did that, he was spying against a Soviet regime ultimately repudiated by the Russian people. It was ten years between the time the Russians shook off Communism and the time the Russian secret police got around to luring Zaporozhsky back to Russia. Why should they be mad at a citizen who turned against the regime finally rejected by everybody, including the Soviet president?
Any idea what's going on?
miko
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http://www.fsb.ru/smi/ufsb/2003/030317-4.html
It's an official comment from FSB.
I didn't know about this traitor before...
Hmmm. Hard to find any information about this case. BTW, "democratic" press usually starts "human rights" hype about any spy, terrorist or oligarch, but I didn't hear anything about this man. Maybe even for that sold-out "free press" it's too obvious that he's a traitor?... I listen to "Echo of Moscow" radio every day, but they didn't even mention it.
BTW, where did you take that quote? As usuall, it contains obvious lies. :( That colonel retired in 1997, 6 years after USSR felt apart. There is a certain tendency in a coverage of Russian news :(
http://chekist.ru/news/index.php?id=&page=4
Московский окружной военный суд в среду приговорил к 18 годам лишения свободы с отбыванием наказания в колонии строгого режима бывшего сотрудника Службы внешней разведки России Александра Запорожского. Он был признан виновным в государственной измене в форме выдачи гостайны - статья 275 УК РФ - в пользу США, передает РИА "Новости". По данным следственного управления ФСБ РФ, расследовавшего дело, он в течение пяти лет передавал представителям спецслужб США секретную информацию о деятельности российских разведорганов и их кадровом составе. По мнению следствия, действия полковника нанесли существенный ущерб внешней безопасности России. 52-летний Запорожский до 1997 года являлся заместителем начальника первого отдела Управления контрразведки Службы внешней разведки России. С 1997 года, уволившись в запас, он работал в американской компании и проживал в штате Мэриленд США. Он был арестован в 2001 году в Москве. С тех пор он находится под стражей в следственном изоляторе "Лефортово". Там же с 13 марта проходят в закрытом режиме выездные заседания Московского окружного военного суда (МОВС), сообщает ИТАР-ТАСС.
Other lie is that more then 70% of Russians miss Soviet Union, and think that USSR is their Motherland. Any military crime against USSR is crime against Russia. Even if the bastard spied against USSR he could expect the same treatment. BTW, many traitors that were amnested by Yeltsin in the time of "democratic circus" of early 90s are under investigation again, like Oleg Kalugin.
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Sorry forgot to translate. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison for state treason and reporting of state secrets to the US.
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Only 18 years?
I thought they shot people for that ****.
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Originally posted by Animal
Only 18 years?
I thought they shot people for that ****.
Really? Do they shoot people for this things in US?
BTW, I have read a great book about Rosenbergs recently, written by a KGB officer who was Julius's "contact" in 44-46. The whole case was a fake :(
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Ahh I see. Rosenberg's KGB handler said he wasn't a spy. Well that certainly clarifies things.
Hooligan
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See!
I told ya!
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Originally posted by Hooligan
Ahh I see. Rosenberg's KGB handler said he wasn't a spy. Well that certainly clarifies things.
Hooligan
Alexander Feklisov said that the only information Rosenberg provided was about radar technology and mostly proximity shells.
The only information about nuclear project was the sketch drawing from his wife's brother, Greenglass, and it was only a a scheme of "detonation lenses", that were known for several years already, and used in HEAT (cumulative) shells to straighten the detonation wave. Julius never even saw that sketch, it was delivered through another agent...
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Boroda is right, the USSR never actually spied on the USA... All those convicted of spying were innocent! :rolleyes:
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....ONLY..'radar technology and mostly proximity shells. '......HAHAHA.....ONLY
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Originally posted by john9001
....ONLY..'radar technology and mostly proximity shells. '......HAHAHA.....ONLY
The main reason to sentence Julius and obviously innocent Ethel to death was that they gave "nuclear secrets" to Soviets, that they were absolutely unable to do...
Try to read something about that tragic story.
Many Soviet intelligence officers admitted that Rosenbergs were indeed working for USSR, but Service of External Intelligence officials never made any comments about it.
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Thank god that Boroda can finally bring the truth of the matter to light.
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Originally posted by SOB
Thank god that Boroda can finally bring the truth of the matter to light.
I just "sell it for the same price I bought it".
Try to find some literature about Rosenbergs case, and, if possible, both from "right" and "left" sides.
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bloody commies. anybody who hurt the USSR amd helped the US is a hero IMO, regardless of their reasons.
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Rosenbergs brother-in-law was greenglass, a army sgt who worked at los alamos and passed on bomb secrets to Rosenbergs russian contact mr gold.
fuches gave the russians the theory of the bomb , greenglass (with help of the Rosenbergs) gave the plans.
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Theres some longer story in russian answering miko's question here : http://www.mk.ru/numbers/374/article12751.htm I'm sure A. Hinshtein made up half of that to make it more entertaining for readers. I think it perfectly makes sense - he was not protesting against Soviet "regime". He inflicted damage to the intelligence/security of Russia/USSR. He had chance but was not smart enough to stop playing this game.
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Originally posted by Boroda
The main reason to sentence Julius and obviously innocent Ethel to death was that they gave "nuclear secrets" to Soviets, that they were absolutely unable to do...
Try to read something about that tragic story.
Many Soviet intelligence officers admitted that Rosenbergs were indeed working for USSR, but Service of External Intelligence officials never made any comments about it.
Nothing tragic about it. They were spies for the Communists, and knew the consequences of their actions if they were caught. Even "innocent" Ethel was aware of this.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Nothing tragic about it. They were spies for the Communists, and knew the consequences of their actions if they were caught. Even "innocent" Ethel was aware of this.
exactly
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Nothing tragic about it. They were spies for the Communists, and knew the consequences of their actions if they were caught. Even "innocent" Ethel was aware of this.
OK, killing innocent women is fine for Western "democracies"...
OMG. I want to go back to good old USSR :(
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Originally posted by Boroda
OK, killing innocent women is fine for Western "democracies"...
OMG. I want to go back to good old USSR :(
No you don't, you can't pirate software here.
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Originally posted by Martlet
No you don't, you can't pirate software here.
Forgive me my poor knowledge of English, but I "don't" what? Want to go back to good old USSR?!
To Miko and SSHH:
Бля, ну и мудак... Просто мичуринский сорт олигофрена. Их таких специально выводят? Он же круче образцового строителя коммунизма... Им "разум" дал стальные руки-крюки, и вместо сердца - пламенный пиздец...
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Boroda your sensitivity and outrage to the execution of the communist traitor Rosenbergs is indeeed deeply touching. I think I'll bring it up from now on every time you praise Stalin as you are so fond of doing - just to remind everyone of what a two faced lying brainwashed sack of horsemanure you are.
Have a nice day comrade... And go f u c k yourself!
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Originally posted by Martlet
No you don't, you can't pirate software here.
what are you speaking about ? :confused:
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OK, I see that there is no way to get an idea about that case. Russian intelligence claims that he was an employee in good standing untill 1997 and guilty of betraying Hanssen. Of course russian intelligence was known to stretch the truth no worse than western press.
Anyway, Boroda, apparently you have no idea what "freedom" means and are still thinking with communist cliches - like most americans, especially both ruling parties, so you have a good company here - if you imply that sold-out press cannot be free.
The whole point of freedom is being able to sell your property or services to whomever you want at whatever price you want. If you can sell out, you are free. If you cannot sell out - need someone's permission, it means you are not free. Which we are not in many respects but you can still open a newspaper here and print whatever you want.
Anyway, that's a philosophical question.
miko
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If he's a rat who betrayed Hanssen - I really think he should get at least twice as much as what Hanssen was sentenced to...
Miko, here's the book i mentioned is here:
http://www1.ozon.ru/?context=detail&id=98726
Ты зря думаешь что я такой большой поклонник коммунистов. Просто я смотрю на местную публику, которая в большинстве своём считает что серп и молот это национальное русское оружие, и получаю удовольствие от их реакции :) Заповедник дремучего идиотизма :) Особенно радует отношение к русскому Фрихосту (ввв.вбфри.нет). Мы оказывается ворьё и подонки потому что делаем что-то бесплатно.
А что до свободы - я с тобой полностью согласен, только вот декларируемая "свобода слова" на мой взгляд не более чем химера, один из лозгунов сродни правам, заявленным в советской конституции... От дем-эйфории начала 90х я избавился, прочувствовав перемены на собственной шкурке. Свобода и демократия - это конечно заебись, и у меня, в мои 30 лет есть куча возможностей, но согласись, это совсем не то что нам обещали с трибун в 87-91. И никакая "свобода слова" не греет ежели жрать нечего, как большинству пожилых людей в провинции.
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Just reminded me of a song...
Don't turn around, woh oh ohhhhh. Der Commisar's in town, woh oh ohhhhhhh.
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Originally posted by GrimCO
Just reminded me of a song...
Don't turn around, woh oh ohhhhh. Der Commisar's in town, woh oh ohhhhhhh.
LMFAO
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Boroda,
I do not understand your attachment to Hanssen and your wish to have him avenged. After all, Hanssen commited his betrayal only because of financial considerations rather than idealistic ones. He knew all the time that he would not get executed if his treason get discovered while many of his victims were executed.
Also, there is really a distinction between people having freedom to act in a way that you would like them to but not doing so and them not having freedom to act at all.
Our mainstream press may be biased and corrupt but it is certainly free - probably the most free segment of this increasingly oppressed societty. They print what they want or rather what the people to whom they sell themselves - subscribers, advertisers and owners - want them to print. They are not dominated by the government or controled by the government though they can certainly be influenced by the government one way or another.
Also, you should stop using words "freedom" and "democracy" in one sentence (unless you want to exibit your ignorance). They have nothing to do with each other. Democracy is just the form of government.
The western concept of individual freedom appeared and flourished under limited monarchy form of government and democracies are usually historically associated with extinguising of freedom rather than promoting it.
I do not think you are a communist, just that you are still thinking in Marxist categories. If you really want answers to the questions you pose in your post, I suggest you read Hayek and Mises. It will not help you set tings straight onj a global scale but at least you will get clear understanding what is going on in both out countries and why and where it will end.
miko
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Miko, "freedom and democracy" is just a cliche used by people infected with "дем-шиза" (it's a quite common diagnosys here now). I use it as an ironic expression, or at least try to ;)
As for free press - any press is sold out, except for marginals like "Limonka" that I mentioned in another thread. There can be no freedom when media is sponsored by certain social-political-financial groups. Even "inner censorship" affects "freedom". At least I believe so.
About Hanssen - I have read a book about him recently, and I was surprised that his motivation was very strange and can't be understood without serious medical analysys... Anyway, when I see people here cheering the execution of Rosenbergs - I hope I can make them understand that I can feel the same about traitors of my country.
Кстати, довольно интересно как ты понимаешь то что я пишу по русски :) Налицо некоторое взаимонедопонимание, я тоже чувствую что вкладываю в твои посты на английском несколько неправильный смысл...
Хотел еще поиздеваться над этим тренажёром лоботомиста-недоучки, который у тебя в игноре, но пожалуй стоит пощадить его извилину... Вера в политику партии прямо как у меня лет в тринадцать, но я хоть такой хуйни не порол...